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Author Topic: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking  (Read 2426 times)

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September 30, 2016, 08:36:39 AM
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Offline Xhatahx

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Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« on: September 30, 2016, 08:36:39 AM »
What's in the spoiler tags is only to understand the first few posts. There wasn't a big enough sample size to prove jack shit. Please do not read this.
Spoiler for Hiden:
I decided to look at the "Least Favourite Weapons" section in the player profiles that have been made since v5a was released, and these are the ones with more than 1 objection:

Oil Slider: 4 objections
I actually like this weapon, and I have no idea why it's hated. If you hate this weapon, please explain.
Laser Trident: 4 objections
Short explanation: It's awkward and not very damaging.
Click here for the old topic.
Gyro Attack: 3 objections
It's overpowered, doing a 2HKO if you split it at the right time. Decrease the damage for the split gyros or maybe remake it to make it steerable like Remote Mine and Black Hole Bomb.
Time Stopper: 3 objections
Short explanation: It has pretty much no use other than trolling.
Click here for the old topic.
Charge Kick: 3 objections
As an attack, it's pretty awkward because you can't retreat while using it. As a mobility tool, you might as well strafe-run. I suggest adding Wind Storm fling to it and doubling the speed the kick sends you forth.
Flash Stopper: 2 objections
Like Time Stopper above, it's a troll weapon, but it's also useless next to Centaur Flash. There's pretty much nothing else to say. I think it should be completely remade.

I'll make a WAD with revamped versions of these weapons some time later.
If I said something bullshit, feel free to correct me.
Even when updates come, the game still has flaws. But that's a part of MM8BDM; we go back and fix it. This is an unofficial topic for discussing what's wrong with the weapons in v5a. This topic will work like this one, as in, you can suggest other weapons you have beef with.

September 30, 2016, 12:27:53 PM
Reply #1

Offline Korby

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 12:27:53 PM »
Gyro Attack was on my least favorite weapons because I think it's overpowered. A well timed split will deal double damage and makes the weapon a 2HKO.
I'd argue Charge Kick is fine. Think of its mobility more as a tool to make it harder to hit you while you're dancing around your opponent, or something to completely reset your momentum in a different direction.
On top of that, it's a 3HKO.

I don't think that just because four [or less] people said [x] was their least favorite weapon it means it needs a full-on rework, though.
I can agree Time Stopper needs one, as can just about anyone.

September 30, 2016, 02:27:27 PM
Reply #2

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 02:27:27 PM »
That gives me an idea: a Time Stopper design contest! Kinda like the recent CTF map contest, but with designing Time Stoppers instead of maps.
There are just too many ideas for a new Stopper available.

September 30, 2016, 02:43:24 PM
Reply #3

Offline CutmanMike

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 02:43:24 PM »
I would rather just get community to be vocal about what current weapons they feel are too weak/strong for now.

September 30, 2016, 03:42:59 PM
Reply #4

Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 03:42:59 PM »
The weapon-tweaking topic, pre-v5, was a fantastic means to that end. I certainly have a number of things to say.

September 30, 2016, 03:56:00 PM
Reply #5

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 03:56:00 PM »
Wait, there was an old weapon issue topic?
*digs into the forums*
Here.
If anyone has plans to reuse that topic for v5b, you can lock this one.
Or maybe I'm looking too much into what Gumballtoid said. Today's a derp day for me.

September 30, 2016, 07:36:29 PM
Reply #6

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 07:36:29 PM »
EDIT: nevermind

September 30, 2016, 09:19:01 PM
Reply #7

Offline Sonicfam1102

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 09:19:01 PM »
I still don't see the huge need of changing weapons just because 4-6 people didn't like them. Everyone has their preference in weapons but that doesn't mean weapons that are disliked need reworks entirely.

October 02, 2016, 09:42:58 PM
Reply #8

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016, 09:42:58 PM »
From what I've seen of, regarding the post from Korby where he mentions almost everyone agrees Time Stopper needs to be changed, and this post from Lego coming up with suggestions of how to fix it, and the post somewhere above that post by Rozark saying that Time Stopper should no longer be a "troll aesthetic toy", and the fact that it has no flaw to exploit and therefore just unfair, and the fact that it grinds matches to a screeching halt, I can safely assume the weapon that needs to be changed the most is Time Stopper. The fact that it hasn't been changed for 6 years is horrifiying.

If you say that a weapon that's lasted for 6 years must be a good weapon, you're wrong. MM2BUB didn't change for 6 years. That's a bit of a flaw with this community: sometimes, but only rarely, we overlook issues for a long ass time. It's time to face the brokenness.

October 03, 2016, 10:02:19 AM
Reply #9

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking (Time Stopper)
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 10:02:19 AM »
BUMP for a revelation I had and seriously we need to talk about this
I feel like there are, in the end, three factors for whether a weapon is good or not: how useful/powerful it is, how easy it is to counter/exploit flaws, and how much it changes the gameplay.
If you look at Metal Blade, you can see that it's pretty powerful, has a flaw(you can't swarm an area and guarantee a hit like with Mega Buster), and freshens up the gameplay while keeping it not to different.
If you look at Super Arm, it's really powerful, it has two flaws(bad firing rate, can't move while picking up a rock), and as with Metal Blade it doesn't stir up the match that much; it just slightly changes the way the players think.
But with Time Stopper, it has no damage output and no defensive use because nobody wants to use it defensively but rather as a troll tool, it has no weakness to exploit, and it completely changes the gameplay for a few annoying seconds. It's pretty much the worst weapon possible.

And as with the old weapons thread, I'm thinking of keeping a tally on what weapons we should talk about next. My vote for it will be...
Spoiler for Vote, keep for later:
Flash Stopper. If you apply the above criterion to it, you can see that it has little to no offensive, defensive, or evasive power(if they really want to kill you, they can just run at where they think you're going; they probably remember the layout of the stage and hear you), it has no flaw to exploit, and it changes the gameplay of the players annoyingly alot(AAAGH I CANT SEE). Just like Time Stopper, it's almost tailor made as a troll tool.
But that talk's for later(or never)

October 03, 2016, 10:41:07 AM
Reply #10

Offline IamaMedalHunter

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking (Time Stopper)
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 10:41:07 AM »
It's true Flash Stopper has really poor damage output and low RoF, and doesn't allow to attack with another weapon while the foe is blinded (since the blind effect disappears when you can switch weapon). In fact, it's not made to be powerful at all. Not even defensively.
Except that if you happen to want to shake off a persuer, you just have to show them the light. It's a 4-uses tool made for evasion, a potential life saver when you need to get away and grab some health without being accurately shot at.

October 03, 2016, 12:24:50 PM
Reply #11

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking (Time Stopper)
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 12:24:50 PM »
The current topic of this tread is Time Stopper. It's in the thread name. The Flash Stopper bit was as a "vote" and my reason for voting for it.
Do you have a suggestion, observation, or response to an earlier comment about Time Stopper?

October 03, 2016, 05:49:34 PM
Reply #12

Offline Lego

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking (Time Stopper)
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016, 05:49:34 PM »
Alright. Quick thing.
This is bugs and suggestions where a person will put down what they think should be implemented into the game.
You brought up Flash Stopper, among other things.
Additionally, your previous post immediately talks about and described in detail what Flash Stopper does.

Then you shut down someone else who is trying to contribute to the discussion you created.


I think it's fine you want to create a topic similar to the v5 weapon tuning thread here, but I'm not fond of your shutting down discussion on Flash Stopper when you're the one who brought up Flash Stopper to begin with.

October 03, 2016, 07:21:35 PM
Reply #13

Offline Xhatahx

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Re: Weapons in need of replacing/reworking (Time Stopper)
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 07:21:35 PM »
I'm sorry, Lego and IamaMedalHunter.