[OUTDATED THREAD] Class based modification (v9fh)

[FoxBoy]

Me and nik found a problem with v8c.

If you have Coldman summon an ice spike inside Hardman and have Hardman punch it, it causes a crash in 2.1.2 of Zandronum. This may be an inconvenience, though its worth mentioning.

http://puu.sh/rduAQ/eb6ac5beec.log

[Gummywormz]

Some last minute comments:

Apache Joe isn't overshadowed by the truck or useless imo. It's very good for maps with lots of height variation such as Fake Man or Concrete Man. Just give all vehicles armor and it should be good.

Suction from Dust and HSH is still horrible especially in team lms. Can we at least give characters with a dash / slide a way to invalidate the suction?

Freeze Man's freezing ability lasts longer than Frost Man's (I think). Lowering the time spent frozen would be great.

Finally, to this day, no one has made a good Enker class. My idea is this: low / normal health and high speed. The main fire with no ammo is a reliable, low damage, rapid fire melee. The alt should be able to be held and based on ammo, and not be a one time use. Projectile speed should be medium-slow speed to help with aiming.

[MusashiAA]

classes-v8d is out

http://allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=classes-v8d.pk3

CHANGELOG:

http://pastebin.com/raw/jD28Kirh

Changelog is pretty much v8d-beta's, but with extra stuff added based on public beta input and new stuff and whatever. Sorry for no differentiation between changes in v8d-beta and v8d :c

If nothing big happens, next update WILL BE v9a with MM9 classes. The current ones out in public, plus the really old internal class designs we had most likely will be looked at and changed. Please understand.

EDIT: Welp, if you have already downloaded this file, please redownload: we did a quick hotfix to change some things for Magnetman, Topman, Waveman, Woodman and Plantman. Sorry for the inconvenience, changelog contains the exact changes made for the hotfix.

[GameAndWatcher]

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I'm honestly questioning whether or not Wood Man should be weak to Solar Blaze, as in MM10, his Weapon Archive data was weak to Triple Blade instead.

[Beed28]

In this release, Pirate Man's Remote Mine is somewhat... inconsistent, compared to the previous beta or even the copy weapon version, which kinda sucks out some of the fun I had with the class the other week.

Unless it's a nerf of some kind.

[GameAndWatcher]

Apparently, you guys forgot to fix the "Protoman-Hair" skin for Proto Man's slide sprite change. He turns invisible when you slide with said skin. This should be simple to fix.

[Mister_Y_675]

What's pirateman's steal ability good for?
Why is the number of things stolen important?

[MusashiAA]

low priority Request time:

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Dynamic = multiple frames for a fluid animation, like Timeman's Time Slow

Rock: missing kick frames on walking-on-ball attack, and ball dropping frames.
Roll: missing broom swinging and bucket firing frames.
Dr. Wily: missing frying pan swinging frames
Sniper Joe: missing grenade throwing frames

Gutsman: missing punching frames?
Bombman: missing bomb holding frames

Flashman: missing Time Stopper firing frames (used in MM2, can be dynamic)

Hardman: missing rocket boosting frames (used in MM3)
Snakeman: missing climbing/poking frames
Sparkman: missing proper altfire spread firing frames (used in MM3)

Brightman: missing bulb throwing frames, and proper Flash Stopper firing frames (last ones used in MM4, can be dynamic)
Dustman: missing proper Dust Bitter and Dust Buster firing frames (he fires them from his buster arm, not from his vacuum)
Diveman: missing proper Dive Mine firing frames?
Skullman: missing proper Skull Barrier firing frames (used in MM4, can be dynamic)

Gravityman: missing proper Gravity Hold firing frames (can be taken from MM5, can be dynamic)
Waveman: missing proper Water Wave firing frames (used in MM5)
Gyroman: missing proper flying frames (used in MM5, can be dynamic), extra sprites used for takeoff (used in MM5)
Starman: potential improvement of firing frames (used in MM5, can be dynamic)
Chargeman: potential improvement of tackling frames (used in MM5, can be dynamic)

Flameman: missing proper altfire firing frames (used in MM6).
Knightman: potential improvement of firing frames overall (see MM6 sheet)
Plantman: missing proper Plant Barrier frames (can be improved, see MM6 sheet)
Tomahawkman: missing proper feather firing frames (used in MM6)
Windman: current firing frames are wrongly animated, altfire firing frames can be improved (see MM6 sheet).

Freezeman: missing proper Super Freeze Cracker frames (used in RM7FC)
Junkman: missing proper punching frames (used in RM7FC), potential improvement of Junk Armor firing frames (can be taken from RM7FC)
Burstman: missing altfire trapping bubble frames (used in RM7FC)
Springman: missing proper Spring Punch frames (used in RM7FC).

Tenguman: missing proper Tornado Hold firing frames (used in RM8FC)
Clownman: should mainfire firing frames show his arms attached to his body, despite Thunder Claw being made up of Clowman's arms? Should altfire firing frames show both arms, despite Clownman visibly burrowing one arm for this attack (look at RM8FC sheet for reference)? Shouldn't the swing attack have swinging frames (see RM8FC sheet for reference)?
Frostman: missing punching frames? (seen RM8FC sheet for reference)
Grenademan: potential improvement/inclusion of Grenade Spreader firing frames (see RM8FC sheet for reference)
Searchman: WHAT THE FUCK, SEARCH DISK AS AN ACTUAL FIRING FRAME BOTH IN MM8 AND RM8FC

Good luck making these:
Burnerman: missing proper Burner Dive charge frames and Bear Trap throwing frames
Coldman: missing proper Cold Shoulder firing frames and Cold Field firing frames
Dynamoman: incorrect altfire firing frames (in MM&B, the projectile is ejected from his buster arm like Tenguman's Tornado Hold), could use a second firing frame for mainfire firing (see MM&B sheet for reference)
Magicman: missing proper Magic Ball throwing frames

oh btw we kinda got the other mm9 dudes' design mockups at least somewhat done and decided on, still none made yet, go and play jc mm9 when it updates in the meantime



and pirateman steals because he does what he wants, he's free

[Magnet Dood]

I have frames for Flame's alt fire and all of Charge's animations, and I got started on Burst's bubble frames and Shade's swoop (that thing's a bitch). I'm not sure if they're on this computer, though; if they aren't, the quickest I can get them to you is around Thanksgiving.

Edit: Also have Bright's Flash Stopper frames somewhere, just wish I knew about this over the weekend while I was actually home, haha

[MusashiAA]

I have frames for Flame's alt fire and all of Charge's animations, and I got started on Burst's bubble frames and Shade's swoop (that thing's a bitch). I'm not sure if they're on this computer, though; if they aren't, the quickest I can get them to you is around Thanksgiving.

Edit: Also have Bright's Flash Stopper frames somewhere, just wish I knew about this over the weekend while I was actually home, haha

Wow, that was fast.

BTW for graphical reference, these are SOME of the frames I had in mind that we could use rotations of:



We already have Shade Swoop rotations thanks to DarkAura/Cutmanmike, since we're adding that attack next release. Speaking of next release, it's gonna be v8e: given that we had too much fun adding new things and fixing others, v9a is still prolly some ways ahead. We have some partial design mockups for the rest of the MM9 bunch:

Max made a basic Concreteman not long ago so there's something to work over, we've discussed and set on some design mockups for Plugman, Tornadoman and Splashwoman (theory only for now, can change in the future), while we've had the design mockup of Jewelman set long ago.

[Davregis]

Hello! I don't know if we can still post here on the forums for simple stuff like this, but please tolerate this being a slightly longer post 
So I think Gravityman should be reworked a little. In his current state, he's all of bland, ineffectual, and a bit broken too aside from his S-tier taunt.
Here's the case for that:

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if you agree gravity is already kinda shit or needs a change or two just skip this

-Buster has significantly lower DPS than mega buster up close
-Medium-low ROF and projectile speed
-At range, buster has less DPS than Skull Buster

This puts him bottom 3 damage classes for his mainfire. He cannot trade with any class (doc robot lul), which forces him into a utility/sniper role which he's also ineffective at.

-Gravity hold does 12 damage base, scaling up to 30 with a standard jump, and around 75? off a Quint pogo
-Ghold deals less damage with range, and is a short-mid range attack
-Gravity hold takes 6 seconds to recharge


This means that Gravity Man is completely ineffectual at actually killing classes that aren't Quint with Hold. Anyone who sees a Gravity coming up will just not fly. This might sound valuble, but in a 1v1 with literally any class gravity is outgunned badly enough that the 12 damage from hold isn't only extremely useful, but it also suggests a playstyle of run -> hold -> run.

Here's how you deal with gravityman as a flying class: rush him down and kill him, because he doesn't have the damage to compete. If he pops hold, you have 6 seconds to fly at him. If you don't want to deal with him, just don't get near him and he can't do his thing.

Here's how you deal with gravityman as any other class: rush him down and kill him because he doesn't have the damage to compete.Not jumping for fear of getting held means he's holding onto his ulti(yes) and has less damage output.

The flip is okay as an escape/mobility but is sometimes just used for stalling. Flip is mostly good imo.

Gravity is situationally good on stages with lots of height variation, but it's both awful and annoying to get instagibbed just because you took a lift.

So Gravityman wants a few changes to make him less annoying to fight against and a little better at stopping flight. His buster,  hold, and flip could maybe use a few tweaks.


GRAVITY HOLD

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-Reduce base damage to 5 so he can't pretend he's budget Centaur Man
-Add 2 multipliers, 1 for standard jump height and below, one for above standard jump height. Gravity should not be as effective vs jumping, and jumping ghold should only do around 10.
-Cap damage at 50 at around Quint max pogo height to prevent instakills on maps with lifts. Lower damage overall
-Increase range a bit
-Remove ammo and make it take awhile to use instead (thrusts hand out, ghold is done, leaves hand out for a second or 2 to recharge).

This means spamming ghold will not effectively damage people on the ground.Basically, make it create a no-fly zone near gravity, but not a
jump-and-die-instantly zone.

GRAVITY BUSTER

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-Damage to 15
-Applies single-target gravityhold on hit (1 shot does 20 damage + falling)

Right now his buster is both bland and weak. Give it some Gravity Man flavor and let him fire anti-air missiles while increasing his damage.

FLIP

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-Requires a full bar of ammo to use, quickly drains ammo while rising but walking/using has no cost
-Slowly drains stamina while walking on ceiling, 0 stamina forces him to land.

Basically, this should prevent MM2DW1 shenanigans while allowing him to stay on low ceilings for a higher percentage of time and high ceilings a lot less.

Put together, these should make him a decent buster class while expanding his AA but preventing his instakills. I don't know if this is good, or even better than current gravity, but thanks for reading!

[Max]

The discord has MOVED to a new server for organisation of discussion and transparency of development.

https://discord.gg/395EPXP

Please continue to support CBM over there, and look forward to its upcoming revival!

[Celebi]

http://allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=classes-v8e-beta1.pk3

Hey everyone, its time for another public beta for the next version.  The patch notes can be found here.

http://pastebin.com/raw/K8W6Fu8Y

There are quite the number of changes for this version. Be sure to try them all out!

[Endymion]

Awesome, I start liking this mod more and more.

I have a suggestion or request if it is possible. Duo should have his signature ground punching move. It could be the secondary attack's charged version and would cost around 2-3 or more from the gauge (the gauge that depletes as you dash with Duo).

Also here is a bug with Bass but it may occur with any other classes that have "dash gauge". Even if you have no bar in that gauge you still can dash.

[GameAndWatcher]

Also here is a bug with Bass but it may occur with any other classes that have "dash gauge". Even if you have no bar in that gauge you still can dash.

This is intentional, but you should also notice that 0-bar dashes don't go as far as normal ones.
The "Dash Ammo" bar is more like a stamina meter than a true ammo bar.