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Topic Summary

Posted by: Ivory
« on: October 01, 2014, 11:34:31 PM »

What I don't understand about all of this is that MM8BDM Eddie doesn't even drop the items he drops in Mega Man games. he drops weapons in MM8BDM, and real Eddie never did such a thing. It's hard to take a complaint/opinion/etc about this seriously when the mm8bdm functionality of him isn't even canon to begin with.

Game mechanics from a single player platformer does not carry over to an online arena shooter 1:1.
Posted by: MusashiAA
« on: October 01, 2014, 07:11:25 PM »

Quote from: "BiscuitSlash"
Quote from: "BiscuitSlash"
What I'm saying is, the games faithfulness outweighs the improvement of gameplay
I don't remember ever being frustrated at Eddie giving me something I already have in 8BDM. This "improvement" seems far to minor to warrant dropping the accuracy to the original games.

Eddie's still random in what he gives you, which is accurate (so your point is moot). He just won't give you something you already have, and thus don't need.

NES Eddie was a thing in a single player 2D platformer, it was manipulable and abusable, and the types of drops were limited to the most useful, instead of just all kinds of drops. The odds were in your favour the whole time, and if they weren't, you could easily manipulate them.

You can't manipulate odds online, in a game where all enemies are human players, and they're searching and shooting at each other constantly, and where health/ammo pickups respawn in set places. Oh, and Eddie's potential drop list skyrockets, so it's far, far more random.

Please let perfect 1 to 1 accuracy go: 8BDM was never about perfect replication of Classic Mega Man, that was dropped even before alpha. It doesn't always work.

EDIT: And yeah, never been a fan of Copy Vision myself, but that's just me. I mean, I find Metal Blade useless, but that doesn't mean someone else can, and it's not like Copy Vision doesn't work, I just don't like it.
Posted by: ScrapHeap
« on: October 01, 2014, 04:02:57 PM »

But in contrast, when is it going to be hard for your enemy to escape when the least they can do is run, and the most is rebuttal with attacks of their own, usually overpowering your puny little support? And yes, I know you can switch weapons while it's out, but on the maps where copy vision is, there usually aren't weapons that work well with it, although correct me if I'm wrong. My main point was, Copy Vision doesn't feel significant enough to be anything other than an annoyance at best.
Posted by: Lego
« on: October 01, 2014, 03:49:20 PM »

You likely aren't using it correctly, then. It's meant to be basically a second mega buster while you pelt the person you're aiming at with something else...it's quite effective if you use it when it's hard for your opponent to escape for adding onto how much DPS you're dealing.

And yes, that is a much better way of putting it, it primarily annoyed me because "unless Eddie gives you copy vision, getting something you don't already have will always feel like eddie never wasted your time" didn't feel like it made sense. I wasn't angry at the opinion, I was angry at the lack of an obvious side.
And yes, I do get angry when a post doesn't feel like it bears a complete thought.
Posted by: ScrapHeap
« on: October 01, 2014, 03:26:32 PM »

Would it have been better if I did this, Lego?
Spoiler for Hiden:
Quote from: "Ivory"
getting something you don't already have will always feel like eddie never wasted your time.
Unless he gives you copy vision.
Better yet, why don't we just ignore things like that and stick to the topic at hand?

Copy Vision is nearly useless. I know it's a sentry-type thing, but the projectiles don't do much of anything in direct engagements, and fighting defensively with it is worse since it doesn't last long enough to set up a defensive zone. I understand it's supposed to be a support-type power, but it feels more like it's just there rather than a help.
Posted by: BiscuitSlash
« on: October 01, 2014, 03:22:21 PM »

Quote from: "Ivory"
The world doesn't revolve around you though
I'm not commanding what should happen in this update, I'm just giving my own personal opinion.

This is a forum. People are allowed to politely post opinions and ideas.


Me repeatingly posting here is due to me getting the impression that people are not understanding what I'm trying to say, not due to trying to force something into the game.
Posted by: Laggy Blazko
« on: October 01, 2014, 02:59:11 PM »

You sure get angry when someone makes a short post, Lego.
EDIT: and PerfectlyLegit's post was just an opinion, lel.
Posted by: Lego
« on: October 01, 2014, 02:52:23 PM »

Irrelevant. The point of the conversation was talking about how Eddie's v4b changes will remove Eddie's ability to give you a weapon you already have. Your statement makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Not to mention it doesn't even pose a claim...you aren't saying him dropping copy vision is positive or negative and your statement isn't even a complete thought.

Please make sure you have a full thought before posting, otherwise it just clutters things up.
Thank you.
Posted by: ScrapHeap
« on: October 01, 2014, 02:23:02 PM »

Unless he gives you Copy Vision.
Posted by: Ivory
« on: October 01, 2014, 02:09:43 PM »

The world doesn't revolve around you though, there are people who despise getting a weapon they already have and I do agree from a gameplay standpoint, getting something you don't already have will always feel like eddie never wasted your time.
Posted by: BiscuitSlash
« on: October 01, 2014, 12:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "BiscuitSlash"
What I'm saying is, the games faithfulness outweighs the improvement of gameplay
I don't remember ever being frustrated at Eddie giving me something I already have in 8BDM. This "improvement" seems far to minor to warrant dropping the accuracy to the original games.
Posted by: MusashiAA
« on: October 01, 2014, 12:00:23 AM »

Gameplay > accuracy

No discussion there. Some things can be both accurate and playable or balanced, or a non-detriment to the gameplay...but just some things, and they're generally not gameplay-related, because 2D NES platformer design cannot fit in directly in this game without being flawed or reworked. Eddie's already random (which is accurate enough) and with too many choices, and that's generally not good design. Making random things less cumbersome is good, keeping them cumbersome is bad.

EDIT: In better words, randomness in games is not really that bad, it's just not wanted, it's something you may want to avoid when it's not necessary. Eddie's random because that's accurate, but the randomness shouldn't be an obstacle in a fast-paced game, so limiting the randomness is a good approach at this.
Posted by: Laggy Blazko
« on: September 30, 2014, 11:56:48 PM »

Yep. The "luck" factor is essential in eddie. And having some "luck" in the gameplay may be part of its fun.
I don't agree with picking up health/ammo refills when not needed, though, because of the potential griefing in team games
Posted by: BiscuitSlash
« on: September 30, 2014, 11:38:58 PM »

What I'm saying is, the games faithfulness outweighs the improvement of gameplay in the case of Eddie and health/ammo pickups.

Normally I would agree with improving the gameplay, but Eddie giving me something I already have and picking up health/ammo refills when not needed (which could be used for strategy) seems incredibly minor and not worth changing.
Posted by: Gumballtoid
« on: September 30, 2014, 07:15:36 PM »

Agreed. Really, the only scenarios in which I would choose accuracy are in the case of aesthetics, where they don't really impact how the game plays, such as the infamous Crash Bomber vs. Crash Bomb debate. It'd be really tacky to go and eat up all the ammo in team games when you don't need it.