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Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch => Projects & Creative => Topic started by: SickSadWorld on October 12, 2011, 05:23:13 PM

Title: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on October 12, 2011, 05:23:13 PM
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i248/Cowman_bucket/otbr.png) (http://cutstuff.net/mm8bdm/?p=134)

BOT APOCALYPSE

After many months of development, here is the long awaited game mode originally thought up and hosted by SaviorSword and T's Inventions. The goal is to automate what they had done manually. There's probably some issues, but here's the release of my original concept and game mode implementation. Some maps might have issues.

http://doom.dogsoft.net/download.php?f= ... oc-v2c.zip (http://doom.dogsoft.net/download.php?f=Unsorted%20Uploads/botapoc-v2c.zip) | File Size: 24.56 KB
http://www.mediafire.com/?62vbwy0jk435vz3 | Mediafire mirror

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What is it?
Bot Apocalypse is a Tactical Team Mode where a team of human controlled players battle it out against a team of bots lead by one human leader. The last man standing's team wins!


If you want to host this yourself simply load the wad as TLMS and set a win limit. You should probably set

Code: [Select]
sv_lmscountdowntime 7
as a minimum. The default is 10.

Recommended options to enable but not required
-Chasecam
-Crouching
-Drop weapons
-Randomize maps


v2c changes
-Renumbering of scripts for compatibility with Qbox mode
-Ballade army replaces Roll army
-Adds in the random bot weapon switching AI from Qbox mode when hosted as standalone (AI is improved)
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Korby on October 12, 2011, 08:30:54 PM
I love this mode to death. That is all.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Hallan Parva on October 12, 2011, 08:42:51 PM
So, there's a way to randomly force players to change teams? Awesome. *downloading*
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: OZX on October 12, 2011, 11:56:34 PM
This shouldn't be in the wip.this should be in projects.

BTW, looks kick-ass. :cool:  


*downloads*
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Hallan Parva on October 13, 2011, 08:43:28 PM
I have a question. What's the difference between your version and Messatsu's version?
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on October 13, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"
I have a question. What's the difference between your version and Messatsu's version?

My version is an attempt to automate what Saviorsword and T's Inventions do when they host this mode manually. I attempted to preserve the tactical element as closely as possible and focused on automating what I saw the mode as instead of putting my own interpretation into it.

Messatsu's version goes a step further and adds in what he believes are enhancements to the mode; things like W-Tanks, Rage runes, and so on were added in consult with Saviorsword. I respect his autonomy and provide tips, hints, code, and encouragement to help him realize his goal. His version is based on an old version of mine that he took and modified. He further used my code base from more recent versions to enhance what he had developed. As such you'll see code that is the same between the two. Any code that you see in his version that came from mine is used with permission. I respect his autonomy to maintain a separate mode with enhancements similar to Rage. I have involved him in my development chat and I'm excited that he is inspired enough to take the mode in a different direction than I intend to. Think of this version as the "classic" or "basic" version.

Even though I made it first, I hit a glass ceiling with how ACS interacts with Skulltag internally. If it wasn't for Messatsu coming along and reviving the mode with his own ideas I wouldn't have had the motivation to press forward. I wanted to make sure people realized I made this first, but I also respect the right to want to move forward because it's not right for me to make something and then just claim total ownership and never do anything with it.

My feeling is that there's no good reason that we both can't maintain a version of this mode. With most of my contributions, this stuff is mostly free to use by anyone for any reason as long as you give some credit where it is due. Messatsu does a great job at that, and you'll see I have no problem with him using any part of my code and/ or modifying it in any way.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Batton on October 24, 2011, 12:09:53 AM
For some strange reason there's 2 of these modes called the same thing?

Well I tried them both and I definitely like this one more.

I played this mode a few times on a server with CoolDude T's Inventions and Unfaded SaviorSword and I love it, but the other one doesn't seem to be the mode I remember like this one is. Good job!
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on November 15, 2011, 04:40:35 AM
Bumped for version 2b release.

Major improvements! Happy fragging!
Title: Thank god we have SSW to cut down the chaos.
Post by: Tesseractal on November 15, 2011, 07:20:36 AM
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"
I have a question. What's the difference between your version and Messatsu's version?
Here's the overarching concept I see as the difference. In SSW's mod (which he accurately describes), whether or not you win or not really comes down to your own tactics and skill at taking care of bots. There's no outside help in the form of items or HP buffs that you see in Messatsu's mode, with the exception of a single W-tank - this was mainly given to offset the ammo nerfs brought by V2C. But is that totally a bad thing? In this mode you won't get randomly killed by someone else using Exit Unit, you won't get killed because someone spawned Eddie and give Mirror Buster to a bot, and best of all - you won't get destroyed by meteorite death for trying to win. You should have *much* more freedom in this mode than you do in Savior's.

On a coding level, the scripts work in noticeably different ways. The bot leader is chosen about 4 seconds after the round starts (instead of before). However, it does not fail. (I cannot state that from my experience about Messatsu's) The condensed ACS generally will lead to less lag / packet failure during bot adding phases at the beginning of matches, as well. In fact, this can just as easily be called "Concise Bot Apoc" as well as Classic.

My main point I'd bring up for the next version is to axe Junk Shield from the rotation. If it's not replaced by another weapon by default, I think adding Tango here would be within reason - it doesn't kill allies (e.g. exit unit, eddie) and isn't luck based - you'd be able to drop it in key places to get kills.

What I can see this mode possibly doing is giving a "Fright" item to the leader, so that he can effectively move "shepherd" bots around. That's an example of something I think would benefit players who are tactical - NOT players who want to Rambo. The bot leader's HP is fixed in this version - but in the classic mode, that never stopped me from stalking the unwitting team of humans.  :p
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: mrjnumber1 on November 15, 2011, 10:16:15 AM
there is a difference between a tactic and sitting in a corner and shooting the megabuster into a crowd of bots for 20 minutes...
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Shade Guy on November 15, 2011, 10:56:11 AM
Well, knowing Sick, he'll probably make some bot scripts to stop bots from being dumbasses and standing still while they get shot at with a Mega Buster.

Hell, he's probably made one already in secret.
Title: This mode IS Bot Apocalypse. Mess's is like the movie adapta
Post by: Tesseractal on November 16, 2011, 04:01:28 AM
Quote from: "mrjnumber1"
there is a difference between a tactic and sitting in a corner and shooting the megabuster into a crowd of bots for 20 minutes...
Mega buster camp is central to the game mode itself. Except that there are ways to get around that. Line up two napalm bombs on a stuck bot; guaranteed KO. The idea is that you can overcome the bots with the human team by working together. That element is lost in Messatsu's version. Who cares about teamwork when you get free weapons and you can item-1 / telefrag people on the start?

You're not going to convince me that mega buster camp doesn't happen in Messatsu's version. Maybe less, but I'd say the things added are more detrimental to a good strategist in the long run.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: KillerChair on November 17, 2011, 11:14:06 PM
Nice having a mod that does this stuff manually :D
I like to see a mod using non-classes weapons again.
Title: Re: This mode IS Bot Apocalypse. Mess's is like the movie ad
Post by: Messatsu on November 18, 2011, 12:54:33 AM
Quote from: "Ice-IX"
You're not going to convince me that mega buster camp doesn't happen in Messatsu's version. Maybe less, but I'd say the things added are more detrimental to a good strategist in the long run.
Buster camping is the name of the game.  Freaking bots are so insanely accurate.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: FCx on November 18, 2011, 01:39:30 AM
the possibility of adding a Blacklist System.

What's that?
After being selected as bot leader, that player cannot be selected again for the next 3 rounds (that number can be changed by server command).
Why blacklist might be a good idea?
Sometimes Player 1 is always selected as bot leader and the poor Player 2 hasn't been selected since he joined the server
Which mod appies this?
Who Dun It. To prevent a player is selected as murderer several times (sadly WDI is closed code).
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on November 18, 2011, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: "FCx"
the possibility of adding a Blacklist System.

What's that?
After being selected as bot leader, that player cannot be selected again for the next 3 rounds (that number can be changed by server command).
Why blacklist might be a good idea?
Sometimes Player 1 is always selected as bot leader and the poor Player 2 hasn't been selected since he joined the server
Which mod appies this?
Who Dun It. To prevent a player is selected as murderer several times (sadly WDI is closed code).

That's a good idea. Within the context of 'random selection' there always exist the probability, however small, of selecting the same person multiple times in a row. I know how WDI avoids this conceptually and the concept I arrived at independently is really similar but also takes what they do a step further. It isn't in the latest release posted because I need to stress test its stability.

Also in the queue for the next version are

I'd like to keep the focus of the core game that's there now. The testers and I have been pretty pleased at the gameplay of the latest release here. Feel free to continue to post suggestions here with the core gameplay focus in mind, though.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SaviorSword on November 26, 2011, 02:47:55 AM
Small suggestion, at the moment the only bots that this mod picks are just a few but not all the bots. Ya should add all of them into the list, so that if this and (KY/YD) classes are ever combined, we can see all the classes used instead of the select few bots/"class".
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on November 26, 2011, 09:14:56 AM
Quote from: "SaviorSword"
Small suggestion, at the moment the only bots that this mod picks are just a few but not all the bots. Ya should add all of them into the list, so that if this and (KY/YD) classes are ever combined, we can see all the classes used instead of the select few bots/"class".

Yeah, ok that's reasonable. Having classes associated with bots makes this somewhat important.

The one thing I might take care to do is making sure not to include things like Megaman in the bot list. Megaman, Protoman, Roll and maybe some others kinda doesn't make sense to have "going rogue". The robot masters definitely though. Having said that, Roll is in there now but not for any specific purpose; just to show some contrast/ humor in the bot choices. Can someone provide some "in-universe" explanation to include Megaman et. al in the bot army possibility list? I'm open to it, I just can't think of how it would make sense myself.

Maybe we can open a discussion on skin changing. In a much earlier version I had a method to change skin on the bot leader to match the bot army; one of the tactical elements that I enjoyed playing this with real people was the camouflage element. I have yet to consider a method to store what the skin currently is to reset to later. The current algorithm I have on the shelf allows you to change the skin, but not "change back" to what it was. As such, I decided not to go with it but I'm open to be persuaded to add this back in.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Messatsu on November 26, 2011, 11:48:04 PM
Quote from: "SickSadWorld"
Can someone provide some "in-universe" explanation to include Megaman et. al in the bot army possibility list?
I can't think of an in-universe reason to fight 15 Metal men or Centaur men so....um.....yea.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Korby on November 27, 2011, 02:16:11 AM
Same reason there were Gutsman clones in the first game.

Also, "Megaman?" could be a viable explanation, or even Roboenza.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: Copy Robot on November 27, 2011, 02:30:58 AM
Best explanation:
Copy Robots  :cool: since Powered Up seems to show Wily has multiple of them
The end.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] True Bot Apoc
Post by: Tesseractal on November 29, 2011, 01:35:18 AM
Although Sick provides an "explanation" from a sort of theatrical view, I prevent a more pragmatic one: The bot stats for Mega Man, Roll, etc. are rather poor in comparison to the rest of the bots. (House robots don't have good combat skills, I guess.) If those bots are included it'll put the leader at a natural disadvantage.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on January 26, 2012, 02:51:52 AM
bump for v2c
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: HD_ on January 26, 2012, 03:06:42 AM
So wait, was the Bot AI improved or not?

If it is, I'd play it just for that.

/me downloads
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: xColdxFusionx on January 26, 2012, 09:51:51 PM
Quote from: "Human Destroyer"
So wait, was the Bot AI improved or not?

If it is, I'd play it just for that.

/me downloads

Sounds like the "improved AI" is more for managing weapons. Bots will still be dumb as bricks movement/attack-wise.

And this may never change, since it's pretty much impossible to make a botscript due to the Skulltag dev team losing all their bot stuff.
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: SickSadWorld on February 11, 2012, 12:07:37 AM
Updated file hosting with Dogsoft mirror (indexable by wadseeker)

Back up and running!
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: ChaoticChao on March 08, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Would this work with classes? If so, that would be a struggle
Title: Re: [Game Mode] Bot Apocalypse
Post by: xColdxFusionx on March 08, 2013, 04:06:18 PM
I believe it does; it summons pretty much any bot that doesn't have a space in its name (iirc), so Classes Bot Apoc should work.

I know Mess is/was working on CSCC Bot Apocalypse; now THAT will be a sight to see.