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Author Topic: Ghouls vs Humans NES  (Read 51958 times)

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November 02, 2012, 05:15:45 PM
Reply #15

Offline Korby

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2012, 05:15:45 PM »
Quote from: "Hilman170499"
Not that I'm complaining, but I'm badly scared by the mod. I did not experience them, but people in the server warned me about some scary stuff. Also, do classes have weaknesses? I'd like to know some examples please. I won't be playing OR seeing the game though. If you would like to ask why I went to the server in the first place, because there are players. It seemed a tiny bit legit at first, but the game turned the tables on me when someone played Yurei and someone else told me said class will scare you.

You could do what I did when I first started playing GvH. Play on the ghouls side! You don't have to deal with fear if you're on their team!

As for weaknesses, I don't recall many, aside from Choke being absolutely torn apart by rapid fire weaponry

November 02, 2012, 06:02:15 PM
Reply #16

Offline Hinatediz

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2012, 06:02:15 PM »
Nice De-make...

i want to suggest this:

Spoiler for Hiden:

want on the next upgrade now.

November 02, 2012, 07:23:45 PM
Reply #17

Offline Laggy Blazko

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2012, 07:23:45 PM »
Permission to make a quick sjas HP nerf patch?

November 02, 2012, 07:26:18 PM
Reply #18

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2012, 07:26:18 PM »
Ah, the Sjas subject is because, you know, marine isn't hitscan. Perhaps a fastprojectile at Speed 480 would do the job?

November 02, 2012, 07:35:32 PM
Reply #19

Offline Laggy Blazko

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2012, 07:35:32 PM »
But it's hard to hit something with fast projectiles. :/

November 02, 2012, 07:49:28 PM
Reply #20

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2012, 07:49:28 PM »
The faster the projectile, the less you have to aim ahead... And there's also the pseudo-hitscan, where a projectile spawns itself inheriting all speeds from the former after the first tic but before the second.

November 02, 2012, 08:00:42 PM
Reply #21

Offline Laggy Blazko

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2012, 08:00:42 PM »
Ok, ok , projectiles are hard to hit with when your ping is huge, and using hitscan is easier because unlagged helps with it.
EDIT: Sjas would still be OP anyway.

November 02, 2012, 09:17:03 PM
Reply #22

Offline xColdxFusionx

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2012, 09:17:03 PM »
Warning: Wall Of Text ahead.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Humans
For a faction based around ranged attacks, the Humans aren't that good at their job. You need an entire team of Humans to take on one Ghoul. By contrast, a single Ghoul can mop up an entire team of Humans fairly quickly.

Megaman
...Well, he's Megaman. There's not much you can change about the vanilla class. Giving him x1.1 Damage might help him be relevant.

Marine
The Marine has a variety of weapons at his disposal, but the problem is that it's hard to access them because the Shotgun and Machine Gun, the two relevant starters, aren't exactly the best guns. ...And the Shotgun is pretty much melee only, which defeats the purpose of having it on the ranged team. We need a reason to use the pistols, and tighten the spread on the shotgun just a little.

Hunter
Pointless weapon, Rocket Launcher that doesn't do much damage, Shotgun that's only effective at “You Got Dead” distance, Railgun that also doesn't do quite enough damage. Projectile speed on everything should be raised just a touch, to boot.

Cyborg
Big, slow tank on a team where health is just a number that makes you feel better about your chances of survival without actually helping. And his jetpack helps only marginally. Fun.
Being able to recharge your ammo does help a bit in a game where ammo does not actually exist, but Cyborg needs some sort of advantage that actually helps. Perhaps increase the DPS on his plasma cannon?
Question: Didn't the highest level plasma balls deal splash damage in the official mod?

Ghostbuster
The Proton Cannon is surprisingly hard to hit with, and ghost traps are a bit difficult to use. Perhaps make the hitbox on the Proton Cannon slightly bigger, and AoE for the Ghost Traps should be raised slightly.
Note: Give us the option to switch the buttons on the ghost traps. Please. This is going to drive me nuts.

Engineer
We need a reason to use the blade traps. Why use them when there's infinitely better traps at our disposal and the other weapons are more useful?

Arthur
Okay, he has three different weapons with three different ranges. Now give us a reason to use anything other than the Torch of Infinite Area Denial.

Ghouls
I know the Ghouls are supposed to be melee. That doesn't mean they all have to deal 100+ damage with their melee attacks. That's just cheap.

Sjas
This is what happens when you give Toadman no wind-up, flight, and haste. Seriously. Nerf the damage and/or the speed so that the damn thing isn't a hard-to-hit flying murderfest.

Jitterskull
Personally, I think he's fine as-is. If anything, he needs a way to deal with the bottomless pits that litter the Monstropolis landscape.

Choke
Fast, durable, and a pain in the ass to deal with at any range. I appreciate the blood ball being difficult to hit with; give the Cyborg a reason to exist and bring down the damage on it so he can survive it (if you haven't already.)

Creeper
This thing is an instant murder machine. Make it easier to get him off of your tail if you spot him so he doesn't just rush people down blindly.

Frostbite
Slight nerf on the bite might help, but I'm not sure what to do with him He's at least not as bad as the others in most cases.

Yurei
Take Creeper and give it a complete and utter disregard for any sort of balance. That's Yurei. A short delay on Traumatize would make it a bit more skill-based, and Flame Vortex strikes me as a bit powerful.

Cacodemon
In stark contrast to the Ghouls' lightning fast speed and horrific attack power, Cacodemon moves at a ploddingly slow pace and can't hit the broadside of a slow-moving bus. Give us a reason to use the bastard without making us feel like we've been shafted by the random class generator.

I know it's based on vanilla, but a better effort could have been made to clean things up in the balance department.
EDIT: A few more rounds prove that most of these changes should be very slight. Sjas and Cacodemon are the top priority, but the others should at least be looked at.

November 02, 2012, 10:34:18 PM
Reply #23

Offline Korby

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2012, 10:34:18 PM »
Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"
Spoiler for Hiden:
Humans
For a faction based around ranged attacks, the Humans aren't that good at their job. You need an entire team of Humans to take on one Ghoul. By contrast, a single Ghoul can mop up an entire team of Humans fairly quickly.

Megaman
...Well, he's Megaman. There's not much you can change about the vanilla class. Giving him x1.1 Damage might help him be relevant.

Marine
The Marine has a variety of weapons at his disposal, but the problem is that it's hard to access them because the Shotgun and Machine Gun, the two relevant starters, aren't exactly the best guns. ...And the Shotgun is pretty much melee only, which defeats the purpose of having it on the ranged team. We need a reason to use the pistols, and tighten the spread on the shotgun just a little.

Hunter
Pointless weapon, Rocket Launcher that doesn't do much damage, Shotgun that's only effective at “You Got Dead” distance, Railgun that also doesn't do quite enough damage. Projectile speed on everything should be raised just a touch, to boot.
That "pointless weapon" you mentioned doesn't slow the Hunter down while he's drawing it, and its magic blinds ghouls. On the faction that has to run the most often, it makes sense to have a bow that doesn't slow you down while you're shooting at the monsters chasing you.

Cyborg
Big, slow tank on a team where health is just a number that makes you feel better about your chances of survival without actually helping. And his jetpack helps only marginally. Fun.
Being able to recharge your ammo does help a bit in a game where ammo does not actually exist, but Cyborg needs some sort of advantage that actually helps. Perhaps increase the DPS on his plasma cannon?
Question: Didn't the highest level plasma balls deal splash damage in the official mod?
Cyborg is arguably the hardest hitting human, and the flight nullifies 75%(made up number) of ghouls.

Ghostbuster
The Proton Cannon is surprisingly hard to hit with, and ghost traps are a bit difficult to use. Perhaps make the hitbox on the Proton Cannon slightly bigger, and AoE for the Ghost Traps should be raised slightly.
Note: Give us the option to switch the buttons on the ghost traps. Please. This is going to drive me nuts.
Use the traps as traps. For example, place them under you while you're charging your ammo so that you don't die while you're helpless. Also, put them near teleporters or in a buster wall for ultimate protection.

Engineer
We need a reason to use the blade traps. Why use them when there's infinitely better traps at our disposal and the other weapons are more useful?
Because Engineer only has one kind of trap. Currently, there's a bug with the altfire that makes it so they're not placed correctly, but each placed buzz saw does 15 damage. If you have a whole bunch of those lying everywhere, and you will, it will easily stop predators from chasing you down, or entering your camp without being hurt.

Arthur
Okay, he has three different weapons with three different ranges. Now give us a reason to use anything other than the Torch of Infinite Area Denial.
Range and damage.

Ghouls
I know the Ghouls are supposed to be melee. That doesn't mean they all have to deal 100+ damage with their melee attacks. That's just cheap.
That's exactly what it means.

Sjas
This is what happens when you give Toadman no wind-up, flight, and haste. Seriously. Nerf the damage and/or the speed so that the damn thing isn't a hard-to-hit flying murderfest.

Jitterskull
Personally, I think he's fine as-is. If anything, he needs a way to deal with the bottomless pits that litter the Monstropolis landscape.

Choke
Fast, durable, and a pain in the ass to deal with at any range. I appreciate the blood ball being difficult to hit with; give the Cyborg a reason to exist and bring down the damage on it so he can survive it (if you haven't already.)
Blood Ball is Choke's only reliable way to kill instantly, and it's already annoyingly hard to aim. Nerfing its damage would be a very poor choice. His "durability" is a lie, as he only has 65 health. He only seems durable because of the invincibility frames. Trust me, if you played Choke more often, you'd be mighty afraid of Ghostbuster, or really anyone with a rapid fire weapon, as it does not trigger invincibility frames, and it will absolutely tear you apart.

Creeper
This thing is an instant murder machine. Make it easier to get him off of your tail if you spot him so he doesn't just rush people down blindly.
You're much faster than him. He can only catch up if you shoot him. He also only has 70 health. Just try to spot him, and get ready to jump a lot.

Frostbite
Slight nerf on the bite might help, but I'm not sure what to do with him. He's at least not as bad as the others in most cases.
The bite leaves him open for attack, as he can't really move afterwards. This is a great time to shoot him. Try not to be in a closed in area when this guy is in the game.

Yurei
Take Creeper and give it a complete and utter disregard for any sort of balance. That's Yurei. A short delay on Traumatize would make it a bit more skill-based, and Flame Vortex strikes me as a bit powerful.

Cacodemon
In stark contrast to the Ghouls' lightning fast speed and horrific attack power, Cacodemon moves at a ploddingly slow pace and can't hit the broadside of a slow-moving bus. Give us a reason to use the bastard without making us feel like we've been shafted by the random class generator.
Cacodemon has 250 health. I'm pretty sure he'll get buffed, but try to be stealthy, and remember that altfire recoils you, so try and use that to jet yourself around for now.

November 02, 2012, 10:43:46 PM
Reply #24

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 10:43:46 PM »
On subject of healths, if yours is above 100 you won't be able to tell how much you have lost or have left.

November 02, 2012, 10:46:29 PM
Reply #25

Offline Balrog

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 10:46:29 PM »
Quote from: "Megaman"
Fisting Medal is given by the greandes when used by the fist.
*grenades

This is because CheckForFisting() only checks if the Class of the weapon you have out is Fist. If you don't like it, report it on the Zandronum issue tracker.

Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
On subject of healths, if yours is above 100 you won't be able to tell how much you have lost or have left.
Megaman needs to lrn2SBARINFO right over here. Incidentally, the vanilla game has the same problem with Terminator mode, but that can't be helped thanks to another Zandronum issue - one that I made a ticket for.

November 02, 2012, 11:11:22 PM
Reply #26

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 11:11:22 PM »
Also, noticed few things:
1. Cacodemon opens his mouth while just moving.
2. Cacodemon's firecustomprojectile seems to be in spawnhorizontal 8 (like Megabuster 'n stuff.
3. Engineer's Nailgun COULD use some reloading, as to prevent him from spamming it for too long.
4. Sometimes, the Buzzsaw doesn't work. So far, only seen it malfunction while trying to set some mines in the Ghouls Forest map. The saw fell and was gone.
5. Is Caco's colors supposed to be green?

As for the "fisting" thing, make the Death.Fist of them give an item to the player that triggers immediately executing the ACS that awards the medal. That's just a guess

November 02, 2012, 11:18:00 PM
Reply #27

Offline Korby

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 11:18:00 PM »
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
4. Sometimes, the Buzzsaw doesn't work. So far, only seen it malfunction while trying to set some mines in the Ghouls Forest map. The saw fell and was gone.
5. Is Caco's colors supposed to be green?

4. This is a known bug, I think.
5. Mess with your colors in player setup. You'll find that this is a common theme between many of the classes.

November 03, 2012, 12:09:54 AM
Reply #28

Offline tsukiyomaru0

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2012, 12:09:54 AM »
Quote from: "Korby"
5. Mess with your colors in player setup. You'll find that this is a common theme between many of the classes.
:shock: Totally did not expect!

Also, Ghostbuster got Double Beam.

November 03, 2012, 02:59:12 AM
Reply #29

Offline Hilman170499

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Re: Ghouls vs Humans NES
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2012, 02:59:12 AM »
Quote from: "Hilman170499"
I won't be playing OR seeing the game though.

I changed my mind about that. I MAY play some time in the future. Only because there are many players in the GVH server. MAY do it, not will.