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Messages - LlamaHombre

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The full pack is uploaded here:

As stated in the OP, give us judges about a month to figure all this out. There's a lot of (good!) maps in here that will require some discussion, playtesting, deliberation, all those fancy words. Most of us are busy throughout the start of this month for various reasons, so the end of the month and the beginning weeks of March are probably where we'll be really putting our pens to work.

Thanks everyone for the support! We'll be back with you shortly.

To any MWS mappers, I'm extending your deadline until February 10th, 11:59:59 PM. when I wake up on Sunday the 11th I should have your maps.

For everyone else, deadline is in an hour and a half. I will accept any maps I see by the time I wake up (circa 10 AM est, 12 hours after posting this)

Thanks all!

Events / Re: [MAPS] MM8BDM V6C "Bounty" - Signups open! Deadline 01/Feb/2024
« on: September 30, 2023, 02:53:32 AM »
All of the below data will be reported based on the votes received from the two surveys. All things considered, this went really smoothly!

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Something to open with right out the gate is that I'm not making another Discord server for this. Put simply, I don't want to moderate it, especially with my role as a judge demanding limited information given to me. Please understand and by all means, discuss the competition and your maps in places that I and the other judges cannot see.

I've updated the original post with the rules. Please read before signing up and working on your maps!
Your deadline is February 1st 2024, 11:59:59 PM EST (Eastern Standard Time).

Events / Re: [MAPS] MM8BDM V6C "Bounty" - UPDATE! Survey 2 out now!
« on: September 26, 2023, 03:00:34 AM »
Hey all, a quick update since I'm sleepy.

I've closed Survey 1 since it's been nearly three days and the vote rate has slowed down significantly. I received 51 responses, which is a lot! It's enough to make some informed decisions for Bounty, and regardless of the incoming results I think there is at least one map that I am safe locking in. You'll hear more about the results for Survey 1 after I close Survey 2 on Friday.

Thank you all so much! I hope you all are prepared for...

Survey 2:

This polls the most popular write-in votes. Please fill it out, and thanks again!

Events / [MAPS] MM8BDM V6C "Bounty" - Signups open! Deadline 01/Feb/2024
« on: September 23, 2023, 07:57:15 PM »
Hey all you Mega Man fans! Are you ready for another mapping compo?

"Bounty" is a map competition aimed at replacing four maps for future versions of MM8BDM: MM2CRA, MM6WIN, MM2FLA, and MMWTMWS.

Download here:

Without further ado, the rules are as follows:

- Highest scored maps of each stage will replace the current core map.
- Highest scored map overall will be awarded with a MM8BDM Architect Medal for your forum account.
- Other winner maps will warrant a MM8BDM Architect Runner-Up Medal for your forum account.

Signup Rules:
- Signups are mostly a formality to help me keep track of everything from an organizational standpoint. 9/10 times I will take submitted maps.
- Signups should be done via this thread.
- You can have others sign up on your behalf, so long as they include a full copy of your signup and you are not banned from the forums.
- Signups should include the following: your name, and which maps you are signing up for. 
- You can sign up and submit at the same time.
- You must sign up only for the following maps: MM2FLA, MM2CRA, MM6WIN, MMWTMWS.
- You can edit your signup, but inform me if you do so.
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Map Making Rules:
- A submitted map must be made by you. If you choose to partner with another mapper, they must submit the same wad as you.
- Maps must be in standard MM8BDM format, and should be designed as if they were MM8BDM v6b maps. For more details on what that all entails, check the spoiler below.
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Custom Content Rules:
- You should prioritize the textures that are already in the map! But additional textures are allowed so long as they supplement the existing textures and are easily sourced to a canon Mega Man game.
- New props, including enemy props and gimmicks, may be added. These are subject to the same canon checks that the textures are.
- Custom stage music may be added, but it will not remain if your map is a winner. Boss, intense, and victory themes will be removed instantly.
- Custom content (including props, textures, scripts) must not overwrite any content already in MM8BDM v6b.

Map Submission Rules
- Please submit your maps via Cutstuff PM or Discord DM to LlamaHombre. The former is preferred, and maps can be sent via websites like MEGA or allfearthesentinel.
- If somebody else signed up on your behalf, you may submit yourself or through that person.
- Your map must be either a .WAD or .PK3 file containing your map and all added custom content.
- Your file must be no bigger than 5MB.
- Finished maps must be submitted before the deadline: February 1st 2024, 11:59:59 PM EST (Eastern Standard Time).
- Finished maps can be updated and resubmitted before the deadline.

Judging Rules
- Maps will be judged according to their general strength as a map for MM8BDM v6b / v6c.
- This means a number of factors and modes should be considered. Deathmatch, Last Man Standing, Duel, Teamplay, etc.
- I'll host testing sessions later, likely focused around DM, Scorched Earth, and Duel to make sure every map is tested thoroughly.
- Maps will be judged on the following categories (stolen inspired by CMCP/TTT judging...):
 A) Layout/Spawns (good map structure, good map flow,good spawns for teamplay, good weapon/energy layout). Worth 50 points.
 B) Visuals (good texturing, good art style). Worth 30 points.
 C) Authenticity (representative of the original stage. shows both creativity and restraint as needed). Worth 10 points.
 D) Functionality (working scripts and no map bugs). Worth 10 points.
- Total score is out of 100 points.
- Judges will have one month to finish scoring, subject to extensions or truncations depending on what is needed.
- If judges suspect a map was made to troll the contest, they can vote to ban the map from the contest. This vote must be unanimous.

- LlamaHombre
- Freems
- King Dumb
- pegg

Old OP and background below:
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- Seafra Yeager
- Extus
- Thunderono
- CutmanMike
- Duora Super Gyro
- Mendez
- ForteGigasGospel
- Derek

- Derek
- Duora Super Gyro

- Russel
- Galactan
- Bawby
- Korby

MMWTMWS (last day Feb 10!)
- Extus
- Duora Super Gyro
- Kapus
- Pr. Gibus
- FTX6004
- Russel

Maps and signups above! Submitted entries are given colored names.

Bugs/Suggestions / Re: Teamspawn feedback
« on: August 12, 2023, 05:52:06 PM »
I'll keep this brief to reduce the amount of salt and vitriol I can possibly put in this post (and reduce the number of times I have to edit my own wording), but the Light Team spawns on MM3TOP could be better.

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The room you spawn in is one of the most dangerous, easily exploitable rooms on the entire map, with a (campable) ladder being your only way out that leads to high ground, with your only way out to low ground being this thin hallway towards the staircase setpiece with Water Wave. Wily Spawn's high ground has multiple clear vantage points over this area, and as you can see from the diagram above, Cossack Spawns here. Holding this room is nigh-impossible, and your routes out are treacherous, so players are forced to leave basically immediately.

In addition, vanilla players are starved of resources from this spawn. They have immediate access to Shadow Blade, but Wily is not too far from retrieving it either. Wily, however, gets Spark Shock, Water Wave, Drill Bomb, and Bass Buster all just within their warehouse. Since the spawns line the entire warehouse, the entire enemy team is likely to have a diverse set of ranged options to deal with people fleeing from Light spawn, even if Light members are heading towards desirable weapons like Top Spin in the middle or their own Drill Bomb near the northwest building. Light may be able to make it to these high and central areas faster, but these areas are extremely open and their paths to reach them are significantly less safe than Wily's paths.

I believe this is a bandaid solution with no true resolution to the problem (I do not believe this map with its current layout is capable of having "balanced" team spawns) but here's my best shot at making Light team less completely miserable.

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This gives Light a multitude of options for where to go, and gives them a spot to actually hold for some time since it overlooks mid. I still consider it somewhat treacherous and exploitable, since this high ground is a straight line and most of their surroundings is pit, but it is undeniably stronger high ground from mid's perspective than Wily's is.

This is my least favorite map in the game, so I'm open to some pushback or some "with a grain of salt" thinking, but I do believe I have some observable and actionable critiques here.

Bugs/Suggestions / Re: Teamspawn feedback
« on: March 17, 2023, 08:25:36 PM »
MMBKIN remains untouched as of v6b, so I'm going to put down in writing that the team spawns here are pretty one-sided towards Wily.

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Light's only reliable path forward is down into the lowest elevation area onto the entire map, which they are unable to escape from without passing by at least some of Wily team by taking the stairs near Ice Wall. Their access to mid is either through the sightline-blocked drop down near Proto Buster, or down the hall and through the narrow door on the north side. If they want any sort of high ground, they must go north through mid/low ground, jump up a staircase to reach Flame Blast, then go through another chokepoint (either the one they are likely being shot from through, or the one closer to Remote Mine). Since the map is small, it is likely an aggressive Wily player will already be there and ready to punish their approach.

Wily spawns on the highest point on the map, and can easily reach as far forward as Pharaoh Shot and Remote Mine in the time it takes Light Team to gain any ground. Map control becomes effortless for Wily because they already have access to the largest sightlines on the map.

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This is a proposed solution that would rotate both teams around the center, putting Light closer to Flame Blast and Wily closer to Dust Crusher. This is a slight nerf to Wily and a big buff to Light, but should put them in relatively better playing fields. Wily now has to jump up to reach and claim their previous highest point (but still have access to all the perks that area comes with!), but Light has more immediate access to both the higher and lower layers of mid as well as a safer room to play from in the Remote Mine area. If Light puts up an amazing offensive front however, Wily will have way more room to duck and leave than Light does currently, as they can safely move through not only the lowest channel but through lower mid as well.

Cossack and King spawns are sort of an afterthought here. Adjust as needed.
And since MM7SHA also remains untouched, I've gone ahead and added a visual to that post as well detailing what I'd do for a v6c edit.

Maps / Re: LlamaHombre's One-Off Maps (Current: guest MM2QUI updates)
« on: November 03, 2022, 03:25:09 AM »
Updating this topic with a guest star appearance from MM2QUI - Quick Man.
I'm mostly going to be stepping out of the way here and letting my REALPack partner Thunder explain what's going on, but I'm here mostly to explain why it's here. In short, he made this and wanted to get some testing + feedback going into v6b and later versions of core, but didn't want to add yet another map wad to servers. It makes sense to me, and since my trust in him as a mapper and a person is unflappable, it's going in here. This is probably going to be a one-time thing, so don't expect random updates to other non-LlamaHombre maps in the future.
Next version of this pack will include updates to MM10DW3, MM2BUB2 (aiming to eventually remove the "2"), and maybe more, but I haven't had time for any of that yet. So for now, enjoy the bonus! I sure do.

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Maps / Re: LlamaHombre's One-Off Maps (Current: MM10DW3 updates)
« on: October 02, 2022, 11:37:25 PM »
Updating this topic with some some changes-in-testing for MM10DW3 - Wily Station Ascent. This is a map I actually sometimes see in servers, but one that has a bit of grime on it. I blame a lot of that on not 100% knowing what I wanted this map to be when I started out, and going along with it even after having a fuller picture in mind.

Main changes:
- General terrain update: map height is overall shorter, jumps still create valuable routes but not as mandatory to get around. Moving around should be way more fun now
- Two new areas on the north and southeast sides to make traversal easier and less chokepointy
- Cut down on number of cross-map sightlines to better promote fights and cqc
- Water layer slightly reworked, traded a couple of open holes in the main path for glass chutes along the side
- Teleporter leads directly to BHB instead of in the water section

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For my own convenience, I'm bundling this with MM2BUB2 above for a couple reasons.
1) These are all tests and not finalized (I will return to MM2BUB2 when I have time / will), and having a .pk3 name more indicative of that helps.
2) I'd like to eventually get around to other experiments (MM10COM comes to mind) and having all that in one spot also helps.


Bugs/Suggestions / Re: Teamspawn feedback
« on: June 11, 2022, 12:34:49 AM »
On-off topic, I remember toying around with team spawns a little on v6a MM7SHA so that teams don't "spawn with a crosshair over a player" and while that's true, I stopped that, there really doesn't have to be much effort placed on either team to recreate that same effect.

Worth possibly looking into rotating Wily around the side of the building, that way they start in about the same spot but avoid immediate sightlines on spawn easier.

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Bugs/Suggestions / Re: Bars and Numbers: a New Default UI?
« on: February 22, 2022, 02:12:53 AM »
Submitted my survey. A couple of personal points, mostly to jot my thoughts down. For perspective, I've chosen Vanilla with an open mind to change, but not seeing the change I imagined from any of these options.

- Though subjective, I greatly prefer NES style bars to the alternatives shown. I have in the past (circa-v8b classes) used HUDShot, but since we adopted health numbers officially I haven't returned and prefer the simplicity and versatility of the current bars' looks. I'm willing to (reluctantly) play softball with the Genesis style bars, but would still greatly prefer not to use them. I think Health/Ammo numbers have reduced the number of situations where the black separations in the bar actually hide information (e.g. when you have one more Screw Crusher but you think you're empty). I understand the point mentioned in Genesis "Goals" but have more recently only come into contact with that during single player campaign bosses, where they live with a sliver of health. Even then, we custom bars for the final boss so something like Genesis would actually be fitting there. In every other situation I can, if need be, use the numbers.

- The MM8 style bars are very ugly in my opinion - the 8 bit style of this game does not suit them well and even in other huds like HUDBall I'd prefer anything else.

- Who is this bar change for anyways? The NES bars hit the nostalgia and coolness factor of "oh man that's cool, they got the health bars straight from the games in here?" and health/ammo numbers already fix the problems that the other bars will fix as well. You could argue that the health and ammo numbers are kinda tacked on, and yeah they are. I'm not gonna deny that at all. But it's not like the other bars fix that either - there will always be more precision in the numbers, and more novelty from the NES bars. Will the casual player (numbers don't matter so much) get that much more value from the other bars? And will the seasoned player (numbers matter more) ever want to turn numbers off?

- I use Vertical, and have always found discomfort with Horizontal bars. No matter which direction they deplete, it doesn't quite feel right. I respect people who do use them, and have never advocated for things to change to fit my standards (which I wouldn't have really), but they've never sat right. As a result, I really do just sorta need an option to have my bars to deplete from the top and end at the bottom.

- I think closer to my crosshair, as my eye travels away from my crosshair, what needs to hit me first in terms of "can I continue this fight I'm in?" is my health. Ammo is important as well, but I trust my periphery with weapon ammo % more than I would health, where each point can matter against certain weapons.

- I need some selling on the gap between bars present in compromise. I don't understand what use it serves, and it just clutters more of the screen.

- Anarchy looks clumsy aesthetically. The squared white boxes around everything don't do it for me, and a newcomer is going to have very little idea what any of the numbers on screen mean. Health/Ammo numbers are now mandatory, and are both buried in between visual information and tucked into the border of the screen. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 means less when a user rebinds keys to make using slots more ergonomic, and plenty of maps leave some numbers unlit. Possibly known, but switching from Buster to another weapon results in a short flicker in the ammo number Infinity (which I thought was 00 for a while) before the other number comes in. Not having items leaves multiple empty boxes on screen. etc. etc.

- Questions a newcomer are more likely to ask (as someone who's been introducing more of his friends to the game recently) are things like: "What weapons do I have?" "Do I have other items to switch to?" "Can I swap to a specific weapon (say, Hard Knuckle) quickly?" and so on. None of these are answered by the HUDs provided, and even Anarchy which tries to fill in the gaps some fails to answer questions more on a newcomer's mind than "do I have a slot 3 weapon to switch to?". This question itself becomes less relevant in modded play anyways. Vanilla play itself is all about understanding the inventory and item layout on the map, and a newcomer can become encumbered by all of that when they're unsure what tools they do or don't have. An improvement on the HUD then, could reduce the knowledge barrier required to dive deeper into vanilla MM8BDM, or mods where a number of weapons and inventory management are required.

- How much is the 8bdm dev team familiar with Zandronum's Alternative HUD? You can enable it in Options -> Advanced Options -> HUD Options -> Alternative HUD. While definitely not made for MM8BDM, there are some extremely cool parts of this HUD that it seems are 1) important to newcomers 2) useful even to seasoned players 3) relatively nonintrusive and able to be built around the current HUD. A screenshot included:
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Note the inventory shown in relative detail on the bottom corners. I think if the HUD does develop, in an ideal world it should be trying to incorporate the existing HUD bars into this alternative HUD's inventory style. This could then still be an option (that could still be enabled by default!), or bound to a key similarly to how we add Map Cards to the HUD with MAPCARD command. Curious what could be done within the MM8BDM team's limits.

I like the transparency, and even though I disagree with the options provided here and would prefer to stick to v6a HUD over these options, I understand the plea and am interested in where this heads.

Events / Re: Teamplay, Textures, Tango - A MM8BDM team mapping competition!
« on: November 02, 2021, 05:43:14 PM »
Thunder did a stunning job with pretty much everything he put into the map, from the general concept to the visual identity to overall direction. I'm on this map, and I'm not downplaying my own contributions to it at all, but this map would be very dramatically different without him. What Spectral Echo ended up being was something extremely special, something one perspective alone cannot get you - we both learned a lot from making this map, and we're pretty much both in agreement with our enthusiasm for MM8BDM mapping going forward.

I don't have much of novel to add from the layout-wise end of things that could be added - Thunder did a pretty good job of summing everything up - so I'm just going to talk a little bit about texturework, texture preparation, and so on. It can be a lot of fun if you devote some time to it, and it's really damn important since most people will notice odd visuals before they notice an odd layout. Some of this may be no-brainer information, but with another Jam on the way I'd like for my posts here and in CMCP to provide valuable information to new mappers or mappers that want to learn some intermediate tricks.

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Thank you to Mendez for hosting, thank you to the judges for the very generous scores, thank you to the other contestants for making some fun maps, and thank you Thunder for being the best!

Maps / LlamaHombre's One-Off Maps (Current: guest MM2QUI updates)
« on: October 26, 2021, 03:17:27 AM »
Hey, LlamaHombre here. I made the CMCP04 (Echelon and Flow) map present in Sweatpack and Catalyst Series 1, I'm as of writing this post still in judging for the TTT map competition for the map I made with my bestie Thunderono, and in general I'm continuing to make maps that I grow increasingly more fond of and proud of as time moves on. So as per tradition, I'm looking back on pretty much every old map I've ever made with an iron pick and breaking them into my new standards! yayyy

Thankfully a good number of my core maps are ones that I hold in relatively-to-high regard, with MM2DW2 being a staple in both casual and comp play since its v5a overhaul (no changes needed there) and MM9TOR being my baby, my favorite map I've ever made (that I would still probably poke at just a little haha). Bringing my old maps up to my modern day practices and whatnot is something I enjoy doing a lot and I figured this time I'd share what I've got just for public discussion and to try and get things in a hunky-dory space. I have just one map today but I'll probably update with some other ones later on down the line, or put anything here that I don't think quite fits into REALPack (which you should also check out, since the maps in it are great!).

This is all just a whole bunch of words saying "I really wanted to make bubbleman better without designing a brand new underwater map jesus christ so here's what I've got" lol

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I did design this as a direct replacement, but do think it is a dramatic change from the existing map both visually and structurally so I'm releasing it first and foremost as its own thing. If it makes it into core, great! If not then I still don't regret doing this, I'm a very big fan of how it turned out. Hopefully you all are too! Let me know.

Credit to Molly for some of the extra tiles used here, I think they look great and match the existing NES tiles about as well as anyone would hope. Credit to TrojanHorse711 for the swing version of Bubble Man's theme used in the map, I think it fits the "fresh coat of paint" feel I had while working on this map.


Events / Re: Cutstuff Mapping Jam 7: Jamomma
« on: October 25, 2021, 09:31:22 PM »
Who's jam?

Yeah sure I'm down (and this time I'm gonna finish my PBJ map too)

Events / Re: [EXPANSION] HAUNTED 8-bit deathmatch: Halloween returns!
« on: October 17, 2021, 09:21:16 PM »
I planned on helping out on the map-side but between TTT and a recent development in my real life I'm gonna miss the deadline unless I make something pretty terrible. Wishing everyone luck!

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