Why you dont try to make your own classe mode Gummywormz?.... Instead say weird things to make this mode for you only.
I haven't played the hotfix yet, so I assume things like infinite wood man is fixed. Otherwise...
* All of the new huds / item icons are just bad. Some even go as far as blocking views (there's a reason spark man's hud was moved / shrunken.)
If more people complain we shall fix this problem and to be honest, I don't have a problem with it. Same for other people.
* Proto Buster and Bass Buster can pick up weapon energy.
This will be fixed but isn't priority
* The weapon system seems a bit awkward but I haven't actually played online yet so.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Awkward".
* The lack of Bass' spread is kind of awkward too.
I'm not sure if this is a problem that needs to be fixed.
* Bass can still move while jumping.
It is canon and makes bass better.
* Bomb Man's big bombs seem quite spammable since you regen them right after one goes off.
It isn't that spammable.
* It would be nice if there was a shockwave sprite or something to indicate how far the range of Guts / Stone / Hard's ground stomps are.
This isn't canon and may not look good.
* Why the hell is oil slider oil man's alt? I do actually appreciate that the oil itself is a straight projectile but it's just confusing that you can't ride the oil.
This is canon and doesn't affect gameplay too much.
* Time Man gets fast arrows...and slightly slower arrows. Really the speed difference between the two are indistinguishable.
I don't know, I can easily tell the difference but we might make more of a difference.
* Enker is still garbage. Saturn does a much much much better job of Enker's role so he's pretty much useless. His fully charged mirror shots aren't even a 4hko.
We are making Enker like Saturn in the next version.
* Bubble Man's buster trail looks bad and glitchy. Also the fire animation doesn't play for one of the attacks. The bubbles could afford to be a bit bouncier.
The bubble buster trail doesn't look glitchy. If it was, people would have said so on the servers. No, the bubbles don't need to bounce higher. Making them less bouncier, makes them more useful.
* Quick Man's dash is a bit weird. You can't change direction during it or cancel it.
If Quickman can't control it in the game, he shouldn't be able to control it in this mod.
* "I like how I can shoot infinite hard knuckles and not wait for them to return like a smart man."
This may or may not be fixed, although, I don't see this being much of a problem.
* Top Man's main fire is a bit dumb. You don't go straight, which makes hitting anyone not right next to you a bit of a problem. Also his alt seems a bit weird too but I haven't tried it online yet.
Topman's main fire may or may not be fixed and please play online.
* No medium charge level for Spark Man is kind of meh. Also as mentioned above, the HUD blocks my view pretty badly.
I don't see a problem with the HUD. If there are more suggestions, this will be changed.
* Magnet's alt seemed to do a ton of damage.
Makes him usable in death match.
* Snake Man's jump height should be increased a bit. He can't get on top of the buildings on MM2DW1 while a lot of the other classes can.
We are still not finished with Snakeman, He may get an alt fire.
* Why can't Gemini Man's clone be the alt? I don't remember there being an altfire.
This may be changed in the next version.
* Punk's alt is just insanely bad. You have to bounce 3 times before dashing. You can't change direction, and the distance is pitiful. Again, I haven't played online yet but it seems impossible to catch people with this.
Did you try holding the button? Also, I hit people easily.
* Pharaoh Man's HUD also blocks my screen a bit. Also I don't get why the uncharged shots have to be the alt instead of being a charge level. It allows you to spam it more but that's about it.
Again, if more people complain about HUDS then it may be changed.
* Ring Man... oh boy. You took the concept of YD's Ring Man and ruined it tenfold. Also the Ring Boomerangs don't auto return when they hit a sky.
I don't see anything wrong with Ringman and they do return when they hit the sky.
* Skull Man's alt is useless. You become invincible...but have to stop completely. Please do tell me where this would remotely be useful? Someone can just keep firing shots at you.
This attack bounces off projectiles and also deals damage if up close. This is very useful and I use it a lot.
* Why does bright man get a jump dash again?
It was a main attack in the game.
* Why do Gyro Man's gyros stop randomly?
Not randomly, it stops when you let go.
* Crystal Man has no animation when firing the main fire.
It isn't supposed to have an animation.
* Why is Star Man slowed down to about 0 speed when using Star Crash? I mean it could be worked in especially with the armor but right now it's far too slow.
This is used to discourage hugging, for our star man is a shooting class. He also runs half speed not 0 speed.
* Ok really, why is there a theme of projectiles stopping randomly?
What do you mean by this?
* Why do I shoot cherries as Mars? Also he has no proper photon missile. Also, his mines don't regenerate.
He doesn't shoot cherries, He has a proper photon missile and his mines do regenerate.
* Jupiter's flight alt seems a bit broken from past experience with these kinds of attacks but I'm not sure.
This may be fixed if more people don't like it.
* Uranus' item doesn't seem safe at all...
It isn't supposed to be safe.
* What is going on with Pluto's item? Also his skin looks like he's flopping on the ground when moving...
Pluto's item is a wall cling and I don't know what you mean by "flopping".
* Blizzard's alt seems too sensitive to walls / floors.
I don't see anything wrong with this.
* Why does Plant get a jump dash too?
It isn't a jump dash, it is a wall bounce.
* Tomahawk's alt is piss. There's no spread at all. Also the hud blocks my view too.
It does have a spread and is canon. The HUD may be fixed if more people request it.
* The cooldown for Slash's item seems quite insane.
It is needed, trust me.
* Shade Man's alt has waaaaaaaaay too much of a cooldown for simple spark shock damage.
It isn't spark shock damage, it has its own damage type that lasts longer.
Quote from: "Gummywormz"* All of the new huds / item icons are just bad. Some even go as far as blocking views (there's a reason spark man's hud was moved / shrunken.)
If more people complain we shall fix this problem and to be honest, I don't have a problem with it. Same for other people.
Am I "more people" yet
* Quick Man's dash is a bit weird. You can't change direction during it or cancel it.Most of his suggestions make me remember of YD's classes gameplay. Also, to most questions he's asking, the reason is that it's canon, what YD didn't do. And that's what this mod aims to (even through, some problems he talked about are also present in YD -- like Bubble's firing animation.)
* Tomahawk's alt is piss. There's no spread at all. Also the hud blocks my view too.
* Why the hell is oil slider oil man's alt? I do actually appreciate that the oil itself is a straight projectile but it's just confusing that you can't ride the oil.
* No medium charge level for Spark Man is kind of meh. Also as mentioned above, the HUD blocks my view pretty badly.
* The lack of Bass' spread is kind of awkward too.
* The weapon system seems a bit awkward but I haven't actually played online yet so.
* Skull Man's alt is useless. You become invincible...but have to stop completely. Please do tell me where this would remotely be useful? Someone can just keep firing shots at you.
^ Just concerning this : you can use it to protect from one strong attack, like Slash Claw or Hard Knuckle, and then cancel the shield before running away. Only using the shield for a half-second and cancelling it can help. You're not actually supposed to stand still when using it (except if a powerful attacks lasting, like Bomb's giant bomb is about to explode on you).
* Ring Man... oh boy. You took the concept of YD's Ring Man and ruined it tenfold. Also the Ring Boomerangs don't auto return when they hit a sky.
^ BTW no, they took the concept from Capcom's Ring Man
* Why is Star Man slowed down to about 0 speed when using Star Crash? I mean it could be worked in especially with the armor but right now it's far too slow.
* Why does bright man get a jump dash again?
* Why do Gyro Man's gyros stop randomly?
* Why does Plant get a jump dash too?
* All of the new huds / item icons are just bad. Some even go as far as blocking views (there's a reason spark man's hud was moved / shrunken.)
* Crystal Man has no animation when firing the main fire.
* All of the new huds / item icons are just bad.oh is that so ;-;
This isn't canon...
Quote from: "!o! woohoo"This isn't canon...
...so why does Stoneman have a charge attack?
Most of his suggestions make me remember of YD's classes gameplay.
Also, to most questions he's asking, the reason is that it's canon, what YD didn't do.
Incorrect. The YD classes consider everything a Robot Master could reasonably do within all the canons of Megaman, usually the arcade games.
And that's what this mod aims to (even through, some problems he talked about are also present in YD -- like Bubble's firing animation.)
Stoneman with a charge shot.
YD had less trouble balancing because they were more free on the attacks ;
I'm...not sure how that applies.
consequently they could make classes with attacks that may complete each other (i.e tengu man).
Every MM8 class is completely within reason for how they appeared in MM8, except for Astroman and a little bit of Frostman. Tengu especially, who quite literally did the tengu dunk in MM8.
But when getting into original gameplay, balancing is a harder task to do because you're limited.
WHAT
OKAY YOU KNOW WHAT? Just because you're trying to be more "canon" doesn't mean you can't BALANCE YOUR MOD. That is honestly one of the worst excuses I have EVER heard.
He's right on the glitches/bugs he found though.
* Quick Man's dash is a bit weird. You can't change direction during it or cancel it.EJSYADFHJKGF
If Quickman can't control it in the game, he shouldn't be able to control it in this mod.
k gonna repost this instead of editing
EDIT because I didn't read the post above mine:[referring to stardust]Quote from: "Stardust"Most of his suggestions make me remember of YD's classes gameplay.
Also, to most questions he's asking, the reason is that it's canon, what YD didn't do.
Incorrect. The YD classes consider everything a Robot Master could reasonably do within all the canons of Megaman, usually the arcade games.
And that's what this mod aims to (even through, some problems he talked about are also present in YD -- like Bubble's firing animation.)
Stoneman with a charge shot.
YD had less trouble balancing because they were more free on the attacks ;
I'm...not sure how that applies.
consequently they could make classes with attacks that may complete each other (i.e tengu man).
Every MM8 class is completely within reason for how they appeared in MM8, except for Astroman and a little bit of Frostman. Tengu especially, who quite literally did the tengu dunk in MM8.
But when getting into original gameplay, balancing is a harder task to do because you're limited.
WHAT
OKAY YOU KNOW WHAT? Just because you're trying to be more "canon" doesn't mean you can't BALANCE YOUR MOD. That is honestly one of the worst excuses I have EVER heard.
In my humble opinion our mod is more balanced than YD at the moment. There's a few things that we saw at the servers that will be fixed. But nothing as big as the balance problems in YD such as ringman, chargeman and pharaohman
He's right on the glitches/bugs he found though.
EDIT WITHIN AN EDIT BECAUSE HOLY CRAPQuote from: "!o! woohoo"* Quick Man's dash is a bit weird. You can't change direction during it or cancel it.EJSYADFHJKGF
If Quickman can't control it in the game, he shouldn't be able to control it in this mod.
WHAT
ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT BECAUSE QUICKMAN COULDN'T GO SIDEWAYS IN A 2D GAME THAT HE CAN'T IN A 3D GAME?!
ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT 90% OF CLASSES WON'T BE ABLE TO AIM THEIR SHOTS NEXT VERSION?
OH WAIT MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST REMOVE EVERYONE BUT MEGA, BASS, DUO, AND PROTO BECAUSE YOU COULD NEVER CANONICALLY PLAY AS THE ROBOT MASTERS[/capslock]
As for this; we meant the boost in the game acted like he lost control and consequently made him run into walls it was our reasoning for making it as such. I think it's a good trade off for extra speed.
So in other words, you just use the word "This isn't canon..." whenever it suits your purpose?I don't remember us just saying such we always gave another reason alongside.
Incorrect. The YD classes consider everything a Robot Master could reasonably do within all the canons of Megaman, usually the arcade games.I wonder why was this mod made then
WHATwell yeah
Off topic, but I feel like every attempt from people who haven't spent 5 years in this forum are badly received.I'm not saying this mod doesn't have its good points. I'm more outraged by what's been said in this topic.
Things "may" be more balanced, but that doesn't necessarily make them fun or even useful.
This mod gave me the true-to-the-games experience I could never get with YD classes, and I'm enjoying it vastly more. It fees a bit more casual than YD, but that's why I like it. However, the attitude of one of the developers in this topic bothers me considerably. A lot of your claims have no reasoning or evidence. Why would less bouncy bubbles be more useful? I myself haven't found them useful at all. It's vastly easier to hit someone with them when they can barely jump over them.
THAT ASIDE
I also think Sparkman's HUD ought to be widened. Being able to see is kinda important.
Oilman and Timeman's HUDs hurt my eyes, particularly Timeman's. It suffers from a problem YD Plantman suffered from in Software, pre-v3, that being his hand is one solid color.
Oilman's skin colors remind me of MS Paint. They're simply ugly. He ought to get the same treatment he got in the core.
Iceman and Waveman have lighter blues on their Ice Slasher and Water Wave, and Iceman himself is that same lighter blue. I mean, it's canon, so why not implement it???
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"Things "may" be more balanced, but that doesn't necessarily make them fun or even useful.
I'm not sure if you're implying that these classes aren't fun, but you certainly gave no backbone to this statement.
Quote from: "Fyone"Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"Things "may" be more balanced, but that doesn't necessarily make them fun or even useful.
I'm not sure if you're implying that these classes aren't fun, but you certainly gave no backbone to this statement.
I gave plenty of backbone.
You/the mod says this is "more balanced than YD classes" while being strictly canon, yet some of these "canon" things are clearly bad, not fun, or just aren't even worth the time to use them.
Also as I said we try not to be completely strict to canon; if the canon distorts gameplay then we wouldn't go completely canon as I stated above.
You/the mod says this is "more balanced than YD classes" while being strictly canon, yet some of these "canon" things are clearly bad, not fun, or just aren't even worth the time to use them.
The difference is it thematically doesn't make sense for Blizzard to be able to turn. He's rolling in a large snowball, and probably doesn't have much control on where he's going.
Quickman was LITERALLY BUILT to go that fast, AND FASTER, so trying to think he can't turn during it just baffles me to no end.
I don't think he should have gone faster, I find it ridiculous that he can't turn during it, when he could obviously be able to do that, especially when it's not even his "theoretical" max speed that you mentioned.
IMHO Terra should have his colors from Rockman 4 Minus Infinity, so he and the Spark Chaser are primarily blue instead of… green. Heck it's been established in promotional artwork that Terra's Spark Chaser is meant to be blue.
Uranus' front sprite is a bit dopey-looking; you could remove one column of pixels between the eyes to get a less derpy-looknig Uranus.
At least the HUD sprites are quite good, though I dunno why you went with RM7FC Slash instead of MM10 Slash.QuoteYou/the mod says this is "more balanced than YD classes" while being strictly canon, yet some of these "canon" things are clearly bad, not fun, or just aren't even worth the time to use them.
Reminds me of in Saxton Hale Rebirth with what happened to Gilgamesh and Morshu. More canon to source =/= better to play as.
All of the MMV colouring and such was based off of the wiki we aren't going to change it to blue just because Rockman 4 MI did.
So I want to weigh in
Warning: Very limited experience with this mod over the last couple days. Anyone may feel free to correct me if I make a wrong statement.
+ It's cool to see some different interpretations of the classes! For the most part, these classes are actually fairly entertaining to use!
+ These graphics are actually really good.
+ Spinning Tops is the definition of a sexy reimagining of the boring top shotgun. It's beautiful.
+ Also Air Wall Mini is additional sexy.
+ You did The Thing with Shademan's flight. I like The Thing. We need more of The Thing.
* A lot of classes get stuck with slightly modified versions of each other's altfires. Dust Man and Wind Man, Blizzard Man and Punk, Enker and Saturn... Can we get more differentiation?
I'm not concerned on this; if you have some suggestions by all means I guess just give good reasons.
* A lot of the classes also suffer from the issue of "this is neat, but not actually useful." Some more specific examples are below
* Quick Man is neat, though the straight dash makes him play a bit too much like a wonky Top Man. Are you SURE you can't allow him to turn while dashing?
We will see; I don't think it's necessary though because when I was playing him it seemed fine.
* Magnet Man's alt doesn't last long enough to be relevant. I have not been able to use it to any effect at all.
It is very good to say the least; iirc it's a clean 4hko with sucking capabilities and semi-large radius.
* Pharaoh Man's alt isn't particularly useful. Any chance he can get it changed out for something that's actually handy?
Make a suggestion and I will see; though it was meant for picking people off instead having to fully charge.
* Skull Man's "Zhonya's Hourglass", while a nifty gimmick, doesn't exactly do as much as you'd think it would. Not entirely sure what you could do with it though.
We have something in mind; basically instead of not being able to move he'll get half speed or something.
* I applaud you for having the balls to make Gyro Man's ammo bar actually relevant. I have issues, however, telling if he's actually usable or not due to how hard it is to hit with the gyros due to their slow travel speed and long pause before seeking.
The long pause is fixed as I have had trouble using him as well.
* Punk gets the award for world's most abusable contact damage. Find the right spot to set up and watch as people walk into you like lemmings.
Doesn't do as much as you think.
- Not exactly a direct issue with the mod, but this is some of the worst PR I've seen on Cutstuff in a while. "It's not canon" isn't a good reason to deny things that would improve the mod. And we already have enough classes mods holy shit
If we're gonna add something to the class we want to add something that would make sense with class but not to YD classes' extent.
- Copy Classes got a neat gimmick, but it really neuters their effectiveness
It was a way to nerf the copyweps slightly.
- Bass especially gets the short end of the stick, being forced to sit still while bosses can pound his face in.
He is fine if you know how to use him; Bass can jump while shooting to move and dash to get more distance if need be.
- Elec Man got nerfed since the last time I saw him. Jeez. Sniper Bolt should charge a little faster to make it not completely unusable.
iirc it's a 3hko, IMO it's fine.
- Oil Slider's hitbox either doesn't exist or is incredibly inconsistent.
It's buffed in the next version; it isn't inconsistent also it's just small.
- Flash Man still has the terrible KY charge. It doesn't even make sense with his canon attack pattern.
We don't want to make him OP; in the attack pattern he walks around the boss fight to charge his time stopper.
- Doc Robot is still one of the most awkward class in the game to use. Toggling your weapons around is obnoxious to do in a heated battle.
If you can set him up before you fight then you don't have to toggle as much though all in all I don't see this as an issue.
- Dive Man was nerfed into the ground. Holy nuts. His dash is literally unusable, which renders him pretty much unplayable due to the Dive Missile being pretty meh.
The dive charge is being buffed in ammo next version.
- Gravity Hold doesn't really do enough to justify how baffling it is to use.
Do you mean the copywep or Gravityman?
- Charge Man literally can't hit anything due to his changes. Coal Rain needs some sort of alteration to make it usable.
Perhaps give a suggestion; seems very good as it is.
- Plant Man gets the award for most awkward class by far. How does he even work?
Altfire is a wall jump and the rest should be self explanatory.
- Knight Man is... boring, to say the least. He needs something.
If you want a change on Knight Man give a suggestion.
- No Air Ballade. ...This is more of a personal issue than an actually relevant one.
Sure.
Alright, let's go with this.
I'm not going to talk about one by one balance, that's a whole different can of worms that I don't even want to touch with a 10 meter stick. What I want to talk about is the creative approach of this mod as a whole.
I admire the effort put into many of the classes. There's lots of details and features that are just very neat and offer things no one has actually tried before. There's the fact of coming up with ways to transfer abilities and attacks from 2D games into a 3D enviroment without changing them much AND making them useful for battle. Many HUDs actually look awesome and look like they belong to that character. The effort put into a seamless transfer of 2D abilities into a 3D enviroment is noticeable, and admirable...
...but sometimes VERY lacking and unintuitive in practice, to say the least. Many of them don't serve an actual purpose in a fight, save for being there and doing what they do. Looking pretty and awesome doing flips and teleports and wall clings and all sorts of things doen't matter if they don't serve to the purpose of fighting and winning. Many limitations to some attacks, regardless of being justified because of the source, are just incredibly unnecessary detriments in a battle. In some cases, there isn't even an attempt at differentiating copy weapons from class weapons, which means nothing really new is offered to the player while using those classes.
...but I'd like to think that the name of the mod is literally a self-conscious joke, or just a sort of statement towards those who question the design of some classes: it's all justified by the source. We're not here to make things out of the blue: we have a design, it's called "the games", and the plan is to make a class strictly from the design, and make it work. Except that's dumb, because the former will handicap the latter. In the grand scheme of this plan, the flaw of practicality is jarring in most executions. In fact, I dare say that this wasn't even about practicality in the first place...except I see all the effort put into making things work, to make them look as cool and faithful to the design as they are. I can't say that this wasn't made to be played: it was, but there are so many design flaws because of what I believe to be a stubborn creative limitation, that playing it and ejoying it all is incredibly hard because many of these cool things don't help you in a fight.
Almost every balance issue will probably not come without a core flaw regarding how the class "was designed". You just can't take the source and apply it to a 3D enviroment "without changing it much", and specially if you want this to be played: this is, by the way, a creative cornerstone of MM8BDM. Some consessions must be made in order to balance this mod. The way things look, most classes are and will be UP because of fruitless design limitations and unclear class roles. "xxxman does what xxxman did in MMsomething": that's not a class role, and "the source" is not a valid argument if you want this to be playable and enjoyable.
Triple A's, 5 stars, 10 out of 10, one of the best class mods I've played so far. Just fix it.
Have the will to let it be fixed, even if it means a schism from the source. It will be justified if people can play and enjoy it all.
We aren't going for class roles like YD classes; we are trying to allow all the robot masters to have a fair fight in most every situation.Then they aren't classes, they're slight variations of megaman.
Quote from: "Fyone"We aren't going for class roles like YD classes; we are trying to allow all the robot masters to have a fair fight in most every situation.Then they aren't classes, they're slight variations of megaman.
Sorry for the doublepost, but I tried out a handful of classes against a bunch of Mega Man bots to see how they fared in basic combat. These are just initial impressions that may change after fighting people:
Punk - I like the attempts to balance him, and the bounce cannonball adds some extra strategy to using it since you can move during the bounces. I love that, adds variety! One big issue, though, is his ammo consumption on his mainfire. It takes most of his ammo just to kill one opponent. He's actually kind of underpowered because of this. All he needs is an ammo buff (ammo consumption should be cut in half), and he should be perfect.
If we were to buff the ammo, he will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
Pharaoh Man - I like the versatility here! I found myself enterring a fray with a Pharaoh Wave, and finishing people off with Pharaoh Shots. Pretty sure that's the idea, so he seems to be a success. Nice damage balance, too. I never felt like I was wielding a nuke. Everything synergized just right. Kudos!
Thanks, and the reason we have the alt fire there is because we didn't want people to mid-charge it. Inside MM8BDM no one seems to use middle charges of weapons. It is also much easier to just click the altfire and have a half charged pharoah shot there.
Spark Man - had to see if he was improvement over vanilla classes' Spark Man, and I gotta say he definitely is! Spark Shock doesn't stun you for too long, and the giant spark is great for crowd control. Plus, this setup makes him a force to be reckoned with on his own map! Seems excellent so far!
Thanks, his HUD is going to be fixed in the next version due to the amount of requests.
Magnet Man - I'd have to fight people with him to make any kind of final verdict, but so far I'm in love. Pulling people toward you is so satisfying, and finishing them off with Magnet Missiles is great! My one qualm is you can't hit a group of people with Magnet Pull, but you can pull them all in. Less satisfying than it could be, and it can put you in danger. How much damage does that pull do, anyway? Sometimes it felt really strong, other times pretty weak.
If I remember, the alt fire is a four hit K.O.
Drill Man - Solid overall. Drill Bombs didn't feel as awkward as they do in vanilla classes, which makes him easier to pick up and play.
Uranus - Oh my dear sweet merciful god he is fun to play as! Who do I have to plant a big sloppy kiss on to thank them for this guy? Oh god...! I could play as this guy for hours!
Thanks, King Yamato made the whole class himself basically. I just fixed the mainfire a bit and added an altfire. I also changed King Yamato's altfire to inventory.
Jupiter - My favorite Stardroid is sadly underpowered here. His mainfire does piss-poor damage, and his alt feels like it should be powerful, but I'll be damned if I could get kills with the thing. Barely even managed to soften anyone up. Even when I fired it into a crowd it did little. Using him was the only match where I lost to the Mega-Bots.
He might be revamped in the next release.
Saturn - Also a blast to play, but his release attack feels like it barely does anything. What's the properties of this move? I only killed one bot by accident with it, and I don't think I ever even hit with it again. The versatility of his mainfire, though, is fun as hell.
If you miss with this attack, it freezes them. If you guys don't know, you can also slide with your altfire if your ring has been thrown.
Neptune - I don't know where I stand on this guy. He seemed strong enough, but just barely. Gonna have to use him against human opponents for a final verdict. His alt never seemed to hit, though.
One of the salt waters on his altfire may be aimed. We might buff the distance in the next version.
So far, this mod looks great! Obviously it's very much a "v1a", but I'm totally excited to see where this goes in the future, and damn if this mod doesn't feel polished as hell!
I'm having trouble gauging how long Jupiter's flight lasts. It really ought to have a stamina bar.
A lot of the Mega Man V aesthetics are really poorly done. Primarily, the weapon colors. Re-imagine them with the NES palette, don't try to perfectly mimic their artwork.
Break Dash's charging animation, while accurate to the Gameboy, clashes pretty badly with the rest of the charging weapons. It should really look more like anything that isn't Atomic Fire.
So the Neptune skin Chimeraman did dosent have the same back as the Neptune in the other screenshots have from MMV,
so i did this.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/856/0tvd.png)
If you guys likes this i would do Saturn without his Saturn Ring on.
I'm not sure what you mean; the horizontal secondary ammobars are showing fine which aren't showing?The secondary ammo bar actually shows ammo for the primary, at least that's what he's talking about.
If we were to buff the ammo, [Punk] will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
They are interpolating the incorrect ammo type;This ammo problem is fixed; also the source code was simply removed.
Allow me to cite Oil Man, where it is impossible to see the cooldown of his altfire. There is a bar drawn there, but it is not reading the data.
How about another example with Punk, same problem.
The second bar interpolates the first ammo type in your weapon, which is incorrect. I would cite code from the mod, but I cannot figure how this works for the life of me, so I will just continue to be ambiguous as possible.
EDIT because Beed:
KY hid the sources forever ago, I don't think he gave them to the authors of this mod, either.
Quote from: "!o! woohoo"If we were to buff the ammo, [Punk] will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
High fire rate? He fires almost as slow as Cloud Man, and his ammo bars take far too long to charge!
And herein lies the main issue I see with this mod; you're so afraid of "spammy" classes that half of the mod gets stuck having to wait for their ammo bars to recharge for fifteen years in order to do anything in a game all about fast-paced action. Flash Man being the prime example (why does his buster DRAIN AMMO)
...I should go through the mod and do a more thorough review of each class. Might give me a better idea of what to suggest for changes.
First off, let me just say you guys did a good job with these classes. All of them are pretty interesting, and most are enjoyable to play as. There are a couple of issues I have with them, though...
- Why does Crash Man's bombs still spear people instead of exploding on contact? I get that they're really strong and all when they explode and it'd probably make him pretty cheap, but I feel like I'm barely doing any damage when they just pass right through people, and it's hard enough as it is to hit someone with the explosion. Can you just buff the ripping damage on the bombs so they do a bit more?
Crash Man's ripping damage was buffed since the last version of KY I think it's a 5hko or something like that however I might buff it slightly so it makes cleaner damage.
- Quick Man's boomerangs feel a little slow. It's hard to get them to all hit someone, and with the damage they do, it's pretty difficult to kill anyone with them.
I definitely do not see this issue in the slightest; they even bounce off walls. I will still look into this but I don't think it's a problem.
- I have trouble with Magnet Man's missiles- their homing isn't great. I know it's dumb to just sit in a corner and spam them and get free kills, but the homing is so bad it's hard to hit anything with them unless you aim straight at someone. That and the Magnet Pull is pretty bad- the ammo doesn't stay up long enough to pull someone in and do damage.
The Magnet missiles are coded to home better the closer the person is to you. We can decrease how fast your ammo goes down for the altfire.
- Bright Man's and Flash Man's time stopping weapons sometimes just don't work. Don't know why, they just don't. (Unrelated note, Bright Pound is the best attack in the world.)
I've never had the time stop not work for me but I'll keep using Flash Man and Bright Man to see if it ever happens.
- Would you mind changing Dust Man's HUD to his buster? It's difficult to aim with that vacuum up top, and whenever you die it goes down screen and kind of sits there awkwardly. You can keep the vacuum thing for when he's actually firing- I'd just rather have the buster so I can aim a little better.
Not sure about this. We also don't have a buster HUD to use as of now.
- Dive Man's charge is bad, but you're fixing that already, so that's not a huge problem.
Sure.
- Star Man's waaaaaaay too slow when he's got the Star Crash up. Could you just up his speed a wee bit? Other than that, his damage and everything is good- it's just that he moves like a turtle when he's got it up, which makes it nearly impossible to hug someone with the Star Crash.
We'll probably not make him move as slow when it's up but he will still get slowed nonetheless.
- I have trouble hitting anyone with Napalm Man's bombs. I thought they were supposed to bounce at least once. His missile cooldown is also pretty long, but I guess the damage justifies it.
He won't have a cooldown for the altfire in the next version.
- Mercury shouldn't be invincible when he's blobbing around. It's pretty darn cheap, to say the least. Can't you just have it so that you can shoot the big blob?
He can't pick up health or damage you directly so it's not as good as you think.
- Terra's Spark Chaser is extremely annoying. It lasts for so long and it homes like crazy, making it easy for a Terra player to just spam the chaser while he's running around and score easy kills on damaged players. Have it do the whole stop-and-go thing less (like maybe three or four instead of what it is now)
This is fixed already; I have found it a problem as well.
- Centaur's teleport thing is ridiculous. Giving him invincibility and invisibilty for that long is not fair in the slightest. Tone down the ammo on that thing.
We'll lower how long it lasts.
- Knight is really boring. Can't you give him some other attack?
Give a suggestion; I see no problem with him at the moment.
- Freeze is also really boring. It takes him way too long to charge up to the full ammo bar just to freeze someone and then spam Freeze Cracker hoping they die. Why not give him an alt in which he points his hand up or whatever and shoots falling icicles to the ceiling? It'd give him a little variety.
The ammo bar will regen faster next version; no altfire though.
If I didn't say anything on other classes I thought they were good, or at least passable. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying it so far.
I think Crashman is the way he is to encourage players to jump around and hit them from above, like what Crashman's strategy is in-game.
Anywho, I did a record of all the (available) bots and whose weapons they had.
Cutman - Enker
Iceman - Punk
Elecman - Quint
Fireman - Ballade
Bombman - Cutman
Gutsman - Elecman
Enker - Bombman
Flashman - Crashman
Metalman - Gutsman
Crashman - Airman
Bubbleman - Metalman
Woodman - Heatman
Airman - Woodman
Heatman - Bubbleman
Quickman - Flashman
Quint - Quickman
(Mega Man 3: All have own weapons)
Punk - Pharaohman
Toadman - Brightman
Brightman - Gravityman
Pharaohman - Ringman
Ringman - Dustman
Dustman - Skullman
Skullman - Diveman
Diveman - Drillman
Drillman - Toadman
Ballade - Gyroman
Waveman - Darkman
Starman - Knightman
Gravityman - Crystalman
Gyroman - Napalmman
Crystalman - Stoneman
Napalmman - Chargeman
Stoneman - Waveman
Chargeman - Starman
Windman - Saturn
Flameman - Uranus
Blizzardman - Neptune
Plantman - Pluto
Tomahawkman - none
Yamatoman - none
Knightman - Mars
Centaurman - none
Sunstar - Blizzardman
Mercury - Windman
Venus - Flameman
Terra - Blizzardman
Mars - Plantman
Jupiter - Tomahawkman
Saturn - Yamatoman
Uranus - Mercury
Neptune - Venus
Pluto - Terra
The class is on the left, and whose weapon they have is on the right.
If we were to buff the ammo, he will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
Quote from: "!o! woohoo"If we were to buff the ammo, [Punk] will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
High fire rate? He fires almost as slow as Cloud Man, and his ammo bars take far too long to charge!
And herein lies the main issue I see with this mod; you're so afraid of "spammy" classes that half of the mod gets stuck having to wait for their ammo bars to recharge for fifteen years in order to do anything in a game all about fast-paced action. Flash Man being the prime example (why does his buster DRAIN AMMO)
...I should go through the mod and do a more thorough review of each class. Might give me a better idea of what to suggest for changes.
Random suggestion I just thought of; shouldn't Needle Man's mainfire stop his fall when he's in the air? Also, Gemini Man's clone should also mirror your jumps as well as your other movements to make it both more canon, and more useful.
Needleman used to stop in the air when he shot his main fire but it felt awkward so we removed it. We will try our best to see what we can do with Gemini.Quote from: "!o! woohoo"If we were to buff the ammo, he will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
Yes, but I think you might be overdoing it here. Again, in a real firefight he tends to run completely out of ammo, and since his Screw Crusher stops the charge on his cannonball ammo when used, he can't make up for it by synergizing his two attacks. The only way he's really effective here is to enter a fracas with both meters charged, cannonball his way in, and pick off survivors with Screw Crushers. In a fair fight, his high ammo consumption combined with low damage for a single projectile with moderate speed (a 5HKO) gives him a big disadvantage. I like that you gave it finite ammo, and slowed the projectile speed down from the way overpowered vanilla classes Punk, but he still needs a tweak to make him perfect. As it stands, he may not be spammy, but he's not much of an offensive threat without the cannonball either.Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"Quote from: "!o! woohoo"If we were to buff the ammo, [Punk] will be very spammy and would easily get kills in deathmatch. You have to remember his shot already has a high fire rate.
High fire rate? He fires almost as slow as Cloud Man, and his ammo bars take far too long to charge!
And herein lies the main issue I see with this mod; you're so afraid of "spammy" classes that half of the mod gets stuck having to wait for their ammo bars to recharge for fifteen years in order to do anything in a game all about fast-paced action. Flash Man being the prime example (why does his buster DRAIN AMMO)
...I should go through the mod and do a more thorough review of each class. Might give me a better idea of what to suggest for changes.
Yeah, if there's any major issue at this point I can find, this would be it. Several classes feel too handicapped to force them not to spam.
If you have some suggestions on which weapon colours need fixing sure but I don't see any problem with how they look atm.I really gotta give you guys kudos on this mod's aesthetics. Drillman and Enker in particular caught my attention. It's all really smooth and pleasing to look at.
Quote from: "Fyone"If you have some suggestions on which weapon colours need fixing sure but I don't see any problem with how they look atm.I really gotta give you guys kudos on this mod's aesthetics. Drillman and Enker in particular caught my attention. It's all really smooth and pleasing to look at.
I can't say this for the MMV content, though. The transition from a Gameboy environment to an NES environment was less than smooth. Mega Man's weapons in particular are just plain ugly. It may be that the color translations are outdated, pre-3v, but that aside, I aim to fix that.
This is more what I feel like would fit into the NES environment more smoothly:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4j2l7b.png)
I also intend to do this for the Stardroids, but as a primarily-Megaman user, these caught my attention more quickly.
And once again, as a primarily-Megaman user, there are a couple of replacement issues I have. As is, Item-2 replaces Duo Fist, Rush Jet Adapter replaces Bass Buster, Rush Power Adapter replaces Proto Buster, and Mega Arm replaces E-Tanks. This doesn't work very well. E-Tanks are a staple and they really ought not to be interfered with. I propose Duo Fist be aptly replaced with Mega Arm, and Item-2 scrapped altogether. Item-2 serves almost no purpose aside from, "Hey, look at me, I'm really fast!"
It's also worth noting that Megaman cannot slide when equipped with the Laser Buster or Arrow Buster.
Quote from: "Fyone"This is more what I feel like would fit into the NES environment more smoothly:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4j2l7b.png)
I also intend to do this for the Stardroids, but as a primarily-Megaman user, these caught my attention more quickly
Quote from: "Gumballtoid"Quote from: "Fyone"This is more what I feel like would fit into the NES environment more smoothly:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4j2l7b.png)
I also intend to do this for the Stardroids, but as a primarily-Megaman user, these caught my attention more quickly
This must be integrated.
Although something's not right...correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall copy weapon projectiles needing to be only colored with Mega Man's color scheme while using that weapon. In that case, Electric Shock and Bubble Bomb don't have that. Also, some color choices make the schemes too similar to some weapons:
Grab Buster: Rain Flush
Salt Water: Air Shooter and Water Wave
Electrick Shock: Slash Claw and Astro Crush
Deep Digger: Power Stone
Break Dash: Ballade Cracker
If you insist on keeping Item-2, it might be better if Mega Arm were to replace Duo Fist regardless. I just feel it more appropriate.
Also I promised Stardroids and I intend to give you folks Stardroids.
(http://i.imgur.com/ONcukza.png)
Saturn is pretty much perfect aesthetically as is, so he didn't really need anything.
PLEASE NOTE the change in yellow on Pluto and Mars.
Played with some human opponents. A couple things...
- Air Man needs to have a less annoying mainfire sound. Oh my god. Please get rid of the wind blowing sound (not the air shooter sound, the other one). it's noisy and horrible in a firefight.
Sure I guess.
- Found a bug: Saturn can't absorb Skull Man's buster shots, or Venus' homing bubbles.
Can't figure out the problem for this one since the shield isn't based on damagetypes.
- Saturn's release attack needs to be buffed in some way. After all the work you have to do to get it, all it does is Flash Man's attack with a weak spray of bullets from his feet (shouldn't they fire from the center of his body instead of his feet)?
At the moment the bullets each do 20 damage so you can theoretically kill the guy with one use since it creates 12 shots all around him though I'll make the spray of bullets fire from the center if you like.
- After seeing every facet to Yamato Man, I gotta say excellent touch. A simple attack with a handful of different ways to damage opponents? Clever!
:cool:
- Mars' mines should explode on contact. They're near useless as is.
They already explode on contact but I'll raise the hitbox I guess.
Uranus pillar break doesn't seem to work if the ceiling is uneven, which in a lot of stages it is going to be. Also, why does his altfire use ammo but his mainfire doesn't?I'm gonna code the pillar break to always fall from the same height in the next version and I'll make his altfire not use ammo.
Played a little more against bots since I found out the MM3 bots have their appropriate weapons. Are you guys trying to make the bots behave like their AI from the NES games? Because that's pretty damn awesome, a nice touch, and adds to the already high polish of this mod.
Yes, we plan to do that for all the bots and we'll more than likely bring back botrush after so.
Don't really have a problem with Quick Man's straight dash. It's basically a high speed tackle, which he was basically doing in MM2. Plus you can cancel it, anyway. What I DO have a problem with is his mainfire. Takes too long to stop and star seeking someone out. It's just a way less useful version of vanilla classes Quickman's alt at this point. Doc Robot's version is better!
Quickman's mainfire is better as a close range attack since you can hit people with all of the spread landing a clean 30 damage easier up close when they bounce off walls as well. We'll raise the homing capabilities in the next version.
Napalm Man's mainfire should bounce at least once before exploding.
I'm not sure about this. The mainfire is really supposed to be used as a more of a semi-close range attack so making them bounce would kind of kill that and once we remove the cooldown on the altfire he'll have a better long range alternative.
Does Mercury's Grab Buster do anything except damage (and that nice little easter egg of the victim losing an E-Can. Nice touch, by the way!)? Does it have some effect on copyweps I haven't seen yet?
The Grab Buster also drains health.
Bubble Man's Bubble Lead might need a bigger hitbox. I saw the bubble touch several opponents and do nothing. Also it's useless underwater since it starts at his head, and the low gravity makes it sail above the opponent if they're too close. Making Bubble Man's signature move virtually useless underwater seems like the definition of counterintuitive.
We can raise the hitbox slightly, and what would you suggest it do underwater then?
Gyro Man needs a RoF buff. He can't hold his own in an up-close firefight, even enough to make a break for it. Also, several times I flat out couldn't throw a gyro, even after the last gyro had long since gone.
This is fixed.
Hm. A few requests, to make it more "canon" (though these were likely thrown out due to balancing issues, but whatev).
-Snakeman should have his snakes immediately drop down. Perhaps this should be his main, and his current main should be his alt. Have the "drop down" snakes do more damage than the other one, but make sure that the "drop down" ones fire two at a time. This way, people would be encouraged to use this new main, but would still have the alt for areal enemies.
I'll see how useful this plays out and choose whether or not to add it.
-Needleman should fire two shots at a time, not four.
OK.
-Create some sort of alt attack animation for Tomahawkman, please. (You know, the "I whip my headdress back and forth" attack.)
Not worth the effort I think since making the MM8 sprites are gonna keep us pretty busy.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"- Found a bug: Saturn can't absorb Skull Man's buster shots, or Venus' homing bubbles.
Can't figure out the problem for this one since the shield isn't based on damagetypes.
Blizzardman's hitboxes are unexistant on his mainfire.[/color]
I'm not sure about this, I hit fine with him. I will see the vanilla blizzard attack and copy the radius if they aren't the same.
Part of Slashman's HUD is transparent, (why is it different, anyway?) and Timeman's HUD has a flat (one shade only) purple hand. Oilman has spring arms.
Where exactly in slashman's HUD transparent? Timeman's HUD may be fixed next version but isn't priority. Oilman is supposed to have spring arms.
EDIT: We didn't want to copy yd's HUD if that was what you meant by "different".
Oilman is supposed to have spring arms.
Quote from: "!o! woohoo"Oilman is supposed to have spring arms.
(http://megamanpoweredup.net/mll/graphix/profile_pic/profile_OilMan.png)
Erm...no?
That's a pipe.
If you need proof, go look at the model in Megaman Powered Up. Oilman's arm isn't a freaking spring.
I want to reiterate my earlier point about Punk. Played some online matches with him, and that high ammo consumption really does hurt him. He can't handle himself in a firefight with any Robot Master with infinite ammo, he's always at a disadvantage. If not completely in half, at least having him use 1/3 less ammo should help him out. Love that cannonball bounce, though. Adds new options for his signature attack!
punk shouldn't have a problem next version due to the ammo buff.
Also just wanted to say I love this Cloud Man. Way better than vanilla classes!
Thanks
As for Bubble Lead, what I think might help would be to have it fire slightly downward, so he doesn't end up lobbing bubbles over people's heads.
This is a somewhat stupid suggestion, but can you make an item for Magnet Man to attach to the ceiling for a bit? Besides the "it's canon" argument, I think it could be useful in helping Magnet Man gain more leverage to aim at people farther away from him better. It would give him a little more difference to Dive Man, who can hold his own when he's in close range with his Dive Charge and better homing missiles.
We were thinking about this and we might think about it harder.
You could have it use the same ammo that uses the Magnet Pull to avoid both being used at once, since Magnet Man never used it in conjunction with the pull.
(Also you should probably make it last for a really short time since I could imagine it getting annoying with high ceilings)
EDIT: There's no such thing as vanilla classes what are you talking about :|
Oh, yeah, right, Cloud Man. Could you slightly slow down his Thunder Bolt? It's not that it does ridiculous damage or anything, it's just a little difficult to dodge.
Hope you're at least aware of the fact that Junk Man is completely invincible with his shield up. Also I broke Uranus' HUD once. I think it was by alting when I had a block up, but I can't seem to replicate it.
Yamato Man could use a little buff. I think either his spears should be unaffected by gravity or receive a slight damage buff. Or both.Sure no gravity no damage buff though.
I know why; Skullman's shots penetrate shields [see: +THRUGHOST on the projectile, +GHOST on the absorption shield Saturn uses] and homing projectiles, as per core standard, use a native actor that kind of completely screws up hitboxes of non-player shootable actors, often negating collision completely and/or killing the actor. Summon a Megaman and fire a magnet missile at it.Alright thanks for this.
Honestly not sure how this can be fixed without making your projectile home by making a complex ACS script to do so. [See: Jax's old homing sniper]
Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?
Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.
Maybe replicate the damage they do to bosses, as opposed to how many hits it takes them to kill stage enemies...
EDIT: Almost forgot to mention this; Enker needs help. Badly. He takes too much damage when absorbing shots in his altfire stance. Many times, after using it, sure, you've got a full ammo bar to dish out a bunch of level 3 Mirror Busters, but you've also lost most of your health bar. This makes him utterly useless in LMS. Considering how long his stance lasts, he should have some significant armor during the stance, if not outright invincibility (though that might be going a little far). Also his Mirror Buster isn't powerful enough to warrant that level of damage.
Enker is already confirmed to be changed.
I still think Saturn's release attack is far too weak for how much energy is needed to even get it. After using it on bots, humans, and having humans use it on me, I can safely say there is little to no threat in this attack. His mainfire ring toss is more dangerous than this move, especially combined with the slide. He might as well not even use it. I think the best option is to buff the damage his shots do during this attack, making using it an actual reward with tangible results. At this point I think this attack might actually do less damage than his ring.
We may buff the damage or make it easier to use.
Dudes, I wasn't going to say anything until I could back up my previous opinion...
...but you need better sound effects. You can go ahead and use my sound effects from YDClasses if you want. Any of them, no regrets.
Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"Quote from: "Shmeckie"Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?
Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.
You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.
Anyway, I can't believe it took me this long to notice all the pickup weapons are removed from each stage and the reason why...
Oh my god I love you guys.
This mod makes me feel like a kid again!
One thing; the copywep classes' charged shots need nerfing. They do so much damage there's little point in even switching weapons. Several players got by just by spamming charged buster shots.
I feel like Mars' Photon Missile could use a little bit of a speed boost. It's just a smidge too slow to be very applicable when I could just pound away with his cherries. It's also unclear how exactly his mines regenerate. You drop them but you have to hit someone with it to get them back and they disappear really quickly??? I personally think they shouldn't disappear at all. It's difficult to lay traps when they don't last very long.
A single pea from Jupiter's mainfire does around 9 damage to an idle opponent. Naturally it's not very useful. It could do with a slight damage buff or a reduction on the spread.
Pharaohman's shots had a unique sprite in Megaman 4 that you should consider implementing.
(http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/Classic/MM4/Boss/8Boss/mm4_pharaohman.gif)
Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"Quote from: "Shmeckie"Quick question; will you have some of the Robot Masters healed/powered-up by copywep versions of weapons, like the games? Like Heat Man being healed by Crash Bomb, Freeze Man being healed by Freeze Cracker (and possibly posing), Turbo Man getting juiced by Thunder Bolt, etc.?
Do you have any idea how hard that would make this mod to balance
For the love of God, dev team, DON'T DO THIS.
You are aware I said copywep versions, right? I mean, you saw that, right? It's right in there. As in, not the Robot Master versions. The Crash Bomb Mega Man would shoot. Pretty simple.
We might implement resistances eventually but never outright healing. Also the charged shots already kill in three hits, four hits would be too low to even be a reliable weapon.
Oh no no no no no, no no no no no no no. You gotta know better, you shouldn't do that because then you would pretty much have to test everything on everything (plus, some Robot Masters do get hurt by their own weapons in the canon, some just deflect it, and very few are healed by them)...and I wasn't going to say anything about testing and stuff, but you guys need some more creativity to test your things, man. How do you miss Centaur?
What's the problem with Centaurman exactly?
Quote from: "Fyone"We might implement resistances eventually but never outright healing. Also the charged shots already kill in three hits, four hits would be too low to even be a reliable weapon.
Except the charged shots are large, travel at a good speed, AND do the damage they do on top of it. Especially Proto Man's charged shot. As it stands why would a Mega Man player ever use an acquired weapon when he can spam charged buster shots all day? Why bother with weaknesses when you've got a solid 3HKO from a large, fast moving projectile?
I'm definitely not making it 4hko I'm afraid but I will keep looking into this just to make sure.Quote from: "MusashiAA"Oh no no no no no, no no no no no no no. You gotta know better, you shouldn't do that because then you would pretty much have to test everything on everything (plus, some Robot Masters do get hurt by their own weapons in the canon, some just deflect it, and very few are healed by them)...and I wasn't going to say anything about testing and stuff, but you guys need some more creativity to test your things, man. How do you miss Centaur?
I'm not sure I follow why this would require such extensive testing. It's single instances of one class being effected by one specific weapon. Mega Man/Proto Man/Bass' Bubble Lead healing Bubble Man, or the copywep classes' Thunder Bolt supercharging Spring Man for a limited time, during which his Spring Punch would pull people towards it. Something like that.
And yeah, the ones that get hurt by their own weapon should be the same way. Maybe not the full 1HKO route with Metal Man, but at least the increase in damage a weakness would do.
I don't think we're going to do this.Quote from: "Fyone"What's the problem with Centaurman exactly?
I think he's referring to how exploitable the teleport is.
I've already stated that this is nerfed.
Says the file is not found...
Download here for v1b (http://static.best-ever.org/wads/justifiedclasses-v1b.pk3)
Here is a rough changelog:(click to show/hide)
For v1c or such, could you possibly combine the Pharoah Man main and alt, to make room for a new alt? Allow me to explain this, for the new mainfire (old main and alt with extra stuff) when you fire this without charging, it shoots the pharoah shot, if mid charged, it summons a not too power fire pillar, just one, in front of pharoah man, if fully charged, it's the pharoah wave. The new alt IS canon, and would make Pharoah Man much more interesting, i now shall request... The Pharoah Shield! This strange weapon takes inspiration from the arcade games, and is similar to the proto shield, but is used differently, here's how it works: When Pharoah Man holds right click, he summons a shield, it stays as long as he holds the button, but here's the catch: You cannot move or use the mainfire nor use an item while shielding, and it's only at the front, plus you have to hold for two seconds to get it to fully summon and block an attack. Just my thought. You don't have to do this, but it would make Pharoah Man canon in a different way, and add some new strategy to the character, you don't have to do the not so canon fire pillar, but it was just a thought.
Sooo, have the bots been fixed yet, or is that being saved for another version?
I'm not sure about this; it's going off canon when Pharaohman is already fine as is with what he has.do you mean it's not canon, or you mean i'm trying to stay canon?[/quote]
- The Mega Man Shadow Terminator class is a mess. His Shin Sakugarne completely blocks his vision when he uses it and is impossible to hit with. His obits are way off, and his alt is just a Gemini Laser with a different sound effect.I didn't know there were terminator classes until I read this. But, why R-Shadow? You have no dimensions in the mod why have him?
I have one question, wheres the neptune skin update! :mad:
Played Terminator against some Mega Man bots, found some issues...These will probably be fixed next version hopefully; thanks for pointing these out.
- If playing as a double-jump flying class, the Terminator class will retain the double jump flight.
- If the class has an item ability, the item will sometimes replace the Terminator class' item.
- The Mega Man Shadow Terminator class is a mess. His Shin Sakugarne completely blocks his vision when he uses it and is impossible to hit with. His obits are way off, and his alt is just a Gemini Laser with a different sound effect.
- This odd set of blocks appears around items:
(http://i57.tinypic.com/24fel1t.png)
-A quick question, if you play as a Stardroid, are you guaranteed to get Sunstar as your Terminator? Felt like it...
A couple of the Mega Man V sprites were still not modified. Off the top of my head, Pluto, Mars, and Mega Man's versions of their weapons are those in question. I'm perfectly willing to import them myself if it eases the workload (that is, put them in usable png files). I also wanted to do this for Mars and Pluto's skins to fix the yellow on them for team games, if that's okay.
If you post a list of the necessary Mega Man 8 sprites I might also stake claims in some of them.
One more thing I forgot; Sunstar's charge attack animation is borked (the one where he's supposed to turn into a ball and launch forward). When he launches, he's doing his firing animation, and THEN goes into the spinning animation while he's walking around.
More things:
- Time Man's obit is off. If he kills with Time Slow, it still says he killed you with Time Arrows.
Alright; fixed.
- Is there any way to incorporate the Wily Capsule into Terminator Wily? It'd both be more canon, and more fun! Plus it would add extra stuff to Wily, who seems to have the least amount of abilities of all the Terminators.
We'll see what we can do.
- Terminator mode is a blast with these boss classes!
Thanks!
- Is there any way to prevent the Dark Energy from getting stuck in a pit if the Terminator falls in?
Yeah, we'll probably fix that.
- Since Roll has multiple skins, shouldn't Ballade have skins for both his modes?
To get Ballade's other form you can pickup Super Adaptor it's kind of like Protoman and Breakman.
So i found some things.Thanks for pointing these out; they will be fixed.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
Roll's Beat is lost permanently if fired into a skybox or anything that eats a rolling cutter.All of these are fixed except the second one (because I have no idea what causes this since it hasn't happened to me yet) and the fourth one (because I don't think this is necessary but I will keep looking into this one).
Roll sometimes can juggle two or more Beats somehow.
Roll's Beat grabs health from teammates in team games.
I suggest Roll's Beat shouldn't grab big health from people unless Beat kills the player.
Damn, you guys are like machines! I wouldn't be surprised if we got the MM8 characters within next week or something! Just wondering, after the MM8 classes, what's next? Mega Man & Bass, or Mega Man 9? Also, any plans for the Wily Tower Masters?
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Damn, you guys are like machines! I wouldn't be surprised if we got the MM8 characters within next week or something! Just wondering, after the MM8 classes, what's next? Mega Man & Bass, or Mega Man 9? Also, any plans for the Wily Tower Masters?
I think that's bad content management. Releasing new things too often kind of raises up expectations from players, and alienates the previously released new content. You gotta let players sink in and fully experience the content you've just put out for a long enough time, and then release new things (of course, after making them and testing them as meticulously as possible).
On a different note, I've been noticing some few things this mod does. I am taking my time checking things, questioning choices, coming up with suggestions. Sooner or later, I'll start up putting out my suggestions and thoughts about this mod that one of you guys asked me for.
I think that's bad content management. Releasing new things too often kind of raises up expectations from players, and alienates the previously released new content. You gotta let players sink in and fully experience the content you've just put out for a long enough time, and then release new things (of course, after making them and testing them as meticulously as possible).
Quote from: "MusashiAA"I think that's bad content management. Releasing new things too often kind of raises up expectations from players, and alienates the previously released new content. You gotta let players sink in and fully experience the content you've just put out for a long enough time, and then release new things (of course, after making them and testing them as meticulously as possible).
Considering they're playing catch-up, and fixing balance issues, I'm all for the frequent updates. I'd rather get a patch in days that fixes problem glitches and borked characters than deal with grossly OP characters being exploited by tryhards online for months ruining everyone's fun, bugged characters, useless characters, etc. Like Jupiter; in the first release, he was so bad he simply could not hold his own. A few tweaks later, and now he's a contender, and people that like him can play as him and have a chance at doing well. And they didn't have to wait months of a character they like being useless.
If it was frequent total revamps, I'd be with you, but these are helpful fixes and small tweaks to root out bugs and fix slight balance issues (dealing with infinites, exploits, etc.), and all-in-all expanding the overall experience by polishing what's already there.
So apparently there's a nasty glitch with Skull Man. Similar to the Woodman glitch, he can have infinite shield, and mow people over with it. He's completely broken right now. Need a hotfix, stat. Also an infinite flight glitch with Wind Man. And on a smaller note, when Ballade uses his mines in his second form, he turns blue.
I have some things to say regarding the classes:
1: Can you change Gravity man/Gravity hold all together, it's annoying to play when getting flunged in the air 15 times a match
Personally I don't see a problem with it since it's not spammy and as a copywep needs lots of ammo to use; if you have a suggestion I will see what I can do.
2: Nerf quint a bit. The guy can rack up kills pretty fast and seems a bit too powerful for his own good.
I'm not sure about this; he already has an ammo bar and nerfing the damage would be too much since he lacks a long range attack.
3: Nerf or remove Wily's flame pillars. The pillars themselves seem to be a bit too powerful and can rack up kills by spam.
Alright.
4: Not sure if this is the right place to mention this but when someone falls into a pit, spike trap, death water or lava the sphere is unobtainable. Is there any way to fix this, like having the sphere warp into a random location after a certain amount of time.
Yes; this will hopefully be fixed next version or something.
5: I love the way you guys made Dustman. He is actually fun to play as and is useful compared to the others (not sure about KY but Classes dust is just useless)
Thanks!
Edit: forgot to mention but it seems like the Saturn skin/class doesn't seem to have any pain noises. Not sure of it is just me or the mod itself, but I should mention it.
Yes, Saturn, Stoneman, Darkman4, Springman, and Venus don't play sounds at the moment but they will next version hopefully.
Another Terminator bug; Terminators are unaffected by the springs in Spring Man's stage, which means if they fall in a spring pit they're basically trapped.This will probably be fixed along with the other terminator stuff.
A few issues;
- Dark Man 3's HUD is hideous. it's huge, and looks like it's pointing up in the corner, not straight ahead. It's bulky and poorly drawn.
Yeah, it's hard to make I might redo it myself but I heard Caprice said he's gonna make a new one.
- Dark Man 3's alt takes too long to recharge. Way too long. It's pretty much useless.
Dark Man 3's altfire acts like Shademan's where it stuns for a long time (about half as long as time stopper)
- Dark Man 2 is actually usable! Whoo! Another class improved from vanilla classes!
Thanks!
- When Dark Man 3 is frozen, his skin changes to Dark Man 1.
OK, I'll fix this.
- Dark Man 1's attacks feel awkward. His main and alt fires should be switched.
Sure they'll be swapped.
Once again looked at the bots. They're getting closer, I can say that much. These are the ones that still have problems:Thanks for this list.
Gutsman (no weapon)
Timeman and Oilman (no bots)
Dustman (doesn't give out weapon)
Jupiter (no weapon)
(Mega Man 7 bots still need to be added)
So i found there was more stoneman frames that was in the wrong way and it was this.Alright, this will be fixed.(click to show/hide)
In delving further into it, Mars' Photon Missile, bullets and mines weren't fixed either (in the case of the Photon missile, the translations) and also some Terra stuff.
What exactly is wrong with these; I'm pretty sure I changed the colours to yours.
Also I'm curious how you came to decide copyweps were overpowered. With the exception of Protoman, I myself would argue they're a bit underpowered.
I didn't mean the classes Megaman, Protoman and Bass were OP I meant their weapons they obtain from the Robot Masters/Stardroids were OP.
The missiles are Mega Man's version. Translating them to Mars' colors (198 = 220, 215 = 229) would alleviate that.Alright I fixed all the MMV aesthetic issues in the next version now thanks for all the help. I understand what you mean with the thing about being picked off by another player but at the moment the weapons are very overpowered they are all well stronger than the bosses' weapons which if I made it so that you keep your weapon when you die you would eventually be unstoppable with the damage output gain and variety of weapons to choose from (i.e. weaknesses etc.) We can remove the giant ammo capsules if you like but I simply can't nerf the rate of fire on the dashing and sliding because then personally they don't feel legitimate anymore. Also Oil Man's colours are also fixed next version.
The mines are red, which used to be on Mars but was since replaced with a more apt orange, while the bullets are that same orange with an outline. The sprites I sent would alleviate those two.
I gave Terra's alt and his teleport effects a touch-up, as well as an icon overhaul because quite frankly I don't know what the current one is supposed to be.
I feel like the weapons would be overpowered if you could just pick them up, but you have to actually work for them. Typically if you emerge from a fight victorious, with a shiny new weapon, you get picked off by another player, since you're too low on health to put up a fight. You don't even get to use your new weapon. By getting to keep your weapon for the rest of the round you're better off when your armor and mobility are sub-par compared to the rest of the competition.
At the same time I think it would be wise to outright remove the giant ammo capsules found in place of weapons. It just feeds the player further and is contributing to any feeling of being overpowered. Also the sliding/dashing ought to have a nerf in the rate of fire department. It might be canon, but it gives the copyweps unnecessary mobility and doesn't let slow classes have a remotely fair chance at nailing them. It's good in combat for evasion, but not for mobility. That's just too much.
I forgot to mention but Oil Man's colors hurt my eyes and still resemble an MS Paint job. I feel he ought to match the core's Oil Man.
The big hitbox is a detriment as much as it is an advantage. Yes, it's easy to hit with. it's also easy to hit the ground or nearby obstacle and have it fizzle out before hitting anything.
actor FireStormO
{
...
Height 4
Radius 4
...
States
{
Spawn:
FRMT ABC 2 A_Explode(18,48,0)
FRMT ABC 2 A_Explode(19,48,0)
...Actually, it's smaller than a mega buster shot and does damage through explosions.
So i found out a other thing again.(click to show/hide)
Break Man can do a lot of damage, with quite a fast rate of fire and, as a buster, no penalty. That needs fixed.Thanks for these suggestions.
The penalty is that he can't heal, I'll see if this is an issue nonetheless.
Saturn ought to be locked in the direction he's facing when he absorbs, so as to avoid being invincible 90% of the time. Either that, or a greater ammo consumption.
I'll greater the ammo consumption.
So is there a reason why Centaur Man can suddenly now use Blizzard Attack?A GRAVE ERROR!
I feel like this mod needs some balancing.(not a lot, though) Mind if I voice my opinion? If you do want to hear, open up ze spoiler. I'll just list like 2 examples since I can only think of two and am sleepy.(click to show/hide)
Can I bring one complaint to the table here, even though I have several that'll simply get ignored anyway?
Can you people just give this mod some consistency?
There are flying classes throughout this mod that use a double jump for their flight activation...meanwhile Tenguman uses an item to do this. While it makes sense that it was changed to an item because of how it functions, it still might leave certain players confused as to how to use the class. I would recommend either changing flight on classes like Shademan or Jupiter to introduce more consistency and hopefully make these classes less ambiguous to use, or give Tenguman the same mechanic that Shademan and Jupiter recieved. Ideally, all these classes should operate similarly in how their mechanics function and it honestly pains me to see this level of inconsistency anywhere.
This critique is getting completely ignore like every other instance of criticism that has grazed this mod.
So Duo can break maps now apparently, any chance you guys are gonna fix that? Also maybe change his bar bar color from Napalm Bomb colors to Duo Fist colors?
Quote from: "Beed28"So is there a reason why Centaur Man can suddenly now use Blizzard Attack?A GRAVE ERROR!
If you mean the bots, they are still not fixed.
Flameman's alt dosent make the oil burn.
When you use Swordman's alt then spect his legs will still be ingame.
Stonefunk, your logic is flawed simply because they added a gear attack to Metalman this version.
Shade and Jupiter's flight act like extra floating jumps (you get 5 "jumps" each, and they only propel you upward before floating you down slowly).Unless that's a change you have for a future version (which sounds horrible if it is) or something breaks/changes online Jupiter and Shade actually have free flight using the fly up and down keys when using the double jump flight.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Shade and Jupiter's flight act like extra floating jumps (you get 5 "jumps" each, and they only propel you upward before floating you down slowly).Unless that's a change you have for a future version (which sounds horrible if it is) or something breaks/changes online Jupiter and Shade actually have free flight using the fly up and down keys when using the double jump flight.
I just want to say that Magnet Man having low armor is ridiculous. I don't know if it's some personal grudge against the guy, but he has been given the short end of the stick way too many times:Personally I thought he may be close to OP and a few others thought so too. If others agree I'll give him a buff though. Also the ceiling thing I really liked and we'll probably add it in once we have made some sprites.
-Missiles that barely home in on targets and don't deal great damage
-An alt that requires you to be close to targets and also isn't very reliable
-Lower Armor than normal
I know you guys hate Magnet Missiles, but for Pete's sake, the man's pretty darn bad. Make him normal armor, give him the ceiling thing, just do something for him.
Quote from: "Magnet Dood"I just want to say that Magnet Man having low armor is ridiculous. I don't know if it's some personal grudge against the guy, but he has been given the short end of the stick way too many times:Personally I thought he may be close to OP and a few others thought so too. If others agree I'll give him a buff though. Also the ceiling thing I really liked and we'll probably add it in once we have made some sprites.
-Missiles that barely home in on targets and don't deal great damage
-An alt that requires you to be close to targets and also isn't very reliable
-Lower Armor than normal
I know you guys hate Magnet Missiles, but for Pete's sake, the man's pretty darn bad. Make him normal armor, give him the ceiling thing, just do something for him.
Yeah, Magnet Man really shines in TLMS.Quote from: "Fyone"Quote from: "Magnet Dood"I just want to say that Magnet Man having low armor is ridiculous. I don't know if it's some personal grudge against the guy, but he has been given the short end of the stick way too many times:Personally I thought he may be close to OP and a few others thought so too. If others agree I'll give him a buff though. Also the ceiling thing I really liked and we'll probably add it in once we have made some sprites.
-Missiles that barely home in on targets and don't deal great damage
-An alt that requires you to be close to targets and also isn't very reliable
-Lower Armor than normal
I know you guys hate Magnet Missiles, but for Pete's sake, the man's pretty darn bad. Make him normal armor, give him the ceiling thing, just do something for him.
OP, specially in TLMS.... :/
Sorry but when we added the Genesis Unit and MM8 the bot order messed up so the weapons are messed up for the bots. Next release with terminator fixes and other bugs we'll have the bots fixed as well.I honestly don't see how that happens, it is as easy as putting in there name for the class they use, that will tell them to use their own class and therefore their own weapons.
The download link for the newer version's down, at least for me.
(We want the bots to fight like they did from the Megaman games to an extent.)
The AI of the bots are still not completely sound yet, I still have to polish them; which is why I stated that the bots are not finished. Also we called it a hotfix due to the fact that we released it two days after the original release due to game-breaking bugs.Quote from: "Fyone"(We want the bots to fight like they did from the Megaman games to an extent.)
I understand your reasoning behind this...but they are kind of disastrous to fight. [See: Megaman 3 bots] You see, when you give a bot with precoded AI and then force recoded AI on top of that, things go downhill quick and makes the bot nearly impossible to fight. You should probably think in terms of how the Robot Master would fight in a 3D environment before you make them jump around like frogs, regardless of how much I like the detail of them fighting like the NES games...it just doesn't work.
Also I wouldn't address each patch made as a "hotfix" but instead as a sub-version. If you're going to patch a large amount of changes without adding classes, I would recommend releasing it as a subversion [ie. v2b, v2c, etc.]
An odd thing happens sometimes when you kill players in that a ghost of their player classes' skin is left behind for a while. It happened a lot with me playing as Magnet Man, though I also saw it happen to Astro Man and Bass.I believe the 'ghost' player glitch is fixed in the next release hopefully. As for Magnet Man's pull attack, if you mean in chasecam it does this I'd say never trust chasecam otherwise I'll check to see if it occurs on the outside.
Here's a picture. Notice how there is no player name on the bottom or an ally tag above Magnet Man's head (I was on Wily's team):(click to show/hide)
The Astro Man is also a ghost just so you know
EDIT: Also I think you guys messed up the back sprites for Magnet Man's pull attack- they seem to switch between his Magnet Missile fire frame and one of the Magnet Pull ones.
there needs to be something added to quint that makes him fall faster if he's in the air too long scince he flies under waterWe'll make it so that it checks whether he's underwater and then make him drop faster.
Really liking this version of classes, the reworks to some of the old mechanics are nice. Still trying to wrap my head around what certain classes are actually doing though, is there documentation somewhere on what does what or is it just play and learn?I think there's a huge spoiler thing in the first post that explains, though i may end up being wrong.
In CTF, when someone playing Grenade Man grabs the flag and changed to Alien, they can dash one more time, at any given time. But only once.
I'm getting crashes in this version. It happens on Magnet Man's stage, with me being Search Man, and my opponents being Proto Man, Magnet Man, Hard Man, and Spark Man.
there still is quite a bit of unbalanced stuff in this
One odd thing I've noticed playing as Aqua is that rarely, opponents apparently somehow take control of my water columns. I don't know how or why but in the middle of a firefight I've been damaged and killed by them and the obituary shows that a non-Aqua class killed me with a water column. The most recent example I can remember is a Bright somehow commandeering it and killing me with it.
Quote from: "Isaac940"One odd thing I've noticed playing as Aqua is that rarely, opponents apparently somehow take control of my water columns. I don't know how or why but in the middle of a firefight I've been damaged and killed by them and the obituary shows that a non-Aqua class killed me with a water column. The most recent example I can remember is a Bright somehow commandeering it and killing me with it.
I don't know what you guys did since I haven't used the current version, but fix it as fast as possible.
Actually, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should actually take time to test things before you release them. I'll admit, I've made quite a few bugs in my own work, but that's because it's hard to find bugs with only one person testing. Here, you have a whole dev team to test their stuff, or you could invite some extra people if the testing isn't efficient enough at finding bugs.
And this doesn't only go with bugs, you also need to test balance. (also something I, myself, have messed up on, but I don't want to see my mistakes repeated by others anyways)
Actually, I don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should actually take time to test things before you release them. I'll admit, I've made quite a few bugs in my own work, but that's because it's hard to find bugs with only one person testing. Here, you have a whole dev team to test their stuff, or you could invite some extra people if the testing isn't efficient enough at finding bugs.
And this doesn't only go with bugs, you also need to test balance. (also something I, myself, have messed up on, but I don't want to see my mistakes repeated by others anyways)
There's something weird about the coding of this.Yes, this is how we coded it; it's all in ACS so we're fixing it for the next update.
I looked in the KEYCONF file, and moved the three new classes (the Genesis unit) to the end of the batch of classes, and after I did that, the bots worked fine.
However, for some reason, the colors of the bots were then off.
Looking at the weapons for the classes, I found that they didn't seem to include anything about changing the colors of the classes, so I assumed that it was all in WColors. However, since that's soley in ACS and not in an editable file, I won't be able to possibly move things around to make it all work.
So, the order that the classes are added changes what weapons the bots have and the colors of the classes.
When can we expect the terminator update? I really want to play with bots using their correct weapons.Not sure, but I hope in a week or less.
So options 2 and 3 are the same? If so, this poll is bad. Really bad.
Forcing people to use a specific class to make extra damage seems like an awful way to go about it, IMO.
So does the third option concern RMs like Flashman who was weak to blades AND bombs? There's very few RMs like that, so that option seems to be very similar to the second. Just trying to make sure I'm understanding this right.You are exactly right, we only have those two options because a lot of people were arguing about RMs with 1 weakness would have an advantage so we decided to have both.
So options 2 and 3 are the same? If so, this poll is bad. Really bad.They are not the same, as stated above.
Forcing people to use a specific class to make extra damage seems like an awful way to go about it, IMO.
I thought using special weapons against other RMs's weakness was like one of the main pillars of Megaman? .-.Using special weapons against other RMs' weakness WAS one of the main pillars of Megaman yes, which is why we're having this poll to see what people prefer.
So options 2 and 3 are the same? If so, this poll is bad. Really bad.
Forcing people to use a specific class to make extra damage seems like an awful way to go about it, IMO.
I'm not going to vote for the poll, but I liked the second option the most because it is the most balanced weakness solution compared to the rest; it is also the most simplistic. Yes, the first option can also be balanced, but then we are going to have to make up some weaknesses for robot masters that were only in one game (MM8). The last option is the most canon, but it gives disadvantages to a lot of robots with lots of weaknesses. For example, Air man, who is weak to Metal Blade, Atomic Fire, and Air shooter.
Quote from: "!o! woohoo"I'm not going to vote for the poll, but I liked the second option the most because it is the most balanced weakness solution compared to the rest; it is also the most simplistic. Yes, the first option can also be balanced, but then we are going to have to make up some weaknesses for robot masters that were only in one game (MM8). The last option is the most canon, but it gives disadvantages to a lot of robots with lots of weaknesses. For example, Air man, who is weak to Metal Blade, Atomic Fire, and Air shooter.
I recall hearing from someone you were the main coder on this thing.
Also, doesn't making a poll then choosing regardless of votes kinda defeat the point
Sheep is weak to Rebound Striker able to bounce into him, lets give him Gemini Laser as well. If Dos was in this I'd say Sonic Wave too as it is the only other weapon like this, but you guys can try to figure out another weapon then.Noise Crush fits with what you were thinking of, but regardless.
how about you useWe'll add no weaknesses as an option in the poll, but your statement doesn't really make much sense since you're saying it'll be easier to counter class if there are few weaknesses for a class but in reality it's the contrary. The more weaknesses a class has the more chances you'll be able to counter class and the more options you'll have. If I'm reading right, you're saying you will automatically know at least one weapon a class is weak to if there are a few number of weaknesses but why wouldn't that be true with say 10 weaknesses for one class?
NO WEAKNESSES
(http://i.imgur.com/iSTduhe.gif)
No seriously if you're only gonna give 1-3 weaknesses for each class then you've just established pure and simple counter classing at its best
"Using Toad? Better use Drill"
"Oh shit now he's Dive I'm gonna Skull"
"Dust pls I'll just use Ring"
etc. etc. etc.
if a class has so few weaknesses then it's a no-brainer to use counter classing since you automatically know at least one weapon they're weak to (if you've got a good grasp on weapon charts)
I'd just eliminate weaknesses all together since if they're implemented in any of these ways it would essentially scream counter classing and you really don't need it in the mod anyway
I'd just eliminate weaknesses all together since if they're implemented in any of these ways it would essentially scream counter classing and you really don't need it in the mod anyway
No he said removing them allWhere did I say that he did not say that? I don't get it?Quote from: "Magnet Dood"I'd just eliminate weaknesses all together since if they're implemented in any of these ways it would essentially scream counter classing and you really don't need it in the mod anyway
The issue is simple. Have weaknesses for canon but less fairness ; or not have them for less canon and more fairness. Canon or balance in that case can't be mixed together, so it should be up to the players' decision. Then I'd propose to keep it democratic. Personally I'd say no weaknesses at all. So, preserving the balance.
We'll add no weaknesses as an option in the poll, but your statement doesn't really make much sense since you're saying it'll be easier to counter class if there are few weaknesses for a class but in reality it's the contrary. The more weaknesses a class has the more chances you'll be able to counter class and the more options you'll have. If I'm reading right, you're saying you will automatically know at least one weapon a class is weak to if there are a few number of weaknesses but why wouldn't that be true with say 10 weaknesses for one class?
He said introducing the weaknesses would basically force players to want to play certain classes just because they counter another class. Hard counters are not fun; they don't balance well, and don't have counter play.Can you further explain this because I still don't completely understand it, wouldn't less weaknesses make counter-classing harder to do since you only have one option to counter the class?
In my opinion, keeping the weaknesses as-is the best path this mod can take in terms of balance.Wouldn't that still include hard counters?
What you guys are suggesting is basically the YD Classes "guessing game" approach to weaknesses we want to avoid. Besides, several weaknesses apply for very specific reason to that Robot Master and weapon (for instance, Knight Man was weak to Yamato Spear not because it had a pointed tip, but because the Yamato Spear itself was the only weapon capable of piercing his shield).Oh, not at all, I was just adding onto the ideas brought up for Sheep Man. As you said yourself:
We're trying to keep this as simple and canon as possible.I still think the third option is the best. It seems the most intuitive. With option 1, you'd end up with Wood Man being weak to Atomic Fire, Flame Sword, and Triple Blade. With option 2, it'd just be Atomic Fire. With option 3, it'd be Atomic Fire, Metal Blade, and Air Shooter.
No weaknesses is a terrible idea, I think. First of all, it loses the feel of this being a Mega Man FPS.This^. How can this be a Megaman classes mod trying its damndest to be canon without weaknesses? Why would you choose no weaknesses in a Megaman mod at all, let alone one who's motto is CANON?
Here's a crazy left field idea, why not have some kind of server option where weaknesses are turned on or off, you know to please both crowds.I'm all for this.
Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't change weaknesses on the spot so we wouldn't be able to make a server command for it.
Simply put, you could give players a power protections based on a custom cvar for the server, but would it be worth creating 3 different power protections per class?First off, the number of weaknesses hasn't been decided, with 3 being the utmost maximum (and looking at the polls I don't think there's gonna be 3 per class).
Also let's be real here, name one instance where server hosts actually used custom cvars.
Quote from: "Lego"Simply put, you could give players a power protections based on a custom cvar for the server, but would it be worth creating 3 different power protections per class?First off, the number of weaknesses hasn't been decided, with 3 being the utmost maximum (and looking at the polls I don't think there's gonna be 3 per class).
Also let's be real here, name one instance where server hosts actually used custom cvars.
Secondly, if the server doesn't use the custom cvar, how is that the devteam's problem? If the cvars aren't being used and you want them to be used, then make your own server! No one's stopping you.
Actually, I don't think we need to worry about it not being Megaman enough without weaknesses. Everything else is there, and having no weaknesses will invite people to actually use other classes rather than sticking to something that has very few to not be stressing.Thats why I suggested tossing in extra weaknesses so everyone only has 3 total. That way no one gets the short end of the stick with a bucket load of weaknesses while Ring is running around with only Pharaoh Shot good against him.
Actually, I don't think we need to worry about it not being Megaman enough without weaknesses.
Buster only runs are a thing.But the main focus of the franchise. Sure you can play it without using special weapons but it was made with the idea of using them in mind.
but is there an official game where the robotmaster beat each other with weakness? No...It was called Megaman Powered Up, where if you played as a robot master you were still good against the boss their weapon beat and weak to the one that beat them.
Quote from: "Emmanuelf06"but is there an official game where the robotmaster beat each other with weakness? No...It was called Megaman Powered Up, where if you played as a robot master you were still good against the boss their weapon beat and weak to the one that beat them.
Like Fire did better against Oil but took more damage from Ice. So, yea, it is cannon.
Power Fighters/Battle isn't part of the Canon Megaman series, it's a spin-off game.Actually they are considered part of cannon. Just as much as M&B is.
Both confirmed to after 8. But both made before 8. Fighters ending for Duo mentions how you find out who he is in 8.
Then Duo Fist shouldn't be a thing in this mod, cause he never used it outside of Power Fighters.
But we are willing to take moves from other games like Power Fighters/Battle if the Robot Master doesn't have enough viable moves.
*glares at Plant Man* SERIOUSLY, what is his alt for? I call it skipping through the flowers.Wall kicking
We didn't use that one because of the size, we know that the skin needs some work but until we have a better one we're gonna use this one. This one is closer to his actual size if he was in the 8-bit Classic style anyways.
Quote from: "Fyone"We didn't use that one because of the size, we know that the skin needs some work but until we have a better one we're gonna use this one. This one is closer to his actual size if he was in the 8-bit Classic style anyways.
Use the scale function in the actor to change sprite size.
Which weakness option was chosen? I looked at the 2 most recent pages but couldn't find it
wow that was quick, what was fixed. also fantastic job on Botrush, pretty much the most fun with bots for once.Some weakness issues crashed servers and there were also some 'Hold' state issues we forgot to fix. I'm glad you like botrush!
The Duo bot doesn't seem to be able to use his charge shot like Protoman can.We will fix this next version
I thought the botrush script source was removed, though?King Yamato gave us the Botrush script source. Also I forgot to say you have to have sv_allowbotclasses on.
Well, it might explain why it's so glitchy. Doesn't explain how he managed to get the Stardroids to appear in it, though. :?
Some more notes on BotRush:
1:Venus's bot is broken similar to duo
2: The 7 masters appear hidden bots for some reason
3: Auto's bot appears as brightman for some reason4:bright and break are cheap donkeys
again good job on this. Can't wait to see what is to come from this mod.
I think Search Man's Homing Sniper needs a slight rework (other than that he's awesome). When both crosshairs die into a wall, he should just automatically fire some standard missiles as if you'd let go the mouse button (or was out of ammo).
I thought this was already implemented if not I'll add it in.
Also, I managed to kill a bot a few times with just the crosshairs themselves.
They do 1 damage each so I don't really have much to say.
EDIT: Also, tone down the drilling on Drill Man's bot. It's not fun for me if he spends half of the fight invincible.
Just like in the game ;)
I mean, when Drill Man comes back up again, he sometimes immediately jumps and starts diving again when he's still in mid-air from coming back up from underground.
He did that exactly in the game a couple times but I'll lower it anyways I guess
EDIT: Oddly enough, Hard Man rarely seems to use his quake stomp attack considering how often he used it in Mega Man 3.
Since it's not dodge-able to an extent we made it rare
The &Bass version being released, are there any plans for the weapons of Tengu and Astro? A reasonable option to me would be to give Tengu Blade/Tornado Hold with 50% of chance each, since both these classes are a mix of the MM&B and MM8 versions. Astro Crush could have a lower probability of obtaining due to its nature (10% ACrush, 90% CVision, for instance ; that way Astro Man hunting would be a thing). Just proposing this here
And what about Genesis Unit, will they use the core skins?
The &Bass version being released, are there any plans for the weapons of Tengu and Astro? A reasonable option to me would be to give Tengu Blade/Tornado Hold with 50% of chance each, since both these classes are a mix of the MM&B and MM8 versions. Astro Crush could have a lower probability of obtaining due to its nature (10% ACrush, 90% CVision, for instance ; that way Astro Man hunting would be a thing). Just proposing this hereI don't like the idea of putting luck into getting A. Crush because of how strong it is no matter how small the probability of getting it is, but T. Blade and T. Hold will most likely be a 50% chance yes. As for the core skins we will be using Hyper Storm H and Mega Water S without a doubt but we will be making a few edits to the Buster Rod G skin most likely and if not we will just simply use the core skin. We will also be using the new sprites introduced into the core as well.
And what about Genesis Unit, will they use the core skins?
Also, will astro be able to use his flunky laser?We tried to make Astroman resemble both the Megaman 8 and Megaman & Bass versions already, if you can think of a way to include the laser in his present moveset then by all means but I don't really think it would be that useful of a weapon by the end even if it is included.
I'd like to report some bug a player told me about.
In the Justified Classes DM server, when someone uses Item 2 it crashes everyone out.
Yeah, I'm guessing you've already been made aware of the very interesting effect this mod has on Burner Man's stage right now (though it certainly makes it more accurate to the actual stage from MM&B). I noticed a few other oddities when I was messing around.These will all be fixed in the hotfix.
-Some of the ammo bars don't look right. Is Aqua Man's supposed to be green?
-None of the &Bass weapons have ammo bars. I only tested Lightning Bolt and Spread Drill, but that should be enough to soundly say all eight have the same issue.
-The conveyor belt in Dynamo Man's stage outpaces Quick Man, but just barely, and only if you don't use his boost. That's not a bug, I just think it's amusing.
I'm very eagerly anticipating the next iteration of this mod. It wouldn't be much of an exaggeration to say I was excited for v4 solely for the chance to use the robot masters in Justified Classes. Keep up the good work.
Hoping the next update will be to add the MM&B classes. and maybe sort of revamp or make the genesis unit classes a bit more accurate to how they work in the campaign. like Buster Rod G having to stop when shooting his staff forward but it has a good reach and does some fairly good damage. also. it would be cool to think of a way for them to work together in modes like TDM. where if all 3 of the genesis unit's members are on the same team they can pull off their attack formations from the boss fight in some way. now that would be awesome.The next update will be a hotfix to fix the compatibility issues that we missed, after that hotfix then the MM&B classes will be added.
Genesis unit's music that you guys have in this mod should be removed it replaces thier stage's music.Alright we will remove the songs, we aren't changing the item sprite though since there's no reason to in the slightest since the face looks more closer to the Wily Wars anyways.
Also HyperStormH's item sprite should be replaced with the core's HyperStormH face.
FTX6004 who is that in your avatar?Not him, but it's Agahnim from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Pretty obscure game, not shocked you've never heard of it.
Not him, but it's Agahnim from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Pretty obscure game, not shocked you've never heard of it.
At this point I would refrain from posting anymore compatibility bugs since all of these bugs are most likely fixed next version (which is meant to be released today). Frost Man's Ice Wave was never meant to climb walls since it didn't climb walls in MM8. I'm not really sure what you mean with the Auto thing though, perhaps elaborate?Quote from: "BlackEmperorJet"FTX6004 who is that in your avatar?Not him, but it's Agahnim from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Pretty obscure game, not shocked you've never heard of it.
Also, a few things I forgot about or didn't notice, though I understand the last update was just to make it compatible with v4a.
-Proto Man's shield seems to be blue. At least, that's how it looks in the singleplayer mirror.
-Frost Man's Ice Wave doesn't climb up walls.
-Auto's bazooka exists under Dr. Light's lawn. I'm using Software rendering, though.
Trust me, that game is not obscure, just overshadowed.Merely sarcasm.
At this point I would refrain from posting anymore compatibility bugs since all of these bugs are most likely fixed next version (which is meant to be released today). Frost Man's Ice Wave was never meant to climb walls since it didn't climb walls in MM8. I'm not really sure what you mean with the Auto thing though, perhaps elaborate?Yeah, I figured they were either handled or meant to be that way, respectively. Thought I'd just make sure the crew was aware of them.
Alright I see it now, I'll try to fix for next version in that case.Quote from: "OtakuAlex"Trust me, that game is not obscure, just overshadowed.Merely sarcasm.Quote from: "Fyone"At this point I would refrain from posting anymore compatibility bugs since all of these bugs are most likely fixed next version (which is meant to be released today). Frost Man's Ice Wave was never meant to climb walls since it didn't climb walls in MM8. I'm not really sure what you mean with the Auto thing though, perhaps elaborate?Yeah, I figured they were either handled or meant to be that way, respectively. Thought I'd just make sure the crew was aware of them.
Auto's bazooka is visible in the grass surrounding the fountain. When you start up singleplayer, walk to the foot of the porch step, then turn left and take a few steps forward. It should be visible.
EDIT: Or just jump on top of Ice Man. You should definitely see it then.
And i did just know that the genesis unit's bots arent the same.Alright we'll fix this next version when we add MM&B.
Plus those giant telly from burnerman's stage when you have this mod on, it spawns alot of fire waves.
Hm. You need to change the name or code or whatever for Auto's HUD. It replaces the truck graphics in the lab map.Alright I'll fix this for next version.
Also, the game still crashes whenever I am taken to the "UNKNOWN" map.
Also, the "V-height", or whatever it is that determines the height of the viewpoint of the class your playing, is off for Hyper Storm H. It needs to be lowered to accommodate the new skin.
Also offline, burnerman's stage lags like crazy (the current version not the old fireman alt version)Burnerman's stage thing wasn't fixed in this version that's out right now, it's fixed in the MM&B one (v3a); sorry for any confusion. Also, can you elaborate as to why Flameman's altfire is OP; is it because of the damage it does?
Also as a ton of people in the server said, Flameman's alt is just crazy powerful
Quote from: "-FiniteZero-"Hm. You need to change the name or code or whatever for Auto's HUD. It replaces the truck graphics in the lab map.Alright I'll fix this for next version.
Also, the game still crashes whenever I am taken to the "UNKNOWN" map.
Also, the "V-height", or whatever it is that determines the height of the viewpoint of the class your playing, is off for Hyper Storm H. It needs to be lowered to accommodate the new skin.
yes but the spamability, the fact it uses no ammo, and the fact it's a floor hugger with a huge radius seems a bit much, it takes me little to no effort to mow down a room full of bots in it, god forbid a 32 person deathmatch
Some more bugs:The ice block generators on Cold Man's stage are broken, they produce an ice block inside of themselves and probably keep on spawning them until there's too many and potentially cause severe slowdown or even crash the game.
Though perhaps you could also change it to an item, and give Quint the laser sword thing from RM&F2 as a weapon (though, to differentiate it from Slash Claw, perhaps you could make it not a ripper and just have it do set damage, like Charge Kick)?But Rockman Shadow already has that though (he's one of the Terminator bosses in the mod, BTW).
I did mean rate of recharge, yes.But isn't cannon. And a different character.
And I just wanted the sword thing because it would differentiate him from the main Classes mod.
NOTE: This mod isn't totally canon. We sometimes may twist the canon to make it more fun gameplay wise.
So why don't we just give Quint a thinner area to attack and give him less armor and the ability to slide without Sakugarne?I've already lowered the radius of his Sakugarne in the past, lowering it anymore may render him useless however lowering his armour for a slide is a good idea. I'll see what the rest of the devteam thinks about it.
This post will probably be ignored, but I just had to try saying something.
Quote from: "OtakuAlex"This post will probably be ignored, but I just had to try saying something.You dont need to drama' for it.
Yes, but people think the devteam doesnt listen the comments, it's not true.
Why does Bot Mercury shoots so many mercury drops on his alt fire?I probably forgot to update the bot with the new code, I'll fix it next version.
Isn't Duo' big fist supposed to be on his left hand?You could say the same for so many other robot masters, it's not done so that it's easier to aim and more natural.
I think Slash Man was designed rather poorly in terms of attack power and defense.We can't really buff Slashman's armour anymore, otherwise he would have base armour which I can't really see him having. The only thing we could do is maybe nerf the Slash Claw so he doesn't OHKO as much classes.
He dies rather easily and OHKO's most classes. He either dies in the first few seconds or ends up screwing over the entire match with brute strenght.
Perhaps you could higher the defense and lower the power?
This post will probably be ignored, but I just had to try saying something.
Some people are upset that we haven't made the balance changes they want.Quote from: "Emmanuelf06"Yes, but people think the devteam doesnt listen the comments, it's not true.
People think that? They seem nice and responsive based on what I've seen.
Some people are upset that we haven't made the balance changes they want.
Rest assured we're always hard at work making sure this is the most balanced classes mod you ever did see, so you can always have the luxury of picking your favorite classes, instead of needing to pick the "right" classes.
Oh,and someone needs to update justified classes's page on mm8bdm wiki here (http://mm8bdm.wikia.com/wiki/Justified_Classes)
Woah, this mod has a wiki page?
Quote from: "Dr. Crasger"Woah, this mod has a wiki page?
Yup,but several classes have outdated information,or don't even have any explanation at all (MM8 Rms and the Megaman Killers for example)
Yeah, I was the one who made and has been updating the wiki page. I need to finish it at some point.Who's explanation is outdated, though? I thought I got all the ones that changed (except Jupiter, I think I forgot him)...
How do I spawn the Evil Energy from Terminator Mode?
Duo can copy abilities in the Power Fighters.Also,can you add Centaur Arrow and Pharaoh Wave for Centaur Man and Pharaoh Man as well as their special abilities(Centaur Man has his shield and his naginata and Pharaoh Man has his eye shield,teleport,and Pharaoh Wave)for the next update?Duo is based off of MM8. Pharaoh Man and Centaur Man are based off of MM4 and MM6 respectively. Not that I speak for the team or anything, but I believe that's why they don't have those attacks.
Maybe you guys could make options for certain robot masters to have different abilities.For example,Mega Man,Proto Man,Bass,and Duo should have abilities from the Power Fighters.Same for certain robot masters from the Power Battles and the Power Fighters.You say they should. Why should they? More sprite work, and for what? So Mega Man gets an uppercut? So Bass can do a flash kick? So Duo is basically just the Duo Fist from the base game?
I have a question, will MM&B and MM&B2 (DanganMan, KonroMan, AirconMan, KomusoMan, ClockMen, CompassMan) be included? If so, May I do something for Danganman?I asked a while back, R&F2 is not likely, aside from R-Shadow, I think. Bass classes are coming up, apparently.
You say they should. Why should they? More sprite work, and for what? So Mega Man gets an uppercut? So Bass can do a flash kick? So Duo is basically just the Duo Fist from the base game?Quote from: "sa173533"Maybe you guys could make options for certain robot masters to have different abilities.For example,Mega Man,Proto Man,Bass,and Duo should have abilities from the Power Fighters.Same for certain robot masters from the Power Battles and the Power Fighters.
Duo can copy abilities in the Power Fighters.Also,can you add Centaur Arrow and Pharaoh Wave for Centaur Man and Pharaoh Man as well as their special abilities(Centaur Man has his shield and his naginata and Pharaoh Man has his eye shield,teleport,and Pharaoh Wave)for the next update?
I was talking about the Pharaoh Wave in the Power Fighters.Geez, Astro Seraphim, where's your head at? Can't you tell the difference between Pharaoh Wave and Pharaoh Wave?
Why do the Terminator characters have gradually withering health?Arnold Schwarzenegger is simply too OP.
Geez, Astro Seraphim, where's your head at? Can't you tell the difference between Pharaoh Wave and Pharaoh Wave?
Regardless, it seems like the team is focusing on the next update rather than spending all of their collective time here, so there probably isn't a ton of merit to discussing such things until that one's out.
Regardless, it seems like the team is focusing on the next update rather than spending all of their collective time here, so there probably isn't a ton of merit to discussing such things until that one's out.
Here's a problem I encountered:I fragged Astro Man in Ring Man's stage and I didn't get his weapon.What's wrong?We never updated Astroman's actor to give Copy Vision yet, but it's added in the next version.
you joined on a CTF map, that's whyTo elaborate, none of the official CTF maps have support for Dr. Cossack's and King's teams. They were only built with Dr. Light's and Dr. Wily's teams in mind.
Quote from: "ice"you joined on a CTF map, that's whyTo elaborate, none of the official CTF maps have support for Dr. Cossack's and King's teams. They were only built with Dr. Light's and Dr. Wily's teams in mind.
Oh,apparently Bot Iceman can shoot ice slasher faster than the player can,and with his bot abillity to have infinite ammoWe'll try to fix these for the next version, not really sure of the cause for what happened in that screenshot though.makes him a pain in the ass to battle.
And Bot Oilman has the abillitie to fly (maybe because of the oil slider?I don't know).
Oy,one more thing.Mr. X team is in King team's place,so,if you choose Mr.X team your health bar will show you the letter "K" meaning that you're in King's team,but if you look at the left bottom of the screen where the team scores are,it will show you,that you're in Mr. X's team.So yeah..
Hey,wait...what's this?(click to show/hide)
I don't think it has anything to do with Justified Classes specifically. I just went to MM1ICE and tried as many different situations as I could think of. I stood in that exact spot with Neptune, as the Mr. X Team even. I can't get it to happen, which is a shame, because I'd like to identify those textures firsthand.
I only added JC v2dh. No skins folder, nothing else. What exactly did you do to make such a thing happen?
So what's the deal with the Sunstar class sitting in the code? Will that be implemented at some point?
I'm more curious about the Rock class.Rock's class was made a long time ago but we didn't add it since King Yamato was strongly against it and still is.
Hey, can I make a DOS 1&3 Addon for this?Sure!
Hey, can I make a DOS 1&3 Addon for this?Don't forget to share.
Also buff Uranus and nerf Searchman pl0x c:Searchman is already nerfed, though perhaps give some backbone as to why Uranus is UP? Because I find playing as him fine.
So whens the MM&B classes coming?
Also buff Uranus and nerf Searchman pl0x c:
Nah, we're still keeping an eye out on this thread. We're just hard at work getting the next big update ready with all those funderful MM&B classes for your classes playing enjoyment!
Several classes can OHKO. Slash Man can't OHKO classes with average armor or above. And though it's low on the priorities list, we are planning to give everyone jumping sprites eventually.
Also, the Justified Classes wiki page has been updated to include rundowns for the Mega Man 8 classes!
If you would like to help with sprites, there are much more things that are at a higher priority as far as sprites go that we would like help with. If you want to help, PM me with some of your previous work we'll see if we can add you into the devteam!
*I'm poking fun at this "Power Fighters did it so this mod should definitely include it" mentality. I think Duo is interesting the way he is, and making him just another copywep class "because Power Fighters did it" would be a waste. Also, I think bringing the "special moves" to this mod would just be an even bigger waste, since they'd need their own HUD and they would serve no purpose whatsoever, what with each class being able to aim up.He was joking.
Hey, if you truly want canon-ity, make Needleman float when shooting needles.In addition to what Stonefunk said, our main reason for not having Needleman float when shooting needles is because it screws up his gameplay too much and makes it hard to play as him.
Actually, I have a better idea, give O'l Needle the KY Jetpack item or something, but this is just a little suggestion.
I keep thinking we should make NES-Perfect classes that are EXACTLY like the bossfights.
I keep thinking we should make NES-Perfect classes that are EXACTLY like the bossfights.Sounds like fun. A bunch of high-jumping characters who deal 4-6 damage through collision and 3-4 damage with their main weapons, usually. With each only being able to move on a two-dimensional plane. Maybe sa173533 can help with the design documents.
Quote from: "-FiniteZero-"I keep thinking we should make NES-Perfect classes that are EXACTLY like the bossfights.Sounds like fun. A bunch of high-jumping characters who deal 4-6 damage through collision and 3-4 damage with their main weapons, usually. With each only being able to move on a two-dimensional plane. Maybe sa173533 can help with the design documents.
I keep thinking we should make NES-Perfect classes that are EXACTLY like the bossfights.
The problem would be that it would be horribly unbalanced. But whatev.
Collision Damage would only work for VERY specific bosses. Like Gravity, who fought you by using himself as a weight.
Don't forget to take away a good chunk of the weapons' ability to aim in multiple directions! (leaving only Metal Blade, Shadow Blade, Freeze Cracker, Danger Wrap, Wild Coil, Remote Mine, Magic Card, Black Hole Bomb, and Rebound Striker)Freeze Cracker can be aimed? What?
While we're at it, why don't we make it so you can't even look to the left or right, and can only walk forwards and backwards?Yes, this sounds perfect. Really get the most out of a 3D environment that way.
I think that's a bit much. There should still be SOME control over the characters. We should still be able to move in 3D, otherwise what's the point of using MM8BDM at all?I was sarcastically suggesting how to make it more NES perfect. I think Korby was serious though.
I hope Bass will get the correct colors for him when he obtains weapons from the KGN bots. For example, Burner would give Bass a green Wave Burner and a green color scheme.I think this is a possibility. The Bass colors are in the core, and Burner Man's Wave Burner looks almost (if not entirely) the same as Bass's. For the other weapons, there would just be some minor tweaks. BUT, it would also make sense for it to not happen, since none of Bass's other weapons change their looks from Mega's or Proto's... Stay tuned.
Also, you have to make Doc easier to use. I find that the double item was too hard to use, especially when you're rushing for one certain weapon. You know how Shadow, Frost, and Buster Rod have the ability to switch weapons by scrolling the mouse (or whatever control you guys use to switch weapons, in my case, shift/ctrl)? Can you give that to Doc?I thought the idea was to get your combination of weapons ready before hopping into the fray. At least, I think I saw that somewhere in this thread.
Also, buff Oilman. His main is just not tough enough. It's hard to get a single kill with him in a DM environment.Oil Man's main weapon is the Oil Slider. His oil drops are just an annoyance. It's the same way in Powered Up, his main way of attacking is using the Oil Slider and jumping into you, after firing three drops of oil at you, which don't do as much damage and are really just there to make you slip. Though, fun fact, he falls slower and has a unique sprite while firing those in Justified. I thought that was a nice touch.
I hope Bass will get the correct colors for him when he obtains weapons from the KGN bots. For example, Burner would give Bass a green Wave Burner and a green color scheme.We are planning on doing this, yes.
And if this is supposed to be canon, why does Mars not have his homing missiles? Make them regenerate at about the same rate as Cut's Giga Cutter and they do weak damage.We figured it would make the class too cluttered since he already has a bunch of weapons at his disposal already.
While we're at it, why don't we make it so you can't even look to the left or right, and can only walk forwards and backwards?
I actually have a legit question this time.We do plan on adding rotations to Napalm Man's Napalm Bombs, yes.
I noticed just a few minutes ago (please do not bully) that Napalm Bomb got a rotation in V4A. Will Napalm Man's Napalm Bombs get a rotation down the line?
I actually prefer them the way they look now, but I thought I'd ask, because why not.
Do you plan in making Astro get his ability to summon Shururun in a near future?Similar to Mars' case, we figured it would make Astroman too cluttered since he already has so many moves especially since being able to summon Shururun wouldn't be very useful anyways.
FAlso, this is not an oversight, but a question: When Tengu Man gets defeated by a copy character, will he get the Tornado Hold or the Tengu Blade?Randomly selected.
So, this is supposed to come out in the winter? *sigh* Oh well, at I'll have something else to look forward to this winter that ISN'T Smash for Wii U.I never said this.
Fyone, there's one more little oversight I noticed. Pluto has no weakness whatsoever to Mercury's mainfire or the GrabBusterWep(M/P/B). His only weakness is Mercury's altfire. While we're on that subject, Saturn is only weak to Jupiter's mainfire instead of both the main and the alt (aerial Electric Shock). Are you planning on fixing that?Again, this is already fixed.
For real? I loaded that map without any mods, and I never noticed anything else like that happening. I like it!That is low priory at the moment, we'll most likely do it eventually though.
Oh, about the mod. Would it be possible to edit Knight Man's skin a tad, to remove the flail from his model when he's firing? I thought it looked a bit inconsistent with his HUD.
I never said this.Quote from: "Fr3akGamer"So, this is supposed to come out in the winter? *sigh* Oh well, at I'll have something else to look forward to this winter that ISN'T Smash for Wii U.
Well we should be able to get v3a out much before then.
Here's hoping it's out early enough that I can stop procrastinating on my important matters.
Speaking of important matters, something has always confused me. What's with Yamato Man's HUD spear? I've seen it like this in so many mods, what's the justification for it lacking its spearhead?
I've already made a new HUD for Yamatoman, so no need to worry.Quote from: "Promestein"Here's hoping it's out early enough that I can stop procrastinating on my important matters.
Speaking of important matters, something has always confused me. What's with Yamato Man's HUD spear? I've seen it like this in so many mods, what's the justification for it lacking its spearhead?
That's what I was thinking. It does have a missing spear head. I can even personally make a new HUD.
Quote from: "Fr3akGamer"I've already made a new HUD for Yamatoman, so no need to worry.Quote from: "Promestein"Here's hoping it's out early enough that I can stop procrastinating on my important matters.
Speaking of important matters, something has always confused me. What's with Yamato Man's HUD spear? I've seen it like this in so many mods, what's the justification for it lacking its spearhead?
That's what I was thinking. It does have a missing spear head. I can even personally make a new HUD.
I always imagined Ground Man would operate somewhat like a fusion of Turbo Man and Drill Man. He'd have his Spread Drill, an alt that would behave like a much slower version of Turbo's alt, and the ability to tunnel around in either the ground or ceiling (with the ability to expel some of the drill meter to do that weird triple drill attack).
But, I'm sure the Justified team will make him true to his original appearance.
But do you have an estimated release month?We hope to release it later this month if all goes well.
Quote from: "Fr3akGamer"But do you have an estimated release month?We hope to release it later this month if all goes well.
try wheeling somebody that's running for a quick 1 hit kill
I'd rather not change the way pain states work and keep it in line with vanilla for simplicity's sake.
Why is Gyro attack not ripping? In Mega Man 5 fight, Gyro Man's Gyro Attack went through Mega Man and didn't disappear when it hit him. Just putting that out there.
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't touch Uranus. He's right where he needs to be.Yep, between both cheeks last time I checked.
I've actually been trying to convince the team to make a Yellow Devil Terminator, centered largely around his abilities from Power Battle/Fighters. Tossing cubes that bounce around; firing eye lasers; splitting into pieces and flying forward (playing as him, this would feel like Punk's Cannonball); all that good stuff. He's not a Robot Master, but he is a staple of the series (hell, he made it into Smash Bros.!).
Hey guys, what are ya gonna do when you finish all of the main series bots in this mod?I can tell you right now, no, as this mod focuses on a more canon set up.
Are you going to go after the fangames? Like Unlimited, Rock Force, Rocks, Dongs, etc.
Are you going after the other spin off series? Like X, Zero, ZX?
Or are you going after the hacks? Like Minus Infinity, Forever, No Constancy, Deus Ex Machina, Grey Zone, Claw, etc?
I have split this topic since the health debate kinda got heated and exploded. I hope you got the answers from the results already.What do you mean "split?"
Btw food for thought, there's is and always has been a server option to turn off health items if you have access to it: sv_nohealth.
I see Auto as more of a support class to tank hits than a typical straight attack class. The things you listed all pertain to his offensive characteristics, so a buff is not necessary in my opinion.the main issue is, it is EXTREMELY difficult to even land hits with his rockets, which is a red flag as his special ability relies on landing hits to get the screws to begin with. On top of that, what the heck is even the point of giving a "support" class a weapon if it's so difficult to even hit with
Auto's explosion already works very similar to Crash Bomb where it multi-hits. I also agree that raising the RoF wouldn't do any good due to the nature of the weapon, so instead of raising the RoF or raising the explosion radius (since we don't want the sprites' size to deceive) we're going to raise the speed so that it's harder to dodge at point-blank distance.Yeah. Currently, the way Photon Missile is used in the original MMV game is very similar to the Auto Rockets. And that's not exactly a good thing. Do your best to make Auto decent, Fyone and your brothers. I wish you all the best of luck.
So, hey, you still need to fix some of the stardroids colors? i can help with that.If you could PM me the sprites it would be greatly appreciated since it would save us a lot of time. If you could also do Pluto that would be great help too.
I went on and fixed Jupiter's colors. and using him as a standalone skin. :3
that wouldn't make any sense as one, his propeller is WAAAAY too tiny to produce enough wind, and 2, why would he need oil slider when he can fly? Basically the class nails him for the most part, rocket launcher with flight and the ability to make stuff, really, if he were to get something else, it's anther craftable item
That sounds very exciting. I cannot wait to try out Konro Man.Wrong game, Konro is M&B2.
He's pretty predictable and easy to maneuver around...when you can move reasonably well.
Oh, also. It's kinda hard to hit a Quint that's going all over the place.
The mmb classes are done. Right now, we are rebalancing the classes and seeing how we can improve them. This could take a week or two weeks at most.
Have Bass' arms for when he dashes been fixed for widescreen?What do you mean fixed for widescreen? I didn't know there was a problem with his arms when he dashed.
When dashing with certain weapons equipped like Yamato Spear or Crash Bomb, his arms become cut off:Quote from: "Beed28"Have Bass' arms for when he dashes been fixed for widescreen?What do you mean fixed for widescreen? I didn't know there was a problem with his arms when he dashed.
Your username is how I feel right now.
Edit: And after toying around with the mod a bit. Ground Man, my favorite, is phenomenal. I especially like the context-sensitive altfire.
Edit 2: Gahaha, I found a bug. Whenever I hit Cold Man (the bot, at least) with Dynamo Man's Lightning Bolt, he disappears and the game crashes shortly after.
V3? Hopefully people won't play YD anymore, that's horribly balanced.
I'm fine with people of your social group posting insensitive/ignorant posts on other topics saying that Justified is your least favourite mod and stuff due to bias or that you hate it for questionable reasons like: I just don't like how it plays! It feels intentionally bad! which equate to no reasoning and irrational opinions. But posting on our topic saying things with literally no evidence and proof is a new low. I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact that you said this, or the fact that you actually believe YD is even possibly more balanced than Justified.Quote from: "LarissaFlash"V3? Hopefully people won't play YD anymore, that's horribly balanced.
I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact that you said this, or the fact that you actually believe Justified is any better.
Go play TurboMan or Pluto for... any quantity of time, really.
Better yet, go play Skullman. Or maybe Toadman. Or Uranus.
I think you get my point.
(Note: This was made before I actually checked out v3a. If any of these got changed, ignore my ramblings.)
EDIT: Duo goes in category 1. Burnerman goes in category 2.
Also Duo and Venus bots are still borked and now wily bot doesn't appear in botrush and instead I get a message saying "invalid bot wily" or something like that. But other than that, the update is ok.Alright I'll try to fix this, also I'll make the birds on magic shootable.
I also like Burner, BUT, I'm gonna go out and say he is broken as HELL.Well I'm not sure if you were playing on a server or with bots, but Burnerman's mainfire isn't as good as you think since you slow down while using it, it needs to be able to block shots to compensate. As for his altfire, there is already a distance limit but I'll lower it even more. The waves that come out when you hit the ground already basically cover every direction so I don't think spinning will make it much more effective, for that reason I'm not gonna make it so that you can't turn. (Also if I made it so that you can't turn you would unfreeze when you get hit due to the way SetPlayerProperty(0,1,4) works anyways.) Lastly that glitch you pointed out never happened to me when I did it in core maps, so I think it's just your map's problem probably.
Wave Burner BLOCKS SHOTS, yes it did so in M&B but in this environment, and with how much he can do, drop the shot blocking.
His diving attack can be aimed any direction, but in game he never went up. I suggest putting a distance limit on him so he won't go higher then needed to hit the ground at the elevation he jumped from.
Second complaint about his dive, make him unable to turn when he hits the ground, the waves come out in the direction you are facing when the spawn, so if you turn while doing it you cover every single direction.
Also I did this in one of my own maps with water, but when I dived into the water I broke Burner and could not gain any water effects, even after leaving the water and re-entering it, I do not know if it does so in any core maps though.
one more thing I'd like to ask, please give megaman his slide back. as it is now it actually seems to slow him downMegaman's slide always boosted your speed by that much, and it doesn't slow you down when using it...
It isn't his distance that is the problem, it is the fact he can go any direction you are aiming even those that are not down. Make him have to go down, not able to go straight or up.Not a bad idea, since he can go everywhere with this attack....its hard to escape from it if you are a little too near from him... could be cool if you can escape from a high platform....i dont know exactly the power of this attack, but it looks strong...maybe nerf just the possibility to go UP ?
I'm fine with people of your social group posting insensitive/ignorant posts on other topics saying that Justified is your least favourite mod and stuff due to bias or that you hate it for questionable reasons like: I just don't like how it plays! It feels intentionally bad! which equate to no reasoning and irrational opinions. But posting on our topic saying things with literally no evidence and proof is a new low. I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact that you said this, or the fact that you actually believe YD is even possibly more balanced than Justified.
OK first of all I'm ignoring your ramblings since none of those classes have problems of being OP in v3; if you're gonna name evidence at least be sure about what you're saying. Also category 1 and category 2 refer to what?
How do you even expect people to get your point if you just post classes you think are unbalanced with no proof or reasoning? Why not also give constructive criticism on how to improve them too?
Toadman simply needs to leap high into the air and fire to get a successful rain flush. And even then, he has his TOAD COMBAT which does a crapton of damage in close corridors, where the above strat is useless.Wait, you can trigger Rain Flush in the air? When the hell was this added? Also, Toad Combat? What on Earth happened when I stopped paying attention to this mod?
Skullmans shield is an attack as well, so using that as an attack instead of shielding himself is another strategy that can be employed. Not only that, when he releases it, everyone near him gets shoved away, which is a lot more helpful than it seems.First one is nigh impossible to land because of how it works. Second one, I've never seen actually hit, mainly because the first one exists and pretty much does that anyway. Either way, you still leave yourself completely open to being set up on after the two seconds are up, a trait which completely mitigates almost any advantage the shield gives.
Uranus kills in five shots. That's all there is to say on that matter....And has a charge time of five years, a firing rate of "please kill me", and Super Arm is strictly better in terms of overall damage output.
Forest Diver kills if you land directly on someone, which isn't hard to do at all. Plus, have you even weaponswitched to his grenades? They do almost 25 per hit. AND he has traps, which were MEANT to be used with the Wave Burner.Wait, Forest Diver can kill people? I've never seen it actually hit for any sizable amount of damage.
However, I won't defend coldman. He's broken as shit right now.Not sure broken's the word you're looking for, but I agree. Coldman needs to be looked at.
These aren't classes with a basic goal in mind.
there's multiple ways you can play him.
Basically, if the class feels like it's not accomplishing anything,eitheryou're approaching them the wrong way
Smarminess aside (and frankly I'm not terribly interested in your personal gripes with Stonefunk, though I will fully admit the guy is way too sensitive and melodramatic), there's no contradictions here at all. Just because there's multiple ways to play him doesn't mean there aren't wrong ways, as well. Not terribly hard to understand.Quote from: "Shmeckie"there's multiple ways you can play him.Quote from: "Shmeckie"Basically, if the class feels like it's not accomplishing anything,eitheryou're approaching them the wrong way
multiple ways
wrong way
Sorry to interrupt you two again but isn't this contradicting itself?
I mean its just another YD vs Justified war and both sides are to take blame, and after what Stonefunk just sent me it seems as if the justified side is the saltiest neptune in all of bikini bottom while coldfusion tries to make points without fully understanding what each class can do. Again, both sides are to blame.
If I may ask, what is the killing obit for the Mokumokumo a reference to?
'X was sent to the seventh heaven by Y's Mokumokumo'
on the subject of coldman, the freeze sniping makes him outright broken in LMS due to the fact it flat out negates ALL movement, plus it recharges ammo fast enough for you to lock them down, dashes and all, the whisps slows enemies dramatically also, then you have the ice wall itself, while horizontally it isnt much, try hitting someone angled vertically however it deals really good damage, or even worse if you managed to use it in a small area where it'll bounce alotColdman's altfire will be nerfed next version in RoF, range, damage, and stun time. So he should be balanced next version.
Wait, you can charge the bubble?You could've just checked the wiki for the move overview ya' know.
They really ought to make things like that clearer...
...That aside, the reason I was complaining about Pirate Man in particular was that I was playing immediately before making that post, and I caught a Napalm Man in EVERY SINGLE FRAME OF THE (uncharged) BUBBLE.If you were to catch Napalm Man in every single frame of the uncharged bubble you would most definitely kill him in seconds, so what you're saying makes no sense.
And he was still alive and fully capable of hitting me in the face with Napalm Bombs for three quarters of my health.
Because... reasons.
This attack takes five seconds of out of combat time to use. It should at least be consistent in its power, but that seems to be too much to ask from this mod at this point.
Other things I saw a lot of during that play session:Slashman wasn't meant to instagib this version, expect it fixed next version to 2-3HKO. Also blocking shots with Slash Man is really hard to do due to the RoF. BTW the Burner Grenades kill in 3 hits not 4. Plantman has really low armour, again not as strong as you think; I assume you're referring to the first released version where he was OP? Starman also gets an armour buff while using starcrash in addition has much more armour than Plantman. Which Super Moves are you talking about?
> Slash Man can block shots AND instagib in a mod where 25 damage Burner Grenades (which have roughly the same range) are considered fair and balanced.
> Plant Man was used pretty much exclusively because Plant Hug is easily one of the strongest melee attacks in the game, but Star Man is never played because he slows to a crawl while Crashing.
> Seriously, some of these super moves aren't worth how much time you have to wait. Without being able to, y'know, defend yourself. Is it really too much to ask for that cooldowns don't rely on you not attacking for the duration? You could double their cooldowns for all I care. But when I dread actually having to try to fight someone in Megaman 8-Bit Deathmatch, I feel like something's inherently wrong in the design.
If you were to catch Napalm Man in every single frame of the uncharged bubble you would most definitely kill him in seconds, so what you're saying makes no sense.
King's Army attacks!
Download Justified Classes v3a Here! (http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=justifiedclasses-v3a.pk3)
Changelog:NOW YOU'RE PLAYING WITH JUSTICE!!(click to show/hide)
Also check out my taunts pack (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6317&p=275118#p275118) with MMB taunts!
So, what's the deal with Burner Man's stage's fire? I mean, I kinda like the blue tint to it, but that they're just parts of sprites creeps me out.Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out the cause for that blue. I would assume it had to with one of the translations to Burnerman's weapons, but I didn't find a solution yet.
So, what's the deal with Burner Man's stage's fire? I mean, I kinda like the blue tint to it, but that they're just parts of sprites creeps me out.
Speaking of weaknesses, they seem to be broken... at the start of a match, say, I use Rain Flush on a Bright Man, I get the weakness sound effect. But after he dies and respawns, he's no longer weak to Rain Flush, and thus, no sound effect.Apparently the weakness breaking only happens with bots, because I tested it with real people and I still heard the weakness sound. Bass' dash arms being cut off still; I guess I could try making the translation even bigger. And I fixed the Mega Man V horizontal bars next version.
Also; Bass' dash arms (his left arm getting cut off) still needs to be fixed, and the ammo bars for the Mega Man V special weapons don't even show up on the horizontal hud layout.
and in other news, toadman is hard to secape in a low ceiling stage with his 1 borderline hit kill meleeI just gave Toadman no hitstun on his altfire next version, can you think of any other classes that need no hitstun in that case?
Edit: actually, stunlocking seems to be a huge overall issue with the mod
I can't say I understood a word of that, but Enker got nothing but buffs so I fail to see why you think he sucks now.
I think you must be mixing YD Enker with Justified Enker, because all he got was buffs in this version. YD Enker is the one with high speed, high armour, whole bunch of damage, etc.
He got a damage buff and he can hold the guard stance out as long as he wants, so you can't predict when his stance ends and punish him.
Enker is only Quick Man-level in MM10, though. He moves much closer to Mega Man's speed in Dr. Wily's Revenge.
To be honest, in MM2 Quick Man isn't that fast. He was as fast as they could make him at the time. He made up for it by being more agile and jumping ten feet in the air and across the arena 2 or 3 times. But he's established in canon (and appearances in later games) as being the fastest Robot Master.Minus for his rivalry against Turbo Man over who is the fastest robot master. Established in Battle & Chase in which if I recall Quick's reasoning for joining the race was to beat the reining champ Turbo, but was forced to join the race in a car which was slower then himself.
Enker is now just a running Target,B** Please, when V3 got released i got to enker and got two consecutive frags at charged shots, protip:If you play JC, don't play YD, If you play YD, don't play JC.
Hes unplayable anymore.
Quote from: "Promestein"So, what's the deal with Burner Man's stage's fire? I mean, I kinda like the blue tint to it, but that they're just parts of sprites creeps me out.
Looks like a sprite replaced the fire... again, looks like Burner Man.
> Some bots were broken in bot rush like Quick who would keep trying to use the boomerangs but since he has no ammo, he can't. I think I met some other classes which couldn't work properly, basically check all the classes who obtained a ammo bar in the last versions, they might be broken in bot rush by trying to fire
-NO BOTFIXES FOR THIS RELEASE, WAIT FOR NEXT
some funnels, a la Gundam SEED.....
Green Devil never.
Quote from: "Promestein"some funnels, a la Gundam SEED.....
.....
.....
.....
Funnels originated from Zeta Gundam thank you very much, and Seed doesn't even actually have funnels, they were called The Dragoon System.
On a serious note, no one would even fit having weapons like that.
Funnels originated from Zeta Gundam thank you very much, and Seed doesn't even actually have funnels, they were called The Dragoon System.Trust me, I was only kidding. The Qubeley is among my top three favorite mobile suits and I've never watched SEED, I was just trying to be as absurd as possible.
On a serious note, no one would even fit having weapons like that.
Also, Buster Rod G's clones recharge extremely quickly for something that's a homing (slightly) ripper that can instakill if used up close. A slight nerf to the recharge rate would be nice.I'll check on this just in case though I never found this to be an issue personally.
I think King's camra is to high. This is where his shots come out of.Actually, the shots are supposed to come out of his forehead like in Megaman & Bass. If I'm mistaken and you're referring to the shots not coming out of his forehead but instead higher I'll lower where they fire slightly.(click to show/hide)
Hmm... True, but we need some non-robot master/non-important character classes in this mod, like a Mettaur, for example, it could shoot with the main fire, and toggle ducking with the alt-fire, but you become blinded, stiff, yet untouchable during the helmet hiding.
I was also reverencing that is where his line of sight is as well, so you and his shots are actually coming from the spot between the two things on his head, which is actually above his forehead. So yea, above it. Just a tad is all feels weird looking straight into the mirror and having the crosshair above the eyes.Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"I think King's camra is to high. This is where his shots come out of.Actually, the shots are supposed to come out of his forehead like in Megaman & Bass. If I'm mistaken and you're referring to the shots not coming out of his forehead but instead higher I'll lower where they fire slightly.(click to show/hide)
So... I wonder why you didn't add a Sniper Joe class, it could be really cool.We're in talks. It's a maybe/maybe not situation, but the idea being kicked around is a pretty unique one I think you guys will dig if we can do it.
[10:31:15 PM] Fyone: it is though
[10:31:28 PM] Fyone: I've been on servers, I've seen for myself
[10:32:17 PM] Rozark Kyouko: Then you don't even understand your own classes mod/that's bad and I'm going to sleep.
[10:03 PM] Fyone: And yes the dash is like a 2hko if the guy's against a wall.
does THAT much damage, wall or no wall (It doesn't matter if there's a wall, just go through the guy), and has homing shots, then yes, something IS wrong with Pluto.
[10:30:12 PM] Rozark Kyouko: You may intend for the dash to be a risk-reward melee attack, but it isnt used that way
One of your goals may be to create some sort of strategy in a classes mod. That is the developer's intended goal. However, the players use the most efficient way of killing things and use only that, making other things useless. So, what do the developer's do? Well, they usually either buff the weak points or nerf the strong points to create a fun and balanced gameplay system. This doesn't seem to be the case here as the developer's claim to enter the servers to gain information on their mod. However, as most of us on the servers know, while they do occasionally ask things, the main purpose of those visits is to further advertise their mod in an un-fun way. We're sick of that. It isn't helping anything; you're just annoying people. If they truly watched how players play, they'll notice the same trends I just brought up.
Pluto's Dash needs to be looked over while most classes need a shift in power so one aspect of the class isn't dominating over the other aspects.
I'd just like to point out that you never addressed the "incredibly dodgey, high armor" aspect of the dash. Which is imbalanced.
Also why do most classes' attacks hit like wet paper
OK first of all if there was no wall, regularly hitting the guy it would kill in 5 hits so it does matter if there's a wall. And homing shots were already nerfed, though seeing as most of your information regarding this mod refers to the first release (since in the first release Pluto did go invincible when using the Break Dash) I doubt you knew this.
Uh... why would I go to a Justified server and further advertise my mod? When was the last time you've been to a Justified server to have the right to say this? So far everything you brought up on Skype and here refer to the first release of Justified Classes where Pluto was OP. I also don't usually ask things on servers, I just play the game and see for myself.
Unless more people agree with this I don't think I'll be changing Pluto's Break Dash anytime soon because I don't see it being OP in the slightest, at least from my experience playing on servers.
Homing shots weren't the problem, the dash was. You completely ignored the broken part of the class and nerfed something that was so-so....sort of.
Y'know, considering the weakest attacks in this mod are 6-7HKOs, many classes have 1-2HKO attacks, the average being 3-4HKO.Honestly I feel this is a little, off. Not saying this isn't true but, just bare with me here.
Edit: Ok, I'm actually trying slash now in botrush, and with how many times Wave hit me, I should not have walked out of that with only 1/4 of my health missing.
Wave Man's attacks are rippers, the amount of damage depends on how often you're on top of the attack. If he keeps grazing you, of course it won't do much.
And Darkman1 kills me faster when I'm playing as Burner. Ok guys but Slash should be using that alt to close gaps and make gaps to let him score kills and live.
Slash's alt (and by that I mean the slash dash that comes after the wall cling alt) is primarily for ambushing, and for rushdown offense. It doesn't function very well as an escape tool at all, and there's no reason it should.
I didn't say everyone does the same damage, I'm saying have a some feel of the fact that no one in the main games does one shot kill.Uranus. ironically you gave him leeway, but not for that reason it seems.
Say Quick fires 5 shots per second, and Slash only swings 2 times per second, shouldn't both of them deal roughly the same amount of damage in 1 second?No.
The problem lies in that you're fighting bots, fortegigasgospel. I mean, look at Mega Man. That poor sap hasn't been able to land a single hit on me since this mod came out, and I use him for testing out new classes as a result.
Like I said with Uranus before, a character is not their one attack. Slash Man is not just his Slash Claw. Quick Man is not just Quick Boomerang. Each character has to be balanced around their advantages, disadvantages, etc. Quick Man is fast and agile, so he's fragile and his main method of attack doesn't hit very hard at all. He has his Quick Boost, which is a risky move in many ways, so it pays off with big damage if used properly. We don't balance based on making sure everyone's mainfire is around the same strength. We have to evaluate each class as a sum of all their parts.
Let's go back on this line for a moment:
[10:30:12 PM] Rozark Kyouko: You may intend for the dash to be a risk-reward melee attack, but it isnt used that way
One of your goals may be to create some sort of strategy in a classes mod. That is the developer's intended goal. However, the players use the most efficient way of killing things and use only that, making other things useless. So, what do the developer's do? Well, they usually either buff the weak points or nerf the strong points to create a fun and balanced gameplay system. This doesn't seem to be the case here as the developer's claim to enter the servers to gain information on their mod. However, as most of us on the servers know, while they do occasionally ask things, the main purpose of those visits is to further advertise their mod in an un-fun way. We're sick of that. It isn't helping anything; you're just annoying people. If they truly watched how players play, they'll notice the same trends I just brought up.
If v3c ever gets out, please fix Venus, Duo, Proto and Jupiter Bot. Thankyoubye.
In short, Justified is based around rewarding skilled players who can use a class to their fullest. Running around simply hitting W+M1, or only ever using the highest damaging attack in a class' arsenal, will only get you so far. But if all you want to use is Slash Man's mainfire, by all means. I'm sure the skilled Needle Man player who'll pelt you with needles until you're in screwdriver range will thank you for the free frag.
no one is going to use the rest of slash's kit if his mainfire is a 2hkoAlso you need to stop fighting bots and play against people online. There's no way that you can just only use Burnerman's mainfire online because you won't be able to get close enough to hit people with it half the time. Burnerman's isn't a speed demon like Quickman AND he slows down when using his mainfire. You're gonna have to close up the gap by throwing grenades and then go in with the wave burner unless you're camping. BTW the grenades had a speed boost in this version, so they are even easier to use now too.
You basicly told me that I was wrong to excuse Uranus from having an OTK move because I said the fact he actually had one in game, but you said it was because he has the ramming attack.I...what?!
You are saying that Slash having an 2hk (which can actually 1 shot many classes fyi, I one shotted a Junk Man) is perfectly fine because he also has the wall jump and the goo. That doesn't give him a reason to have a 2hk move, that gives him a reason to have his damage reduced, because he has alternative methods to go about doing damage or in his case augment his 2hk move to make getting kills easier then just running up to him.You're not quite getting anything I'm saying, it seems.
You are thinking we aren't taking his other abilities into mind when we ARE. Stop thinking having more abilities means they warrent being stronger.Because the grenades do more damage, reach father, don't use up ammo as quickly, have splash damage, don't slow him down to near sitting duck status while using it, and actually allow him to tangle with long range classes. Need I go on?
I'll go back to Burner as an example. I never use his grenades. Why bother? Why swap weapons for slow moving grenades when I'm as fast as everyone else when not attacking, my attack blocks shots, refills quickly, I have bear traps to stun with, and the dive attack which can 1 shot. And every one of his 4 things runs on a different bar.
Also, I forgot to mention, Slash's Slash Claw uses no ammo, his wall jump uses ammo and recovers at a fairly good rate, and his goo trap runs on a cooldown. Where both Quick's boomerangs and dash run on the same ammo bar.
What are you even talking about? I didn't say the mod was pointless or some such nonsense, I said the classes have no one specific way you're supposed to play them.Quote from: "Shmeckie"In short, Justified is based around rewarding skilled players who can use a class to their fullest. Running around simply hitting W+M1, or only ever using the highest damaging attack in a class' arsenal, will only get you so far. But if all you want to use is Slash Man's mainfire, by all means. I'm sure the skilled Needle Man player who'll pelt you with needles until you're in screwdriver range will thank you for the free frag.
+1 developer goal proof
It isn't an idea, it's fact.
See to even begin a project you can't just not have an objective or goal.
That's impossible, there's always a reason to make something.
What part of "Players play and use things differently than the devs think the class will do" is difficult to understand?People hate this mod? Huh. That certainly doesn't explain the two highly active servers that host it...
Quit being stubborn, this is why people hate this mod.
We're trying to help you by providing your desired feedback, but whenever someone criticizes something you immediately shoot it down and defend it to death. Stop doing that.
People hate this mod? Huh. That certainly doesn't explain the two highly active servers that host it...
We're not in the business of playing the mod for you. We're just providing the tools. If you're not using them to their fullest, you won't do as well. But that's not the fault of the mod, or the devteam.
We're all for feedback if there's a legitimate issue beyond hypothetical scenarios from people who don't even play the game, or primarily play against bots. If someone comes to us and says something to the effect of "hey, people are picking Quint for braindead win streaks, he's overpowered" we're all ears. Or if we're in a server, and everyone, during play, is making a consistent complaint about something, we take note. But if someone's complaining about a character being underpowered because they personally don't do well with them, or overpowered simply because they have a strong attack regardless of the situation that attack requires, not so much.
In justified, there is not a group of friends
For Pluto, i dont know if he is op....for me it's ok, we need more than 1 complain of a guy We dont see on the servers,
3) I've stated multiple times that I play this game and sometimes alias when joining a justified server. Read please.
B) Refusing to acknowledge that I play this game and that my feedback is useful.
it's legitimate, we prefer have the criticism from people who like the mode and who play it a lot. Instead receive the boring comments from people who hate Justified since the start because it wasnt made by the team of YDdevroom. It's just a preference.
If people dont like us, they can try to ignore us and the mode, please. Instead try to looks like an intellectual judge who want have his "word" on a mode just because he is (a little) popular.... It's always like that in this forum.....sad.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"People hate this mod? Huh. That certainly doesn't explain the two highly active servers that host it...
1) Fyone and Stonefunk host the servers.
2) You forgot how MM8BDM works: People go to the server with the most people, regardless if they like the mod or not. Get at least 10 people in Screw Scramble of all things and you'll see that server fill up quick too.
This statement literally makes no sense at all, what about the people that started the server? What about the first 10 people? How would a server even get 10 people on the server if people didn't like it? How would Justified have full servers everyday if this wasn't the case? I definitely don't see Screw Scramble full everyday...Quote from: "Shmeckie"We're not in the business of playing the mod for you. We're just providing the tools. If you're not using them to their fullest, you won't do as well. But that's not the fault of the mod, or the devteam.
1) You forget that I'm not the only one saying things, there's at least 4-5 other people who have expressed the same things as I have, many more who don't feel like posting in this topic.
2) You WILL do as well if you use the most efficient attack.
3) The Developer Goal not matching the Player Goal is the mod/devteam's fault.
"at least 4-5 other people", the only people that have expressed the same things you have are ForteGigas and Korby. ForteGigas gets literally all of his balance from bots which is an invalid source and Korby barely plays Justified Classes as far as I can tell.Quote from: "Shmeckie"We're all for feedback if there's a legitimate issue beyond hypothetical scenarios from people who don't even play the game, or primarily play against bots. If someone comes to us and says something to the effect of "hey, people are picking Quint for braindead win streaks, he's overpowered" we're all ears. Or if we're in a server, and everyone, during play, is making a consistent complaint about something, we take note. But if someone's complaining about a character being underpowered because they personally don't do well with them, or overpowered simply because they have a strong attack regardless of the situation that attack requires, not so much.
1) These are legitimate issues.
2) These scenarios are real.
3) I've stated multiple times that I play this game and sometimes alias when joining a justified server. Read please.
4) Bots can be used to determine damage values. You're literally saying ring boomerang isn't overpowered because bots use it.
5) If you were all ears then you would've read the Pluto complaints about "braindead win streaks". You're a hypocrite.
6) "Listening to people on servers is also not such a good idea, neither is someone dominating with a class so they can nerf it"
7) If people are picking Quint for braindead winstreaks, that falls under "someone complaining about a strong attack regardless of the situation that attack requires", which, if I recall, you take note. However, you just said you don't take note. Which is it?
Listen Rozark, if your scenarios were real and were legitimate Shmeckie and I would've seen them at least once or twice since we play the mod more than you do. We would've heard more complaints on servers that Pluto is OP, like Coldman and King. We also would've seen a lot of people spamming the life out of the class in servers and doing really well, but we haven't. "Listening to people on servers is not such a good idea, neither someone dominating with a class so they can nerf it", did you make up this quote because I don't remember Shmeckie saying this.
Are you done being difficult Shmeckie? Because all I've read from you is:
A) Asking for, then refusing, feedback from not one, but at least 5+ different people.
B) Refusing to acknowledge that I play this game and that my feedback is useful.
C) Refusing to acknowledge that the developer goal isn't being played out and then fixing it.
D) Refusing to acknowledge that your tester's sense of balance might be a bit off, however, you're doing this so you don't have to rebalance the entire mod.
E) Still advertising your Justified classes when all I want to do is play some freaking Vanilla TLMS.
Listen Rozark, your feedback hasn't been useful in the slightest and never has in the past. A proper criticism states what's wrong and then a suggestion on how to fix it, I haven't seen this from you instead all I've seen is complaints with little evidence. I would gladly rebalance the entire mod if it was necessary but it isn't, if you wanna name more classes you think are imbalanced go ahead, also say what you would like to see changed and not something vague like nerf or buff the guy. Try and explain how you would want to see him buffed or nerfed like: make his mainfire do more damage or lower his speed. Also I definitely don't advertise Justified in other servers and I don't even see Shmeckie join other servers so I'm not sure what you're talking about with us "advertising".
For example, Slashman. He has all those knicknacks and jumping abilities to use at his disposal, but consider this; a slashman that knows how to aim jumps. SUDDENLY, he's flying all over the place, impossible to hit, and he instantly murders you the moment he falls. And for the information of you guys here, that slash dash is a lot more useful than you guys say it is. 'Used mainly for ambushes' simply isn't true, even though that's your INTENTION. I've seen entire teams dominated by one guy who spams the slash dash and, not to sound rude, he wasn't on par with the guys fighting in terms of skill. He simply aimed, dashed, and got kills. This 'ambushing' aspect is completely thrown out the window by the fact that he has a)Normal armor, and b)Moves fast as hell while using it. Did I mention he can slash immediately after it's finished, leaving you pretty much fucked even as a tank class?
OK first of all, no one said the slash dash was made for ambushes; I use it all the time. I've also never seen any problems with Slash Dash myself in terms of abuse-ability and definitely never seen a guy kill whole team with him that "wasn't on par with the guys fighting in terms of skill". I also know from previous posts from you James that you're swayed a lot if a guy keeps killing you with a class i.e. Buster Rod G who I know is definitely balanced and based on your past post about the same thing where you complained about a guy in duel using the slash dash. Nonetheless I'll check for myself to see if the slash dash is all that bad with Clay later just to be sure.
Another example, Shademan. Whoever coded his flight needs to look at it, since (Again, not to sound rude) any butthead who knows how to use the flight can decimate an enemy team. His dive saps HP, and can immediately be used again if he comes in contact with ground of any sort during it. Not to mention he can use his noise crush while in midair.
As of v3 Jupiter and Shademan's flight was nerfed, so you can't immediately use it again when he comes in contact with the ground.
A final example, the most brainless of them all right now; King. I know I'm beating a dead horse with this guy, but something needs to be done. For starters, that jump slash is an instant kill on nearly anything, and even if he misses he can instantly slash normally once it's done. And he doesn't even need to take that high a leap; a simple hop will do. Coupled with his speed, that's all kinda of borken. Secondly, his shield is complete ass by itself. It's exceedingly hard to aim, barely blocks projectiles (Fought a Flashman, shoot THROUGH my shield with his buster most of the time, shield barely reflected some of his shots) and the damage doesn't warrant use of it. Third, that X attack. That thing hurts WAY too much for something that spammy. I don't care if it branches off at a certain distance; simply turn before you fire and limit gone. I was able to completely obliterate a hardman, a HARDMAN, in nearly an instant because of this X attack. She fought valiantly, but even though she hit with all she had, my X attack simply does too much damage to warrant my giving a shit for her puny attempts to kill a broken class. THEN, THERE'S THE DASH. It reflects things. Why? Why does it shoot things back at my enemies? I've essentially made classes like BRG useless with it, and in some instances, made it completely backfire on him (ice experienced these things firsthand; sorry buddy). The thing has wonky-as-hell hit detection, since I fully charged into a Groundman and only hit him once, while an Elecman couldn't move even when I accidentally dashed past him. Last, but certainly not least, we have the laser. This thing is spam taken to another level. Simply look in someone's general direction, spam the laser, and get kills. It's a fucking GEMINI LASER WITH A DAMAGE BUFF. AND IT DOESN'T EVEN USE AMMO.
OK first of all, we all know that King is OP, though some of things you're saying is wrong. Shield form's shield barely protects anything unless you're holding mainfire, we did this so that it's not abusable (similar to Knightman). I also disagree with X attack being OP since you can barely move while using it so it makes you completely vulnerable as such and also give a warning sound before using it as well as has delay before shooting. The dash isn't being nerfed either because it needs all your ammo to use and I have no idea what you mean with "wonky-as-hell hit detection". Also the laser does less damage than Geminiman's laser and it doesn't last as long, just sayin'. As for nerfs, we're gonna make you need to have a full jump to use the mainfire (if we can pull off the code dunno), ground slashing is gonna have a RoF nerf and you're gonna stop longer after hitting the ground when using the vertical chop. Vertical chop's gonna get a slight damage nerf so it can't OHKO. Altfire's gonna use ammo so that you can't use the fully charged mainfire as much and we're gonna try to change the invincibility when switching weapons to an armour buff instead.
You guys talk of putting everyone on even playing fields, and while I respect that, that's simply not happening here and you guys need to get cracking on it.
We've already known about King being OP for a while now and he will be nerfed next version since I've seen for myself numerous times and have seen a bunch of people complaining about the same thing; I disagree with the rest of your complaints though.
My bad lol(click to show/hide)
Not that I have anything else to contribute to the discussion but um... *cough*
Homing shots weren't the problem, the dash was. You completely ignored the broken part of the class and nerfed something that was so-so.
I'd just like to point out that you never addressed the "incredibly dodgey, high armor" aspect of the dash. Which is imbalanced.
Listen Rozark, your feedback hasn't been useful in the slightest and never has in the past. A proper criticism states what's wrong and then a suggestion on how to fix it, I haven't seen this from you instead all I've seen is complaints with little evidence.
Try and explain how you would want to see him buffed or nerfed like: make his mainfire do more damage or lower his speed.
"at least 4-5 other people", the only people that have expressed the same things you have are ForteGigas and Korby. ForteGigas gets literally all of his balance from bots which is an invalid source and Korby barely plays Justified Classes as far as I can tell.
4) Bots can be used to determine damage values. You're literally saying ring boomerang isn't overpowered because bots use it.
Listen Rozark, if your scenarios were real and were legitimate Shmeckie and I would've seen them at least once or twice since we play the mod more than you do. We would've heard more complaints on servers that Pluto is OP, like Coldman and King. We also would've seen a lot of people spamming the life out of the class in servers and doing really well, but we haven't. "Listening to people on servers is not such a good idea, neither someone dominating with a class so they can nerf it", did you make up this quote because I don't remember Shmeckie saying this.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with us "advertising".
You guys talk of putting everyone on even playing fields, and while I respect that, that's simply not happening here and you guys need to get cracking on it.
Quote from: "Fyone in blue letters""at least 4-5 other people", the only people that have expressed the same things you have are ForteGigas and Korby. ForteGigas gets literally all of his balance from bots which is an invalid source and Korby barely plays Justified Classes as far as I can tell.
So you ARE confirming that you only listen to a select source group of people, you know, something I brought up back in the whole "Remove health in DM" topic. Ok. This confirms it.Quote from: "Perfectlylegit"You guys talk of putting everyone on even playing fields, and while I respect that, that's simply not happening here and you guys need to get cracking on it.
This guy also wins, you're still picking and choosing which feedback to listen to: The Source Group.
Quote from: "Fyone in blue letters"I'm not sure what you're talking about with us "advertising".
Don't you play dumb with me we all know it's happening.
(click to show/hide)
Not that I have anything else to contribute to the discussion but um... *cough*
Favoritism
Korby barely plays Justified Classes as far as I can tell.
Coldman is in need of a tiny buff, particularly speaking of his alt. Whenever I freeze someone with it, it's nearly impossible to follow up with an Ice Wall because the stun will fade in mere seconds, allowing my target to escape. The cooldown for his alt doesn't help either in time for me to get a good attack. I suggest that Coldman's alt should either have increased stun time or a decreased cooldown.
Skipping over whatever is going on in those last few pages with Rozark, can Dive Man's missiles get a buff? He has trouble dealing damage with either of his attacks, since one of them is slow and shoot-able and the other is kind of hard to control. I know how crazy Dive Man was in previous builds/KY classes, but now he doesn't really have anything going for him. There's no real draw to playing as Dive Man other than to sit in a corner and see if you can pester someone with Dive Missiles, and then dash away if any other class starts coming near you.
I'd probably just make them a tad faster since it's difficult for them to even get to their target without being shot down or running out of range. The damage is fine, it's just hard to get them to hit in general.
Can I ask you guys to tone down the asshole level with Darkman1? He spams that dash and that shot that saps a 5th of your hp isn't too good either, especially when your class can't dish out damage on something that hugs for days (Like gemini). And i know that could be argued a challenge, but there's a difference between 'challenging' and 'unfair'.I honestly don't think there's any problems with Darkman 1, he's a fairly hard class to use well from my experience. On Geminiman's part, we'll probably buff the laser next version and Crashman will probably have a RoF nerf.
Also, speaking of Geminiman, his laser could use a slight damage buff. Right now it's kinda weak to the point of where the buster is almost always the preferred option, not that gemini gets many kills anyway. The guys that are skilled with him use the buster over the laser, and even then they normally rely on their teammates rather than themselves, being screwed over if they're isolated. Most other classes can get around isolation, someties benefitting from it, but Gemini almost always has to rely on the rooms being small to do well.
Oh, and can you make crashman not brainless? I mean this in the sense of nerf his ripper damage. It hurts so much that a continuous stream, which is easy to hit with, can take out almost anyone. Not to mention hitting someone with it at their feet will immediately make the bomb go off, resulting in stun, thus easier targetting.
My beef is with Grenade man:I'll check Grenademan over, personally I haven't had any troubles fighting him and I never felt particularly OP when using him however if need be we'll probably nerf his speed slightly and possibly the ammo regen as well.
He is too easy to dominate with, and a pain to play against.
He is already as fast as Megaman (he may not seem that fast when you play him, but its because his view height is pretty high, being a taller character, so it's deceiving)
I feel he should be a touch slower.
His dash can be used unlimited times in a row, and you can cancel it right into an attack.(He shouldn't be able to close any gap as easily as he does, especially while simultaneously flashbombing)
Here are some suggestions on what I would do to fix it
-the first three, I feel need a change for sure-
1. I feel his movement speed should be .1 to .2 slower than it is now. (definitely needs a change)
2. Prevent him from firing when dashing (definite change)
3. Have a bit more time in between dashes, or link the dash to using his main ammo. (definite change)
-optional changes below-
4. Either make him stop moving while firing Flashbombs , slow down the Flashbombs, or reduce their damage by 5-10 percent in damage(one of these 3 would be nice)
5. Either make his Flashbombs cost a little tiny bit more, or slow down his ammo regen.(if you make his dash cost his main ammo, ignore all of #6)
Take Neptune; awhile back, some of the YD devteam popped in to play, and Celebi was complaining up and down about how weak and useless Neptune was. Try convincing the average J-Classes player of that now. Yet we never buffed him between when Celebi complained and now. Even I thought he was overly weak. Then I figured out how to actually get the most out of his arsenal, and that tune radically changed. 5HKO fast projectile thrown at a good arc with shrapnel projectiles and a strong AoE alt?Someone randomly informed me of this and wanted me to respond. I complained during v1 about Neptune. In v2 he received an area attack of 45 damage(currently 40 damage in v3bh) and 396 range. His main shot was also increased from 20>22 damage. That is all.
Can there be an indicator for where the lightning strike on dynamo is going to be going? I swear the aiming system for it is broken; I'll aim for someone's feet a ways in front of me and I'll hit two inches from myself
What I mean is, sometimes I SWEAR I've put a lightning bolt directly on somebody; cursor pointing to their feet, I'm on a platform above, everything looks good, and then the lightning bolt will completely miss him, going in front of, behind, or off to the side. One instance I was aiming directly at someone, and it went through the wall into the background. It happened on shadowmans stage, and I was in the middle aerial platform.Well the first set of Lightning Bolts automatically spawn to the right/left a bit, the next to the left/right a bit, and the last set in the place where you shot it. This might be what you're referring to?
Shockmanwut
Disconnected to this world.Quote from: "skully"Shockmanwut
Will King's bot be added in the new patch?Hopefully
Not sure if it's significant, but the boss rush is mostly fixed. There are a few bugs still.I will look into this, also bots hp scale the longer you survive.
Wave 50 (Wily) isn't wily. (It uses Quint because Quint's name is the closest to Wily I assume)
If Auto is chosen, it doesn't use the auto class.
Alien from Megaman 2 can show up, but there is no Alien class.
Not completely sure if this is correct, it's been a while since I've done boss rush.
Also, are the bots supposed to have lower hp then you? (Ex, killing bots with 2 hits with Buster Rod G's rod, killing bots with 1/2 harpoons, etc.)
For the next version of JC, here are some suggestions that might improve the mod (in a way) :PAlright out of the suggestions you provided we will be making Bass' treble boost last longer and buffing Junkman's Junk Shield in some way, thanks for the suggestions!
////////////////////////////////////////My suggestions/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
but being hitstunned and unable to get away by so many classes is just plain absurd.Which classes do you think have this problem the most? (Clownman is already one class that is going to have his hitstun lowered in the next patch.)
Quote from: "Ghoulitine"but being hitstunned and unable to get away by so many classes is just plain absurd.Which classes do you think have this problem the most? (Clownman is already one class that is going to have his hitstun lowered in the next patch.)
(btw, was'nt Coldman only weak to Dynamo Mans wep?)Actually Wave Burner deals 3 damage to Cold in M&B, the same amount that Ice Wall itself deals to Burner (not counting the spike damage which dealt 4 more damage on top of that)
Alright I'll probably lower Frostman's hitstun on the punch as well, but Crashman's Crash Bomber was meant to have high hitstun so I don't think that will be changing.Quote from: "Fyone"Quote from: "Ghoulitine"but being hitstunned and unable to get away by so many classes is just plain absurd.Which classes do you think have this problem the most? (Clownman is already one class that is going to have his hitstun lowered in the next patch.)
Aw, but I liked hitstun Clown. Anyway, while on the subject, despite me using Frostman as a main, I have noticed that he can have some pretty powerful hitstun on his punch and that's just no good (insert Sonic Sez clip here). I think this also happens with Crashman's Crash Bomber as well.
May not be a bug, was the stage a water stage? Oil Slider floats on water, even for underwater sections.
So I was messing around with Plant Man again. Boy, this guy is more messed up than I thought.
-Ammo recharges faster in the air than on the ground, meaning he has to constantly jump or find some way to stay airborne. I've mentioned this.
-Insane delay when it comes to actually firing. Applies to both the shield and buster. One time, I held down mainfire when I had a full shield bar, and it took about 3 seconds to trigger Plant Barrier.
-Something weird happens when you double-tap and hold jump. He gets a third bar, which seems to let him walljump in some situations.
I'm not sure how much of this is intended, but man, it doesn't seem like much of it is.
So I was messing around with Plant Man again. Boy, this guy is more messed up than I thought.As I stated before to your previous post, Plantman will be fixed in the next patch so not to worry!
-Ammo recharges faster in the air than on the ground, meaning he has to constantly jump or find some way to stay airborne. I've mentioned this.
-Insane delay when it comes to actually firing. Applies to both the shield and buster. One time, I held down mainfire when I had a full shield bar, and it took about 3 seconds to trigger Plant Barrier.
-Something weird happens when you double-tap and hold jump. He gets a third bar, which seems to let him walljump in some situations.
I'm not sure how much of this is intended, but man, it doesn't seem like much of it is.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but will Doc Robot's HUD be fixed? The aiming for him is a little bit off below the crosshair.
a bug i found when playing bot rush:Alright thanks for finding these, I'll get them fixed for the next patch.
if the bot is using venus,it is unable to shoot its homing bubbles and bubble mines (same with quick man and its abilities).
Sunstar shows up as a Terminator boss already though I too have always felt he never got the representation he deserves.
I'm not sure if this was reported or not but, I was trying Protoman today and when I killed Hardman, I didn't get his wep. I was offline, so I'm assuming this is just a bug with the bot and not something that occurs online?I'll check over the code for the pickup to make sure, thanks for reporting the bug!
i have a question: why sniper joe becomes break man in single mode?Can you elaborate? I'm not really sure what you mean.
Superb mod, I really like this over the other two class based modifications (even I'm totally new to this class based thing). I just can't get bored with King, it really catches my favorite style of play. :)The primary reason why we didn't make Sunstar a playable class is because he was the final boss for MMV; it would essentially be like making Evil Robot a playable class to an extent.
I have a question or a request... May Sunstar will be playable sometime? I like that character since my first time on GameBoy. Of course as a rebalanced class, not the overpower boss.
The primary reason why we didn't make Sunstar a playable class is because he was the final boss for MMV; it would essentially be like making Evil Robot a playable class to an extent.
i have a question: why sniper Joe becomes break man in single mode?Can you elaborate? I'm not really sure what you mean.
Yes, we are aware of the flying Oilman bot glitch; it'll be fixed next patch. As for King's double motion, I'll tweak his animation so it doesn't happen anymore. Thanks for reporting these bugs!
i just found out that if the bot is using hyperstorm h, he is unable to hit me (he keeps shooting just above my head (at lease in the bot rush mode)) and he won't use his alts (inhale,stomp 'n summon mets)I'll check over the HyperStorm H bot and fix it, and the Megaman 9 Classes will most likely be released after the core expansion for it is released.
also,just for curiosity,is there any speculated time for the possible mega man 9 classes? (if there's any plan on a update)
EDIT: speculated =/= stimulated :?
In CTF mode, every character with "item" ability can not use it after he/she drop the flag. The character change back, but it will not have the item icon. Not even able to activate it till the next respawn.Alright I'll fix this CTF item bug for the next patch.
Broken shields: Pretty much every shield feels like it works when it wants to.
Tho i think this has been discussed already (and is going to be fixed)
First off, still on ripping: Why is the MegaBuster a ripping projectile?
You actually have hit pretty much in the center of an enemy for it to deal decent dmg, but thats another thing.
Charged Mega Buster is a ripping projectile since it ripped to an extent in Megaman 5, I don't see any problem with this personally.
So, here are some complaints/suggestion/things i don't think are good for the mod :
Woodman: Well, i guess we all know that problem. Godmode seems a bit too much just for having leafshield out, how about a simple armor buff or make the shield destroyable?
If we were to make Woodman not invincible when Leaf Shield is up we would have to buff another area on him because he would be too weak without it.
Mercury: I do like this class, however, the alt should receive a change in my opinion.
Make mercury in blob-state a small damaging ripper kinda like pluto for example, and make the cooldown last a bit longer in exchange.
Another thing would be the drops themselves: launching them straight instead of a spread alone would make his alt more useful.
Then again, Mercury isnt really about damage, so yeah.
Personally I've always felt his altfire was fine but if others want it changed I'll reconsider.
Quint: I heard alot of complaints and controversies about this one.
And i can understand it. To a certain bit that is.
The sakugarne maybe should'nt thrust forward in the air as much as it does now, and that could be balanced by some kind of "quick-landing" move when alt is pressed.
Elaborate what you mean by "quick-landing", are you just asking for YD Quint?
Overall aiming issue on some classes: This isnt neccesarely bad, it's just an odd design choice: Some projectiles dont go exactly where the crosshair is (f.e. Mars' Photon Missile). Like i said, this doesnt have to be a bad thing.
Well Mars' Photon Missile doesn't go exactly from the crosshair since it comes from his forehead missile.
Broken shields: Pretty much every shield feels like it works when it wants to.
Tho i think this has been discussed already (and is going to be fixed)
I'll go over all the shields in the mod to make sure everything works properly I guess.
I think i can tolerate a bit more of the hitstun by now.
But that doesn't change the fact that i have to address the big hitboxes on some of the attack.
The biggest thread being Pharaoh Wave.
Is the hitbox actually bigger than the actual projectile?
I could be wrong, but oh well :L
Perhaps name some more that you feel are bigger than the sprite? I've never felt Pharaohman's Pharaoh Wave's hitbox was too big but that could just be me I guess.
So yeah, those are some few things that simply bugged me recently while playing.
Though i like the mod, it's just some things that annoy me and i'm sure most of the people, which maybe not listed here.
the infinite ammo they have (which IMO should get removed :P)A little quick thing: bots are hard to program to actively seek out ammo, making most fights go down to "wait for bots to have no ammo" if they didn't. also this is part of the core game, not of the mod.
i think the reason a bot gets stuck in it is because of the infinite ammo they have(which IMO should get removed :P)
Can I suggest something? I don't even know if this is possible in the game.I don't think this is possible to do, but I could be wrong.
It is extremly hard to fight against airborne opponent with Hyper Storm H. Could it be possible to make his "breath" more effective against airborn targets? Maybe a little too much, but this can goes for the jumping opponents too.
The damage output is right, I ask only the pull-push effects against the "non standing" enemies.
Actually I see the point of the ammo limit. Currently the bots sometimes has infinite ammo without the requirement of recharge (Buster Rod G for example, I can't get him from close range because he always use the illusions). Some class can overuse the infinite ammo, but this is only balance issue, can be fixed. Personally I prefer this unlimited ammo + ammo recharge system over the pick-up based. :)There are actually intervals between when bots can use special moves like Buster Rod G's illusions, so I'll raise the interval for Buster Rod G. If there are any other bots that spam special moves please post them in the topic so I can fix them too.
I think Mercury's alt is due for a change. I've been able to get it to work sometimes, but it's too difficult for what it's worth.We will most likely buff Mercury's blobs that he shoots while entering the altfire and make him have a weak hugger since he doesn't go invincible anymore when in blob form.
There are actually intervals between when bots can use special moves like Buster Rod G's illusions, so I'll raise the interval for Buster Rod G. If there are any other bots that spam special moves please post them in the topic so I can fix them too.
Oh, I see. I think in the case of Buster Rod G is not the intervals the problem (or not as like this). Buster Rod G regenerates his special during the use, and that special has a long usage time. I think that time is count as interval too. When the attack animation is finished, the waiting time already over.Well actually the way the intervals are coded for bots is by random chance, so I'll simply make it less likely for Buster Rod G to use his illusions.
The bots of Drill Man and Ground Man spam their specials way too much, and makes them just plain obnoxious to fight since they can't be attacked while they do it (arrrrghh!!).Alright I'll tone down Drillman and Groundman's specials too; thanks for reporting them!
There are actually intervals between when bots can use special moves like Buster Rod G's illusions, so I'll raise the interval for Buster Rod G. If there are any other bots that spam special moves please post them in the topic so I can fix them too.aqua man spam his special moves a lot,making very frustrating to either duel or have a deathmatch. tone down flash man's,doc's and bright's time stopper/flash stopper ability.as beed28 said,drill and ground spam their digging moves too quickly,making unbeareble to fight against.tone down centaur man invisible technique and centaur flash.tone down a bit heat man's heat tackle.tone down Pluto's dash and ledge grab abilities.tone down wind man and tengu man flying ability.feel free to disagree with me on something.
Since we sort of covered the Genesis Unit, I'd like to report some bugs/issues regarding them.
Buster Rod G.
*As several people have complained, his illusions do have a rather short cool down time while at the same time, do insane damage. If we went the route with the regenerating ammo after it's done, I believe that would fix the illusion issue for now.
Ok I can do that.
*Sometimes when spawning, the first attack done with the rod doesn't show up. (EX: You spawn as him, and then try a rod attack. Sometimes, it doesn't show up)
This could just be an engine problem, but I'll look through the code to see if I can fix it.
*Going back to the shield thought, Buster Rod G's rod deflect doesn't block most shots. From what I noticed, if the shot generally pierces, it won't be blocked. However, there are some instances where a non-ripping shot just won't be blocked. I don't know if its because of the weapon, or the hit-scan on the blocking isn't working.
Seeing as the shield spawns repeatedly every tic now I don't know why it wouldn't block most shots. Do you know which projectiles specifically weren't blocked?
*Regarding the shield and illusions, if you deflect while using illusions, you get the blocking sound of the illusions hitting the rod deflect.
I'll fix this.
Mega Water S.
*The only thing I could suggest, is possibly make his altfire more push worthy? Against a moving target, it doesn't really hinder them. In fact, I find his altfire without the shield useless except when someone is afk and you want to fool around with them.
Do you just want us to make the push stronger?
*Possible damage nerf to his harpoons? It's currently at 20, which is rather high for a fast moving, high rate of fire shot. If the damage was lowered to 18, would it compromise his kit? (It would go from a 5 hits to 6 hits)
It already does 18 damage and kills in 6 hits...
Hyper Storm H.
*As mentioned, the bot version shoots above the player's hitbox. However, he never stops using his breath, and therefore never does his hyper stomp move. Would it be possible to variate his attack pattern? (Ex: At far range, use primary to try and snipe them. Close Range would switch to his sucking that lasts a certain amount of time equivalent to approximately how long an actual player can suck. And then add a chance for him to use the meteor jump.)
Yeah I can do this.
*I assume it's the ceiling in most cases, but sometimes the metools spawned from his hyper stomp instantly die/disappear. (You can see that the animation where they are destroyed) Is it possible to fix this?
The metools are coded to spawn from the ceiling so if they die it means they are most likely too close to a wall nearby.
As for some other classes, I'd like to point out Time Man. Is it just me, or do his attacks do very little damage when compared to some other robot masters? I know the time arrows rip, and having a slowed enemy makes it easier to land, but in most cases, the damage output is still low for him.
Personally I don't see Time Man as underpowered but if other people agree I can probably buff him in some way.
aqua man spam his special moves a lot,making very frustrating to either duel or have a deathmatch. tone down flash man's,doc's and bright's time stopper/flash stopper ability.as beed28 said,drill and ground spam their digging moves too quickly,making unbeareble to fight against.tone down centaur man invisible technique and centaur flash.tone down a bit heat man's heat tackle.tone down Pluto's dash and ledge grab abilities.tone down wind man and tengu man flying ability.feel free to disagree with me on something.I only agree with the bot fixes, I don't feel any of the classes you named are overpowered with their abilities personally.
also,another thing:sword man's "flying sword ability" is different with the bots. instead of going forward and backward,it keeps going forward until it stops. and when it stops,it always teleports the bot to the area it stopped.
EDIT:something needs to be done with wood man. i don't like the god mode idea
Quote from: "Meme Man"aqua man spam his special moves a lot,making very frustrating to either duel or have a deathmatch. tone down flash man's,doc's and bright's time stopper/flash stopper ability.as beed28 said,drill and ground spam their digging moves too quickly,making unbeareble to fight against.tone down centaur man invisible technique and centaur flash.tone down a bit heat man's heat tackle.tone down Pluto's dash and ledge grab abilities.tone down wind man and tengu man flying ability.feel free to disagree with me on something.I only agree with the bot fixes, I don't feel any of the classes you named are overpowered with their abilities personally.
also,another thing:sword man's "flying sword ability" is different with the bots. instead of going forward and backward,it keeps going forward until it stops. and when it stops,it always teleports the bot to the area it stopped.
EDIT:something needs to be done with wood man. i don't like the god mode idea
Somehow I figured out the things. Most of the shields are not works against projectiles which can hit multiple times (sometime it is reflect the first hit, but sometime not). For example King unable to use the reflect shield against Gyro Man, its attack will always hit King. The standard shield sometimes able to guard the very first hit. The same goes against Cut Man or Metal Man.
What I seemed to notice is the exact same thing. Projectiles that seem to hit multiple times (aka ripping) are the ones that seem to go through shields. (BRG's rod deflect as well). I believe projectiles like Tomahawk feathers, Thunder beam shots and Gemini Lasers go through shields. I also know for a fact that BRG's illusions can also go through shields. (A defending Saturn or King for example).
so when i was playing bot apoc with JC,i find somebody who abused this glitch:
he was frost man. he kept spamming the ice wave,but with one detail:the ice wave went so slow it looked like it wouldn't move (i have some pics but i don't know how to post them.help me :?
also,why people are not playing JC that much nowadays? i only see people playing bot apocalypse with JC and even then not that much people join (and sometimes it can get pretty annoying and boring fighting the bots)
Enjoy it ^^
I re-did the server because i havent upload the good config files (for map rotation), now you can votemap for all the maps of the mappacks.
And yeah, King is strong and very enjoyable (a lot of weapons/attacks for him).
In response to all of the bot (apocalypse) problems, I'll look into them to see if I can fix them.Quote from: "Endymion"Somehow I figured out the things. Most of the shields are not works against projectiles which can hit multiple times (sometime it is reflect the first hit, but sometime not). For example King unable to use the reflect shield against Gyro Man, its attack will always hit King. The standard shield sometimes able to guard the very first hit. The same goes against Cut Man or Metal Man.
What I seemed to notice is the exact same thing. Projectiles that seem to hit multiple times (aka ripping) are the ones that seem to go through shields. (BRG's rod deflect as well). I believe projectiles like Tomahawk feathers, Thunder beam shots and Gemini Lasers go through shields. I also know for a fact that BRG's illusions can also go through shields. (A defending Saturn or King for example).
After testing for quite a bit ripping weapons do not seem to go through shields but instead it is due to the definitions in specific projectiles from what I can see so I'll have to try to go through all the classes to try and fix this (Gyroman's attack isn't even a ripper for example). If projectiles like MetalBlade go through a shield it's simply because the projectile didn't hit the shield since we purposely made base shields (i.e. Knightman not holding altfire) smaller.
As for MWS, most of the time his shots do 20 damage. It could be armor values being the reason why. Also, increasing the push's strength for his alt should fix this.
ok
Should the shields be able to block (Or have a chance to block) melee damage? (EX: Slash man, Roll, etc?)
I remember us making Slashman able to go through shields purposely, I don't think other melee damage is supposed to however so this again has to do with the above I mentioned.
Back to Timeman, I actually realized that he does decent damage, however, I think one point that could use improvement is his alt-fire (The two angled shots). They move really slow, (which is fine) however the rate of fire is noticeably lower than his primary while also doing lower damage. Could that get a slight rate of fire buff?
ok
I know I'm fighting a useless battle regarding woodman, but what about lowering the rate of reloading ammo? (After you fire the shield, lower the regen rate of the ammo slightly.) In turn, could you possibly lower the amount required to have the raining leaves fall? (It currently requires approx 75% of the bar. What if it was lowered to 60% because it generates at a slightly lower rate?)
ok
I don't know if this is a bug, but Buster Rod G's illusion has some strange possibilities.I'll fix this, some other classes had this problem as well in the past so shouldn't be too hard to fix.
When Buster Rod G stands on a "non stable" surface (like the sand or the water on some maps" he can't use his illusions properly. If you press the button nothings happen, then he suddenly jumps forward. So the attack actually launched, but the projectiles will not travel anywhere (maybe as he sink, the projectiles hit the sand and disappears). I hope this will be fixed or changed, I just started to enjoy that class. XD
I don't really get why Duo should be changed in such a way. Kind of odd.
Speaking of which, shouldn't Duo's fist be on his left?
Is it just me, or is this not compatible with the latest version...I keep getting errors when I try to use it.
I know a semi-okay solution for weapons that you need to switch to use. (Like BRG's Rod to his buster)
Bind mwheelup weapnext
Bind mwheeldown weapprev
Doublebind mwheelup weapprev
Doublebind mwheeldown weapnext
This essentially is redundant, but the reason why is because if you're on one weapon, it doesn't let you switch to the other going the same direction. If you doublebind it though, going the same direction will make it go backwards to the weapon that you want.
Otherwise, I think it's a mod problem at the moment, as weapon scrolling works fine in both directions for vanilla.
There are also a weakness-system. That would change the tiers. For example, Metal Man easily kill Wood Man, Wood Man easily kill Air Man.
What was exactly "broken" on Plant Man bay the way?Plant Man was really messed up. Plant Barrier barely recharged at all if you were grounded, requiring you to jump constantly for the short bursts of faster ammo regeneration. Sometimes his attacks would have mysterious delays on them. His wall jump could be used to attain some short-range flight. He's apparently been watered since then, and now it's all good.
EDIT: Actually, there is something I've been wondering about. Rockman Shadow's color schemes. His buster uses Hyper Bomb/Leaf Shield/Centaur Flash colors, his slash uses Slash Claw colors, and his sprite itself is black and slightly-less-black. What's going on there?The Terminators still need work. A focus on refining Terminator is on the to-do list.
But when I start the mod, some red colored text are showed up. These are about something failed registration, and sprite sizes.
There are an another bunch about Roll's different costumes as it too wide and resizing.*Cough* Player.MaxSkinSizeFactor *Cough* (Seriously, though. This is a thing now.)
I still don't think it's a good idea to give Bomb Man his "canon"-bombthrowing, it really feels awkward when you have to look down to hit someone in your front.
Something else that bugs me are some "out-of-jail-cards", by that i mean moves that render you invincible and immune to damage while maintaning a decent movement.
(f.e. Duo, Centaur Man, Ground Man, Drill Man, Clown Man, Wood Man especially etc.)
Why not Heat? Cause you know, Heat beats Wood, Metal is just effective. Bubble follows Metal in the natural flow.Quote from: "Ghoulitine"I still don't think it's a good idea to give Bomb Man his "canon"-bombthrowing, it really feels awkward when you have to look down to hit someone in your front.
Something else that bugs me are some "out-of-jail-cards", by that i mean moves that render you invincible and immune to damage while maintaning a decent movement.
(f.e. Duo, Centaur Man, Ground Man, Drill Man, Clown Man, Wood Man especially etc.)
Somehow I think you are right. The invincibility itself is canon, but you can outmatch these in the official games (Ground Man can't dig if you use the remote mine for example). The invincibility basically not problem but it can be overused. Maybe if some weapons could damage (or remove temporary the invincibility) during that time, it would be a less frustrating sometimes. For example Metal Man could hurt Wood Man, but with shield do half damage, or something like this.
Burner Man's stage's fire is still pieces of blue Burner Man, but aside from that minor issue, I officially have no complaints about the mod at all.I'll fix this, I simply forgot to overwrite the mistake in the patch that was made in the original file.
I never knew about "Player.MaxSkinSizeFactor" so thanks for reporting this, I'll add it in the next release.Quote from: "Endymion"But when I start the mod, some red colored text are showed up. These are about something failed registration, and sprite sizes.Quote from: "Endymion"There are an another bunch about Roll's different costumes as it too wide and resizing.*Cough* Player.MaxSkinSizeFactor *Cough* (Seriously, though. This is a thing now.)(click to show/hide)
Something else that bugs me are some "out-of-jail-cards", by that i mean moves that render you invincible and immune to damage while maintaning a decent movement.In response to all of the complaints about classes receiving invincibility, I personally do not see any of these classes as overpowered in their own right but I can see why they would be annoying in matches (especially LMS gamemodes). After going through all of these classes Woodman specifically would most likely be the most annoying due to him having the most amount of use of his invincible ability which is due to it being his primary attack; however I think without this Woodman would be a pretty terrible class and be very underpowered. The best solution that I can think of for Woodman would be to decrease his base movement speed slightly or decrease his movement speed when having the shield up similar to how he worked before. I think making specific attacks able to go through his shield would just make him very hard to use against those classes making him almost impossible to come as the victor in those scenarios which is something I want to try and avoid for every class in this mod. The rest of the classes (i.e. Duo, Centaurman, Groundman, Drillman, and Clownman) all have a relatively low use of their invincible abilities because it requires them to have full ammo to use their ability, their ammo regeneration is pretty low, and it only fills when they are not using any of their other attacks.
(f.e. Duo, Centaur Man, Ground Man, Drill Man, Clown Man, Wood Man especially etc.)
Ground Man with two ways of escaping tricky scenarios for him on top of a relatively quick ammo recharge rate and what appears to be higher armor (I must admit I don't know much about Justified values, pardon) makes him one of the most frustrating things I've encountered while playing this game. Add that onto his decently damaging room clearer projectile and an early execute in enclosed areas, and you get a class who will consistently survive to the late game and pick off remaining opponents.Groundman specifically out of all the classes with invincible abilities has two of such abilities so I can see why he also would be one of the bigger annoyances in matches (especially LMS gamemodes) however I disagree with him having a relatively fast ammo regeneration rate and instead would consider his ammo regeneration rate to be relatively low especially with him having to not attack for it to recharge. However with this in mind I do think reducing his potential time spent underground would be a good nerf to his abilities.
I don't play deathmatch period so I have no idea how he plays there, but in elimination-based game modes he's a complete burden on the enemy team. Lowering his ammo regen and/or reducing his potential time spent in the ground would allow him to still remain an offensive power, but would give better counterplay to his opponents to help circumvent a perfect scenario for elimination Ground Man.
IMO,he's too stronk. a magic ball which can spawn semi-homing birds. a magic orb which can deny projectile and turn then into various decoys. a magic card with can give him health.
In response to all of the complaints about classes receiving invincibility, I personally do not see any of these classes as overpowered in their own right but I can see why they would be annoying in matches (especially LMS gamemodes). After going through all of these classes Woodman specifically would most likely be the most annoying due to him having the most amount of use of his invincible ability which is due to it being his primary attack; however I think without this Woodman would be a pretty terrible class and be very underpowered. The best solution that I can think of for Woodman would be to decrease his base movement speed slightly or decrease his movement speed when having the shield up similar to how he worked before. I think making specific attacks able to go through his shield would just make him very hard to use against those classes making him almost impossible to come as the victor in those scenarios which is something I want to try and avoid for every class in this mod. The rest of the classes (i.e. Duo, Centaurman, Groundman, Drillman, and Clownman) all have a relatively low use of their invincible abilities because it requires them to have full ammo to use their ability, their ammo regeneration is pretty low, and it only fills when they are not using any of their other attacks.
For me, groundman need this possibility to escape when he is on the ceiling, he is slow (specially with strafe), it can help him, but yeah, in TLMS, in some maps, he can be pretty boring but it's not a big deal anyways, just try to be not far from him when he "escapes".
For Woodman, i dont see any way, maybe slower when he uses the shield ?
For Magicman, the magicball hurts yeah + combo with birds.... maybe if it needs a little more time to charge the ball?
Enker need the ripping because he is hard to use, specially in TLMS..... :X
EDIT: With muzaru, we have tested the damage of Doc Robot,i like a lot this classe, but the crashbomb seems to be the problem, again....the crashbomb, even with 2 crashbomb with 1 ammo bar, have a high speed for the regen, you can use it quickly....but the worst is the damage i think....we tested Doc on Geminiman, it does 70 damage ( Crashbomb+explosion), and the damage of the crashbomb without the explosion (just the ripper effect), finished him (so, more than 30 damage), i dont know exactly the armor of geminiman, but i think it's a normal armor.... There is the stun of the crashbomb too but it needs it to keep canon. The best could be a simple nerf of it. If you see crashman, his crashbomb are strong yet....and even if Doc use 2 crashbomb and need to wait for the ammo bar, he can always use the second weapon to help himself......
(i think personnaly, the heat pillars need a little buff...it seems weak to kill but can be used for a defense anyways).
What do you think about it guys? ^^
i notice a weakness error
cold is weak to burner. it should be the opposite
It's still the most effective weapon against him, dealing 3 damage then an additional 8 (while everything else does 1 or none), but unluck other bosses if your timing is off you will miss completely unless he is attacking. Cold takes 2 from Wave Burner, which is still 1 less from LS' 3.
On that note, what's the deal with MM1 RM weaknesses? Ice and Bomb only use their MM1 weaknesses, not their Powered Up ones as well, as is done with Guts Man and Elec Man (or so it seems, just looking at the code). Ice should be weak to Thunder Beam and Hyper Bomb, and Bomb should be weak to Fire Storm and Rolling Cutter, if you want to make them uniform.Every MM1 class only uses their MM1 weaknesses unless they were weak to Oilman or Timeman in PoweredUp in which case they would be weak to them as well.
Just dropping by to mention that while playing CTF yesterday, some classes such as Mars did not turn into Alien upon picking up the enemy flag. Might wanna look into it, thought I don't remember which others had this issue.CTF, Possession, and Terminator are still being fixed; they will be fixed for the next release!
I just played some matches with Flash Man. His fire animation is just a single arm swing instead of pointing his gun continuously. The Time Stoper's animation however continuous till you hold the fire button. If think this could be reversed. :)Alright, I can make this adjustment to Flashman's fire animation; thanks for the suggestion!
You're welcome. We are the ones who need to say thank you for all of your efforts.Mercury used to be invincible in slime form but it was removed due to the many complaints on the subject so now he only gets double armour. I'll look into the shield problems you mentioned and will fix them for next release.
===EDIT===
Just a suggestion: Shouldn't Mercury be invincible while he is in slime form?
===An another edit===
I just noticed that, Skull Man's every second shot is able to penetrate the shields. After two hour playing I realized that, the shields can not be penetrated (except of the homing weapons which will be fixed). However King's reflect stance is weak. It let some projectiles to pass through, mostly right after a reflected shot.
The same goes for Aqua Man's Water Balloon. It can hit through the reflect stance of King. There are several weapons which does damage through King's raised shields. Some of the can be blocked with normal shields, but some other pass through every shield.
As I mentioned, Aqua Man is one of them. But Blizzard man can shoot through King's shield with Blizzard Attack too.
They can shoot through the shield especially when they can shoot fast against King's raised shield. It is really unprotected during the reflect motion.
Ehm, i dont know if someone already posted this, but there is an Proto Man related issue:No this was not intentional, and I'll get right on to fixing this Protoman bug.
This bug seems to occur only on chargeable weapons, those being Homing Sniper and Noise Crush.
When Proto Man gets the kill and the weapon, the weapon will be already charged for multiple shots.
Noise Crush is prett interesting in that sense: You can basically shoot the small waves in a straight line, and every wave you catch back,
will be stored in your wep until you change weapons.
Noise Crush also already starts with some charged shots saved in it.
So, you can guess that a rapid fire charge shot - Noise Crush weapon can be pretty gamebreaking.
Or is this intentional for some reason?
Mercury used to be invincible in slime form but it was removed due to the many complaints on the subject so now he only gets double armour. I'll look into the shield problems you mentioned and will fix them for next release.
Wood Man isn't that good. He'd be pretty useless without that temporary invincibility.
You don't justify broken abilities with design flaws that can be easily fixed. Imagine a Mario that is only able to kill enemies by jumping on them 20 times, and having a triggerable Starman that only protects him from dying, but doesn't kill enemies: essentially, you're saying this Mario would be pretty useless without the Starman, overlooking the big ass elephant inside the room.That's a damn good point, actually.
Woodman being partially vulnerable while his shield is up is a good way to start on improving him (plus, he also was partially vulnerable in MM2 while his shield was up). This would also call on buffing his shield projectile in some way, while also tuning down the spawning rate of Leaf Rain projectiles and making their travel trajectory more consistent (falling straight down).Yeah, that's the main problem with removing Leaf Shield's invulnerability - at the moment, he doesn't really have any other huge strengths. Leaf Shield is pretty slow and easy to dodge, Leaf Rain requires that the enemy be close, and he just gets torn apart from a distance. Buffing Leaf Shield and implementing some partial vulnerability might just work.
To all the Woodman complaints I suggest waiting until next release before thinking of more nerfs to Woodman, in addition to the movement speed nerf while the shield is up we decided to also nerf his ammo regen a bit and I personally think this should be enough. (@MusashiAA: Woodman was also not partially vulnerable in Megaman 2 when the shield was up just to clarify, he was completely invincible from all of Megaman's weapons.
EDIT: I could be wrong but Crash Bomb's explosion might've been able to hit Woodman through the shield in Megaman 2 so this may be something to consider with all explosion weapons.)
To all the Woodman complaints I suggest waiting until next release before thinking of more nerfs to Woodman, in addition to the movement speed nerf while the shield is up we decided to also nerf his ammo regen a bit and I personally think this should be enough.
Woodman was also not partially vulnerable in Megaman 2 when the shield was up just to clarify, he was completely invincible from all of Megaman's weapons.
What arm and/or leg animations were different?I think he's referring to Bass having kind of like cuffs, this can be seen in MMSP for when Bass uses for example his version of Rolling Cutter.
It is just a suggestion, but Terra's teleport could be targeted anywhere. Now he teleport only straight forward, but it would be cool if he can teleport towards the crosshair. Of course only the same distance as he teleport now.We were going to do this at one point but we felt that it would probably be too good if Terra was able to teleport at any angle. Terra's stun does do damage but very little if I remember correctly.
Also a question. Does the Stun Chaser damage the oppenent, or it is only stun him/she?
We were going to do this at one point but we felt that it would probably be too good if Terra was able to teleport at any angle. Terra's stun does do damage but very little if I remember correctly.
Quote from: "Perfectlylegit"What arm and/or leg animations were different?I think he's referring to Bass having kind of like cuffs, this can be seen in MMSP for when Bass uses for example his version of Rolling Cutter.Quote from: "Endymion"It is just a suggestion, but Terra's teleport could be targeted anywhere. Now he teleport only straight forward, but it would be cool if he can teleport towards the crosshair. Of course only the same distance as he teleport now.We were going to do this at one point but we felt that it would probably be too good if Terra was able to teleport at any angle. Terra's stun does do damage but very little if I remember correctly.
Also a question. Does the Stun Chaser damage the oppenent, or it is only stun him/she?
If Terra can teleport at any angle, he could escape too easily....... like some spot over some places, not a good idea I think. :/
Something isn't right with Hyper Storm H's breath. For example it can't hit Yamato Man when he is just standing before Hyper Storm H. You must to jump for being able to utilize the beath's melee damage.I found the issue I think, thanks for reporting this bug!
Hold:
POWA A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("PowerAdaptorMeter",32,"Charge2")
POWA A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("PowerAdaptorMeter",18,"Charge")
POWA B 1 A_GiveInventory("PowerAdaptorMeter",1)
POWA A 0 A_Refire
Goto Ready+1actor PowerAdaptorMeter : Ammo
{
inventory.amount 1
inventory.maxamount 28
}
Not sure if this was already reported, but the obituaries that appear when a player is killed by a homing weapon like Terra's Spark Chaser and Magnet Man's Magnet Missiles, are that of Hexen's Bloodscourge. This has been happening on Zan 2.0 onwards.Yeah this has been fixed for next release thanks for reporting nonetheless!
This report isn't quite as exact as I'd like and most of these could probably be shrugged off depending on how much you care about sprites though I think that quite a few of the sprites in JC could really be benefitted from being changed to make more sense or to just look better. That sounds rather vague so I'll probably go more in depth, with examples such as Breakman's custom air frames. Whenever he's jumping normally, his buster is on his right arm, though whenever he actually fires it, it's suddenly on his left arm. Another example is the Mega Arm's shading which contrasts to that of Megaman's actual skinsprite. While it's not exactly the most noticable, it is jarring once you do notice it. The main issue being is it's not the same shade of blue on the returning shot, and not even the black outline is the same shade. One more example that I immediately notice is with Bass's Treble Boost skin sprites. He looks just fine whenever standing though once he actually fires, it creates a wonky effect that Doom is plagued with where the sprites jerk back and forth. Some of the offsets could also be looked at such as Megaman's Power Adaptor skin which seems to jerk back and forth as well. There's probably a lot more issues to name, though I wouldn't want to create a wall of text here. Anyway, I mostly just suggest looking at the sprites in-game and out of game as they aren't the best they could be.We'll try our best to fix the sprites where we can but it's hard to do all that you want since a lot of the spriters that did these no longer work on the mod (Chimeraman, Blaze McP, etc.)
Just a few suggestions for "Break Mode":
Different Item: This is iffy. It's just a bit of a pain to try and find Super Adaptor, especially on maps without it. But it doesn't bug me THAT much. (What's the Super Adaptor's ITEM ID?)
Toggle: I was thinking that maybe once you have the Break Man powerup, you could switch between the two? A matter of convenience, really.
Speed: Okay. This one is probably going to sound pretty bad. Maybe have Break Man be a bit slower when running, since he has that shield weighing down on his back. (Is he supposed to have his shield on when he jumps? If not, how do I fix this?)
These are just a few things I thought would be nice to see.
I totally agree with Carprillo. Not all maps have the Super Adaptor, and most of the maps which has can not be reached with Proto Man or Ballade. Basically you can't use even if the stage has one. It would be better if they can use any other item like the Power Adaptor, and such.I'll see what the rest of the devteam thinks about your suggestions to changing Breakman Caprillo however I'll definitely see about making Protoman and Ballade able to pick up other items like Power Adaptor to get their upgraded modes; it really just depends on how easy it would be to obtain the weapons in certain maps.
I'll see what the rest of the devteam thinks about your suggestions to changing Breakman Caprillo however I'll definitely see about making Protoman and Ballade able to pick up other items like Power Adaptor to get their upgraded modes; it really just depends on how easy it would be to obtain the weapons in certain maps.
Quote from: "Fyone"I'll see what the rest of the devteam thinks about your suggestions to changing Breakman Caprillo however I'll definitely see about making Protoman and Ballade able to pick up other items like Power Adaptor to get their upgraded modes; it really just depends on how easy it would be to obtain the weapons in certain maps.
Yeah, that would be bad and boring if everyone can pick up those items everytime. Even if they can't pick up anymore anything till they fragged by other players. Just boring seeing them go for that item immediately after respawn without a shot toward us. :?
Maybe if the use of that item would be forced somehow. Requires a specific amount of HP, or requires time to activate after pick up...
I thought the same... Exemple, if Ballade get like 20% Hp, he can use the Item but he wont be able to get hp from life recharge, for DM, it can work...but for TLMS...it can be a op thing?...
Maybe if it's like the item of grenademan (need to take a lot of damage+ life regen to have the item who is activated) (:
Maybe we could add something on Super Ballade, he looks just a general buff of speed, i dont know....but if we need to keep it canon for the most.... :)
I've been a lurker on these boards for a long time.
I think while MM8BDM is great, this mod gives it the charm it needs to be really fun and varied and I greatly admire the time and effort the coders are putting on it. I have a few nagging questions that I was hoping one of the devs would be kind enough to answer, some being straight up questions and others being mere suggestions.
Question 1: Will MM9 and 10 classes be added in the future? I surely hope so.
Question 2: Are there plans to improve class HUDs? I know the idea is to give them an 8bit feel and there is nothing wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were a little sharper looking, less pixelated. The sprites are fine, though.
Question 3: A lot of the times when I'm playing a script error pops along the messages. I think it was P_startscript 252. I'm using the latest version (the one at the start of the thread) along with the hotfix patch, all in the correct load order.
Question 4: I realize the campaign isn't the development focus right now (and maybe it is a problem with vanilla and not the mod?) but I have to point it out anyway.
a) None of the bots load during the MM&B section of the story if they are associated with King's team. I went into SLADE and changed them to Wily team and then they function normally (even with Cossack's).
b) None of the duels with the genesis unit work - taunts happen, energy bar fills, but the bot never spawns; the only way to proceed is use saveprogress # and skip it completely.
c) The ending doesn't happen. Killing the genesis unit and then shooting Wily in his power armor just makes him disappear and the game bascally leaves the player trapped.
I don't really play online so I can't comment on balance, but if I see anything that feels off, I'll at least throw it in here for consideration. Thank you.
Ah thank you for the warm welcome.
Yes, I recall that the core game will eventually add MM9 and 10 expansions and that
is the reason I was hoping JC will also add them, in turn.
I've been a lurker on these boards for a long time.Question 1: As Meme Man said, we do intend to add the MM9 and 10 classes once it is released in the core.
I think while MM8BDM is great, this mod gives it the charm it needs to be really fun and varied and I greatly admire the time and effort the coders are putting on it. I have a few nagging questions that I was hoping one of the devs would be kind enough to answer, some being straight up questions and others being mere suggestions.
Question 1: Will MM9 and 10 classes be added in the future? I surely hope so.
Question 2: Are there plans to improve class HUDs? I know the idea is to give them an 8bit feel and there is nothing wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were a little sharper looking, less pixelated. The sprites are fine, though.
Question 3: A lot of the times when I'm playing a script error pops along the messages. I think it was P_startscript 252. I'm using the latest version (the one at the start of the thread) along with the hotfix patch, all in the correct load order.
Question 4: I realize the campaign isn't the development focus right now (and maybe it is a problem with vanilla and not the mod?) but I have to point it out anyway.
a) None of the bots load during the MM&B section of the story if they are associated with King's team. I went into SLADE and changed them to Wily team and then they function normally (even with Cossack's).
b) None of the duels with the genesis unit work - taunts happen, energy bar fills, but the bot never spawns; the only way to proceed is use saveprogress # and skip it completely.
c) The ending doesn't happen. Killing the genesis unit and then shooting Wily in his power armor just makes him disappear and the game bascally leaves the player trapped.
I don't really play online so I can't comment on balance, but if I see anything that feels off, I'll at least throw it in here for consideration. Thank you.
Question 1: As Meme Man said, we do intend to add the MM9 and 10 classes once it is released in the core.
Ups, I misreaded the post. I saw "don't intend" instead of "do". XD
Out of curiosity, Promestein, how playable is R&F Mirai Kara no Chousenka if you have played it?It's playable. Not as bad as I thought it'd be - I like it more than 7, at the very least. It's got some big flaws, but it's still alright. If you're going to emulate it, I'd recommend using Oswan.
I'm rather reluctant to try, myself, but if it is considered canon, it would be fair to give it a go.
It's playable. Not as bad as I thought it'd be - I like it more than 7, at the very least. It's got some big flaws, but it's still alright. If you're going to emulate it, I'd recommend using Oswan.
Nice! thanks for the hard work, JC team.Yeah, no need to load the patch anymore.
Just to make sure I got this correctly, the patch after the main mod isn't needed in the load order anymore, is that it?
Works super! Wood Man and Dynamo Man isn't the unstoppable deathbringers of war. :DI'll check King's shield and fix it accordingly next version, sorry I forgot to fix the shield this version!
May I ask when King's shield will be fixed? As a normal shield it works great even now, but if you use the mainfire (Shield Raise) basically every single projectile damage you (but at least the blue laser will be always counterfire).
I'll check King's shield and fix it accordingly next version, sorry I forgot to fix the shield this version!
Personally, and keep in mind that I have no idea how this would work, it should actually slow stuff down.
I was thinking tweaking the code of the core Flash Stopper weapon.
Thoughts?
Actually Time Man and Flash Man is not the same in their original game:
Time Man slow down the time and you must fight against him like that.
Flash Man completely stop the time, and shot at your direction.
I guess I expressed myself poorly. I meant to say Flash Man and Time Man have similar frameworks on a lore level: in Mega Man 2 Wily created robots that are arguably enhanced designs over Light's originals.
I think Flash Man is pretty broken as is, at least when playing against him as a bot, but that's likely because he can spam FS a lot as a bot
I see that Burnerman's wave burner still don't push the mines in MMBPIR ( And i thought it was fixed. ) also when i use it above the water the mines will just disappear.Sorry I either forgot or never was aware of this bug, I'll fix it for next version; thanks for reporting!
The problem with bot Flash Man is the infinite ammo. The Flash Stopper use up every single bit of ammo and can't regenerate till the effect still active. This mean you can not shot during Flash Stopper. But the bot has no ammo at all. If it stop the time, Flash Man still able to shot because the unlimited ammo. This is really overpower as an AI.Well I can just alter/fix how the bot works, are you saying that the bot uses Time Stopper too much or are you saying that he's using mainfire while the Time Stopper is active? I'm kind of confused by the way you worded it.
Maybe if we limit the shot itself. For example Flash Man can shot only once during the Flash Stopper, or shot out less in his burst during that time. Oh and of course it must be accurate to the NES boss: so if a stopped enemy receive a hit, the stopper effect will immediately disabled.
But this is just my opinion. For some reason I like to see some Flash Stopper + Shot combo in a balanced way.
Well I can just alter/fix how the bot works, are you saying that the bot uses Time Stopper too much or are you saying that he's using mainfire while the Time Stopper is active? I'm kind of confused by the way you worded it.
In the past, you used to be able to either weapnext or weapprev to get to the buster.
I think if you double bind the weapon switching, you should be able to get the effect you want? don't quote me on it though.
So one can only reprogram bots in how they use weapons and not the actual refire rates/energy requirements?
Quote from: "RageBurner"So one can only reprogram bots in how they use weapons and not the actual refire rates/energy requirements?
Yes. The bots have no ammo, energy, or whatever it is called. They still have the base refire rate corresponding to the weapon they use, but they can shoot continuously. I think in Doom the bots can't manage ammo. So they must have infinite ammo for smooth gameplay.
Hm. If that's the case, then it would be nice if some bots fired a little more slowly, like Ice Man for example.
I thought fire rates were tied to bot difficulty, but is that really the case?
Huh I don't know this. Somehow I not really get rapid-fire bots if I add random ones. Sometimes I get Ice Man and Metal Man against me. As far as I see, they fire at full refire speed without stop till I die. But the strategic retreat always help, the bots not really can catch if you turn much. :D
Bots with fast firing weapons are the most dangerous, no doubt (Ice Man, Metal Man, Needle Man and so on) and I agree, Endymion, proper movement, use of cover and even jumping helps a lot.
But since there are balance changes, I not really know how much can be abused Wood Man.
Speaking of balance, it just occurred me that Frostman might need a little nerf. At least in his bot form he's pretty cheap with his ice punch dash (maybe because of auto aim, but I thought I'd note it here).
-Fixed Burnerman's mainfire not being able to push Pirate mines
Due to shenanigans hotfix released, add the file after JustifiedClasses-v3c.pk3!
Changelog:
-Fixed BusterRodG's infinite illusions
-Fixed MegaWaterS's altfire ability to push allies
-Fixed Burnerman's mainfire not being able to push Pirate mines
-Fixed Shields
-Fixed Protoman's OilSlider
-Buffed Springman's altfire speed again and buffed the damage slightly
-Nerfed Burstman's DangerWraps that fall off him when being hit by a strong attack
Y'all were talking about bots earlier, and for those who don't know I should remind you that the bots are programmed to imitate their behaviors from the boss fight in their original game. So when you fight the Flash Man bot, he's imitating the AI pattern of Flash Man in Mega Man 2.
My apologies, I completely missed this in your last post; it most likely happens since Burnerman's mainfire reflects projectiles so it shouldn't be too hard to fix.Quote from: "Fyone"-Fixed Burnerman's mainfire not being able to push Pirate mines
They still disappear when using it not on water.
It was really only nerfed since it would OHKO at point blank.Quote from: "Fyone"-Nerfed Burstman's DangerWraps that fall off him when being hit by a strong attack
This one I don't really get. From what I understand only chargeable weapons can cause this, and it's not like Burstman doesn't pay for the bomb drops by taking damage anyway. I think it's an integral part of his mechanics, and there are other RMs that drop bombs that are much stronger without paying HP for them (like Mars and Grenade Man) ... just my two cents.
Also, something about Freeze Man. When shooting freeze cracker repeatedly, the energy halo that forms around his hand obstructs the player view, making it difficult to land subsequent shots correctly. Can I suggest making the halo a little smaller?Alright I can do this for uncharged shots, thanks for the suggestion!
addendum: The halo seems to take the player's Y coordinate into account. The higher you look, the less it will obstruct your view. Low shots are important for Freeze Man though, because of Freeze Cracker's nature.
It was really only nerfed since it would OHKO at point blank.
Alright I can do this for uncharged shots, thanks for the suggestion!
I too have a question about Turbo Man, specifically his mainfire, Scorch Wheel.
I have a hard time hitting with that, but it seems that when I move, the wheel sort of turns around its own
axis, and it becomes to easier to hit, then. Is it just the way Zandronum handles perspective or does the wheel really turn as Turbo Man moves?
It is just the perspective. The view limited to only 8 point. This mean, you will see the Scorch Wheel from its side even you are not at the side of the projectile. Try to shot straight upward: some projectile will have not visible sprite from that angle. XD
Hi all. Huge apologies for the bump. I would like to report a bug.Yes, thanks for reporting this I will fix it for the next version!
When playing with bots, the bot fixer thing doesn't seem to work when both this mod and the hotfix are loaded; they get stuck around cliff edges like in pre v3a of MM8BDM. I tested this in Guts Man's map; in vanilla, a bot stuck in the cliff area reacted to my presence when I got near and would start attacking me. But in this, he was just stuck there, he wouldn't react until I shoot him first. Can you pretty please look into this?
Some homing wep obits need fixing as well, I noticed. And why am I unable to use the Time Stopper copywep at all?Yeah we noticed we missed some of the homing weapon obituaries but I think fixed them all now :p . I must have missed that TimeStopper bug but I'll make sure it works for next version. Thanks for reporting these bugs!
Custom classes built around the framework of Justified classes work perfectly fine to play as, even with their custom weapons.
but when I add them as a bot they will not fire, regardless of what starting weapon I have tried giving to them, whether its their own, or a stock justified classes weapon.
Wait's over
http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=justifiedclasses-v3d.pk3
Changelog:(click to show/hide)
Credit to Z-dagger for dustman and drillman jump sprites.
Any thoughts on nerfing bombman's instakill bomb that's blast reaches half of every stage yetWe will most likely be nerfing the damage where it does a max of 100 instead 120. Thanks for the suggestion!
I tried to play with the bot cutman, but one shot, why HUD cutman missing.It's because Cutman (and all bots) use custom bot weapons for their bots so we didn't really pay attention to making sure their HUD was properly showing or anything.
Why
(http://orig02.deviantart.net/3bfc/f/2016/148/2/0/screenshot_doom_20160528_101741_by_zdagger67-da45mtz.png)
This may be a zandronum question rather than a mod question, but is it possible to force a respawn timer on bots? reason being they consistently steal kills and such, thanks to having no ammo limit.I don't think it is possible to force a respawn timer on bots, sorry.
It is me, or the bots seems like stronger in this version? XDI don't think we touched any of the bots so they should be the same strength as before. Thanks for your suggestion for Duo I feel this would improve his gameplay a lot we will add it in next version.
Actually after some tests (especial with the characters stated in the changelog) it looks like fine for me. Works, balanced, and the slower healt recharge makes it even more boss-like. Still the only thing I could mention is Duo. It is somewhat frustrating you must rapidly press the mouse button to shot. It would be more fun is one mouse button charge, the other shot rapidly and the item is the rolling.
As a "sometimes" Gemini Man player I love when my opponent doesn't know which is the original. But I accept the fact it can be frustrating for other players.
Oh speaking of Duo, I had an important question.I don't think we have any intention to move any HUDs to the left hand; it IMO would make it harder to aim his shots since the norm for HUDs is always right handed.
When is his fist getting moved over to his left hand?
As a "sometimes" Gemini Man player I love when my opponent doesn't know which is the original. But I accept the fact it can be frustrating for other players.
I know what you mean, Endymion, I guess I wasn't clear enough ^.^'
What I'm trying to say is the clone should be more transparent only to the player using Gemini Man so that shooting becomes easier, not to the enemies, since mind games are a big part of his gameplay.
I don't think we touched any of the bots so they should be the same strength as before. Thanks for your suggestion for Duo I feel this would improve his gameplay a lot we will add it in next version.
Quote from: "Endymion"As a "sometimes" Gemini Man player I love when my opponent doesn't know which is the original. But I accept the fact it can be frustrating for other players.
I know what you mean, Endymion, I guess I wasn't clear enough ^.^'
What I'm trying to say is the clone should be more transparent only to the player using Gemini Man so that shooting becomes easier, not to the enemies, since mind games are a big part of his gameplay.
Sorry I actually missed your message on this RageBurner, but I don't think it is possible to make it only transparent to the one using Geminman (at least as far as I know). Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless!
We plan to improve the charged Freeze Cracker entirely where shooting the ceiling will be more rewarding since right now it's pretty underwhelming.
I can see what you mean though, so we may lower the charge time slightly as well. Thanks for the suggestion!
One thing I noticed in this version that seems a little odd is that the Cut Man bot is strangely passive; he doesn't attack me at all for some reason, in the maps he spawns in. Happens in both SP and MP with bots added.
There might be an issue with his AI that is worth looking into.
Edit: speaking of issues, I noticed the ACS error ("I don't know what tempinvince is") doesn't happen when the Boss Rush map is loaded from a MP server. I don't know the worth of that piece of info but still.
try to use thisThat fixed it, thank you!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ni4edid8rqj247e/CutmanBotfix.wad
maybe I should find this issue
I'm going off on a tangent here, but I'm making a set of gauges for use with JC. I wonder if those involved in the project know SBARINFO code and could give me a few tips? if I'm allowed, I'll show how my work is looking, here.It's hard to give generic tips but most of it should be self-explanatory if you just edit it off the Justified Classes SBARINFO. It's fine if you show your work here I think, or you could show it to me by PM if you just want my help.
It's hard for me to point out the issue without seeing the code you have to display the assists for the copywep classes. Can you post the code here or PM me what you have?
That way I can point out where you went wrong and help you from there.
I can't seem to get the file through best-ever.
Can someone upload a download link from some other place? Like mediafire or mega.co?
Quote from: "GunstarSign"I can't seem to get the file through best-ever.
Can someone upload a download link from some other place? Like mediafire or mega.co?
Here you go, let me know if it helps.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/manvt5ff24rkg ... H.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/manvt5ff24rkge6/Justified%20Classes%20Mod%20Main%20v3DH.zip?dl=0)
It doesn't seem like Mega Man's Time Stopper (so timestopperwepm) works. It won't fire.
It doesn't seem like Mega Man's Time Stopper (so timestopperwepm) works. It won't fire.Not to worry, this has already been fixed next version. Thanks for reporting the bug!
Great to see another version of the mod, and with so many changes too!In Mega Man 5, Napalm Man would often leap across the entire distance of the arena. That's where this attack comes from. The explosive property is to both give it a use as an attack, and comes from the fact he had rocket boosters in Power Fighters.
I agree with most of them wholeheartly, but allow me to comment on those I do not (and of course I'll explain why):
Napalm Man:(click to show/hide)
In Mega Man 5, Napalm Man would often leap across the entire distance of the arena. That's where this attack comes from. The explosive property is to both give it a use as an attack, and comes from the fact he had rocket boosters in Power Fighters.
Bass have a bug.when i use pluto or jupiter fought with bass of the other player.i was shot by bass buster and died at that time the game window close quickly and the server shut down.sometimes when i nearly die and bass shot me and hit me can also make that bug appeared.i do not know that whether other character was killed by bass can make the bug appear again...Hope it can be fixed……
Er......i try it again.in a word ,i found that if someone use bass,megaman or protoman and kill one of the bosses from megaman world 5 ?boss can be a bot or be controlled by player) the game or the game with server and the server will close itself……but if one of bass,megaman,and protoman is bot and kill the bosses from megaman world 5 (boss can be a bot or controlled by someone). that error will not appear.the game can work normally.Quote from: "Zeroprime"Bass have a bug.when i use pluto or jupiter fought with bass of the other player.i was shot by bass buster and died at that time the game window close quickly and the server shut down.sometimes when i nearly die and bass shot me and hit me can also make that bug appeared.i do not know that whether other character was killed by bass can make the bug appear again...Hope it can be fixed……
Hm... I tried, but I couldn't reproduce this, even with a server filled with Bass bots, or a player controlling Bass killing me (on LAN at least).
In terms of a lot of classes slowing down when using their attacks we decided to take this approach rather than just lowering the base movement...
We compensate by nerfing a lot of the attacks in various ways. For example, either lowering ammo regeneration rate as a whole for some classes that have this or nerfing the attacks themselves mostly the former though. So I can see us doing this for the next version.
Bug: performing Astro Crush once allows Astro Man to perform Astro Crush at any ammo level.
Bug: was able to move a MM1FIR pillar somehow. Still trying to determine cause...
Suggestion: Prevent "ammo lock"- holding main or altfire to do nothing and stop ammo gain.
(Example: Holding alt with FireMan in CBM will have him still gain ammo and do his overdrive asap. Holding alt with FireMan in Justi will stop his ammo gain, you would never want this.)
CBM has had this for a while. All ammo-locks do is enforce execution skill in an online fps prone to lag and desync.
Some class property lists I made (don't get too caught up in semantics and if everything is right):(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
@Sonicfam1102You're welcome! It is my honor to do that.Thanks for your hard work! I really like it!
In response to a lot of classes stopping when using their attacks, we have seen some players complain about this issue and thus we have tried to cut down on some of these classes that stop when using their attacks in v3e. I assume you did not update your list to the most recent version but some examples of these include Crystalman, Starman, and Swordman where they no longer stop when using their class-specific aerial attacks. And for example you listed Springman under slows however he is no longer slowed when firing his Spring Punch but is instead stopped due to the recent improvements to the move as a whole.
It is hard for me personally to pinpoint which classes you would like to see stopping removed on so it would really help if you could post what classes you would like to see the stop removed on rather than all classes that stop when attacking since this really only helps very little on actually fixing the problem. From what you named I like the idea of Burnerman no longer stopping when setting up his traps or Slashman and will definitely make this change for next version. I also could see us lowering how long Gutsman stops to ready his Super Arm.
In terms of a lot of classes slowing down when using their attacks we decided to take this approach rather than just lowering the base movement speed to a specific amount akin to YD. We felt this would help the classes as a whole in combat because instead of being easily kited by faster classes they can somewhat hold up rather than giving them a whole bunch of armour to compensate. However one thing we could do is maybe make the classes who have slows not slow as much if this really comes down to be a big issue. We could for example make Gutsman only slow down to the base movement speed value of YD Gutsman and maybe we could do this for all the classes with slows that work similar to Gutsman.
As for the 'ammo-lock' thing you mentioned, we felt that this wasn't very detrimental to gameplay at least in our point of view and therefore balanced a lot classes with it in the past. We have it so that some classes get their normal ammo regeneration rate when they attack, some at a decreased rate, and some with no gain at all. If you find that this really ruins the flow we could have it so that all attacks regain their ammo at a normal rate while holding fire however we compensate by nerfing a lot of the attacks in various ways. For example, either lowering ammo regeneration rate as a whole for some classes that have this or nerfing the attacks themselves mostly the former though. So I can see us doing this for the next version.
As for class diversity, I'm gonna assume based on your previous lists that you haven't played v3e to its entirety. Because right now every class is very diverse in how their moves are used and the type of different moves each class has. This is again where a generalization helps very little if at all. From the examples you gave me Drillman and Groundman's only similarity is that they both dig at least from what I can perceive. Shademan and Jupiter only share their swoop (which like you said work differently to begin with) and flight. Gutsman and Uranus only both share moves with start ups. I see that you like to compare YD and Justified Classes with a lot of these but if you look at YD they have many classes which have similar mechanics that are shared between classes like Drillman and Groundman as you said, Megaman and Protoman, Gyroman and Windman, and many more.
If you want classes made more unique or improved please post in this thread with the ideas and suggestions that you want to see happen so we can put them into fruition instead of just posting some generalized opinion because we can't make changes if we don't know what you want. Post the resolution that you want to see happen instead of just posting the problem!
In terms of canon we try to include all or close to all the moves that the class had in their original game and then build upon it to make the class fun and entertaining by a gameplay standpoint. If you had brought up for example Burnerman as a suggestion in the past I would have seen your complaint and fixed it accordingly but if you don't post we can only do what we see fit.
I really appreciate these suggestions guys and I hope more suggestions can be given so we can make this mod even better!
EDIT: @Zeroprime I'll look into that bug and try my best to fix it, thanks!
I'm a bit confused about Mercury's new mechanics. Sometimes I snap to another location, and I can't pin down exactly what it's all about.
Also, can we maybe get some sort of info on what kinds of robot masters give Sniper Joe which weapons?
Also, can we maybe get some sort of info on what kinds of robot masters give Sniper Joe which weapons?Here is a rough list:
I'll fix those bugs you mentioned for Snakeman, Uranus, and Protoman for next version. Thanks for reporting them.
We will most likely just increase Crashman's jump height for next version, however I can't see us buffing his armour because that would be too big of a buff even if he is supposed to have higher armour.
Water Cannon may feel strong against bots, but in online play it's very easy to avoid so it needs to do good damage to catch people off guard/zone.
Turboman gains a speed boost when he has his Scorch Wheel up so we can't have him be able to hold it indefinitely.
For Centaurman's galloping I'm not 100% sure if you can mute it for the player using the class only but I personally feel the galloping noise isn't that annoying especially considering when you use your item use you won't hear it all. However if more people find that it's bothersome we can see about doing something to it.
I forgot about Gyroman; when flying your Gyro Attacks don't consume any ammo so I don't feel like ammo should be an issue for him.
Maybe MM10 will be here faster than expected. A larger update instead of a lot small is always more worthful to wait for.
But I don't know what will happen to the MM10 last boss in MM8BDM, since Gamma already claimed that awesome music.Whatever the MM10 will be ready I wait for the Justified Classes to catch up and wish Hyper Storm H still has both of his healt bar. I can't get enough of it.Slow guys are not my style (I main Burner Man and sub Pluto), but I can see the appeal of having a lot of health and beng tanky, I guess.
I like the hard hitting heavy characters. Actually King is my top favorite since it can switch between skill and power.King is loads of fun to play as; I love how versatile he can be in the right hands.
I just got into this game a while ago and I really like this mod and prefer it a bit over the Yellow Devil mod. However I have a few issues with it mainly concerning the accessibility of the classes. For some reason when setting up bots in the quickgame setup I can not choose any robot master from MM7. Also, for some reason Dr. Wily is listed twice and both times it simply spawns Quint. Another question is when is the mod going to be compatible with v5?
To answer your other question, we're almost finished with the new update (adding MM9 classes and v5 compatability). We're scheduled to test it this week, and as soon as it's done the testing phase it should be ready for you guys!
Bit of a heads up: The initial release will not include Fake Man, but he will be added later.
While I'm not at liberty to reveal too much about Galaxy Man, I can say he's very fun, he'll be deadly in the hands of people who can mix up his main and alt, and he has a feature people are gonna have a lot of fun just screwing around with...
Wiki's not updated
How does swordman's Item work?
I played this mod,but a very serious problem appeared:fall damage.thats not JC's fault. TSPG reset and all servers have fall damage autoset to on
For example,if Tengu Man use the tengu smash at upper air,he die.So why not set this fall damage?it sucks.
[03:34:08 pm] Network traffic (in bytes) caused by actor code pointers:
[03:34:08 pm] AirWall 28006
[03:34:08 pm] AirWall2 1705
[03:34:08 pm] Airman 7400
[03:34:08 pm] BigHealthC 8
[03:34:09 pm] BigHealthGiver 108
[03:34:09 pm] BlackManHoleBombExplosion 12976
[03:34:09 pm] BubblePop 2260
[03:34:09 pm] BusterRodG 90830
[03:34:09 pm] BusterRodGIllusion 24181
[03:34:09 pm] BusterRodGIllusion3 8172
[03:34:09 pm] CentaurFlashC 9429
[03:34:09 pm] Centaurman 66
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteBlockC 1072
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteShot1 135
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteShot2 135
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteShot3 648
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteTackle 34303
[03:34:09 pm] ConcreteTackle2 4316
[03:34:09 pm] Concreteman 4144
[03:34:09 pm] DarkShieldShot 44259
[03:34:09 pm] DarkShieldShotReturn 37757
[03:34:09 pm] Darkman2 2779
[03:34:09 pm] Duo 1488
[03:34:09 pm] Dynamoman 4002
[03:34:09 pm] FakeDeathFX 94724
[03:34:09 pm] FallingPillar 249659
[03:34:09 pm] GRod1 35829318
[03:34:09 pm] GalaxyBlackHoleBomb 1191
[03:34:09 pm] GalaxyTPBegin 48552
[03:34:09 pm] GalaxyTPDest 715
[03:34:09 pm] Galaxyman 1144
[03:34:09 pm] HiveGrenade 11963
[03:34:09 pm] HiveGrenade2 2720
[03:34:09 pm] HornetJetSpawner 25704
[03:34:09 pm] HornetManChaser 552
[03:34:09 pm] HornetManChaser2 739906
[03:34:09 pm] Hornetman 1431
[03:34:09 pm] HyperStormH 673
[03:34:10 pm] HyperStormHVacuumFX4 6824
[03:34:10 pm] ItemFog2 8484
[03:34:10 pm] KnightCrusher 593110
[03:34:10 pm] KnightReturner 61193
[03:34:10 pm] KnightStop -1443448073
[03:34:10 pm] Knightman 20735
[03:34:10 pm] LaserTridentMan 112
[03:34:10 pm] LaserTridentMan2 112
[03:34:10 pm] LightningBoltMan 67490
[03:34:10 pm] LightningBoltSummonerMan 7344
[03:34:10 pm] LightningOrb 2968
[03:34:10 pm] LightningRod 13051
[03:34:10 pm] MagmaManBazookaB2 448
[03:34:10 pm] MagmaSpawner 24739
[03:34:10 pm] Magmaman 154
[03:34:10 pm] MegaWaterS 957
[03:34:10 pm] PlugManBall2 192
[03:34:10 pm] PlugManBall22 48914
[03:34:10 pm] PlugManBallStart 144
[03:34:10 pm] PlugManBallStart1 32165
[03:34:10 pm] Plugman 7412
[03:34:10 pm] ReSolidifier 11138
[03:34:10 pm] SWaterCannon2 119
[03:34:10 pm] SkullBit 89505
[03:34:10 pm] Skullman 1161
[03:34:10 pm] SmallHealthC 88
[03:34:10 pm] SmallHealthGiver 1182
[03:34:10 pm] SplashBubbleGiver 58870
[03:34:10 pm] Splashwoman 1161
[03:34:11 pm] TeleportFog2 124811
[03:34:11 pm] TempPitProtector 1568
[03:34:11 pm] TornadoBlowMan 41456
[03:34:11 pm] TornadoBlowSummonerMan 5440
[03:34:11 pm] TornadoDamagerMan 466
[03:34:11 pm] TornadoDamagerMan2 30166
[03:34:11 pm] TornadoManBlowShot 1116
[03:34:11 pm] Tornadoman 5229
[03:34:11 pm] UraPillarRock 9688418
[03:34:11 pm] Uranus 5412
[03:34:11 pm] WallStunConcrete 13778
[03:34:11 pm]
Network traffic (in bytes) caused by ACS scripts:
[03:34:11 pm] Script 150: 500
[03:34:11 pm] Script 512: 6864479
[03:34:11 pm] Script 516: 1288
[03:34:11 pm] Script 527: 14715
[03:34:11 pm] Script 533: 23080
[03:34:11 pm] Script 544: 59729
[03:34:11 pm] Script 563: 234
[03:34:11 pm] Script 564: 27957
[03:34:11 pm] Script 570: 2640
[03:34:11 pm] Script 581: 383
[03:34:11 pm] Script 587: 7129
[03:34:11 pm] Script 977: 17971480
[03:34:11 pm] Script 987: 2142
[03:34:11 pm] Script 997: 259634
[03:34:11 pm] Script 998: 27663That may be right. However we never had any lag even with extreme abuse of bots (namely 10 or more at the same time). I guess it depends on the distance the players has with each other, and also the server's distance compared to the players' location.Bots? Which bots? Bots don't do the things that are causing the problems anyway. Were you even online? Cause they were testing with BRG, Knight, and Dark Man and the entire server was lagging so bad no one could even connect anymore.
Anyway I would have a request. Could you consider addig the Mega Ball to Mega Man as starting weapon? Selectable as the copy weapons, and with finite ammunition. I ask this because there is no way Mega Man can obtain Mega Ball during normal matches.
Bots? Which bots? Bots don't do the things that are causing the problems anyway. Were you even online? Cause they were testing with BRG, Knight, and Dark Man and the entire server was lagging so bad no one could even connect anymore.
As I said Mr. Lazy-To-Read, we played online with extreme abuse of anything spawnable, including bots. We had no problem but I accepted the mod can cause lags.bots... dont cause anything like that, though. i'm not sure why you're relating bots to the ever-present brokenness of this mod
Should I repeat the posts mean to be read?Yes please do so. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing, or maybe I've missed somethings. After all, while I'm reminding you the reasons JC v4a got banned, maybe you were talking about something else. Maybe I misunderstood the "we played online with extreme abuse of anything spawnable" part, or maybe you should explain what you've exactly done, and explicitate for what reason.
As I said Mr. Lazy-To-Read
Could you talk about anything else than "this guy mentioned the word "bot" for one time? :)I don't know if this was really how it was, but you really sound ... arrogant.
Actually work the same if you have a mod that make every projectile bounce indefinitely (or at least till it hits a player but ripping projectiles won't disappear after than though).
actor MegaBallKicked
{
PROJECTILE
+HEXENBOUNCE
-NOGRAVITY
+FORCEXYBILLBOARD
+BOUNCEONACTORS
scale 2.5
height 16
radius 16
damage(30)
bouncecount 10
bouncefactor 0.9
wallbouncefactor 0.9
Gravity 0.50
speed 40
seesound "weapon/megaball"
damagetype "MegaBall"
Obituary "$OB_MEGABALL"I noticed it too, and also occurs with King, but only in the singleplayer house. During deathmatch there is no problem with the pallettes.I still demand a fix since this is a huge bug. As for Rock's skin pallete it still has the mistake on Deathmatch.
Hey guys....i'm new here...so......this mod is still functional??because this mod works with the V5a version,but in the V5b,zandronum can't run the game......so this mod will be updated?
It is being updated very soon, Fake Man just needs finishing touches. In the meantime you can try CBM.thanks....i'm waiting for this update.....this mod is one of the best i ever seen.......i liked the stardroids and some other cool stuff
Ok got v5 and I can't seem to get this mod to work also is yhere any other mods like the special classes mod? I like the fact that I can still use skins with those classes plus it's good that you can still use powers.Please read the earlier posts, it is not updated to v5b yet. However the update will be finished soon once Fyone is done fiddling around with Fake Man.
So I tried to download the mod,but when I clicked the link it just brought me to a 404 page. Help?
Try to uses this :
static.allfearthesentinel.net/wads/justifiedclasses-v4a-zandro3-170416-07102.pk3 (http://static.allfearthesentinel.net/wads/justifiedclasses-v4a-zandro3-170416-07102.pk3)