DRSG Rebirth vB.1 - v6 Patch 07/26/2022

[Beed28]

Some complaints:

The boss music scripts are extremely primitive. I suggest looking at the ones in CSCM, which allows the boss music to play in duel, and victory themes.
Some graphics and sprites are not 8-bit.
Included is a skin of an apple with arms and legs and a pair of eyes. No, I am not making this up. What the hell is that got to do with this map pack?

[SmashTheEchidna]

It's probably some inside joke we're not getting.

[Duora Super Gyro]

Some complaints:

The boss music scripts are extremely primitive. I suggest looking at the ones in CSCM, which allows the boss music to play in duel, and victory themes.
Okay, thanks
Some graphics and sprites are not 8-bit.
yeah.....might have gotten a bit too creative...
Included is a skin of an apple with arms and legs and a pair of eyes. No, I am not making this up. What the hell is that got to do with this map pack? Apple is a skin I made a couple years, I made it because I used to play the game named Ninja Apple...I for some reason never deleted it and forgot it was a thing... and even worse, the arms and legs were ripped from megaman and placed on a recolored apple from kirby.

It's probably some inside joke we're not getting.

No...just somthing i completely forgot about...

[Knux]

*Note* If I missed someone, please let me know

Tested your CTF maps and gave feedback. :I

So anyway, let me go test the master pack. Been looking forward to it.

[Rozark]

I've arrived and am going to keep my word about brutally honest. Also be noted that these are my opinions, and you have the choice to either take them into consideration or not to.

(click to show/hide)

ToyTown:
Chess is still amazing, and so is this concept.
-There's a spot by the crayons that looks like you can go in, but can't.
You could fence that off.
-The skybox doesn't look right, it just doesn't. There's lines everywhere
about it and the Astroman/Star textures are cut out.
-Some areas have too much ammo/health, with the only major one I
recall being the dining tables before the chess room.
-Music could use some looping assistance.
-There's still quite a few open areas lacking things, such as that brown
floored bubble room.
OVERALL: NEUTRAL

Chill Hill:
More custom textures yay. Also, Cirno Fortress. Meow.
-Those water physics still bug me for a normal DM map. Eh, just a personal
preference really.
-There's just too much health/ammo here. You have some around a
teleporter only to have about numerous capsules nearby.
-Ice physics don't exist, do they?
OVERALL: NEUTRAL

Clockwork Caverns:
The map may be pretty, but I can't see it playing well.
-I feel Claustrophobic. There's too much stuff in the hallways and the
ceilings in places are low. Those open areas are a welcome change.
-Capsule balance was meh. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't great.
-Why in the world would I waste Skull Barrier for Wild Coil. Just wondering.
Right, Wild Coil is great in small spaces.
OVERALL (If Unintentional): DEPROVED
OVERALL (If Intentional): NEUTRAL

Dark Matter:
Whoa. Just whoa. I never really cared for the old version of this map, but this
I enjoy. Also Metroid Prime Hunters shenanners.
-Capsule balance could use work.
OVERALL: IMPROVED

Septic Tank:
I believe at this point I've lost track of what are remakes, and what aren't.
The scale at the end will be changed. Anywho, the concept is swell, and it
reminds me of a doom map.
-The liquid isn't flowing in the right direction at times. Just use a script and
flip them around.
-There are parts where the liquid is just sitting there but the texture is moving.
What.
-More clear in this map, but some areas are flooded with capsules while others
are neglected.
OVERALL: NEUTRAL

Jungle Trouble:
Wow.
-Capsule balance needs work.
OVERALL: GOOD

Beach Cliff:
Too much open space. Also ever since those Gutsman tiles were ripped
I see plenty of people using them. Excellent.
-Two long bridges feel unnecessary.
-Also in the above mentioned place, there's an open sky to one side where
a rock wall connecting the two halves of the map should be.
-Capsule balance needs work.
-I mentioned this map is open right, somewhat reminds me of MM3HARX x2.
-Oh hey it's those water physics again. While barely passable in the other
stage, it really isn't great to have it here as most of the stage is covered
in water.
OVERALL: POOR

Flakes Neo City:
I'm suddenly reminded of AMP pack. Might be the flashing textures/music
choice, this isn't a bad thing, just a reminding thing.
-The map is alright already without those gray sewer rock wall interiors,
whatever they're called. You could remove them, they're claustrophobic.
-I know capsule balance is difficult, it takes practice.
-DISCO FEVER DISCO FEVER DISCO FEVER (Not a complaint, I just
thought to point that out.)
-I love boxes that stare at me at all angles/sarcasm.
OVERALL: NEUTRAL

Star Hill:
IF YOU'RE WEARING PURPLE RAISE YOUR HAND, BECAUSE HERE'S A
MAP ABOUT THE COLOR PURPLE.
-I'm not really a fan of this particular song, although I suppose it would
seem fitting. This was really more of a personal preference.
-LonLon Ranch, down on the farm. By that I mean that this map is OPEN.
When I thought I saw open on the other maps, woo boy, that isn't
even a comparison to this. What I see here is a giant open field with
structures randomly placed about not really synced together. (Except by
the road, which is a nice touch)
-Capsule balance is poor. Yes, it's quite difficult to balance in such an
open map.
-The Skybox lines don't link, otherwise it's a great skybox.
OVERALL: POOR

Fort of Sand:
More like Fort of Why.
-I see the title says sand, and by that and your creativity of textures
in the past maps I expected sand. But the SAME TWO SAND TEXTURES?
The exterior hurts my eyes trying to comprehend the same color detail
spent into this map.
-Traps. You know, I like the occasional trap but not when it's littered like
this. Dead ends/staircases that just lead to death aren't family friendly.
-A huge gray and white wall. Pure gray and white, out of place. Why is this.
-There's a sand pit outside with capsules like a pool. Capsule balance please.
OVERALL: POOR


These maps look pretty, I'll admit. The only ones that I really thought were "jaw dropping"  were Dark Matter and Jungle Trouble. However, this pack could use some capsule balance (Difficult to accomplish, I know) and some layout revision here and there, particularly noted are the cramped/open space maps. There's a few keepers in here, but I feel as if there is work to be done still. The last two maps feel especially lazy, with one being just a wide space with random structures and the other breaking your care of nicely looking maps. You might be wondering why I didn't review the other half of this pack. Well, I've summed it up into one word: Nope. I took a look through and that just feels like I walked into an awkward wedding of two sides: Duora's pretty maps and worse layouts. If you want me to go further in depth on that half I will, but in the mean time I just won't touch it. The only great thing I enjoyed about those were the two Alice related touhou songs, but that's because it's those songs.

[MagnetMan497]

Rozark, I think Star Hill may be a reference to that of Paper Mario (considering all the Nintendo music, I wouldn't be surprised). It reminds me a lot like that, and that had a lot of open space. If he isn't trying to replicate that, then it needs less open space.

[Rozark]

Rozark, I think Star Hill may be a reference to that of Paper Mario (considering all the Nintendo music, I wouldn't be surprised). It reminds me a lot like that, and that had a lot of open space. If he isn't trying to replicate that, then it needs less open space.

I know what Star Hill is, and the map can be replicated without as much space.

[Duora Super Gyro]

Rozark, I think Star Hill may be a reference to that of Paper Mario (considering all the Nintendo music, I wouldn't be surprised). It reminds me a lot like that, and that had a lot of open space. If he isn't trying to replicate that, then it needs less open space.

I know what Star Hill is, and the map can be replicated without as much space.

It is actually based on Paper Mario, but it could be a little less open still.

[Rozark]

(considering all the Nintendo music, I wouldn't be surprised)

I may be mistaken, but there's only 2-3 tracks from Nintendo. The other 7-8 tracks are either fanmade or from Touhou, with an exception being Starforce.

[Shade Guy]

Oh, darn. Rozark beat me to commenting on these maps, but whatever. If I'm repeating something he said, it just means it's more immediate of a problem. Strength in numbers and whatnot. This is only based on the time I've spent looking at this map last night and earlier today.

General
-The music! This pack is 47 MB, and about 43 MB of it is music. I like to think that a map pack's file size shouldn't be too much larger than the amount of maps, eg. SHARP has 15 maps and is 12 MB and IX-Pack has 35 maps and is 36 MB. This pack however, has 21 maps and is, as mentioned before, 47 MB. Following this trend, it should probably be around 25 MB or less. Looking at the music in Slade, there are several unused/unnecessary songs. Tracks from the now-separated CTF maps are still included, there are a few tracks that replace stuff like D_GHOSTS and D_TTFTW and there is a whopping 13 easter egg tracks.
-Music should not have to be set using ACS. Add the line 'music = "[music code]"' to the mapinfo instead.
-Ballade Cracker is everywhere (which is bad)! I like to think that not using the same weapons over and over again helps make a map pack better when looking at it as a whole. There's probably some other overused weapons, but I'm just using Ballade Cracker as an example (I think I saw Danger Wrap quite a few times too).
-Thunder Claw Peg placement in general seems awkward. Most of the time, it looks like they've just been dumped there and the player is expected to be able to make a shortcut out of them.

DRSGDM03
-Space is an issue here. That is, it's too cramped. This is caused by two things: excessive use of those Metal Man screw things, and the fact that most rooms are connected by 64x64 tunnels. As such, removing some of the Metal Man screw things and opening up those tunnels would help considerably.
-The 64-height rails also make the map a bit more cramped. Consider editing them so they're only 32 units high. They also provide a ridiculous amount of cover as-is, and you can jump on them to reach Skull Barrier easily...Both of which would be fixed by shrinking the textures.
-The Atomic Fire tunnel is excessive. Since that whole room is a dead-end, I would suggest making the staircase leading to it smaller, to make it closer to the main area. The path to Eddie is also excessive, especially considering how it can be completely bypassed by using Skull Barrier.
-The staircase connecting the lower tunnel area with the WTanks to the area with Super Adaptor is also too large.
-Screw what Rozark said about using Skull Barrier to reach Wild Coil; using Skull Barrier to reach Danger Wrap of all things is more ridiculous.

DRSGDM04
-I enjoy this map. I just wanted to put that out there.

DRSGDM06
-The path to the ETank is fairly awkward, due to the concealed 32-height ledge behind the bush. That is, most people would get curious and try running through the bush, but be stopped by what they would assume is a wall (when it's actually the ledge), and think nothing was there. Of course, that might be intentional, but I don't really like it regardless.

DRSGDM07
-The layout is incredibly open and large. Consider scaling down the map.
-The deep water makes the size problem worse, since being slowed down while traversing most of the map makes it more of an inconvinience.
-The bridges are excessive, unnecessary and completely disconnected from the rest of the map, further emphasised by the weird visual stuff going on there which gives no indication that there's more to the map. Since size is an issue here, I would also suggest simply removing this area. That is, keep part of the mountain area as a small path between Danger Wrap and the interior, but the rest can be cut, including the interior path to the Knight Crush side of that area.
-The Flash Bomb ledge is fairly large for an area that only has one entrance, and is only accessible using Thunder Claw. It's also possible to reach it without the use of Thunder Claw with some careful jumping. That is, you can jump on the ledge with the fence midtexture and jump from that to the other side. Try moving the fence midtexture to the very edge where it is, so you can't stand on that ledge. That, or just make the ledge impassable.

DRSGDM08
-This map sure is big! So big, that there are teleporters in each corner to help players get around. The map could certainly do without the grey tunnels around the sides. They don't go with the 'disco rave' theme the map has going, either.
-The gratings around the water aren't impassable.
-I would suggest fencing off the edge of the yellow brick wall with Bubble Lead and that Raichu dude on the other side. It feels weird that you can fall into the water and die there, while there is water present in the map that isn't instakill.
-The destroyable boxes are problematic, since some weapons don't damage them at all. You can also get stuck in one if it respawns on you. I would suggest basing them off the Oil Canisters; damageable by everything, and you can still make them instantly break when hit by explosives like they are currently...Except, you know, without the damaging explosion like the Oil Canisters.
-The Astro Sun changing from green to orange is supposed to indicate platforms appearing/disappearing, but hey.
-Spoiler'd for seeecrets

(click to show/hide)

Flakes' messages during the easter egg don't appear online, which makes things awkward when everyone just hears STATIK for several seconds. I also dislike the easter egg song, but that's just me.

DRSGDM09
-Yep, this place sure is big and open. I would suggest scaling the hill in the middle down, moving some of the other structures closer to the middle so there isn't a bunch of empty space between them, and you could probably get rid of some of the other structures as well.

DRSGDM10
-Entire rooms moving up and down is excessive, especially since they move excruciatingly slow, blocking access to them for long periods of time. I think the sand moving up into the lava is alright, though.
-Fairly bland visually.

I always get a sort of 'adventure' feel whenever I look at these maps. Mainly because most of them are huge (usually bordering on excessively huge), but regardless, it's a nice feeling.

[Russel]

Thing about the way the easter egg is handled. It turns out you cannot log messages into the server in the way he had it handled. He just needs to clientside said script and it should work fine...assuming all that happens with the script in question is a log and an ambientsound, otherwise, he needs two scripts, one to handle the log and ambientsound and the other to handle the music change.

As for the whole crate thing, that can be handled with models...but models ONLY workin OpenGL and even then they need to be enabled to work correctly. Either you have ot wait for Voxel support (You have an eternity to wait???) or some absolutely obscene scripting shenanigans.

[Duora Super Gyro]

I might just remove the crates, thinking about it, they kind of just feel like their there just to be there but il vae to think about it.
But its gonna be a while before i resume working on the DRSG Pack, Im gonna try to help out with expansions and mods here and doom2, right now im thinking about attempting an all out war map, and a who dun it map, I also plan to finish that butter building map, and some other stuff. im also waiting for more reviews, the more info i have on whats wrong with the maps, the more i can do to fix the maps.

[Awbawlisk]

If you're going to plan on removing the crates in the Flakes Neo City Map, then try and re-arrange the thunder claw pegs in order to make getting Time Stopper that much harder, or just an entirely different way of platforming (T. Claw pegs and Yoku Blocks :+DDDD). I'm saying this because, right not as it is, once you get a good weapon to break open the crates then its just easy pickings getting Time Stopper. You could also completely remove it from the map, or just not listen to me and not remove it (which I could expect and understand since Time Stopper in Chill Hill his not too hard to get either...)

[Knux]

I'm just gonna copy/paste from Skype:

(click to show/hide)

Okay, I just finished seeing Duora's master pack...
[4:57:24 PM] Knux: Hot damn, I thought I gave him a good lecture about not making huge ass layouts with labrynths during the previous version
[4:57:45 PM] Knux: Still, the themes, texture choices and even the music are great exquisite.
[4:57:54 PM] Knux: I really liked the jungle level
[4:58:09 PM] Knux: He really needs to work on the weapon and item placement, too
[4:58:26 PM] Knux: Who the heck would platform for Needle Cannon!?
[4:59:10 PM] Knux: The other thing is that in the big layout maps, there's these dead ends and paths that lead nowhere.
[4:59:40 PM] Knux: Or hard to reach areas with pickups that are not worth the trouble
[5:00:39 PM | Edited 5:00:45 PM] Knux: The guy definitely has a sense of creativity. He just needs to grasp the concept of weapon balance, and what should be done in small and big layouts.

That's just a nutshell. I have a lot of other things to say, but those are the things that stuck out the most to me.

Oh yeah, Icicle Palace. Huge paths that almost go on forever. Please don't, dude.  

[ChaoticChao]

Would there be suggestions for this map pack (or ideas)?