Buster-only runs: completely missing the point?

[MusashiAA]

This is something I've been questioning myself for quite some time. Let's put it this way:

A Mega Man game, following the classic "Jump-N-Shoot" gameplay formula, is basically a game where you jump from platforms to platforms, avoiding pits and hazards, and kill any enemy that blocks your path to the end of the stage. The goal of the game, aside from clearing it, is to defeat all the bosses and copy their abilities. Said abilities are either more powerful than your default plasma gun, or more useful in certain situations you may encounter in later stages.

Long story short, the main attractive is the Weapon Copy System. The Zero, ZX and Legends series have their own approach to this, but in the end it's all about obtaining a wide arrange of weapons/abilities at your dispense.

In most MM games before X4/Legends 2, you were encouraged by the game to use those weapons, since later stages/bosses required more firepower (which you already had/ needed in order to get there). When X5 came, the games seemed to make more emphasis in the default weapons, save for a few weapons that were actually mandatory to just pass a certain stage. This is also a trend that's taking over the more recent Jump-N-Shoot games, where at least 3 out of 9 weapons are handy and fun to use.

So my questions are: isn't going for buster-only runs, missing the whole point of playing MM games? If a whole MM game can be beaten with the default weapon, wouldn't that make it the most powerful/useful weapon in the game, therefore the cheapest way to clear the game? If you're able to refill your other weapons with drops, why do people stick with the buster, when there are more efficient ways to clear a stage?

[Korby]

I would assume they try for buster only runs to challenge themselves, unless you're implying something else that I didn't pick up.

[Max]

Buster runs are more of a challenge. The emphasis is still on the weaponry as it's rather hard to beat the game without them, but once you've beat the game about 10 times it's nice to try something different.

[Ivory]

Well. I can speak for myself when I said. I'm completely OCD about stockpiling ammo. Even if it's easily refillable. No matter how many times I beat the game, I still conserve ammo for the just in case I know won't happen.

That being said, I still use the weapons if it's applicable for better success.

[MusashiAA]

@Korby

In games like MM10 or MM5 or X5 or some Zero/ZX series save for Z1, it seemed like the only useful thing in the game was your default weapon given to you at the start. It seemed as if you can beat the game without the help of the rest of your weapons, save for a few moments. This means that a buster-only run, in the "Jump-N-Shoot" games, is the easiest way to clear the game.

I'm implying the lack of importance given to copy weapons recently in both official AND fan games. Instead, we're given tweaks to the default weapon/abilities.

Why removing the slide and Charge Shot? Capcom could've just made a harder stage layout/stronger enemies, but they didn't. Another trend is: most popular MM games = usefulness of the default weapon in said games.

[Mr. X]

Personally, I like the removal of the charge shot and slide.  I went back and played MM5 and MM6 after playing MM9 and MM10 and I found that having no slide and no charge made things simpler without detracting from the experience.  However, I feel MM9 put more emphasis on alternate weapons than ever.  MM10 could have if the weapons didn't all suck (except triple blade).

[TrueTenguMan]

Why removing the slide and Charge Shot? Capcom could've just made a harder stage layout/stronger enemies, but they didn't. Another trend is: most popular MM games = usefulness of the default weapon in said games.

If I recall, both slide and Charge shot made stage transversing and boss battles rather... easy. Mega Man being about difficulty ((I assume...)) was what made fans enjoy it so... If Slide was never implemented into MM3, Then a good portion of the bosses would of gave you a harder time. If Charge shot was never implemented into the other titles, then despite simple stage transversing, bosses would of been slightly difficult to beat, therefore actually giving obtained weapons a use and possibly a bigger use in environment if enough time was given to design them that way

But since they were IN the game, the weapons just get the cold shoulder while the Mega Buster is the next Metal Blade. Yes they COULD of made stage development harder, but really the only thing hard about the mega man stages were the enemies themselves since they gave off that feeling of intimidation ((big eye anyone?)).

[KillerChair]

Well. I can speak for myself when I said. I'm completely OCD about stockpiling ammo. Even if it's easily refillable. No matter how many times I beat the game, I still conserve ammo for the just in case I know won't happen.

That being said, I still use the weapons if it's applicable for better success.

This.

And the fact ofcourse that beating a game with buster only is an awesome challenge.

And about the sliding/charge buster... i like those, it made the games a bit more easy but it made you more cautious of when to release the fire button.
(also the fact that the charge buster is one of (mm7) burst man's weaknesses)
The sliding just looked cool    and it was used as a feature in order to beat some stages/bosses.

[brotoad]

this is why megaman 4 is one of my favourite games in the series, almost all of the weapons are useful and fun to use too! they removed slide and charge shot because they seem to think that megaman 2 is the greatest game they ever made. i think that was a huge step backwards on capcoms part, slide and charge shot were both fun to use too! it's as if capcom are scared to add new game mechanics because it won't be "retro enough"!

[MusashiAA]

they removed slide and charge shot because they seem to think that megaman 2 is the greatest game they ever made.

Not that I hate MM2, but it's not the greatest MM game ever made to begin with (I personally think MM3, along with X1 hold that position).

If I recall, both slide and Charge shot made stage transversing and boss battles rather... easy. Mega Man being about difficulty (I assume...) was what made fans enjoy it so...

Well, how do you think that easyness can be solved? A trickier stage layout and stronger enemies/tweaking the Charge Shot. That could've been easily made. And you're right about what MM games are about: difficulty and how you solve it.

...the only thing hard about the mega man stages were the enemies themselves since they gave off that feeling of intimidation (big eye anyone?).

Nnnnnooooo... the stage layout is really important, since it can also determine the type of enemy that can be implemented into the game to make things more difficult. The stage layout is not only the look of a stage: it's the enviroment itself (platform-ladder-pit-hazard positioning, stage gimmicks...)

A MM game can be very different if the developing process follows the "design neat and useful weapons/abilities->make hard stages that encourage the player to use those useful weapons we designed to beat it" formula, instead of "make hard but beatable stages->design weapons that make certain parts of a stage easier". I believe MM5-6-10, X5-8 and the ZX series were made using the last method, making less emphasis in copy weapon usefulness.

However, I feel MM9 put more emphasis on alternate weapons than ever.

Remember MM1-2? I absolutely agree with you on that...

I went back and played MM5 and MM6 after playing MM9 and MM10 and I found that having no slide and no charge made things simpler without detracting from the experience.

...but not on that. Longer stages/smarter bosses would've easily compesated the addition of the slide, while stronger enemies/nerfing would've solved the Charge Shot issue. Capcom's obsession with "keeping it retro" didn't need to eliminate Classic Mega Man's most famous abilities, and they still did.

"Let's make a new MM game, but without the slide and the Charge Shot" is pretty much saying "let's hack MM2 and add new weapons". Don't get me wrong: I love the return of the 8-bit graphic style, but damn...

[brotoad]

i did love the return of 8-bit at first, and i guess the lack of slide and charge makes it more accesable for newcomers to the series!
but i think they were really milking the whole 8-bit craze come MM10, don't get me wrong i loved that game and the stages were awesome (bosses were pretty weird but oh well), but sometimes i think it would have been better had they made in in MM7 style, or even 2.5D! it just felt like a hack of MM9 really with new stuff added in. (this is also true for most of the classic series but it doesn't feel like it in the same way, can't explain why)

still, without MM9 or 10, mike may not have been inspired to make MM8BDM!

[TrueTenguMan]

X5-8.

If you really believe that X6 had the 'best" placement of enemies and stage design regarding difficulty, remind me to throw a few drill bombs your way when I see you in a Death Match

Well ok... maybe three of them were actually good ((especially Metal Shark player)) but I can't say it's the best example for the element(s) your referring to. Maybe I should introduce you to HideOfBeast, the dude who tortured himself with X6 enough that he developed a relationship with it

(click to show/hide)

[MusashiAA]

X5-8.

If you really believe that X6 had the 'best" placement of enemies and stage design regarding difficulty, remind me to throw a few drill bombs your way when I see you in a Death Match

If I do, by all means go ahead. You'll do it anyways :3

X6 was a convoluted piece of game. Barely playable. One of the hardest/most broken MM games I've ever played. STILL, THAT'S THE ESSENCE OF THE SHADOW ARMOR+ULTIMATE BUSTER, RITE?. Broken game requires broken armor. Which also brings me to another issue: later X games gave more importance to the completion of the armor, but X6 goes beyond this in the most beyondest beyondness that can be achieved, and more. You literally NEED the Shadow Armor to proceed. Otherwises, you can't. You will ragequit, no questions asked.

BUT HOLY MATOYA, THAT GUY IS INSANELY MAD! He's my hero from now on. Screw you, Dr. House.

[Mr. X]

i did love the return of 8-bit at first, and i guess the lack of slide and charge makes it more accesable for newcomers to the series!
but i think they were really milking the whole 8-bit craze come MM10, don't get me wrong i loved that game and the stages were awesome (bosses were pretty weird but oh well), but sometimes i think it would have been better had they made in in MM7 style, or even 2.5D! it just felt like a hack of MM9 really with new stuff added in. (this is also true for most of the classic series but it doesn't feel like it in the same way, can't explain why)

still, without MM9 or 10, mike may not have been inspired to make MM8BDM!

I totally agree.  MM9 was great.  MM10 was like "It's good, but can we have a good Mega Man game with good graphics?"  Even the bad box art was just "meh" as opposed to the completely unexpected and hilarious MM9 box art.  I laughed for 5 minutes when I saw that thing!  MM10's, I just chuckled for 5 seconds.

[TrueTenguMan]

but X6 goes beyond this in the most beyondest beyondness that can be achieved, and more. You literally NEED the Shadow Armor to proceed. Otherwises, you can't. You will ragequit, no questions asked.

Yeah and to get that armor, you need to go on a unnecessary rescue mission for reploids in X6's environment. Oh and don't forget the Nightmares which pop out almost every 2 seconds in half of those stages. Pray to Light- ... sorry I forgot Dr. Light would be considered the devil here.... uh...
Pray to... Toyota(?) that they don't turn that reploid maverick otherwise you'll have to reset because:

1. That reploid contained a part

2. That reploid contained a part that you actually need to assemble another type of armor JUST to save another reploid in another place thats impossible without it.

Look, there's nothing wrong with going beyond the limits of difficulty or complexity (("I wanna be the guy The Movie: The Game anyone?")), but unfairness and luck should NOT be the elements implemented into games. Players themselves should only psychologically believe that until they mess around with the stage enough to see improvement prior to the hassle they have to deal with. Gate's Lab II is a perfect example, which Hide said he saw improvement to progress through and planned properly unlike Ground Scaravich , which involved luck and "Cat and Mouse" tactics.