Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch V5B - 22/05/17!

[GameAndWatcher]

Spooky

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IS THAT FRICKIN' BOND MAN MAKING A CAMEO?!

[Brash Buster]

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IS THAT FRICKIN' BOND MAN MAKING A CAMEO?!

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Where do you see him? I can't make him out.

[GameAndWatcher]

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Where do you see him? I can't make him out.

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Far left, bottom of the pile.

[Shep]

Spookdozer

https://twitter.com/CutmanMike/status/793167396676796420

[NES Boy]

I've got a question: are Gamma's sprites getting a redesign so he has his canonical appearance, and not the one he has in the Nintendo Power poster?

[CutmanMike]

Unless someone wants to volunteer, sadly no.

[fortegigasgospel]

I've got a question: are Gamma's sprites getting a redesign so he has his canonical appearance, and not the one he has in the Nintendo Power poster?

That also isn't really canonical, it was a design based off Giant Robot/Gigantor

[Brash Buster]

That also isn't really canonical, it was a design based off Giant Robot/Gigantor

Also, it has a much shorter build than Gamma does right now. If that was used, Gamma would either have to be made shorter (which would make him marginally easier), or he would have to be made wider (which would probably make the battle a royal pain comparable to the Chapter 9 boss)

[DarkClawXD]

There will be an easy mode and a normal mode. Normal mode is the standard way to play the game.

I'd shudder to think how a "Hard Mode" would work...

[DarkAura]

I'd like to see a duplicate set of bots for the "Hard Mode" campaign that have all their stats at 4 (the highest it can go) and their names altered slightly to differ them from their "normal" cousins, maybe like MEGAMAN-H or something akin to that.

I'll admit that I tried the current campaign on my own with a mod that does that and MM3DW1 was INFURIATING to win.

[DarkClawXD]

I think I can see how bosses would work base on difficulty level.

Let's take Trio/Evil Robot for an example...

Maybe on Easy, he might die in only 4 hits rather than 8, and bosses might do less damage to you compared to normal, and perhaps their attacks are slower to come out/easily more telegraphed?

But if there was a Hard mode, maybe Evil Robot would take 12 hits instead of 8? And bosses move faster and do more damage? And attacks are harder to dodge or go in different patterns?

Basically it's dealing with modifiers and whatnot...Just a thought.

[Megaman]

Sorry, but...  After trying it out and reading the opening post, I think I'd like to make some critiques myself.  Just a few issues I have.  I'll put it under a spoiler since I feel it'll get pretty lengthy.

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== Proto Buster
+Can no longer hold shield out when charging a shot.

Why?  That doesn't seem like a necessary change.  The Proto Shield has always been a little finicky personally, and its protection is very limited.  You've always had to aim the shield just right to block a shot, so protection isn't guaranteed.  Especially if all one has to do to get past it is just angle their shots right.

== Atomic Fire
+Full charge projectile speed: 24 flat -> 8-32 windup

This makes the weapon feel broken, and not in a good way.  I don't mean overpowered, I mean literally broken.  It's probably a good idea on paper, but it doesn't feel good in execution.  I personally don't like it.  Atomic Fire is a lot harder to hit with now, and it's not a welcome change considering it didn't behave like this in MM2.

== Leaf Shield
+Complete rework.
+Put up a temporary shield that blocks one oncoming hit*
+Lasts a short period
+If the shield is hit, release a flurry of leaves in the target direction.
* damage may still be sustained from the hit, depending on the source.

== Skull Barrier
+Complete rework.
+Now fully blocks the damage from one hit.
+Has a cooldown of two seconds after breaking.
+During these two seconds, you are immune to stage hazards that would typically kill you instantaneously.*
* Presses of any kind not included.

New Skull Barrier sounds exactly the same as New Leaf Shield, only one protects you from stage hazards while the other doesn't.  I don't think Leaf Shield needed the change as fire weapons and Mega Buster shots could already pass through them.  Metal Blade could too, I think.  I feel the two shield changes are too similar.  I don't have a problem with Skull Barrier as much as I do with Leaf Shield.

== Centaur Flash
+Complete rework.
+When used, now renders you invisible for a short period.
+Do not use near birds.

Why does it render you invisible?  You're not Centaur Man.  The invisibility seems to be a function exclusive to Centaur Man as the Centaur Flash never does this in MM6, so why would it do it here?  I don't see a reason to change it, as it's an AOE move that's very weak far away, but gets stronger the closer you get to the source.  If you really wanted to change it, maybe increase the cooldown a little bit, but the invisibility change?  I find it a little unnecessary.

== Mirror Buster
+Damage windows for shot values changed:
*  Mid shot: 11 -> 12 damage.
*  Strong shot: 25 -> 40 damage.

Not a big Mirror Buster user myself, so I don't really know if this is a major change or not.  I feel this would limit the usefulness of Mirror Buster, but I'd actually have to test it in a real battle since I get myself killed using it against bots anyway.

At any rate, that's just my input on the whole thing.  I have to say, I'm not exactly too fond of those specific changes, but I am happy that v5 is out.

[Xhatahx (in exile)]

I agree with most of what you say, Megaman. I also think Skull Barrier should've stayed the same. But I don't agree with the Centaur Flash tidbit.

You could say similar things about Gravity Hold (Gravity Hold doesn't increase gravity in MM5) and Flash Stopper (Flash Stopper stopped time in MM4). Problem is, the screen clearing attacks in the original games were a bit bland, especially Centaur Flash, which didn't stop time, or remove pickups, or give you invisibility frames, or decrease gravity, or do anything other than making the entire screen white, removing some ammo, and damaging enemies.

The pre-v5 Centaur Flash did have the ability to reflect projectiles, but it was hard to use except under specific circumstances, and even then it isn't easy to do, and the projectile reflection ability wasn't easily conveyed, causing me, and probably others, to not know that that feature existed just from playing the game. I personally welcomed the invisibility change, and felt it added some new strategic possibilities.

[chuggaafan1]

old skull barrier had to be reworked almost every patch, it needed a revamp

leaf shield and centaur flash both bogged down the code by requiring a "noflash" script on every new weapon that could go through leaf shield, and, by extension, centaur flash. old leaf shield was unfun to fight against because maybe ten weapons could fight it.

atomic fire has a laundry list of problems with it, making the move speed different really doesn't change much.

[CutmanMike]

A lot of the weapon changes were based on user feedback. Though these weren't my personal feelings on these weapons this is what was implied by the community and made us take action (if anyone on the dev team wants to correct me here feel free).

Proto Buster: Too good in duel and having projectiles constantly blocked before getting nailed by a very powerful charge shot was frustrating to play against. The window of opportunity to hit your opponent from the front was very small and was especially too good in Duel.

Atomic Fire: I heard lots of different things about this and I'm not sure if the nerfs we applied even hit the right feedback. The main one I kept hearing was being OHKO'd across the map randomly is not fun. Maybe it's REALLY good in duels/LMS? Who knows. I can't find a thread about it now.

Leaf Shield: The whole x weapons can deal with y shields is something many hate (even though this is a mega man fangame) because it adds an extra layer of complexity to a mostly simple game where you run around, pick up weapons and shoot people. We were also using a horrible inflexible feature (Blast artifact from Hexen) to make it work which was something every modder had to think about when implementing projectiles. Leaf Shield has been overdue for a rework and we're happy with the current mechanics of it, though I haven't heard much feedback on the damage values etc.

Skull Barrier: We're trying to get rid of all the "activate this then run away" weapons because they don't add anything to the game and is not very compelling. Weapons that have that feature as an option are fine, but dedicating a weapon to this strategy is not very fun. We have some tweaks planned for Skull Barrier so it isn't as annoying to fight against in LMS but mechanically it will probably stay the same.

Centaur Flash: I don't think many people hated this weapon, but it's implementation was just not very interesting. It was also using the Blast Artifact stuff Leaf Shield was, and we wanted to get rid of it.

We're still waiting for 3.0 to really start digging into what weapons need to be changed for V5B so keep that feedback coming!