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Author Topic: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune  (Read 2151 times)

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February 01, 2016, 11:15:21 PM
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Offline Lego

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[Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« on: February 01, 2016, 11:15:21 PM »
This suggestion should speak for itself.
When scrolling through this game's large set of weapons, even if you don't use bound slots, there isn't a ton of cohesion between what a weapon is theoretically supposed to be used for and how it would work in practice. This causes some weird placements of weapons such as Mega Ball going in the close-range weapons like Slash Claw and Thunder Claw when it seems more of a ranged option similar to Gemini Laser, or Sakugarne being placed into the Area-of-Effect slot with things like Gravity Hold when it acts more like a melee + mobility tool akin to Tengu Blade and Charge Kick.

This order of weapon placement and reasoning is somewhat ambiguous and should probably be addressed.

Currently, the slot layouts are as follows:

1 - "Busters" [8 Weapons]
This section contains the weapons that replace the Mega Buster from inventory items.
It contains the following weapons:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Mega Buster
Proto Buster
Bass Buster
Super Adaptor
Duo Fist
Laser Buster
Arrow Buster
Treble Boost

2 - "Ranged" [16 weapons]
The weapons that are supposed to be strong at longer ranges.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Blizzard Attack
Spark Shock
Fire Storm
Dust Crusher
Ice Wave
Search Snake
Thunder Beam
Gyro Attack
Gemini Laser
Noise Crush
Homing Sniper
Dive Missile
Thunder Bolt
Freeze Cracker
Silver Tomahawk
Magnet Missile

3 - "Rapid" [9 weapons]
Generally, these weapons are good at striking targets quickly, not offering much time between rounds.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Quick Boomerang
Ice Slasher
Water Wave
Screw Crusher
Metal Blade
Yamato Spear
Needle Cannon
Wave Burner
Water Balloon

4 - "Close" [21 weapons]
These weapons are supposedly strong up close to an opponent.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Mega Ball
Bubble Lead
Wind Storm
Crystal Eye
Power Stone
Magic Card
Ring Boomerang
Rolling Cutter
Charge Kick
Flame Blast
Tornado Hold
Wild Coil
Shadow Blade
Knight Crush
Oil Slider
Top Spin
Air Shooter
Flame Sword
Slash Claw
Tengu Blade
Thunder Claw

5 - "Power" [13 weapons]
Likely positions where it is due to Doom's Rocket Launcher, this category contains weapons that pack a general punch, or explode violently.
Spoiler for Hiden:
Pharaoh Shot
Super Arm
Atomic Fire
Hard Knuckle
Crash Bomb
Napalm Bomb
Hyper Bomb
Danger Wrap
Flash Bomb
Remote Mine
Spread Drill
Drill Bomb
Ballade Cracker

6 - "Area-Of-Effect" and "Special" [10 weapons]
This section contains the weapons that either impact a large area, or are "too weird to categorize."
Spoiler for Hiden:
Flash Stopper
Centaur Flash
Gravity Hold
Sakugarne
Rain Flush
Astro Crush
Lightning Bolt
Time Slow
Time Stopper
Copy Vision

7 - "Shield" [8 weapons]
Spoiler for Hiden:
Skull Barrier
Plant Barrier
Junk Shield
Ice Wall
Mirror Buster
Scorch Wheel
Star Crash
Leaf Shield

As of v4c, our total of weapons is 85. As developers and content creators for this game, it is advisable to make handling such an arsenal as painless as possible for players. One step in doing so would be to standardize how the default slot system is formatted.


This topic is for feedback related to a revised system for slots.
Which do you feel would be the best solution? A complete rework of the slot system? Arranging certain weapons so that they make more sense in the slot and scroll order? Give some feedback and help to improve one of the more overlooked details of the game.

February 02, 2016, 12:03:04 AM
Reply #1

Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 12:03:04 AM »
For some players, it may actually be easier to group them by game. I personally would have a much easier time finding what I'm looking for with that kind of arrangement.

Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone, but it's food for thought.

February 02, 2016, 12:04:22 AM
Reply #2

Offline Knux

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 12:04:22 AM »
As it stands, Crystal Eye is pretty much a charged Pharaoh Shot that can split even if it misses. If it's not reworked for v5 in some manner to make it more unique, I strongly suggest moving it to slot 5 (Power) due to said reasons. Hell, the crystal bits can be considered an explosion.

February 02, 2016, 01:49:14 AM
Reply #3

Offline JaxOf7

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 01:49:14 AM »
I personally think the categories are perfect, just got some weapons categorized wrong.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Notes:
"Ranged" can also apply to "around corners/terrain" as opposed to a flat distance. This is primarily what gemini laser is doing here.

Fire Storm. Ranged->Close
Up close fire hug, no real ranged capability to speak of.

Mega Ball. Close->Ranged
Bouncey projectile that takes prep, this is a ranged weapon.

Bubble Lead. Close->Power
35 damage, low ammo. Not so much close range since it can hit people below ledges like search snake does.

Wind Storm. Close->Ranged
Can go over ledges like search snake, ranged since it's easy to hit with due to the explosions that emenate from it as it goes.

Crystal Eye. Close->Power
Has ranged capability since it makes bits that bounce everywhere. In power category since hitting with just the large projectile is a valid strategy and the range capability is situational. Also large cooldown, like other power weapons.

Wild Coil. Close->Ranged
Bounces around and can hit around corners like gemini laser. Can also be charged up, which is typically done at a range. Has a melee capability, but it is not very reliable.

Spread Drill. Power->Ranged
Extremely similar to blizzard attack, which is ranged. Spread of projectiles typically good for range.

Spark Shock Ranged->AoE/Special
Inflicts a status condition like Time Slow and Flash Stopper. No real ranged capability to speak of.

Sakugarne. AoE/Special->Shield
Sakugarne is set up and attached to user like a shield, like Scorch Wheel. Also provides personal buff like scorch wheel (jumping).

Copy Vision. AoE/Special->Shield
Set up in a spot like ice wall is. Overall defensive weapon since it can't be moved once placed.

February 02, 2016, 03:11:52 AM
Reply #4

Offline Korby

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 03:11:52 AM »
Quote from: "Gumballtoid"
For some players, it may actually be easier to group them by game. I personally would have a much easier time finding what I'm looking for with that kind of arrangement.

Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone, but it's food for thought.

Unfortunately, this is not a viable method as there are only 10 available slots (1-0) and we are covering 12 games in total.

February 02, 2016, 04:02:15 AM
Reply #5

Offline fortegigasgospel

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 04:02:15 AM »
As I said on skype. a mid-range category. Get some of those boomeranging weapons out of close range since a lot have good range. Maybe even move weapons such as Wild Coil, Wind Storm, and Bubble Lead into it as well.

February 02, 2016, 04:50:30 AM
Reply #6

Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 04:50:30 AM »
Quote from: "Korby"
Unfortunately, this is not a viable method as there are only 10 available slots (1-0) and we are covering 12 games in total.
Ah, I misunderstood. I was more referring to the weapon scroll order. I'm not sure what can and can't be changed, though.

February 02, 2016, 06:14:19 AM
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Offline Bikdark

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 06:14:19 AM »
Excellent idea to facilitate some slot discussion. While I like the idea, the groups themselves don't /quite/ line up with how I'd like to see weapon implemented in maps. In short, I'd like one of every weapon slot to be available in a map. No more, no less. This would mean creating somewhat strict groups that don't deviate a whole lot within themselves, equating to maybe 10. This would alleviate 95% of balance issues, would make weapon selection for mappers a much more intuitive process, and eliminate a lot of unnecessary fluff that players must go through in order to select a specific weapon. Currently, slots do not function as intended, and this is an excellent first step in improving the quality of life of players that like to juggle a lot of weapons at once.

February 02, 2016, 09:10:50 AM
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Offline Rozark

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Re: [Suggestion] Weapon Slot Retune
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 09:10:50 AM »
Quote from: "Bikdark"
This would mean creating somewhat strict groups that don't deviate a whole lot within themselves, equating to maybe 10. This would alleviate 95% of balance issues, would make weapon selection for mappers a much more intuitive process, and eliminate a lot of unnecessary fluff that players must go through in order to select a specific weapon.

Can confirm that I would enjoy this greatly as I've been asking for a general weapon set guide for a good while and, besides the currently flawed slots, don't really have a ground to base weapon sets off of.

However, besides agreeing on that, I currently have no ideas to contribute on how to organize slots. My apologies.

I mean there's the whole "Dupe your weapons" and "Avoid weapon clones" thing, but that isn't really the topic at hand here.