Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests

[CarThief]

Hmm... Well i'd say the constant use of riotgun and said users winning almost all the time is a rather large issue. Reminds me of the various issues along the way we had... Meh, instakilling lightning arrows with 100+ damage, the 3 ice arrow spread that dealt some impressive damage partly, machinegun was once a utter monstrocity raping everyone in sight, hmm... The ghouls on the other hand seemed... acceptable, though Jitter got the nerfhammer in the face atleast twice, and the ghouls generally got upgrades from time to time...

Ah... Interesting times indeed. I'd still say, coming from a Jitterskull user, the riotgun is a SERVERE annoyance and threat, personally i'd love an update ASAP, but whatever works. Maybe if i had inspiration to make an map for GVH, but i want to make one what matches say, GVH31 in effort. Meh, i'm too ambitious for simple maps it seems. :P

Oh, some people are begging for riotgun/sjas nerfs, and would love a choke buff too, i know some people who apparently like to use choke, though he sucks, i guess he's decent to play and merely needs a buff. Aside sneak attacks, choke's good at those. Even i cant notice it. :P

[CutmanMike]

I've been playing a lot lately and it's been pretty balanced. This Marine onslaught I keep hearing from you apparently does not exist, or it happens very late where I'm already in bed.

Come to think of it, we are talking TLMS right? I completely forgot about TDM. I do want to balance that but I don't know what would need balancing (I'm guessing Sjas and Cyborg maybe), but I don't enjoy it as much so I can't tell cause I'm always in the TLMS server.

[Ivory]

I really doubt you could have both TLMS and TDM both balanced. They play so differently.

[CutmanMike]

Of course, which is why I would make it so if the game type was TDM, the classes would slightly change properties

[CarThief]

Spamming explosives, dieing, and spamming them again is a popular TDM strategy that's basically trading blows while giving more blows then you take. Maybe that could use some edits.

Well, not entirely sure about the other ghoul classes, but if i'm fighting the marine abusers who know how to aim so well they could CATCH ME WHILE I MOVE, frankly, i got no chance. And i'm damn good at my class, but thats just outta my class's reach. Not that it gets me to pick another class, as just about anything else aside lightning hunters are an easy lunch, ussually.

Speaking of TDM again, i guess Sjas would be the main problem, its fast, it doesnt have much of a delay, it can dodge anything, rush through things and kill anything along the way, hmm... Creepers on the other hand suck in TDM, Jitterskulls do a little less frags in total then an equal Sjas, and the other ghouls are just... normal for TDM.

The humans, hmm... to keep it short, the only things of significance are...
* The Marine's raw power and long-range ability, 10 grenades and he gets them all back on respawn, too. Highly spammable.
* The Steam cannon is as spammable as the grenades, sure to take out atleast one ghoul before dieing. Maybe two.

I wouldnt call the cyborg too cheap in TDM, he's slow, an easy target - especially for Sjas - and his projectile spam is highly dodgeable. Ground and air ghouls alike. Well i'd say TDM doesnt need significant changes if any at all. Though common thing that happens is due to the massive close range firepower of the ghouls, and note that the humans do not posses easy to pull off instakills, and they'll get swarmed and eaten before the ghoul wave is fully deflected. Of course they keep coming back so they HAVE to withdraw, lose their camping spot, or whatever possible defensive strategy they have.

My suggestion is to possibily give them a more... TDM-resistant defence that is not too annoying, or overpowered, to combat. Could be as simple as giving them a second chance, an one-time emergency teleport, other escape methods, TDM-unique items, ah, the possibilities... Or merely increase their defence during TDM, armor can have damage reducing properties, such as damagefactors and such, no?

And an idea that just popped up, how about taking a few of the marine's grenades in TDM and replacing those with a special grenade that does a large explosion of sorts that only knocks away people, mostly to deter creepers and keep other things away. Without damage, of course.

[Zocker]

Yes the grenades are a problem in TDM, how about changing them to say 4 but you gain 1 additional nade for each kill?
So a Marine can't really spam around but still doesn't run out of them if he survives longer.

But the worst thing about nades is when you charge them and throw them against a ceiling so they will bounce off and explode on the surface like a bomb with no chance to evade.
That is just overpowered.

Also the MG is too weak (TLMS, and TDM), consumes a lot of ammo, by far not as strong as the Riot and for long distances you just use pistols...

Of course the Engineer can spam with his steam cannons but I'd suggest to add a little "cooldown" (or a heat meter idk) so you can't spam with them around.

The Cyborg, Hunter and Ghostbuster are fine imo, maybe speed up the Cyb Plasma projectiles and decrease the damage a little bit.

The Sjas itself in TDM is not the problem but a good Ghoul Player can frag much faster because he doesn't have long to wait until he reaches the next human. Because of the respawning players you will always find some in short time thus the more chaotic gameplay in TDM makes it even more easy to ambush them.

I think the Jitter is a bit too weak if many people are playing. Not the attack or the HP the Jit is the problem, it is the digest that makes him very woundable.
Especially in TDM where more people are playing is he an "easy to frag Ghoul" without fear to get crunched for this time.

I think many of you underrate the Creeper in TDM, you might think it's easy to kill him and a Creeper won't make much frags... you are wrong.
As mentioned before TDM is much more chaotic and since the Creeper is already in TLMS difficult to detect he can ambush humans easily.
Of course he doesn't make as many frags as a Jitter or a Sjas but on the other hand he doesn't die that often.

Well I'm not a fan of the Choke, but if you give him the bite regen and reduce the charging time of the bloodball a bit I'm sure that I'd give him a shot (espacially in TDM).

I think the Frostbite is a bit unbalanced, not overpowered but unbalanced.
Because of his slowness he is absolutely helpless against long range attacks but in small rooms (like the ventilation shaft in GvH11) he is overpowered as hell.
I know that he is a close combat Ghoul but I would change the Breath attack bit to make him less overpowered in rooms and more dangerous by speeding the chills up and lowering the damage.

I mean on some maps it would be plain stupid to play as a Frostbite because the bite is a melee attack only and the chills are very easy to dodge (they could be more accurate too).
I don't know if that is intended to be but could you lesser or eliminate the cooldown of the breath attack?
Because if you're attacking with it but a human comes closer and you'd like to finish him with the bite attack you can't attack with the bite for about 2 seconds after you stopped attacking with the breath because of the mentioned cooldown above.

Just some things I wanted to say ^^

[Frits]

still want a little hunter buff, by far the weakest human now.

[CarThief]

*cough* guaranteed 2-hit railgun at spawn *cough* instakill ice *cough* effecient and spammable creeper deterrent *cough* *almost chokes*

Seriously. They're all strong in one way or another. If you want weakness, well, look at the ghostbuster's puny default gun, useless blood spreader, easily dodged echo gun, though if he's lucky to get a creeper or jitter upgrade things go his way.

Hunter is absolutely not the weakest. Infact, probaly the second most powerfull human currently. Just the riotgun outmatches him in every way currently.
Ah, and what about engineer... Once he's outta his other weapons, all he has left is a nailgun that sucks versus creepers and is reasonably dodgeable. You're just spoiled after that 100+ damage by lightning arrow business, and now a class outshines the hunter too (marine), he's absolutely FINE now at best. Though personally i'd love a damage reduce of lightning on Jitterskulls as missing is a thing you can do only twice on these overpowered bastards.

[Frits]

*cough* guaranteed 2-hit railgun at spawn *cough* instakill ice *cough* effecient and spammable creeper deterrent *cough* *almost chokes*

Says you, one who has never played as a human. I can't explain this to someone who never joins the other side.
Only thing he needs is less slowing down when an arrow is loaded, right now you only can get one shot off before anything reaches your face.

[CarThief]

Ah, figured you wanted the overpowered 100+ damage lightning and stuff back. Perhaps more shots aint that bad if they're being approached, maybe... They still shouldnt be able to run AND shoot like gods in the old times though.

Maybe a less slower delay actually works, but he is by no means the weakest, still. Go see people like Ammar using it for its lightning arrow, pretty damn powerfull. Just about the limit i'd say, though personally i'd love less lightning damage on Jitterskull when he's crunching, after all, just about anyone can aim an lightning arrow at you from any distance when you're stuck. If they did 50+ damage(on stuck jitterskulls) that wouldnt be as bad, no!?

[Frits]

no i do not, FYI i requested marine and hunter nerfs because killing got to easy. I've never seen you call a jitter nerf back when it was more rape. And i don't play marine anymore atm because it got boring being op. I play cyborg and hunter sometimes. And he still is the weakest human, unless you go play human for a while your opinion on them is void.

[CarThief]

YOUR opinion is void as you virtually never play anymore. You are sorely mistaken about mine being void, as i FIGHT these humans who can be extremely overpowered to merely being a free frag.
Its all about the best result they can archive, and if that is balanced, currently with the marine, well, its obvious. Fortunately its getting some kind of nerf. As for the Hunter, why... He's fine! Or atleast an fine enemy, one mistake, and you will lose 70 or more hp.

I'm starting to question your ability to judge and your skill if you keep making these statements. Well, sure, he might have some use for less delay, but as long as he is in one piece and can shoot, he has all these abovementioned abilities to easily destroy foes with if they simply got the skill!

Aside your nothing more then void opinion, a good hunter who can escape ussually does so before he can pull off another shot. Why, it seems fair enough, that he has to move slower and concentrate on shooting with the more powerfull weapons. Maybe that is an intended strategy, hit and run. Maybe all he needs is a little more run speed but still his current or even slower delay.

In any case reconsider who you're calling void. Its not like you play anymore. So how about this? The suggestion that the hunter gets some more running speed but keeps his delay. That way, on your misguided part, it should be reasonable he can shoot, run a moment, and pull off some more shots. And on the ghoul's part, they will have to either intercept him while running or take him down when he's taking any possible risks of stopping and shooting.
Of course you're just going to disregard this completely and call it void, arent you. Meh, he'll never change.

Though i'll admit i never really bothered to call the Jitterskull overpowered back then, though sometimes i think these nerfs are overkill. You're guilty of the same things though, probaly. Hmm... Yeah, you are.

[TERRORsphere]

Maybe all he needs is a little more run speed but still his current or even slower delay.

Next time you play GVH. Play as creeper and try to take you a hunter, 1v1.

Hunter is fine.

[Mobius]

I love the debate, but keep it civil. I see some strong emotional investment in the opinions and facts presented here. A rule of thumb when debating is that if you opponent isn't willing to concede then don't bother.

Here is some references

Top tier Hunter players in GVH

Arctic
Ammar
Fritz
Cutmanmike (He floored five ghouls by himself, 2 of them with just magic in castle of ghoulstien. Everyone in the human team was killed. He's done other crazy shit too)

List may vary and I might add more if there's proof.

Do I personally find Hunter to be weak? Not in the least. I can run even with chokes, floor them, floor jitterd, easily kill creepers, toe to toe with sjas, and possibly outfight Frostbite as one. I see no reason to rebalance him.. at all.

[Frits]

Because you don't see me doesn't mean i don't play. Fact is against good players the slow down only gives you one chance to fire, i've said it before ice and fire have a lot of damage but require on luck to kill something it's not consistent. Sure a one hit kill might be frustrating but it's mainly luck. There is no way you can successfully predict a good player, just predict and hope he runs into it. And if he doesn't your dead. Every human has the possibility to run and shoot, the hunter has to run to a safe spot first shoot and then run again to get some distance because the slow down is that massive, and this is utter rape on small maps or even on big ones. Hence i ask for less slowdown (or the slowdown kicks in after you've been holding the arrow on the bow for a while like in some earlier version). His weapon is more powerful but it's also the hardest weapon to hit anything with ingame, combined with the slowdown.. You don't see people leading the scoreboard anymore with hunter but you do with any other class (mainly marine), unless everybody else on that team is a terrible player.
FYI hunters and cyborgs are my main health source when playing as a creeper to tackle the harder classes. Cyborg balls are slow and hunter using fire need to load an arrow slow down massively and are a free frag with all that delay. Only marines are hard to kill as a creeper with all those nades.

And have you ever played hunter online once CT? Just try it, and you'll see what i'm talking about.