[CTF Map Pack] KCTF - Remastered (V1bX)

[Shade Guy]

Flash Stopper should be removed because, well, it blinds players...Which is both annoying and cheap. CTF revolves around either running to or away something/someone, which is made all the more frustrating when you're constantly being blinded. There's a reason it isn't found on any other CTF map, if I'm not mistaken.

Regarding weapons in the bases, let me say I completely agree with Mr. X here. Let's say you spawn in the flag room and there are enemy players spawn camping (a scenario that popped up frequently when I was playing with Mr. X). Now, the enemies are most likely on one of the raised sections of the base (either around the flag or at the top of the stairs to either side), so Bubble Lead is completely ineffective. The other weapon in the immediate area is Spark Shock, which while might be good in conjunction with another weapon, is not when the other weapon in the immediate area is useless. Also note that the enemy player would probably be spamming Screw Crusher, an area denial weapon, which makes Air Shooter, the next closest weapon, less useful as well.
I would suggest moving one or two of the moderately good weapons from the middle of the map to the bases...Replace one of the weapons in the base with Thunder Beam, perhaps?

I'll also reiterate my complaint to you from earlier that platforms that raise/lower when a player walks into them in CTF are silly. Since the platforms only let one player use them at a time, it gets really messy in a multiplayer game; the more people in the server, the worse. It's especially problematic in a tight situation; perhaps another player on your team that has the enemy flag is being chased, and is about to run on to the platform. However, you mistakenly walk on, and essentially screw your teammate over, since now they've just run into a wall. It really isn't team-friendly, and in a team based mode, why keep is that acceptable?

[Mr. X]

Yeah, Shade pretty well summed it up.  What I meant by "too weak of weapons/weapons ill equipped for most of the map", I specifically meant Spark shock and Bubble lead respectively.  All the enemy had to do to render Bubble Lead useless was go up the stairs by the flag.  This in turn made Spark Shock also ineffective since the weapon you'd switch to is now useless.

About Flash Stopper, it should really only be used in DM maps where it would be most useful (i.e. lots of pits and stuff).  In this map, the only thing you'd happen to wander into are the elec traps, but it rarely happens that you're just standing around there anyways.  Thus, its only function is to be really annoying.  Plus it's team based, so having a group of people on one team with Flash Stopper makes it just downright maddening.  PLUS the platforms its on are so high that people can easily hide in the back corner without being seen.

[Knux]

Well, I've thought about a team with Flash Stopper before. I guess AoE weapons aren't very friendly in team games. The solution is simpler than you think, however: replacing Item 1 with Rush Coil. While there are only two Item 1 pickups in the map, they respawn very quickly. Rush Coil, on the other hand, takes a while. If worst comes to worst, I'll just replace the weapon. Just keep in mind that unless everyone is having silly trolling fun, not all of them will go get it instead of, say, Top Spin.

I believe the worst camp spot would be on top of the electric generators, so a couple windows should solve that.

As for the base weapons, I can see where you're coming from. However, Thunder Beam in there is a horrible idea. Up close, it's a OHKO. From afar, it rips through everything. When running, it screws up people sidewayslul. I think switching Crash Bomb and Bubble Lead's locations would make more sense. Spark Shock and Crash Bomb can be devastating together. Sounds good?

I'll also reiterate my complaint to you from earlier that platforms that raise/lower when a player walks into them in CTF are silly.... However, you mistakenly walk on, and essentially screw your teammate over, since now they've just run into a wall. It really isn't team-friendly, and in a team based mode, why keep is that acceptable?

It usually IS a bad idea to take the elevator. It's high risk, high return and, aside from 1vs1 situations, you should never rely on it. Use the stairs. Take other routes. Use the boost to get through. You even know that it's generally a bad idea to take it. So don't!  

Anyway guys, I REALLY must apologize for KCTF02's right side route. Danger Wrap was supposed to be Bubble Lead, and I somehow got them mixed up. There are two ripping weapons, too. And although those were intentional, now they feel kind of wrong. Not that I ever go through that route. I am strongly considering doing something about the whole map. Again.

And if I redo it all again, no steps in the middle route. Instead, I think that if the right side route was the middle one, but a little bigger, it might work with more trees for base cover in the middle of the pits... how's that sound?

[Mr. X]

How is changing the way up to Flash Stopper so that it takes LESS time to get up there better than the way where you may get shot while making stairs?  Sure, the respawn time is worse on Rush Coil but most of our match, people were using Rush Coil to get up there already.  Item-1 was mainly used for Top Spin (which actually was not that big of a factor in our game) and blocking people.

I think Thunder Bolt would work better for the bases.  Crash Bomb is a bit too much of a specialty weapon where Thunder Bolt is decent all around but not overly good.  In general, I think bases should have a decent-but-not-great all around weapon instead of something requiring a combo.

You also say how bad of an idea it is to take the elevator but every time it was used in our game, it was to the person using the elevator's advantage.  People from the other team can't follow you up it.  Also, even if it were worse, why even have it in the map then if you're not supposed to take it?

[Knux]

Sure, the respawn time is worse on Rush Coil but most of our match, people were using Rush Coil to get up there already.

Except it's not on the map.  

You also say how bad of an idea it is to take the elevator but every time it was used in our game, it was to the person using the elevator's advantage.  People from the other team can't follow you up it.  Also, even if it were worse, why even have it in the map then if you're not supposed to take it?

Sorry, I have stairs everywhere. Deal with it.

[Mr. X]

It wasn't?  I thought I had seen it, my mistake.  Either way, my point stands that it seems like you're only compounding the problem by making it easier to grab the items.

Also, ok then.  DON'T fix the problems that we observed by actually playing the level and instead have it in your head that the level flow works one way when it clearly doesn't.  It's a shame too, the elevators and weapons were the only observable problems.

[Knux]

[Mr. X]

Sorry, I have stairs everywhere. Deal with it.

Yeah, don't know where I got the idea you wouldn't change it...my mistake.  Whatever, I'm done.

[Ivory]

Remember, alienating the people who actually try to help you is never a bright idea.

[Knux]

Oh okay.

[11:43:30 PM] Knux: Well, let's see...
- Flash Stopper to Hard Knuckle. Platform nerfed.
- Elevators to stairs.
- Bubble Lead switched places with Thunder Bolt.
- Air Shooter to Needle Cannon.
- Details.

Free candy.

Anyone else can test it and compare as well, obviously. I'll take down the link on Wednesday though, so get it now.

Now get out.

EDIT: Link borked.

[Mr. X]

That's much better, thank you.  I'd just like to note something important here though:  I basically have stopped giving any feedback to a large majority of this community because quite frankly, I lack confidence that they'd actually bother wanting to make a better product.  I wouldn't have done it for you if I hadn't believed there were potential.  As I said before, the map's layout other than these problems is pretty solid, and you should be proud of it.  I mean that.

Now go find less muffled musi-*shot*

[Hallan Parva]

- Flash Stopper to Hard Knuckle. Platform nerfed.

now see taking out Flash Stopper would be fine but

Hard Knuckle

FUCK.




whatever I'll try it anyway

[Mr. X]

Hard Knuckle is getting a slight nerf in v3a anyways

[Knux]

Hollow Greenroad is finished. Thanks to Nemz, I have rotating Cloud Man fans in there, too!

Here's a screenie of Power Crater's skybox:

(click to show/hide)

Progress is going super slow, but it's still going.

EDIT: Oh, what the heck. Have a screenie of a side route in Hollow Greenroad:

(click to show/hide)

Featuring rotating fans!

EDIT: Replaced Hard Knuckle in Lux Quadrant with Rolling Cutter. It's just more deadly in those hallways and especially the bases.

[Knux]

Stuff from deleted December 3, 2012 post:

(click to show/hide)

I wish I could put up two polls.

Since Torn Woods is tough to travel, I was thinking of making the right side route into the central one, with a few changes. There are a few ways I could go about redoing things, but I'd like to avoid redoing the whole map as I already did that once. Got milk?

I'm holding up on making Waveyard until v3a. Though Power Crater is still in progress. Expect some MM8 stuff in the next release for all maps as well.

...City theme seems to be winning. Actually, it's beggining to look like the best mapping route. If it doesn't get beat in the next two weeks, I'll let it win.

So those side routes in KCTF04 are terrible because you need to go up a wall obligatorily? Not anymore. I opened the walls through the middle, and deleted the plain looking empty paths to the bases, opening up a new one in the process:

(click to show/hide)

And I also raised the big crystal section of the floor into a pillar. This should prevent "base to base" firefights.

I'm also working on Power Crater at the same time. Here's a WIP pic of the right side route:

(click to show/hide)

Get the easy Bass Buster or work for the Atomic Fire? You could go for a W Tank instead...

Waveyard will have surprise textures that will be either liked or hated. I haven't started it yet, though.