GBT's Maps - BBB&B-v1b Hotfix

[Gumballtoid]

sup


After invading an impromptu Hotel server (that wasn't supposed to be public in the first place), I've come to realize that no matter what I do, it's just not going to vanish. A lot of folks like it, and, permission or not, folks are still going to make changes to it and share it with their pals. Rather than just let that go on, I figure the healthiest thing to do would be to pick the map back up. Rather than use this version, however, I would most likely remake the map entirely from scratch, using knowledge I have since picked up.

So the question I now pose is this: What about BBB&B do you enjoy? What could be improved? What could I include? Specifically, I want to know what folks think of the Robot Master-themed rooms, so I can decide whether or not to keep them. I want you to put your honest thoughts, grievances withstanding, out on the table, so that I might make the map better than ever.


Just bear in mind this isn't a guarantee. I'm juggling work, preparations for college, and DOS Reborn development among other things. If it were to happen, it would be in any free time I might have, and even then, I could very well burn myself out on it as I have done in the past.

[MusashiAA]

What I like about the map is that its essentially the one and only 8BDM equivalent of TF2 idle/achievement maps but without the reasons to idle and no achievements: it looks fun to explore, it has things to do, it's not about just killing players and winning the game but about trying out stuff and hanging out. It's very much not a serious map for serious competition, and that is fine. It feels like a leisure map.

It should feel like a relaxing, entertaining resort, with multiple things to look for and enjoy. I'd say it historically introduced players to a concept previously not dwelled by custom maps (I think), and whatever next form should stick to that.

[Magnet Dood]

Cut the pool to get rid of projectile fuckery or at least put regular mm water in there
Robot Master rooms are really nice and I love the ones that's in now

Should have more hotel stuff. Iunno, make it fun to explore or whatever. Cut the parking lot because it's flat and open and dumb and no one really likes going there and put the spawns in rooms or even in hallways.

Hotel's a fun time for change of pace stuff when you just want to dick around with friends and of course for roleplaying which certainly has its niche in MM8BDM servers. I think you'd be well served to update it so bootleg copies don't flood Wadseeker, but also keep in mind that you'll never be able to please everyone with it, especially with how many people use it.

[Rozark]

What I like about the map is that its essentially the one and only 8BDM equivalent of TF2 idle/achievement maps but without the reasons to idle and no achievements: it looks fun to explore, it has things to do, it's not about just killing players and winning the game but about trying out stuff and hanging out. It's very much not a serious map for serious competition, and that is fine. It feels like a leisure map.

It should feel like a relaxing, entertaining resort, with multiple things to look for and enjoy. I'd say it historically introduced players to a concept previously not dwelled by custom maps (I think), and whatever next form should stick to that.

I've mentioned them as recreational maps a few months ago.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4507&hilit=ideas&start=550#p328664

There were a few recreational maps prior to this in mm8bdm, such as the infamous touhou wedding map. A few others are in Gummy's version of BME.

[MusashiAA]

Cut the parking lot because it's flat and open and dumb and no one really likes going there and put the spawns in rooms or even in hallways.

I'd suggest that, instead of ridding off the parking lot, you turn the parking lot itself into a sort of serious layout (a map within a map), with cars and trucks as cover, and catwalks for people to fight in. THEN turn the hotel lobby or the bathrooms into the spawn rooms (after expanding it to fit enough people, of course)

EDIT: I'd also suggest taking a different approach on how the hotel itself is structured: instead of a flat, gigantic square filled with enough rooms to fit all robot masters and characters, please consider something along the lines of what the new Light Labs map is going to be in v5: each set of robot masters is a floor, and you can take elevators or the stairs to reach them.

[Superjustinbros]

About the pool, for a while now I've been thinking of a small idea.

See the height where Dusty's feet touch? Across that entire height, you could put a transparent floor (or maybe a hair higher) so while the pool no longer has Doom water, it gives off the illusion/feel of the characters swimming while still showing it's deep end. Therefore it still looks and fells like a pool.
It would also be non-solid to projectiles.

Here's a mockup of a proposed hotel expansion I came up with long, long ago:

Note the bathrooms re-added in the MM3 hall.
As well as a closeup of 2F:


You could also do the following:
*Decorate the exterior of the building a bit more, especially the entrance.
*Add scenery into the halls like lamps ceiling, lights, couches, greenery, and small tables. As for the entrance where Dr. Light works, it could possibly also be decorated with the aforementioned lights/lamps/greenery and maybe a vending machine or two (you can also stick some vending machines outside).
*Color the edges of the walls in the hallways with a different color (more aesthetic and thus not exactly necessary)
*Add my hallway signs (that I also posted in Wily Inc) to mark the hallways of the different games (also aesthetic).

*The rooms of as-of-yet unreleased characters would use custom tilesets and be as professionally made as other hotel rooms.
*Work in more opportunities for health pickups aside from the very slow process of healing yourself on beds, the seats outside, and the showers. Additionally, being in the hot tub could also restore health.
*Use the space north of the pool shown above to implement in something extra, it could be outdoors or indoors (Personally I would suggest converting it into a gym of sorts).
*Add in additional rooms scattered through the hotel, such as a library, a casino, a theater (What's there near the MM4 halls is more of a bar), and a medical center (that's stocked with recovery items). You could also remove the "NOPE" sign and the arrow next to it to conserve a bit of file space.
*The garage that normally could not be reached before if official versions should stock teleporters that lead to different parts of the map.
*I also approve of decorating the parking lot into some sort of actual battleground through the usage of vehicles.

That's what I could come up with mostly for now, even if you scrap this map entirely and remake the map from scratch. (In that case, you could incorporate maybe a secondary entrance or two that players can leave the hotel through (which I added in through the areas by the bathrooms in the old map)

I can help with any spriting/texturing if you like, most of the stuff I posted would be easy enough of rme to sprite assets of.

[MusashiAA]

I'd say the map should focus less on the rooms that provide nothing but weapons, and more on what else it can provide outside of said rooms. While the rooms are an integral part of the identity of the map itself, the focus should go on what other things can be done in the map besides this: a casino filled with minigames that earn you health/ammo/whatever, a hidden security room with a bunch of TVs displaying different parts of the hotel, a water slide on the pool and free tanks/items, a pretty garden to relax and explore, and so on. Otherwise, the map is just a bunch of square hallways and rooms.

EDIT: I'd also add into the feedback that there's way too much walking: the hotel should grow "vertically", not horizontally, and thus it should be split into floors that you can reach with teleporters/elevators instead of one single gigantic map full of really long hallways that you have to traverse for 88 days.

[Superjustinbros]

I would suggest using 3D floors of some sort to do a second floor (and have each hotel room be on alternating spaces on the floors so the 3D Floors don't blow up more space) And maybe for the hotel rooms on the second floor aligned across the ouster edge of the hotel by the gardens/pool, you could make the bedrooms have large windows that look into the outside.

[Thunderono]

I was discussing this over skype but I'll drop it here for discussion

Instead of one big building, you could structure it as more of a complex with multiple buildings designed for multiple purposes (Like the rooms, Musashi's casino/security room idea, etc etc).  It'd make the map a bit more interesting to explore and maybe increase clarity since most landmarks of the maps are visible from more parts of the map.  Teleporters could also be made available for fast travel between certain areas of the map.  A vertical approach would be very difficult to pull off, as it would require either tremendous amounts of 3D floors (always a bad idea), portal shenanigans (not exactly the most stable method) or teleporters taking you between the different floors (which could work but might feel clunky in execution).  Having it be a complex would also be a breath of fresh air to the map's aesthetic, since the current version only uses the great outdoors for the parking lot, the pool, and the connections between.  A larger outdoor section would mean better designs on pathways and more interesting landmarks than the current version of the map, which makes use of a labyrinth with various things sprinkled throughout.

I like SJB's pool idea, but you could probably also make the 3D floor bob up and down ever so slightly to make it seem more natural than just standing on air.  I also agree that recovery should be confined to a single area, since the current script is fairly buggy.

[Superjustinbros]

That actually doesn't sound half-bad, Thunder. Having more buildings would certainly help.

Also yeah if we did go with my idea for the pool, it should bob up and down a bit.

[MusashiAA]

The complex idea sounds like a good idea, actually. Each complex's outside look is full of textures and decorations featured in said RM set's game.

I honestly was thinking of a huge vertical building with just the lobby and a large set of elevators that take you to the "floors", which are just separate rooms that aren't actually part of the building itself, and each with a set of stairs that make use of portals. If that method is not a good idea, then I guess the complex idea is better.

[Superjustinbros]

Well, "portals" aren't really good for campers and telefraggers.

[Gumballtoid]

https://allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=bluebomberbedandbreakfast-v1bh.wad
Here's the latest version -- a hotfix of the last official version, simply removing Doom water and adding more diverse spawns. BE and TSPG will now allow it on their wad lists.

This is likely one of the last iterations of this layout before I start from scratch yet again. I'm aware of texture errors, but I don't particularly care.

[mistamontiel]

HOW do I get the Mario song with Scatman playing LOL I was only able to extract like two craps ={

Also bluebomberbedandbreakfast-v1.5(yd).wad is being played and no sign of it ={

[Gumballtoid]

If it's not available here, it's an unofficial version that I had no hand in. You'll have to look elsewhere. The latest official (or legitimate) version is v1b.

That said, I'd really like folks to stop putting those out since there's like 50 of those out there and I already said I'd resume work on this thing.