DOOM (4)

[Laggy Blazko]

Less than 20 more minutes to go...
http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda
or
https://www.youtube.com/e3

[Emmanuelf06]

I have seen the showcase for DOOM, the game is fast paced, the guy wasnt really reactive in game but the moves were fast, no reload.
In the beginning, it reminds me a lot DOOM3 but it's better, when you do a finish on an ennemy, you can receive some items ! Like in Brutal DOOM!
And there is the multiplayer with some modes like DM or Invasion or one who remind me shotgun frenzy (???), you were able to buy some weapons and others.
And LEVEL CREATOR! (i hope when you run, you dont have a limit for that....like in Wolfenstein TNO or DOOM3...)
For the graphism style, it reminds me DOOM3, but the gameplay is not the same. (but yeah, it seems, the baron of hell doesnt have his horns on his head...)

[CutmanMike]

Copypaste from the zdoom forum:

It looked like Doom 3.5 to be honest, I was hoping for something a little better/different than just that. The editing tools they showed off gave a littlebigplanet vibe which might be cute and cool for players who want to tinker about but not what I'm really interested in. Disappointed.

BTW I think the first scenes they showed were the same ones shown at that private conference at QuakeCon. I remember reading someone describing what they witnessed and it sounded like they were describing what we literally just saw on stream. They even mentioned the cutting off someone's arm to activate a hand sensor.

[Emmanuelf06]

Yeah, it's true...it looks like DOOM3 but more fast paced....or like Quake ? I dont think You can kill 3 imp with 1 shot of SSG like in DOOM2..... :/

[Russel]

Having played only bits of Doom 2, most of Doom 1, [and all of Heretic] I'm not too fond of the whole finisher mechanic from base view.
To be honest the only thing I can say I like are how the monsters act as shown in the previews...they seem to show intelligence and variety...at least some extent.
I can't say I'm particularly hyped for it, though. The coloring just looks really painful and doesn't use a lot of contrast. Hate to say it, but the style reminds me of modern Call of Duty, which I personally find hard on the eyes.

Rest in peace recolor Hell Knight tho.

[Emmanuelf06]

" The coloring just looks really painful and doesn't use a lot of contrast" => it's why i was very sad when i started to see the video.... The colors and graphism type looks poor even if it's nextgen.
But i like a lot the finish, pretty epic.

Anyway, original DOOM (doom1,2 and others wads), his modes and others, can live for a lot of years again, i think

My final post about my feeling.... from zandronum forum.

"I like some gameplay features (finish like in Brutal DOOM, bonus items, double jump, no reload ect...) but the atmopshere looks poor (not the relief) and it seems to be more like DOOM 3 than the DOOM i waited...

After the showcase, i tried to be positive but i must admit, i see this game like a 6/10...... I was pretty sad, it's not really fast paced like DOOM2;.....more like quake (2 or 3 ennemies max in the same time where you need a lot of time to kill them.

In DOOM2, you can kill 3 imp demon with a super shotgun....now ,it looks like "kill the ennemies but 1 by 1" except maybe if you have the rocket launcher or BFG...
I waited something more epic from the videos....maybe if they add more monsters, less HP for the ennemy, more speed again (it looked not so fast) and a redesign for the baron of hell (where are the horns???) It could be very good....but now....im sad...I wanted this DOOM to be the game who can show the path of the true Fast paced action shooter of the old doom.
If they keep this way, it will be certainly a fun and good game, but not an epic one and not so dynamic too....

Anyways, i will buy it, they will release it in 1 year, i hope they can modify some things, i can dream anyway'.......
Oh yeah, i thought Quake was too dark for me, but Quake has a good evil style, very good level design and complexe exploration, very good game.
But here, the exploration/level design/graphism reminds me more Duke Nukem Forever, a little......

At least we have always the old retro fps like Quake Doom, Heretic.....and a lot of others (lol Hexen 2 has a "run" who is faster than DOOMGUY (but yeah less weapons).
It's why i think all the retro fps like those (Blood, Shadow Warrior too) will be always the best games....it's sad but at least, long live to the DOOM community and others retro fps community.

EDIT 2 (zandronum forum): I will try to be more positive, we havent seen a full stage (in hard mode by exemple), so i can't really say how is the game...but there is a lot of positive points, like the Revenant, he looks epic, the "no reload" is the best idea and the animations (finish) are greats.
I hope to see more in 1 year hehe
Yeah he played with a gamepad, it's why it looked weird (and maybe easy mode too )

[Laggy Blazko]

It's like they stole my wishlist and put everything on it in the game, oh my God!
The only downside is the running speed, but I'd still consider it "fast enough".
I'm definitely buying it!

[MusashiAA]

It's almost Brutal Doom in 3D, minus the shitload of monsters at the same time Doom.

All it's missing is a swearing button.

[Emmanuelf06]

It's like they stole my wishlist and put everything on it in the game, oh my God!
The only downside is the running speed, but I'd still consider it "fast enough".
I'm definitely buying it!

I was too negative, like each time I need to sleep (it was 4am when i posted lol).
I think, the gameplay is dark like quake (colors yeah) and the gameplay is maybe like quake/doom, more 1 monster by 1, than 2 or 4 who can be killed with a shotgun or others...but i like it, the method to beat the ennemies with the finish is awesome.

For the level creator, they needed to make one for new players too, not only a new "Doom Builder next gen" because Doom builder can be too complexe for new people. At least, with this one (more simple) all the people can make level without problems, i think.

A good nextgen (of gamers) DOOM too ! I hope just, there is more various maps! But i can understand, they made a new fight system (not totaly like brutal doom) so yeah.

The best moment for me was the finish on the mancubus, more like "rip and eat your guts" Lol

[Rozark]

For the level creator, they needed to make one for new players too, not only a new "Doom Builder next gen" because Doom builder can be too complexe for new people. At least, with this one (more simple) all the people can make level without problems, i think.

Ew gross QTE finishers and Map Snapping
Passing on this

[Koal]

For the level creator, they needed to make one for new players too, not only a new "Doom Builder next gen" because Doom builder can be too complexe for new people. At least, with this one (more simple) all the people can make level without problems, i think.

Ew gross QTE finishers and Map Snapping
Passing on this

So you'll pass on a game because of finisher's that take literally a second and a simple map building system that allows novice players to make their own maps? Take off your damn nostalgia glasses before somebody smashes them into your face.
IN fact, this remind's me of every elitist section of a community that cries "THEY CHANGED/ADDED SOMETHING! ITS RUINED FOREVER" when a new game is released. And this is a big reason why gaming has become so stagnant, because literally nothing changes in between games except a new story and new character models. The engine is the same, the mechanic's are the same, EVERYTHING IS THE SAME. Take a look at Call of Duty beyond Modern Warfare. There's literally no difference between the games. Battlefield is unfortunately a victim of this too, because Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 felt literally the same. The nostalgia glasses does not help in this case.

So I leave this as a message to all of you: Take off your nostalgia glasses and look at the game with an objective point a view. you'll be doing EVERYONE a favor.

[Emmanuelf06]

With the fourth DOOM, i can understand why nextgen game are so different in the style than the old ones....
Because, it needs to be good for a lot of people, not only for the old fans and because nextgen means new design because you can't use a simple sprite and make it nextgen or HD, you need to make a total redesign for it.....who can be good for the maximum of people.
And see how the new DOOM is futurist, if you put a normal shotgun like the first DOOM, not sure it could look like a enough powerful weapon.
It seems, they made a "big" design for those weapons to be sure it will look powerful big fucking shotgun! xD
I mean, The atmosphere of the game is different, more like Quake+ futurist style of DOOM, they needed to make new design for the weapons. Anyways, if there is some things who need to be modified, they will do, the game will be released in 1 year.
More perfect, more blood, more guts destroyed!

For the level creator, it was the last thing they showed at E3, what if there wasnt no level creator at all? And yeah, think for the new players or doom gamers who never made maps because doom builder is too complex for them. With this one, it will be faster to make maps and im pretty sure They will enjoy it.
If it was a DoomBuilder Nextgen, it could fail. A nextgen game must be made for all the people, not only for the old generation (or people who prefer the old versions).

[Russel]

I wasn't particularly fond of the tone Koal took in his post, so I decided to review the footage of the new Doom again and bring up a few points.

First and foremost, I have never been emotionally attached to the original Dooms. I played very little of them in vanilla compared to a good percentage of the community. My original complaint about the finisher mechanics stemmed from me thinking players got rewarded for taking extra time to do the flashy finishers. After reviewing the footage again, it looks like the finishers don't directly reward you with health and ammo, but rather just killing enemies in general do.
This rectifies that, which was honestly the thing that peved me the most from the initial showcase.

My other complaint still stands, while I certainly wasn't the colors to be vibrant by any means, I don't think dark and tan was a good way to take the coloring.

Finally, the Snap Map feature is a tad saddening. While it does make map making more accessable to newcomers, premade map pieces don't really lend themselves to the full limits of one's creativity and that is why Rozark was upset with it.
That being said, I expect this game to be fully moddable, given it's being released by id and Bethesda.
It might be completely possible for a mapping to tool to get developed that would be able to support creating maps for this game without limitation.

[Shade Guy]

To be honest I was somewhat fond of the SnapMap feature because it reminded me of Timesplitters 2's map editor which was my first ever experience with mapping for first persons shooters, hah. "Nostalgia glasses" with a different result?

I think what's important to recognise is that promotion for this game is, in the vein of E3, still very much in its most basic 'showy-off' phase. Developers think the setting and the finishers look good so they show it off by having the (scripted) player move slowly and get them to use finishers as often as possible. As suggested by Lego however finishers don't seem to be an integral part of the game and I also noticed players running much faster during the SnapMap part of the trailer so I imagine the maximum movement speed is more akin to that.

The speaker briefly acknowledges the Doom community as "one of the most active and creative in gaming", but it is more telling that he follows it with: "Now with Doom SnapMap we're putting that power of creation in the hands of every player". In other words, 'now we're letting everyone else get a taste of what was previously available only to a few dozen individuals with too much free time on their hands using external modding programs'. SnapMap is for the 'everyone else'; the speaker calls it a "built-in gateway" and I am fond of seeing it as such. It may not have all the tools that Doom Builder has, but surely anyone that grows enthused enough about mapmaking will reach outwards to other modding tools anyway?? Especially if the game does become externally moddable then I imagine SnapMap being a great stepping stone towards that. The instant-sharing nature emphasised seems like an exciting alternative to a community dominated by a handful of map packs made by equally as few content creators anyway.

[Rozark]

So you'll pass on a game because of finisher's that take literally a second and a simple map building system that allows novice players to make their own maps? Take off your damn nostalgia glasses before somebody smashes them into your face.
IN fact, this remind's me of every elitist section of a community that cries "THEY CHANGED/ADDED SOMETHING! ITS RUINED FOREVER" when a new game is released. And this is a big reason why gaming has become so stagnant, because literally nothing changes in between games except a new story and new character models. The engine is the same, the mechanic's are the same, EVERYTHING IS THE SAME.

Hi your attitude here is terrible; I was never attached to the Doom series to begin with and if the Megaman aesthetic didn't exist then perhaps at the time I would've never became wrapped up in all of this. I had no nostalgia for Doom to begin with.

Like Shade Guy, I too experienced and had fun with Timesplitter 2's SnapMap Editor. (coughmexicanmissioncough)
It's great for beginners and was one of the things that got me into mapping, hell, Evacuation (IRI06) is a slightly modified recreation of my best map that came from that game.
However, as Lego said, while SnapMap is a great thing that anyone can use, it limits the creativity people can dish out and that makes me sad. (Hence the slightly modified part)
Any interest in this game (If I were to even get it to begin with) would stem from how the modding community branches out from this sort of thing. I'd like to see it break the limit it's been given.

As for the QTE's, I'm just against them in general so bleh go hate me for that I guess.