[Suggestion] Core CTF maps playable in non-CTF game modes.

[MusashiAA]

As it says on the tin: allowing core CTF maps to be playable in/compatible with other game modes that are not CTF-oriented from the get go, especially team game modes such as TDM and TLMS.

For team game modes and mods, maps designed around team-specific spawns and areas should be much more enjoyable than forcing players to play team game modes in maps designed with deathmatch in mind, and thus no team specific spawns.

[Beed28]

Yes, I very much support this.

Also, for non team-based modes, maybe add some regular deathmatch starts around the map too, including the area between the bases?

[Meme Man]

THIS THIS AND THIS.
Its so annoying when in TLMS you spawn in from of 5 enemies. it just feels cheap and dumb.

[Bikdark]

tlms on ctf maps oh my god i want this so badly

[Korby]

I also think this could be a really cool thing to do.
Personally I don't see any reason not to.

[Ivory]

It's been suggested endlessly.

Yet never done, because it's rather tedious to go through every map adding spawns.

[MusashiAA]

It's about time this should be done, IMO. Every time in LMS or TLMS that someone complains about "bad spawns", it's never been because the deathmatch maps are bad, but because they're deathmatch maps: they were not designed with team game modes in mind.

IMO, the fact that this hasn't been done already is a little worrying, as this has been a clear issue since the beginning: CTF maps have been relegated for CTF only, and that hurts them overall, being the only core maps actually designed for team game modes...modes that are played as equally, if not more than free for all game modes.

Limiting these maps to CTF and 1FCTF only always seemed a little exagerated, and a mistake. Were these maps allowed to be played in other team game modes, more people would play them, and more feedback would be given to map and modmakers in how they can improve their own work for team game modes. The time and effort needed to make this work seems like it would be all worthwhile overall, for both core and other mods: a worthwhile effort for the game in general.




EDIT: Might as well mention, though this is just a side suggestion: there are some deathmatch maps with symmetrical layouts that could easily have their spawns refitted, and their layout expanded and/or redesigned, for the purpose of playing more smoothly on team game modes such as CTF or TDM/TLMS, while also still working perfectly for DM.

[CutmanMike]

IMO, the fact that this hasn't been done already is a little worrying

  Come on now, there has literally been no request for this since the first version of MM8BDM. I doubt server hosts are going to be rushing to add CTF maps to their map rotations if this gets added either.

This gets an ok from me but I'll leave it up to the current dev team to decide on this one since they'll be the ones fixing up all the CTF maps. Also keep in mind any new CTF maps will have to have this treatment but I think we have enough base CTF maps as is by now (maybe).

EDIT: Might as well mention, though this is just a side suggestion: there are some deathmatch maps with symmetrical layouts that could easily have their spawns refitted, and their layout expanded and/or redesigned, for the purpose of playing more smoothly on team game modes such as CTF or TDM/TLMS, while also still working perfectly for DM.

This however, absolutely not. Not for core at least. If you want to copy-paste vanilla maps and retool them to CTF for a custom map pack then be my guest.

[Messatsu]

Seems like a go.  Moved to pending.

[MusashiAA]

Come on now, there has literally been no request for this since the first version of MM8BDM. I doubt server hosts are going to be rushing to add CTF maps to their map rotations if this gets added either.

I most certainly will. And I guess we can attribute that "lack of interest" to the fact that no one plays CTF to begin with: these maps have been relegated to just those two game modes, that I'm willing to bet people just forget about them...that's what worries me: that they've been so out of the public eye, that we all forget about them, and thus miss some untaped potential for the game in general.

Also keep in mind any new CTF maps will have to have this treatment but I think we have enough base CTF maps as is by now (maybe).

IMO, this should be the standard to follow. We've got 20 team-centric maps on core relegated to only CTF, moreso than all of TF2's core CTF maps.

EDIT: Might as well mention, though this is just a side suggestion: there are some deathmatch maps with symmetrical layouts that could easily have their spawns refitted, and their layout expanded and/or redesigned, for the purpose of playing more smoothly on team game modes such as CTF or TDM/TLMS, while also still working perfectly for DM.

This however, absolutely not. Not for core at least. If you want to copy-paste vanilla maps and retool them to CTF for a custom map pack then be my guest.

In all honesty, there's very few deathmatch maps that could meet team standards, as most of the symmetrical layouts are designed as arenas, and lack enough hypotethical spacing between "team spawns", and they would still need to be expanded a little to fit this criteria in.