GVH: Nordic Saga, and the GVH forking

[CarThief]

I'll be damned if we need lawyers to arrange such a simple dispute that is simply a matter of etiquette (and some rights, if you ask me). Everyone else follows these standards, you, or some other representative of the NS team respectfully followed these standards with Ivory and DTD's map request. I am entitled to the same.

So pretty much what he all said. Just hope it wont come to the point i'll have to call Cutman and see what lecture he has for this.

[CutmanMike]

Problem is, there's nothing really you can do about it (at least in the world of doom modding) other than request. Even if the maps WERE removed from the GVH:NS build, what's to stop them just running the server with the GVH maps pk3?

I don't really agree with the whole "terms and conditions" thing posted really though, GVH is still mine and Carthief is the lead dev regardless. As far as for what's official and what isn't, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, GVH:NS is the thing that's getting played the most at the moment no?

Doom modding is a very sketchy area when it comes to what's legal and right. Beyond asking nicely, there's probably not much else you (or I) can do to get them removed.

My advice would be to just let it go and go make something else awesome. That's what I'm doing  

[Myroc]

You cannot copyright your maps because they already use copyrighted material from IDGames and other sources which they allow people to freely use.

That's not quite how copyright works, boy.

In any country that follows the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, copyright is automatic, and is enforceable once it has been implemented in a tangible form. The methods of its creation matters not; Trying to claim that he can't claim copyright for his maps simply because they use base technology made by another entity is like trying to claim that an artist can't claim copyright on his painting because he's painted it with certain brushes. Not to mention that said base technology is freely usable, as you just said.

CarThief (and all mapmakers by extension) can utilize all exclusive rights inherent to copyrighted material, which includes, among other things:

    * to produce copies or reproductions of the work (and to sell those copies, although this is irrelevant in this matter)
    * to create derivative works (works that adapt the original work)
    * to perform or display the work publicly
    * to sell or assign these rights to others

Exclusive rights, in this case means, rights freely excersizable by the holder of the copyright, and only the holder of the copyright unless given permission by him. You are using a copy of his work without his permission, and he has requested that you remove it. This is something that's theoretically (but not practically, due to the non-standard nature of digital works) enforcable by court. By not removing those maps despite his requests, you are technically a criminal.

[CarThief]

I guess its a bit of a different matter on what people want to run on servers. Though all those requests in order to simply remove a few maps is utterly rediculous and offensive, almost.

Lets just hope they will act better as they show themselves to be. Doubtfull this would be a valid matter to take to the admins though? One can hope... Heh.

I just hope people will keep it professional this time though. Last topic litterally exploded.

[Tor-Bjorn]

I just hope people will keep it professional this time though. Last topic literally exploded.

That's not quite how copyright works, boy.

I appreciate you offering you knowledge on copyright laws, but please refrain from sneaking insults into your posts. It's remarks like those that instigated a flame war and got the last thread locked.

To contribute to this thread: When we get the chance we well be removing some un-played maps (most of which by Carthief and Ivory's map) so both parties are winning in this scenario.



Like Carthief said, let's try and keep it civil this time

-Cheers

[CarThief]

Eh, you know what i want. I need my sleep now though, just hope it wont explode like the previous topic, while i was sleeping.
Whatever the case removing those maps (like the other two) in total should be perfectly possible, all information how so has been posted here and there. Lets just hope it stays open when im back from work so there's a topic left to request the map removal in, though my gut-instincts tell me otherwise. Good luck.

[Joseph Collins]

Terms and conditions.  For a free modification of a free modification of an off-shoot of an off-shoot of two off-shoots of the Doom engine.  ... I'm sorry, what?

Really, do you have to be quite this... well... over-the-top about what should be a trivial matter such someone requesting their maps, maps they personally created, be removed from your modification? (Of a modification, of an off-shoot, of yadda yadda yadda)  I mean, honestly?  You're not winning any praises here with your handling of this situation.  You can't seriously expect to just throw a bunch of legalese at the matter and hope it goes away.  The fact of the matter is that CarThief has been very patient with you on an issue that should not even be an issue in the first place.

Look, I could piss and moan but...  Just remove the maps.  The map files themselves.  In some future version.  No one's saying "get rid of them right now, I don't care if you have to release a new 200 MB download to do it!".  CarThief just wants his maps removed, physically removed, at your next best convenience.  So just... remove the maps, would'ja?  It's the decent thing to do.

[Myroc]

I appreciate you offering you knowledge on copyright laws, but please refrain from sneaking insults into your posts. It's remarks like those that instigated a flame war and got the last thread locked.

My apologies. It was never my intention to reboot the previous flame war. All things considered it was rather tame compared to the other thread, but for the sake of civility I will try to refrain from them in the near future.

[CarThief]

On second thought i'll just make a new post and delete my previous one so it isnt an actual doublepost, and still gets some attention.

So, an status update on the map issue would be of use. Are there plans for their removal, or their actual removal, or is there any proper reason why such a request could not be simply executed.

Edit: Hm... Where'd they go, im fairly sure they didnt end up banned or anything so i wonder whats with the lack of response aside to stall map removal or to completely unethically ignore it. Oh well i wouldnt be suprised...

[Clownman]

NC is a not balanced... it just... BAD. also whats up with the voices? Marine sounds stupid. Why does hunter sound diffrent? i prefered his old voice. cyborg has an annoying breathing sound and the only class unchanged is ghostbuster. im fine with the tf2 engineer voice for the engineer but EVERYONE ELSE SOUNDS STUPID. why do ghouls get ranged attacks? because of this i cannot get a single frag. WHY?

[Ivory]

Why did you revive this topic? Let's not reopen and old wound.

[CarThief]

I'll just quickly add: Yeah they dont seem to be around here anymore, anyway. Feel free to press this matter onto them if they decide to open up a new topic in here. Assuming thats all within the rules, this being locked and all anyway. Dont remember if they got any other topics left open.