Messages

31

Projects & Creative / Re: Re: megaman battle & chase project V2A Released

« on: September 27, 2014, 03:45:00 AM »

Ok cool and I bet the special guest racer is any of the black racer three or a cutstuff member

special guest racer that's apparently canon...

I think your question was already answered

32

W.I.P Forum / Re: The Idea(s) Topic

« on: September 15, 2014, 03:37:32 AM »

Protip: This thread doesn't get checked on a regular basis. It's become more of a repository for "wouldn't that be interesting" than an actual place to find ideas.

An idea does get picked up from time to time, but don't expect a lot of responses on day 1. Or even sometimes month 1.

33

Anything Goes / Re: Class Based Modification vs. Justified Classes

« on: September 06, 2014, 11:33:31 PM »

OK, first of all, please stop attacking people for having opinions. It's scrap like this that caused the Great Classes Schism in the first place, and we aren't fixing it until it stops.
srsly tho these are classes mods not religions

Alright, now that we've got that out of the way, here's my thoughts on this whole discussion.

CBM (the mod formerly known as YD Classes) has a design philosophy that revolves around taking the robot master's weapons and exaggerating their strengths and weaknesses to create a class that's quite good in one respect, but struggles in others. This method allows the classes to stray from their original RM's design in the interest of squeezing out more fun. However, this exaggerated power structure results in a fast paced, frantic style that in turn breeds many classes with one-hit kills, unavoidable damage, powerful lockdown skills, and other absurd attacks designed to highlight their strengths to the point where Hardman relies more on his Hard Jet to pull himself out of trouble than his large health pool being able to withstand it and the game begins to devolve into "how do I kill everyone before they can kill me" (Gravity Man, Elec Man, Galaxy Man, Magma Man) or "how do I block/evade the bullshit for long enough to be the last man standing" (Skull Man, Wood Man, Gyro Man, Gravity Man)

Justified (the mod formerly known as KY Classes), however, focuses on staying true to the robot master's classic tool kit, balancing around normalizing those strengths and weaknesses as opposed to exaggerating them. This results in an environment where scoring a frag relies more on critical thinking and pressing what few advantages each class's kit can provide as opposed to finding the attack that can rip apart Hardman in less than a second and spamming it down a narrow hallway. While such an approach provides an environment where most of the classes feel relatively on par with each other, some of the satisfaction factor of obtaining the aforementioned advantages is taken away, making the classes feel weak. In addition, power disparities in the classes end up amplified by the lack thereof, and classes with any sort of reliable or semi-reliable damage (Slash Man, Plant Man, Oil Man, Gemini Man, Magic Man) find themselves at a huge advantage, while classes with potentially high but inconsistent payoffs (Wood Man, Pirate Man, Skull Man, Burner Man) are painful to play as the team seems to value potential over practicality when determining the numbers.

Which approach is better? I personally don't feel there is a right choice or a wrong one.  CBM's classes feel immediately satisfying to play and stay true to vanilla's rapid pace (provided you live long enough to utilize them), while JC's classes provide a slower, more tactical and well thought-out game (most of the time). Which one I prefer really depends on what I'm in the mood for at the time. However, I do agree that both of them are flawed in their own ways based on their respective strategies.

34

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: September 01, 2014, 05:50:55 PM »

If you were to catch Napalm Man in every single frame of the uncharged bubble you would most definitely kill him in seconds, so what you're saying makes no sense.

...Well, it happened. I blame explosion damage being as consistent as quantum mechanics.

35

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: September 01, 2014, 04:02:21 PM »

Wait, you can charge the bubble?
They really ought to make things like that clearer...

...That aside, the reason I was complaining about Pirate Man in particular was that I was playing immediately before making that post, and I caught a Napalm Man in EVERY SINGLE FRAME OF THE (uncharged) BUBBLE.

And he was still alive and fully capable of hitting me in the face with Napalm Bombs for three quarters of my health.
Because... reasons.
This attack takes five seconds of out of combat time to use. It should at least be consistent in its power, but that seems to be too much to ask from this mod at this point.

Other things I saw a lot of during that play session:
> Slash Man can block shots AND instagib in a mod where 25 damage Burner Grenades (which have roughly the same range) are considered fair and balanced.
> Plant Man was used pretty much exclusively because Plant Hug is easily one of the strongest melee attacks in the game, but Star Man is never played because he slows to a crawl while Crashing.
> Seriously, some of these super moves aren't worth how much time you have to wait. Without being able to, y'know, defend yourself. Is it really too much to ask for that cooldowns don't rely on you not attacking for the duration? You could double their cooldowns for all I care. But when I dread actually having to try to fight someone in Megaman 8-Bit Deathmatch, I feel like something's inherently wrong in the design.

36

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: September 01, 2014, 07:39:30 AM »

Oh my god
The people putting words in my mouth is real

I never said "this is how you're supposed to Cold Man." He does have other things he can do. I said "he has a very clear combo." Which, while it can be interpreted similarly, is different. What I'm saying is, he can stun into Ice Wall. A very clear combo setup. It's hard to land both effectively, so it should feel good to use, right?

It isn't.

Burner Man has a very similar issue. Even with Trap into Wave Burner or, hell, Trap into Forest Diver, he deals about 70 damage on a solid hit. Which really doesn't justify the twenty seconds he has to spend being useless to do it. Especially not when Slash Man can get the same exact effect by just looking in your direction, no combo needed.

I realize this is a different mod from YD Classes. I'm just saying that when people notice "oh hey there's this cool thing that might work maybe I should try it" and they get really shitty results half the time, then they start to feel really useless.

Also, "it's not difficult to get Pillar Break" my ass. Five second charge time which pauses when attacking (read: being useful in any way shape or form)? I'm really not sure it's worth it. Which is an issue many of the attacks in the mod suffer from; It's really not worth trying to find a corner to camp in for ten seconds while your super move that may or may not do anything useful charges. Especially when, y'know, you have Slash Man or Shadow Man (who don't care) trying to shove spiky things into places where there shouldn't be spiky things. Penalizing someone for attempting to survive is bad game design in general.

While we're on the subject of bad attacks, how about that Pirate Man and his Wet Paper Mines and Bubble That Takes Five Years To Charge For 20 Damage at max.

37

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: September 01, 2014, 06:09:29 AM »

Toadman simply needs to leap high into the air and fire to get a successful rain flush. And even then, he has his TOAD COMBAT which does a crapton of damage in close corridors, where the above strat is useless.

Wait, you can trigger Rain Flush in the air? When the hell was this added? Also, Toad Combat? What on Earth happened when I stopped paying attention to this mod?

Skullmans shield is an attack as well, so using that as an attack instead of shielding himself is another strategy that can be employed. Not only that, when he releases it, everyone near him gets shoved away, which is a lot more helpful than it seems.

First one is nigh impossible to land because of how it works. Second one, I've never seen actually hit, mainly because the first one exists and pretty much does that anyway. Either way, you still leave yourself completely open to being set up on after the two seconds are up, a trait which completely mitigates almost any advantage the shield gives.

Uranus kills in five shots. That's all there is to say on that matter.

...And has a charge time of five years, a firing rate of "please kill me", and Super Arm is strictly better in terms of overall damage output.
On a failed shot.
...Please.

Forest Diver kills if you land directly on someone, which isn't hard to do at all. Plus, have you even weaponswitched to his grenades? They do almost 25 per hit. AND he has traps, which were MEANT to be used with the Wave Burner.

Wait, Forest Diver can kill people? I've never seen it actually hit for any sizable amount of damage.
Also, "almost 25 per hit" is not a very good damage value for something with an effective range of two meters. Hell, Silver Tomahawk is easier to hit with and still does better damage.
In addition, the traps are pretty much his only saving grace, but even then, I haven't seen him do more than 40 damage with a single attack, so I'm not sure that will save him.

However, I won't defend coldman. He's broken as shit right now.

Not sure broken's the word you're looking for, but I agree. Coldman needs to be looked at.

38

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: September 01, 2014, 05:29:59 AM »

OK, I need to break this down

I'm fine with people of your social group posting insensitive/ignorant posts on other topics saying that Justified is your least favourite mod and stuff due to bias or that you hate it for questionable reasons like: I just don't like how it plays! It feels intentionally bad! which equate to no reasoning and irrational opinions. But posting on our topic saying things with literally no evidence and proof is a new low. I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact that you said this, or the fact that you actually believe YD is even possibly more balanced than Justified.

Starting right off with an ad hominem! This is going to be wonderful!
Also, I never said YD is more balanced than Justified. I'm just saying the reverse is not true either. Hell, I can't name a classes mod in this community that isn't without any sort of balance problem. Hell, CSCC is about as balanced as a Weebl standing on its head.

The reason I don't like Justified, since you indirectly asked, is that most classes don't feel satisfying. At all. I've started to nickname it "Wet Paper Towel Classes" because a lot of the classes don't feel like they really do anything. And, thus, any classes that are actually effective at their jobs feel overpowered by comparison.

Let's look at Coldman, for an example.
He has a very clear-cut combo; Stun someone, then throw a wall at them while they can't dodge.
I successfully landed this combo on someone.
Twice.
They were still alive; it took me a third hit to actually kill them.

That's not satisfying to use.

On the other hand, we have Sword Man, who can do up to 200 damage if you're skilled and/or lucky enough to hit with everything on his sword swing.

That is satisfying to use. (A little too much so, I may add.)

There, I've aired my grievance with the mod. You can't say I haven't given any reason now, can you?
YD classes has the opposite problem, but this isn't the YD classes thread, so I'll leave that for another time.

OK first of all I'm ignoring your ramblings since none of those classes have problems of being OP in v3; if you're gonna name evidence at least be sure about what you're saying. Also category 1 and category 2 refer to what?

How do you even expect people to get your point if you just post classes you think are unbalanced with no proof or reasoning? Why not also give constructive criticism on how to improve them too?

OK, first off, hypocrisy alert with the lack of evidence.

Second of all, I intended for people to play the classes to experience the disparity, but if I need to explain them up front...

Group 1 are classes that are excessively strong for various reasons.
Turbo Man's hitboxes and Crash Drive speed make him nigh-impossible to dodge. The battle becomes "can you kill him before he teabags you to death." Which, in this mod, is really difficult. (See above)
Pluto has invulnerability frames out the ass, a ripping dash that deals great damage, and free homing projectiles.
Duo has Charged Duo Punch, which deals massive damage to whatever it hits compared to the rest of the classes.

Group 2 are classes who were gimped into uselessness by Justified.
Toad Man can be easily knocked out of his Rain Flush which, while such a mechanic provides nice counterplay, Rain Flush isn't really strong enough to justify it balance-wise.
Skullman's Skull Barrier is a "Zhonya's Hourglass" on a kit where stunning yourself for invulnerability hurts you much more than it helps. What does Skull Man even gain from using it? He buys himself two seconds. Which is easily one of the most situational abilities in the game. Hell, even WOOD MAN does it better than him. But then again, Wood Man doesn't have an actually viable attack so... This is the one class where a long cooldown would be justified; fire some buster shots, use Skull Barrier while you reload, fire more shots, rinse and repeat.
Uranus has decently strong attacks... which take fifteen years to charge, making him incredibly useless in an actual combat scenario.
Burner Man's attacks are nigh-impossible to hit with in a fight, and don't do enough when they do hit to justify their use. Even in this mod, where doing over 50 damage is a feat in and of itself. Forest Diver, in particular, isn't worth the five seconds it takes to charge and the long stun periods it requires you to suffer through.

tl;dr: This mod has balance issues. Get over it.

39

Projects & Creative / Re: Justified Classes v3ah-fix

« on: August 31, 2014, 04:34:36 AM »

V3? Hopefully people won't play YD anymore, that's horribly balanced.

I'm not sure what amuses me more, the fact that you said this, or the fact that you actually believe Justified is any better.

Go play TurboMan or Pluto for... any quantity of time, really.
Better yet, go play Skullman. Or maybe Toadman. Or Uranus.

I think you get my point.

(Note: This was made before I actually checked out v3a. If any of these got changed, ignore my ramblings.)

EDIT: Duo goes in category 1. Burnerman goes in category 2.

40

W.I.P Forum / Re: The Idea(s) Topic

« on: August 22, 2014, 08:34:06 PM »

I found a nice game mode from Counter Strike that I think would be easy to make and fun to play.

Arms Race:
Players all have unlimit'd ammo. All players start with a really powerful weapon, once they kill another player, the killer moves onto the next level/weapon. The higher the level, the weaker the weapon it is. Once someone gets a kill with the last weapon, they are the winner. If a player decides to commit suicide, they'll lose one level.

An example of weapon levels would be...
1. Atomic Fire
2. Hard Knuckle
3. Pharaoh Shot
etc.

I already made this.
...A REALLY long time ago. It would need to be updated and/or edited.
In additional misfortune, the download link in the old thread is broken.
If anyone happens to have a copy, please throw it my and/or Savior's way. Thanks.

MID-POST EDIT: Here's TheDoc's v3a version. Man, I haven't seen this thing in ages; the thread's on the second to last page, if you need a reference for exactly how long it's been.

41

Forum Games Archive / Re: Cutstuff Adventure 2- Signups and Only Signups

« on: August 06, 2014, 03:40:38 AM »

Did someone say really crappy art?

(click to show/hide)

"You get in my way, and they'll be using what's left of you as shark bait."
what's a straight line
what's a proportion
what's an art

42

Forum Games Archive / Re: Cutstuff Adventure 2- Signups and Only Signups

« on: August 01, 2014, 09:30:54 PM »

Name: "C-Foam"
Class Name: Demolitionist
Appearance: Teenage girl, pale skin, hair and eyes are both seafoam (heh) blue. Typically wears a blue and orange jumpsuit with a metallic utility belt of sorts, though the belt is just for show.
Personality: Behaves like a secret agent. Fancies herself a lone wolf. Tends to make sarcastic remarks when irritated.
Skill Theme: Explosive Gel*

*C-Foam's special ability is the power to produce explosive gel, which she can cough up and spit at things, like very volatile and dangerous phlegm. Her "bread and butter" is applying this stuff to her fists and feet, making her attacks pack some extra heat (though potentially harming herself in the process if she isn't careful about it.) Over time, she learns new tricks with the gel; bomb jumping, explosive oil slicks, bubble bombs, human flamethrower tricks, the list goes on. I'm inviting the dev team to get creative with designing these skills; she's a secret agent with an infinite supply of explosive gel and the willingness to risk her own physical safety if it means getting the job done.

C-Foam prioritizes damage over all else, though she isn't a stranger to status effects. She's fast and strong, but a bit on the light side, especially considering her (ahem) explosive nature. She dabbles a bit in both physical and magic damage, though moreso in the latter than the former.

43

General Gaming Discussion / Re: Guild Quest ~ discussion [OOC, signups, "devlog", etc]

« on: July 23, 2014, 03:11:08 AM »

Guildmaster Celeste here, here to say Vilrich is a massive butt and is far behind on paperwork.

If you're reading this, Vilrich, get off your lazy ass and be valuable to the Guild for once in your life.

44

General Gaming Discussion / Re: Guild Quest ~ discussion [OOC, signups, "devlog", etc]

« on: June 29, 2014, 06:48:55 PM »

*raises hand*

45

Anything Goes / Re: $#!% Cutopians Say - The Quote Thread

« on: June 28, 2014, 05:11:29 AM »

Here was my thought process behind making this thread:

- The quotes don't fit in the Character Catalog because... well... it's a catalog
- They really aren't long enough to go in the Writer's Guild without seeming like a waste of a perfectly good post in there
- Sometimes people don't want to write a full story just to get out a certain line of dialogue

Thus, I made a thread for people who want to share their short dialogues without making an entire short story just to justify them. Sure, there are other, better ways to flesh out characters. But sometimes you just come up with something stupid you need to get out.

And that's what this is all about.