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Pending / [Discussion] CTF weapon layouts are really outdated
« on: November 07, 2020, 04:38:44 PM »
Hi I’ve been trying and failing thanks to ccbm/hale to get more people into Vanilla after the weapon and time-to-kill updates so let’s talk about CTF
Originally I was just going to put in a post saying something like “hey there’s only 2 maps with MM9 weapons and 1 map with a v6 weapon what the fuck you guys are mad lazy
” but I think turning it into a discussion on which new weapons to bring forward, rather than just adding them for the sake of it, would be more healthy for the game mode’s balance.
Remember that swapping out any sort of weapon or adjusting balance for these maps has what I’d define as a three-pronged effect on the gameplay:
- Changes how easy it is to catch someone running with a flag (buffs to this are generally good if not obnoxiously overtuned eg homing weapons)
- Changes how easy it is to run with the flag and get past people trying to get in your way (also a good thing, I would think)
- Changes how easy it is to defend your flag, or defend someone holding the other team’s flag (buffs to this are generally bad? Or at least when I played stalling was an issue).
The main issue is that, likely only because of the timeframe in which they were made, dang near all of these maps rely HEAVILY on v1 weapons and v1 weapons alone. Whilst they have been updated with MM7, 8 and in some cases &B weapons they are far less prevalent, and don’t go far beyond adding Water Balloon to every map where it’ll fit. This tilts the balance more in favour of the last point on the list, solely because so many v1 weapons are extremely slow travelling. For example, if you look at the totals for long range weapons, the most prolific options are Gemini Laser (9/25 maps) at an incredible 22 speed, Thunder Beam (8/25 maps) at 30 speed and Gyro Attack (8/25 maps) which is 35 speed and also is prone to splitting in two. By contrast, Laser Trident only shows up on a single map and quite possibly the smallest one on offer, MMCTF25.
I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion to say that slower weapons favour defensive play by design, it’s much easier to hold a corridor with a bunch of lingering rippers or bouncing lasers than a weapon that requires precise aim and face to face confrontation. Likewise it’s much harder to catch someone on the run when your lightning bolts barely travel any faster than your player character does, and obviously don’t adjust their trajectory beyond the point at which you first fired them.
Here’s the totals for each type of weapon, there might be some inaccuracies if I just straight up didn’t spot a weapon but I tried my best lol
LONG RANGE WEAPONS
RAPID FIRE WEAPONS
CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS
POWER WEAPONS
AREA WEAPONS
SHIELD WEAPONS
ITEMS
Anyway please let me know what newer weapons you think would be good to bring into CTF. Maybe drop into a CTF or FOOTBAWL server sometime
Originally I was just going to put in a post saying something like “hey there’s only 2 maps with MM9 weapons and 1 map with a v6 weapon what the fuck you guys are mad lazy
” but I think turning it into a discussion on which new weapons to bring forward, rather than just adding them for the sake of it, would be more healthy for the game mode’s balance. Remember that swapping out any sort of weapon or adjusting balance for these maps has what I’d define as a three-pronged effect on the gameplay:
- Changes how easy it is to catch someone running with a flag (buffs to this are generally good if not obnoxiously overtuned eg homing weapons)
- Changes how easy it is to run with the flag and get past people trying to get in your way (also a good thing, I would think)
- Changes how easy it is to defend your flag, or defend someone holding the other team’s flag (buffs to this are generally bad? Or at least when I played stalling was an issue).
The main issue is that, likely only because of the timeframe in which they were made, dang near all of these maps rely HEAVILY on v1 weapons and v1 weapons alone. Whilst they have been updated with MM7, 8 and in some cases &B weapons they are far less prevalent, and don’t go far beyond adding Water Balloon to every map where it’ll fit. This tilts the balance more in favour of the last point on the list, solely because so many v1 weapons are extremely slow travelling. For example, if you look at the totals for long range weapons, the most prolific options are Gemini Laser (9/25 maps) at an incredible 22 speed, Thunder Beam (8/25 maps) at 30 speed and Gyro Attack (8/25 maps) which is 35 speed and also is prone to splitting in two. By contrast, Laser Trident only shows up on a single map and quite possibly the smallest one on offer, MMCTF25.
I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion to say that slower weapons favour defensive play by design, it’s much easier to hold a corridor with a bunch of lingering rippers or bouncing lasers than a weapon that requires precise aim and face to face confrontation. Likewise it’s much harder to catch someone on the run when your lightning bolts barely travel any faster than your player character does, and obviously don’t adjust their trajectory beyond the point at which you first fired them.
Here’s the totals for each type of weapon, there might be some inaccuracies if I just straight up didn’t spot a weapon but I tried my best lol
LONG RANGE WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
RAPID FIRE WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
CLOSE RANGE WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
POWER WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
AREA WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
SHIELD WEAPONS
(click to show/hide)
ITEMS
(click to show/hide)
Anyway please let me know what newer weapons you think would be good to bring into CTF. Maybe drop into a CTF or FOOTBAWL server sometime
Crypt Cloak
Photon Flare
Pulse Stopper
Virus Outbreak
Phantom Fuse
Shock Gauntlet
Circuit Breaker
Charade Clone
