[HOTFIX] - King Yamato's Classes Overhaul

[Korby]

HUDs updated.  

I love you Thank you so much~

[Gummywormz]

Why does the stupid link give a crapload of files that aren't compiled into a wad?

Why does that link have to be broken?! I want to play this soooo badly!

My avatar says my exact feelings on the matter.

Try renaming it to .pk3. You should also be able to load it normally regardless.

[Shmeckie]

Dark Man 1-3 may end up in the YD Classes. KY Classes must not be left behind!

Dark Man 1-3 classes. Let's make it happen, people!

[Chimera Man]

Dark Man 1 is purely too bland. Dark Man 2 is a worse Dark Man 4...

...But we will consider Dark Man 3. He has something worthy going on.  

[Shmeckie]

Dark Man 1 is purely too bland.

Covered that in the other thread: Mainfire is a powerful buster, altfire is a speed/mobility boost. Or he could get that as he loses health. Or his speed boost could be a ramming attack, ala Charge Kick (that WAS why his speed up was supposed to be a threat, after all--he was trying to hit you). Make him control as an opposite to Top Man; slow strafing, normal forward walking speed. Now he's got a unique schtick.

There ya go!

Dark Man 2 is a worse Dark Man 4...

Give him Dark Man's shield as his primary (with ammo that decreases as you use it, making it a unique Leaf Shield/Star Crash hybrid that wouldn't make it as ridiculous as it'd be if it was Dark Man's shield on a speedy character), and the aforementioned speed/mobility boost alt (or increase as he loses health), and there ya go.

Perhaps his speed boost could consume a chunk of ammo when used, making it harder for him to just go around blitzing people with high-speed shield hugging.

You just need a little imagination!

...But we will consider Dark Man 3. He has something worthy going on.

DO IT!!!!

>:(

:D

[Chimera Man]

You know why Charge Man has a ramming attack? Because he is Charge Man. His main attack is charging.

I doubt it will be worth to put these two classes. At least Dark Man 3 actually have attacks, you know.

Sorry if I have offended you.  

[Shmeckie]

I think you're being a bit too dismissive, here.

Dark Man 1 and 2 had one attack, AND they sped up. Despite the fact that he doesn't have "charge" in his name, Dark Man 1's M.O. for his speed increase was to ram into you. He would even turn to chase you if you jumped over him. Dark Man 2's was to, in a similar fashion, hit you with the shield.

You say it wouldn't be "worth it," but I bet the folks would have fun with those 2 classes if you put some thought into them and added them in. Giving them their individual attacks (Dark Man Buster and Dark Man Wall, respectively) with minor tweaks to seperate them from Dark man 4's versions, and giving them an ammo-consuming speed boooster alt which would have different uses for each of them (Charge Kick-esque ramming attack for Dark Man 1, temporary speed increase for Dark Man 2).

Dark Man 2 would be seperated from similar classes because he can't fire his shield. He'd be a pure "chase you down and win with hug damage" class. Unlike Star Man, for instance, he can't shoot his sheild forward or anything like that. He'd be a pure rushdown character, giving him a disadvantage at range, which the defensive properties of the Dark Man Wall would help him overcome, so that he's not toally screwed. Dark Man 1 would be a powerful character in straightaways, possesing a powerful blaster and ramming attack, giving him a better range of attack than the likes of Charge Man, but with a greater lack of movement. In wide-open areas he'd have trouble, but if he catches you in a narrow passageway, he can turn the tables real quick.

[TheDoc]

Gravityman goes WAAAAAY too slow when on the ceiling. Im practically a sitting duck and too easily killed. I dont see why theres should be such a big difference in speed.

Not to annoy you, but will you fix this? I loved the idea of Gravityman on the ceiling when I first played this, but he didn't slow down AT ALL in the game, much less go THIS slow.

[xColdxFusionx]

I think you're being a bit too dismissive, here.

Dark Man 1 and 2 had one attack, AND they sped up. Despite the fact that he doesn't have "charge" in his name, Dark Man 1's M.O. for his speed increase was to ram into you. He would even turn to chase you if you jumped over him. Dark Man 2's was to, in a similar fashion, hit you with the shield.

You say it wouldn't be "worth it," but I bet the folks would have fun with those 2 classes if you put some thought into them and added them in. Giving them their individual attacks (Dark Man Buster and Dark Man Wall, respectively) with minor tweaks to seperate them from Dark man 4's versions, and giving them an ammo-consuming speed boooster alt which would have different uses for each of them (Charge Kick-esque ramming attack for Dark Man 1, temporary speed increase for Dark Man 2).

Dark Man 2 would be seperated from similar classes because he can't fire his shield. He'd be a pure "chase you down and win with hug damage" class. Unlike Star Man, for instance, he can't shoot his sheild forward or anything like that. He'd be a pure rushdown character, giving him a disadvantage at range, which the defensive properties of the Dark Man Wall would help him overcome, so that he's not toally screwed. Dark Man 1 would be a powerful character in straightaways, possesing a powerful blaster and ramming attack, giving him a better range of attack than the likes of Charge Man, but with a greater lack of movement. In wide-open areas he'd have trouble, but if he catches you in a narrow passageway, he can turn the tables real quick.

You're giving those two classes way too much credit. Why play Darkman1 when Mega/Proto are basically the same thing? Why would you play Darkman2 when you could just play Chargeman or Starman?

Please think of something unique.

And the strafing thing doesn't count because of a little class called Napalmman.

[Shmeckie]

You're giving those two classes way too much credit. Why play Darkman1 when Mega/Proto are basically the same thing?

So you didn't read the post, then? Does Dark Man 1 have a shield and a charge shot? And since when were Mega and Proto's single buster shots that powerful? And when did they have a ramming attack?

Why would you play Darkman2 when you could just play Chargeman or Starman?

Again; did you read? Charge Man and Star Man do not block attacks with their hug attacks, nor does Star Man have any kind of movement booster, and Charge Man's speed up only serves as a quick jerk forward, not a temporary complete speed boost. And, again, Dark Man 2 cannot fire his shield the way Dark Man 4 can.

Please think of something unique.

I did, though for some reason you felt compelled to skim those parts. And if you didn't, I can only assume you felt the need to overgeneralize because... well I'm not quite sure.

[xColdxFusionx]

I don't think you're quite getting my argument.

Buster classes have been done before.
Hugging classes have been done before.
These are not unique. Come up with something that people will actually want to play.

Also

Charge Man's speed up only serves as a quick jerk forward

Try holding down the mouse button and THEN come talk to me.

[Shmeckie]

First of all, why are you so caustic about this? Were you molested by two people cosplaying as Dark Man 1 and 2 at some point in your younger years?! Also, when did you become the spokesperson for what everyone else wants to play?

Overgeneralizing to "buster class" and "hugging class" is goofy, and why you're so adamant about doing it is beyond me. Well over half the classes have a projectile, and only one other class uses this particular buster, which I am advocating making different than said class' buster. And no "buster class" has a ramming attack as its alt.

No hugging class has a speed boost as its alt. And no, not even Charge Man. Yes, you can hold the mouse button, but let me NOW remind you that this still yanks him forward no matter what you do, and his hugging attack has no defensive properties, nor does Star Man's.

And really, why even have Star Man operate the way he does when we have Charge Man, rite dood?

Oh, also italics italics italics I am making a POINT.

[Tesseractal]

No hugging class has a speed boost as its alt. And no, not even Charge Man. Yes, you can hold the mouse button, but let me NOW remind you that this still yanks him forward no matter what you do, and his hugging attack has no defensive properties, nor does Star Man's.

And really, why even have Star Man operate the way he does when we have Charge Man, rite dood?

He has defensive properties now! And he turns red to show it (you'll begin to notice plenty of more NES-similarities in the meantime). However, either version (the one you have now or not), Charge Man IS a "dashing hugger class". The mainfire IS his attack. I don't see how you get off calling it "just a speed boost"; it's his primary method of attack. It's his gimmick because as of now he's the only master who relies on contact damage to attack. LITERAL hugging, and not simply energy shielding like Star or Plant.

Star Man's capable of hugging but he can do just as much damage with a well-placed thrown shield. Charge Man can't. Star Man will have trouble with people on the ceiling. Charge Man won't. You're also falling into the overgeneralization of classes; you're not seeing the full range of Charge and Star's abilities.

The discussion's been lead a bit astray I think, as the main problem isn't similarities between Dark Man 2 and Charge or Star. It's between Dark Man 2 and 4. There's Dark Man 2 for reference. He's identical to Dark Man 4 - except without a buster, and he can't launch the shields. From what you're given, you have a class that would barely even attack at all. I think xColdx refers to him as a "hugger" because Dark Man 2 has no long-range attack when you fight him - he'd be forced into doing that.

Sure, you could always give Dark Man 2 something else and create a class, but I prefer to leave our imaginations' ideas to this mod's predecessor.

[Shmeckie]

No hugging class has a speed boost as its alt. And no, not even Charge Man. Yes, you can hold the mouse button, but let me NOW remind you that this still yanks him forward no matter what you do, and his hugging attack has no defensive properties, nor does Star Man's.

And really, why even have Star Man operate the way he does when we have Charge Man, rite dood?

He has defensive properties now! And he turns red to show it (you'll begin to notice plenty of more NES-similarities in the meantime). However, either version (the one you have now or not), Charge Man IS a "dashing hugger class". The mainfire IS his attack. I don't see how you get off calling it "just a speed boost"; it's his primary method of attack. It's his gimmick because as of now he's the only master who relies on contact damage to attack. LITERAL hugging, and not simply energy shielding like Star or Plant.

Er, he has coal shot, too. That was part of my point; he's not a total hugging class because he has a secondary. Cool addition to Charge Man, though!

But did you skim what I said? I didn't say Charge man has "just a speed boost," I said the speed boost of his alt simply amounts to yanking you forward while pressing mainfire, and what I'm proposing for Dark Man 2 is an ammo-consuming speed boost similar to when Skull Man successfully goes into hypermode.

Star Man's capable of hugging but he can do just as much damage with a well-placed thrown shield. Charge Man can't. Star Man will have trouble with people on the ceiling. Charge Man won't. You're also falling into the overgeneralization of classes; you're not seeing the full range of Charge and Star's abilities.

What are you talking about, I haven't done anything but address the overgeneralized terminology Cold here decided to place everyone in.

The discussion's been lead a bit astray I think, as the main problem isn't similarities between Dark Man 2 and Charge or Star. It's between Dark Man 2 and 4. There's Dark Man 2 for reference. He's identical to Dark Man 4 - except without a buster, and he can't launch the shields. From what you're given, you have a class that would barely even attack at all. I think xColdx refers to him as a "hugger" because Dark Man 2 has no long-range attack when you fight him - he'd be forced into doing that.

I've addressed this time and time again, and it's getting a mite bit frustrating that no one feels the need to read half of what I say. I'm going to say it all one more time, and I'm going to use bullet points to make it skim-friendly.

Dark Man 2
- Mainfire: Dark Man Wall. Would block projectiles if they hit the wall. In fact, with the lack of a buster, the reflective properties that were removed from Dark Man 4 could be given to Dark Man 2, since he doesn't have a buster to reflect back on himself, giving him a personal edge. Does hug damage, as well, possibly more than Dark Man 4 to compensate for the fact that he can't fire the shield (or shoot with it up, like Dark Man 4 can), but would consume ammo to balance it out.
- Altfire: Speed Up. If you remember, in the original game, as he took damage, he'd run at you faster. This can be implimented one of two ways: either have his speed increase as he loses health (more technically accurate, but cumbersome), or what I'm suggesting, where pressing altfire kicks in a temporary speed boost (in a similar vein to what Skull Man gets when he goes into hyper mode), at the expense of a chunk of his ammo, which would be shared with the shield. This adds strategy to using him, as you can use the boost to get in your opponent's face and tear them apart with the Dark Man Wall, but doing so will come with a risk, as you'll lose your Dark Man Wall sooner than had you not used it. Much riskier against high defense/HP enemies. Could also be used without the Wall as an escape tool.

OR, perhaps the speed boost could be switched on and off, and when switched on, it consumes ammo at the same rate as the Wall (or possibly slightly more), so leaving it and the Wall on at the same time would cause your ammo to plummet, making playing Dark Man 2 a game of balancing your speed-up and your barrier attack.
- Weakness: Crystal Eye. It went through his barrier, if I recall correctly.

Sure, you could always give Dark Man 2 something else and create a class, but I prefer to leave our imaginations' ideas to this mod's predecessor.

I understand that, but let's not forget there is a degree of that here, too. Bright Man never threw flash bangs, after all. But, I see where you're coming from, which is why my suggestion stays in the realm of what he did in-game.

[Chimera Man]

It's all up to the developers. Period.