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Author Topic: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers [v1e]  (Read 64208 times)

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May 10, 2013, 09:39:09 PM
Reply #15

Offline Beed28

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2013, 09:39:09 PM »
I don't think Zandronum even supports MENUDEF...

May 12, 2013, 03:37:07 AM
Reply #16

Offline TheDoc

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2013, 03:37:07 AM »
I played this on survival online and....well there were problems.
1.) Everyone wore blue and cyan no matter the weapon. Idk if this is bcuz of this mod but wuddever
2.) The weapon room showed Docrobot as having his Toadman weapon, but he kinda sorta didn't
3.) No one (and I mean NO ONE, not just Docrobot) could pick up weapon capsules. This sucked donkey balls for weapons with high ammo consumption.
4.) Anyone could select the stage. Not sure if this was intended.
5.) I couldn't see the boss health bar whether I was spectating or fighting. You can imagine why this would be a problem :|
6.) The flashing on the bosses were kind of strange. They would go between original coloring and blue-cyan.

Those are the bugs. Now here's my problems with the mod in general.

1.) There's no resetgame door anywhere. This means that the game is brought to an abrupt halt after awhile because all the weapons have been earned. There's a server rotting on DoomSeeker as I post this because of this.
2.) I liked Bass's original SP buster better; not only is this a pain to use when you need to move and shoot simultaneously (Toadman's stage JESUS CHRIST), but I thought the rage concept was new and fun to use.
3.) Darkman's Cutter Twins' ammo consumption is WAY too high for when they're on either side of you floating idly. Every half-second, an ammo bar goes down. Literally any other Darkman weapon would be more efficient to use. Hell, Roll's Atomic Radiance is more efficient. As least that lasts fairly long.

Here's something else interesting. As it stands, the ACS script for this is uncompilable. Seriously, I went to SLADE3 and tried to compile the ACS script as is and it gave me some error about legofunc. Just FYI :D .

May 12, 2013, 04:09:04 AM
Reply #17

Offline Korby

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2013, 04:09:04 AM »
were you loading it with any other mods. it certainly sounds like you were.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
1.) There's no resetgame door anywhere. This means that the game is brought to an abrupt halt after awhile because all the weapons have been earned. There's a server rotting on DoomSeeker as I post this because of this.
afaik? yes there is. it's literally right behind where everyone spawns.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
3.) Darkman's Cutter Twins' ammo consumption is WAY too high for when they're on either side of you floating idly. Every half-second, an ammo bar goes down. Literally any other Darkman weapon would be more efficient to use. Hell, Roll's Atomic Radiance is more efficient. As least that lasts fairly long.

here's a tip for darkman. switch your weapon when you're not using the shield to cut down on ammo costs. use cutter twins for additional firing support, not as a hugging weapon, his other shields are better at that.


oh right, if it's not common knowledge yet, I helped with this mod, which is why I'm posting.

May 12, 2013, 04:25:50 AM
Reply #18

Offline Russel

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2013, 04:25:50 AM »
Quote from: "TheDoc"
-snip-
These bugs seem to be either lag or mod related...may want to check up on that because I don't remember encountering anything close to things related to this.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
1.) There's no resetgame door anywhere. This means that the game is brought to an abrupt halt after awhile because all the weapons have been earned. There's a server rotting on DoomSeeker as I post this because of this.
You are correct. There is not one and I agree that there should be one. It will be added next version.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
2.) I liked Bass's original SP buster better; not only is this a pain to use when you need to move and shoot simultaneously (Toadman's stage JESUS CHRIST), but I thought the rage concept was new and fun to use.
I personally like this version of Bass Buster...it just seems more correct than the one in the original MMSP. I will be keeping it for my own opinion reasons.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
3.) Darkman's Cutter Twins' ammo consumption is WAY too high for when they're on either side of you floating idly. Every half-second, an ammo bar goes down. Literally any other Darkman weapon would be more efficient to use. Hell, Roll's Atomic Radiance is more efficient. As least that lasts fairly long.
This will probably be changed, but Darkman requires a learning curve before you realize your shield can only be turned off by switching weapons.

Quote from: "TheDoc"
Here's something else interesting. As it stands, the ACS script for this is uncompilable. Seriously, I went to SLADE3 and tried to compile the ACS script as is and it gave me some error about legofunc. Just FYI :D .
It was not intended for others to recompile my code. The solution is quite simple, you need to use my functions library that I intended to release at a later date. In order to compile the current build you have to place that in the same directory as your ACC and rename it to LEGOFUNC.acs. You can also find a full list of functions and their actions here.

May 12, 2013, 04:28:19 AM
Reply #19

Offline TheDoc

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2013, 04:28:19 AM »
Quote from: "Korby"
were you loading it with any other mods. it certainly sounds like you were.

No. No I didn't.

Quote from: "Karby"
afaik? yes there is. it's literally right behind where everyone spawns.

I typed in resetgame and nothing happened, but i'll try it again, i guess.

Quote from: "Kirby"
here's a tip for darkman. switch your weapon when you're not using the shield to cut down on ammo costs. use cutter twins for additional firing support, not as a hugging weapon, his other shields are better at that.

If you agree that using it as a hugging weapon is a bad idea, why don't you fix it? Either make the ammo consumption less or just remove the hugging altogether, so everyone's happy.

Quote from: "Kerby"
oh right, if it's not common knowledge yet, I helped with this mod, which is why I'm posting.

I actually didn't know that. Well, ya learn something new every day.

EDIT: Oops, didnt see your post lego

May 12, 2013, 05:02:27 AM
Reply #20

Offline Korby

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2013, 05:02:27 AM »
it's not a weapon designed for hugging, so increasing its power for hugging would be against the purpose of the weapon.

May 12, 2013, 11:59:27 AM
Reply #21

Offline Shade Guy

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Damn Fake Man RPers.
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2013, 11:59:27 AM »
Hey kids! I took a look at your mod...Well, sort of. I only had a proper look at Doc Robot, so have some comments regarding him.

For Doc Robot:
-Doc Robot can pick up WTanks, despite him being unable to use them.
-"The Gargantuan Cutter can decapitate anything who dares to cross your path!" Ow, my grammar.
-Gargantuan Cutter absolutely demolishes Escaroo or whatever his name is. It demolishes a lot of things, actually, but this example is especially problematic since the guy is a miniboss.
-Needle Twister demolishes both Toad Man and Heat Man. I'm not exactly sure what the weakness chain is for this mod, but shouldn't it only demolish one of the two?
-I would suggest adding an Oil Slider-esque transparent ammo bar to Needle Twister to indicate how long you can hold down fire for, since at the moment said time limit is not specified. I don't like unspecified time limits when it comes to weapons. Being thrust further into the air when using it in mid-air is a bit odd, too; perhaps it should check zheight or whatever so it only thrusts you upwards if you're on the ground?
-Surprise Rain seems awkward, since it's two abilities put together; regular old Rain Flush (albeit with altered graphics) is slapped on to a crappier version of Classes Drill Man's altfire (since it can't travel through players or enemies). I always interpreted Toad Man's super ability being summoning the torrent of water from the pipes above, which I thought would translate into summoning a pillar of water from the ceiling instead of becoming a puddle. If you want to keep your puddle interpretation, I would suggest altering it to focus more on the 'hiding in a puddle' aspect. That is, let it travel through players and enemies to give it more of an evasive use, and instead of the Rain Flush attack slapped on, perhaps give it a radius splash (literally splashing water) attack when you hop out of the puddle or something. At the very least, give it a transparent ammo bar to indicate how much longer you can hide in your puddle.

Generally, I would prefer if edits to the original content present in the mod were kept to a minimum, aside for balancing purposes with the addition of 4 new classes. Revamping stuff like Bass Buster and Proto Buster is debatable, but I certainly disapprove of needless cosmetic changes such as changing the skins for classes.

Also, in the hub, the additional room with the weapon tally thing (that shows which weapons which class has) feels awkward and tacked on, especially since it uses a completely different set of textures. I would have suggested merely altering the original weapon tally screen via extending it/adding another one next to it, since the camera thing that is present on that space now is fairly useless, and you can't even see its new function while playing offline/as the leader. At the very least, widen the corridor leading to the additional room. I've seen a bunch of dopes role playing as Fake Men police and barricading the room, and allowing people to do that kind of stuff is no good.

May 12, 2013, 12:43:36 PM
Reply #22

Offline Beed28

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2013, 12:43:36 PM »
Quote from: "Shade Guy"
...but I certainly disapprove of needless cosmetic changes such as changing the skins for classes.
Yeah, the Bass skin change was questionable.

Quote from: "Shade Guy"
Also, in the hub, the additional room with the weapon tally thing (that shows which weapons which class has) feels awkward and tacked on, especially since it uses a completely different set of textures. I would have suggested merely altering the original weapon tally screen via extending it/adding another one next to it, since the camera thing that is present on that space now is fairly useless, and you can't even see its new function while playing offline/as the leader. At the very least, widen the corridor leading to the additional room. I've seen a bunch of dopes role playing as Fake Men police and barricading the room, and allowing people to do that kind of stuff is no good.
At least people can't cosplay as Guts Man.

But yeah, what exactly does the screen do? I'm an offline player, so I'm wondering.

Anyway, the linedefs of the weapon got "room" needs to be flagged as hidden so it won't show up on the automap. Also, speaking of the automap, I tried using IDDT and saw that parts of the other levels were present in the hub map(!!!). Will this unnecessary space be removed?

May 12, 2013, 02:28:46 PM
Reply #23

Offline Gummywormz

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2013, 02:28:46 PM »
Quote from: "TheDoc"
3.) No one (and I mean NO ONE, not just Docrobot) could pick up weapon capsules. This sucked donkey balls for weapons with high ammo consumption.

I had this problem offline with no mods added as well.

May 12, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
Reply #24

Offline TheDoc

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2013, 03:03:54 PM »
Quote from: "Korby"
it's not a weapon designed for hugging, so increasing its power for hugging would be against the purpose of the weapon.

That's why I'm more for removing the hugging altogether. We both agree that the hugging isn't the main purpose of the weapon, so why not just remove it completely? I'm aware that you can "turn off" the cutters by switching weapons, but that should only be necessary if you're done using it, not because you want to save ammo. The reason this is okay for Darkman's other weapons is because those weapons are MEANT to be left on. Cutter Twins' hugging ability simply isn't because of the ammo consumption. Just remove the hugging.

May 12, 2013, 03:37:21 PM
Reply #25

Offline Gumballtoid

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Re: Damn Fake Man RPers.
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2013, 03:37:21 PM »
Quote from: "Shade Guy"
Revamping stuff like Bass Buster and Proto Buster is debatable, but I certainly disapprove of needless cosmetic changes such as changing the skins for classes.
I loved the revamped busters. I'm glad to be able to use Mega Man's charge buster, and Proto and Bass's busters are beautiful aesthetically.

On the other hand, I died inside when I saw the RM7FC Bass and mobile Roll. Those are probably the two alternate skins I dislike the most and I found the basic skins to be satisfactory, but it's a matter of preference, really.

May 12, 2013, 03:42:12 PM
Reply #26

Offline Max

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2013, 03:42:12 PM »
I don't approve of the revamp to Bass' buster. It's difficult to take out enemies such as Big Eyes and Sniper Joes, as you have to move by jumping just to avoid shots or stay out of range. The update to the visuals are fine by me, but the new revamp seemed a little underpowered and it removes the whole bezerker thing that Bass had going on which went well with his close-range weaponry.

The Proto Buster on the other hand is fine. It seems a little underpowered in it's current state, but it's functionality is much better than Bass'.

I'd just like to add that I had no problems picking up energy.

May 12, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
Reply #27

Offline Russel

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Re: Damn Fake Man RPers.
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2013, 06:50:14 PM »
Quote from: "Shade Guy"
Hey kids! I took a look at your mod...Well, sort of. I only had a proper look at Doc Robot, so have some comments regarding him.

For Doc Robot:
-Doc Robot can pick up WTanks, despite him being unable to use them.
I will probably keep this because you can drop items online considering it's coop/survival. It will need to be changed offline, though.
-"The Gargantuan Cutter can decapitate anything who dares to cross your path!" Ow, my grammar.
My apologies, I rushed with the weapon descriptions.
-Gargantuan Cutter absolutely demolishes Escaroo or whatever his name is. It demolishes a lot of things, actually, but this example is especially problematic since the guy is a miniboss.
Duo Fist does it worse than Gargantuan Cutter...both will most likely be nerfed next version.
-Needle Twister demolishes both Toad Man and Heat Man. I'm not exactly sure what the weakness chain is for this mod, but shouldn't it only demolish one of the two?
That is unintentional, but not untrue. It will probably receive a nerf next version.
-I would suggest adding an Oil Slider-esque transparent ammo bar to Needle Twister to indicate how long you can hold down fire for, since at the moment said time limit is not specified. I don't like unspecified time limits when it comes to weapons. Being thrust further into the air when using it in mid-air is a bit odd, too; perhaps it should check zheight or whatever so it only thrusts you upwards if you're on the ground?
-Surprise Rain seems awkward, since it's two abilities put together; regular old Rain Flush (albeit with altered graphics) is slapped on to a crappier version of Classes Drill Man's altfire (since it can't travel through players or enemies). I always interpreted Toad Man's super ability being summoning the torrent of water from the pipes above, which I thought would translate into summoning a pillar of water from the ceiling instead of becoming a puddle. If you want to keep your puddle interpretation, I would suggest altering it to focus more on the 'hiding in a puddle' aspect. That is, let it travel through players and enemies to give it more of an evasive use, and instead of the Rain Flush attack slapped on, perhaps give it a radius splash (literally splashing water) attack when you hop out of the puddle or something. At the very least, give it a transparent ammo bar to indicate how much longer you can hide in your puddle.
Doc Robot is Uki's class, I will talk with him about these two.

Generally, I would prefer if edits to the original content present in the mod were kept to a minimum, aside for balancing purposes with the addition of 4 new classes. Revamping stuff like Bass Buster and Proto Buster is debatable, but I certainly disapprove of needless cosmetic changes such as changing the skins for classes.
Proto was changed to differentiate him from Duo. Mega was given a charge buster to make him less...um...yes, less um; that seems like the appropriate word for it. Bass was changed because I didn't like the berserker effect all that much. All cosmetic changes are simply a matter of personal opinionated preference.

Also, in the hub, the additional room with the weapon tally thing (that shows which weapons which class has) feels awkward and tacked on, especially since it uses a completely different set of textures. I would have suggested merely altering the original weapon tally screen via extending it/adding another one next to it, since the camera thing that is present on that space now is fairly useless, and you can't even see its new function while playing offline/as the leader. At the very least, widen the corridor leading to the additional room. I've seen a bunch of dopes role playing as Fake Men police and barricading the room, and allowing people to do that kind of stuff is no good.
WHELP. Looks like I do have to make the map less like Light's lab...I added the extra room because I could not get an extended weapon screen to look good/accurate to the initial design of the lab.
Now that I'm done dissecting that quote...
Quote from: "Beed28"
But yeah, what exactly does the screen do? I'm an offline player, so I'm wondering.

---

Anyway, the linedefs of the weapon got "room" needs to be flagged as hidden so it won't show up on the automap. Also, speaking of the automap, I tried using IDDT and saw that parts of the other levels were present in the hub map(!!!). Will this unnecessary space be removed?
The screen changes to show a preview of the stage via use of a moving camera, which means it is not likely that the space will be removed. all of that needs to be marked as hidden because I probably missed some while making that screen.

Quote from: "Gummywormz"
I had this problem offline with no mods added as well.
Please tell me you were serious about this. List all the circumstances associated with this bug, because I still have yet to encounter it.
Because...if you have the DocBusterSP in your inventory, you will be completely unable to pick up energy.

May 12, 2013, 08:56:39 PM
Reply #28

Offline TheDoc

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2013, 08:56:39 PM »
I think I've already said, I don't like the current Bass, so I threw together a hotfix giving him his original MMSP buster.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ibb9qr1y5xwcbaa

P.S: Load this in after MMSPSIN. It worked fine for me, but tell me if there's any problems. Also, just FYI, I didn't change the skin; too lazy and just plain don't care.

May 14, 2013, 06:10:16 PM
Reply #29

Offline TailsMK4

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Re: [Mod] Mission Mode: Strength in Numbers
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 06:10:16 PM »
Since I haven't seen it mentioned, but on my Survival server, even though players receive Toad Man's weapon after defeating him, the progress at Dr. Light's Lab still show no one has defeated Toad Man yet. Therefore classes still show Toad Man's wep missing even though it appears in the rotation when the player switches his/her weps. Heck, even Toad Man's face still appears on the stage select screen. The other three do not have the problem.