Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:17 am Posts: 4762 Location: ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ
Medals: 5
Time for Ivory to enter the battlefield.
Spoiler:
Star Dood wrote:
I hate how Donut Is bashing all of my favorite Pokemon I don't know about it
Punctuation is fairly important. I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean.
I don't know why you'd argue about Starmie when a starfish doesn't have much going for it in the first place. Besides, nearly all Pokemon just evolve into bigger stuff with minor differences. There are more of these in Unova too, you know.
Well you know, if they kinda have to remain similar enough to the base forms so you can figure out they are apart of the same evolution line. Sure some pokemon gain more radical difference, but for the most part, a sharp mind can figure out a family line purely off of visuals alone.
Vanillite? Bigger ice cream cone. Klink? ...Just more gears. (Yes, I know, already mentioned) Trubbish? ALL THE TRASH GOT BIGGER AND SPILLED OUT OF THE BAG
I'll agree, but really, Gen 1 wasn't even that good. Nostalgia(no not the user) has always been the dominate driving force to people liking Gen 1. Despite growing up with it too, I'm an objective person who can analyze the first generation and safely say it was a mess. Seriously, the reason why I dislike a large portion of these newer Pokemon is that they make stuff way too complex. So what if Grimer, Voltorb, and Magnemite evolve into "unoriginal" ideas? Every generation is guilty of it as mentioned earlier. Seel? It's pretty much a sea lion. Does that stop Dewgons line from being one of my favorites? Not really.
To be honest, most new Pokemon suck. We don't need them. I would be joyful if Gen 4 never existed, along with most of Gen 5. 4 was just made of absolute suck. The new evolutions they added to "improve" upon older Pokemon looked like someone chugged 4 cases of beers and decided to make fatass and disgusting versions of them for the hell of it. Magmar was one of the best base Fire Types in Gen 1, but they just had to improve upon him. Magneton was an incredibly versatile, useful Pokemon, but they just had to give him something else. Nosepass and Yanma were unique in that they were technical Pokemon that required an advanced trainer to use them, but suddenly they inject steriods into them just for them to have evolutions. Same goes for the others- they gave them evolutions just for the sake of them having evolutions. The rest of Gen. 4 seems too cutesy- there's no real sinister or interesting or just plain freaky Pokemon in Gen 4, they're all just cute. Gen 1 gave us a balance of the cute (Pikachu, virtually all of the base starters, Vulpix, Eevee) while also satisfying the creepy side (Gastly and his evos, Beedrill, Grimer, Weezing, Parasect).
Honestly, generation 1 was by far the most unbalanced generation. Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers. Here are just a few things to think about. 1) Almost all the grass types in gen 1 are Grass/Poison. With Exeggcute's line and Tengla being the only non poisons. 2) Even with Gen 5, half of the poison pokemon are in Gen 1. 3) There was only one dragon line and there was only one dragon type move (Dragon Rage, which always does 40 damage) 4) There was only one ghost line and it wasn't even programmed correctly to be super effective against psychic. 5) Only 5 ice lines. 3 of which were coupled with water 6) Bug was severely underpowered.
Now compare the above with Gen 5.
1) Very nice assortment of grass types. 2) Underwhelming. 3) Probably the best assortment of dragon types I've seen introduced yet. 4) Same with the above. 5) Somewhat underwhelming, but it was nice to finally get a larger bulk of pure ice types. 6) YES. About time they ditched the notion that bug types should be weaker than other pokemon and finally provided an assortment of useful bugs.
So what am I getting at? Generation 5, whether you like them or not, had the most well thought out set of pokemon the series have seen since Gen 2. Some of the designs were lackluster, but it gave us type combinations that were never seen before. In terms of gameplay balance, if you and your opponent used only unova pokemon, it's actually far more balanced than any other generation.
Of course, when it comes down to it, you should be using your favorites, regardless of what anyone else says. That also doesn't mean being ignorant is a good thing. :ugeek:
Gen 5 was blech. I see way too many similarities- or copyings- of Gen 1, it's not even funny. Take two examples.
Generation 5 was for more all intents and purposes, a silent reboot of pokemon. It paid homage to Generation 1 as that was the first series of pokemon. I can safely tell you that Gen 5 did a way better job than Gen 1 ever did. It avoided most of the pitfalls that Gen 1 fell into. Am I saying Gen 5 is perfect? No. Am I saying Gen 1 is statistically the worst generation? Yes I am.
1. Timburr and his evolutions are virtually carbon copies of the Machop line. They evolve on the exact same levels, have the same abilities- hell, they even carry the whole "three letter throughout the line" thing; "Mac" and "Urr". Same goes for quite a few others as well (Woobat, Roggenrola, etc.) 2. The Legendary trio is Ice, Fire, and Electric. Hmm, I wonder what that could be alluding to- oh, yes, Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres? I'm fairly certain there'll be a number connection in the names, as well.
1) So let me get this straight... we can only have one fighting line that consists of 3 humanoid fighting members? Also, you do realize that Gligar is also a bat, right? If you are going to go screaming unoriginality, least be consistent.
2) Gen 2 had Fire, Electric and Water, hmm...
Not to mention they shot themselves in the foot by only including Unova Pokemon only- which, frankly, kind of suck.
Not really. Unova was an attempt at bringing back the enjoyment of first playing Gen 1. Back when all the pokemon were brand new and we had to go for what we came across and liked. Just remember, opinions are not onions. You don't have to cry over them. But there is a difference between having an opinion and ignoring statistical facts.
To be honest, I think all we're going to do is throw around our opinions and never end this until one of the mods stops it even though they're against me too so I suppose I'll keep my mouth shut after this.
As for Gen. 5, I hope that Black and White 2 will be better than the first, because I just didn't find it fun. Same with Gen. 4 (though Platnium didn't help). The reason I dislike 4 & 5 is because- they're just not fun to me. I'm a Game Boy Advance guy, I grew up with Sapphire and Leafgreen. I appreciate Pokemon when it wasn't blown out of proportion with Tier Lists and Dream World and so many new Pokemon and argh. I would be fine with 386; I wouldn't mind only 251; having only 151 would suit me just fine. I appreciate simplicity in some games, and Pokemon is definitely one. I don't play for all the bells and whistles, I don't play for strategies and tiers, I play to have fun. That's why I dislike 4 & 5 so much- to me, they're the symbol of a once simple and enjoyable RPG turning into a complex, confusing game that is difficult for me to understand. I'm not an old gamer- I'm 14- but it's becoming harder and harder to discern how to play this darn thing correctly.
Games up to Third Gen: Catch Pokemon, level grind, teach good moves, win. Games after Third Gen: Catch Pokemon, follow tier lists, teach specific movesets, get right nature and ability, find counters, blaaaaargh
Now, I do like a few things about the newer games. The GTS is neat (even though many of the people on there are retarded and ask for Lvl. 5 Legendaries). It's easier to find Pokemon you want or are unavailable. You can catch any Pokemon you want after grabbing the National Dex, giving you the opportunity to construct a dream team or grab all of your favorites. The Pokedex is constantly improved upon, giving you access to more info on the digital creatures. New locations are enhanced by superior technology, giving you stunning bridges, awesome spiral staircases, and worlds that move with your location, not you walking around a preprogrammed map. But it's becoming too crazy for me to keep up with- battling has become a complicated ordeal, with Walls and Tiers and so many crazy strategies that I don't know how to follow. It's very unfair to put Pokemon in these tiers since EVERY Pokemon has a chance to KO EVERY Pokemon. A 50 Lvl. Tentacruel will have a better chance of killing a Lvl. 5 Pidgey, of course, but they still have a chance. Why has everything been blown out of proportion?
What happened to the Pokemon I used to love?
Also if I'm supposed to reply to your points then uh ok
Korby: Ironically, I don't like any of the Pokemon you just listed for the cool Gen. 4 ones. I don't even know what Giratina is- some sort of evil centipede?
Yes, I know what you're saying with those copied 'mons, but- well, this'll sound hypocritical, but they're the basics of new Pokemon Generations. You need to have the starting route normal small animal and bird. Also, Weedle was pretty darn unique if you ask me- it could evolve into two different bugs depending on what time it was. Besides, Bidoof and Starly did the same thing, so why didn't you point them out?
Ivory: I am aware there were quite a few problems with Gen 1. Though I don't really see what you were talking about with the Bug types- there were a few bad ones (Parasect, arguably Pinsir for not actually using Bug moves), but Scyther and the starting two were- oh, you mean the moveset. Never mind then.
Are those problems that were fixed? Yes. Do those problems affect the overall enjoyment? Not in the slightest.
Just because having so many Poison types and so few others is prevalent doesn't mean that the game suffers because of it.Admittably, it gives you fewer options to pick your favorite types, but they are still available.
Also, the reason why they made the Dragon type so hard to get is because they could bulldoze through anything that wasn't Dragon. Which didn't come along much, either.
Last edited by Magnet Dood on Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:17 am Posts: 4762 Location: ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ
Medals: 5
You are blind if you think tiers and crap didn't exist before. They have always existed. Just look, you will quickly find that people were competitive even with Gen1. Slashing Persians, Mewtwos that have to be countered with other Mewtwos due to being too overpowered. This isn't anything new, the only thing that changed was the internet made it more obvious that people played this way.
Pokemon really hasn't changed that much in terms of the way people competitively play it, I can tell you that straight up.
Yes, but was competitive Pokemon big during Red & Blue? From what I can tell, probably not. Besides, those were a few people, not the entire fanbase. Now, with all of the new tournament regulations, everybody follows them.
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:17 am Posts: 4762 Location: ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ ζ(,ヮ,-ζ
Medals: 5
Yes, not as big, but still sizeable. You just didn't hear about it nearly as much because the internet wasn't the juggernaut we knew it today.
Ultimately you should be using the pokemon you like and not giving a damn what anyone else says. If you like Starmie, use it.
Despite everything I said, I'm one of the more anti-competitive pokemon players around. I don't let myself be a slave to the game mechanics and ideology that you have to have the best for that pokemon to be viable. Heck my HG re-run I'm using Skiploom. SKIPLOOM. Jumpluff is better than Skiploom, but I like Skiploom's design more. There are way better grass types than Hoppips line, but I use it anyways because I like them. Do they have 31's in all IV's? No. Are they competitive viable pokemon? Not really. Am I happy playing the game with my Skiploom? You betcha.
The people who have played pokemon hasn't changed. You still have the casual players who just want to enjoy the game, and the competitive players who want to be the best of the best. It's been consistent in every generation. That's what I'm getting at. I'm only arguing this because you are blind to the fact you can still enjoy the games without being induced in the mechanics.
It never seems like it because people keep yelling at me that those Pokemon are bad and I should feel bad.
I know of the tier lists for Red/Blue, Gold/Silver, and Ruby/Sapphire- but they're never as complex as 4's or 5's. They only whine about what Pokemon stink and praise a select few to the heavens. With so many getting into the whole competitive battle jargon and telling you you're outdated and stupid, it gets rather frustrating. No one here has done it [size=]yet[/size], but it's happened before. I assumed a rather large majority is like this. Sorry for being cynical- it's a rather acute thing of mine.
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:41 pm Posts: 1362 Location: Panicking
Medals: 2
How are you going to make a "simple" tier list for five hundred pokemon and however many moves/abilities there are now? There are two ways to enjoy each and every game- the "casual" route (playing the story at your own pace) and the "hardcore" route (self-imposed challenges, hardest mode, competitive gaming). Pokemon is no different, and some facets of the game cater to one side or the other. You can't please all the fans.
That, and pokemon designs are matters of personal opinion.
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:36 pm Posts: 1574 Location: Somewhere, I don't know...
Medals: 1
Woah I caused a semi-flame war here didn't I? Oh yeah by the way, not sure if you even noticed Star Dood, but natures and abilities WERE in Gen 3. I never actually care about what natures used for team or abilities; I just play it for the hell of it. And you don't actually have to care about that shit when playing against other players.
About that unfun thing with Gen 4 and 5, it may just be the fact you just dislike the Pokemon.
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