It's done! It's finally done! After so many years of progress, Project Jitterskull is finally released. And on the Day of the Dead no less! So here it is!
Ghouls vs Humans NES Edition (http://wadhost.fathax.com/request.php?159)
Now you can experience the combination of both games made by CutmanMike with two ways to play.
1. 8BDM Gameplay: Deathmatch and Last Man Standing can be played. Fight until you you're the winner.
2. GvH Gameplay: Team Deathmatch and Team Last Man Standing are probably going to be the most popular for this. Banish the Ghouls back where they came from or vanquish the humans to rule the planet.
If you've played GvH, then you know what to expect. If not, then some things here may be a surprise to you.
Keep in mind, there are some differences between this and the original GvH.
1. Jitterskull and Sjas have been nerfed.
2. Steam Cannon has been nerfed.
3. Ghouls and Humans can jump higher to navigate the 8BDM terrain easier.
4. Three new classes have been added. (Arthur, Cacodemon, and Yurei. Four if you count Megaman.)
5. Achievements are not present.
6. The Marine's pistol has ammo and has the fist.
7. The Hunter's magic can blind opponents.
8. Ghostbuster can gain weapons from humans.
9. Marine's bullets are no longer hitscan.
10. Choke has invincibility frames unless hit by rapid weapons.
11. Some of Meepy's code from the Add-On classes was used for Health Drainer.
12. Cyborg can regain jetpack ammo from weapon energy.
Maps includes:
GVH01 - Forbidden Forest by CutmanMike
GVH06 - Arcade Souls by Sun Wukong
GVH11 - Hollywood Hollocaust by Areial & Doomfiend
GVH23 - Rust by Doomfiend
Known Bugs:
Fisting Medal is given by the greandes when used by the fist.
Certain sounds are still missing for a couple humans. (mainly ghostbuster)
There is a point in time when the humans that have multiple weapons will switch back to the weapon they were switching off of, this is because the locking system was removing the player's copy weapons.
The Plasma Grenade sometimes doesn't give you the frag.
Credit to CutmanMike and Carthief for the original Ghouls vs Humans.
I liked it as is, but is a shame I couldn't play without crashing on almost every map.
No, the crashes are most likely NOT the mod's fault. Rather, it could be something wrong with maps, OPEN scripts or a terrible case of server not transfering values sometimes.
i want to suggest this:
(http://townesfox.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/original.jpg)
want on the next upgrade now.
Warning: Wall Of Text ahead.
Humans
For a faction based around ranged attacks, the Humans aren't that good at their job. You need an entire team of Humans to take on one Ghoul. By contrast, a single Ghoul can mop up an entire team of Humans fairly quickly.
Megaman
...Well, he's Megaman. There's not much you can change about the vanilla class. Giving him x1.1 Damage might help him be relevant.
Marine
The Marine has a variety of weapons at his disposal, but the problem is that it's hard to access them because the Shotgun and Machine Gun, the two relevant starters, aren't exactly the best guns. ...And the Shotgun is pretty much melee only, which defeats the purpose of having it on the ranged team. We need a reason to use the pistols, and tighten the spread on the shotgun just a little.
Hunter
Pointless weapon, Rocket Launcher that doesn't do much damage, Shotgun that's only effective at “You Got Dead” distance, Railgun that also doesn't do quite enough damage. Projectile speed on everything should be raised just a touch, to boot.
Cyborg
Big, slow tank on a team where health is just a number that makes you feel better about your chances of survival without actually helping. And his jetpack helps only marginally. Fun.
Being able to recharge your ammo does help a bit in a game where ammo does not actually exist, but Cyborg needs some sort of advantage that actually helps. Perhaps increase the DPS on his plasma cannon?
Question: Didn't the highest level plasma balls deal splash damage in the official mod?
Ghostbuster
The Proton Cannon is surprisingly hard to hit with, and ghost traps are a bit difficult to use. Perhaps make the hitbox on the Proton Cannon slightly bigger, and AoE for the Ghost Traps should be raised slightly.
Note: Give us the option to switch the buttons on the ghost traps. Please. This is going to drive me nuts.
Engineer
We need a reason to use the blade traps. Why use them when there's infinitely better traps at our disposal and the other weapons are more useful?
Arthur
Okay, he has three different weapons with three different ranges. Now give us a reason to use anything other than the Torch of Infinite Area Denial.
Ghouls
I know the Ghouls are supposed to be melee. That doesn't mean they all have to deal 100+ damage with their melee attacks. That's just cheap.
Sjas
This is what happens when you give Toadman no wind-up, flight, and haste. Seriously. Nerf the damage and/or the speed so that the damn thing isn't a hard-to-hit flying murderfest.
Jitterskull
Personally, I think he's fine as-is. If anything, he needs a way to deal with the bottomless pits that litter the Monstropolis landscape.
Choke
Fast, durable, and a pain in the ass to deal with at any range. I appreciate the blood ball being difficult to hit with; give the Cyborg a reason to exist and bring down the damage on it so he can survive it (if you haven't already.)
Creeper
This thing is an instant murder machine. Make it easier to get him off of your tail if you spot him so he doesn't just rush people down blindly.
Frostbite
Slight nerf on the bite might help, but I'm not sure what to do with him He's at least not as bad as the others in most cases.
Yurei
Take Creeper and give it a complete and utter disregard for any sort of balance. That's Yurei. A short delay on Traumatize would make it a bit more skill-based, and Flame Vortex strikes me as a bit powerful.
Cacodemon
In stark contrast to the Ghouls' lightning fast speed and horrific attack power, Cacodemon moves at a ploddingly slow pace and can't hit the broadside of a slow-moving bus. Give us a reason to use the bastard without making us feel like we've been shafted by the random class generator.
I know it's based on vanilla, but a better effort could have been made to clean things up in the balance department.
EDIT: A few more rounds prove that most of these changes should be very slight. Sjas and Cacodemon are the top priority, but the others should at least be looked at.
So my thoughts:
Regarding humans:
Marine: His skin looks awful. The weapons are very cool, but he seems rather standard. The best weapon all around is the machine gun, which ends up being effective enough to outshine the other weapons...but he's mostly OK.
NERFS: None.
BUFFS: None.
Hunter: For a class with lots of 2-4HKO attacks with blinding-fast projectiles, he way a lot of ammo. 30 arrows, to be precise, and no penalty usage for the elemental arrows. And the altfire attacks don't even consume ammo.
His gameplay is OK, but the way it's executed is very forgiving. I know, ghouls are a very bad thing as they stand right now: but I'll get to that later on.
NERFS: I'd suggest a second ammo bar that acts as "mana", where the altfires and the elemental arrows get their magic from. Each elemental arrow would consume its own amount of mana: a full mana bar would allow for 7 lightning arrows, 12 fire arrows, 15 ice arrows. This will end up being rather pointless, but when combined with altfire magic, where each magic should use half the mana bar, you'll want to think when to shoot your elemental arrows.
BUFFS: I'd also like the Hunter to slow down a little bit when "holding" an arrow, but the more you hold it, the faster the arrow will go, up to 1 and 1/2 faster than the current projectile speed. I'd also like some elemental arrows to have a special added effect on hit: lightning stuns ghouls, and ice slows them down.
Cyborg: Everyone says that old YD Wily is pretty much a copy of this...THIS is not old Wily at all, but I can see the resemblance. You have over 100 shots that are literally 6HKOs, and a very rapid rate of fire. You also are very mobile, and can fly (not a reliable flight, but good enough.
I can see the role here, but some aspects are missing:
NERFS: Reduce his movement speed by 20%. Decrease the mainfire's rate of fire AND reduce his total ammo by 50%, because he has way too much more than he'll ever need.
BUFFS: Increase his HP to 150.
GHOSTBUSTER!: The only thing I have to complain about this class is that his proton beam has enough ammo to last for 16 seconds non-stop. That's too much, and to put it in perspective, I can kill 10 Megamen in a row and still keep half of my ammo. Despite this, it's a very good class. The ghost trap is very ingenious, and I like that it does go away after a long, long while, when it's needed the least. I'm gonna leave the copy weapons alone: if they're OP, the Ghostbuster well deserves it for killing a ghoul...not because it took much effort in killing it, but rather surviving the fight:
NERFS: Increase the proton beam's ammo usage by 50%.
BUFFS: None.
Engineer: His nailgun is a 7HKO with infinite ammo, his "Meteor Launcher" is a 3HKO, and the buzzsaws are broken as hell.
NERFS: Nerf the nailgun to a 9HKO. Fix the buzzsaws.
BUFFS:None.
Arthur: To put it in perspective: Hunter's normal arrow is a 4HKO, Arthur's Spear is a 5HKO. The Sword&Shield makes him pretty much a ghoul (1HKO melee attack) with Proto Shield, and the shield bash would be the most griefing weapon ever devised since Magnet Push...if it weren't for flying ghouls, but we'll get to that later on. The Fire weapon is broken as hell: 7 of those columns at a time makes it a really good area denial weapon (fire a column, switch to Sword&Shield, hold altfire while looking down, get hit by the fire: pro)...which is good given the circumstances, I guess. The Axe is a subpar Screw Crusher, but he has more interesting weapons.
NERFS: Make the Spear a 6HKO. Nerf the Sword's ripping damage by at least 2 damage; reduce the Shield's range, the damage AND the pushing force by 50%. Speed up the Fire Column's life duration by 30%.
BUFFS: I was thinking maybe have him gain invincibility frames a-la Choke only when he reaches less than 25 HP. That is, if his HP is reduced to less than 25 HP, invis frames kick in after every hit.
Regarding ghouls (in general):
Ahem...INFINITE FLIGHT?! WHAT KIND OF A BRAIN DEAD DEVELOPER GIVES A PLAYER INFINITE FLIGHT TO A CLASS IN A TEAM-BASED MOD?!. Well, the kind of developer that misses the huge billboard written with shit that spells "STALLING" all in caps.
I'm sorry for being such an asshole, but I have to manifest my frustration over such a miss. You can't blame the map OR the player for permitting stallers to stall: the map was not made in mind with a player capable of using a part of its layout that is unreachable through normal (read: vanilla) means as a stalling spot, and the player should not be blamed for using an ability that allows him to escape harm for as long as he desires thanks to using a previously unreachable spot to hide. You can say votekicks remove the staller, but it does not fix the issue: it only solves the consequences of a design flaw.
Fixes: I have currently two ways of dealing with this abysmally bad design flaw:
1.- Item flight. You give the ghoul an ammo bar if it didn't have one. Itemfire triggers the flight, it consumes either the brand new fligh ammo, or his default ammo. Once it's entirely consumed, you start falling, and it only regenerates if you're on the ground. YOU'RE WELCOME.
2.- If by some sad, disgusting and stubborn fate, you decide that these ghouls should be able to lolligag all over the sky with no limitations or gameplay penalizations whatsoever, with the wonderful ability of hiding in out-of-reach spots for as long as they want until the players have to resort to votekicking (proud of you, son), here's another idea: if a ghoul doesn't KILL a player for 1 minute, they start losing health at a fantastic rate of 1 HP per second. So stallers either go out and kill somebody, or they starve to death.
OK. Now that's out of the road...
Regarding ghouls (one by one):
Sjashow do you pronounce this: Your average ghoul with a 90 damage ripper melee attack, really fast movement speed, 100 HP and a subpar reflect ability. OK, that's about it:
NERFS: Nerf his melee attack so it does 80 damage. Reduce his initial HP to 50.
BUFFS: Make the reflect ability better, or last a bit longer.
Jitterskull: He's pretty solid as a ghoul class. The jittery movement is rather unreliable and unpredictable if you lag a bit, but it's not too bad.
NERFS: None.
BUFFS: None.
Creeper: The OHKO ghoul that nobody can see OR know how to harm at first. Why do I have to shoot right under him to harm him? He's clearly not underground, he's just part of the floor.
NERFS: The damn thing should be easier to shoot.
BUFFS: None.
Choke: Grab Sjas' already OP mainfire, and give it a faster RoF PLUS TWO medium range 1HKO attacks, while keeping the same movement speed and removing flight. That's Choke. OK, let's see:
NERFS: Reduce the ripper melee attack so it does 75 damage tops and for God's sake, reduce the rate of fire by 30%. Nerf the Blood Ball shot to do 90 damage, nerf the blood puke attack to not 1HKO on a single spew.
BUFFS: None.
Frostbiteor Slash, whatever: Bearing the most fearful ripper melee attack out of the normal ghouls (does over 95 damage at point blank), and a very deadly über Icy Breeze with projectiles that bounce. Doesn't seem at bad as it looks, though. Your average ghoul.
NERFS: Reduce his initial HP to 90. Yup, that's it.
BUFFS: None.
Cacodemonor a mutant meatwad, whatever: Dat bite, dat HP, dat...pathetic pea shooter? And slow to boot? What, no.
NERFS: None.
BUFFS: Increase his movement speed by 10%. Make his altfire shot either a 6HKO or with an added explosion a-la Hunter's fire arrow.
Yureior Goatse, seems more appropiate: That silent 1HKO, that overly compensating, Touhou-esque barrage of deadly fireballs (each sporting 8 damage, mind you), that cheap and unreliable invisibility...not as bad as it sounds after you see Choke, unless I'm the one that's killed by a Yurei. I gotta say, fucking genius, you literally make human players pay a whole lot more attention to their surroundings.
NERFS: None.
BUFFS: None.
I have to admit: I have no experience with the original game. It's just not something I was attracted to try for a number of reasons. This is the first public release, everything's virtually done. An amazing job at getting this done, I have to congratulate the developers of this for bringing this to fruition. It really is amazing.
That doesn't stop me from glancing the numerous design flaws and balance issues that this mod has. Maybe they aren't issues in the original game, given that perhaps maps were designed around these abilities and classes. Sadly, this is not the case for MM8BM and as such, measures must be taken. I don't want to bring the developers of this port or anyone down because of such balancing issues: this is by no means a bad modification. It is, in fact, one of the most interesting mods for MM8BDM, and I can see this becoming overplayed in a while. But as this is the first release, issues and bugs are bound to surface, no matter how much it was tested or discussed or who did.
Is it alright if I give a class suggestion?
If so...
Shademan [Team Ghouls]
Works just like he does in YD classes. He'd be one of the first Projectile-centered Ghouls.
but anyway, current changeset:
- Nerfed Sjas' Range, removed projectile damage, nerfed explosion damage to 85 from 100
- Revamped Jitterskull's alt, it now removes floor hugger and enables jump on him
this allows for him to navagate maps such as Gyroman and the like (hopefully) without as many problems
- Scaled the health values of the ghouls to be more balanced towards 8BDM play style
The only exception is Caco, who will be buffed in some way soonish(?)
- Sjas now has flight stamina that degrades over time, return to the ground to recover
Also
FUCK SJAS, MARINE, AND GHOSTBUSTER TO HELL!!!!!! :mad:
With rust, spikes, and whatever is deadly.
I don't think we need more speed Ghouls.
Cacodemon is an interesting class.
In fact, he's the very opposite of most ghouls in stats, having exceedingly slow speed and
a quite substantial amount of bulk.
Cacodemon
Cacodemon
+Flight
+Bulk
+Projectile
-0.30-0.45 speed
-15 damage projectile
-Projectile travels exceedingly slow
This makes him the opposite of Sjas in method of attack, though the roles are similar
Sjas
Sjas
+Flight
+.60-.69 speed
+Able to block damage
-Not as durable as Caco
-No projectile
Caco/Sjas comparison
While Sjas is the "ninja" ghoul, relying on near-invisibility and speed (flight >.>)
to offset his bulk, Caco is more of a glacier: slow, durable, and can break apart
if hit properly.
Caco Plasma/UP
Due to his slow speed and low comparable damage output, Cacodemon is rated
as UP.
This is correct, though for slightly different reasons than stated.
Cacodemon has a method of escape, however unreliable: his Hard Knuckle-recoil Caco Plasma.
However, this Caco Plasma is utterly unusable in normal gameplay due to slow speed and poor DPS.
Conjecture below
Cacodemon relies almost solely on flight and corners to get damage, forced to
rely on stealth and the often-2-3hko bite (Yeah, YOU try actually hitting people three times with the bite.
It happens, but only around corners when the other guy has his back turned>.>) to get any reliable kills.
Essentially, Caco relies 100% on outsmarting the opposition and abusing flight to get frags.
Having used him a bit, mostly as a joke (I went around as Cacodemon for a bit), let
me propose a buff that would work to his current strengths.
+Projectile slightly homes
+Projectile damage buff
+Bite travels farther
(+Resists Ghostbuster/Cyborg shots)?
or
(+Some degree of stun armor)?
-Increased Bite cooldown
What this buff does
What this does is give him the ability to flush out campers and perhaps actually hit with that
terribly slow projectile.
It also makes his bite likelier to score that fantastic OHKO that is a product
of either corner-turning luck, or a pure form that comes from outwitting the competition.
(http://i.imgur.com/UQMjRYI.png)
(http://puu.sh/a627s/f85d549b8f.png)