EXPERIMENT: Tired of people playing as Quick Man in CTF?

[Mr. Wint]

Concerning this mod, isn't it better to simply remove the speed classes in CTF ? Some kind of code that'll say "If Game type is CTF, then change every player's classes to RANDOM if they chose Quick Man or Slash Man"...
Not only that it has been said many times, that some people want to master an unique class, others simply can't handle every classes...
why forcing them to have a random class ? If people want a random class, the option's there.

No one's forcing any server host to run this WAD.  It's the host's responsibility to decide how s/he wants to handle this sort of problem.  I'm just providing a possible solution.  Also, this mod is not just aimed at CTF, it's applicable to any game mode.  I just used the CTF thing as an example.

It's not just the speed classes that are problems though. Flying classes, tanks[woodman mostly], and anyone with a dash can be problematic.

Also, I threw the mod up on Best-Ever's wad hosting when you mentioned hosting it in "one of the popular WAD locations." Hope you don't mind!

Fine with it this time, but now that I know how to upload the WADs myself, I'd prefer to handle my own WADs in the future.  Thank you, though!

[fortegigasgospel]

Though it is also possible for the same idea that KY classes used. A custom class for whoever has the flag/terminator.
Though with YD classes having most everyone atm I can't think of who would make for a good flag holder.
Though there is an idea I have for that. This isn't the place to put it though.

[Beed28]

BTW, Wint, ConsoleCommand() is being removed due to idiots abusing it. You might want to file a ticket to let the Zandronum team know about this particular use case.

Uh oh. I just remembered that Chaos Generator uses ConsoleCommand() to force fall damage on for one of the effects. Can you inform them that as well?

[Mr. Wint]

I tested this mod more extensively, and it turns out that it only worked on local games.  So I went ahead and fixed that bug.  Sorry about that.

[The Killer Nacho]

Then why simply not disabling them in CTF ? It's more efficient than "reduce the luck of getting them"

Well, when you look at the insane number of classes that have a notable edge in CTF (as Korby mentioned), wouldn't it limit the variety that defines Classes? I mean, aren't vast choices and play-styles the whole idea behind Classes? Nonetheless, I totally agree with your perspective on luck and there doesn't appear to be a coherent solution. Not only could a Quickman fall in the hands of a skilled player as previously mentioned, but the other team would have nothing to fight back with. Can anyone disprove the idea that luck and variety are mutually exclusive?

[tsukiyomaru0]

The problem with "non-random" is just that some people abuse of a class's advantage (See, for example, Saxton Fail Classes for examples of Gyroabuse, Quickabuse, Shadeabuse and others), which makes the game really unfair to the other side (in SH case, the hale)

[The Killer Nacho]

Oh, believe me, I've long since given up on Saxton Hale Classes and hate it to no end (despite it being painfully popular). Most people, however probably play Classes for two reasons:

1. The advantage abuse you mentioned.

2. The variety you get (adding a bunch of variables for a fresh kind of game each time).

I know how frustrating it is to have Quickmen, Gyromen, and Shadowmen on the Hale like Auto on a spare bolt, but I'm afraid that without either of these motives to play, people might be scared off of Classes forever, which would be quite sad considering how much potential it has. Many new players especially in this community tend to play one round and judge the entire game on it. If these new players don't like vanilla, their first alternative is often Classes. I know several people that stayed on MM8BDM just because of "that amazing feeling when you get when you first play as Quickman and blast the daylights out of somebody."

[Balrog]

>forcerandom means less variety
>people who play classes just for abuse not playing classes is bad
>implying that having new players' first impression of MM8BDM being a 20-minute ClassesSH stallfest is a good thing

Not sure what the hell you're talking about here. Everyone using a random classes having less "variety" than everyone using about 5 different classes goes against basic mathematics. Also, as both myself and others argued vociferously in the latest "zomg no new pplz" thread, people playing Classes and only Classes so they can abuse cheap tactics is probably having a negative effect on the community. As for your third point, I would normally construct some form of counterargument, but your phrasing and reasoning is so baffling that right now all I can say is   wat.

I'll just be... elsewhere now.

[Mr. Wint]

For some reason, Force Random seems to be broken.  I've encountered two main problems with it;

- It can detect whether or not your class is random, and then kill you, but it doesn't change it for you.  This is a problem in any game that respawns people instantly (because then you'll just die and die and etc, etc.)
- It winds up kicking everybody because it floods the server with changing player info.

God damn, ACS's execution environment is weird.  Any tips on this?

[Balrog]

Not really. Your options are:
1. wait for sv_forcerandom to hopefully become a thing
2. ragequit and start your own indie development house like Ijon Tichy did

[tsukiyomaru0]

For some reason, Force Random seems to be broken.  I've encountered two main problems with it;

- It can detect whether or not your class is random, and then kill you, but it doesn't change it for you.  This is a problem in any game that respawns people instantly (because then you'll just die and die and etc, etc.)
- It winds up kicking everybody because it floods the server with changing player info.

God damn, ACS's execution environment is weird.  Any tips on this?

Rather than having it change player info, have it do this:
On Spawn/Respawn, check what is playerinfo_class (or something). If it is non-random, constantly kill that player OR force spectate.. The script should not loop, so it checks only ONCE within every spawn or respawn

[Balrog]

^ Or you could do that. Wow, I'm so inured to disgusting hacks in Zandronum that I didn't even think of something that simple.

[Mr. Wint]

Not really. Your options are:
2. ragequit and start your own indie development house like Ijon Tichy did

Believe it or not, that's exactly what I'm doing.  Just released my first game, too.

Rather than having it change player info, have it do this:
On Spawn/Respawn, check what is playerinfo_class (or something). If it is non-random, constantly kill that player OR force spectate.. The script should not loop, so it checks only ONCE within every spawn or respawn

I had considered that, but if possible I would prefer to kill the player and set him on random automatically.  I may just have to concede to that workaround, though.

[tsukiyomaru0]

Rather than having it change player info, have it do this:
On Spawn/Respawn, check what is playerinfo_class (or something). If it is non-random, constantly kill that player OR force spectate.. The script should not loop, so it checks only ONCE within every spawn or respawn

I had considered that, but if possible I would prefer to kill the player and set him on random automatically.  I may just have to concede to that workaround, though.

That can work. However, don't forget they will be dumping ConsoleCommand because "lol, hax mods"

[Mr. Wint]

I'm not using consoleCommand("kill"), I'm just using good old-fashioned scripting and TIDs for that.