[SUGGESTION] RNC Content in Core

[CHAOS_FANTAZY]

I know that MM8BDM v4 was just released, and no one wants to detract from the general excitement.  I chose this moment because now, all of CutStuff's most experienced devs are unoccupied (Aside from looking into bugs), and may thus consider this more thoroughly.

For the most part, the Rockman No Constancy Expansion Pack was enjoyed.  When it came out, it was the thing to be hosted; it seemed like every server had it installed.  But when mods like VSH came back to the top, they never became compatible with the expansion pack; and thus, it faded into obscurity, and shortly after, unplayability (With updates).
RNC will need an update and a once-over just for compatibility purposes; and, I know of no one that would object to having any more content, let alone the content of the RNC Expansion Pack, in the core.  And it is for this reason—that more people may be able to enjoy it—that I propose that the content of the RNC Expansion Pack may be amalgamated into the core MM8BDM game.

It comes to my attention that some people may not want any fanmade content alongside the core, which is, apparently, supposed to only feature content from official Mega Man games.  They may not want any RNC weapons in their core maps to damper their "official game" experience.  I once recall CutManMike saying that once the official games, he would look into adding core content for fangames, ROM hacks, et cetara; but beyond that, who said they had to put any RNC content in the core maps?  By all means, leave the RNC weapons out of the core maps; they don't belong in there anyway.  Some server RCON dedicated to adding its weapons in/taking them out of LMS's weapon rotation would be ideal, but if not, I would be satisfied to leave them out entirely (For, undoubtedly, someone would make a mod for it).  Beyond skins and bots (Which no one cares much about anyway), adding RNC's content into the core does not have to have any sort of notable impact.

But how are we supposed to incorporate the RNC campaign into the main one?
Like the weapons in the core maps, you don't.  My proposition is thus:  create a new branch of the Light Laboratory map, which can lead to Rockman No Constancy's campaign (And, presumably, the campaign of other fanmade expansions at a later date).  Its structure would likely be changed to the "save after every level" method that MM8BDM has used since v3, for constancy *Shot* with the rest of the game, if nothing else.  It could be managed by some friendly side character; perhaps Mega Man himself, or Fan or Kalinka (Mega Man being replaced with one of the other options when he gets grievously injured by King in the MM&B campaign).  They would explain that the new campaigns are new circuits for the Robot Master Tournament, which would allow them to stay topically relevant while still remaining unobtrusive to the plot as it currently stands (The Robot Mater Tourney having not been a plot point since all the way back in v1).

What about the MMPU Expansion Pack?  Why do they get left out in the cold?
Unfortunately, MMPU Expansion Pack became little more than a glorified Remix Map Pack when Time-Man and Oil-Man were added to the core.  While the MMPU content wasn't bad in any respect, it rings of redundancy, and it's not fully 8-bit besides (The music from MMPU would have to be chiptuned first).  While its campaign and maps were enjoyable, I am, in truth, unsure with how to proceed adding its content to the core.

The only objection I could think to raise against this proposal is that the content of the Rockman No Constancy Expansion Pack is too low-quality (Though I don't see how it could be; many of the A-list mappers that have been called upon to help official Expansion Packs had a hand in RNC) and would need reconstruction to the point of distracting the team from working on bug fixes and balance tweaks.  With that in mind, I think the only question left for me to ask is who agrees with me, as one thing I failed to do in preparation for this post is poll the public.

[Ivory]

PU is an official capcom, RNC is not.
There is nothing to discuss.

[CutmanMike]

I don't consider RNC to be official so I really don't want it being added to the core, but feel free to discuss. A fanmade expansion is possible though!

[MusashiAA]

RNC isn't official...and despite how silly that may be, it's pretty solid. And by tht logic, Street Fighter x Mega Man has more if not any chances to be a core expansion than any Mega Man hack.

[CHAOS_FANTAZY]

I don't consider RNC to be official so I really don't want it being added to the core, but feel free to discuss. A fanmade expansion is possible though!

No, see, that's the whole thing.  The fanmade expansion pack has been completed since September 2012.

I did my best to describe how it could be incorporated as simply and unobtrusively as possible (Since no one plays it anymore and that holy grail that all MM8BDM modders strive for—or at least ought to strive for, in my humble opinion—all went to waste), but I guess it's impossible to argue with "The lead says no" so whatever

[CutmanMike]

I guess it's impossible to argue with "The lead says no" so whatever

Well... it is my game?

I'm keeping by the rule of official Capcom games only, not everyone knows what rockman no constancy is. Don't get me wrong, I love the romhack it's one of my favourites and the team that worked on the RNC expansion did an amazing job! But I'm only sticking to the main games for MM8BDM, sorry.

[Magnet Dood]

While this is kind of off-topic, is it possible for unofficial expansions to create a campaign mission for the core game?

[CutmanMike]

While this is kind of off-topic, is it possible for unofficial expansions to create a campaign mission for the core game?

Since the script files are now open and available for anyone to use, potentially yes. But getting your head around how it works and how the save system functions may be tricky as there's no tutorial or template for it. Maybe something to consider for the future if people want it. On the other hand, it's possible to just replace lightlabs and make your own scripts to warp to maps etc if you wanted.

[Superjustinbros]

Personally I'd say no. Once we get MMV by V7 and complete all the core MM games (all 12 of them), I wouldn't consider making a fangame/ROM hack expansion the main focus for V8 should it exist. Even with how popular RnC, RM4MI, and MMU may be, they should stay as fan-made optional expansions not required to play Mega Man 8-BIt Deathmatch. So you can put in the expansions you want and leave out the ones you don't.

[fortegigasgospel]

While this is kind of off-topic, is it possible for unofficial expansions to create a campaign mission for the core game?

Since the script files are now open and available for anyone to use, potentially yes. But getting your head around how it works and how the save system functions may be tricky as there's no tutorial or template for it. Maybe something to consider for the future if people want it. On the other hand, it's possible to just replace lightlabs and make your own scripts to warp to maps etc if you wanted.

This is very relevant to what Dood was talking about too. This could bod well for my plans.

[Stardust]

Ehhh, it's kind of tempting... if it was up to me, I'd say yes for having the RNC content... or rather, for having some hacked roms' stuff, however only a very very few could make it (the best ones are probably RNC and R4MI so far.) At the moment though, there is a priority on the original Megaman games, it's more reasonable to reach at least MM10, fanon games musn't take the lead over canon games. After this, it's conceivable. In the meanwhile though, it would still be possible to make RNC a common mod to use somehow, like newtextcolors is (well, this one is not a mod, and it's kind of forced to use when hosting with BE, but what I mean is that the RNC external mod can simply be added over other mods on a regular basis and become common. Albeit it might need some comptability and updating)

[Superjustinbros]

At most, I'm mostly fine with just weapon packs that replicate the various hacks that are out there. Counting up every hack I know of aside from RnC and RM4MI, there's...

*Exile
*Indonesian Artifact
*Compilation
*Forever
*Odyssey
*'n Maxx
*Deus ex Machinia
*Gray Zone
*Abnormality
*Claw
*Cross X
*CX
*Unprecedented
*Innocent
*Skype

Anything I don't list (such as Mega Man Ultra) aren't included because their weapons are identical to weapons from core MM games, only differing in appearance and color.

Most of them would have eight weapons total, the only ones that would have fewer are Odyssey and 'n Maxx with two each, and Claw, being a MM1 ROM hack, always will have six as the standard. Similarly, CX is incomplete, missing two of it's weapons, as is the duo of MM6 hacks Innocent and Skype, both still in development and not available to the public.

I do see a point in wanting to do actual maps, but most of these hacks, since they don't alter the Robot Masters, should stick with using vanilla skins/bots incase a campaign was to exist based around each hack.

[CHAOS_FANTAZY]

Well, I can't really say that this ruling is unfair or is completely without logic, but I still am disappointed by this outcome.  I know I'm not going to change any minds, but I would at least like to make this statement.

I've always figured that Expansion Packs were the most successful thing in MM8BDM.  They add a bit of everything for everyone to enjoy, and it's been the only thing that can consistently cause a resurgence in playing.  v2, v3, v4, all of them had everyone get back in the scene and drew in some new attention as well.
That's why I've always pushed as hard as my incompetent self can to get the fanmade Expansion Packs finished—help out with those I could, support those I couldn't, even try to head a couple.  It was a direct way to contribute to keeping the game alive, fresh, and interesting.  I was overjoyed when RNC came out.
Now I know that, due to what I ascribe to lack of compatibility, that it has not had anything resembling the lasting impact of the official expansion packs.  I have discovered that the fanmade Expansion Pack is inferior to the official one in terms of production time and impact—and solely by the virtue of being fanmade, at that.

It was for this reason that I thought it would be a good idea to get the fanmade Expansion Pack in the core game.  But the lead says no and the polls agree with him, so I guess I'm done here.