Stardust's Workshop

[RifleGod]

The new classes are very fun to play

But some classes are unbalanced:

Megaman- balanced

Protoman- Buff pls

Bass- Buff pls

Duo- Nerf pls

Roll- balanced

Wily- Buff pls

[MusashiAA]

So about Teamwork Classes, I have a lot of things to say about it, which are mostly disagreements with the way the classes are handled. I'll go one by one.

Mega Man: Why is switching to Rush Coil tied to altfire, when you can just switch to Rush Coil through weapprev/weapnext? And why is Rush Coil summoning tied to mainfire? I think linking Mega Man's altfire to directly and inmediately summoning Rush Coil would make a lot more sense and it would flow better. Mega Man serving as an ammo regenerator is very...strange: even as a passive ability, it's very arbitrary to just have a Mega Man slowly give you free ammo, and it makes absolutely no sense as he has never been associated with having such ability (though this is an issue I'll address to later on). Overall he's pretty ok, not much to complain about here.

Proto Man: Even though I can easily understand why he has the least amount of health overall, 550 HP is very low, even for his absurd damage output. It's very strange that Bass, being the most mobile of them all, has more health than him. If Proto Man is to be related to the Pyro (decent to high mobility, decent firepower, low health), then he shouldn't be able to dish that much damage at such a rapid rate, and have so little HP (highest firepower, normal mobility, lowest health)...this is IMO off balance:

Proto Man has singlehandedly the highest firepower of the whole mod, something that's exclusive to defensive classes OR offensive classes that are restricted to close range.

Proto Man has the lowest amount of health points in the entire mod, something that should be exclusive to offensive classes with high mobility and high medium-to-close range firepower, or supportive classes.

Please, find a way to tone down the damage output of Proto Man. Either ditch the double RoF and turn it into double power (or normal vanilla power, as general damage has been halved), or think of something else. Buff Proto Man's HP then, to circa 750. If necesary, ditch the Break Mode item ability, as taking increased damage while under the effects of double RoF is far more absurd than just double RoF on its own. Of all the classes right now, Proto Man is the one that needs the most changes. Also, a Proto Man skin with his shield showing up, but no actual shield? So confusingggg

Bass: As of this writing, I still have no idea how to use dark portals for myself, or why Bass even has such ability (though this is an issue I'll address to later on) outside of "its 4 da teem". The Bassnium..............Magnet ability would lend itself real well if Bass had attacks centered around close range...which he doesn't, and very much could given all the instances in MM games where he can kick and dash: changing the Magnet Golf altfire ability with the arcade games' somersault kick would be really neat. A class based around mobility also doesn't need as much HP as it does currently.

If Bass is supposed to be relatable to the Scout, then Bass being able to move around pretty quickly (a dash) while dishing high close range damage (somersault kick) and having a subpar but effective long range option (current version of weakened Bass Buster) is what we should be playing as; instead, we're playing as a class with broken portals, pit protection-less flinging, more health than Proto Man AND special weapons because woop woop. Please reconsider Bass' attacks: movement control lends itself to discover exploitable map design with worse results than with just increased player mobility.

Duo: Duo does its tank job very well...IMO too well, because 2500 is a lot of HP (with albeit slow but present regeneration to boot), 2000 HP with no regeneration might be the way to go (in fact, no class other than Roll should have HP regen, but Duo especially shouldn't). Weakening Duo Fist makes no sense whatsoever, as even a regular Duo Fist would still be overshadowed by the "Cosmic Lock" attack, which is pretty much a vampire stunlock Black Hole Bomb that lasts for too long AND gives a 2500 HP class damage resistance. I'd say remove the damage resistance on Cosmic Lock, ditch the range reduction on Duo Fist, and nerf his HP to 2000. Sacrifice lends itself to terrible situations in which an ally can throw itself into a pit, inmediately switch places with Duo and instantly kill him...please fix this. Also why even use special weapons when you have Cosmic Stunlock.

Roll: Finally, a healing class that's to be used with other players online: my dream is coming true...too bad it's bloated with abilities; I think this is a trend in this mod, way too many abilities doing many different things in a single class. Healing beam NOT being the mainfire attack was misleading at first, but the insane rate of fire and range of the Ultra Pink Petal Chaingun of Love just makes it all the more jarring and confusing. After toying around with the healing beam and the Amputator (because it's the fucking TF2 Amputator), I found both a bug AND the most optimal and balanced method of healing I've ever seen in this support-forsaken game: I was able to move around while also having the Amputator active, so I was both healing a Duo, moving, and taking increased damage while doing so (or erosion...I don't fucking know, this shit has too many variables it makes me tired and too grumpy to give a shit about following them). I felt like that was far more compelling and effective and fun and fair than the healing beam (there's a reason why the Medigun beams autolock onto allies in TF2), which requires aim and doesn't heal as much. The Ultra Pink Petal Chaingun of Love also has a Blutsauger mode...woop, even more shit to follow. And there's also Saxton Rage or something.

Look, just give me a weak Bass Buster with the same RoF and maybe vampire (cuz that's a trend), and the rustifying Amputator without the stupid movement lock restriction. Animuu rage, Ultra Pink Petal Chaingun of Love and its brother Ultra Pink and White Petal Vampire Chaingun of Love, MLG pro Medigun that doesn't lock into targets, and that OP as fuck Major Recovery ability can be removed: they are obnoxious, trendy accesories.

Wil-ok, I've had enough. Wily has so many attacks, I can't even muster the effort to give a shit about criticizing him.

I'm sorry: I am 100% happy that you've put so much effort into working on a class mod that actually gives a shit about support classes and teamwork and all that jazz, I 100% agree with this mentality, I love support classes and abilities, I love teamwork, and I love you for actually thinking this is important, this God-forsaken game has no fucking teamwork, it makes me cry every time nobody gives a shit about anybody and just goes Doomguy on people, forgetting about their team like a hardass 80s action movie protagonist. But some classes do and have so much shit, that it's very hard to follow them, let alone follow a whole team of them, let alone following TWO teams full of them. I was in the public server today (and I am putting this out for people to see, if they even read this), I mentioned how these classes do so much shit and how it's very hard to grasp what a class is supposed to do or how its supposed to do them by just playing the game for a few minutes, I told you this as I was being bombarded with stimuli with only 8 players active, I am very much still shocked by how much shit this one little mod has in store right now and at the start of its public release...and you told me I should just "read the guide".

No.

You shouldn't need to pick up and read a guide to start playing the game.

Games should lend themselves to be understandable as soon as they're picked up and tinkered with for a few minutes or hours. As of this writing, I am still wrapping my head around many of these classes' abilities, even after reading The Guide and having The Game up and running, testing and toying around with bots as I was writing this. Some classes have way too many things going on for them, some of which just throw off the general balance oout the window, or just simply are both accesory and empty, contributing barely nothing to the game other than more goddamned stimuli. Just thinking about all the variables and attacks makes me frustrated, because EVERYTHING COULD BE SO MUCH SIMPLER, AND IT MUST. This is only enhanced with multiple players.






And I forgot: Mega being a walking map wide dispenser and Bass throwing portals and magnetgolfing people to death are not in-character. I know, this argument is dumb, but its still pretty out there, a huge stretch even for the "support" argument...

[JaxOf7]

What with all the class mods that gasp at the thought of having 2 weapons, I applaud a more complex mod.
However, I am also a speaker for consistency and minimizing complexity, so some suggestions on that front.

Megaman:
Make the rush coil weapon selectable ONLY by alt.

Protoman:
Get rid of break mode, have marking people be a passive for when he isn't using precipitation.
(Managing precipitation, break, and ammo all at once is complex and just not very fun. Also only being able to mark before a precipitation brings a certain depth you don't get from just activating break precipitate and getting easy marks.)

Bass:
Alt on LMS weapons switches to bass buster, alt on that is bassnium magnet. (technically less convenient, but is more consistent with cosmic lock and rush coil weapon)

Roll:
Weapon 1: Energy Buster
Weapon 2: Draining Energy Buster
Weapon 3: Love Sanctuary
All alt: Healing beam/mop up turbo
Item: Major Recovery

Wily:
Weapon 1: Fire orb
Weapon 2: Ice orb
Weapon 3: Gravity orb
2 LMS Weapons (alt doesn't do anything)

Last, please remove the erosion percent from the screen, it just clutters up the HUD.
It's only relevant to a Roll using love sanctuary and Duo.
Duo doesn't exactly need to know that he always has a bit more erosion than other classes in order to be played (and a simple note in the guide would suffice).
As for Roll, you could indeed just display a +20% on the hud when using love sanctuary.

[RageBurner]

I know this particular topic is mostly about the classes mod, but I'd like to thank the work Stardust did with the damage display mod. I find it hugely useful, so thank you for that.
Are there going to be more updates on it? I think the option to see weapon energy (primary, secondary) as numbers, as it already happens with life energy, would be nice, even if a little out of character.

[alexparr]

If you got here using Google, good for you!
CAUSE IT WAS HARD FOR ME!!!!  

[Hilman170499]

Sorry for the bump, but I've been wanting to say this for a while now:

If you're still working on XOver Weps, a big problem is that one can accidentally make the wrong XOvers(as I call the combined weapons). You see, in an intense match, someone would wrench a weapon to make their desired XOVer in advance. However, there are instances where someone would try to make a different weapon, forgetting that they already have a weapon wrenched, resulting in the wrong weapons.

Long story short, what about make an icon in the GUI showing which weapon you already have wrenched? Thanks in advance.

[JaxOf7]

Your brief attention please:
http://allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=damagescorev1b.pk3


Wasn't sure whether to make a new thread, but I made this for boss mods. Though it does technically work with other stuff.

[alexparr]

Why does nobody know that Best Ever got TERMINATED?!

[GameAndWatcher]

Could you please stop bumping dead topics without bringing up anything relevant to the main topic?

[alexparr]

Sorry. I was 11 when I typed that. What an idiot I was!

[alexparr]

if anyone needs shr++, have no fear, alex is here https://web.archive.org/web/20151025101358/http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=saxtonhalerebirth%2B%2Bv2fhh.pk3

[alexparr]

the music however is nowhere to be found right now :/

and no it's not v5 compatible, you need v4

[JaxOf7]

just updated with named scripts and made the print better
https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=damagescorev1c.pk3

[Stardust]

(click to show/hide)

[Elementman.EXE]

will there be an update to xover weapons in the near future