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September 14, 2016, 06:43:33 PM
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Offline PacManFan

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Is it just me...
« on: September 14, 2016, 06:43:33 PM »
Or do all of these 4 games have such similar reception of mixed to "terrible" apparently:

Mega Man 8
Super Mario Sunshine
Pac-Man World 3
Sonic Lost World



Okay, I get the voice acting in Mega Man 8 was an utter joke but... Was it really a BAD game? It's my personal favorite in the series since it felt more of "gradually" getting harder as opposed to MM1 which personally turned me off from the series for about 3 days at the time. ((I'm sorry, but at the time - just a few seconds into Ice Man and Guts Man and I had to quit before I lost my sanity. Fire Man and Elec Man weren't much better for someone growing up with the Super Mario GBA ports and Pac-Man World 2.)) Yes, I had the Anniversary Collection as a child on my GameCube, Sue me.

September 14, 2016, 08:03:27 PM
Reply #1

Offline fortegigasgospel

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2016, 08:03:27 PM »
If it wasn't for Mega Man's and Light's horrible voice acting 8 would have been probably much better received then it was, everyone else's voices were at least passable.
Mega Man 7 is generally viewed to be horrible (along with X7) while the 8th games both weren't really enough to get over everyone's salt of the previous game.

September 14, 2016, 09:18:43 PM
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Offline Korby

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2016, 09:18:43 PM »
Most opinions I've heard on Sunshine lately are fairly positive, so I'm not sure about that one.
From my experiences in MM8, it's not terrible but it's not exactly the most exciting Megaman game. I'd still play 9 over it any day.

September 14, 2016, 09:34:58 PM
Reply #3

Offline Geno

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2016, 09:34:58 PM »
While I haven't played a lot of Sonic Lost World, and I'm personally not too fond of Pac-Man World 3 (for the same reasons why I'm not too fond of Sonic Adventure 2), I can definitely see what you're getting at

I personally think Mega Man 8 is one of the best Mega Man games out there,haha
As I observed a while ago (dunno if I posted it here), but I looked at every single (non-licensed) platform classic Mega Man game, and I realized that
Pretty much all of them have at least one instance of a really annoying level design, or a boss that's only weak to a specific weapon, or a part of a level that requires a weapon use to pass, when you can very realistically be completely out of energy and with no way to replenish it, or revisiting a level could be a requirement for 100%, no matter what you do

While looking at each game (the 11 main ones and the 5 gb ones), I found out that Mega Man 8 is the only one that has none of that at all

the things i see people complain about in MM8, are the voices and the snowboard sections
disliking the snowboard sections just means you don't like new things, and it's the same as hating on SMB2 or Zelda II because they're different
and, well, sure, I could understand why people would hate the voices. I personally love them, and like them way more than their Japanese equivalents, but silly voices probably aren't everyone's cup of tea. voice clips and new gameplay should not be a reason to hate the game

Really, considering cutscenes and different gameplay are also why people hate Super Mario Sunshine, that game and Mega Man 8 have a lot of things in common, haha

wow, i wrote too much about megaman 8

EDIT: wow, new posts happening
Mega Man 7 is generally viewed to be horrible
this, and probably some of the MM8 (and MM&B) hate, is probably purely because they don't play exactly like Mega Man 2. I find Mega Man 2 to be really flawed and overrated, and the later games definitely improved on it. Sure, MM2 is a good game, but it certainly isn't the best game in the series

EDIT2: wow, i figured i'd say something stupid, whatever

September 14, 2016, 09:51:39 PM
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Offline Korby

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
disliking the snowboard sections just means you don't like new things, and it's the same as hating on SMB2 or Zelda II because they're different
This is an incredibly baseless argument and invalidates someone's opinion on the design of the segments.
The snowboard sections come out of nowhere and completely change up the mechanics of the game. That in and of itself is not a terrible thing, but these sections in particular are very annoying.
If the sections were done better, I would have absolutely no problem with them. For example, look at City Escape in Sonic Adventure 2. The very first level in this game has a snowboard section and it's a blast to play. There's no punishment for not turning when you're supposed to or for going slow. You can simply have a good time and go fast.
Megaman 8's snowboard sections are obnoxious memory games in which you're constantly soaking damage from the enemies everywhere and making incredibly tight jumps in a slippery game engine, and the punishment for a mistake is more often than not instant-death.
For a more relevant example than a Sonic game, look at the Speeder Bike sections in Overdrive Ostrich's stage  in MMX2. You go fast, you shoot things, all is good. Very few opportunities to actually die; The worst that generally happens is you get dismounted and have to go back for a new bike or just go on without it.
I'd cite Waveman as well, but I'm not familiar enough with MM5 to really provide an opinion on that.

So no, disliking the snowboard sections doesn't "just mean you don't like new things." If anything, it "just means you don't like poorly designed things."

September 15, 2016, 12:00:31 AM
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Offline Dittoman

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2016, 12:00:31 AM »
Can confirm Wave Man's stage was an absolute pain. You couldn't even pause the game during the Wave Bike section and enemies come in fast and from everywhere, making the section feel very trial-and-errorish on your first couple of tries. Classic Mega Man and vehicles don't go together very well. 

And can someone tell me why MM7 is seen to be so bad? Most of the complaints I've heard were about Auto, Turbo Man's stage and the Wily Capsule (and sometimes I hear a complaint about the English ending), but that can't be enough to completely ruin a game, right? Is there something I'm missing?

September 15, 2016, 05:31:35 AM
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Offline PacManFan

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2016, 05:31:35 AM »
One mechanic or part that is somewhat frusterating  isn't enough to ruin a whole game.

Pac-Man World 2 had that Clyde Boss, and Starfy's QTE ((and even Rock Paper Scissors segment)) is flat out brutal... But they can be beaten. I don't like the snowboard segments either, but it doesn't ruin the whole game for me. I thought 9, to me anyway wasn't bad but kinda meh... My main complaint being "RIP Charge Shot/Slide" as the games in the Mega Man series I mostly enjoy have those abilities. It may sound kinda stupid but it's just me, I don't mean anything against anyone.

Don't forget Sunshine's Imfamous "chuckster" segment... It STILL doesn't make the game bad, IMO.

September 15, 2016, 07:22:38 PM
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Offline fortegigasgospel

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2016, 07:22:38 PM »
And can someone tell me why MM7 is seen to be so bad? Most of the complaints I've heard were about Auto, Turbo Man's stage and the Wily Capsule (and sometimes I hear a complaint about the English ending), but that can't be enough to completely ruin a game, right? Is there something I'm missing?
I can't say the problem with Auto being, Turbo has a section with tires going over with this one really frustrating jump where you have to get over a spike pit and very little room between tires coming at you to jump it, you can use the super armor but this specific jump is coming from a spot you need to slide under the tires (and you can't slide with the armor on), and then not too long after there is an all new quick beam section.
As for the ending, Mega Man pulls out his buster to Wily saying "I should have done this a long time ago" which Wily responds "Y-you can't hurt me, you're a robot" in absolute panic. Queue the differences, in Japan Mega Man said "..............." as he comes to the realization that Wily is right and he would have defied the first rule of robotics before Treble comes in to warp Wily away and Bass arrives, in the US version they wanted Mega Man to sound cool and edgy so he instead said slowly "I AM MORE THEN A ROBOT, DIE WILY!" and actually began charging a shot which he fired as Treble warped off with Wily. So the US version of MM7 has Mega completely break character and attempt to kill Wily.

September 16, 2016, 02:53:55 PM
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Offline Promestein

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 02:53:55 PM »
This is an incredibly baseless argument
I'd argue that it isn't all that baseless, actually. A lot of the common criticisms of Mega Man 8 boil down to "it isn't NES Mega Man". People complaining that it isn't 8-bit, that you need to use special weapons to advance through some robot master stages, that you can't pick from all eight robot masters at the start, that there aren't any E tanks, that it refills your weapons after you die, that there's voice acting period (not just that it's bad), that there are FMV cutscenes, and even that "it isn't on a Nintendo console".

That said, I wouldn't say that people who dislike the snowboarding sections are just salty because they're new additions. I'd instead say that they haven't realized the trick to those sections, or they just feel that doing the same gimmick three times was a bit much. They're quite easy as long as you do them right, no real memorization required. Not like those horrible X series Ride Chaser stages.

September 18, 2016, 06:27:58 PM
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Offline Heihachi_73

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2016, 06:27:58 PM »
What's wrong with Megaman 7? Aside from Dr. Wily and Slash Man's cheap attacks... Yes, and that stupid part of Turbo Man's stage which requires almost pixel-perfect timing and jumping (the Quick Man-wannabe section is nothing compared to that). And the letdown boss that is Mash. No fighting classic Robot Masters in the robot museum "stage" (after just seeing Wily steal Guts Man), just a clown bot which is weak to the Danger Wrap of all things. I dismissed 8 altogether as it didn't even feel like a Megaman (classic) game to me, the only thing I remember it for is the animated intro and the weird pseudo-3D styling it had (whereas 7's 16-bit sprites actually looked OK and not overcomplicated).

At least 7 kept everything somewhat similar, e.g. Rush adaptors, energy tanks, square platforms (no hills, which were only in the X series at that point - Auto's truck can't go over the blocky platforms and Auto ends up commenting that the road is too unstable); the only fault it had was the cramped space due to the larger sprites, although it could also be hand-waved by saying it's a spiritual successor to the Game Boy games as well, which had the same problem due to the small screen (and they also had the shop which the NES games lacked), and having just 4 Robot Masters at the start as well. Give RM7FC 16-bit shaded sprites of the same size as the original (e.g. Wily Wars style) and the SNES music and that is how 7 probably should have been (but still retaining the SNES feature of having 4+4 bosses, Auto's shop and flinching bosses etc. - in MM1 Cut Man and Elec Man suffer knockback when hit with a regular buster shot, even in the Wily Wars remake, there's no excuse to why 7FC's bosses don't flinch or reset their pattern when hit with a charged shot or their weakness).

About the "Die Wily!" part, that's clearly American-Kirby-is-Hardcore syndrome. There's no way Capcom Japan would have put that in there; it goes with every other stupid thing Capcom USA did to the series.

September 18, 2016, 08:49:11 PM
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Offline LemonPig

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2016, 08:49:11 PM »
"it isn't on a Nintendo console".
What. The. Heck.
Who hates a game for the console it is in?

September 20, 2016, 03:51:34 AM
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Offline Kapus

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2016, 03:51:34 AM »
Weird, I don't usually hear a lot of hate for Mega Man 7. Most opinions I hear are positive, if not just middling. Mega Man 8 tends to get a lot more flak from my experience, some of it justified (the infamous snowboarding segments). They're both really great games though, and I think MM8 is probably one of the best games in the classic series in terms of content and polish.

I don't know beans about Pac Man or that Sonic game, but Sunshine's reception has kind of changed as the years went on and people tend to appreciate it far more than they did several years ago. I think it's an awesome game and have always thought so, it's still my favorite 3D mario platformer.

September 20, 2016, 02:52:19 PM
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Offline CutmanMike

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 02:52:19 PM »
I still don't 8 is that great and prefer &B, but it's still not as bad as a lot of people say.  7 is really good, I wish there were more games in it's style. Also you can do some fun things with it.

September 21, 2016, 10:06:13 AM
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Offline Heihachi_73

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 10:06:13 AM »
So glad Dr. Wily isn't following Megaman everywhere instead of Shade Man. :lol:

Seriously though, why doesn't anyone ever hack Megaman 7? There are so many enemies and gimmicks recycled from the NES games that makes it probably the best Megaman game to ever make a ROM hack from, and the Super Nintendo doesn't have even half of the limitations that the original NES had (although I do see a palette glitch caused by the boss being with regular enemies).

September 21, 2016, 07:34:13 PM
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Offline PacManFan

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Re: Is it just me...
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 07:34:13 PM »
Ah yes, The "edgy" end to Mega Man 7 really was out of character. Didn't you just love when localization made things that way back then~? =P

Why don't people hack MM7? There probably aren't many great tools and level editing is probably far more complicated than Super Mario World map hacking probably from what I can guess.

And to be fair when I look back at Mega Man 1, I don't see it as flat out "bad" like I used to, but found that the weakest entry to me personally - It's like what people think of the original Metroid : still enjoyable but it has problems which kind of bog it down (If I made a list of my most hated VG enemies, those Foot Holders would be pretty high on the list mainly because you half the time fall through them X_x), The second game felt more like it was designed to be hard rather than being accidental which I appreciate more IMO. I'm still surprised people are willing to call Sunshine a bad game though *coughGameFAQscough* and part of me thinks the original lukewarm reception is why Mario is in a small "dork age" with the Wii U/NSMB era but that's besides the point.