I'm sliiiightly disapointed that Bright Man doesn't have some variation of Flash Stopper instead of light bulb throwing, but Dust Man makes up for it. :D
I'm sliiiightly disapointed that Bright Man doesn't have some variation of Flash Stopper instead of light bulb throwing, but Dust Man makes up for it. :DFlash Stopper is an item Bright Man receives when he is at 75%, 50%, and 25%. He can carry all three of them.
ACS Sourcecodes no longer on .pk3How pleasant.
ACS Sourcecodes no longer on .pk3
^Quote from: "Ice-IX"ACS Sourcecodes no longer on .pk3How pleasant.
And Bik, care to explain which classes break the balance? I really don't see any.
Shmeckie, I actually like the way Napalm was changed, since that's sort of how he acted in-game.
I'm afraid I might've skewed some people's perception of character balance, sadly. Poor Punk is gonna be on the recieving end of some unecissary nerfs due to a few folks' ire, now. :(No worry, this classes mod does not work that way. I posted general guidelines to why the classes are changed in the first post. If classes were nerfed based on such a subjective method such as the whims of a few players, it would likely do nothing but scare off competitive players and result in nerfs abroad.
(and I swear it feels like it takes one extra hit to kill with the thrown Screw Crusher, or maybe everyone was just using more high HP characters than usual last night).Punk's screws do 23 damage (primary weapon), a 5-hit kill against most masters, who generally have 100 HP.
The forced two shot makes it unnecessarily hard to be precise with [Napalm Man]. In YD's mod, if I get in a strafe war as Napalm Man, I can usually do pretty well and pick my shots as I want them. In this mod, the forced firing of two bombs causes me to lob a useless bomb that wastes time and ammo, and the cooldown afterward screws up my rhythm.I disagree here on two counts: The first being that the double shot is an example of rewarding precision. If he fired single shots, it'd be easier to use him - which I see as unnecessary because landing both bombs is powerful. The second being that firing single shots would make Napalm Man's bombs hardly different from Mega Man's - it goes against the "differentiate classes" idea. The previous mod had little intention of differentiating classes, which is one reason we have this one.
Now YD can't add any KY stuff and make his mod suck less.YD had his chance. YD decided to give you v4a.
No worry, this classes mod does not work that way. I posted general guidelines to why the classes are changed in the first post. If classes were nerfed based on such a subjective method such as the whims of a few players, it would likely do nothing but scare off competitive players and result in nerfs abroad.
Punk's screws do 23 damage (primary weapon), a 5-hit kill against most masters, who generally have 100 HP.
I disagree here on two counts: The first being that the double shot is an example of rewarding precision. If he fired single shots, it'd be easier to use him - which I see as unnecessary because landing both bombs is powerful. The second being that firing single shots would make Napalm Man's bombs hardly different from Mega Man's - it goes against the "differentiate classes" idea. The previous mod had little intention of differentiating classes, which is one reason we have this one.
The whole thing about Bright Man only having 3 Flash Stoppers per life is basically so in a DM situation, you can't lose 25 health, grab a big health, lose 25 more health and so on to get infinite Flash Stoppers.
Probably the best solution for this Classes madness is to have KY's and YD's Classes merge the best between the two, and work together to produce superior classes, instead of having people argue on both sides constantly, saying "NO, X'S CLASSES ARE BETTER, BECAUSE OF REASONS A, B, C, etc." Instead of constant arguing between the two, much more work could get done if everyone put away their petty reasons and worked together to make the well-sought for "perfect classes mod".
Which, if you ask me, is not as bad as the probable alternative, which is a major split in the community of what version of classes is better, tons of arguing etc etc. I can see where Yamato is coming from, but really. Both of you are grown men, is it really that hard to work together for the greater good?Quote from: "Sora"Probably the best solution for this Classes madness is to have KY's and YD's Classes merge the best between the two, and work together to produce superior classes, instead of having people argue on both sides constantly, saying "NO, X'S CLASSES ARE BETTER, BECAUSE OF REASONS A, B, C, etc." Instead of constant arguing between the two, much more work could get done if everyone put away their petty reasons and worked together to make the well-sought for "perfect classes mod".
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj107/MaxPower7137/derp.png)
Quote from: "Yellow Devil"Which, if you ask me, is not as bad as the probable alternative, which is a major split in the community of what version of classes is better, tons of arguing etc etc. I can see where Yamato is coming from, but really. Both of you are grown men, is it really that hard to work together for the greater good?Quote from: "Sora"Probably the best solution for this Classes madness is to have KY's and YD's Classes merge the best between the two, and work together to produce superior classes, instead of having people argue on both sides constantly, saying "NO, X'S CLASSES ARE BETTER, BECAUSE OF REASONS A, B, C, etc." Instead of constant arguing between the two, much more work could get done if everyone put away their petty reasons and worked together to make the well-sought for "perfect classes mod".
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj107/MaxPower7137/derp.png)
Impossible with Yellow Devil's way of "nerfing" classes. Merging the two versions of classes would make this conflict worse, not solve it.
Which, if you ask me, is not as bad as the probable alternative, which is a major split in the community of what version of classes is better, tons of arguing etc etc. I can see where Yamato is coming from, but really. Both of you are grown men, is it really that hard to work together for the greater good?
I honestly don't see how YD's method of nerfing classes is any worse than KY's method. YD simply hears how many people are complaining about X class, and gives him Y nerfs. So really, if you pepole would stop complaining so much about "OP" classes, classes wouldn't be nerfed into oblivion. R.I.P. Top Man. So really I see YD's method of nerfing much more responsive and generally better than someone who only listens to the testers and hardly checks what other people are saying on these here forums.
Thats his second way of nerfing classes. His main way is to play online games, and if he gets killed by the same class over and over again, he nerfs it. Nuff said.
WARNING: OPINIONS INCOMING
READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL j
I honestly don't find a superior difference in either KY or YD classes. No, I'm not saying "GUISE KY CLASSEZ IS NEW AND ISN'T AS GOOD!!!!11", or, "GUISE YD CLASSEZ HAZ SLOPPY PROGRAMATION!!!1111111"; I just don't see any major difference between the two that can have it safely be said that one is better than the other.
WARNING: OPINIONS INCOMING
READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL j
Quote from: "Yellow Devil"Which, if you ask me, is not as bad as the probable alternative, which is a major split in the community of what version of classes is better, tons of arguing etc etc. I can see where Yamato is coming from, but really. Both of you are grown men, is it really that hard to work together for the greater good?Quote from: "Sora"Probably the best solution for this Classes madness is to have KY's and YD's Classes merge the best between the two, and work together to produce superior classes, instead of having people argue on both sides constantly, saying "NO, X'S CLASSES ARE BETTER, BECAUSE OF REASONS A, B, C, etc." Instead of constant arguing between the two, much more work could get done if everyone put away their petty reasons and worked together to make the well-sought for "perfect classes mod".(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj107/MaxPower7137/derp.png)
I honestly don't find a superior difference in either KY or YD classes. No, I'm not saying "GUISE KY CLASSEZ IS NEW AND ISN'T AS GOOD!!!!11", or, "GUISE YD CLASSEZ HAZ SLOPPY PROGRAMATION!!!1111111"; I just don't see any major difference between the two that can have it safely be said that one is better than the other.
To say one is better than the other requires proof; and so far, on servers of either KY's classes or YD's classes, have I heard "Guys, these classes are perfect, nothing needs to be changed!" or "Guys, these classes are totally unplayable, why do they even exist?"Shmeckie has described Punk's class as "perfect" in this thread. Since you haven't heard it, allow me to share: This mod is my way of asking "Why do YD's classes exist?"
Currently, one mod being superior over the other is completely subjective; I find both fun to play for different reasonsI have proved that certain classes in this mod are more useful; and I can argue for more of them. Whether or not you find useful classes fun is subjective.
To compare the two mods of classes is completely pointless at this point in time, since neither are totally finished.Your opinion is also unfinished. If I followed your logic, it would make both yours and Savior's opinions "completely pointless."
Both YD's classes and KY's classes are equally unbalanced Complete lie, KY's is less balanced. Aheuaehua. The only difference is one of them is new, so people automatically think it's better than the previous. The main things people bring up about the mods are the small things, including but not limited too: Gravityman Sky walking and Quint being slightly faster on sakugarne.This appears to be an attack on the community. I believe the community can make judgments regardless of the time proximity; and you are passing an unfair judgment. There's a problem here: You've stated that the mods have only one difference (time), and yet listed multiple differences between the mods immediately afterword! I will also that: The entire mod is made up of "small things". And it's small things that cause a huge difference: Being able to throw Search Snakes versus not being able to means Snake Man becomes suddenly more useful. Trying to marginalize these differences suggests inexperience in your judgment. Balance is subjective and you cannot "prove" it; rendering any arguments of it pointless. Calling both mods "equally unbalanced" is rather implausible, however.
Quint can still kill effectively in YD's versionLess effectively. Both the Mega Buster and Needle Cannon can kill people "effectively". Needle Cannon is more effective. You cannot argue against that. (You can nerf Needle Cannon, though.) Are they "balanced"? I do not wish to argue over such a vague term. Needle Cannon kills people faster. It's more effective. By the same token, I have already compared from YD's to KY's: Quint, Star Man, and Crystal Man. KY's is more effective each time. Generally, Yamato's counterparts will prove more effective. Hard Man. Yamato Man. Dust Man. Punk. Yamato's mod has more examples of more effective classes.
and Gravity sky walking is more of an aesthetic than actual balancing/changing. These small things lead people to believe they emulate the games better, and therefor BE better. This however is not true, as making the RMs exactly like the games but with worse balance than a previous version that was less canon, but more balanced is bad.Are people not allowed to have preferences? You seem to be attacking the community, and not the mod. If people like playing as classes that better emulate the games, that's a preference. Balance is a preference. It cannot be argued. You are simply attacking the community for their tastes. If you think that your preferences are more true (e.g. outweigh) the community's, I will assure you that your mod will also be only preferred by you.
If people are told enough that their version is better, they will start to believe this no matter what.Again, this appears to be an attack on the community. I believe the community is capable of forming their own preferences! If I did not, I wouldn't have provided them with an alternative. But there's a bit of hypocrisy here: You appear to be the only one "telling" anyone which mod they should prefer. I am simply telling them which mod will let them play as more useful classes.
Either way, both mods are equally fun, KY's emulating the games more, making you feel like you're playing as the masters better, and YD's having better balance.Balance is a preference. Only the latter can be argued.
I also applaud KY for having the balls to release an unapproved changed version of a mod publicly.[10/7/11 2:40:20 AM] Ivory: Well. The MM8BDM community is a tree branch of the Doom Community, where stuff like this is a commonality. Generally I'm fine with it so long as credit is given where credit is due.
Forced to shoot more than I want to, and the fact that he fires two consecutively feels awkward and screws up my timing and rhythm, and uses ammo needlessly. I'd prefer if he either fired one at a time, or both at once, but the one-two punch just feels unintuitive.
Argue with Roc and you've got to run the full marathon.Other person refusing to rebut argument due to confusing post/confusing arguments =/= winning argument. He just doesn't supply straightforward responses, which is essential to arguing. The other person needs to actually understand you to see if there's things wrong with your argument.
It's why he usually ends up winning :ugeek:
Quote from: "Shade Guy"Argue with Roc and you've got to run the full marathon.Other person refusing to rebut argument due to confusing post/confusing arguments =/= winning argument. He just doesn't supply straightforward responses, which is essential to arguing. The other person needs to actually understand you to see if there's things wrong with your argument.
It's why he usually ends up winning :ugeek:
YD takes classes that are effective in their original forms and makes them ineffective. King Yamato's Mod is a result of Yellow Devil having zero input over the classes. Is desiring effective classes a "petty reason" or a "constant argument"? Does a grown man feel inclined to diminish the work of everything he touches? History repeats itself; people are not inclined toward change. If you want to visualize the results of a merge, do not base it on your petty ideals such as "greater good" or "grown men". Look at what has already happened with respect to YD taking control of other people's classes, and you generally find the same result: a diminish in quality.That's it? You're unwilling to take YD's management of Classes seriously because of you being blindly fixated on what he's done in the past? Things change, Roc. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, sometimes not at all, sure, but focusing solely on what's happened previously just results in you looking like a blind shut-in, even by my standards. I expected better from someone such as you.
Using the empirical examples above, I would reason that YD's mod is incapable of improving under YD's control. If you really saw where King Yamato is coming from, you'll see that King Yamato has no incentive to attach himself to a parasite.
For each gem I find in this mod I find an equally major flaw in another class.While I understand this is not the point of your post, it would really help to clarify further on which classes have flaws and what they are.
I understood it fine...after reading the entire post 40 times. It's also trying to cope with his insults as well as his thinking he's much better than you. It's annoying as hell, really :l
And since when is pointing out a flaw in how some people think a bad thing?Quote from: "Bikdark"I understood it fine...after reading the entire post 40 times. It's also trying to cope with his insults as well as his thinking he's much better than you. It's annoying as hell, really :l
There are no words to describe how ironic this statement is.
Take a look in the mirror, bro. Your entire argument was one big shot at the community.
Well, first of all, this mod is great and, in my opinion, better than YD's, however, I do have some things to complain about:(click to show/hide)
Manibogi, 28 isn't divisible by 3.
You can wait a second and fire a third after firing two though.
Also, I think he should fire 3 rounds of missiles, not 2 stop......1.Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
That noise that he makes?It is hilarious, but it's impossible to sneak behind your opponent beacuse of it.
I thought it was hilarious.
IN OTHER NEWS Why isn't it compressed into a .pk3? I can't play it.THIS. I didn't know how to play it until I found out that you could upload other files besides .wads and .pk3's.
And since when is pointing out a flaw in how some people think a bad thing?Let's take a look at what you actually said, shall we?
The only difference is one of them is new, so people automatically think it's better than the previous.
These small things lead people to believe they emulate the games better, and therefor BE better.
If people are told enough that their version is better, they will start to believe this no matter what.The thing is, you treat us as if we're sheep that don't know a good thing when we see it. The problem with this is that we do. Sure, they both have their perks and downsides, but most people generally agree KY's classes are better by a small margin.
Give it some consideration instead of being a YD fanboy. You might like it more than you think.Actually, cold, I've been playing KY's classes a lot, online and off. I've played enough to know which one I like more. If I was just a YD fanboy, I would've been pushed more toward KY classes as soon as Ken backstabbed me and kicked me off the team. This however was not the case, I still enjoy YD's classes over KY's.
The pk3 is in the zip.It wasn't there when I first downloaded it. All I saw were all the files scattered all over the place.
Wierd, it works fine fer meh...Maybe it was re-realeased, who knows.
Exactly, you think we are dumb and we can't distinguish a good thing when we see it, but we do, and not only can we do that, but we can also distinguish a bad thing when we see it, just like I did and just like many people did.Quote from: "Bikdark"The only difference is one of them is new, so people automatically think it's better than the previous.Quote from: "Bikdark"These small things lead people to believe they emulate the games better, and therefor BE better.Quote from: "Bikdark"If people are told enough that their version is better, they will start to believe this no matter what.The thing is, you treat us as if we're sheep that don't know a good thing when we see it. The problem with this is that we do.
If I was just a YD fanboy, I would've been pushed more toward KY classes as soon as Ken backstabbed me and kicked me off the team. This however was not the case, I still enjoy YD's classes over KY's.
As for firing his barrier, maybe if it was somewhat aimable it would be better, like if it fired off in whatever direction the two pillars were facing at the time you pressed the button.
Figured I should bring this up...It's good to see that people agree with me for once.Why isn't Dark Man 3 in this?
Dark Man is largely useless at this point. His shots fire too slowly to justify their damage, his barrier reflects his own shots, and when his barrier is fired, it's fired in an impractical direction (directly to his left and right, where his opponents will rarely be). If his slow blaster is supposed to be used in conjunction with his shield, the reflection issue needs to be resolved. As for firing his barrier, maybe if it was somewhat aimable it would be better, like if it fired off in whatever direction the two pillars were facing at the time you pressed the button.
Figured I should bring this up...
Dark Man is largely useless at this point. His shots fire too slowly to justify their damage, his barrier reflects his own shots, and when his barrier is fired, it's fired in an impractical direction (directly to his left and right, where his opponents will rarely be). If his slow blaster is supposed to be used in conjunction with his shield, the reflection issue needs to be resolved. As for firing his barrier, maybe if it was somewhat aimable it would be better, like if it fired off in whatever direction the two pillars were facing at the time you pressed the button.
Personally, I think it would make sense if his shield DID reflect others' shots. That's why its called a SHIELD.The problem is, it reflects Dark Man's OWN shots.
Quote from: "TheDoc"Personally, I think it would make sense if his shield DID reflect others' shots. That's why its called a SHIELD.The problem is, it reflects Dark Man's OWN shots.
it's fired in an impractical direction (directly to his left and right, where his opponents will rarely be).
This mod is an entire revision of the Classes Mod, made by King Yamato and Chimera Man. All classes have been coded more efficiently, and nearly all classes have received edits to their attacks, resulting in either power or ammo changes, with some classes having entirely different attacks. All robot masters from the NES titles are present, including Doc Robot and Dark Man. The major changes behind these attacks follow basic guidelines: Can the class be accurate to his game-counterpart? Is this class differentiated from other classes (not a clone)? Does this class give have some limits on his ability (he does not give "free" or limitless attacks)? Hopefully these guidelines will explain the ideas behind most of the changes. If you do not understand, I can explain any changes from the previous class mod myself.
Download King Yamato's Classes Mod here. (http://www.wadhost.fathax.com/files/Classes-KYvNESFinal.pk3)
For those familiar, this is the complete / first release of the King Yamato's Classes Mod, which was distributed as V5X / V5Y. I would like to thank all of the testers of this mod - I consider anyone who played V5Y a tester. Particularly my co-hosters, Ryuta and Cup Noodles.
Major Changelog from V5Y:(click to show/hide)
Yea on the server Mess and I were testing that out and yea its when you are holding a bomb and they die before they toss it, sometimes only you can see it, other times everyone can. Seems like a infinite number can be spawned that way, I had made 5 and Mess could only see 2 or 3 of them.
Because that totally wouldn't be overpowered.
TURN. DOWN. THE GEMINI CLONES'. HEALTH.At the moment, Gemini clones have 300 HP. The reasoning is that Gemini clones can't regain health, they don't dodge like human players and so they "sponge" damage in effect. It can be toned down. (I've been unsatisfied with how difficult it is to kill clones, for a while.) Thanks for the bug notice. (The Phantom Bomb glitch has also been noted; thanks Sword.)
This crap is ridiculous. Who thought that was a good idea?! Seriously, I want to know the reasoning for this.
Also; encountered a glitch where Metal Man and Snake Man had infinite mainfire ammo. Not sure how.
Will you be changing the yellow used for shading most classes' HUDs? The color Doom decides to use is incredibly ugly, and it looks much better if you shade it with an orange, a la Napalm Man.
I don't know if they will be welcome, though...
First of all, I love this Flame Man, and much kudos to you guys for how you set him up! He's as picture-perfect as Punk is! Considering he was my favorite Robot Master, period, when I was a kid, I'm very happy about this!Shmeckie knows what the fuck he's talking about.
Quote from: "Chimera Man"I don't know if they will be welcome, though...
They why make those changes?
I do have to say this: Heat Shield/Tackle needs a nerf. People are just exploiting that shit for free frags. Tone down the damage, the hitstun on the shield, or make it take longer to recharge.
When he starts up he is immune to damage and I think he remains immune throughout the charge.
First of all, I love this Flame Man, and much kudos to you guys for how you set him up! He's as picture-perfect as Punk is! Considering he was my favorite Robot Master, period, when I was a kid, I'm very happy about this!Unfortunately, Flame Man's alt is bugged in this version. The result of the bug meaning it's much easier to hit with alt-fire than it's supposed to... Making him OP. The next version has fixed this bug, so Flame Man's alt may seem more difficult to hit with. No change on his damage output, though. If you can aim the alt, he should play exactly the same.
Also, I'm thinking you might want to tone down the range on Shadow Man's smoke bomb. As of now, it has a bigger range than Bright Man's flash bang, and considering blinding people should be more Bright Man's thing than Shadow Man's, that's something to consider.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"First of all, I love this Flame Man, and much kudos to you guys for how you set him up! He's as picture-perfect as Punk is! Considering he was my favorite Robot Master, period, when I was a kid, I'm very happy about this!Unfortunately, Flame Man's alt is bugged in this version. The result of the bug meaning it's much easier to hit with alt-fire than it's supposed to... Making him OP. The next version has fixed this bug, so Flame Man's alt may seem more difficult to hit with. No change on his damage output, though. If you can aim the alt, he should play exactly the same.
Also, I'm thinking you might want to tone down the range on Shadow Man's smoke bomb. As of now, it has a bigger range than Bright Man's flash bang, and considering blinding people should be more Bright Man's thing than Shadow Man's, that's something to consider.
Shadow Man doesn't have a second weapon any more (meaning no flashbang or invisibility). Just his original attacks, Shurikens and Dash (which are unchanged). In response he'll have a bit more defense and won't die as easily.
I'm not exactly sure what causes it but when I was playing as Top Man on the server last night, there was a bug with his primary that after he was supposed to stop spinning, I kept spinning with control of my movement (not much since the camera was spinning) with the topspin damage still active until someone hit me out of it, very dizzying as well lol.
HUDs updated. :geek:
Why does the stupid link give a crapload of files that aren't compiled into a wad?
Why does that link have to be broken?! I want to play this soooo badly!
My avatar says my exact feelings on the matter.
Dark Man 1 is purely too bland.
Dark Man 2 is a worse Dark Man 4...
...But we will consider Dark Man 3. He has something worthy going on.
Gravityman goes WAAAAAY too slow when on the ceiling. Im practically a sitting duck and too easily killed. I dont see why theres should be such a big difference in speed.
I think you're being a bit too dismissive, here.
Dark Man 1 and 2 had one attack, AND they sped up. Despite the fact that he doesn't have "charge" in his name, Dark Man 1's M.O. for his speed increase was to ram into you. He would even turn to chase you if you jumped over him. Dark Man 2's was to, in a similar fashion, hit you with the shield.
You say it wouldn't be "worth it," but I bet the folks would have fun with those 2 classes if you put some thought into them and added them in. Giving them their individual attacks (Dark Man Buster and Dark Man Wall, respectively) with minor tweaks to seperate them from Dark man 4's versions, and giving them an ammo-consuming speed boooster alt which would have different uses for each of them (Charge Kick-esque ramming attack for Dark Man 1, temporary speed increase for Dark Man 2).
Dark Man 2 would be seperated from similar classes because he can't fire his shield. He'd be a pure "chase you down and win with hug damage" class. Unlike Star Man, for instance, he can't shoot his sheild forward or anything like that. He'd be a pure rushdown character, giving him a disadvantage at range, which the defensive properties of the Dark Man Wall would help him overcome, so that he's not toally screwed. Dark Man 1 would be a powerful character in straightaways, possesing a powerful blaster and ramming attack, giving him a better range of attack than the likes of Charge Man, but with a greater lack of movement. In wide-open areas he'd have trouble, but if he catches you in a narrow passageway, he can turn the tables real quick.
You're giving those two classes way too much credit. Why play Darkman1 when Mega/Proto are basically the same thing?
Why would you play Darkman2 when you could just play Chargeman or Starman?
Please think of something unique.I did, though for some reason you felt compelled to skim those parts. And if you didn't, I can only assume you felt the need to overgeneralize because... well I'm not quite sure.
Charge Man's speed up only serves as a quick jerk forward
No hugging class has a speed boost as its alt. And no, not even Charge Man. Yes, you can hold the mouse button, but let me NOW remind you that this still yanks him forward no matter what you do, and his hugging attack has no defensive properties, nor does Star Man's.He has defensive properties now! And he turns red to show it (you'll begin to notice plenty of more NES-similarities in the meantime). However, either version (the one you have now or not), Charge Man IS a "dashing hugger class". The mainfire IS his attack. I don't see how you get off calling it "just a speed boost"; it's his primary method of attack. It's his gimmick because as of now he's the only master who relies on contact damage to attack. LITERAL hugging, and not simply energy shielding like Star or Plant.
And really, why even have Star Man operate the way he does when we have Charge Man, rite dood?
Quote from: "Shmeckie"No hugging class has a speed boost as its alt. And no, not even Charge Man. Yes, you can hold the mouse button, but let me NOW remind you that this still yanks him forward no matter what you do, and his hugging attack has no defensive properties, nor does Star Man's.He has defensive properties now! And he turns red to show it (you'll begin to notice plenty of more NES-similarities in the meantime). However, either version (the one you have now or not), Charge Man IS a "dashing hugger class". The mainfire IS his attack. I don't see how you get off calling it "just a speed boost"; it's his primary method of attack. It's his gimmick because as of now he's the only master who relies on contact damage to attack. LITERAL hugging, and not simply energy shielding like Star or Plant.
And really, why even have Star Man operate the way he does when we have Charge Man, rite dood?
Star Man's capable of hugging but he can do just as much damage with a well-placed thrown shield. Charge Man can't. Star Man will have trouble with people on the ceiling. Charge Man won't. You're also falling into the overgeneralization of classes; you're not seeing the full range of Charge and Star's abilities.
The discussion's been lead a bit astray I think, as the main problem isn't similarities between Dark Man 2 and Charge or Star. It's between Dark Man 2 and 4. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCzh8unw7ow) There's Dark Man 2 for reference. He's identical to Dark Man 4 - except without a buster, and he can't launch the shields. From what you're given, you have a class that would barely even attack at all. I think xColdx refers to him as a "hugger" because Dark Man 2 has no long-range attack when you fight him - he'd be forced into doing that.
Sure, you could always give Dark Man 2 something else and create a class, but I prefer to leave our imaginations' ideas to this mod's predecessor.
Er, he has coal shot, too. That was part of my point; he's not a total hugging class because he has a secondary. Cool addition to Charge Man, though!
Coal shot is somewhat inaccurate AoE damage within ~ 64 units of Chargeman that costs half his bar. It's hardly relevant a good percentage of the time.
But did you skim what I said? I didn't say Charge man has "just a speed boost," I said the speed boost of his alt simply amounts to yanking you forward while pressing mainfire, and what I'm proposing for Dark Man 2 is an ammo-consuming speed boost similar to when Skull Man successfully goes into hypermode.
Which people will use the same way they use the charge. Basically, nothing different, just a different way of doing it.
...Although part of my complaint was that I thought you meant "dash" when you really meant "haste". Please try to be specific when you say things like this...
What are you talking about, I haven't done anything but address the overgeneralized terminology Cold here decided to place everyone in.
I'm generalizing because your descriptions made them sound like the same exact freaking thing.
I've addressed this time and time again, and it's getting a mite bit frustrating that no one feels the need to read half of what I say. I'm going to say it all one more time, and I'm going to use bullet points to make it skim-friendly.
Alright, maybe I can see something good in this.
Dark Man 2
- Mainfire: Dark Man Wall. Would block projectiles if they hit the wall. In fact, with the lack of a buster, the reflective properties that were removed from Dark Man 4 could be given to Dark Man 2, since he doesn't have a buster to reflect back on himself, giving him a personal edge. Does hug damage, as well, possibly more than Dark Man 4 to compensate for the fact that he can't fire the shield (or shoot with it up, like Dark Man 4 can), but would consume ammo to balance it out.
It's not like the reflection actually helped Darkman4 much anyway. You'll have to make the shields a bit bigger to get it to work.
- Altfire: Speed Up. If you remember, in the original game, as he took damage, he'd run at you faster. This can be implimented one of two ways: either have his speed increase as he loses health (more technically accurate, but cumbersome), or what I'm suggesting, where pressing altfire kicks in a temporary speed boost (in a similar vein to what Skull Man gets when he goes into hyper mode), at the expense of a chunk of his ammo, which would be shared with the shield. This adds strategy to using him, as you can use the boost to get in your opponent's face and tear them apart with the Dark Man Wall, but doing so will come with a risk, as you'll lose your Dark Man Wall sooner than had you not used it. Much riskier against high defense/HP enemies. Could also be used without the Wall as an escape tool.
This may be my cynical side speaking, but this will basically be used as Chargeman's main fire, minus the innate radius damage.
OR, perhaps the speed boost could be switched on and off, and when switched on, it consumes ammo at the same rate as the Wall (or possibly slightly more), so leaving it and the Wall on at the same time would cause your ammo to plummet, making playing Dark Man 2 a game of balancing your speed-up and your barrier attack.
Basically like Chargeman's charge meets Iceman's jets IMO.
- Weakness: Crystal Eye. It went through his barrier, if I recall correctly.
k
My thoughts: OK, I might have short-changed this class a little, but it still looks pretty similar to Chargeman to me.
I understand that, but let's not forget there is a degree of that here, too. Bright Man never threw flash bangs, after all. But, I see where you're coming from, which is why my suggestion stays in the realm of what he did in-game.
I still say we should make 1, 2, and 4 the same class, but that's just me. *shrug*
Coal shot is somewhat inaccurate AoE damage within ~ 64 units of Chargeman that costs half his bar. It's hardly relevant a good percentage of the time.
...Although part of my complaint was that I thought you meant "dash" when you really meant "haste". Please try to be specific when you say things like this...
I'm generalizing because your descriptions made them sound like the same exact freaking thing.
This may be my cynical side speaking, but this will basically be used as Chargeman's main fire, minus the innate radius damage.
Basically like Chargeman's charge meets Iceman's jets IMO.
It's all up to the developers. Period. :geek:
Quote from: "Chimera Man"It's all up to the developers. Period. :geek:
That's a little condescending, don'tcha think?
QuoteBasically like Chargeman's charge meets Iceman's jets IMO.
ICEMAN'S JETS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! [/Morbo]
I do believe you're reading too much into commenting on one's comment, my good man.
I wouldn't have to be so "aggressive" if I didn't have to keep repeating and clarifying myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
Where is KY anyway?
Quote from: "TheBladeRoden"Where is KY anyway?
He left, I think.
Just want to say this update is fantastic. High marks all around to all you guys! I absolutely love this new Doc Robot; he's so interesting, and allows for so many strategies and options! Punk is still picture-perfect, and I love that you actually did add in Pharaoh Man's charge animation!All for the fans, Shmeckie. ;)
I like the new Napalm Man...except that new torpedo move. It seems better for annoying people than any practical applications. Maybe I just need to sit down with him a little more.Stand still for recharging the torpedoes, then start rapid-firing them as you get close to your target; quickly fire the Napalm Bombs while up close to terminate them. :geek:
Elec Man's new alt seems too strong considering how easy it is to hit with it.Hmm. A bit.
There's tons of little touches and aesthetical bits I could compliment you for, but that would take forever. So I'll generalize and say you guys did a bang-up job!Thank ye, Beed and Shmeckie! :mrgreen:
I appear to be crashing after completing Gutsman's Stage in the Campaign.
No idea what the source is.
-EDITS:
It also crashes on Elec Man's and Bubble Man's Stage.
I now have reason to believe Sniper Joe is causing it.
Yes, I'm pretty sure the game will crash if a round ends with any of the 'new' bots (eg. Auto, Roll, Darkman 1-3, etc.)
They aren't, but there are special weapons made just for those bots.We are really going to find what is the source of this problem and fix it. :?
This crash bug is gonna be a really killer to any hopes of KY Class Bot Apoc this version. :(
How'd you get the Dark Shield? I tried give dark shield but it didn't work, I also tried using cheats to get the machine buster(Darkman3's weapon) but it didn't work either. All I could get was SniperJoeBuster and Darkman1Buster
Quick question.Punk, for some reason, goes on a shorter distance on Kenkoru's server. It's probably a DM flag or something alike.
While I do adore this version of Punk, something wierd occasionally happens. Sometimes, when I do the cannonball, he goes a shorter distance, which I prefer (that's picture perfect Punk right there), but sometimes he goes full YD Class distance. While that's not a problem, per se, it's not the shorter distance that works better for me. Is this roll distance thing intentional? if so, what determines it? If not, what's the actual distance supposed to be, and what's causing him to travel the other distance?
Dark Man 3 is the wrong color.Dark Man 3's colors does not exist on the game's palette. Therefore, the closest colors are Megaman's dark blue and a darker light blue.
Wait a minute... there were bot only classes?! :shock: How did you manage that?Not even I know; unfortunately, they are crashing the game on the results screen... somehow.
...Any chance of making that shorter distance a permanent thing? :D
When Heat Man begins and ends his Heat Tackle, for a brief moment he turns into Mega Man.
Was this bug mentioned?
Good points there. Crash, though... He can fire 2 bombs for a reason. 3 would be better, but the basic idea is to fire them at the floor, and predict the opponents movements. His jump is to enable him to be as hard to hit as possible, and the bombs' pierce does about a much as a centaur shot... He seems fine, except for the 2-3 bombs thing; 3 bombs allows triangulation...[/quote/]
Come to think of it, the bombs' explosion damage could use a small buff...
Enough to take out Punk in 2 blasts...
The idea is that Crashman becomes a thinking man's class.
What's happened here? All of the zheights for classes taller than Mega Man have been changed to reflect their height difference. Ballade's a little taller than Mega Man, so his HUD has been raised so he doesn't appear to fire from his chest (he fires from at arm level now, and so does Centaur). This technically gives a more accurate appearance, but how do you feel about playing at different zheights?
I really complement you on dust man, thank you for making one of my favorite robot masters so awesome, I just ask that you make him jump a little bit higher.I don't mind him jumping a bit higher, but I hate it that Dust Man can get health from sucking in attacks. It's almost impossible to get past that sucking ability to do damage. I think you should make Dust Man's sucking ability suck you in at a great rate and to do a lot of damage; kinda like YD's Magnet Pull instead of sucking attacks and getting HEALTH from the ATTACKS because COME ON, it really gets ANNOYING!!!
Quote from: "MegaLAD1514"I really complement you on dust man, thank you for making one of my favorite robot masters so awesome, I just ask that you make him jump a little bit higher.I don't mind him jumping a bit higher, but I hate it that Dust Man can get health from sucking in attacks. It's almost impossible to get past that sucking ability to do damage. I think you should make Dust Man's sucking ability suck you in at a great rate and to do a lot of damage; kinda like YD's Magnet Pull instead of sucking attacks and getting HEALTH from the ATTACKS because COME ON, it really gets ANNOYING!!!
Quote from: "Fyone"Quote from: "MegaLAD1514"I really complement you on dust man, thank you for making one of my favorite robot masters so awesome, I just ask that you make him jump a little bit higher.I don't mind him jumping a bit higher, but I hate it that Dust Man can get health from sucking in attacks. It's almost impossible to get past that sucking ability to do damage. I think you should make Dust Man's sucking ability suck you in at a great rate and to do a lot of damage; kinda like YD's Magnet Pull instead of sucking attacks and getting HEALTH from the ATTACKS because COME ON, it really gets ANNOYING!!!
No, If he does that than he will be as cheap as in yd's magnet man and ruin his game play
Guts man should have an earthquake too
I really didn't find Proto to be cheap. He takes Double damage like in MM9 and 10.
For Dust Man: He's not invincible all around! Try attacking him up close or from behind. He recovers ammo faster than he regains HP, so don't worry about feeding him too much.For Dust Man: I already knew that, but I still think his sucking is overpowered.
For Skull Man: Rockman hacks are not an influence on this mod. (Neither is Team Fortress, by the way!) Skull Man can recharge his barrier by either standing still (like in the game) OR it recharges automatically when he takes damage.
In recent news, an old game mode is making a comeback...(click to show/hide)
I really enjoyed playing the ky classes and I am very sad to see people not hosting this mode over yd classes.
I just got an idea. It sorta nerfs Guts Man by design, but on the other hand, it does make him more true to the NES game. The idea is this:
When he uses his alt, he doesn't pick up a Guts Block, a Guts Block falls from the cieling, and he can't move until he catches it. Like in the first game.
Then give him the Guts Stomp.
Maybe if he had the Guts Stomp, AND had to wait for the rock to drop, or couldn't Guts Stomp if he was holding a rock...
Y'know who's straight Underpowered? Napalm Man. Oh my god please buff the guy, he's too jawesome to be this weak. RoF's too low, ammo consumption's too high, damage output's too low, he's literally too weak in every concievable way that one can be too weak.
And that torpedo thing is just useless outside of trolling. I have literally tried every strategy I can think of to use that weapon in a practcal manner, but in the end its only real use is to stand twenty feet away from a mosh pit and spam it, hoping to steal a kill.
There are no plans to buff Napalm Man... Skull Man's hyper mode has been replaced.
All this calling of UP Napalm Man is complete and utter absurdity.
I was on your server just today playing as Napalm Man, and I could easily hold my own against every opponent. You really must realize that Napalm is not a "charge in with guns ablazing" class, he's an artillery position- in other words, better at long to mid-range combat. His Napalm Bombs are much different from YD's: they bounce farther, two are sent out at a time, and they richochet more. Shade Guy was absolutely right- you need to use the enviroment to your adavntage. The Head Missile is really for suprise attacks and mid-range combat. The missile is damn slow, yes, but because it is backing up KY's purpose- making the classes play as in the games. The torpedoes regenerate as you stand still- I don't know if you knew this or not, but even if you did, it only justifies my point. You're mainly supposed to stand still with him, and pick people off with Napalm Bombs if they are in range, and if not, stun them with the torps and fire the Head Missile. I think you've been playing too much with Punk (a close-combat class), and trying your strategy for him with Napalm Man- which is what he isn't exactly made for. The only justifiable arguement you make for him is making his RoF a tad faster, and even then, I don't agree too much with that.
Napalm Man is a class that has a high learning curve for a high reward. Try my strategy and come back to me.
Not gonna respond to this point-by-point, as my point was pretty much made in-game earlier today.
Napalm Man, as he stands, is only good for kill-stealing. Particularly when it comes to throwing Napalm Bombs into a crowd. When he becomes anyone's target, or finds himself the focus of any actual brawling, he gets hammered. Especially anyone with fast movement who can literally run circles around him (as it stands, he simply cannot take on Blizzard Man, or Wind Man when he's flying. At all).
He can stand still all he wants, but the second he starts hitting people, anyone with a brain is gonna turn around and pick him off for an easy kill, forcing him to run away and throw out his ineffective artillery in a desperate game of keep-away.
Not gonna respond to this point-by-point, as my point was pretty much made in-game earlier today.
Napalm Man, as he stands, is only good for kill-stealing. Particularly when it comes to throwing Napalm Bombs into a crowd. When he becomes anyone's target, or finds himself the focus of any actual brawling, he gets hammered. Especially anyone with fast movement who can literally run circles around him (as it stands, he simply cannot take on Blizzard Man, or Wind Man when he's flying. At all).
He can stand still all he wants, but the second he starts hitting people, anyone with a brain is gonna turn around and pick him off for an easy kill, forcing him to run away and throw out his ineffective artillery in a desperate game of keep-away.
Not gonna respond to this point-by-point, as my point was pretty much made in-game earlier today.
Napalm Man, as he stands, is only good for kill-stealing. Particularly when it comes to throwing Napalm Bombs into a crowd. When he becomes anyone's target, or finds himself the focus of any actual brawling, he gets hammered. Especially anyone with fast movement who can literally run circles around him (as it stands, he simply cannot take on Blizzard Man, or Wind Man when he's flying. At all).
Anyone fast will be nailed by the torpedoes, provided if someone did hang around enough to grab plenty and that's not a hard task to do. I've done this plenty where I charge in (sounds counter-intuitive to Napalm's mid range role) releasin' both torpedoes and the main at the same time. This results in the unlucky foe to be stun locked for the 9 torpedoes while gettin' hammered by the mainfire. Good luck gettin' out of that mess. The awkward position to get both bombs to land and the slow fire rate makes it tricky to be super effective all the time.
Can someone make a playable "Auto" class? :|
Yes, I would like to see an Auto class too."Please,hear the prayers of the poor people" :cry:
Oh, also, Bubble Man's bubbles don't fire in things like high snow and other waist-high environments. Might wanna fix that.This problem also occurs in vanilla, as the bubbles spawn inside the snow and therefore are destroyed as soon as they spawn. It also occurs in YD classes, so go figure...
The difference is Stone and Toad can hold their own in small DMs. They don't get eaten alive the second the situation isn't optimal for them. Napalm Man does, and it really doesn't make sense to leave a class so grossly underpowered just because someone found a way to score a few frags with him. It's not a matter of style--I can do well with most of the classes, regardless of playstyle. Napalm Man is just terrible in general, and it's a shame people would rather make excuses and come up with hypothetical scenarios where he should do well instead of addressing the problem of him being nearly unwinnably bad.OLO
Plus it pains me to not be able to use one of my all-time favorite Robot Masters because he's so... well, pathetic...!
If you find you can't do well with Napalm, don't use him. Other people can use him effectively- you can't. You're a little outnumbered as to who does and doesn't want him changed. Most of us find him perfectly fine.
I've been able to do quite well with him in most matches. I usually place 2nd and 3rd when on your server with him- and I've never been a good player. I'm quite certain better players than me have done well with him.
He's a mid/long-range combatant. That's what he was, is, and always will be.
In MM8BDM, there simply isn't enough time to switch classes based on what's happening because it's always changing. It's simply too fast paced.Code: [Select]BIND X "PLAYERCLASS NAPALMMAN"Allows you to select your class instantly with a key. Adding ;kill to the bind allows you to switch immediately following the class selection.
...Well, fine. Napalm Man is pretty darn terrible. I'm not even that great of a player, but I know when a class doesn't do very well.
These are the changes I'd like for Napalm Man, if they're implemented.
-Give a damage buff to the torps (maybe five damage) so they aren't useless. Keep the stunlock, and maybe make them regenerate slower to prevent spamming.
-A damage buff for the Napalm Bombs would be fine. Bump it up to about 15 or 20 damage for one considering all the insane richochets they do.
His RoF and his ammo consumption would be fine, considering, with my changes, he'd be a 3HKO if he lands three critical hits. I think that would be an OK middle point that we could agree on...
And I totally agree with the Tomahawk thing. I was playing on Shmeckie's server (as I usually do), and whenever someone played as Tomahawk Man, it was very rare that they didn't at least rank 3rd.
Tomahawk is Tomahax
Napalm? UP? news to me.
>spam 0.5 damage shoulderrockets
>Pseudostunlock to your death
>Stand Still and DIE
>get KILLED more
>Repeat, and get called a camper
>End up in last place
This goes beyond whining from the likes of Bik and the occasional childish d-bag who pops in and whines "not OP" whenever they get fragged. There's generally a problem when a class like Yamatoman can kill you without breaking a sweat. That comment about me was a tad rude as well.
Tomahawk has a rapid-fire 3HKO, high running speed, etc. He's not just overpowered, he's overboard.
So are tons of other classes in the mod.
Such as Metalman.
You don't need to aim the Tomahawks if Tomahawk Man is in your face, which he often is. Especially in large groups. Nerfing the Tomahawks is the safest way to go about handling him.
I get where you're coming from (it's the same reason I want to see Napalm toned up). It might help with his OP problem if they just toned his mainfire from a 3HKO to a 4HKO, and slowed down his running speed a tad so he can't get in your face. and make the _HKO thing a non-issue.Quote from: "Shmeckie"You don't need to aim the Tomahawks if Tomahawk Man is in your face, which he often is. Especially in large groups. Nerfing the Tomahawks is the safest way to go about handling him.
Sure, but the fast-reload could still be slightly slowed down, for reasons already stated. Tomahawkman is one of my favorite classes, so I'd like to see it balanced.
Ah, you seem to have had an issue downloading the file.
The download link on the first post should be to download the PK3, but it might forcibly change to a ZIP. If it does, save the .ZIP/RAR/whatever file to your MM8BDM folder, then rename the filetype to .pk3
In other news, Proto Man's Break Man upgrade needs tweaking. Honestly, I think he just needs to lose the shield. With his existing stat upgrades he already gets, the shield is a bit much. If he's gonna get as strong as he does, he should lose the shield. I know he can't heal, but he can hide behind the shield and get frags in the meantime.
i know that. but what im saying is that there is no .pk3 to put in the parameters in the classes folder, even after i redownload it. Do i just put .pk3 at the end of the zipped file or will the zipped file itself work in the parameters?Okay, I know how to deal with this. After pressing add file look above the button that says 'open', there should be something that says 'MM8BDM Files (*.wad; *.pk3;)', just press that and another one that says 'All files (*,*)' should pop out. Click it and you'll be able to load the ZIP file fine.
Quote from: "Rozark"i know that. but what im saying is that there is no .pk3 to put in the parameters in the classes folder, even after i redownload it. Do i just put .pk3 at the end of the zipped file or will the zipped file itself work in the parameters?Okay, I know how to deal with this. After pressing add file look above the button that says 'open', there should be something that says 'MM8BDM Files (*.wad; *.pk3;)', just press that and another one that says 'All files (*,*)' should pop out. Click it and you'll be able to load the ZIP file fine.
YD's classes' bots kept running out of ammo and just became sitting ducks!Quick question, what version were you using? We fixed that problem some time ago, so chances are you weren't playing the absolutely latest version.
Why does this version of the Classes mod exist? It doesn't really do anything better and has had a long time since its last release. Is it even maintained anymore?
The only classes mod that matters is the one made by Yellow Devil. Someone can lock this topic please?
Why does this version of the Classes mod exist? It doesn't really do anything better and has had a long time since its last release. Is it even maintained anymore?
The only classes mod that matters is the one made by Yellow Devil. Someone can lock this topic please?
Why is it so hard to ignore the dumbass kids and just have fun playing as your favorite Mega Man characters?
Seriously.
Let the dill-holes argue like the dill-holes they are while I have fun killing them all as Punk And Friends. And you know you always have a reliable Classes host in me. I may like KY Classes slightly more, but I still host them both, I alternate between them, and said server is a land of fun and giggles where bitchmongers will recieve a Screw Crusher to the face while everyone gets to have smile fun time as their favorite Robot Masters. So why worry about the idiots? Let them be idiots. They will always be idiots. Haters gonna hate, and whiners gonna whine. I say to hell with all of 'em; let's just kick ass with our favorite Mega Man characters! That's all that should matter.
I find it incredibly ironic that you should be saying that after the whole Napalm Man scenario.
You people consider Dan a joke character? :? I'm a little offended by that...
You people consider Dan a joke character? :? I'm a little offended by that...
People can use Dan effectively in SSF4. That doesn't make him instantly not a joke character anymore.
Another thing I wanted to ask was whether Shadow Man was getting any sort of re-vamp in the next version. Right now he feels slightly spammy and not really a full class since he only has one attack and infinite ammo (reminds me of YD Metal Man somewhat). I'm not really sure about it, though, that's just how I see him at this point.
Also, after playing for awhile, I really don't see Napalm Man being horrendously UP. Sure, he can't rush crowds and get a million frags all at once, but as long as you think of where you're shooting, then he's really good (at least for me).
Shouldn't we stay on topic with KY Classes?
Also, after playing for awhile, I really don't see Napalm Man being horrendously UP. Sure, he can't rush crowds and get a million frags all at once, but as long as you think of where you're shooting, then he's really good (at least for me).
Really, no class is UP or OP; you shouldn't blame the tool, blame the man.
I'm only saying what's true, maaaaan
The classes are balanced, but the people who play this game's skill levels are not. That's really where the whole problem lies.
For example- Say you are a person who says Punk is absolutely perfect.
You go on your server as him, then beat up a bunch of people and win a lot of matches. The next day, the people you beat will be clamoring for a Punk nerf- and, even worse, will also be complaining for a buff of the characters they were using against you.
I can see how bugs need to be fixed, but really, that's really the only thing that needs to be fixed. Either that, or there's a class that only has good points or bad points, with nothing to balance either scenario out.
Metal Man is fine considering he can only take 50 damage, but I agree with Tomahawk Man.
I'm only saying what's true, maaaaan
The classes are balanced, but the people who play this game's skill levels are not. That's really where the whole problem lies.
For example- Say you are a person who says Punk is absolutely perfect.
You go on your server as him, then beat up a bunch of people and win a lot of matches. The next day, the people you beat will be clamoring for a Punk nerf- and, even worse, will also be complaining for a buff of the characters they were using against you.
I can see how bugs need to be fixed, but really, that's really the only thing that needs to be fixed. Either that, or there's a class that only has good points or bad points, with nothing to balance either scenario out.
Metal Man is fine considering he can only take 50 damage, but I agree with Tomahawk Man.
Eh? Shadow Man has two attacks, his Shadow Blades and his Shadow Slide. And he does have ammo, which both attacks use up.
Play as him in a room with skilled players who will go after you and you'll see why. The only way he can get frags is to kill-steal and hope no one finds him. Particularly any player with half-decent aim.
When I see Napalm, I run for him, because I want to get that free frag. With full health, I can come out pretty easily. In fact, the only real time Napalm has killed me was when I went through a crowd/1-2 duels and barely had health.
I've won plenty of matches with Centaur Man, despite the fact that he is slightly underpowered
I'm starting to think Shmeckie doesn't understand the concept of ''Balance'' nor ''OP'' or ''UP'', and attacks everyone else for the same reason.Quote from: "Shmeckie"I've won plenty of matches with Centaur Man, despite the fact that he is slightly underpowered
...Centaur Man? Underpowered? Surely you jest. My most recent experience with him was a server full of everyone and their mothers dominating as him by running around and just attacking anyone they saw.
As for Napalm Man, just look at the ridiculous hoops you have to jump through to get a frag. Lockdown with a full arsenal of torpedos and bouncing your aimfire off walls to trick someone? You can get better results with half the other classes with just a good ol' point-and-shoot.Reminds me of Demoman, and people know how to get aroud those problems when playing as him.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"I've won plenty of matches with Centaur Man, despite the fact that he is slightly underpowered
...Centaur Man? Underpowered? Surely you jest. My most recent experience with him was a server full of everyone and their mothers dominating as him by running around and just attacking anyone they saw.
-snip-
The only reason any class is grossly UP or OP is because you're either terrible at using or beating them.I laughed at how wrong this is.
Woah woah woah, originally all you wanted was a minor buff for Napalm and now you're calling him the hands-down worst class? I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, but still...Be consistent.
So if I make a class that shoots 100 damage rapid fire shots that home in, it's the other player's fault they keep getting fragged every 5 seconds?If we're going by Star Dood's logic, you'd be correct.
drop the torpedoes (they don't even really belong in this mod, anyway. Aren't we striving for NES game accuracy, here?).
Napalm Man fired napalm bombs and missiles in the NES game, but not homing torpedoes.
Quote from: "Beed28"Napalm Man fired napalm bombs and missiles in the NES game, but not homing torpedoes.Well, there were sprites for them.(click to show/hide)
That's exactly why I had a flawless victory in my first online match. EVER.Quote from: "Gummywormz"So if I make a class that shoots 100 damage rapid fire shots that home in, it's the other player's fault they keep getting fragged every 5 seconds?If we're going by Star Dood's logic, you'd be correct.
/me throws a chair
Forget it then. I'm just proposing a logical way to solve all this crap.
Not suprisingly, I'm wrong for the billionith time... why oh why can't I ever be right
One detail that was missed here is he gets 50% shield ammo if he gets hit (I think at the end of the pain animation), but I do agree he could use a buff.
KY stays true to the original titles! Look at Napalm Man! YD's Napalm looks like his Power Fighters look... but KY goes for the NES (even though there's an alt Napalm Man, but it doesn't seem right! On a side note relating to Napalm Man, it seems fine to stand still to recharge the torpedoes. On IDM09, people would stand on the ship and fire into the building to catch any campers. And it worked! But Skull Man is another story...
...and when you combine this with the fact that Shmeckie shamelessly man-rapes anyone on a classes server that sort of drives the nail in the coffin.
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"...and when you combine this with the fact that Shmeckie shamelessly man-rapes anyone on a classes server that sort of drives the nail in the coffin.
I feel kinda bad, now...
I never meant to discourage anyone from joining in the classes fun...! :(
Also, duels between two Napalm Men take hilariously long because of all the effort needed to score a single frag with him. I can attest to this.So can I! Because I certainly remember that one time we were both on Dustman's stage... :p
I've "facerolled" with him before, too, when up against people who weren't a huge threat. And it took a much greater effort than it would have if I had used anyone else. I'm not gonna use Punk against people who barely play classes, after all.Which is why he whipped Punk out on me I take it.
Again; you can win with underpowered people.
Which is why he whipped Punk out on me I take it.
QuoteAlso, duels between two Napalm Men take hilariously long because of all the effort needed to score a single frag with him. I can attest to this.So can I! Because I certainly remember that one time we were both on Dustman's stage... :p
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"...and when you combine this with the fact that Shmeckie shamelessly man-rapes anyone on a classes server that sort of drives the nail in the coffin.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"...and when you combine this with the fact that Shmeckie shamelessly man-rapes anyone on a classes server that sort of drives the nail in the coffin.
I had to laugh at this. So true!
Especially considering it took me 6 months for my 1st 1st place... Still, losing's almost as much fun as winning!
I'm starting to think I might be driving people away. :(I had fun facing off against you, winning or not. I won a few here and there and got close a few times. I like how you used a different class each map.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"I'm starting to think I might be driving people away. :(I had fun facing off against you, winning or not. I won a few here and there and got close a few times. I like how you used a different class each map.
Punk - Mainfire hitbox corrected. Mega's screws removed.
Ah, if I recall correctly, it wasn't possible to fix the bot classes crashing...Awww.... :cry:
Note that the bot classes only crash the game if activated when the match concludes. They are not turned on by default. As long as the bot classes are not used when an intermission screen is loaded, the game will not crash. If the bot classes are turned off, the special bots will instead get a "regular" class. Doc Robot gets the player's version(instead of the bot's), Dark Man 1 is Charge Man, et cetera so those bots still be used as well. And yes, Shade Guy is correct - fixing the bot classes is impossible due to skulltag.Quote from: "Shade Guy"Ah, if I recall correctly, it wasn't possible to fix the bot classes crashing...Awww.... :cry:
Many Bot Apoc tears were shed.
Side note: Napalm's damage per attack was unchanged.
Uhh... problem! When I was making a compatibility patch for CSCC, the bots (from CSCC) no longer spawn with their weapons, where they did with the previous version of KY Classes. I don't know how to fix this! Does anyone know? :cry:
Dedicated to KY Napalm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL67u_dCYOc)
This too. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfCKy0nKr0)
yamato man is a little delaying on his shot, and it takes forever to charge, leaving you dodging attacks for you life. I think long ammo recharges and slow speed is a bad combination all together.
My God, was he really that useless to you?
Boy, I'm suprised. I actually used to do well with the old Napalm if that's even fathomable, Shmeck, but I guess I'll try out the new one.
Yes, but notice how long those torpedoes have to regenerate for minimal damage and no stunlock,
Question: Who the hell uses the torpedoes?
his ammo consumption was never a problem in the first place,
*shrugs*
and the rate of fire was NES accurate, which is exactly what this mod is trying to accomplish! Argleblarglerantrantrantabcd
Accurate != balanced. And balance is top priority, not accuracy.
Quote from: "Star Dood"Yes, but notice how long those torpedoes have to regenerate for minimal damage and no stunlock,
Question: Who the hell uses the torpedoes?
Well if I brought it up, it would be safe to assume I do, correct? Also , Rozark and almost every other Napalm player does.
his ammo consumption was never a problem in the first place,
*shrugs*
and the rate of fire was NES accurate, which is exactly what this mod is trying to accomplish! Argleblarglerantrantrantabcd
Accurate != balanced. And balance is top priority, not accuracy.
But the whole point of this mod is to create balance while staying in the NES limits. The only thing Napalm somewhat needed was a damage buff. Thus he could've stayed NES-Accurate while still being able to work well in a deathmatch enviroment, even though his old version was fine.
What does everyone think of Skullman? I don't care for him, but my tastes are...specific.
On an unrelated note, Bubble Man is rather hard to use. His Bubble Buster has way too many downsides for it to be somewhat useful. It fires a lot of bullets, yes, but they always spread everywhere with minimal damage- AND he slows down when using it. His bubbles don't help much either.Mm? You had me sold until the "Bubbles don't help much". The bubbles ARE his main weapon. Don't be fooled by that super peashooter or whatever; it's like a 21HKO. The bubbles are infinite and should be your main offense. The peashooter is up for changing though. Personally I'd like to see the speed-drop item go away or something. As long as it's not "go back to the old buster", throw your suggestions out there. (This means changes in the weapon entirely. I don't like the peashooter either, eh. Neither do my left and right brains.)
I suggest turning down the rate of fire and increasing the damage a bit. Yeah, I know it's supposed to be a finisher, but the bubbles aren't reliable enough for it to fufill its current purpose.
So uh, yeah, Dive Man's alt fire is completely broken. Jaxof7 proved without a doubt on a server tonight that you A) Can't hit him while he's using it because he's moving too fast, B) Can't really defend against it because he moves too fast, and C) If you ever come under any sort of fire, you can just fly away because it lasts so dang long.Well, right now it already requires you have some ammo before you can fire. (You can't fire it again if your ammo is too low). Note that the speed also works against Dive Man; if he went slower it'd be easier to hug people (and not just because of it being easier to control). So he also can't get as much hug damage on you because he's moving too fast. (Similar to how a slow ripper is more lethal than a fast one.)
Well, right now it already requires you have some ammo before you can fire. (You can't fire it again if your ammo is too low). Note that the speed also works against Dive Man; if he went slower it'd be easier to hug people (and not just because of it being easier to control). So he also can't get as much hug damage on you because he's moving too fast. (Similar to how a slow ripper is more lethal than a fast one.)
Well, let's see...
To make it more NES accurate (yeah I'll drill it into your heads) you could do a somewhat fast-firing, fast moving but subpar damaging buster. I mean, in his boss fight, it went pretty fast...
Actually, how about this- Give him a buster that travels a bit slow and does some damage when used out of water, but when used in water, the damage and speed are increased a bit. It would make him pretty unique, honestly.
Forget bot classes, when we gettin' MM7 classes up in this bitch?Hehehe, we brought this up this morning in game.
Well, then how about making both 7 classes and bot classes playable? Then, everyone's happy.Quote from: "Shmeckie"Forget bot classes, when we gettin' MM7 classes up in this bitch?Hehehe, we brought this up this morning in game.
MM7, and the other DM would be great.
maybe putting up his arm when firing coal? Somebody made that once.We actually tested that out once, but decided not to use it because it looked completely ridiculous.
Charge Man is an evil Thomas the Tank Engine. I think being ridiculous is okay.
Mega Man 7 classes will be next.
In the spirit of friendly competition, I think that you and the guys over at YD Classes should have some sort of "collab" classes project where you put forth your best classes against theirs and slap the pack together for download. Of course, it wouldn't have a class for every Robot Master (I was thinking only about 12 classes MAX per side), but it would be nifty to see how the two teams view their projects... a sort of "Yamato X Devil" classes project, if you would.Something like this would obviously need the OK from both sides, so that's why I'm putting it over here as well.
Of course you don't have to use things that already exist, you could tweak the classes or create entirely new ones for the project. It's just something that I would like to see sometime in the future (and I'm sure a lot of other users coughcoughSCHMECKIEcoughcough would like to see it as well).
Mega Man 7 classes will be next.
i'm finding that most people that play as skull man tend to just use the skull shield during combat making them invincible. one they run out, they beat it and run off escaping the attacks of the opponent and eventually when the skull shield is fully charged turn back and shield themselves while attacking like a bunch of cowards.
i'm finding that most people that play as skull man tend to use him exactly how he's designed to be played.
So Skull Man's supposed to be a cowarding pussy?Real men go into battle unprepared and get killed! Seriously, get the fuck over it.
Since he was originally designed to be a well-balanced combat robot I don't think that's very accurate.
I mean come on, if your dustman, skullman's weakness, and try to defeat him in battle, skull man will attack you with invincibility, run away, and come back with more skull barrier. And to make matters worse, you can't do anything about it because dustman is too slow to chase him down. if skullman were to be stationary when using his skull barrier, than it would make things better. And by the way, having to use a homing attack on skullman to break his barrier doesn't make much sense to me, being because skullman is super effective against diveman.
Except that the idea is to have the Robot Masters play as they did in the NES games, for the most part, not to make each Robot Master an exact counter to whoever is weak to their weapon.
i'm sorry, but mm5 gb classes don't even exist yet. while true you can use related attacks (like your iceman example), but staying true to the nes games kinda makes more sense.I believe he was just using the GB games to provide an example. In fact, he never implied they existed.
How serious are you about doing this? If you'd like to do something like this yourself (say with another modder like xColdxFusionx), I would ask Yamato himself. Regardless of what he says, I have no intention of trying to stop you if you want to make one - since you're only presenting your mod as an alternative. (The previous people who wanted a "merger" implied that the new version would combine both mods as opposed to making a separate crossover, and I have stated before that is not a new idea.) Do note that really, the split itself exists because of Yamato and Devil's previous failure to collaborate, so a mod such as your example would have to be done by someone else.Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"In the spirit of friendly competition, I think that you and the guys over at YD Classes should have some sort of "collab" classes project where you put forth your best classes against theirs and slap the pack together for download. Of course, it wouldn't have a class for every Robot Master (I was thinking only about 12 classes MAX per side), but it would be nifty to see how the two teams view their projects... a sort of "Yamato X Devil" classes project, if you would.Something like this would obviously need the OK from both sides, so that's why I'm putting it over here as well.
Of course you don't have to use things that already exist, you could tweak the classes or create entirely new ones for the project. It's just something that I would like to see sometime in the future (and I'm sure a lot of other users coughcoughSCHMECKIEcoughcough would like to see it as well).
Except that the idea is to have the Robot Masters play as they did in the NES games, for the most part, not to make each Robot Master an exact counter to whoever is weak to their weapon.This is a good point. Don't harp on the "NES" moniker too much. Class weaknesses are mostly present in terms of weapon damage, but NOT in terms of class behavior itself. On the other hand, Vampire Skull Man is probably out of the question. (That's a totally different robot master who has yet to be seen.) The Mega Man Killers you could argue are from Mega Man 1-4 (as the Rockman World games don't differ a whole lot), Bass not so much, but it's not worth it to remove those classes just to uphold a title. What you should think of this: When you as play as a class, you should generally think "Oh! This is just like in the game." Did Skull Man activate hyper mode or charge at you with super speed when you played Mega Man 4? No, so that version of Skull Man was scrapped.
Well, let's see...
To make Bubble Man more NES accurate (yeah I'll drill it into your heads) you could do a somewhat fast-firing, fast moving but subpar damaging buster. I mean, in his boss fight, it went pretty fast...
Actually, how about this- Give him a buster that travels a bit slow and does some damage when used out of water, but when used in water, the damage and speed are increased a bit. It would make him pretty unique, honestly.
Maybe if you only gained Skull Barrier ammo by hitting enemies... ? That would encourage ol' Skully to actually FIGHT instead of hiding in a corner sucking his thumb waiting for more invincibility. I know it's possible because Vampirism from Chaos Generator gave you HP if you hit something. Ghostbuster from GvH gives you weapons if you frag players, so why can't Mr. Skulls get shield ammo if he hits players?Hello I am an ignored person and I am going to shove this back into your face
Oh, and the main fire ammo doesn't help much either. It's ridiculously low.
skull man's ammo could use more or unlimited, but unless the skull shield is stationary, that is a must! either you shorten the skull barrier time or make it stationary like in the game, that would make things better.WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE HIM SUCK
On the subject of abuse, Gemini's clone again is quite abuseable. With 150 hp, that thin' will last awhile and most folks won't really bother tryin' to kill the clone unless it gets into their face. After that, then the player can die off a few times/donate a few frags to others and rack up on clones. Even though the clone has 50 more hp to make up the fact that it can't regen, the protection from fast hits and it's "smart" AI adds more to the abuseability of Gemini.Smarter then a bot, don't get stuck as often, more HP, AND immune to hazards (yes they will run around in holes) and once the player dies there is more, if you don't take care of the clones you have an army of Gems running around.
How come nobody will talk about gaining shield ammo from hitting enemies? :?
make it so that he gains energy by hitting with his gun when the shield is down and you might be onto something.this backs up how skull's barrier should be more of a privlage.
make it so that he gains energy by hitting with his gun when the shield is down and you might be onto something.That's what I meant... derp, guess I wasn't clear with that.
This "you have to hit people to refill the Skull Barrier" is a terrible idea designed to force people to play the way you want them to play.Insinuating the way you play is "shoot then pussy out".
Just sayin'...
So if I played Elecman, used his alt, ran away then came back to use it again, you would argue that Elec needs a speed nerf?Quote from: "Shmeckie"This "you have to hit people to refill the Skull Barrier" is a terrible idea designed to force people to play the way you want them to play.Insinuating the way you play is "shoot then pussy out".
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"So if I played Elecman, used his alt, ran away then came back to use it again, you would argue that Elec needs a speed nerf?Quote from: "Shmeckie"This "you have to hit people to refill the Skull Barrier" is a terrible idea designed to force people to play the way you want them to play.Insinuating the way you play is "shoot then pussy out".
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
What your problem is, Smash, is not with the class, but with the player. The class does not specifically force the player to run away, but the player chooses to. You're better off complaining in a server about anyone who uses Skullman in a "shoot 'n pussy out" way rather than here, where you decide to blame a class for someone else's actions.
This is a good point. Don't harp on the "NES" moniker too much. Class weaknesses are mostly present in terms of weapon damage, but NOT in terms of class behavior itself. On the other hand, Vampire Skull Man is probably out of the question. (That's a totally different robot master who has yet to be seen.) The Mega Man Killers you could argue are from Mega Man 1-4 (as the Rockman World games don't differ a whole lot), Bass not so much, but it's not worth it to remove those classes just to uphold a title. What you should think of this: When you as play as a class, you should generally think "Oh! This is just like in the game." Did Skull Man activate hyper mode or charge at you with super speed when you played Mega Man 4? No, so that version of Skull Man was scrapped.
Perhaps make it so he can't shoot when the barrier is up? Make it an "oh shit something big and strong is coming. *barrier to protect self*"
Also, why doesn't Gutsman have an earthquake ability yet? He uses it excesivly in the NES game, to stun Mega Man.
Why not make this earthquake ability trigger when Gutsman lands from any jump or fall, and harmlessly knock players in a random direction?
And why you're at it, make the screen shake when Gutsman and Hardman (and maybe even Stoneman) do their earthquake abilities. I cannot stress this enough.
Coldfusion's right, flashman is too good, his shoot does gallons of damage. maybe lower the amount it causes or something, i could work quite well with a weakened flashman that people will stop calling op.
Or....
maybe flashman could have a delay on his bursting shot like in the game. In the game it's like he just shoots a bunch of pellets at you in one single shot.
i think that would help
I'm pretty sure that has been brought up before...If I recall it wasn't fixable, or at least with how Gemini Clone works currently.
We might just have to live with it, like the crashing botclasses.
Something needs to be done about that Dive Charge, guys. Seriously. That crap's ridiculous, especially in a Duel situation in a large open stage. It's near impossible to beat Dive Man in a situation like that.Hello, my name is "ten pages ago".
Require full ammo to use it, and cut the full duration in half (increase ammo consumption, basically). That should do the trick. It's not like Dive Man covered a ton of ground with it in MM4 anyway.
I'd rather if Dive Missile and Dive Tackle used separate ammo bars.:| :| :|
I use the tackle DEFENSIVELY to gain some distance between myself and my target (so my missiles aim better) and that becomes pretty much impossible to do if you need FULL AMMO to use the alt. With Charge Man his tackle is pretty much his bread and butter and much more offensive, so it's a bit unfair tryin' to compare apples and oranges.
It would be so cool if Charge Man pumped his arms up and down while charging like in the real game.Play the Megaman 3 tournament with this mod on, Charge is in the first match (Top Man's stage) and will be wrecking the competition, and thats a bot. Though I don't use Charge so thats the extent of my knowledge on his effectiveness. I don't know how he fairs online.
He should also put his hand up while he fires his coal. If you want, I could make some sprites for that; it would make Charge Man more interesting than just one set of sprites for both things.
Also, you should give the Coal Shot the charge-up period like in the real games. Invincible while charging the attack and firing it, offsetted by a small range, though it should be increased a tiny smidgen; it's a little hard to use the way it is now.
Seriously, Charge Man is a pretty boring class. Having nearly complete NES accuracy would help him a lot.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Charge Man can only attack people once with his charge attack the way it is now, right? He shouldn't do ripping damage, but everyone who comes in contact with him should take some damage.
Charge Man needs help. He's somewhat ineffective and boring to use.
Heh. Maybe you're just playing Drill Man wrong, and should embrace a different playstyle with him...
There's not a lot of playstyle options for a slow-moving projectile you either have to fire in sporadic bursts with noticable lengths of time between shots, or spam the hell out of them, then sit and wait for your ammo to fully refill. In the middle of a group firefight.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"There's not a lot of playstyle options for a slow-moving projectile you either have to fire in sporadic bursts with noticable lengths of time between shots, or spam the hell out of them, then sit and wait for your ammo to fully refill. In the middle of a group firefight.
Drill bombs are made for blasting distracted people from a distance, not running into the middle of the crowd.
I don't know how you guys play Drill Man but from the way I see it, he is supposed to fire large amounts of Drill Bombs in bursts, then retreat (or at least get out of the middle of the battlefield) while recharging another round. This is where his altfire comes in handy. Think of it like a more extreme Metal Man when it comes to burst fire, extreme in the sense that he can fire more in a round but has to recharge longer.
Likewise, I don't know how well this works out in battle. However, the only plausible edit to Drill Man I see is editing the projectile itself. Removing the whole 'gotta wait until you're at full ammo to fire again!!' thing kinda screws over how he was intended to play like, and that's no good.
- Allow him to climb upward with his Drill Dig, so he actually CAN escape to recharge (and really, if he's digging underground, why wouldn't he be able to do this?!).
Also a glitch can happen with drill when he pops out right under someone where he gets stuck inside them, then the person he is in and him have to duke it out to see who lives. (similar thing happens at the start of Bot Apocs from time to time)This is so wrong. In many ways. Take that as you will, Cutstuff. >_>
Also a glitch can happen with drill when he pops out right under someone where he gets stuck inside them, then the person he is in and him have to duke it out to see who lives. (similar thing happens at the start of Bot Apocs from time to time)
It would also help a lot of his drills recharged while he was underground, which only seems natural for how he acts in mm4.Probably not best, because God forbid we make another class that does hit and run...
Yes, but the difference is that actually suits the way Drill Man fought in mm4 while Skull Man was much more aggressive.I wanted to campaign for an agressive Skull Man but everyone and their grandmother said "don't try and change his playstyle".
Quote from: "NemZ"Yes, but the difference is that actually suits the way Drill Man fought in mm4 while Skull Man was much more aggressive.I wanted to campaign for an agressive Skull Man but everyone and their grandmother said "don't try and change his playstyle".
Now you want hit and run Drill Man. YOU'RE CHANGING HIS PLAYSTYLE.
Yes, but the difference is that actually suits the way Drill Man fought in mm4 while Skull Man was much more aggressive.If that's the case, why not just flip-flop them? If Skull Man was aggressive in the game, make him aggressive in the mod. And if Drill Man is hit and run in the game, make him that way in the mod. Isn't that what this is supposed to be about? Making the classes like they are in game?
YOU'RE CHANGING HIS PLAYSTYLE.
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"Also a glitch can happen with drill when he pops out right under someone where he gets stuck inside them, then the person he is in and him have to duke it out to see who lives. (similar thing happens at the start of Bot Apocs from time to time)This is so wrong. In many ways. Take that as you will, Cutstuff. >_>
I had something to say about Drill Bomb damage, but I forgot how much they dealt to normal armor classes.
Skullman-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMPd73VS4Cs
Going STRICTLY off the game, Skullman would have...
-A 3-shot burst buster that goes straight, high, low.
-A barrier that can be activated in SHORT bursts- deals damage, and Skull CANNOT move. With full ammo, he can, briefly.
-High speed
-A 3-shot burst buster that goes straight, high, low.
I really have no idea why Drill needs to be changed; his ammo reloads very fast compared to other classes.
I'm still saying Charge Man needs a buff. He's too weak to be a good contender. Why can you only charge into people's backs, by the way? It's weird- I tried to charge into people from the front last night on Shmeckie's server, but they didn't take any damage from it.
Also, Stone Man should crumble into bricks after he stone-stomps.
The problem with "SKull Barrier cancels out if you move or shoot" is that anyone who sees you hiding in the Skull Barrier is gonna camp and suround you, and wait to make a move. Or just shoot the hell out of your barrier so that they'll hit you when it goes down, much like how most people (with half a brain, anyway) deal with Wood man hiding behind Leaf Shield. I know you want accuracy, and don't like it when people don't play honorably with him or whatever, but stationary Skull Barrier would be largely useless in practical situations. All you need to do is stand next to Skull man in his barrier and wait for him to come out. Why even use it at all?
Also, Stone Man should crumble into bricks after he stone-stomps.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"The problem with "SKull Barrier cancels out if you move or shoot" is that anyone who sees you hiding in the Skull Barrier is gonna camp and suround you, and wait to make a move. Or just shoot the hell out of your barrier so that they'll hit you when it goes down, much like how most people (with half a brain, anyway) deal with Wood man hiding behind Leaf Shield. I know you want accuracy, and don't like it when people don't play honorably with him or whatever, but stationary Skull Barrier would be largely useless in practical situations. All you need to do is stand next to Skull man in his barrier and wait for him to come out. Why even use it at all?
The point is NOT to hide behind it but to use it briefly to defend, then counter. To put it in fighting game terms this is more like an alpha counter, not just turtling in the corner. The fact that it lasts only a brief time and you can choose to cancel it even earlier by moving, or more importantly by shooting, means that Skull Man is in charge of when it drops and controls the initiative there, not the guy who stands there waiting. Shooting at the barrier should have NO effect on when it times out. Projectiles that rip should penetrate the shield without dropping it, but it should make him immune to area effects and melee attacks of all types even if they normally do rip (not that I have any idea how to code that).
This is also game-accurate as his pauses behind the barrier in mm4 are not always the same length.
As of now, he's stuck with a 10 damage buster that has 10 shots and a barrier which takes forever to reload, and destroys any ripping character... He's just not that good, y'know?
I'd just like to say this dash attack idea is silly. Skull Man didn't do anything that was explicitly a charge attack, Wario-style. He just ran fast. If anything, all that means is that his run speed should be increased. Hell, Bright Man would often jump on your head after he froze you. Should we give him a stomp attack along with Stone and Hard Man, now?
(various objections)
If it's not broken don't fix it.
If anything we should worry about fixing characters like chargeman
I really have no idea why Drill needs to be changed; his ammo reloads very fast compared to other classes.
I'm still saying Charge Man needs a buff. He's too weak to be a good contender. Why can you only charge into people's backs, by the way? It's weird- I tried to charge into people from the front last night on Shmeckie's server, but they didn't take any damage from it.
Give his charging a damage buff (not too big, but good enough) and give the Coal Shot a better range and an invincibility period which is offsetted by being immobile and a delay for the shot to appear, just like the game. I think it would help Charge Man quite a bit. And make his arms pump while charging and his arm go up when shooting coal, too- I don't like him only having one set of animations! Use the one you have now for the invincibility thing I was talking about.
Also, Stone Man should crumble into bricks after he stone-stomps.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"I'd just like to say this dash attack idea is silly. Skull Man didn't do anything that was explicitly a charge attack, Wario-style. He just ran fast. If anything, all that means is that his run speed should be increased. Hell, Bright Man would often jump on your head after he froze you. Should we give him a stomp attack along with Stone and Hard Man, now?
Perhaps we should, actually. Of course every RM dealt contact damage in the old games, but not all of them used that purposefully as a means of attack... most of the time it was just them trying to get somewhere. Those that specifically do try to ram into you probably should have a melee-style attack to mimic this even if there was no special animation for it.
Fine, I'll just try again then. The overall goal is strong buster for offense, barrier meant primarily for defense, can't shoot or move while barrier is up.
1) Buster deals 20 damage, 10 shots on a full bar, and regenerates at a pace that discourages just spaming it.
2) Altfire raises Skull Barrier which can block everything except ripping projectiles but freezes user movement while active. Uses ammo at a very quick pace while held on but also regenerates very quickly, requires full bar to activate. Contact with the barrier causes stun, damage and knockback, does not make the barrier drop. Active barrier doesn't stop buster ammo from recharging.
3) altfire when barrier's energy isn't full results in short ranged dashing melee attack instead.
The only noticeable knockback damage I've seen is Roll Swing in PU, and the reaaaaally old Wind Storm.YD Magnet Man has some noticeable knockback as well, if AMP's Cloud Brother was any indication...
I do believe we are once again forgetting this is not meant to emulate the behaviors of the NES Robot Masters.
And I'll take balance and fun over restricting gameplay just to force people to act like NES AI bots.
And then there's the slippery slope; where do you draw the line? Remove Bright Man'sbulbs? Should Plant Man lose his buster and ability to sap your health? No more Guts Punch?
Quote from: "Shmeckie"And I'll take balance and fun over restricting gameplay just to force people to act like NES AI bots.
Balance and fun are both subjective. Gee, why make charecters act like themselves?
Yes, I'd like to remove all of these and more, and rebuild the charecters from the ground up based on the abilities they actually have in the games (though perhaps with some allowances for charecters who have different abilities in different appearances, such as giving plant man the ability to make flowers spring up from the ground as he could in power battles).
Because they're controlled by human beings in a three-dimensional FPS environment.
There is nothing subjective about balance.
the fact you seem to be putting this ridiculously stringent rule of emulation over the characters actually being fun to play is... baffling, to say the least.
There is nothing subjective about balance.
And then there's the slippery slope; where do you draw the line? Remove Bright Man's bulbs? Should Plant Man lose his buster and ability to sap your health? No more Guts Punch? Hell, Toad Man didn't even walk.I'm not saying that I don't agree with this. Going by some RM's attack patterns, almost all of the classes wouldn't be as fun. but there's a fine line between restricting gameplay, and pulling some bullshit attack out of your ass. It can be easy to picture these RM's with some of their user-generated abilities genuinely having them. For instance, it would make sense that Guts Man would also try and punch someone. It's also reasonable to say that Toad Man doesn't just take a flying leap whereever he goes, because you can watch a real life toad make small jumps to move around, the only time they make huge leaps is when they're fleeing something. But take Bomb Man: I never remember him throwing a giant bomb in any canon game (unless he did it in Powered Up, and I just didn't let him live that long). I don't remember Elec Man zapping the crap out of people with a huge lightning bolt. I thought that was Dynamo Man's job. There can be such a thing as balance while assuring that the class's balancing makes sense.
Bomb Man's Giant Bomb and Elec Man's Heaven Thunder were both critical attacks from Mega Man Powered Up.But this is the NES classes mod, if we won't use any abilities of them from the Arcade games why use abilities from PU?
If you haven't seen them used, go play on Hard difficulty and come back.
Dare I ask Star Dood,
Nothing really, it's just that I assume that the answer was going to be something enough to where I should of thought of it on my own
What does this mean, hmmmmm
quick question.Don't you mean Doc Robot, Copy Robot isn't in this mod.
ain't all forms of metal blade supposed to OHKO a metalman, including copyrobot's?
my bad, i tend to call docrobot the copyrobot... but yes, i meant the docbotQuote from: "PLAINOLDLUIS"quick question.Don't you mean Doc Robot, Copy Robot isn't in this mod.
ain't all forms of metal blade supposed to OHKO a metalman, including copyrobot's?
It was a suggestion to make it somewhat more like the NES. He uses his bulb to blind people instead of relying on a grenade. I was thinking a quick flash of light might blind an enemy.
But this is the NES classes mod, if we won't use any abilities of them from the Arcade games why use abilities from PU?
I'm clearly not being nearly as stringent as your ridiculous examples so just drop the hyperbole already, jackass.
Why are you being so pissy just because I have a different opinion than you? Calm the fuck down.
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"But this is the NES classes mod, if we won't use any abilities of them from the Arcade games why use abilities from PU?
See, I'm okay with stuff like that, just as long as it has some precedence from the games and isn't just completely made up.
Making Bright Man able to use an area blinding/stunning ability would be an excellent alternative to the bulbs.
Holy crap I think some of you actually don't know what "balance" means. Like, at all...!
Does every class have a fair shot at winning? Or are some too powerful/not powerful enough? That's balance.
There's nothing subjective about calling a character who can run up to your face and rapid-fire a 3HKO overpowered, and hurting the overall balance of the mod.
Holy crap I think some of you actually don't know what "balance" means. Like, at all...!Look who's talking. You bash every idea that isn't yours without even considering it.
Does every class have a fair shot at winning? Or are some too powerful/not powerful enough? That's balance. Look at Charge Man. He does little damage and his attack sometimes doesn't even work. He's UP. UnderPowered. Poor balance there. Look at Dive Man. He cannot be caught in a 1-on-1 situation in even a moderately open stage. He's (situationally) OP. OverPowered. Poor balance there. Aside from those two, we have good balance right now due to the lack of classes that just annihilate the competition the way Tomahawk man did. That's not subjective. It doesn't matter how you play, it matters what tools the classes have and whether or not those tools are insufficient or way too much. There's nothing subjective about calling a character who can run up to your face and rapid-fire a 3HKO overpowered, and hurting the overall balance of the mod. Balance has nothing to do with individual playstyle.You'er essentially changing your opinion just so you can sound right. Of course every class is situationally overpowered or underpowered. That's just how their playing style works! Skull Man is good for hit and run. Shadow Man and Charge Man are good for melee fighting. We all get that. That doesn't mean that classes can't be adapted for other situations. Ask any of my friends. I don't use Elec Man to rapid-fire people to death. I use him to snipe people to death. This is why changes are made, so a character can adapt to a number of situations, and not just one where he's only useful under the right circumstances.
As for Bright Man, he's fine. He's got his Bright Stopper and buster. He has the flash grenades because, in MM8BDM, the Bright Stopper doesn't freeze anyone, it blinds people. So the bulbs let him do just that. Though I'm not adverse to the bulb flash idea...I'm glad that you're at least somewhat open minded to this. I think we should all throw a party. I just said it and I'll say it again: it is stuff like this that needs to be tried out to see if it is liked. That's why they call it testing!!! You try it out, if no one likes it, back to the drawing board, or expand on the idea to make it more like able. You act like balancing classes is just impossible, and it's not. I've done it. (Not in MM8BDM, mind you)
Hmm...Who does this remind me of?Quote from: "NemZ"I'm clearly not being nearly as stringent as your ridiculous examples so just drop the hyperbole already, jackass.
Classy.
Take your SRK example... the mere fact that they need discussions to decide how to organize these tier lists and even then different regions offer different conclusions means that this is clearly an example of balance being subjective. In point of fact it simply has to be unless all the characters are just palette swaps with identical moves.
EDIT: I went to shoryuken.com and did a search for subjective+tier... and got 196 hits. Any questions?
Yes, but it's also subjective. It depends on the skill levels and style of the players, the unique properties of the stage and the player's familiarity with it and how their character's unique properties interact with them (can I make that jump, can I shoot through that gap, etc), the game mode being played, the overall mix of other classes they're facing, the quality of the player's connection and hardware, players' conscious or unconscious desires to see certain classes be better or worse, their personal gaming philosophies about what constitutes cheapness or fun... all of this combines to create a scenario that is FAR removed from just comparing thing A to thing B and saying they're balanced. The best you can hope for is to play lots of times with lots of different combinations of the above factors to try and find a consensus average, but it never stops being subjective.
For example, are Megaman and Bass balanced in MM&B? Personally I think Bass is probably the stronger of the two, but with as many little differences in how they play I'm honestly not sure how to quantify that as anything but my subjective opinion based on how I play the games, what I personally find hard or easy, etc. I bet at least one person reading this thinks Megaman is better and at least one other person reading this will not have a preference. Are they balanced because we can disagree on which is better? If so, doesn't that mean they're being balanced or not depends on the composition of the group of people you ask? That's subjective again.
Wouldn't that depend on what abilities the other classes have, the relative difficulty of running up to your face depending on the stage, how much energy such an attack takes to make and how fast it recharges relative to others, how hard it is to dodge at various ranges or if it even has any range to speak of, if he has any weakness that the others can exploit... all of these are factors that complicate the issue and, yes indeed, make the answer subjective. Hell, it might even be fair to consider non-play factors such as how the skin and hud looks as a kind of balancing factor based on the player's enjoyment of the game regardless of winning percentages, and do note that attitude towards the character can in turn make the player perform better or worse... there are scientific studies that show something as simple as uniform color can have a statistically measurable affect on competitive events!
Easy- He puts both his hands up like he does in the NES when he uses it. Then he flashes, like when he uses it.
Speaking of Air Man, I think you guys overnerfed him. Two things...
- First, his mainfire is too weak now. I think you guys need to find a good middle point between what the damage used to be, and what it is now. It was too easy to get frags with him, now it takes too long. Especially since he needs to be in your face to do max damage with it (which now is pretty much required unless you wanna do less damage than Skull Man), so he's already putting himself in danger.
- The Air Wall takes way too much ammo. It was never that powerful a tool to merit that much ammo usage, and it just makes using the Air Wall more of a liability than anything.
It could always be done a faster/farther-traveling projectile. I'd say that if it's a faster ROF/Projectile, increase ammo.
And if it went farther, keep it the way it is and maybe increase the damage as seen fit. That's just what I think, though.
Bleh, I is stupid.
I finally figured out where Bright Man's grenade is from- Rockman 4 MI.
He uses it when he goes into beserk mode.
For Skull Man: Rockman hacks are not an influence on this mod. (Neither is Team Fortress, by the way!) Skull Man can recharge his barrier by either standing still (like in the game) OR it recharges automatically when he takes damage.
Rockman hacks are not an influence on this mod.
Bleh, I is stupid.
I finally figured out where Bright Man's grenade is from- Rockman 4 MI.
He uses it when he goes into beserk mode.
I love that quote becuase of this quoteQuote from: "Star Dood"Bleh, I is stupid.
I finally figured out where Bright Man's grenade is from- Rockman 4 MI.
He uses it when he goes into beserk mode.
I never knew where the grenade came from lol until now. I thought it was an original idea from the YD classes team.
How about this: he gets his flash, but it completely blinds the person. It would make sense, since he's the master of the weapon. Maybe it could have a slow regen timeOhai, dont mind me...
Yeah, I'm all behind that idea, myself.
Also, just curious; please tell me you guys are setting Freeze Man so he's healed by copywep Freeze Cracker.
t-bolting turboman made him invincible and caused him to ram you.He did the ramming automatically, t-bolting him made him do it faster. The wiki can be your friend.
I do believe it would also cause him to make multiple passes at you as the car, rather than the one pass he would do normally.
As for Spring Man, I don't think they could replicate what he would originally do if you T-Bolted him, so maybe having copywep Thunder Bolt effect Spring Man similar to how YD Skull Man's "RAEG" works might work better.
the wiki can be your friend
Actually Turbo follows a pattern. Pull > Scorch Wheel > Ram > Ram > repeat.Quotethe wiki can be your friend
actually playing the game is a better friend.
t-bolt turbo to force him to ram you, while invincible, and faster.
his normal ram was completey random.
and i swear, if slash gets frozen or burned from freeze cracker or scroch wheel, i will be the happiesttails dollman around here.
Actually Turbo follows a pattern. Scorch Wheel > Pull > Ram > Ram > repeat.
Speaking of Doc Robot, his Leaf Shield needs a RoF nerf. I believe I brought this up before, but in case I didn't here it it again; holding down fire can cause him to fire it off so rapidly that the opponent only has a tiny window in which to hit him, making it near-impossible for a character with a slower projectile speed to get a hit through.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Speaking of Doc Robot, his Leaf Shield needs a RoF nerf. I believe I brought this up before, but in case I didn't here it it again; holding down fire can cause him to fire it off so rapidly that the opponent only has a tiny window in which to hit him, making it near-impossible for a character with a slower projectile speed to get a hit through.
Doc Robot will then exist as one of the most UP classes in KY.
Rant following...(click to show/hide)
BTW, Pharaoh is seriously OP. As in, second place has three frags while I have 10 on Flashman's stage with 6 people.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"Speaking of Doc Robot, his Leaf Shield needs a RoF nerf. I believe I brought this up before, but in case I didn't here it it again; holding down fire can cause him to fire it off so rapidly that the opponent only has a tiny window in which to hit him, making it near-impossible for a character with a slower projectile speed to get a hit through.
Doc Robot will then exist as one of the most UP classes in KY.
Rant following...(click to show/hide)
BTW, Pharaoh is seriously OP. As in, second place has three frags while I have 10 on Flashman's stage with 6 people.
actually docrobot's metal blade is indeed slower then a copywep metalblade.
There should be a limit to how many Gemini Clones can be on the field at once...
I main Gemini and I'll admit, it would be good to limit, though there is an issue. KY Gemini Man can not harm Gemini Clones, at all. So if someone else is Gemini those clones can shoot you, you don't know that they aren't yours until they shoot you, and you can't get rid of them.Quote from: "Daveris"There should be a limit to how many Gemini Clones can be on the field at once...
I think it was Grexion who would spawn a clone, fight & die, spawn a clone, fight & die, rinse & repeat. There was at least SEVEN CLONES within 1 minute!
Gemini Buster works on them. They are immune to the laser however.I think Gemini Buster works on the clones only in YD, and it works on your own too in YD.
In KY, I'm pretty sure they spawn Red on Wily.
Quote from: "Daveris"There should be a limit to how many Gemini Clones can be on the field at once...
I think it was Grexion who would spawn a clone, fight & die, spawn a clone, fight & die, rinse & repeat. There was at least SEVEN CLONES within 1 minute!
Quote from: "Daveris"There should be a limit to how many Gemini Clones can be on the field at once...
I think it was Grexion who would spawn a clone, fight & die, spawn a clone, fight & die, rinse & repeat. There was at least SEVEN CLONES within 1 minute!
Quote from: "TheDoc"Quote from: "Daveris"There should be a limit to how many Gemini Clones can be on the field at once...
I think it was Grexion who would spawn a clone, fight & die, spawn a clone, fight & die, rinse & repeat. There was at least SEVEN CLONES within 1 minute!
Isn't that basically the only way to play him?
I will say however that it is rather fun to play on Air Man (or Ring Man's) stage and intentionally kill yourself right after making a clone a bunch of times right at the start... like ten or so. With all that open space your clone army will make up for your self-inflicted penalty very quickly, and simply playing normally you'll die a few times and keep their numbers up.
Until they choose Dive, Magnet, or Napalm Man and wipe out your clones in seconds...
For the Gemini player, it's fun, but for everyone else it's obnoxious as hell.Super Adventure Rockman Gemini could have more then one clone, so it is more cannon then you think.
We seriously need a one clone limit. That's a helluva lot more canon than twenty Gemini men running around.
Super Adventure Rockman Gemini could have more then one clone, so it is more cannon then you think.
If that's what you think, you're playing Gemini wrong.
I usually just want to play snipers in FPS games and absolutely nothing in this one is conductive to that playstyle (nor should it be; I like this whole thing more as an idea than as a game).
...
Fixed some problems with the client side Z positioning of players online.
Fixed: Removing a morphed bot crashed the game.
Fixed: When a player tried to join a team from a team selection room online, the server crashed.
...
I'm kinda sad there is no good super long range weapons, every weapon in the game you can see coming from far enough. Look at rings map, someone shoots at you from across it you can see the shoot coming and dodge it, at least one "high velocity low firing rate" (sniper) weapon would be handy for maps like that one.
Then again I pretty much suck at this game anyway, so oh well. I usually just want to play snipers in FPS games and absolutely nothing in this one is conductive to that playstyle (nor should it be; I like this whole thing more as an idea than as a game).
How about putting in A_KillChildren in all of Gemini Man's death states, or wouldn't it work on player classes?
Speaking of Gemini Man, how about making its bot summon a clone?
Quote from: "Shmeckie"If that's what you think, you're playing Gemini wrong.
The irony of this. Seriously.
And honestly, everything you're complaining about is exactly why I like the class. If I wanted to buster duel there are much better options out there and the laser really isn't all that great. Then again I pretty much suck at this game anyway, so oh well. I usually just want to play snipers in FPS games and absolutely nothing in this one is conductive to that playstyle (nor should it be; I like this whole thing more as an idea than as a game).
Is there absolutely no way to set the clone to die when Gemini Man does? Something to eliminate it when Gemini's health reaches 0 or something...?!Quote from: "NemZ"Quote from: "Shmeckie"If that's what you think, you're playing Gemini wrong.
The irony of this. Seriously.
And honestly, everything you're complaining about is exactly why I like the class. If I wanted to buster duel there are much better options out there and the laser really isn't all that great. Then again I pretty much suck at this game anyway, so oh well. I usually just want to play snipers in FPS games and absolutely nothing in this one is conductive to that playstyle (nor should it be; I like this whole thing more as an idea than as a game).
...You're telling me how he should be played while admitting you suck at the game?!
His laser is for covering the area, his buster is for direct shots, and his laser can also be used point-blank for good damage. And to what fortegigas said; summoning the clone immediately is a waste. You can use it to bail you out in a fight, and get some instant backup. If you summon a clone in a fracas, it's more likely to actually attack people, rather than wander off by itself and leave people alone.
Unless "into action" means when you run into enemies. I could be misunderstanding you.
...You're telling me how he should be played while admitting you suck at the game?!
Because there's a difference between "how he should be played to be effective," and "how he should be played because people annoy me online and I demand they change the way they play."
Shmeckie, lately you've adopted the "my way or the highway" point of view.
Just tellin' ya if you don't realize it.
just about anyone can tell you this clone issue is a problem.
On another note, I think Bomb Man's blast radius may be a little too large. Way too large, actually.
I had my suspicions, so I tried him myself. I was able to hit people who were nowhere near the explosion. Considering he already throws bombs pretty fast, and the explosions themselves are large enough as is, so the blast radius seems unnecessarily large. making the blast radius the size of the actual explosion animation seems like it would make more sense.
Quote from: "Shmeckie"On another note, I think Bomb Man's blast radius may be a little too large. Way too large, actually.
I had my suspicions, so I tried him myself. I was able to hit people who were nowhere near the explosion. Considering he already throws bombs pretty fast, and the explosions themselves are large enough as is, so the blast radius seems unnecessarily large. making the blast radius the size of the actual explosion animation seems like it would make more sense.
I'll agree with you here; Megalad seems to have 100% accuracy with those bombs.
Drill Man gains massive power with just a tiny damage increase, so his ammo will probably be changed instead. (He will be given more or lose the minimum ammo requirement)
The change I had for Gemini clones (which was to give them a timer, a la roboenza zombies) was unsuccessful, and I have not found a more satisfying way to prevent "clone spam". (Yamato does not want to make them useless.) I have considered either giving clones 10-20 HP as well as making the clone item not spawn until Gemini has < 50% HP.
Bright, Skull, and Bomb I am unsure on what to do with them at this point in time.
Btw, Bomb Man is known for tossing a bomb and then very likely jumping across the room, reaching the ceiling, why isn't his jump any better then Megaman's?Been asking that question since YD Classes V1b was in the works
Because if highjumps were given to everyone with highjumps, there would be no cliff they could not scale.
(click to show/hide)
Personally, I think giving him a high jump would be silly, but if it's somehow deemed balanced, then I could really care less.
But this is also a boss who only appeared in his original game and its remake, for over 20 years he only did 2 things, jump high and throw bombs, and he. I can see not giving everyone the super high jumping, but with Bomb it just doesn't feel right without it. And if it is a balance issue with him maybe make it so his alt fire can only be used at 1/2 HP, since I hear that was his desperation on hard mode anyway so he only used it when he was about to die.
Didn't he do that when he jumped?He had two jumps, normal low jumps, and high jumps which he did that after landing.
Needs more rotations.
The reason it needs to be changed is because it disrupts the entire game. Someone playing "dishonorably" with Skull Man is one thing, but if someone decides to troll with a Gemini army, it forces the entire room to drop what they're doing and take care of all the clones or they plain and simply can't continue playing. The clones are a massive interference for any game, in any mode, the second someone decides to be a douchenozzle and flood the arena with them. A Gemini clone army grinds any match to a halt.This is kind of late but...
op diveman .op diveman
op diveman
op diveman
Has this been known?
The other day, I was playing this mod and we were at CSCM26. When I climbed one of the towers outside, there was what apparently looked like a Tango Summon. I got a little more than annoyed because there was Tango already somewhere else in the map, and I thought Messatsu had changed it. Then I used Megaman and it was one of those Attack Item things.Well I went and checked, why bother with an icon for "Attack Item" it still Tango Roll.
Long story short: It annoyed me so much, that I went ahead and did this little thing:
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1887/aism.png)
Use it if you'd like. No credits required as it took a minute or two.
Well I went and checked, why bother with an icon for "Attack Item" it still Tango Roll.If Megaman picks it up, it's Tango Roll. If Bass picks it up, it's Treble Sentry. There's a reason I made that icon with both colors, dude.
Ah see I did as you said you had, I did it with Megaman class, so I didn't try with Bass.Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"Well I went and checked, why bother with an icon for "Attack Item" it still Tango Roll.If Megaman picks it up, it's Tango Roll. If Bass picks it up, it's Treble Sentry. There's a reason I made that icon with both colors, dude.
Also, if this was done to replace Treble Sentry, might as well do the same with Tango Roll to give fair advantages all around.
I thought that was purposeful...
As for bot rush, check the first post.But I did. I thought that was obvious from my message! Well...
Bumped, but I was wondering: Why must something nearly useless as Item 2 must replace E-Tanks on maps? I understand replacing the Proto and Bass Upgrades with the Power and Jet adaptors because here are classes of them, but E-Tank? Come one now, it breaks stuff on the maps, not to mention only the hero classes can use it.Item-2 can be quite useful for its speed. You travel faster than normal while using it, so it can help you escape. (We tried using it in an early Possession mode. It's quite fearsome. Sniper Joe can't use it now, though.)
That's all nice and cute, butQuote from: "Knux"Bumped, but I was wondering: Why must something nearly useless as Item 2 must replace E-Tanks on maps? I understand replacing the Proto and Bass Upgrades with the Power and Jet adaptors because here are classes of them, but E-Tank? Come on now, it breaks stuff on the maps, not to mention only the hero classes can use it.Item-2 can be quite useful for its speed. You travel faster than normal while using it, so it can help you escape. (We tried using it in an early Possession mode. It's quite fearsome. Sniper Joe can't use it now, though.)
it breaks stuff on the maps
Well, say you know where an E-Tank usually is in a map. When you get there, there's Item 2. You're screwed if you were being followed, with low HP or otherwise. And that is without mentioning the E-Tanks are usually placed in hard to reach spots. Getting to said spots for an Item 2 is not worth the trouble, IMO, even when you can use it.I can agree with Knux, perhaps the Item-2 can replace something else?
"Attack Unit"red:
I can agree with Knux, perhaps the Item-2 can replace something else?What would replace e-tanks, then? That's the more important issue.
That's an interesting list, but I wouldn't forget about strafe speeds as well. (You don't have to go list those, but considering them is important). Top's strafe speed is very high, so it's faster to get around using left and right. Napalm, on the other hand, has a very low strafe speed (since he's on treads).Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"I can agree with Knux, perhaps the Item-2 can replace something else?What would replace e-tanks, then? That's the more important issue.
What would replace e-tanks, then? That's the more important issue.
If that's the case... Why did you replace the sounds, then? I'm confused as to why the existing sounds would need replacements, be it original sounds or other games. I'm not sure what's being considered.
As for E-tanks, I could replace them with a slow, non-instant refilling tank. The standard E-tank is a bit of a huge advantage for the copy ability classes if left alone. (Savior's ideas are perhaps even more advantageous.)
Not sure what do with Charge at this point, although I'm aware he needs something.
If that's the case... Why did you replace the sounds, then? I'm confused as to why the existing sounds would need replacements, be it original sounds or other games. I'm not sure what's being considered.
...Is Darkman incredibly OP or is there some conspiracy?His shield hug kills you faster then Star Man's star crash, and his buster is fast firing and killing.
Quote from: "Daveris"...Is Darkman incredibly OP or is there some conspiracy?His shield hug kills you faster then Star Man's star crash, and his buster is fast firing and killing.
In fact, he was never particularly stealthy in any of the games.That depends on how stealthy you think turning into a log is.
If anything, Shadow Man, despite being Ninja-themed, is very unstealthy. He jumps around like a madman, throwing giant throwing stars at you. When he fights you again, he decides to ride on the back of a giant, fire-breathing robot frog that spits out hordes of smaller robots.
He's less "real ninja", and more "10-year-old's idea of a ninja."
The thing about classes is that it is relativity difficult to get people to actually play, or even host the mod itself, since it has to a lot with the community itself, and MOSTLY reputation. Since KY Classes came some time after YD classes, a good percantage of the community just says that KY "stole" YD Classes and made it his own, which really and truly ruins KY's reputation which further leads to the mod not being played and/or hosted. The main problem here is the community itself, KY has a valid reason to give up, since people judge mods/map packs/weapon packs based on the CREATOR and not the actual mod's/map pack's/weapon pack's content.
While this is true, if a few people do not like YD's Classes mod for some reason so the alternative is to play a different mod, such as KY Classes. The thing here is that KY Classes tries to emulate the NES closely, not too close while having a strong balance among it. While I still feel that the balance is slightly off, I would stick by KY classes, as AT LEAST, the creator KY, is reasonable when it comes to feedback coming from the community.
Eye did a patchy 8D
http://static.best-ever.org/wads/classe ... tch%21.pk3 (http://static.best-ever.org/wads/classes-ky-nesv3patch%21.pk3)
Enjoy, guise!
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I can't open it up in v4.
Stop at joking guys.... King Yamato left cutstuff since 2years ago and don't care about the game at all, he wont continue the mode too (i talk often with him and anyways, he wont come back, really)..
It's useless to make compatible a mode who will be only with robotmasters from mm1-6 and yep, King Yamato helped Fyone to continue the mode. (specialy with coding and mm7 weapons and some others things).
People doesnt like a rivalry between YDclass and Jclasse, i dont know why You want a compatible version of this mode, it could be a third megamanclasse mode (who will be outdated)....it's a ridiculous joke.
Haha.. haha.. no.
Some people would still prefer the original KY without the Justified touch.
Keep it open anyway tho, i'd take this over justified any day
I will lock this topic unless the current discussion ends. The current discussion has very little to do with KY Classes, and it is going absolutely no where productive. More over, we've already had a thread for this kind of discussion and it did not go very well because people were not prepared to discuss it civilly (if it even can be discussed civilly). Take these disputes elsewhere.