Ghouls vs Humans NES

[CutmanMike]

Eh, I gotta admit I think this mod is pretty damn good for what it's trying to be! I love the sound and graphics choices for a lot of the stuff. As for balance and such, I have no idea how it's going to work but I can safely say you'd have to be very careful about what maps you pick for this mode.

I dunno what to make of the new classes. Personally if I was gonna do this, I would have settled for the original 3-4 classes to see how things would have panned out.

Also don't forget gentlemens, GVH is very old and after playing so many other games, I can see the clearer picture now from when I first made GVH. It is currently not completely balanced either.

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Ahem...INFINITE FLIGHT?! WHAT KIND OF A BRAIN DEAD DEVELOPER GIVES A PLAYER INFINITE FLIGHT TO A CLASS IN A TEAM-BASED MOD?!

  sniff

[Tengu]

May I just say,


I kind of like the fact that the Ghouls are a bit more powerful than the Humans. It adds a bit of "Realism challenge" That I like in a game. The Humans are less powerful, therefore they have to use more teamwork and skill to take down the ghouls, and it feels VERY rewarding when you manage to do so.

[Beed28]

I'm just wondering; how scary is this mod compared to the original GvH and regular Doom II? And is there any gore? I don't want gore of some kind to be seen in such a cartoony enviroment such as Mega Man's.

[SmashTheEchidna]

Eh, the only blood you'll see is from Crunch's attacks.

[MusashiAA]

(click to show/hide)

Ahem...INFINITE FLIGHT?! WHAT KIND OF A BRAIN DEAD DEVELOPER GIVES A PLAYER INFINITE FLIGHT TO A CLASS IN A TEAM-BASED MOD?!

  sniff

GvH is played on with its own mappack which is tailored to its gameplay, MM8BDM maps are in no way designed with this in mind.

This entire reason. This entire fucking reason is why infinite flight is very bad.

Balance is no one's friend. What GVH calls "balance" is something I'd like to call "Ghouls are OP, so let's rid of whatever limitations Humans have for battle so it's easier for them to kill Ghouls".

Ghouls like Choke and Sjas are absurdly OP, way more than they need to be, they're borderline broken. Infinite flight is just begging for abuse, and this is the ability's fault: not the player's or the map's. Yurei has too much health for what she embodies. Cacodemon's a poorly-executed tank. Creeper's hitbox oscillates between this and another 10 dimensions, so he's really hard to hit.

Humans like Hunter, Cyborg and Arthur have no limitations or penalties whatsoever for spamming their weapons, which makes them bland and sassy. Marine's shotgun and pistols don't offer a cheaper, ammo-friendly alternative at damage when compared to the machine gun. Ghotbuster's proton beam has way too much ammo than he'll ever need, same goes for Cyborg's plasma. Engineer's buzzsaws are broken as hell, they can damage teammates.

Humans need tweaks that rid of superflous advantages, and indirect buffs and nerfs to regulate currently (and unnecessarily) uncontrolled abilities; Ghouls must get straight Duel-esque nerfs and buffs.

[Toastman]

              holy fucking shit that yuri. 2spooky/10spooky

[Megaman]

Seems this mod is really suffering from Sonic 06 syndrome.  I was excited to release this, and I wanted to do it on either Halloween or Day of the Dead, but due to my personal deadline, the final product was rushed and published before all the problems could be ironed out.


I'll be taking my time with the next update trying to balance everything and solve some issues.  Sorry to everyone who was expecting something amazing and ended up getting a mess.

[tsukiyomaru0]

OK, *ahem* let me pose my opinion on ALL OF THE CLASSES.

Humans:
* Ghostbuster needs a nerf, specially regarding his Double Drill Beam Of Super Death. why two beams instead of one?
* Engineer needs a nailgun nerf to dispose of the "Fire forever and forget what ammo is". Maybe give him an ammo bar that, when emptied, forces him into a one-second long reload and have the ammo recharge at a good rate while not firing. Also his Buzzsaw needs working and to not "die" when a human steps on it.
* Cyborg the major worry is if someone uses the jet to get to an unreachable place. That can stall the round until one of the sides give in. But, since NOTHING about that can be done, let's consider him in the battlefield: His ammo usage is kinda "absurd" if compared to Ghostbuster. Having only one weapon to rely on and a limited jetpack, he can be easy victim. Perhaps buff both of his Plasma Cannon AND Jetpack ammo.
* Marine: Lower the offset of the pistol hud view, as the bullets seems to be coming from his hands. Also, increase overall bulet speed to make him more effective against Sjas. That done he's golden.
* Arthur is the kind of character that needs to rely the most on "closing off areas" with his flame. That turns him into a "Lethal Joke Character". Of course, I think he is just fine.
* Megaman could perhaps use W-Tanks (at least ONE) in LMS and perhaps gain a weapon from fragging Ghouls. Keyword is "Perhaps".
* Hunter is OP because of unlimited magic. Period.

Ghouls:
* Sjas: Fast? Yes. Lethal? Yes. OP? HARDLY. The thing about Sjas is that he is VERY hard to hit, you have to rely on shooting ahead or shotgunning them off. Don't be fooled by the ammount of kills one gets with him, you need to be at MELEE RANGE for that to work. AT. ALL.
* Choke: He just gets a stun when hit, but take that and what you have? A grounded Sjas that can snipe you from far. The sniping SEEMS OP, but isn't, because everyone is on the move. Unless they don't see that Choke.
* Creeper: Holy Mother of Spinach Rag, that bastard is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to hit without Engineer's Buzzsaw mines or Steam Cannon, Arthur's Torches and Megaman's floorhugger shots. His hitbox is so small you CAN fall into 16 units gaps. Also, he could be "harder to see" while standing still (but not get into full inviz), to give him an edge.
* Jitterskull needs to have the possibility to actually "strafe". That wouldn't be a bad idea, you see. Also, immunity against Falling would help a bit. Mind it ALL maps are in rotation, not only GVH maps.
* Frostbite's Frost Breath. Need I say more? ... I do?! Okay: That is a nightmarish crowd control in cramped maps. not SMALL maps, but just maps with small spaces.
* Yurei is sort of a glass cannon. Okay, her Flame Vortex has wide area of effect, she can scare the hell out of you, but... She is kinda too weak. Takes damage easily. Also, her invisibility is... Wacky.
* Cacodemon is the Joke Character. Completely. Slow, projectiles don't do much, firing sents you flying back. Speed buff to AT LEAST DODGE and no knockback from firing could help. Also, his FireCustomMissile is offsetted to 8 units to right.

Of course, these problems aside, this is one I can say is a candidate of "Expansion of the Year". It is not bad, it just has SOME flaws, but it has a LARGE fun factor, becoming one of the few non-casual game modes I actually play.

[Orange juice :l]

Yurei is too weak? She has full invisibility and an Ohko, not to mention that huge flame vortex. Just run around invisible to recharge your ammo and pull a hit-and-run.

[xColdxFusionx]

* Buff Cyborg's ammo

I'm sorry, what?
He has enough already to get to places where no one can hit him ever. You want to make the stall-fest worse?

* Sjas: Fast? Yes. Lethal? Yes. OP? HARDLY.

Somehow I doubt you actually played this mod.

Sjas is lightning-fast death. You can't even get him with the shotgun most of the time because he's so damn fast.

* Yurei is sort of a glass cannon.

Yurei has 150 HP. Your argument is invalid.

[Tails]

I like this mod a lot because I don't think there's a class that's terribly UP on either sides (I mean you argue Arthur's a little weak and how Caco is, but they're usable and can do their own kills and have moments too) and even though some classes might seem a little OP they're all useful. Good job Mega n pals. ;3

[Balrog]

I should mention that (one of the many) the biggest flaw with this mod is that where the real GvH is played on with its own mappack which is tailored to its gameplay, MM8BDM maps are in no way designed with this in mind. So yes, Sjas having infinite flight is problematic here.

But I will say this. I still don't like this mod. I'll take the real GvH over this any day. Mega asked me for help a long time ago, and it absolutely annoys me to see problems I mentioned almost a year ago STILL exist.
Basically, this entire mod takes the balance of GvH, and throws it away without any regard. What's left this horrible mess that puts a shame to the GvH name. Except that Nordic Saga is still exists. But this is pretty darn awful.

Seconding this. Also, GvH is a Doom mod. Trying to replicate Doom gameplay in MM8BDM is just asking for imbalance and fail.

[tsukiyomaru0]

Excuse me for not spoilering this but... How can one say this is a failure?! I haven't seen a non-casual server this full in a VERY long while!

[Laggy Blazko]

Balance =/= fun =P

Also did anyone try to kill creepers with grenades yet?
I can't believe you're having so much problems with them. They're much easier to spot in this version.

[Korby]

I know, right? Literally every class but Cyborg(as it should be) has a very easy way to deal with them. Grenades, Fire Arrows, all the magic types, Torches, Steam Cannon, random buzzsaws, Ghost Traps/Ice Fountain, and a whole bunch of Megaman's weapons.