LlamaHombre's One-Off Maps (Current: guest MM2QUI updates)

[LlamaHombre]

Hey, LlamaHombre here. I made the CMCP04 (Echelon and Flow) map present in Sweatpack and Catalyst Series 1, I'm as of writing this post still in judging for the TTT map competition for the map I made with my bestie Thunderono, and in general I'm continuing to make maps that I grow increasingly more fond of and proud of as time moves on. So as per tradition, I'm looking back on pretty much every old map I've ever made with an iron pick and breaking them into my new standards! yayyy

Thankfully a good number of my core maps are ones that I hold in relatively-to-high regard, with MM2DW2 being a staple in both casual and comp play since its v5a overhaul (no changes needed there) and MM9TOR being my baby, my favorite map I've ever made (that I would still probably poke at just a little haha). Bringing my old maps up to my modern day practices and whatnot is something I enjoy doing a lot and I figured this time I'd share what I've got just for public discussion and to try and get things in a hunky-dory space. I have just one map today but I'll probably update with some other ones later on down the line, or put anything here that I don't think quite fits into REALPack (which you should also check out, since the maps in it are great!).

This is all just a whole bunch of words saying "I really wanted to make bubbleman better without designing a brand new underwater map jesus christ so here's what I've got" lol

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I did design this as a direct replacement, but do think it is a dramatic change from the existing map both visually and structurally so I'm releasing it first and foremost as its own thing. If it makes it into core, great! If not then I still don't regret doing this, I'm a very big fan of how it turned out. Hopefully you all are too! Let me know.

Credit to Molly for some of the extra tiles used here, I think they look great and match the existing NES tiles about as well as anyone would hope. Credit to TrojanHorse711 for the swing version of Bubble Man's theme used in the map, I think it fits the "fresh coat of paint" feel I had while working on this map.

Download: https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=lh-testingmapupdates-v2.pk3

[LlamaHombre]

Updating this topic with some some changes-in-testing for MM10DW3 - Wily Station Ascent. This is a map I actually sometimes see in servers, but one that has a bit of grime on it. I blame a lot of that on not 100% knowing what I wanted this map to be when I started out, and going along with it even after having a fuller picture in mind.

Main changes:
- General terrain update: map height is overall shorter, jumps still create valuable routes but not as mandatory to get around. Moving around should be way more fun now
- Two new areas on the north and southeast sides to make traversal easier and less chokepointy
- Cut down on number of cross-map sightlines to better promote fights and cqc
- Water layer slightly reworked, traded a couple of open holes in the main path for glass chutes along the side
- Teleporter leads directly to BHB instead of in the water section

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For my own convenience, I'm bundling this with MM2BUB2 above for a couple reasons.
1) These are all tests and not finalized (I will return to MM2BUB2 when I have time / will), and having a .pk3 name more indicative of that helps.
2) I'd like to eventually get around to other experiments (MM10COM comes to mind) and having all that in one spot also helps.

Download: https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=lh-testingmapupdates-v2.pk3

[LlamaHombre]

Updating this topic with a guest star appearance from MM2QUI - Quick Man.
I'm mostly going to be stepping out of the way here and letting my REALPack partner Thunder explain what's going on, but I'm here mostly to explain why it's here. In short, he made this and wanted to get some testing + feedback going into v6b and later versions of core, but didn't want to add yet another map wad to servers. It makes sense to me, and since my trust in him as a mapper and a person is unflappable, it's going in here. This is probably going to be a one-time thing, so don't expect random updates to other non-LlamaHombre maps in the future.
Next version of this pack will include updates to MM10DW3, MM2BUB2 (aiming to eventually remove the "2"), and maybe more, but I haven't had time for any of that yet. So for now, enjoy the bonus! I sure do.

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Download: https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=lh-testingmapupdates-v2.pk3

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MM2BUB2
MM10DW3
MM2QUI

[Thunderono]

Thanks to Llama for letting me piggyback here.  I'm probably not going to make a habit out of this; I had wanted to update MM2QUI anyway, but I wanted to get the changes out ahead of time.  Seeing how MM2BUB2 and now MM10DW3 have been handled, though, I figured people would want to host it, so to ease the burden on hosts I asked Llama if I could slip my map in here.  I don't have any other maps in core that I plan to do this for.

Similar disclaimer to Llama's that, while I'm not a member of the core team, I do intend for these changes to go into core for v6b.  Whether or not they actually do is out of my hands, but the feedback I've received from some members of the core team so far has been positive.

I wanted to take a moment to go over where my head was at while making these changes.  MM2QUI has a strong historical context in 8BDM, and while it definitely had a lot of problems, I wanted to keep its overall identity intact while addressing the pain points.  I'll be going over what I've heard and observed, my updates, and how the two relate.

To start, here's the raw changelog for anyone who just wants to know the difference.

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Layout
-Mid closed off into its own room, adding null walls to block shots across the majority of the map
-Replaced southern quick beam tunnels with new raised sections containing sight lines to mid, sides and the corners
-Reworked corners to flow better to new raised sections
-Split the northern quick beam tunnel, using the same alternating beam scheme the rest of the map adheres to
-Added two new entrances to the northern section using the quick beam tunnels
-Lowered four pillars in northern section to allow for platforming to and from the new entrances as well as the bridge
-Lowered the time between quick beam fires from 7 seconds to 6

Items
-Removed Ring Boomerang, Wild Coil, and Hornet Chaser
-Added Crash Bomb and Dust Crusher
-Moved Chill Spike to northern quick beam tunnels, with Crash bomb taking its old spot
-Moved Water Wave to new raised sections, with Dust Crusher taking its spot in the southern corners
-Moved Charge Kick to Wild Coil's old spot
-Moved Top Spin to southeast and southwest quick beam tunnels
-Moved Leaf Shield to new northern entrances
-Moved Item-1 spawns to southern quick beam tunnels
-Updated weapon layout to be symmetrical
-Reduced number of large health pickups from 7 to 3
-Removed M-Tank

Visuals
-Slanted walls around the borders of the map to give a more domelike appearance
-Added new textures based on the hothead segment of the original stage
-Updated texture used for pillars across the map

Alright, so let's get to the nitty gritty.  For anyone who's unaware, my name is on MM2QUI because I used a concept SmashBro came up with to drastically modify the existing MM2QUI.  At the time, my focus was primarily on making the quick beams consistent, as previously they fired entirely randomly.  While the map was modified by other users after the fact in ways that I feel were to its detriment, I think it's existed in an "it's fine" state for a while.  That being said, it's clear most people aren't fans of the version in core.

The two complaints I heard the most were:
-The map is too flat.
-The lack of null walls lets floorhuggers and flying classes terrorize matches.

Additionally, from my experience on the map, I identified the following problems:
-The southwest corners are pointless, offering no real advantage and having the worst flow on the map.
-The southern half of the map is frustratingly segmented.
-The northern half of the map can be difficult to siege thanks to predictable entry points and long sight lines.
-The item layout here is just a disaster


Now, some people might take a look at the second complaint from that first list and say "well, core shouldn't be trying to cater to CBM!"  I actually agree with this take, but in this instance, the pain CBM players are experiencing comes from a purely cosmetic choice.  While core should not be made first and foremost for CBM, I think it's fine to address CBM pain points from time to time as long as it doesn't come at a detriment to vanilla gameplay.  You'd be surprised how often it can.

However, I had one more problem swimming in my head: MM2QUI is a very nostalgic map for a lot of people.  Its flat layout and short walls have become part of a now decades-old identity for the map, and while they do cause problems, I believe that identity needs to be respected.  The challenge with this update, then, was to alleviate the pain caused by these decisions without erasing them entirely and effectively replacing the map.


I'll go ahead and break down the changes, now.

Problems:
-The map is too flat.
-The southwest corners are pointless, offering no real advantage and having the worst flow on the map.
-The southern half of the map is frustratingly segmented.

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My solution here was to replace the L-shaped quick beam corridors with a new high ground location most readily accessible via the nearby corner rooms.  Those quick beam halls previously only served to house some cheeky weapon tokens, and while that's cute, it's not helpful.  Most of the time, people just decided to hide in there, anyway.  The new purpose of those quick beams is to guard some sneaky ways to attack the high ground, which gets some otherwise fantastic sight lines and options.  This should add some height-based intrigue to the map while allowing the overall flat terrain to remain intact, as well as linking players in the southern section together.

Problem:
-The lack of null walls lets floorhuggers and flying classes terrorize matches.

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My solution here was to enclose mid and the new southern high ground into "indoor" sections.  This gives me the freedom to keep some of the shorter walls that make the map feel so arena-like, but at the same time reel in the degenerate play that this map was seeing.  Floorhuggers and flyers are still strong in the northern section, but their power should be significantly diminished along the middle and southern thirds of the map.  This also gave me the ability to add some new textures, which I think this map desperately needed.

Problem:
-The northern half of the map can be difficult to siege thanks to predictable entry points and long sight lines.

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The solution I had here wasn't actually to add more sight line blockers-- the longer sight lines in this segment add some variety to the map that helps players decide how they want to engage.  Instead, I opted to finally take back my northern quick beam and give it a similar purpose to the southern ones.  Now, you can use the quick beam corridors to sneak right up to the strongest high ground in the area, which should open the door to some more interesting gameplay up there.

The item layout changes probably speak for themselves, but if anyone wasn't keeping score before, I encourage you to open up the current version of MM2QUI and count how many weapons are in each slot.  It wasn't great.


Finally, a straggler change I want to discuss:
-Lowered the time between quick beam fires from 7 seconds to 6

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This is a change that I imagine will raise some eyebrows.  Previously, the quick beams were much harder to avoid, and their corridors only guarded pickups.  Now, there are significantly more ways to avoid the beams, and their corridors have become valuable new flanking routes.  Speeding up the attack cycle felt necessary to counteract their new value, but with all the new ways to avoid them, it shouldn't add any undue frustration.

This was one hell of a wall of text, but the point I wanted to hammer home is that I wanted, above all else, to make changes that fixed gameplay issues without trampling what's made MM2QUI unique and special for so long.  I believe I've managed to accomplish that, but I want to get this into public hands ahead of v6b to get people thinking about what this map has needed.

Thanks again to Llama for letting me tack this onto his pack, and enjoy!