Cutstuff Forum

Gaming => The Ghoul's Forest => Topic started by: Blox on October 11, 2009, 06:03:59 PM

Title: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on October 11, 2009, 06:03:59 PM
Firstly, you should know that being Sjas is no easy task, if you want to be the EVIL Sjas.

Very basic requirement: Set your controls up like this;
(click to show/hide)

Effective things:


Now, I hope it's a bit better now!
Edit: Okay, my problem strikes yet again - I-Fail-At-Explaining.  :-|
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Wartorn on October 11, 2009, 06:39:39 PM
Strangely enough I was already writing a guide on Sjas, but it was a bit more in-depth than this. There's alot of factors to Sjas than just what type of techniques and situations present. To be an effective Sjas you would need to know how to move in every direction at an efficient speed.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on October 11, 2009, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
Strangely enough I was already writing a guide on Sjas, but it was a bit more in-depth than this. There's alot of factors to Sjas than just what type of techniques and situations present. To be an effective Sjas you would need to know how to move in every direction at an efficient speed.

Yeah, there's more to sjas then the eye meets.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on October 12, 2009, 07:12:52 AM
Well, it's pretty hard to write much of a guide in 20 minutes, eh. Sorry. :/
Edit: Damn, I suck at explaining..
Back to work with me!
Little notice, I stop being at my computer at 08:00 PM GMT+01:00 (Aka 07:00 PM here.) And that's why this "guide" was so bad and unfinished. :l
But I'm not finished yet, because there's still a big lot to tell, and a lot to reveal. (D:)
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 12, 2009, 09:04:52 AM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
There's alot of factors to Sjas than just what type of techniques and situations present. To be an effective Sjas you would need to know how to move in every direction at an efficient speed.

And here's me thinking it was just "You can fly, get as close as possible and kill stuff"  :shock:
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on October 12, 2009, 11:42:52 AM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
And here's me thinking it was just "You can fly, get as close as possible and kill stuff"  :shock:
Well, actually. It is!  :shock:
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 12, 2009, 11:51:47 AM
I know, but you guys are digging deeper and making it all technical. I like it!  :p
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on October 12, 2009, 11:58:04 AM
Your controls are so foreign to how I play with my sjas. I run my wasd as
On my netbook (which I am currently using now), I alternate Mouse 2 with secondary fire and have F as open. The key strategy is behind my weird design is for speed only. I try to focus only on movement without thinking so much on whether to move back or forward as a Sjas. As such, I tap w and d repeatedly for the up/down sjas spam. The reason secondary fire is so far away is because on the PC, I really have no use for it because my evasion is much more precise. So I have the right click as open doors to pursue or flea much faster without scrambling to think of which position a command is on. As you can tell, most of my dirctional use is based on my mouselook direction for which way I am going.

On the netbook, I am not as good with a Sjas so I need secondary fire to repel attacks in tighter spaces.

I also use the arrow keys to move. I also use KP4 and KP5 to switch weapons instead of mousewheel (because I broke the wheel).

This is assuming Mouse 3 is the wheel when you push down. Then if I am right, and it isn't mouse 2, then I just use my middle finger and hold onto the button while I fly around and use wasd. With any other class, I switch to arrow keys (or on the netbook, it is UHJK, spacebar as jump).

A little arrogant to suggest that people try out my configuration, but some can vouch that it must be effective as I have a tendency to survive a lot of my matches either for a long period of time or with little health.. and it's incredibly lazy.

Also Marines are your worst enemy because of hitscan weaponry. I suggest avoiding direct confrontation as much as possible, and only come in when their back is turned (or they are facing something else entirely).
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Wartorn on October 12, 2009, 01:30:25 PM
In my opinion, repelling would only save you like once in a regular battlefield. It's useful though for those situations where your teammates screw you over :p

Also hi Mobius :)
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 12, 2009, 01:32:09 PM
It's good against Cyborgs and Ghostbusters who don't know what they're doing. I'd like to make it more useful but liminationssssssssssss
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on October 12, 2009, 02:04:04 PM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
In my opinion, repelling would only save you like once in a regular battlefield. It's useful though for those situations where your teammates screw you over :p

Also hi Mobius :)

I try to avoid it as much as possible because people just fire when you're done, and the lag that is caused after the reflection is cast is enough to get a good fire arrow/shotgun to the face.

One free hit no sjas player should allow to happen.

Oh! Hi Warton  :o
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Minus on October 13, 2009, 03:07:45 AM
All I have is Mouse 4 as Fly Up and Mouse 5 as Fly Down. I fly really fast, sometimes even catching hunters, but my ping is fail. I only really reflect if I'm bored or theres a corridor with Hunter or Cyborg.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on October 13, 2009, 05:44:33 AM
Quote from: "Minus"
All I have is Mouse 4 as Fly Up and Mouse 5 as Fly Down. I fly really fast, sometimes even catching hunters, but my ping is fail. I only really reflect if I'm bored or theres a corridor with Hunter or Cyborg.
I would also have it like that, if I still could use my wireless mouse. Which has bigger mouse4 and mouse5 buttons. D:
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Wartorn on October 13, 2009, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: "Minus"
All I have is Mouse 4 as Fly Up and Mouse 5 as Fly Down. I fly really fast, sometimes even catching hunters, but my ping is fail.
I'm gonna point out that lag actually has next to no affect on a Sjas, yeah, movement lag maybe [where you're stuck in a tiny hold but you actually see yourself as moving ahead], but it will not effect you until maybe 98a (Stupid new netcode :? )
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 13, 2009, 01:35:27 PM
Well yeah, ping has no effect... except that you don't know where the humans are! (or their projectiles.)
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Wartorn on October 13, 2009, 01:41:25 PM
That doesn't make much sense. Projectiles/OTHER entities are always moving since you're still connected and can still see THEM moving around.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 13, 2009, 02:01:26 PM
Then I'm not sure if we're still talking about ping or lag. I know that ping effectively increases reaction time. But I don't usually lose connection. (Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. :P )
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mati on October 13, 2009, 05:43:00 PM
Heh I'm not using SR50, fly down and playing with arrows instead of wasd and I'm pretty good as sjas.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Minus on October 13, 2009, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
Quote from: "Minus"
All I have is Mouse 4 as Fly Up and Mouse 5 as Fly Down. I fly really fast, sometimes even catching hunters, but my ping is fail.
I'm gonna point out that lag actually has next to no affect on a Sjas, yeah, movement lag maybe [where you're stuck in a tiny hold but you actually see yourself as moving ahead], but it will not effect you until maybe 98a (Stupid new netcode :? )
Well, having delayed scream attacks isn't very nice. :cry:
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Wartorn on October 13, 2009, 06:51:18 PM
Quote from: "Minus"
Well, having delayed scream attacks isn't very nice. :cry:
It's not that bad if you're playing on that Oblacek server/3Bet from Europe. In my POV I've only gotten this like once or twice in the past month.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on October 14, 2009, 03:29:51 AM
You should have been on last night then. The lag in the server was so horrible, I swore that everyone was teleporting. In my attempt to shark as a sjas, the screams were delayed by 3 seconds.

I promptly ragequit after being on for about an hour. >:[

To contribute:

Sharking is a term I came up to describe a sjas gliding on the ground to kill unsuspecting humans for good amount of time without fying up. This is a tactic that sjas players should utilize when the humans are distracted with other players or there is plenty of cover. You hold down Fly-down and you move about like you would a Choke. Do not engage cyborgs or hunters directly and in enclosed environment.

Best done in outdoor maps where there is a lot of corners or cover.

Now if the strategy is alrady named, then I apologize ;/

Not to be confused with the other type of sharking.. and if you know what that means, I certainly must ask, "how?"
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Minus on October 14, 2009, 04:10:20 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
You should have been on last night then. The lag in the server was so horrible, I swore that everyone was teleporting. In my attempt to shark as a sjas, the screams were delayed by 3 seconds.

I promptly ragequit after being on for about an hour. >:[

To contribute:

Sharking is a term I came up to describe a sjas gliding on the ground to kill unsuspecting humans for good amount of time without fying up. This is a tactic that sjas players should utilize when the humans are distracted with other players or there is plenty of cover. You hold down Fly-down and you move about like you would a Choke. Do not engage cyborgs or hunters directly and in enclosed environment.

Best done in outdoor maps where there is a lot of corners or cover.

Now if the strategy is alrady named, then I apologize ;/

Not to be confused with the other type of sharking.. and if you know what that means, I certainly must ask, "how?"
I was on when that was happening, i was [TH]ReimuHakurei :p
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on October 14, 2009, 04:40:34 AM
I don't recall whether or not it actually worked on you precisely. I know it has worked a modest amount of times before like the Duke map or that factory map with the giant water area.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Lighting on October 15, 2009, 04:21:38 PM
Well, I use those controls:
Move Up: Arrow Up
Move Down: Arrow Down
Move Left: Arrow Left
Move Right: Arrow right
Look: Mouse
First fire: Mouse 1
Secondary fire: Mouse 2
Fly Up: KP_4
Fly Down: KP_6

I play good as a SJAS with those controls, i kill three humans in a row (get archivement "send of corpses" xd)
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 16, 2009, 02:06:46 AM
This is getting a little off-topic, but fly up/down controls are pretty important to the sjas, right? :mrgreen:

Forward: T
Back: F
Move Left: F
Move Right: H
Fly Up: Z
Fly Down: X
Attack: Mouse1
Secondary Attack: Mouse3
SR50: Mouse2
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on October 16, 2009, 05:34:34 AM
Actually, no. You can dodge like a madman without them using only the mouse. :P
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on October 16, 2009, 05:43:57 AM
Quote from: "Qent"
This is getting a little off-topic, but fly up/down controls are pretty important to the sjas, right? :mrgreen:

Yeah, they make you bitchy hard to hit. And you can go up and down while still being able to track your enemy 100%.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on October 16, 2009, 10:23:16 AM
Quote from: "Blox"
Actually, no. You can dodge like a madman without them using only the mouse. :P
Correct me if I am wrong, but strife+up+down is faster than Mouse look dodging.

:X

Especially firearrow and Plasma/Proton spam
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 19, 2009, 01:37:39 PM
For fixing "sjas hax," I think NOGRAVITY is (and was) a good temporary solution. Obviously it would make the dive impossible. The silent glide and speed hack would still be possible, but since the sjas can no longer avoid obstacles on the floor or the ceiling (if he jumps to avoid something on the floor then he slowly drifts into the sky), it would give less of an advantage.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 19, 2009, 02:09:10 PM
That's what I'm doing unless Torr can simply do a land disallow feature. I still don't get the silent hack and can't do it, how does it work again?
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 19, 2009, 02:43:58 PM
1. Land.
2. Jump continually, so you stay in the air. Don't fly up or down.
3. Start moving in some direction.
4. Stop accelerating so you just keep drifting in that direction.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 19, 2009, 02:53:15 PM
Ohh I see what you mean. God dammit there's no end to this land bullcrap  :mad: That isn't as bad as the extra speed but grr
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on October 19, 2009, 03:04:31 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Ohh I see what you mean. God dammit there's no end to this land bullcrap  :mad: That isn't as bad as the extra speed but grr

Nothing is more terrifying than a sjas creeping up on you!
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Ivory on October 19, 2009, 03:08:37 PM
Gotta love that Doom Engine and all its little quirks, huh? Of course we do, thats why its still popular after all these years.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on October 21, 2009, 09:04:37 AM
Quote from: "Torr Samaho"
The new CVAR compat_noland wants to be tested ;): LINK

This guy is awsum
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on October 31, 2009, 06:15:37 PM
.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Qent on October 31, 2009, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: "pucy100"
you know what i mean
Yep: you have a terrible control config. XD
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on October 31, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Robjoe on November 01, 2009, 07:45:58 AM
Quote from: "pucy100"
because i'm playing with my keyboard! :p
No, I'm pretty sure it's because you are Pucy...

In other news, glad to hear the Land "exploit" has been fixed. I never had it used on me, but I can see where it sucked. After all, I used it once and felt like a cheap whore afterwards!
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on November 01, 2009, 08:15:24 AM
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Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Xorpedo on November 01, 2009, 09:46:33 AM
Nice Guide -  I pretty much agree with the title: Flying slaughter machine - its true :D
Sjas isnt effective only with his scream attack. Yesterday me and Tai did the same thing in 2 rounds. In GVH11, it was 3 hunters vs me sjas and i killed 'em all with ice arrows reflection, and won! Suck noobs. A round later Tai did it too bbut with 4 humans vs him (sjas). LOLOLOL Such noobs
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Mobius on November 04, 2009, 08:25:31 PM
Quote from: "BloodRaven"
Nice Guide -  I pretty much agree with the title: Flying slaughter machine - its true :D
Sjas isnt effective only with his scream attack. Yesterday me and Tai did the same thing in 2 rounds. In GVH11, it was 3 hunters vs me sjas and i killed 'em all with ice arrows reflection, and won! Suck noobs. A round later Tai did it too bbut with 4 humans vs him (sjas). LOLOLOL Such noobs

Bragging thread is ------->Here (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=58)
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Xorpedo on November 08, 2009, 06:10:36 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "BloodRaven"
Nice Guide -  I pretty much agree with the title: Flying slaughter machine - its true :D
Sjas isnt effective only with his scream attack. Yesterday me and Tai did the same thing in 2 rounds. In GVH11, it was 3 hunters vs me sjas and i killed 'em all with ice arrows reflection, and won! Suck noobs. A round later Tai did it too but with 4 humans vs him (sjas). LOLOLOL Such noobs

Bragging thread is ------->Here (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=58)
Hum?? I only said why is that title right! Why the mood like someone cut off your nuts?
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: TERRORsphere on November 08, 2009, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: "BloodRaven"
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "BloodRaven"
Nice Guide -  I pretty much agree with the title: Flying slaughter machine - its true :D
Sjas isnt effective only with his scream attack. Yesterday me and Tai did the same thing in 2 rounds. In GVH11, it was 3 hunters vs me sjas and i killed 'em all with ice arrows reflection, and won! Suck noobs. A round later Tai did it too but with 4 humans vs him (sjas). LOLOLOL Such noobs

Bragging thread is ------->Here (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=58)
Hum?? I only said why is that title right! Why the mood like someone cut off your nuts?
Did it take you 4 days to think that one up?
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Xorpedo on November 09, 2009, 01:45:09 PM
I wasnt on te forums for 4 days -_-
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Blox on November 09, 2009, 06:15:25 PM
This tutorial is pretty much dead.. Mostly because I can't find the words, time or simply said; "I FAIL AT EXPLAINING!!" D:
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 09, 2009, 07:07:52 AM
So yesterday i was playing a match on mobius skill server and we got owned and owned again by a billion of sjas's. In my eyes he's grown too strong because all the other classes have gotten weaker. Using tricks to outrun everybody while spamming fly up fly down, being incredibly hard to hit and killing every body in a quick second. SR-50 isn't the only trick left to make him go faster than intended btw. There used to be the hunter arrows that kept sjas' from mindlessly charging at you or they where at risk of getting killed easily. Nowadays there's nothing from stopping them charging right into you and you can't get out because they are too fast. Every class got a nerf because some people got too good with them and it's about time sjas gets one.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: ThaMarine on December 09, 2009, 01:14:34 PM
The best weapon against multiple Sjases is Cyborg plasma, but as every human weapon (except MAYBE shotgun), it got weaker as of Beta 5.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Free Hugs! on December 09, 2009, 04:29:47 PM
Since I'm so used to playing TF2, I mapped my GVH controls to be practically the same as those (WASD movement, mouselook and a wide variety of weird chat bindings which some of you may have noticed).  The only differences being that I left space as the use key,then set z as the jump key and c as the swim down key, solely for playing as Sjas.
Being able to move silently as Sjas is a huge advantage on some levels, even if you're limited to the y-axis whilst doing so.  People just don't look up if they can't hear Sjas.  It's also handy for taking breaks from that ear-splitting scream in order to echolocate foes whilst still being able to triangulate them using the vertical axis.
Never tried the SR50 trick, but losing my ability to turn would be a huge tradeoff for such a situational advantage.  Plus it sounds tricky enough that I'd have to use the automation, and that seems to be pretty much considered cheating.
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2009, 04:59:52 PM
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Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 07:03:36 AM
Point is he can just charge in mindless with super speed and kill everyone. They used to be more carefully and more tactical because otherwise they would die. Right now there's nothing to stop a good sjas.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on December 10, 2009, 09:58:56 AM
Any ideas how to make it a bit more fair without ruining the game for Sjas?
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
it be nice if you could invent something that would cap his speed, so he won't be all superrr-fast anymore.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on December 10, 2009, 12:58:10 PM
I know but with people using SR50 and people not using SR50 it's a bit inconsistent. If I make him slower people who don't use SR50 will feel the burn more than those who do. Trying to ban SR50 causes people to throw a wobbly. I *could* prevent Sjas from strafing but that would probably break his manoeuvrability completely.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 01:02:05 PM
no i mean, the speed he's got now is okay. I was wondering is you could find a way to stop them exceeding his current speed with tricks and zdoom engine stuff.
So basically if you know nothing about sr50 and stuff, you won't notice a difference.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on December 10, 2009, 01:05:41 PM
Well I *tried* to check for what speed he's travelling at but there seems to be no easy way to detect the exact speed while straferunning. There's no way for me to cap the speed to stop people using SR50 or I would have done that already :(
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CarThief on December 10, 2009, 03:24:42 PM
Wow, a bot that cannot strafe with his class would act really retarded, i can already imagine, lol.

But yeah... I suppose Sjas can be tricky but thats where making use of the area probaly comes in handy, large open spots for marines and overpowered projectile spam in close quarters, i suppose. I cant really think of an way to stop this SR50 trick, but trying to do so might ruin an already decent class.

Perhaps you could request from the ST folks that they have some anti SR50 flag implemented?
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CutmanMike on December 10, 2009, 03:29:19 PM
Suggested it and got molotov'd for even thinking such a thing.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CarThief on December 10, 2009, 03:57:04 PM
I dont see why they'd no so fast and without hassle. I mean, it would just be a server flag, something the server could decide, heh.
Meh, people. They want SR50 gone, and some want to marry it. :P

Ah well, i dont think there's any solution to it other then having a flag or new command in ACS or whatever it is. Not that many people use it in GVH, i guess.
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Wow, a bot that cannot strafe with his class would act really retarded, i can already imagine, lol.

But yeah... I suppose Sjas can be tricky but thats where making use of the area probaly comes in handy, large open spots for marines and overpowered projectile spam in close quarters, i suppose. I cant really think of an way to stop this SR50 trick, but trying to do so might ruin an already decent class.

Perhaps you could request from the ST folks that they have some anti SR50 flag implemented?

thats the problem, with those speed tricks and fly up fly down he's incredibly fast and incredibly hard to hit. So there's no need to be tactical anymore, just fly in with the speed of light and kill.

btw, this is gvh not classic doom, ,maybe try something as "a flag that allows a speedcap that cannot be exceed by any means (gravity,rocketjumping,straferunning,bunny hopping)"
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: CarThief on December 10, 2009, 05:00:15 PM
Hmm... Would be usefull. But i wouldnt be suprised if they did something nasty to Cutman if he passed trough that suggestion. :P

Hmm... In servere situations you still gotta be tactical, a group of marines serves as an anti-air turret basically. Best to attack them as an group, but yeah, if an entire swarm of sjas's comes at you, your fucked without cover in tiny spots. :P
Title: Re: Sjas - The flying slaughtering machine
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Hmm... Would be usefull. But i wouldnt be suprised if they did something nasty to Cutman if he passed trough that suggestion. :P

Hmm... In servere situations you still gotta be tactical, a group of marines serves as an anti-air turret basically. Best to attack them as an group, but yeah, if an entire swarm of sjas's comes at you, your fucked without cover in tiny spots. :P

a ghoul is never alone ;p, where there is a swarm of marines there is a swarm of ghouls.