Firstly, my issues. Plenty have spoke up about non-gameplay stuff such as the wad size, graphics issues, etc., so I won't comment on those but to say that they ought to be fixed.
What graphic issues? There are none.
In terms of wad size, when we make the new core it'll be 80 megs + 40 meg music pack, we found that all the old GVH data was not compressed properly and that was our mistake for assuming CarThief actually did his job.
Now, the first thing I will address is balance. As has been pointed out in this thread, the previous thread mentioned by DTD, and NS's old thread (and I believe the new one) on the Skulltag forums, the problem is that you've ruined the delicate balance of the mode. In GvH, balance was maintained by the fact that (as a general rule), ghouls were equipped with strong, close-range weapons, while humans were equipped with weaker, longer-range weapons. Looking at the pre-NS cast, you can see this was the case.
This is wrong because we actually fixed that gap, that was the whole REASON why GVH was broken in the first place. In most maps humans would just go to a single point and camp into insanity and kill everything. There was no balance in the old GVH, being against 5 sjases automatically meant a win. In NS, this doesn't happen.
Even your own CarThief knew that sjas was OP and was going to put a limit on them.
We fixed that problem. Next.
Now, what has NS done to this? Well, as many have pointed out, you've added melee to Humans and ranged to Ghouls. I don't see many using Barbarian, and I'm going to assume that's because he can't do very well in the hands of the average player.
I see barbarians almost every round unless its a massive map like GVHNS04, even then people like Ivan still beat everyone just because of the amount of skill he has. We've even had the barbarian Band Of Brothers achievement unlocked, where 4+ barbs all get at least one kill... there were 6 barbs on the team-- I'm pretty sure the 'average player' wouldn't go barbarian if they'd just get their rear end kicked.
Say it's 5v5. Everyone picks random. Humans come up with Barbarian plus 4 pre-NS, ranged classes. Ghouls come up with Ice Demon plus 4 pre-NS, melee classes. The Barbarian goes to attack close up, it's now 4v1.
Whats an Ice demon? You mean icefiend? Clarify please.
Also the barbarian has a ranged attack as well, he's not only melee. You don't see barbarians just rushing in there by themselves. No one does that unless they're berserking and playing a gamble. If you played the game, you'd know this is flawed logic.
That leads me to the Ghouls. My oh my. While a melee class added to the Humans is highly ineffective,
If you played the wad, you'd know how incorrect this is.
ranged classes on the Ghouls is very effective... in empowering the Ghouls. The ranged attacks I'm referring to are those of Ice Fiend, Frostbite, and Defiler in specific. Now, when the humans employ their normal (and really only effective, mind you) tactics, they are immediately flushed out by these powerful ranged attacks.
Defiler's ranged attack is not good at all (and people keep asking for it to be buffed, even though we've hit a good equilibrium point where it's quite balanced) and IceFiend's ice can easily be jumped over/nullified by standing on any object to anyone who has a brain. It only punishes people who camp-- which was a major flaw in the first place.
In the chaos produced by Frostbite's dazzling attacks, the Ice Demon's very difficult to dodge icicle attack, and the obstruction provided by Defilers, the melee ghouls, who once had to deal with coordinated and deliberate fire from the Humans, can now come in and wreck havoc.
If what you said was actually true, then ghouls would just win 5-0 24/7 and no one would play our wad; but that doesn't happen.
Seeing as you've managed to avoid or 'filibust' the previous arguments on this point, let's look at another way shall we? Humans have quite a few classes with weak-to-medium long-range weapons, with a few close range weapons that cannot be reliably used as primary weapons (grenades, mines, etc.), and a melee class. Ghouls have quite a few powerful, fast melee classes with a few medium-to-powerful, long-ranged classes. Which sounds more powerful?
See above point, because if it was true ghouls would just win all the time. Even on maps that are jam packed like GVH16... ghouls still do lose and I've been part of countless 4-5's on that game. In-game experience disproves this.
You've claimed that you have 'added' 'unique' balance. Firstly, balance is not something you add.
Yes it is, you add something to shift the favor to a better equilibrium, therefore you add something to achieve balance. What is so hard to understand here?
One can claim to have 'semi-balance', where the sides of the scale are juuust about on the same level. However, what you've done is add a feather to one side of the scale, and a brick to the other.
GVH was like the brick, in our game... you don't see a huge team of ghouls destroying everyone. It's usually 4-5, which is the exact oppposite. In fact, most of the rounds come down to 1 v 1 at the end.
Very balanced indeed. The only time it sways in favor is when one team does really dumb moves like rushes in on GB traps, or if Ivan and myself + some other good Doomers go hunter and just kick everyone's behind.
Secondly, there is no such thing as 'unique' balance. As I said, balance is a state, with no denotation of specifics; in other words, 'balance' can refer to a feather on both sides of the scale, or a brick on both sides. Yes, you can make unique classes, but making unique classes doesn't make things balanced.
Incorrect, we added classes which actually fixed the massively broken equilibrium GVH didn't have. The defiler and Icefiend stop camping, Barbarian stops up close ghoul ass-kicking within reason... just enough so that it's anybody's game.
Nowadays, you can't even tell who is going to win because it's mainly skill based now. There's no "Oh choke IS going to win".
Now, previously, when others had brought up these issues, you have done a number of things. You have disregarded them as trolls, pointing to past actions of theirs which you define as trolling. Secondly, you have pointed to their own past mistakes, telling them they are in now position to make the above analyses. These counterarguments of yours are folly. When something is observable, as the above is, the person making the observation does not matter. For example, I have no past of project mismanagement or trolling on you and your co-developers. I have made the above observations just as those you have disregarded have.
The problem is their points are fundamentally flawed, and they act as if it's correct.
If these kids went into the science field, they'd be mincemeat within the first day. You should also take note of this.
Additionally, one of your most common counterpoints is that those judging your mod have not played it enough. You back this up by saying that either you or one of your co-developers are always or virtually always observing your server, therefore knowing who is on and who isn't. This is also a rather faulty claim. Firstly, it doesn't take 6 hours of gameplay to see the differences between NS and GvH; namely the changed attacks and new classes. If it is well known that GvH relied on the range vs. melee dynamic for balance, and it's obvious within 15 minutes of gameplay that the Ghouls have received powerful new ranged attacks, it isn't hard to make the step that this will hinder balance. If you want to require more information, damage outputs and speeds can be identified offline, over which you have no knowledge. Speaking of which, it's easy to garner empirical data without joining the server as well; for instance, your claim that you almost always end up with 4-5 score is hardly believable.
And you're basing your learning curve off of an outdated game on a new one with different dynamics.
Again if you played in game, you'd realize that 4-5 comes up almost all the time. Offline does nothing because I've removed useless bots from the game. GV is the only server that hosts GVH and I'm in there most of the time.
Hell, right now for the 5th map in a row, I hear the 4-4 theme playing.
You make these claims, yet you won't back them up.
I just debunked everything you said, game experience proves you wrong. People who play prove you wrong. The server itself proves you wrong, yet for some reason you keep the blinders on going "my lack of in game experience doesn't make my points any less valid", when in reality it is all that
You insist you cannot get the logs; if that is false, shame on you, and if it's true, stop making these claims, and stop threatening to search logs for users. You can't be believed.
I have access to the logs, but posting a 100 megabyte log on this forum not only compromises people's identity and probably breaks a few international laws with respect to internet privacy, it's also against the wishes of the administrator -- and I also believe doing so is just wrong.
All I ask for is a name so I can go verify in the logs how much time a person has played. That's all.
Give me the user name you played with then. Let me verify. Do this, prove me wrong.
You want to move the discussion to a 'neutral' IRC chat? That makes no sense at all, friend. Everyone who would want to participate in this discussion has access this forum (unless they've been banned, in which case we don't want them anyway). You feel like you're in 'enemy territory', that you're being assaulted by too many users, and that you haven't enough 'back up'? Nonsense, everyone on 'our' side has the same opinion. No other explanations other than self-interest exist for moving to your IRC.
Dear 'friend', IRC is a neutral ground with real time response. You can't sit back behind your computer and concoct a massive debacle like your points where. Flaws get shot down instantly, instead you have a circle jerk here of people who have nothing useful to add and just quote people going "yeah yeah!", people who take shots at us just because we debunk their friends, and non-neutral mods.
Anyone with common sense would not want to come here.
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