srFIXty - Straferun fix mod

[Orange juice :l]

Again, I don't see how straferunning is an "input barrier." I Googled the term and it doesn't seem to be much of a common game design term. I honestly find the whole method of straferunning rather intuitive and satisfying, so I don't see why it's the first one on the chopping block. A lot of games have run buttons or methods, even if they aren't the most straightforward. Just a few I can immediately think of are the 3D Mario (Jumping) and Zelda (Rolling, backwalking) games and most 2D Megaman Games (Slide, Dash, etc)

[Ivory]

The things you mentioned were intended gameplay features. The thing you are defending is unintended. It has more in common with SSB Melee's wave dashing than anything you mentioned. Moving faster by strafe running is one thing, but when you start making use of binds to move even faster, hence SR50, then that's a different story entirely. As much as you want to pretend to can justify this, you can't. You and Bik are just blowing this out of proportion.

Part of the reason the Mega Man class moves slower than doom guy and MM8BDM maps make use of air control is to help regulate how fast you go. In Doom, it's crazy how fast you go due to the lack of aircontrol and running 50MPH. The other half was because Mega Man never ran 50MPH in the games.

Also, just because you can't google it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it isn't an issue.

[Orange juice :l]

Meanwhile, Wave Dashing has helped Melee become a hugely successful game, even when compared to Brawl. SR50 is admittedly gimmicky, but even though unintended, it's still wholly a part of Zandronum. SR40, on the other hand, is as simple as holding down two buttons. I don't know about anybody else, but I prefer being able to do something in my game's downtime, minor though it may be, rather than idly holding down one button.

[MusashiAA]

So I like this discussion.

I have never heard of SR50 until recently. In fact, OJ explained it to me while we were watching a speedrun of the Plutonia campaign. We agreed that it wasn't a bug or an exploit because it's in the game, and if it's in the game, it's fair to use it, much like backstrafing in Zelda or Half-Life 2. Weapon slots are both an intended feature and an integral part of the gameplay. Binds are an intended feature, too.

But from a design standpoint, it's completely the opposite for SR50's case, and I support the removal of it.

Why? Because it's valid to assume that marginally being able to circumvent something as basic as the movement speed limit is a DESIGN OVERSIGHT. And with this being an ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game, design oversights are considered exploits because you're doing something that puts you outside of the intended boundaries of the gameplay design and on a higher skill floor than intended (not for the average player, but for ALL players), and as such, these are fixed or, in some small cases, integrated into the gameplay design, thus expanding it and adapting it to the new addition: the latter happens when both the oversight is so easily accessible and so game-changing that most players use it, and as such make it an integral part of the experience. SR50 isn't either, but it technically affects the most basic aspect of gameplay, and should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

For me, this isn't an issue regarding making the game easier: it's an issue regarding fixing a minor oversight.

To be honest, I think Bik is right saying that it can barely be called an exploit, since it's been around for 20 years. But I think it hasn't been removed or fixed because it's so minor, and it has been irrelevant to the growth of the game. Yet it's still an oversight, and those must be fixed. Plus, 8BDM is a different and more recent scenario, and as such it's up to us to fix it for either the sake of completion or for actual concern about the integrity of the gameplay ("regardless of how minor it is, it's still an issue").

[Orange juice :l]

The problem with SR50 is that it's inclusion... isn't much of an issue. If you're playing LMS or DM, the inability to aim is crippling. In Possession, running in a straight line is generally inferior to serpentine dodging. I'd go on, but I will admit that as such, most people would just as much not mind SR50's removal. I don't even use it, so I suppose I'll just let that go as it will.

Of course, the mod in question also removes SR40, which I feel I've elaborated on a good deal already.

[ice]

Im just going to come out and say it, OJ, you're making it sound as if this idea forces you to run only foreward and disables straifing, turning, and jumping altogether. All it does is simply remove the minor speed boost, thats it. You can still straifrun, you can still side step, you can still turn. Really forcing you to run at straifrun speed wont even effect straifrunning period, just staight movement.
.
Im ok with the mod, just not ok with adding it to the core due to that making yet another group of players leave the comunity

[Orange juice :l]

...That's now what I'm implying at all. What I'm trying to say is that this mod removes an element of depth that has no good reason to be removed.

[Ivory]

I think what some of us are trying to get at is: It is not an element of depth, or at least, a really good one. A good element of depth can also make for good selling points to some degree.

Play 8 bit Mega Man in a deathmatch environment!
Over 50+ stages!
Numerous weapons based on copy powers from MM1-8 (including Powered Up!)
Use assist items to help you in a jam or get you to new heights!
Make use of special properties of weapons to help you out! Scorch Wheel allows you to run a bit faster while the shield is out, or use Leaf Shield to deflect certain projectiles!
Single player bosses for every chapter! Including a few secret ones.
More than than meets the eye, custom skins, custom mappacks and even custom gamemodes to try and enjoy!
Strafe moving left or right makes you move slightly faster!

Yeah... when I put it like that, it sounds really, really dumb.

[Orange juice :l]

Now that's just being absurd. If we're going to start selling games by their minor mechanics lest they be axed, why not include jumping, weapon switching, or being able to stand on other players' heads in that list? I think it'd look nicer.

[Ivory]

No, I think you completely fail to see how much you blow this issue out of proportion.

[Orange juice :l]

Yes, it's a small issue. That's one of the reasons that removing it will simply cause more upset than it's worth. Leaving it in lets people move slightly faster if they're willing to put slightly more effort into the game, and they get to stick with what they were used to. Removing it gives people "simpler movement."

[Ivory]

The fact you are fighting so defensively over this matter is over blowing the issue out of proportion. Trying to argue that holding down two movement keys is more effort is completely insane. It isn't hard, you aren't stretching your hand across a keyboard (unless you have one really weird control scheme), it's still about as much effort as moving your mouse or holding down the fire button.

Then the idea of even standardizing movement speed so would go just as fast if you just went straight? No matter how you look at it, your argument can't be taken seriously.

[Myroc]

...That's now what I'm implying at all. What I'm trying to say is that this mod removes an element of depth that has no good reason to be removed.

I'd go the opposite route and say that this mod removes an element of depth that has no good reason to exist to begin with.

[Orange juice :l]

Eh, I suppose I just like arguing, as for why I'm fighting for it so much.

And yes, it's not hard. But I suppose if the community can band together under one unified flag, they can do away with the scourge that is holding down two keys that blemishes the master race of a single key and run in world peace.

Whoops, I blew part of my argument out of proportion again. Sorry about that.

[MusashiAA]

You know, rocket-jumping added levels of depth into TF, because it was integrated into the gameplay design. People found out about it, and since it was so easy and intuitive to perform, people made it part of the experience.

Is that really the case with this? Is it intuitive and easy to perform? Like, press A to continue intuitive, deadbrain intuitive? Does it have any potential for adding a level of depth? Like, more kaboom means more jump height kind of potential? There's no other reason to not remove this other than not pissing off a small group of players.

It's nothing personal: an exploit must be fixed, regardless of how small it is. On the contrary, you seem to be taking this very personally, which makes your argument look, at the very least, doubtful.