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Topics - SaviorSword

Pages: [1] 2
1
For my sick and morbid curiosity, I'd like to know folks' top and bottom 5 favorite deathmatch vanilla maps.

Why? It may not point out the "best" made map in vanilla, but it really helps to find "popular picks" and might show correlation with certain design choices with their popularity.


While ya pick yar tops and bottoms, ya don't need to order yar choices or need to explain why for simplicity's sake. I also encourage ya to try and consider the map with weapon, item, and health layouts but when ya choose yar maps it's ultimately base'd on yar own criteria.


IMPORTANT RULE: This is all folks' OPINION. Do NOT under any circumstance attack anyone for their choices of their top and bottom 5 favorites. Also, keep the discussions clean too.


I will eventually tally the results, so please try to fill yar picks with 5 choices.
Thanks and have fun!



My Tops:
MM2DW1
MM5DAR
MM8SWO
MM8SEA
MM8DW1

My Bots:
MM2BUB
MM2CRA
MM4DIV
MM5WAV
MMWTMWS



Top totals:
Spoiler for Hiden:
====1====
MM1CUT: 0
MM1GUT: 0
MM1ELE: 1
MM1BOM: 0
MM1ICE: 0
MM1FIR: 0
MM1TIM: 0
MM1OIL: 2
MM1DW1: 1
MM1DW2: 0
====2====
MM2BUB: 0
MM2AIR: 0
MM2FLA: 1
MM2HEA: 1
MM2QUI: 2
MM2CRA: 1
MM2WOO: 0
MM2MET: 2
MM2DW1: 4
MM2DW2: 0
MM2DW3: 0
====3====
MM3SNA: 0
MM3TOP: 0
MM3HAR: 0
MM3SPA: 0
MM3SHA: 1
MM3NEE: 4
MM3MAG: 1
MM3GEM: 1
MM3DW1: 1
====4====
MM4PHA: 0
MM4BRI: 0
MM4DIV: 1
MM4DRI: 0
MM4TOA: 0
MM4DUS: 4
MM4RIN: 0
MM4SKU: 0
MM4DC1: 3
====5====
MM5CHA: 3
MM5STO: 2
MM5NAP: 1
MM5WAV: 1
MM5STA: 1
MM5GRA: 1
MM5CRY: 1
MM5GYR: 2
MM5DAR: 9
====6====
MM6TOM: 1
MM6CEN: 1
MM6KNI: 2
MM6BLI: 0
MM6FLA: 1
MM6WIN: 0
MM6PLA: 1
MM6YAM: 0
MM6MRX: 6
====7====
MM7STR: 4
MM7FRE: 0
MM7JUN: 3
MM7CLO: 1
MM7BUR: 1
MM7SPR: 1
MM7SLA: 0
MM7SHA: 5
MM7TUR: 1
MM7DW1: 2
MM7DW2: 0
MM7DW3: 2
MM7DW4: 0
====8====
MM8TEN: 1
MM8AST: 2
MM8SWO: 3
MM8CLO: 0
MM8SEA: 1
MM8FRO: 2
MM8GRE: 3
MM8AQU: 0
MM8DUO: 7
MM8DW1: 1
MM8DW2: 0
====B====
MMBMUS: 0
MMBTEN: 1
MMBAST: 0
MMBDYN: 0
MMBCOL: 0
MMBGRO: 4
MMBPIR: 0
MMBBUR: 1
MMBMAG: 1
MMBKIN: 2
MMBDW1: 0
====WT====
MMWTBRG: 1
MMWTMWS: 1
MMWTHSH: 5
MMWTDW1: 1
MMWTDW2: 1
====9====
MM9CON: 1
MM9TOR: 3
MM9SPL: 0
MM9PLU: 0
MM9JEW: 2
MM9HOR: 0
MM9MAG: 1
MM9GAL: 3
MM9DW1: 0
MM9DW2: 0
MM9DW3: 0
MM9FAK: 3

Bottom totals:
Spoiler for Hiden:
====1====
MM1CUT: 3
MM1GUT: 0
MM1ELE: 3
MM1BOM: 0
MM1ICE: 6
MM1FIR: 0
MM1TIM: 0
MM1OIL: 0
MM1DW1: 0
MM1DW2: 1
====2====
MM2BUB: 2
MM2AIR: 1
MM2FLA: 5
MM2HEA: 1
MM2QUI: 0
MM2CRA: 9
MM2WOO: 0
MM2MET: 1
MM2DW1: 5
MM2DW2: 0
MM2DW3: 1
====3====
MM3SNA: 0
MM3TOP: 1
MM3HAR: 1
MM3SPA: 2
MM3SHA: 0
MM3NEE: 0
MM3MAG: 0
MM3GEM: 0
MM3DW1: 1
====4====
MM4PHA: 9
MM4BRI: 1
MM4DIV: 2
MM4DRI: 0
MM4TOA: 1
MM4DUS: 4
MM4RIN: 0
MM4SKU: 0
MM4DC1: 0
====5====
MM5CHA: 2
MM5STO: 1
MM5NAP: 1
MM5WAV: 12
MM5STA: 3
MM5GRA: 1
MM5CRY: 0
MM5GYR: 7
MM5DAR: 0
====6====
MM6TOM: 1
MM6CEN: 0
MM6KNI: 0
MM6BLI: 1
MM6FLA: 1
MM6WIN: 1
MM6PLA: 0
MM6YAM: 0
MM6MRX: 0
====7====
MM7STR: 0
MM7FRE: 0
MM7JUN: 1
MM7CLO: 2
MM7BUR: 1
MM7SPR: 0
MM7SLA: 1
MM7SHA: 0
MM7TUR: 1
MM7DW1: 0
MM7DW2: 1
MM7DW3: 0
MM7DW4: 1
====8====
MM8TEN: 0
MM8AST: 0
MM8SWO: 0
MM8CLO: 4
MM8SEA: 0
MM8FRO: 0
MM8GRE: 0
MM8AQU: 0
MM8DUO: 0
MM8DW1: 1
MM8DW2: 0
====B====
MMBMUS: 2
MMBTEN: 1
MMBAST: 0
MMBDYN: 3
MMBCOL: 1
MMBGRO: 1
MMBPIR: 3
MMBBUR: 0
MMBMAG: 6
MMBKIN: 0
MMBDW1: 1
====WT====
MMWTBRG: 3
MMWTMWS: 2
MMWTHSH: 0
MMWTDW1: 1
MMWTDW2: 0
====9====
MM9CON: 0
MM9TOR: 1
MM9SPL: 1
MM9PLU: 0
MM9JEW: 0
MM9HOR: 1
MM9MAG: 1
MM9GAL: 2
MM9DW1: 0
MM9DW2: 1
MM9DW3: 0
MM9FAK: 0

Total entries: 27

2
W.I.P Forum / The Idea(s) Topic
« on: June 25, 2012, 08:05:42 PM »
Ever got a project idea that yar not too sure that it'll work? Or maybe ya have a brilliant idea, but no work has been done at all? Here's a good place to dump stuff into, and hopefully mature into a topic worthy of bein' a WIP topic. And, of course, ultimately into a full fledged project!

3
Rejected / Linedef fixes
« on: November 18, 2011, 03:36:49 PM »
As I have already scanned through the IX Pack and AMP. I might as well do the same to the main pk3 for maps that have linedefs that lack the block monster property where its needed.

MM1FIR: They can get stuck in the fire trap areas, but addin' block monsters there shouldn't hurt.
MM2QUI: Although it has no pits, I suggest that ya add block monster so that bots won't run into the beams.
MM3TOP: Spike pit area.
MM4TOA: Waterfall to the pit area.
MM4BRI: One step on the side pit of the map.
MM4DUS: All bots can be crushed. Maybe a linedef on the crusher area wouldn't hurt.
MM6YAM: Conveyer belt sides.
MM6MRX: The outside buildin' with Gyro Attack, one of the side that's close to the main buildin'.
MM7SHA: Spiral staircase area.

I gotta say, I'm surprised to find this many mistakes, but ratio wise this is pk3 that has the least amount of problems. Also I noticed somethin' odd. There's a clank sound whenever the main Freeze Cracker breaks, but I never heard it online.



Last thin', a little shout out to my weapons and items tweak topic. I changed the polls and I want folks that voted to vote again for changes on weapons and such.

4
Help & Editing / Rippers, How do they work?
« on: October 21, 2011, 05:38:46 PM »
It's been a long time since I've had this question, but due to bein' quite lazy, I've never have found the answer at the moment.
Let's take Metal Blade and Ice Slasher for a moment.

Metal Blade:
Code: [Select]
actor MetalBlade
{
PROJECTILE
scale 2.5
+RIPPER
+DONTBLAST
Speed 40
Radius 3
Height 4
Damage (14)
States
{
Spawn:
METL AB 3
loop
}
}

Ice Slasher:
Code: [Select]
actor IceSlasher
{
PROJECTILE
Radius 5
Height 5
scale 2.5
damagetype "Ice2"
damage (11)
+RIPPER
speed 22
States
{
Spawn:
ICES AB 3
loop
}
}

A player is 16 in radius and 52? in height. For each tic, when the porjectile is in the target's body it deals damage. My problem is how much damage is calculated when the projectile is half-way into the target's body.
For instance, If an attacker is 40 units away from a dummy and threw a Metal Blade and in 1 tic the Metal Blade would have 3 of its radius inside the target and the other stickin' out. Now how much damage would that be?

5
MM8BDM Discussion / Weapons Damage per Second Chart
« on: September 07, 2011, 09:30:04 PM »
Well as a few folks might have seen my experiments, I am currently workin' on gatherin' information on how much damage weapons will do in either a minute or a second. I have found a way to find a good testin' conditions so I can eliminate as much outside variables as I can. They will be in the spoilers below.

Spoiler for Hiden:
MM3SHA is the best place that I can think of to conduct these kinds of test. The dummy will have to use the teleporter and back up onto the wall. the attacker will use the teleporter as well and use "turn180" so they will face the dummy correctly. Rippers are still in a concern so if ya have any suggestions for that, then I'll accept it. Let loose on the dummy for 2 minutes straight. Gather the damage done after the trail. To get DPS, take the number and divide it by 120. For DPM take the number and divide by 2. For any weapon that requires to be point blank, then the attacker needs to get in point blank and start lettin' loose.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Time starts when the trigger is 1st pulled, then the trigger is stopped when time is up. So the distance between the dummy and attacker is not important to be controlled, since what matters is that how many projectiles were able to be shot.


For folks who want to contribute to this "project", use the above settin's and post yar data below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old data found from MM3SHA lab.
Spoiler for Hiden:
So ya folks want the data? Here ya go!

Mega Man 1 Weapons

Mega Buster: 5530
Fire Storm (Both): 10880
Fire Storm (Shot): 5380
Fire Storm (Hugs): 5903
Ice Slasher: 15708
Thunder Beam (one): 5400
Thunder Beam (all): 16200

Mega Man 2 Weapons:

Metal Blade: 6062, 12012
Quick Boomerang: 11825
Crash Bomb: 10320
Leaf Shield: 2340
Air Shooter: 17025
Time Stopper: 0

Mega Man 3 Weapons:

Magnet Missile: 4320
Needle Cannom: 8604
Gemini Laser: 5880
Hard Knuckle: 11520
Spark Shock: 1800

Mega Man 4 Weapons:

Flash Stopper: 392**
Dive Missile: 1080
Skull Barrier: 0

Mega Man 5 Weapons:

Gravity Hold: 1780
Star Crash: 13032, 12852
Napalm Bomb: 9744
Charge Kick: 7800
Water Wave: 10368

Mega Man 6 Weapons:

Yamato Spear: 12992
Sliver Tomahawk: 6300
Flame Blast (Shot): 7175

Mega Man 7 Weapons:

Freeze Cracker: 6325
Slash Claw: 11418**

Other Weapons:

Ballade Cracker: 5362
Mirror Buster: N/A*


[*]Since there are many variables for this weapon, I will not test the damage.
[**]All AoE weapons are done at point blank and with other weapons as well.
[***] All weapon damage is gathered through a 2 minute trial with the given conditions on the spoiler above.[/spoiler]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update:
I've made a map that suits my needs for further weapons testin'. Here's a few screenshots for what it looks like.
There are 2 versions, one for single-player and the other is for multiplayer. For Single player version to work, the map must be opened from DoomBuilder.
Single:http://www.mediafire.com/?fbmoe0sqcqg3c1e
Multi: http://www.mediafire.com/?2248nq671n2aijb
Spoiler for Hiden:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Spoiler for Hiden:
I fear that there might be some differences between my lab and MM3SHA so I'll post my test results from the lab here and the above results from MM3SHA. Same test conditions apply here in my lab as well, such as the 2 minute rule, point blank rule with certain weapon, and everythin' else.

Mega Man 1 Weapons and Busters:
Mega Buster: 5170
Bass Buster: 6438
Proto Buster (uncharged): 6640
Proto Buster (charged): 2750
Rolling Cutter:
Thunder Beam (one): 5400
Thunber Beam (all): 16200
Ice Slasher:
Fire Storm (shot): 5180
Fire Storm (hugs):
Fire Storm (both):
Hyper Bomb:
Super Arm:

Mega Man 2 Weapons
Metal Blade: 12012
Bubble Lead:
Atomic Fire (small):
Atomic Fire (big):
Leaf Shield: 2340
Air Shooter (all): 17025
Crash Bomb:
Time Stopper: 0
Quick Boomerang: 11825

Mega Man 3 Weapons
Magnet Missile: 4320
Hard Knuckle: 11520
Top Spin:
Shadow Blade:
Spark Shock: 1800
Search Snake (ground): 8599
Search Snake (air): 6160
Gemini Laser: 5880
Needle Cannon: 8604

Mega Man 4 Weapons
Rain Flush:
Flash Stopper:
Pharaoh Shot (Small):
Pharaoh Shot (Large):
Ring Boomerang:
Dust Crusher:
Skull Barrier: 0
Dive Missile: 1080
Drill Bomb:

Mega Man 5 Weapons
Power Stone (one): 3825
Charge Kick: 7800
Water Wave:
Star Crash (shot): 4820
Star Crash (hugs):
Gravity Hold:
Gyro Attack (one): 6453
Crystal Eye (all): 6320
Napalm Bomb:

Mega Man 6 Weapons
Knight Crush:
Centaur Flash:
Wind Storm: 20104
Flame Blast (shot): 7175
Blizzard Attack:
Plant Barrier: 0
Sliver Tomahawk: 6300
Yamato Spear:

Mega Man 7 Weapons
Danger Warp: 6156
Thunder Bolt: 4475
Junk Shield (hugs):
Junk Shield (shots):
Freeze Cracker (Main): 3810
Slash Claw:
Wild Coil (uncharged):
Wild Coil (charged):  
Noise Crush (uncharged): 4300
Noise Crush (charged):  
Scorch Wheel:

Other Weapons
Mirror Buster: N/A
Sakugarne:
Screw Crusher: 12912
Ballade Cracker:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a good scientist knows that good data will be done in trials, so the numbers that I have here are what I got chronologically.
I will continue to do my research!

Thank ya target dummies and others for helpin' me out! Ya folks shall never be forgotten!

Hall of Fame
Spoiler for Hiden:
Hiffe150 (Timer)
Zytix
Orange Juice
Star Dood

Comments? Leave them below and discuss!

6
Help & Editing / BUGGER MY SERVER!!!
« on: August 18, 2011, 08:30:03 PM »
Recently I'm havin' problems where I can NOT host my server what-so-ever.
I have my port forwarded correctly, however it still will not show up on Doomseeker.
I do have it to broadcast to the server list.

I'm stumped, and I can not figure out any other way to fight this bugger...

Spoiler for Hiden:

Sometimes I get some error message, which I think its been posted around the help section. I don't have a screen of it yet, but I'll try to find one as soon as possible.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By the way, why is there always some connection timeout?

Spoiler for Hiden:

Look at the bottom left corner.

7
Maps / Savior's Map(s)
« on: August 12, 2011, 09:35:53 PM »
At last I have finished one of my map. In the future, expect more from me!

SAVDM01: Gravity Facility
Screenshots
Spoiler for Hiden:
This is my first finished map ever!






Grab it now here!
http://www.mediafire.com/?s4djbqc43ckct6q

Questions or anythin' to say? Please drop off a word or two here as well!
Have fun folks!

8
Help & Editing / Text Glitch
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:00:43 AM »
Now this problem has haunted me for quite a while, so now would be a good time to solve this problem.
This thin' what I call the "Text Glitch" happens VERY randomly. Sometimes I will get a slight client lag, and then the glitch happens. For some reason, my keyboard loses the ability to type in English characters and SkullTag will not recognize what I'm tryin' to type in. Strange thin' is that it will almost always know whenever I press my chat button "t" and Esc, but nothin' else. So I can't try to talk to others that I have the Text Glitch, since it won't read my "Enter" command. If I try to type, I will get some non-sense characters. If I type very fast, the game will start givin' me beepin' sounds. This beep is from the game, not my computer. The only way to "fix" this glitch is for me to close the game and reopen it.

I tried to get screenshots, but the glitch won't pick up the screenshot button input.


Why does this happen?
How do I fix it if I get it?

Thanks for anyone who helps!

9
Help & Editing / Host IP change
« on: June 12, 2011, 03:57:51 AM »
About 2 weeks ago, I got to host for the 1st time with my new router. After 2 days, the IP of my server changed (strangely), so I had to reconfigure the router to get the server to show up. Here's the catch though.

The 1st few times when I hosted, I could host my server and get DoomSeeker to reload servers, browse the internet, and whatnot. But now if I host, I could not do any of the said thin's. Is there a way to make sure ya can change yar server's IP address, so I won't be locked down to only hostin' my server? Other that hostin' another server... which means I must configure the router for THAT server alone. :

10
MM8BDM Discussion / MM7 Expansion Discussion Topic
« on: June 10, 2011, 07:23:22 PM »
This can be in the wrong section, but however the MM8BDM Discussion section would be the best place to attract people's attention. So I don't mind this bein' moved, but I'm just givin' my 2 cents about this issue.

Back to topic!
What do ya think of it? Love it? Like it? Dislike it? Hate it?
Balance Problems? Map Problems? Just say anythin'!

11
MM8BDM Discussion / Fantasy Match-Ups
« on: June 01, 2011, 05:34:14 AM »
As all of us know, not everyone who plays MM8BDM plays anymore. However, those who do not play anymore are still remembered and whatever they left behind for the community will be eternal for those who remember.

Some play to have fun, to win, to compete, or just to improve. We can't always play, and we watch what we can't play. Sometimes we can't watch what we always want to watch, so in this topic, I'd like to hear out what match-ups ya fantasize, and would wish to see. Ya may discuss about other people's fantasies, but please keep it civil.
While makin' yar post, please have the required information.

Fantasy Match-Up Mode:
Players:
Map(s):
Limits:
Flags and conditions:
Any other special conditions: (Usually stuff that SkullTag can't keep track of, like use one weapon only for any mode or Best of 5 for duels)

Here's an example
Spoiler for Hiden:
Fantasy Match-Up Mode: Duel
Players: Mega Man vs Bass
Map(s): MM1CUT
Limits: 10 Frag, 25 Minutes
Flags and conditions: sv_fastweapons 2
Any other special conditions: Use keyboard only, Best of 3

Without further a due, here's my fantasies.


Fantasy Match-Up Mode: Duel
Players: Rawk Hawk vs Celebi
Map(s): MM1CUT, MM3HAR, MM6KNI
Limits: 10 Frag
Flags and conditions: Crouching enabled, No Autoaim, and Enable ChaseCam
Any other special conditions: Best of 3


Fantasy Match-Up Mode: Duel
Players: Rose vs Celebi
Map(s): MM3HAR, MM3TOP, MM5NAP
Limits: 10 Frag, 1 Duel
Flags and conditions: Crouching enabled, No Autoaim, and Enable ChaseCam
Any other special conditions: Best of 3


Fantasy Match-Up Mode: Team Deathmatch
Players: Rawk Hawk, Celebi, Fawful, Rose, Kombat Kitten vs Cutman (Nightmare Bot)
Map(s): MM1CUT, MM2FLA ,or MM2DW1
Limits: 40 Frag
Flags and conditions: Crouching enabled, No Autoaim, ChaseCam, Instag, sv_fastweapons 2, and Auto Respawn
Any other special conditions: None



NOTE: This topic's purpose is not to bring these people to fight for yar enjoyment! It is only here for people to LIST who they would wish to see to fight. Whether people actually bring fantasy games to reality are up to the combatants (listed here by the posters) if they really want to fight or not.

12
MM8BDM Discussion / Advertising
« on: May 15, 2011, 11:13:53 PM »
After a few thoughts and such, I want to know somethin'. I come around servers stealin' people to come to my server through my...

SHAMELESS PROMOTION AND ADVERTISING!!!

Whether I come to advertise for Bot Apocalypse or anythin' else or to promote a mode that's not well known, I want to know how people feels about it.
I could host servers and popularize new (as my server is rather popular), however there comes some ethics problem when I advertise. Again, I would like to hear yar opinions about this.

Do ya like it?
Do ya hate it?
Do ya not care?

Give a reason why ya think so. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelin's here, so please take no offense when ya read this topic.





On a brighter note, my 200th post! Yay :D!!!

13
MM8BDM Discussion / Your Favorite Players
« on: April 28, 2011, 10:13:27 PM »
Off the top of the bat, yes this is more or less a popularity contest.

Over the past few topics of ďWhoís the Best Player?Ē, all of them unintentionally transformed into a popularity contests. It derides the meaniní of the original post, so I though why not make one thatís actually made for the purpose of comparing popularity?

In this contest, people will be chosen not by skill, but by whether ya like the person or not. Ya may like the person for what ever reason. I just care that if ya like a certain person in the MM8BDM community or not.
The rules are simple and those who do not follow them will not have their vote counted towards the final scores.

1. You may pick up to 5 people to vote for (in no order); no more but can be less. If someone does order their picks, they all still get one point regardless.
2. You may not vote for yarself.
3. Don't say anyone that ya don't like.
4. Not really a rule, but I highly discourage naminí reasons why ya pick certain people over others. This prevents (more or less) potential flame wars, and people whininí against each other. Yes I know 5 people is not a lot of votes, but that is the point.
5. Not really a rule again, but please keep this civil and sane.


With that all said and done, Iíll cast my vote

Spoiler for Hiden:
LoneWolf
Muzaru
SickSadWorld
Rawk Hawk
King Yamato

Current Score List:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Kapus:9
Korby: 9
Bluebrawl: 8
SaviorSword: 6
Cutmanmike: 6
Muzaru: 5
Kenkoru: 5
Turbo: 4
Orange Juice: 4
Rtist: 4
Mr. X: 4
Kombat Kitten: 3
LoneWolf: 3
Celebi: 3
Obelisk: 3
Roc's Creation: 3
Ivory: 3
Lakister: 3
King Yamato: 3
Jafar: 3
Brotoad: 3
Mango: 3
Messatsu: 3
Spoiler for Hiden:
Rawk Hawk: 2
SmashTheEchidna: 2
Smunch: 2
Sean Nelson: 2
DTD: 2
Michael: : 2
Stonefunk: 2
-RanRan: 2
Magnet Dood: 2
Nu: 2
Blaze: 2
Zytix: 2
VGS2: 2
Rose: 2
Ninja/Samurai Sister: 2
RebootRaeg: 2
Bunny Must Die Yo: 2
SickSadWorld: 1
Stylin': 1
Galaxy: 1
Super Raveman: 1
Crystalking: 1
Yellow Devil: 1
ZeSwissRoll: 1
Tornado: 1
Orangemario: 1
PowerGloveNinja: 1
Nue Houjou: 1
Omnizoa: 1
Megaquint: 1
DimentedFlames: 1
Namo: 1
PressStart: 1
Brawlman: 1
Lego: 1
Megaman: 1
Epic Fail Guy: 1
Red: 1
Isaac940: 1
The Rush: 1
Alucard: 1
Flandre(Flanny): 1
Ashley: 1
Tails_Hatsune: 1

14
MM8BDM Discussion / Bot Apocalypse
« on: March 31, 2011, 06:12:39 PM »
Yesterday, I've discovered a rather interesting mode that people should look into. It's not an official mode with wad mods or any of those fancy stuff. What it is, is a TLMS done in a certain fashion. I call it Bot Apocalypse, but some people call it Humans vs Bots (this is totally not a Ghouls vs Humans ripoff and I have not played Ghouls vs Humans myself). Here's the setup for this mode. One downside is that a player must monitor the server all the time.

Step 1: Set TLMS with team selection on.

Step 2: When setting up teams, the first game must have an imbalanced team. Anywhere from 2v3 to 1v8 to 4v6 works, but I find that 1v(insert handful of player number) works best.

Step 3: This is where the server host must come in to do this part. When the game starts, the team with lesser amount of players cannot die or this step will be messed up. The play who controls the server adds in many many bots (around 16 bots usually). The bots will all go into the team with lesser amount of players the next game.

Step 4: The TLMS plays like usual till the win limit is hit. Yes, I know things will get laggy, but that's outta almost everyone's control.

Step 5: After the game is over, all bots must be removed for the next game and the process is repeated all over.

Now with the setup out of the way, here's a "tradition" that most of the Bot Apocalypse games do. Once there are around 6+ players in the server player, one player will be a "leader" in the bot team. If there is less than the said number of players, there usually does not have a bot leader for the game. That play style with the bot leader is optional, but remember that if too many human players are in the bot team or if the bots are evenly spread throughout the teams then it will defeat the purpose of Bot Apocalypse. With that all said and done, I'd like to hear what people would say on how they feel or think about this mode.

15
MM8BDM Discussion / Unofficial Weapon Tiers (Updated!)
« on: March 14, 2011, 05:28:42 AM »
First of all this is what the title says, this list is completely unofficial. This list is based off of opinions of others and my thoughts and opinion. Weapons will be placed in a tier list (in no particular order within same rank), and the tier is based off of usage of the weapons in DUELS. Exploits do not count forward toward the tiers. Also note that both duelist have the same range of ping and lag.

Any thoughts are appreciated, so the tier list can be more and more ďaccurateĒ.

S:
None!

A:

+Atomic Fire
+Ballade Cracker (S)
Top Spin
Silver Tomahawk
-Thunder Beam
-Magnet Missile (S-) (A+)
-Yamato Spear

B:
+Rolling Cutter
+Super Arm (C+) (B)
+Leaf Shield
+Pharaoh Shot (S-) (C+)
+Gravity Hold (S-) (C+)
+Blizzard Attack (C-)
Metal Blade
Hard Knuckle
Ring Boomerang (C+)
Dust Crusher (D+) (C+)
Skull Barrier (A)
Gyro Attack (A) (C+)
Charge Kick (B-)
Water Wave
Star Crash
Crystal Eye
Knight Crush (S)
Plant Barrier (C-)
Slash Claw
Noise Crush
Bass Buster
Triple Blade
-Ice Slasher (C+)
-Crash Bomb
-Quick Boomerang (C-)
-Shadow Blade
-Centaur Flash (C) (C+)
-Danger Wrap (C+)
-Thunder Bolt
-Junk Shield (S+)
-Scorch Wheel
-Mirror Buster

C:
+Fire Storm (B)
+Air Shooter
+Bubble Lead (C)
+Needle Cannon
+Drill Bomb (B) (B-)
+Power Stone (D) (B+) (B)
+Wild Coil (A-)
+Noise Crush (B)
Gemini Laser (C) (C-)
Rain Flush
Napalm Bomb
Flame Blast
Screw Crusher
Freeze Cracker
-Mega Buster (C)
-Hyper Bomb (C)
-Wind Storm (C+)

D:
Spark Shock
Search Snake
Sakugarne

E:
Dive Missile

F:
Flash Stopper

Remember that all weapons should not be in one tier to be ďperfectly balancedĒ. Every FPS has their weak weapons and strong weapons.

Explanations/reasoning for each weapon is ordered mostly by game.

MM1
Spoiler for Hiden:
Mega Buster: C-

This is your standard average infinite weapon. The only thing that this weapon lacks is power. Mega Buster is easily outdamaged by ALMOST all other weapons. It could climb up in usefulness if the projectile speed was slightly faster. Best usage for Mega Buster is to cover mid range if no other weapons in one's arsenal can take that job.

Rolling Cutter: B+

The Rolling Cutter got the nickname the ďTrolling cutterĒ for good reasons. This is a great weapon in short to short-mid range weapon or even in cramped rooms, as it rips through anything that stands in itís way. Though it has good power, its weakness is that it will leave the user ready for punishment if they miss.

Thunder Beam: A-

The reason I put Thunder Beam just ahead of Rolling Cutter is the range. The Thunder Beam lacks the ripping qualities of the Rolling Cutter, but Iíd say the range of this weapon could be the factor that separates Rolling Cutter. Another factor would be that the Thunder Beam is less punishable than Rolling Cutter, if it misses.

Ice Slasher: B-

Itís a better Mega Buster for sure, but the slow projectile is what hurts this weapon a lot. Just the power alone separates the Mega Buster and the Ice Slasher. Due to the slow nature of the projectiles, this weapon gets more tics into the target and racks up more damage than Metal Blade. Ice Slasher loses out to Metal Blade when it comes to range versatility.

Fire Storm: C+

This is a good weapon as a replacement for the Mega Buster. Fast projectile and a close up backup shield makes this a good all rounder weapon. Although the fire rate hampers this weapon little bit, but the advantages over the Mega Buster compensates with it. Only thing that Fire Storm lacks is power.

Hyper Bomb: C-

The Hyper Bomb is a trap weapon. It will be a really poor weapon to use against someone straight on, and trapping is not as easy as it sounds. Very power weapon, but the short comings really hamper the Hyper Bomb from being anywhere higher.

Super Arm: B+

Slow and clunky of a weapon, but with the right user in hand this is a really good weapon. Aiming someone in close combat can be tricky, but it can be done. Other than those good points, the Super Arm is very punishable with its extremely slow fire rate.

MM2
Spoiler for Hiden:
Metal Blade: B

Compared to the Fire Storm as a replacement buster weapon, it has different perks. Ammo use is the same, but the main difference is the Metal Blades have a bit more power and covers a bit more range than Fire Storm (in terms of effectiveness). Fire Storm most powerful at point blank combat when the shots and shield both connect, the Metal Blade does not need any of those. Thatís where the Metal gains a bit more freedom than the Fire Storm. This freedom of weapon role give Metal Blade a higher tier than Fire Storm.

Bubble Lead: C+

I would like to put this higher because of its power, but the ammo and fire rate really kills the weapon to be higher on the tier list. Being ground based is also not a good feature to be a high tier weapon. The only role this takes is an anti-low ground weapon.

Atomic Fire: A+

Slow, punishable, but powerful. What Atomic Fire shines is the 1-hit KO ability coupled with the massive hitbox that is has too. With careful aim, this weapon is absolutely deadly. Ammo justifies the power of the fully charged shot (but not for the uncharged shot but that doesnít matter much). Now if Atomic Fire had the ammo of Pharaoh Shot, then thatís when it will rise in tier.

Leaf Shield: B+

Leaf Shield is a great shield weapon. Though fire and cutter weapons go through it, lots of other high tier weapons are blocked by this (unless used in point blank range and why does Gyro Attack not count as a cutter weapon?). With that said, shield weapons can help running away or approaching an enemy, which can change the tide of battle.

Air Shooter: C+

If this had a range of Silver Tomahawk, then this would be at least A- to A+. Range is what kills Air Shooter badly. Decent damage of 25 damage per shot, but pulling a successful Air Shooter rush all the time is extremely hard to do. This has its potential, but limited by itís range. I will bump the tier for its power a little.

Crash Bomb: B-

With good aim, Crash Bomb is a good main weapon. This is not a Mega Buster replacement, so it this has some perks that Mega Buster replacers donít have. Only a few qualities of this weapon prevent it from being in a higher tier. Slow fire rate and high ammo consumption is the downer here, but Crash Bomb has a relatively high ammo recovery, which is quite unusual for a weapon. Overall it could have been better than a Mega Buster replacement, but it just wound up as good as one.

Time Stopper: --- (S)

Time Stopper is a unique weapon that has nothing that can rival this weapon. It has many uses in combat either defense or offense. This is where the uniqueness of this weapon gives it the high tier it deserves. Now removed since Time Stopper is gone from duels.

Quick Boomerang: B-

After the buff, Quick Boomerang has became one of the strongest close range combat weapons, but this weapon is still rivaled by many other close combat weapons. Sure there are differences against other close combat weapons, but it all balances in the end.

MM3
Spoiler for Hiden:
Proto Buster: --- (B)

Although the projectile does not shoot as fast as the Mega buster, the power of uncharged shots and the ability to fire 50 damage shots are well worth the tradeoff. The biggest selling point of the Proto Buster is the Proto Shield. The shield is a great weapon(?) to use to either run away or to approach an enemy. One problem that causes the Proto Shield to not reach into higher ranks is the inability to block from key weapons like Magnet Missile, splash weapons, and AoE weapons. Now none of it matters since Proto Buster upgrade does not exist in duels anymore! :P

Magnet Missile: A-

A 24 damage per shot weapon that is made for long range combat, can be deadly in close quarters too, with good aim of course. Ammo and fire rate are the only things that prevents Magnet Missile from being a god weapon. Itís risky to pull off short ranged magnets well, but itís a risk that can be worth it. Now since the Magnet was nerfed by 1 damage, and then removing the hitstun finally adds up to its fall from the S tier.

Hard Knuckle: B

Think of this as a faster, but weaker Atomic Fire. 80 Damage is nothing to laugh at, and once you hit someone with it they will be on the run. Chasing them down with good chasing weapons will finish the job then and there. Iíd say that the fire rate would be the only thing that prevents the Hard Knuckles to be anywhere higher. Now with ammo nerf, there's not much space to miss shots, however with the power it still has, only a little gets the job done.

Top Spin: A

Itís like a knife to another FPS, but there are differences. In this game, bullets are a lot dodgeable and Top Spin is a 1-hit KO. This is why Top spin is in such a high tier. Only reason why this is not any higher is that it is limited to close combat to point blank range limit.

Shadow Blade: B-

Compared to the Quick Boomerang, the damage that this gives is now similar the Quick Boomerang. Aiming up or down is not as much as a pain compared to Quick Boomerang, and with a ripping effect makes Shadow Blade a nice weapon. The biggest downside though is its short range which is where Quick Boomerang does better compared to Shadow Blade.

Spark Shock: D

Spark Shock is used to stun an enemy, so that the user could switch out to another weapon to kill them. Sounds alright on paper, but the stun time, fire rate, weak damage, and ammo really isnít convincing. Even if you did use to stun them they can still retaliate, which is some points deducted for Spark Shock.

Search Snake: D

Search Snake is rather slow, and the fact that it is a ground hugging weapon does not fare with well too much. With a little bit of timing, Search Snakes can be avoided without too much trouble.

Gemini Laser: C

So itís not as good the Mega Buster more often than not, but Gemini Laser still is an okay weapon to use. Decent ammo and decent fire rate with the lasers bouncing around makes this tricky to deal with in close quarters, but thatís all its good for. Without the right conditions, Gemini Laser's usefulness drops drastically. If this weapon competed against Napalm Bomb or Flame Blast to create a diversion, Gemini Laser would be overshadowed easily.

Needle Cannon: C+

Needle Cannon, compared to the Bass Buster has their differences. First of all, Needle Cannon is a tad bit stronger than Bass Buster, but it has a lesser spread, shoots slower, and runs on ammo. With only 1 advantage over Bass Buster, that does not convince me to put this closer to the Bass Buster in tier.

MM4
Spoiler for Hiden:
Rain Flush: C

A decent Area of Effect weapon and a good finisher. Ammo consumption is somewhat balanced off for the fact that recharging this weapon is not a hard task. As a weapon to fight straight on is a bad choice to use, but it can aid users to run away or discourage enemies from rushing in. The time between a shot is fired and when the rain pours requires timing to connect shots properly.

Flash Stopper: F

You only have 4 shotsÖ You can blind your enemies partly (Unless their computer has a problem)Ö and it does next to no damageÖ Compared to other defensive weapons like Skull Barrier, Leaf Shield, or Proto Buster, this weapon is nothing and itís squashed by the other weapons completely the metagame.

Pharaoh Shot: B+

Pharaoh Shot is still a strong weapon to use. It'll never see its V1B glory days anymore, but the fact of being able to kill in 2 decent shots is a big plus for its part. No more hug stun still prevents good advancement to engage others, but the power is still here to support the weapon.

Ring Boomerang: B

Compared to the Quick Boomerang with more powerand ripping. Range coverage between both of the weapons are specifically
designed for their own purpose. Ring Boomerang is designed for mid range while Quick Boomerangs is more for close range. Ring Boomerang offers a little bit of versatilely by being able to cover up close range when needed.

Dust Crusher: B

This is stronger than a Mega Buster and causes shrapnel to fly in 4 directions, but the slow fire rate does drag the usefulness a little. Certainly not a weapon to laugh at, and now with a fast projectile can really beat up your enemy quickly.

Skull Barrier: B
Anything Leaf Shield can do, Skull Barrier can do better. Major difference is how ammo is used for both shields. In Skull Barrier vs Leaf Shield's case, the Skull Barrier has a shorter coming. That still does not overshadow the no loophole that Skull Barrier offers that Leaf Shield does not. Another downer for Skull Barrier is that it is not as versatile as Leaf Shield can be, since Leaf Shield can be deactivated anytime, while Skull Barrier must run out before any other moves can be done.

Dive Missile: E

Other than having the potential of picking off enemies from a long range with its superior homing system (vs Magnet Missiles), this has nothing else to offer. Even when you would fight long range, Magnet Missile would still outperform Dive Missile. High cost for low power will not sit right for any user caught in a close ranged situation with this weapon in hand or even for its intended use too. At least this weapon DOES have killing potential.

Drill Bomb: C+

Drill Bomb is a great all round weapon. Itís slow, so it will not be good for a Mega Buster replacement. Drill Bombís explosive range is the main selling point here. Even if the user does not connect all of his hits, the Drill Bomb can do massive damage to the target. Best used as a finisher though. When using it as a main weapon, its slow speed will haunt it. Now with the ammo nerf, there is next to no room for mistakes.

MM5
Spoiler for Hiden:
Power Stone: C+

Up and down and up and down and reach for the sky! Power stone has been everywhere in terms of power (no pun intended), and that certainly affects its rank too. The spiral projectile scripts of the Power Stone is definitely back this time, but the 1 hit kill is gone! That's all the bad news to hear about it, but still the power of the Power Stone is still the main point of the weapon. Unable to aim at different elevations , awkward projectile pattern, and slow fire rate will not allow Power Stone to be in higher ranks.

Charge Kick: B

What really shines for the Charge Kick is not the melee aspect or its damage. It is that Charge Kick is the best weapon to get away or to engagements. Unless your opponent uses it too, thereís no way to catch up for a Charge Kick escapee. Even not using it as a method of escape, this still packs a punch... I mean kick.

Water Wave: B

Wave Man is said to not be a good close combat robot. But his weapon is quite a good close combat weapon. Sure this is hard to jump over no matter what range you are, but the Water Wave would be predicable once it reaches to very far ranges. The hitstun of this weapon is amazing, and usually is better than Bubble Lead, since chaining hits is easier.

Star Crash: B

Compared to Charge Kick, the trump that Star Crash has over this is range that this covers. Charge Kick is not as good as a combat weapon, but it still works as one. Star Crush is purely designed to kill. Sure Star Crash's thrown shield is a decent weapon, but it is not designed be thrown, so in short the ability to throw the Star Crash is a minor plus.

Gravity Hold: B+

Gravity Hold is pretty much the death of anyone that's in the sky. But when your not using it for it's designed purpose, it is ok for an Area of Effect Weapon. Unlike Rain Flush, the time between the damage is done and when its fired gives Gravity Hold an edge over Rain Flush in DPS. Not as fast as Centaur Flash, but the power for short term usage makes up for Gravity Hold. Ammo consumption is another advantage that Centaur Flash still has over Gravity Hold.

Gyro Attack: B

Gyro Attackís split makes this weapon unpredictable to avoid. Now with the buff that turns Gyro Attack now restores some of its former glory, but still balanced. Overall a good weapon to use from close range to mid range. Attacking higher/lower elevation is still one of its old weak points.

Crystal Eye: B

Crystal Eye is power weapon and it could be just as useful as Gyro Attack. Only problem that Crystal Eye suffers is the fire rate. In enclosed rooms or corners, this is a good weapon to use. Also it is a good anti-camp weapon in the same conditions as well.

Napalm Bomb: C

Napalm Bomb is a decent escaping weapon to use, but the smart opponent should know that running into bombs is not good for their health. The range of this weapon just wastes the potential of the weaponís power. Average fire rate doesnít do anything to its tier. If Napalm Bomb did have a good range, then this would jumped into higher tiers without a second thought.

MM6
Spoiler for Hiden:
Knight Crush: B

Knight Crush is a just faster and longer ranged of the Rolling Cutter. With good aim and prediction, this weapon could either hit the target from the user or when it comes back, just like any other boomerangs. Sure the nerf did some damage to this weapon, but it is still usable weapon. Just use this over Rolling Cutter if the differences that Knight Crush offers fits your needs.

Centaur Flash: B-

For an area of effect weapon, the Centaur Flash is rather weak. Sure it could deflect lots of projectiles, but the energy cost is certainly not worth it. Any user of Centaur Flash may even use up to 1 W Tank just kill their enemy. Itís unique ability and killing potential though saves this from being anywhere lower, but the fact that this IS an area affect weapon boosts its points.

Wind Storm: C-

Wind Storm is poor manís version of the old Gravity Hold. Not any more! Wind Storm is NOTHING but Gravity Hold's partner in crime. Weak, uses 2 bars of ammo, and fires fast gives almost nothing to offer, but to slightly delay your enemy from pursuing you. This is all that Wind Storm can offer without combing this with Gravity Hold.

Flame Blast: C

Flame Blast is a decent escaping weapon to use, but the smart opponent should know that running into fire is not good for their health. Flame Blast does a decent damage too, but the main tradeoffs are that the Flame Blast uses up more ammo for faster and longer lasting effects. In short, Flame Blast sits in the same boat as Napalm Bomb.

Blizzard Attack: B+

The buff gives Blizzard Attack a new life to be used. The projectile speed can now cover from mid range to long range nicely with decent power to boot if the user can connect the shots. Using it for close range is usable, but it gets outclasses by many other weapons in close combat.

Plant Barrier: B

Plant Barrier WAS an E tank replacement. With the E tank removed, this is the closest thing you can get to an E Tank. As we all know E Tanks are good for your health, so why not use the "nerfed" E Tank that can be recharged anytime? I really would like a better reason for the Plant Barrier, but suffice it to say E Tank moved over for the Plant Barrier to take over give its tier spot that it deserves.

Silver Tomahawk: A

This and Thunder Beam sits in roughly the same spot in terms of fire rate and punishment if the user misses. Only thing that separates the two is the Silver Tomahawk is a projectile that is way faster than the Thunder Beam. Range of effectiveness between the two is roughly the same, so I would say just the projectile speed alone separates those 2 alone.

Yamato Spear: A-

Rapid firing ripping weapon makes this a power weapon to use anytime. A small spread gives this weapon an edge over many other rapid fire weapons. Ammo consumption here effectively limits the Yamato Spear from being too powerful of a weapon.

MM7
Spoiler for Hiden:
Danger Wrap: B-

Danger Wrap is a Sliver Tomahawk wannabe compared with each other's main use. However when compared, Sliver Tomahawk laughs at Danger Wrap's effort of being a clone. What separates the two weapon is Danger Wrap's mines. These mines can severely hamper the movement of your enemy, much like Spider Mines in Starcraft. However, that's the only thing that gets Danger Wrap going against Sliver Tomahawk. With the new change to Danger Wrap, any missed mines can fall on the enemy if they are out of short-mid range, allowing the weapon another few chances to rack up hits to the target with decent power to boot.

Thunder Bolt: B-

Dust Crusher like weapons are quite common, and here's another. Dust Crusher's strongest feature is its power, while the Freeze Cracker's is its fire rate and amount of shrapnel. Thunder Bolt does not have the power of Dust Crusher, but is a lot stronger than Freeze Cracker. Thunder Bolt is faster than Dust Crusher, but not as Freeze Cracker. When shrapnel is compared, Thunder Bolt easily beats out the rest, however it loses out on how difficult it is to hit anything due to its pattern. In all among the "Dust Crusher" weapons, this sits between Dust Crusher and Freeze Cracker. The power for the most part gives Thunder Bolt its rating.

Junk Shield: C+
Now with the new Junk Shield around to play with, this is far less broken than the armor granting version. The new function is what the label says, its a mix of Star Crash and Leaf Shield. Incredible stunlock this weapon has to offer has massive lethal potential, however the strange hitbox makes it very hard to connect the junk blocks and if the enemy gets too close for comfort or in a hallway, then the shield won't hit them at all. The offensive capability is offseted by the way the junk block moves, and the defensive capability has the same problem. The only difference usage is using Junk Shield correctly defensively, the target should not be too close up on the user. Another problem with Junk Shield is that it does not offer full protection unlike Leaf Shield does. Leaf Shield will always block projectiles (unless point blank) while Junk Shield may let a few shots slip by. The head area is vulnerable to add another fault to the weapon.

Freeze Cracker: C

A faster and with more shrapnel than Dust Crusher? This already sounds like a good weapon on paper, BUT! The sheer LACK of power is the biggest downer here. Faster weapon does mean the weapon will run out of ammo faster too. Miss too many shots, and its over for you. Best used to reach someone afar, but try not to get caught mid to close range with this.

Slash Claw: B

If Top Spin was the knife for most FPS's, then Slash Claw can take that role more effectively. Now this is not a weak weapon by no means, but the inconsistent amount of damage that this gives does hurts its ratings a good bit. Still this is an excellent weapon to switch into for close combat.

Wild Coil: C+

Wild Coil is a souped up version of Gemini Laser. Two bouncing coils per shot and the ability to charge it up for more damage adds more to the punch that Wild Coil can give. Even with the ability to kill with one shoot, Wild Coil is still very awkward to aim. With the new projectile pattern for Wild Coil, the trajectory is almost the equivalent of the side shots of Thunder Beam.

Noise Crush: C+

Another weapon to take glory away from Gemini Laser, but does not do so! Uncharged Noise Crush lasts shorter than Gemini Laser, and is weaker. Gemini Laser can take that job without problem and completely turn Noise Crush into an obsolete weapon. Good thing for Noise Crush is it has a trick up its sleeve. Shoot one and catch it with your body will allow you to release a 60 damage shot. 60 damage isn't much unlike how it used to do 80 damage last version. Using uncharged shots is not worth the Gemini Laser replacement and certainly now does not have power it has definitely doesn't look good for the weapon. Versatility without much power won't carry itself out for long.

Scorch Wheel: B-

Scorch Wheel can be compared to Charge Kick in their role in their uses. Both may be used as offensive weapons, but Scorch Wheel is more often than not weaker than Charge Kick, but has better range though. For running away with Scorch Wheel versus Charge Kick, I would need to run some tests before I can say anything about it. So that should even up the two weapons, right? No. What allows Charge Kick to trump over Scorch Wheel is its ammo consumption. Scorch Wheel just can not keep up with Charge Kick's ammo use and can easily be outpaced in the heat of battle.

Others
Spoiler for Hiden:
Mirror Buster: B-
In a battle, if a player notices that the user is in the Mirror Buster colors, they should know to not attack. Mirror Buster can be a good weapon to use to approach enemies, but also suffers the same blocking problems that the Proto Shield has too. Mirror Buster is a great weapon to switch in. Unlike other shield weapons, this can be used quite nicely for offense. With the ammo nerf, there will be a lot less wait for Mirror Buster to run out, this hurts the weapon a lot. I would give this a C+, but the power of the weapon can not be ignored.

Sakugarne: D

As fun as it is to use this all the time, Sakugarne does not serve a lot of purpose other than a utility and a trapping weapon. It is a good trapping weapon, but the conditions it needs does not justify this weapon not a good choice. Very punishable if the trap fails.

Screw Crusher: C

Now this weapon is where my opinion is rather off from the true usefulness that it really is. But I feel it is around as good as a Mega Buster. I could never use the Screw Crusher right, and people tend to use it well. The limit of its bounces is just tricky to manage while fighting someone.

Ballade Cracker: A+

A weapon with decent fire rate, ammo, and explosive properties can get the job done really well. Not punishable at all, but the ammo is not so forgiving. Miss too many times, and itís over for you. Unlike the old version where missing too many times was not a problem, this time around weaker power means more accuracy is needed to make the most use out of this.

Bass Buster: B

Personally, I prefer this buster over Proto Buster more often than not. Since Proto Buster is out of the way, there's no good reason to run around with the Mega Buster any more. My first ranking of Bass Buster was really generous, and I thought of lowering it, but now there's no reason too. Fast attacks, good range coverage, and unlimited ammo are great factors toward this weapon.

Non-standard Weapons
Spoiler for Hiden:
Triple Blade: B

Now first of all, this is the first weapon to make it on this list that is not an official realesed weapon. Congratulations! Anyways, the Triple Blade is more of a close range weapon, and suffers rather badly outside of middle range combat. Its not a great ripping weapon like Rolling Cutter, but its still quite a good one at least. Fast fire rate and high ammo consumption is the biggest downer for this weapon to get anywhere higher.

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