Are Humans underpowered in the current Beta?

[ThaMarine]

I know the 90% of people who ever played with me think I am a whiny f**k, but please just, please read this before voting.

I thought it was just my (lack of) skill that made me think Humans are underpowered, but after playing as a Ghoul (and pawning, despite having almost no skill at Ghouls) I've decided to make this poll because I am tired of playing The Ghoul's Pawnhouse.

I'm just really sick of being cannon fodder, living for averagely 20 seconds, being outrun by Sjases who should catch you by being smarter than you, never seeing the HUMAN-WIN picture, Creepers I can't either hear or see and arrows that can't hit shit.

By the way, since of 2B5, GvH is loosing popularity and I don't want it to die.

What do I want?

First, I want people who play Ghoul and think they're not overpowered to try to play Human for a change and see how it is (and then vote on this poll). I know you have fun effortlessly pawning humans but try to understand it's only fun to you.

I would also like to see a small Beta that is using one of the options I am proposing (buffing the Humans or nerfing the Ghouls) and if people like it, then it stays, but if they don't like it, undo the changes.


Option A (buffing up the Humans):

The Marine is the closest to actaully being balanced, maybe just a little faster running (3-5% increrase would do the trick)

The Hunter has a bunch of abilities that look useful, however they only look useful.

Thunder? WTF is that? I tried it against the Doom monsters. It can barely kill a zombieman and it's slow as f**k. I propose to replace it with a weaker variation of Yurei's attack in the Yurei attack (deadly, but easy to dodge).

The ice spikes and the flame vortex are not as useless, but still not much better. I propose making the Ice spikes much more powerful, but make the effect last much shorter, but I'm not sure how to help the fire vortex without just buffing it up the old fashion way.

If you think this is quackery, why don't you try to remeber when was the last time you saw anyone getting a frag by using one of these magic attacks.

I know the fire arrow was overpowered in 2B3, but now it's underpowered. The fire arrows radius was too cheap, but removing it totally is not the solution, it's not useful anymore.

The lightning is OK, but I thing Jitter should be slighly more vulnearable to it.

Ice arrows should have a slightly larger spread and it's speed should also be slightly bigger.


The Cyborg

The dash is too non responsive (it takes 3-4 clicks to activate) and the plasma balls should be a little (5%) faster.

Option B (nerfing the Ghouls)

Sjas

I've thought the hit box should be bigger, but I realised he wouldn't fit tight corridors and wents, so I think his speed should be decreased, but if it's possible his strafing and ascending and descend speed should be the same.

Jitterskull

The Jitter is actually much more balanced as of the cooldown (I din't realise that until I played as a one), but he should have a slightly longer delay between the... how to call 'em(?)... teleports (can't think of a better word).

Creeper note that this is a must, Cutty, whether you (if you do) pick the option A or B

The Creeper is more silent in 2b5 and 2b6 than in 2b3, I don't know did Cutty intend to ever do this, but that should be reverted. (Cutty, if you think this is not true, try playing GvH 2b3 in 97D5 and the current Beta in 98A and compare the loudness of the Creeper's sound).

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Note that I'm not asking for both the option A and B at the same time, because it would make the Humans overpowered.

Both of the options should balance GvH, however the Option A buffs up the Humans and makes the game more dynamic, but the option B nerfs the Ghouls and should make the general amount of firepower lower, so it would make the people more rely on tactics and make it friendlier for newbies.

Sorry for bad english.

[Qent]

The topic title is "overpowered," but the poll question is "underpowered." You'd better change something before you get a bunch of useless results.

[CutmanMike]

The Hunter's magic attacks aren't meant to directly kill Ghouls, but merely as a "get away from me" message to them. I must admit I think I screwed the lightning over as it's very hard to hit things with. Even a orgy of Ghouls rushing at you will probably avoid the lightning without even trying.

[TERRORsphere]

What the fuck are you talking about. Everything is fine. Then again I admit that the Cyborgs plasma is too slow and the current lightning altfire is useless but the teleport altfire was.

[ThaMarine]

The topic title is "overpowered," but the poll question is "underpowered." You'd better change something before you get a bunch of useless results.

Oops! Thanks, fixed.

The Hunter's magic attacks aren't meant to directly kill Ghouls, but merely as a "get away from me" message to them. I must admit I think I screwed the lightning over as it's very hard to hit things with. Even a orgy of Ghouls rushing at you will probably avoid the lightning without even trying.

Well, the magic is too weak to scare 'em off. Would you be scared off if something took away 10 HP when you were on the top if it? I know I wouldn't be.  

I know it shouldn't be able to directly kill, but it's too weak. How are Hunters going to fight when they run out of arrows?

Everything is fine.

No, it's not fine. When was the last time you saw Humans win those 5 matches (without Ghouls being heavily outnumbered)?

[Frits]

Also, no more light restrictions pleaze!

[CarThief]

Hmm... Not too sure if they actually NEED buffs, sure, they tend to die very easily, but that depends alot on where and how you play. The map plays a large role, in most human maps the humans tend to win, altrough lately, ALOT of ghoul maps keep popping up like 10 in a row, so it seems like your doing poorly.

I'd blame it on the map, really. The classes are pretty much fine if used correctly, the Marine will do perfectly in very large area's. Cyborg does well in hallways and whatnot, the Hunter is pretty much an all-rounder (altrough if not overpowered, very strong). Hmm... The ghostbuster can be used tactically and wipe out an entire attacking group.
In short its just a whole lot of ghoul rape maps, probaly more then human maps. But atleast both sides get their fill. In order for a team to win a map they're in the disadvantadge at, some skills and tactics would come in handy. There's little to none maps that are actually balanced.

Oh, and if people INSIST on a buff, just dont make it instakill. Or it will get abused.
EDIT: What light restrictions?

[dark-slayer-201]

what I would like to see if the hunter gets a beef up in power, the old magic effect when switching arrows.
That was cool,

[CarThief]

Why do people always want to make the Hunter EVEN STRONGER? He's already the strongest and most flexible human class around. Just a bit slow on rate of fire. Altrough an enemy to be feared, even if controlled by total newbies. As if the other classes dont have any space for change.

[Frits]

EDIT: What light restrictions?

I like Legacy with ambient lightning, sometimes they're restricted.

[ThaMarine]

The things I'm proposing are not so radical, there's just alot of text that makes you think so.

Undoing the Creeper changes (Cutty said he didn't intend to make the Creeper move silently).
Slightly faster Marine running.
Beefing up the Hunter magic so the Ghouls actually care to dodge it (even the old magic system would be better IMO)
Cyborg plasma balls slightly faster and to the dash option to be responsive to clicking (the way it should've already been).

Am I asking for so much?

I believe these small changes would bring back balance to GvH.

[Mobius]

The things I'm proposing are not so radical, there's just alot of text that makes you think so.

Undoing the Creeper changes (Cutty said he didn't intend to make the Creeper move silently).
Slightly faster Marine running.
Beefing up the Hunter magic so the Ghouls actually care to dodge it (even the old magic system would be better IMO)
Cyborg plasma balls slightly faster and to the dash option to be responsive to clicking (the way it should've already been).

Am I asking for so much?

I believe these small changes would bring back balance to GvH.

Before I address all of these issues, I am going to post an image describing how I feel right now

(click to show/hide)

Now let's get some things straight.

Marine's running speed is ABSOLUTELY FINE! He's fast enough to get past Jitter crunches with some luck, timing, and range. He can probably run the same speed as a sjas so he's good. Want to run faster? Straferun. What makes up for this mediocre speed? He is faster than a cyborg with triple the fire power. He has a shotgun than can one to two hit a sjas, grenades that can one hit sjas and creepers, a pretty decent machinegun, and infinite ammunition for their pistols that are horrifically accurate. I think anything more and it'd be, "Humans vs Spectators," because no one will play. Marines are probably the hardest and top priority to kill for most of us because of their hitscan and fast firing intervals.

Hunters need a little something for their lightning and ice magic, otherwise they are fine. I don't know why people keep saying they are overpowered. I think they are overrated. The only class that REALLY worry about Hunters as creepers because of their speed and fire arrows. Any other ghoul will just have to pick and choose but that's about it. They are also the fastest humans in the game.

Cyborgs having faster projectiles? Are you serious?! You can't be serious?! You must be out of your mind, because no one is sensible enough to even suggest that. A cyborg can fly all over the place, a good survivability rate, and floor ANY ghoul in a matter of seconds if ANYTHING MORE than two shots land them. You couple that with their recharge + Marine or Ghostbuster pairing and you're going to see a long ass match. All it takes is a single good cyborg player to shift a game around in the human's favor. You're insane.

Sjas with a bigger hit box? that would break most maps as it is (as Qent put it), and it make sjas useless.

The movements of Jitters being nerfed is asking to play with a class that stands still and expects everyone to just go into their console and type in Kill. As my run on sentence suggest, it will be TOO detrimental to Jitters completely for that to happen. As I have pointed out before, hitscan spamming Marines can EASILY do away with a jitter (if the jitter is even slightly obvious). The only thing I am against is how often they are allowed to attack before actually killing something, but that's for another time.

I would like to point out that making the game friendly for newbies won't help anyone in the long run. They will meet a pro player and then what? There is no rank system to split both apart here, and someone will eventually bitch about something because they didn't get their way.

I say that marines should get a little tweak though. You either reduce their shotgun fire (their ammo) or take out infinite ammo for their handguns. The downright marine spam or hitscan spam is absurd, and I am a marine player.

[WaRRioR-TF]

If you think this is quackery, why don't you try to remeber when was the last time you saw anyone getting a frag by using one of these magic attacks.

Fire magic : Hunter that ran in circles spamming it instantly gets a kill for creepers that dont know its kinda impossible to attack when you are being hit by fire (Dunno why , just feels like that since creepers attack becomes unresponsive when being attacked by fire , experienced it myself too.)

Ice magic : Find a creeper , run at creeper , enable magic , jump , repeat few times , Ta-da a kill !

To me Hunter seems overpowered , cyborg underpowered while marine is most balanced out of three. (Except grenades , he carries too many)

[Mobius]

To me Hunter seems overpowered , cyborg underpowered while marine is most balanced out of three. (Except grenades , he carries too many)

Cyborgs are more powerful than ever now. You have to factor in their flying abilities and separate ammo supply for their 100 plasma storage that can recharge. The projectiles aren't fast because they swarm you, and then if there is 2 or more... yeah.

Hunter is overrated, not overpowered. People need to stop confusing the two.

[CutmanMike]

The Hunter's fire magic delay is long enough for a Creeper to get in there, stun and kill. The only thing you have to worry about is if he sees you after because fire arrows hurt. I find diving into the fire spin and attacking also works if you have enough health.