Hey everyone! Good job to all the entrants, and congratulations to Blaze, Rozark and especially LlamaHombre! It's good to see those who have contributed to the core of 8BDM (or will go on to contribute) stop to give the community some more of their time to show off their skill. Each map had its criticisms, but I trust users will be able to learn from the feedback provided and keep improving. After all, this competition wasn't for maps to go into the core or anything, and some entrants (along with some would-be entrants) already had the only thing the competition was able to physically reward, medals, so hopefully the feedback and experience was worth it.
So, I was the third judge. I contributed a good portion of the feedback in Max's post, but I wanted to add something about a certain trend I observed in the INSPIRE entries.
Ex-expansion leader Ivory often commented that there was a 'map-size creep' in 8BDM core mapping. To an extent this was often said jokingly, though it did have some merit. As official content for 8BDM continues to be made, there is an increasing but inevitable demand for size and complexity. While certainly considered a good map, no one would accept such a small and simple layout design like MM3SPA if it was introduced to 8BDM as an expansion map now. It would be wasted potential!
Why make a basic layout for [upcoming MM9 robot master/fortress map] when you can give it so much more depth? After all, [upcoming MM9 robot master's/fortress' original stage] was so cool! Surely it must be done proper justice? Hell, even MM3SPA had 3D floors introduced to it as of 8BDMv3a. I do not criticise this attitude, but highlight it to show I understand it is an inevitability. We come to a time in this game's lifespan where there are 90+ maps, and each one must be more unique than the last to justify its addition to the game. Even a map I'm currently preparing for the core is pretty complex.
Now, let me appropriate this to the custom mapping scene. While of course custom maps are not in an accumulative pool where each map must be more unique than the last in the same sense core maps are, seeing as the core maps set the standard for all 8BDM custom maps to follow (love or hate them, no mapper here would be making 8-bit textured blocky levels if the core maps didn't exist), it makes sense to argue that the expansive size-and-complexity mapping attitudes I highlighted previously are going to be mirrored in custom maps also. These attitudes as such have reached their logical extreme in...
(sorry Duora for singling your map out, I'll get to others soon enough)
So what gives mappers the ability to make maps so goddamn tall? Functional steps. Slopes. Jump pads. Movement across elevations becomes so much smoother and easier that we forget how much elevation-to-elevation player interactions are alienated. With mapping, Ivory had a golden rule with stairs requiring jumps, which was referred to a few times in the judge feedback: 3 jumps max; after that number climbing becomes awkward, excessive and unwieldy. 3 jumps allows for a maximum of 192 units, possibly 224, to be climbed, and that was as much height variation as was acceptable at the advent of 8BDM mapping. Originally, no core map had any variation smaller than 32 units. This is exemplary in the original Cutstuff Doom Builder 2 mapping tutorial published in 2010:
Floors and ceilings are are 32x32 - You may notice that every map in MM8BDM is fixed to a 32x32 grid in a way. Every floor matches the Mega Man tiles. You should try your best to level out your maps so that they follow a 32 pixel height format. To understand what I'm talking about, when you raise a ceiling or floor you get the red ! textures. Use these !'s as a guideline to know how low/high a ceiling/floor is to match the tiles, as they happen to be 32x32 map pixels.
Functional stairs and slopes were introduced to the game with the release of 8BDMv2a where they were featured in maps like MM7DW3, and various staircases in pre-existing maps were changed to either of these two. These additions were acceptable because some 32-height stairs in core maps, even if they followed the 3 jumps rule, just plain
sucked to climb as they often had to be climbed frequently and high player congestion made it even worse. The important thing about this though is that even if they were functional stairs, they still conformed to the 3 jumps rule of their 32-height stair predecessors, meaning height variation remained at a comfortable range of 192-224 units. The main issue arises when maps are begun using functional steps from the get-go.
This is all to make my main point:
mappers are now too comfortable with functional steps.With the 3 jump rule much less relevant now, due to most movement across elevations being done without a single jump required, the maximum height variation between significant elevations of 192-224 units is mostly no longer a factor in mapping. What mappers forget though is that this maximum is still important to adhere to! If players are going to interact with each other across elevations, the ideal is to not make the variance too high. Arguably, the ideal is 96-128 units but with the advent of 3D floors and tunnels that's not always possible to do comfortably, at risk of making 3D ceilings too low. Nevertheless, my inspiration for height variation comes from maps like MM3DW1 and MM8DUO where most variation does come under this range. When I made MMBKIN, those were the two maps whose height variations I tried to emulate, and not to be too much of an egotistical douche but opinions of that map seem to be generally favourable so I'd argue it's a worthwhile sentiment. Height advantage is vital, but making height variation too high can actually diminish this advantage. Height variation is wasted if the person above has to aim down too much, or walk too close to the edge to actually see their opponent. But nevertheless, because the three jump rule is now mostly irrelevant, this ideal range of height variation has become more ignored and unaware mappers have fallen into the trap of using functional steps and its ilk too much, seeing them as limitless resources.
The obvious example of this in INSPIRE is, as I hinted at previously, INSPIR02. Using functional steps and slopes at various places to do the dirty work, along with a good heaping of jumps, this map is incredibly tall. This is of course redundant since this is addressed in the judge's feedback and everyone and their mother has complained about it previously, but for the sake of example I really want to stress the point. For how big the map is, players are hardly ever able to fight each other at reasonable distances.
Other maps with excessive height variation:
INSPIR04 - Breathing room is obviously required underneath 3D floors, though in areas like the blue room there is some space to raise the floors slightly. The bigger issue is that the blue and green rooms lack sufficient open horizontal space to complement this rise of 160+ units. Elevation-to-elevation player interactions are thus inhibited as players on the upper floor must aim too far down and stand too close to the edge to shoot at their opponents, wasting height advantage. There is much more open horizontal space in the red room which as KD said makes interactions more comfortable.
INSPIR05 - Addressed in judge's feedback.
INSPIR06 - Main issue here is that the second floor is so high up that there is zero interaction between the two floors.
Even INSPIR03 probably has room to make several of its staircases 32 units shorter and lower any corresponding 3D floors by the same amount.
Of INSPIRE, INSPIR06 is unfortunately the epitome of everything I've discussed regarding expansive mapping attitudes. This map has 3D floors placed extremely high up. This map has extremely tall functional stairs. This map has
extremely tall 3D floor functional stairs. I can hardly blame Watzup because this is his first map, and it's otherwise a very commendable first attempt, but this point needs to be made for everyone else: these are the attitudes new mappers are born into. I fear that amid all the maps getting unreasonably bigger and more complex, new mappers will see excess (though they won't consider it excess!) as the norm and emulate it.
Another point I want to address is excessive use of 16-height steps as decoration. As standards for detail in maps increase, mappers have grown to become fond of differentiating their differently-textured floors by putting them on slightly different elevations. Used in moderation this is fine, and it's a practice I myself often do, but it's important to recognise the possible drawbacks of this when used inappropriately. Using 16-height steps with 32-height steps nearby can cause obstructions in player movement (INSPIR01 - addressed in judge's feedback, INSPIR04 - 16-height step before 32-height step leading to Yamato Spear in red room tripped me up a few times). Generally excessive use can ruin the usefulness of floorhugging weapons like Bubble Lead (INSPIR04), Ice Wall (INSPIR05) or Water Wave (INSPIR07), and, to an extent, just makes the map look untidy (I have criticised pre-v3b MMBBUR's random little steps in the past for this reason). Arguably INSPIR07 is an exception to this point of untidiness since the random steps blend in better with the map's more detailed GBA textures, but for the rest a reminder: you are dealing with 8-bit textures sorted in-game mostly as 32x32 tiles. Small steps I find are aesthetically acceptable when grouped together as staircases but otherwise random steps up and down mostly just seem out of place.
Thank you to anyone who read all of this. I felt it was important to properly articulate what I saw as a growing issue in the 8BDM mapping scene. A size/complexity creep is inevitable in a sense, but don't go too wild with it.
[25/05/2015 5:27:42 PM] King Dumb: MM3SPA is like
[25/05/2015 5:27:52 PM] King Dumb: my favorite elevation-based duel map
[25/05/2015 5:27:56 PM] King Dumb: so intense the whole time
[25/05/2015 5:28:03 PM] King Dumb: and 80% of it comes from the elevations
[25/05/2015 5:34:52 PM] Shade Guy: dat pit man
[25/05/2015 5:34:59 PM] King Dumb: it's like
[25/05/2015 5:35:09 PM] King Dumb: the map where Rush is most important
[25/05/2015 5:35:13 PM] King Dumb: out of any map
[25/05/2015 5:35:39 PM] Shade Guy: the pressure of trying to climb back out would be non-existent if the pit was deeper and the ladder was replaced by a jump pad
[25/05/2015 5:35:48 PM] King Dumb: exactly
[25/05/2015 5:36:01 PM] King Dumb: and I could see some people advocating for such a replacement
[25/05/2015 5:36:36 PM] Shade Guy: It's what I fear might be attempted if someone tried to make a map like it nowadays at least
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