[Maps] CSCM Pack. V5c + Remixed maps (Under new management)

[MetalMasher]

The crashing most likely happens because of the teleporter changes, Musashi posted a patch for that a few posts ago that fixes it by adding it after the map pack

http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=dogman-telefix.pk3

Thanks man! you helped me much!

[MetalMasher]

Going to bump this thread to let you all know that a patch that only fixes 2 way teleport crashes was just released for this map pack: missing textures and whatnot are still missing and whatnot. Now I don't think anybody really intents on reviving this map pack project at all, but the demand for making it possible to be hosted came from the desire of preservation and nostalgia, rather than to revive and update the map pack with changes. For those interested in hosting this for whatever reason, load this after the map pack.

http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=dogman-telefix.pk3

To be safe for BE hosting, please use the CSCM modification that was used for Mapchella: it removes MM5CHAX (the supposed reason as to why CSCM was blacklisted on BE). This fix takes that modification into account. Also something about being careful with MM2DW2X.

Bumping here Because the link expired, please, fix the link.

[DarkAura]

IT'S HAPPENING! AFTER 5 YEARS OF WAITING! [Exclamation3.txt not found]

CSCM+REMIX V5C DOWNLOAD!

(click to show/hide)

---ALL MAPS---
v5b compatability
MM8, MM&B, and MM9 weps sprinkled into most of the maps.
Map Cards added for all maps
Sector damaging scripts fixed.
"Block Monster" LineDef settings added to areas where it was needed/missing.
Teleport fixes
LineIdentification relacements
Various musics re-ripped and/or looped

--CSCM01 "Wily's Kourtyard"--
Music chaned to 7DW4MUS from core

*NEW*--CSCM03 "Offsite Training Grounds"--*NEW*
Revised map design by Blaze Yeager

--CSCM04 "Wily's Kottage" a.k.a. "Messatsu's house, possibly"--
Music changed to 7DW1MUS from core

--CSCM06 "Frost Processing"--
Wall directly above ladders extended outward slightly.

--CSCM07 "Fireball Deathmatch"--
Pit script added underneath 3D Floors

--CSCM08 "Knight in the Castle"--
Music changed to MWSMUS from core
Fire Trap fix

--CSCM11 "Castle Crashers"--
Moved outside ladder inward slightly

--CSCM13 "Scarlet Devil Mansion"--
Layout symmetry attempt (possible revert)

--CSCM14 "Chaoischer Garden"--
Most of custom textures removed as core textures can be used.
Various spawn points were moved around to better suit bots

--CSCM15 "Dog Man"--
Yashichi cubby hole made inaccessible.
Removed file-bloating example text from TEXTURES file.

--CSCM17 "Buster Rod G. (CSCM)"--
Map re-named "Buster Rod G. (CSCM)"
Music changed to core BRGMUS
Snakey actor/textures swapped to darker variants used in core's MMWTBRG.
Custom textures no longer clash with core's MMWTBRG textures.

--CSCM18 "Flame Processing"--
Fixed oil pit script

--CSCM19 "Her Man"--
Map design improved by Jakinator
Removed file-bloating example text from TEXTURES file.

--CSCM20 "Sea Base Alpha"--
Custom Met sprites removed in favor of core sprites.

--CSCM21 "Outback Garden"--
Long wall holes now inaccessible.

*NEW*--CSCM25 "The King's Dimension"--*NEW*
Revised map design by Jakinator

--CSCM28 "Starlit Playground"--
Guts Lift fix
Fixed floor-lowering script triggers
Copied spring script from MM7SPR for "bounce house"

--CSCM29 "Twin Castle"--
Replaced GeminiManStatue custom actors with RobotMasterActor from core.
North-East outside pillar made inaccessible

--CSCM30 "Gold Man"--
Removed file-bloating example text from TEXTURES file.

--CSCM31 "Skyscraper Grief"--
Updated oil pit script

--CSCM32 "Green Hill Zone"--
Removed Monitor actors and replaced with core weapons/items:
   Speed-Up -> Charge Kick
   Invincibility -> Skull Barrier
   Shield -> Jewel Satellite
   Eddie -> Eddie Summon

--MM2BUBX--
Added portals between upper and lower area
Core BubbleSpawner actors replaced with custom BubbleSpawner actors so bubbles do not
   appear to float out of the water.

--MM2DW2X--
Removed most of the custom textures as they are now in core.
Added voxels for the Wily Lift

--MM3SNAX--
Giant Snakey floor gimmick updated.

--MM4RINX--
Removed AIRSKY textures (Leftover from old sky-changing script)

--MM4BRIX--
Updated texture-swapping script.

--MM5CHAX--
Sector_SetWind effect added to rails.

--MM5WAV--
Replaced majority of custom textures with newer core textures
Ported over texture-checking script for boats.
Minor map edits.

--MM6CENX--
Floaty water removed
Teleporters in upper area pushed into floor.

--MM6FLAX--
Updated oil pit scripts

--MM7SPRX--
Spring scripts copied over from core
Ceiling springs removed (script doesn't make the player bounce that high anymore)

--MM7SLAX--
Unnecessary teleport areas removed.

--MM7TURX--
Hanging Tires can no longer be erased by Proto Shield

--MM7DW4X--
Fixed Guts Man G


--Known Bugs--
Certain projectiles cannot be shot through the portals in MM1DW2X, MM2BUBX, AND MM2DW2X
   *Bass Buster/Treble Boost
   *Laser Trident
   *Scorch Wheel
   *Ice Wall

Using Lightning Bolt while transferring through the latter-mentioned portals will crash the game.

Lag on MM5CHAX due to the train script if there are too many players/bots at once.

Map Cards will be missing some information that I haven't found while I was tending to this pack. Music replacements/updates are possible provided that the maker of that map, if still in the community, approves it.

MM6TOMX wasn't included in this pack as the file was corrupted when I tried to open it in DoomBuilder.

One last major note for anyone who wants to host this pack: MAKE SURE THAT MM1DW2X, MM2BUBX, AND MM2DW2X ARE REMOVED FROM THE MAP LIST WHEN PLAYING ANY MODE THAT INCLUDES A COPYWEP LOAD-OUT! (CBM, UNHOLY, ETC.) There is a very nasty bug that involves using Lightning Bolt around the portals that are used in these stages that can and will cause the game to crash. Fixing the bug is something I cannot do as it would involve making replacement actors from the core and that'd ruin its compatibility with other mods.

If ya have any music info that I missed, have access to a non-bugged MM6TOMX map from a previous build, or other problems come up, PM me or poke me on Discord to let me know.

[Beed28]

MAKE SURE THAT MM1DW1X...

Actually, it's MM1DW2X that has portals. MM1DW1X shouldn't have portals, at least, not when I last checked.

[Xhatahx]

So... what if I want to contribute a map to the pack? Who do I send it to, so they can judge it?

I don't know if it's good enough, but what the heck, might as well try.

[Rozark]

CSCM is dead and its spirit lives on within JAM.
There's no real reason to submit to this pack anymore.

[fortegigasgospel]

So long as you don't make the mistake I did and forget to submit your map piece.

[Messatsu]

CSCM is dead and its spirit lives on within JAM.
There's no real reason to submit to this pack anymore.

I think you're completely misunderstanding the original point of this map pack.  The maps submitted didn't have to be great or anything, they just needed to be playable and not horribly broken.  The bar for entry was low to allow new mappers to build their confidence as well as observe how players behaved in their maps.  A way to learn basically.  A common critique was that the quality of the maps didn't stack up against maps made by other folks (Ex. Ivory) and I always felt that was an entirely unfair expectation as you can't expect new mappers to be as talented as someone who's had more experience and it fundamentally missed the point of the pack to begin with. Hell, Korby submitted some crappy maps just to see if they were going to be accepted.  Yea, they were since folks actually did play them (why, I have no idea) and my initial impression was he didn't' know how to map.  Note to self: People are jerks on the internet.

That being said, I do think that combining the Remixed maps should not have been combined into this pack.  The standards should have been higher there.  From my own experience, Ice remixed was a good way to learn, but it's really far too large of a map and thus isn't really a good map for much of anything except hide and seek.  Something like that belonged more in the CSCM side of things.  Oh well.

The point I'm laboriously trying to get to is that the standards here aren't supposed to be high.  If JAM is a new map pack, it probably has better quality maps overall at this point.  (dunno, couldn't find a link) I think that would probably be a better goto for folks who don't want to put out an entire map pack and new mappers can learn to test the waters with CSCM.  Or if an experienced mapper wants to try out a new idea that may not work well in another pack.

Last thought for DarkAura.  Probably best to split out the Remixed maps and purge the crap from there.  I'm sure the standards could be raised to make some very interesting takes on the classics now.

[Rozark]

I think you're completely misunderstanding the original point of this map pack.  The maps submitted didn't have to be great or anything, they just needed to be playable and not horribly broken.  The bar for entry was low to allow new mappers to build their confidence as well as observe how players behaved in their maps.  A way to learn basically.  A common critique was that the quality of the maps didn't stack up against maps made by other folks (Ex. Ivory) and I always felt that was an entirely unfair expectation as you can't expect new mappers to be as talented as someone who's had more experience and it fundamentally missed the point of the pack to begin with. Hell, Korby submitted some crappy maps just to see if they were going to be accepted.  Yea, they were since folks actually did play them (why, I have no idea) and my initial impression was he didn't' know how to map.  Note to self: People are jerks on the internet.

I'm not misunderstanding anything, you've told me all of this before. If anything, you don't quite fully understand what JAM is.
They're friendly events built by the community, for the community. Unless a map is completely unplayable, the map is generally accepted into JAM provided it follows its respective event's guidelines. I'd say that's a pretty similar entry bar to the one you've provided.

That being said, I do think that combining the Remixed maps should not have been combined into this pack.  The standards should have been higher there.  From my own experience, Ice remixed was a good way to learn, but it's really far too large of a map and thus isn't really a good map for much of anything except hide and seek.  Something like that belonged more in the CSCM side of things.  Oh well.

The Custom vs Remixed split really should happen. Remixed's quality (outside of off the top of my head MM5CHAX) was significantly less than Custom's quality by today's standards. You were trying to do that before you gave up on everything, so at least to me, hearing this is nothing new.

The point I'm laboriously trying to get to is that the standards here aren't supposed to be high.  If JAM is a new map pack, it probably has better quality maps overall at this point.  (dunno, couldn't find a link) I think that would probably be a better goto for folks who don't want to put out an entire map pack and new mappers can learn to test the waters with CSCM.  Or if an experienced mapper wants to try out a new idea that may not work well in another pack.

(click to show/hide)

Free Link: https://allfearthesentinel.net/8bdm_jampack-v3a.pk3

Jam has existed since mid 2014, first hosted by SmashBroPlusB using a modification of one of my ideas, now hosted yearly-ish by Freeman, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't find a link. Do note that there's a brief update coming soon to fix things that weren't foreseen by Jam4 but that's Freeman's thing.
I don't absolutely hate CSCM, in fact, I have quite a bit of nostalgia for it as it was one of the three major packs that got me into mapping. However, it's an aged relic that has a nearly 1:1 identical replacement these days. The major (and only notable) difference between the two is that JAM is event based whereas CSCM people can enter anytime and not follow the aforementioned event rules. The point was that the spirit of a "Community Pack" has shifted from CSCM to JAM. There's much more I can go into here about ethics and entertainment, but this isn't about that right now.

My recommendation is to focus on updating broken mechanics or textures in the maps rather than trying to layout overhaul or replace them. If you decide to go with the latter, you're better off starting from scratch and salvaging the cream of the crop. +1 to splitting apart Customs and Remixed.

P.S. When's Dogman Remixed

[Messatsu]

I'm not misunderstanding anything, you've told me all of this before. If anything, you don't quite fully understand what JAM is.

You aren't wrong, really had no idea what that was.  However, the difference between event maps and standard map pack is kinda big I would think.  I think with that noted, that there is merit in keeping something like CSCM around.

The Custom vs Remixed split really should happen. Remixed's quality (outside of off the top of my head MM5CHAX) was significantly less than Custom's quality by today's standards. You were trying to do that before you gave up on everything, so at least to me, hearing this is nothing new.

Ah, I should clarify.  I'm not involved in this any longer, so whatever I say here is just my opinion and has no weight on what actually happens.  The split comment was more directed at DA than anything else.

P.S. Dogman Remixed would be hilarious, someone should make that happen. +1

[Gummywormz]

Jam is a rare event, requires direct collaboration, and limits freedoms with its gimmicks and time constraints. Its not really the place for a brand new mapper (especially if they are new to the community as well) to join in. CSCM is a good place for initial entry.

Not to mention various issues and drama.

[Dr. Freeman]

Jam is a rare event, requires direct collaboration, and limits freedoms with its gimmicks and time constraints. Its not really the place for a brand new mapper (especially if they are new to the community as well) to join in. CSCM is a good place for initial entry.

Not to mention various issues and drama.

Cool. I'm not here to argue against CSCM. I think it's incredibly outdated but if people want to put a map in it, that's a-ok. Would probably also make it less outdated as a result.

I am here to say however that Jam hasn't required direct collaboration since the 1st jam, the other 2 simply take map pieces ala FTM, just without the contest entry and people directly make the pieces. I don't know how much of a gimmick I'd call map pieces since from what I've seen a number of mappers work better when they have a base to begin with. Though Bond was more gimmicky than PBJ.

However, I do want to say the number of first time mappers that have showed up in all the jams so far. Jam 1 was the first time map for me, Gumball, Galactan, and I'm pretty sure Hilman (not 100% sure on that one). PBJ was a first time mapping for Ceridran. And the recent Jams Bond was the first map made by Jatea and while once again not his very first, it's the first completed map I've seen from Brash Buster as well.
So saying that Jam is not good for first time mappers isn't exactly true.

Also I would be interested in hearing what drama has arisen from Jam this whole time? Because I've heard absolutely nothing since I've run it. Though probably in a PM so this doesn't clutter the CSCM topic.

That said, I'm also +1ing Dog Man Remixed.

[Xhatahx]

Well, I set off this debate, so might as well join in.

So why did I think about sending a map in? I missed JAM earlier this year because I thought it would be too daunting. Then DarkAura came along, resurrects this map pack (not sure, but that seems to be his thing), and I thought "Well, there's a chance to make a map without having to make a map pack!"

I think JAM is a great idea, a map compo where everybody gets an idea on where to start based on the map pieces given, although being annual and having restrictions on level design has its drawbacks.

I also think CSCM is a great idea, a map compo where anyone can submit a map, at pretty much any time (with some judging system to weed out the shit maps) but it's probably a dead project with very low interest. Such a shame.

btw, I've already sent my map in to DarkAura. Only time will tell what happens next.
btbtw, +1 to splitting the pack.
btbtbtw, I'm eating popcorn.

[DarkAura]

The main reason I salvaged this and the No Constancy Expansion and brought them back to surface was to re-make it to the point where it could, once again, be accepted by the community and played as much as all the other maps. Yes, all these maps were battered by the sands of time, but by bringing them to everyone's attention, they could all be revised by those who made them. All the new possible gimmicks that can be devised as well as the host of experience that the map authors have gained or the past years can be utilized to make their map's less simplistic and more complex. As Gummy said, CSCM is a safe haven for new/in-experienced map makers. It's a way for them to show off their creativity without the fear of the more serious criticism that other collaborative map packs function on. They can then look back on them in the coming years and say, "I know how I can improve this." I know this is coming from someone who hasn't done a lot in terms of originality for more than that time-frame, but I personally hope to achieve exactly that feeling, especially in mapping. Heck, I might end up pitching a map for this at one point because of this. I'll possibly end up achieving the exact same thing for CSCAT which is the same thing, but for the game's weapons.

Splitting the pack, I can absolutely agree on. Since the Remix maps have a higher quality than most of the CSCM maps, it's better to keep them separate.

In terms of judging maps and such, I personally believe I can't do that. My main concern is that I can't really explain the reason why I would reject it. I can be flat about it and say that it's too small, too open, too claustrophobic, lack of weapon variety, among other common criticisms, but of course I'd never be flat with a decision like that. It's a combination of that, the possibility of the submitter's persistence, and the concern of whether or not the submitter will challenge the logic behind my judgement. I'd be more comfortable having a select few to help with judging.

I'll release both of the packs separately once I get a few decisions out of the way for the maps currently in them.

[Xhatahx]

DarkAura, you earn my cookies.

But now there's the problem of judges, or more accurately, the lack thereof. I volunteer to be one, but more are probably needed; I'm just one guy with one opinion.