Frostbite and his spam

[Lighting]

GOT IT! Hellhounds from psycho fobia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBJW7H8BGo

mmm, not, that will be in emergency chase... or not? They have a firebreath and a bite attack

[Ivory]

Frost Bite is fine. Also, Frost Bite is a play on words with Frostbite. Heatbite makes no damned sense in that regard. Just remember
FROST BITE'S PURPOSE IS TO RAPIDLY KILL OFF OR SCATTER CAMPING HUMANS IN TIGHT AREAS.

[Anonymous]

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[Mobius]

It is one of these threads that remind me why certain players shouldn't post about character balancing. That being said, an opinion is always welcomed but I think some people should reevulate their priorities before posting. When making a suggestion like this, here is some things to consider.

Checklist

How much experience do you have with GVH?
What is your honest experience with a class you are speaking about?
Do you play with the the opposing class you favor? Do you play with humans if you are a ghoul fan? Do you play with ghouls if you are a human fan?
Do you know the metagame of Gvh and the maps?
Do you know the strength and weakness of each class on a particular map?
Are you emotionally invested in your opinion?
Is your opinion purely based on your own experience? Do you see others play?
How good are you, really? Be honest.
Do you have supportive evidence besides, "hearsay," to strengthen your claim? If you do not have anything then it is best to see 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Do you find yourself abusing or exploiting something?

A quarter of these is mandatory, and more than half require an answer. With this, you should then realize that if the checksum sounds poor than you really should reconsider questioning balance. If you have a lot of experience in gvh then you should have experience with both ghouls and humans together. We'll assume perhaps you have some experience with your favorite class. That is already 3 questions asked, but then here is some others. Most people do not know what 4 is, but if you know how a map is played and what people do on a map than you know the meta (Meta = You expect jitters in Urban Decay, know the camp spots, what are the best classes, and what attacks work at different parts of a map).

5 Assumes you know everything about every class on every map. Now, of course, there is different playing styles for everyone but every map brings its own advantages and disadvantages to Gvh. 6 is the make and break of your opinion because if you are heavily emotional about your statement then chances are you are either frustrated or content -- emotions can sway your judgment. Are you speaking for everyone or for yourself? Are you upset because someone is exploiting you or is it because everyone else is legitimately suffering? Here is a fun fact:

People complain about the speed of a sjas, but he is no faster than a marine. He may dodge and have z height advantages, but is vulnerable to corridors where grenades, ice arrows, plasma, and certain proton pack attacks dominate. These are basic strengths and weakness of a sjas. Now if the sjas is slower than he is vulnerable to more human weapons (marine hitscan weapons to be exact). This opinion is more self serving than legit considering that only people from one camp (humans) frown on sjas' speed regardless of how he plays.

Another example is the Lightning Arrow exploit. In case you didn't know the lightning arrow exploit allowed people to obtain a perpetual amount of arrows. You can literally spam all types of arrows so long as you continue the exploit for more ammunition. Not only is this detrimental to creeper and Jitter classes but also an unintended error in the system people are exploiting for more power they shouldn't have. This hurts everyone.

The contrast to these opinions is that one is rooted by the rules set by Cutman and hurts everyone, while the other merely suggest weakening a class to enable another to succeed. As it has happened, sjas players have fallen many times so it is a matter of preference in this issue. The latter is a real issue that was ratified.

7 Is basically what I describe for 6, but this time you must also look from the point of view from other players while they play. F12 a lot of people and see what is happening. What errors are they making and what could they have done to avoid the consequence (if applicable)?

8 Is a given.

9 Is entirely simple. You need evidence to support your theory. The theory must be replicated constantly, tried and true, and must be successful a majority of the time. Then you must compare the evidence to the strength and weakness of not only the classes but the map they are on.

10. Is exactly how the Lightning Arrow issue was solved and others before it. You must bring to the table your ability to use it yourself against others more than once to a mastery where when the issue is presented, it can have terrible effects. Do not confuse this for a winning strategy, as with Frostbite, one can always avoid the range in which his breath reaches. You can also use other forms of attacks to bring him down.

So let's say I wanted to argue you, right? My first thoughts are.

Frostbite isn't too fast, his bite attack has a terrible jerking delay, is very obviously and brightly colored, and loud enough to be detected by ear. Then I will bring up most open ended maps where hitscan weapons dominate and Frostbite himself isn't exactly a tank like jitter. Then I ask, "what map and what were you doing?" Now if you were in one place, repeatedly, doing something repetitious then you deserve the punishment. Now if it was a situation like Gvh11, Hollyholocaust, where exploiting the Arcade room with Ghostbuster and Santa clause can literally stop the game into a deadlock and guarantee success without teammate intervention than you got a case; however, that is situational and it always is on gvh unless it is a solid game exploit.

These things must be considered before you make a post. Sorry that it was long, but I find the thought of Frostbite being nerfed to be absurd.

[TERRORsphere]

We should of kept the old one from the beta.

Really no. The old one from the beta was slower than a cyborg, only had 100hp and bite attack did like 2hp of damage.

All the classes are fine. Cutman did a really good job on balancing them. Now if the creeper could creeper ball jump and the cyborg didn't have to doubletap everything would be perfect.

Oh last thing,

(click to show/hide)

addplayerclass DoomPlayer2
addplayerclass HunterPlayer
addplayerclass Cyborg
addplayerclass ghostbuster
addplayerclass Engineer
addplayerclass Sjas // NOT Sjasface
addplayerclass Jitterskull
addplayerclass Creeper
addplayerclass Choke
addplayerclass FrostBite



//COPY PASTE THIS, CUTMAN.

[Qent]

I agree but his armor should be 100 or 120 not 200 and new armor icon that looks something icy

...



pucy, hurry up and play b8.

[CutmanMike]

... and the cyborg didn't have to doubletap everything would be perfect.

A last resort I could make it so you can hit "useinventory" to execute the dash. But then it feels a bit out of place cause no one else has use inventories (unless I make other classes have crazy new abilities). I'll put up a poll for next week. Maybe I could give the Ghost Buster one to downgrade back to regular proton pack (without giving ammo back of course).

I'll fix the class list for next version, god dammit  

The Engineer seems a bit too strong at the minute IMO. It's extremely hard to dodge those nails, and he has infinite of them. I was thinking decreasing the damage of them slightly. Right now it's 15 per nail.

Also, after fixing the lightning arrow bug it seems everyone can pick up arrows... including ghouls!

[Ivory]

Because we all know how much Ghouls need them arrows. Creepers sneaking up behind you and stabbing arrows in your ankles. Ouch, not a fun experience.

[TERRORsphere]

useinventory would be awesome.

Ideas for humans:

(click to show/hide)

Marine: Crouch.

Hunter: Duel arrows but only fires natural arrows and makes you run a little slower than you do while loading lightning arrows.

Cyborg: Derp?

Ghostbuster: Downgrading sounds cool.

Engineer: I don't know.

Ideas for ghouls.

(click to show/hide)

Sjas: Stop moving instantly.

Jitterskull: The same as his current bite but flys into the air and is shorter ranged. But stops the ability to clip on floors during the attack (to catch those darn flying cyborgs)

Creepers: BALL JUMP!

Choke: Instant puke but shoots twice the distance as the current one.

Frostbite: Hold to double the speed of breath regeneration but costs armour.

[CarThief]

useinventory would be awesome.
Creepers: BALL JUMP!

An perfect and REQUIRED idea for our little crippled friend. With some extra mobility he can be ALOT more stealthy, or go all ninja on humans.
Oh, and dont forget that high-up campers would have some more trouble then too. Some say he's good, i'd say it wont harm, though this should rather take part of his ammo.

And merely a personal preference about the Jitterskull suggestion, i'd rather have something usefull against the overpowered hitscan, or have something defensive and usefull after attacking, since... Meh, he doesnt last long in the open. Should of course be limited. Here's an idea, have him have like 2-3 items that grant him armor.

Of course thats merely a suggestion, but if everyone where to have something somewhat usefull as inventory option, why not?

[CutmanMike]

If I do this I don't want to give them new powers or attacks.

[Qent]

Hunter: Dispel arrow. Instead of having to release it (makes noise, annoying with fire) just puts the arrow back in your quiver.

[CutmanMike]

Hmm good idea, I can see that having it's uses.

[Mobius]

Hunter: Dispel arrow. Instead of having to release it (makes noise, annoying with fire) just puts the arrow back in your quiver.

That'd save a lot of trouble if the enemy isn't heading towards a specific location.

[CutmanMike]

All right it looks like I'm definitely gonna do this. Still need some "abilities" for the other classes. Maybe for the marine a combat roll/slide or something? Kinda like the Cyborg's dash but he can only do it in the direction he's facing, and maybe make it a little different.