Cutstuff Forum

Gaming => The Ghoul's Forest => Topic started by: CutmanMike on November 30, 2009, 11:33:42 PM

Title: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on November 30, 2009, 11:33:42 PM
To save clogging up the forum, post feedback for CD here. Negative and positive welcome.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Knux on December 01, 2009, 12:12:39 AM
*checks maps*

...

*doesn't find his map*

I am cry.  :?

EDIT: BAH, BAH I SAY! It's my own fault for not thinking about the gameplay first!  :p Well, to be honest, this map wasn't going to be originally for CD, but something I decided to do one fine day out of boredom. I went to a park in my town, sketched it on a notebook, and mapped it in DB (adding stuff, of course). Then, I thought it would be a good idea to submit it. Derp.

Well, I am working on another map which should be pretty convincing, though it's late already. Unless Cutman plans to release an update of the wad in the future... still, I'm gonna keep mapping it. Thanks for the chance, man.  :)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 12:19:28 AM
Ghouls win almost every time in huge games.

Lol. I don't think it's a huge map problem just yet, more or less human players needed to adjust; Although, as Damage put it, "The maps we complained before about being human maps are easily turning to ghouls," but this could be attributed to a poor human team during my SKILL server test.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Grymmoire on December 01, 2009, 01:19:09 AM
Most of the maps were dominated by ghouls en mass because everyone shifted over to the ghoul side, but even when the teams were sometimes balanced out the game favored ghouls (keep in mind that this is with many players). The failure on the part of the humans could have been attributed to lack of skill tough, not to mention the usual new class spam that goes on. Honestly, it is too hard to discern this early on exactly what is good and what is bad, but one thing is for sure, GVH29 is still too big. No matter how many ghouls went up against the humans, they got sniped with no cover.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 02:05:54 AM
Gvh23 seems to be lag fest until I changed the map, but this could be me.. but I wasn't even playing when pings started bouncing up and down.

I also got word that Frostbite's breath en mass causes lag, but I rather wait and see it on another server that isn't mine.

Gvh29 is still terrible on cover, and the tower is the perfect sniping position for marine pistols on creepers or any other ghoul (as I have proven by killing creepers from up there with pistols).

Everyone seems to hate gvh30 for some reason.

gvh22 is a camper haven for humans, but it was a 26 man game in my SKILL server when this was happening.

Everyone bitching about Frostbite sucking. I honestly am in love with him, but he does need something to avoid getting buttfucked. I don't mind him being a support class, but a little health will do.. or something about him dying so quickly

Game seems fine overall to me.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Minus on December 01, 2009, 02:57:27 AM
The only thing I don't like is that nearly everyone will be Frostbite or Santa, so it will be hard to tell if either of them are good against certain classes. This will wear off eventually, I know, but it will take a while.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 01, 2009, 03:19:25 AM
So, I hear that GvH29 has too little cover. I'm gonna try to fix some of those, if Cutman allows me.

*Make the big metal flat area under a roof, with supports on the roof. This should give cover for sjas.
*Make a guard-rail around the antenna. That should decrease human mobility a bit.
*Add some more crates and metal blocks everywhere. Less mobility for humans.
*probably just get rid of that sniper tower, or give it open windows. Give the lift greater speed, but it stays down for the same amount of time.

Hope these aren't too extreme. Tell me what you think.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 04:04:27 AM
Okay! Here is some good stuff for everyone!

Gvh29 boxes by the heliport gets creepers stuck. Space them out better
Gvh30 is too detailed for humans and causes fps dips (not sure if it's hardware or software mode). I know it's a nightmare in larger games.

Frostbite needs either speed or health. I would rather slant on health and tell people to focus more on cover than being a bootleg choke or half-assed jitter.

Make the Frostbite's attack less laggish after his jump for smoother transitions or else shotgun chocolates is what's for dinner.

That's all I have.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Captain Ventris on December 01, 2009, 04:32:55 AM
Mik, making the tower a little shorter might work if you feel it would be necessary. Frostbite's breath can ALMOST get inside - it just hits the edge of the chamber, so making it a little shorter would make it vulnerable enough. Also, sjas can injure humans inside by attacking when next to the grate, and Choke can, of course, lob a bloodball inside.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 04:56:48 AM
Quote from: "Captain Ventris"
Mik, making the tower a little shorter might work if you feel it would be necessary. Frostbite's breath can ALMOST get inside - it just hits the edge of the chamber, so making it a little shorter would make it vulnerable enough. Also, sjas can injure humans inside by attacking when next to the grate, and Choke can, of course, lob a bloodball inside.

Provided most of those ghouls aren't dead on the way or trying to kill the single human there. I say this because of the nature of the open map style.

Lower it! >:[
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2009, 06:09:24 AM
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Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 06:14:34 AM
Quote from: "pucy100"
Frostbite has huge teeth!

I know! I recorded a special video about it while playing

Click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9q2OZRjag)
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2009, 08:13:38 AM
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Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 09:17:15 AM
Quote from: "Mik57"
So, I hear that GvH29 has too little cover. I'm gonna try to fix some of those, if Cutman allows me.

Sure. I don't know when a new version should come out but if lag is a big issue for people it may be sooner than I hope!
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 09:47:50 AM
Speaking of lag, I got some complains about Gvh27. How hysterical.

I think Gvh30 can use some spacing to avoid all the corners (despite me not fully agreeing with it). Other people say it's a bit of an fps lagger for all the moving objects and detail.

^ this bullshit aside! I think it's good, but when do we get them ghost buster improvements? :D
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 10:21:08 AM
What complaints? I'll start work on GVH:EWv2 next year when cold demise has no(less) complaints.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
What complaints? I'll start work on GVH:EWv2 next year when cold demise has no(less) complaints.

A few, but the minority, are having the good old, "lag," thingy involving it. It was a small few though, but they went spectate when the map came up.

Quote from: "Cutman"
no(less) complaints.

Quote
Gvh

You mean never, right? ;)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Captain Ventris on December 01, 2009, 12:51:32 PM
The boat map needs... something more. Also, it lags pretty badly while on deck.

The Aeons map needs those candelabras removed - they're just pointless clutter which screws the flow of the map. Also, it's generally an ugly map. The texturing is obnoxious.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: "Captain Ventris"
The boat map needs... something more. Also, it lags pretty badly while on deck.

Arg! Any idea what it is? I thought it was the skybox at first but I replaced it with a large sector instead and apparently it's still lagging folk.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 01:19:23 PM
There is no pleasing you nit-pickers :P I like Gvh30 as a ghoul and human.

I just say space it apart and get rid of a few of the candles so people don't get fps dips when a ghoul dies.

Well it doesn't lag as HORRIBLY as before when you added that thing in. I'd say the removal altogether made it run flawlessly in gl.

Edit* Oh yeah! Santa clause trips over his own grenade with he dies by his own Star Cannon.

And somehow Ghost Busters get hurt by Holly traps when Santa dies, but no other human class is effected.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 01:31:57 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Edit* Oh yeah! Santa clause trips over his own grenade with he dies by his own Star Cannon.

And somehow Ghost Busters get hurt by Holly traps when Santa dies, but no other human class is effected.

Double arggg! I can't fix the tripped over grenade thing because it replaces the only "You blew yourself up" obituary that exists. Ghostbuster needs a flag set to make him not be hurt by the holly. Actually if a Hunter dies while his ice spikes are up you'll probably notice the same thing.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 01:40:45 PM
I never really tried. I am surprised I didn't find out eventually considering how my Gvh server has been up since release with 9584395045858907 people playing it throughout its duration.

Even now..

That is how I am getting a lot of my feedback. I've been playing it for more than 12 hours (it's like the first time I see a consistently active Gvh server).
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 02:20:35 PM
Don't wear it out too much, I still haven't had a go yet!  ;)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Captain Ventris on December 01, 2009, 02:43:01 PM
Also, I believe that Sjas' scream can destroy the holly traps.

About the boat, I remember that one of Mik's ZDWars maps lagged like crazy until he removed the rain effect. I know that will dim the effect of the level, but that might be it, and it makes sense, since the level doesn't lag while inside. Mess with that, or find an alternative method of generating rain or something.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 04:34:56 PM
In that case does GVH26 lag too? That one also uses lots of rain.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Captain Ventris on December 01, 2009, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
In that case does GVH26 lag too? That one also uses lots of rain.
You'll have to remind me of which map GvH26 is. XD
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 01, 2009, 04:46:05 PM
I can't even remember if it's 26 now... Basically the one by DTD that kinda looks like a DM map.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Major Cooke on December 01, 2009, 05:16:30 PM
After I heard Knux's map didn't get accepted, I looked at my map shamefully and thought... This definitely won't work either. I was going to send you the email, cutman, but sadly 1. the power went out, and 2. when I saw the release at an early hour, the design idea became putrid. I didn't want to burden you any further.

I was also struggling with a way to prevent the jitterskulls from flying over the edges of the iceburg, which in turn would make Sjas unable to fly around (and die in the mist from over-time damage), then as I tried to get a new idea in the barrel, to rework the map, but it didn't get done in time. I still have an hour's worth of work to be put into the new map, if you even care to still accept it.

Not to mention, thanksgiving was a nightmare... The whole damn family melted down.

Sorry for letting you down cutman. I'm not trying to make excuses for not turning it in, but if you are still willing to accept the map, I'll turn it in at some point... when the actual bit of the "jolly" mood removes this demotivated side of my creativity...
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 01, 2009, 06:07:28 PM
Well, the "ship map" is okay, but when we talk performance the FPS is so low it turns GvH into a turn based game.

What is the Hollytrap supposed to do? I filled a corridor with 'em, a Creeper passed through and it didn't even hurt him.

Honestly, what is the purpose of the hollytraps?

What does the Star launcher do? It does more damage to the people who fire it than than to the one who is hit.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 01, 2009, 06:17:23 PM
Well, i might as well post some map feedback i've collected.

GVH22 has some trouble with camping spots inside the graves, in particular the large one without the marine stabbed by the sword. Altrough the ghouls can approach from the teleporter, it still may be hard to impossible to counter them. Especially if the ENTIRE team likes to camp there, and the halls in the graveyard are somewhat small, too. The doors even more, its hard to fit a Jitterskull trough there, if i try to nab someone going trough, they fit in, i get stuck on door sides, ussally.

GVH23 does well so far, some like to camp in the room with the switch that can turn off the lights temporarely. Nothing impossible. Not sure what to think of GVH24 other then that the textures could have looked better. But i guess thats standard doom textures made blue. :P

As for GVH25, it could use some major tweaks. Perhaps more cover, but more importantly, more then one tunnel leading from one to the other section. Currently there's 3 big chunks of map connected in a row by tunnels, having 2 or 3 tunnels connect to each chunk of map would do in order to get past humans guarding one entrance and attacking them from behind. Some (especially Mobius) find the ceiling rather low for Sjas, too. And it could perhaps use more cover, in some spots, to not get sniped by a marine/hunter on the other side of the map, atleast.

And GVH26, last time i seen a game, humans dominated. Atleast they're running around more instead of using said camping spot, its alot better now.
As for GVh27, i think you kinda ruined it by completely removing all cover near the pointy end of the ship. Ghouls will heavily reduced in numbers just trying to get there, especially if the entire human team camps there. Perhaps add where that small gap with the fire barrel is a larger gap, with a ladder, containing some cargo? A bit of cover for those who go down, perhaps. Or add more boxes, it can hardly be Jitterrape if you added less then originally where.

I cant think of any feedback for GVH28 other then that some people are reporting that there are a few HOM's left. GVH29 is pretty interesting at large scale games, but marines with accurate shots will destroy any ghoul rather easily. Cyborgs can jump onto the... higher bars that connect the poles around the giant laser shooting pillar, and actually stand on it, standing out of Jitter's reach by being on this bridge thing. Oh well, if your faced against projectile classes and are good at dodging, it might be more fair then meets the eye. Cant think of any feedback at all for GVH30, its... normal.

Oh, and in GVH25, there's also a weird HOM effect Mobius found, i made a screenshot of it since he has trouble doing so. :P
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7209/screenshotdoom200912011.th.png) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/screenshotdoom200912011.png/)

I'm merely guessing some of the map feedback is a tad... repetetive. :P
When it comes to classes, many find Frostbite rather weak, a buff would be of use. And seems Santa's star launcher is rather effective if you use it close range, it may be a bit cruel on the ghouls, but they didnt get me that often with that trick. Hmm... Unless it damages the user now too. :P

Edit: The ship map doesnt seem to lag me. And the new sea is much better too. I only get lag when frostbite uses his breath in that certain location, did you fix that yet?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Xorpedo on December 01, 2009, 06:19:00 PM
OK I just played it:
1. Frost Bite needs to be faster and his bite is innacurate, it needs a bit more spread.
2. Santa is kinda OK but his traps need to be stronger and his star launcher hurts himself too much. I think he needs to be a tiny bit faster.
CD has some cool maps but they give me low FPS as hell.

EDIT: Is the map that Damage made GVH25 with Fallout 2 music?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2009, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: "ThaMarine"
Honestly, what is the purpose of the hollytraps?

What does the Star launcher do? It does more damage to the people who fire it than than to the one who is hit.

Star Launcher is a rocket that gives off splash damage upon contact with a surface (damage to radius). The holly traps are just that. You lay them down on the ground, or throw them with altfire, and ghouls walk over them and they receive a hefty amount of damage.

I don't know what you have seen if ghouls walk over them without a problem. Perhaps you were looking through the wrong camera angle, lag, or a combination of the two? They hurt fine from all the battles I've seen.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Xorpedo on December 01, 2009, 06:23:37 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
The holly traps are just that. You lay them down on the ground, or throw them with altfire, and ghouls walk over them and they receive a hefty amount of damage.

I don't know what you have seen if ghouls walk over them without a problem. Perhaps you were looking through the wrong camera angle, lag, or a combination of the two? They hurt fine from all the battles I've seen.

The holly traps do none damage to me! I crossed one when I was Creeper and I lost 2 hp. Hefty damage? Wouldnt think so.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 01, 2009, 06:24:54 PM
Holly trap's hitboxes are quite small, i can Jitterrape all over them and only get hit like once. :P
And santa's speed seems... decent for a man who eats ALOT of cookies and carries three weapons among them a kind of rocket launcher. :P

I suppose he's... Cyborg-ish. Oh, and i wonder if some people know this, sjas's reflecto scream also removes Santa's traps, since he has like 15 of them, its a nice way to clean up spam.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Xorpedo on December 01, 2009, 06:25:49 PM
By the way could you post us what are the new achievments?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Anonymous on December 01, 2009, 08:06:11 PM
Here Are The Achievements Of Santa and Frost Bite.

Santa
... And a Happy New Year! - Kill 5 ghouls or more ghouls in a single life.
Shooting Star - Kill 3 ghouls with your star launcher.
Santa's Workshop - Kill a ghoul with each of Santa's weapons.

Frost Bite
Blizzard - Kill 3 or more humans with A single breath attack.
2 Cold - Kill two humans with a single bite attack.
Cold Demise - Kill 5 humans or more humans in a single life.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Possesed on December 01, 2009, 08:18:10 PM
I find that if a jitter charges over ice (a friction floor) it charges farther than usual. In one map i was about 2 times the distance of a jitter charge away from a jitterskull and he flew across a small area of ice and crunched me  :mad:
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 01, 2009, 08:41:42 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
I don't know what you have seen if ghouls walk over them without a problem. Perhaps you were looking through the wrong camera angle, lag, or a combination of the two?

Angle? Are you f***ing me? It wasn't too laggy either. I saw a Creeper going through a tight corridor filled with Hollytraps undamaged (and I'm 100% sure he stepped on at least 3 of them).
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: r_rr on December 01, 2009, 11:19:35 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Quote from: "Captain Ventris"
The boat map needs... something more. Also, it lags pretty badly while on deck.

Arg! Any idea what it is? I thought it was the skybox at first but I replaced it with a large sector instead and apparently it's still lagging folk.

It's the rain.  One big mistake I made with this map is not considering people running slower GPU's, non openGL and so on.  Because it's raining in such a large open area, it lags when playing outside.  

Cutman:
If you would like to see anything changed like rain removed or additional things added/changed, just let me know and I'll help out.

Holly traps are very useful, and they do hefty damage in numbers.  Even if they don't instantly kill the creeper, at least you can hear him coming when he hits em.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Wartorn on December 01, 2009, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: "r_rr"
It's the rain.  One big mistake I made with this map is not considering people running slower GPU's, non openGL and so on.  Because it's raining in such a large open area, it lags when playing outside.  
You sure as hell didn't consider people with newer computers either. GTX 260 OC'd, Dual-Core, 6 FPS average.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 02, 2009, 12:04:51 AM
Maybe replacing the rain with a dark gray fog might work? It is the rain. It lags people with lower comps really bad. (My laptop gets about 2 fps on that map while outside.)

I say consider people with bad comps more. If you remove the rain, it just looks a bit worse. No big deal. If you keep the rain, it becomes unplayable to people who don't have a good computer. REALLY big deal. The cons for the rain outweigh the pros, I'd say remove it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 02, 2009, 07:34:33 AM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
Quote from: "r_rr"
It's the rain.  One big mistake I made with this map is not considering people running slower GPU's, non openGL and so on.  Because it's raining in such a large open area, it lags when playing outside.  
You sure as hell didn't consider people with newer computers either. GTX 260 OC'd, Dual-Core, 6 FPS average.

Yeah, I have seen that before. Doom engine in OpenGL mode can act tricky whether your PC is new or old.

My rig:

Pentium 4 2.8 GhZ
2 Gb Kingmax DDR400 RAM
ATI Radeon 9600 XT
Western Digital 120 GB
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 02, 2009, 08:50:40 AM
Other then the bite attack that needs tweaking. I think Frost Bite should resist ice and have a slight weakness to fire . Not much, but honestly I think Frost Bite should be able to survive a point blank range ice arrow attack.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 02, 2009, 09:25:08 AM
Maybe, but is giving him a fire weakness really the right thing to do in terms of balance? People already hate fire arrows.  :p
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 02, 2009, 09:45:34 AM
Yeah, fire weakness was a stupid idea. Frost Bite dies to it just as easily as any other ghoul. However I still think Ice Resistance would be a nice touch.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: dark-slayer-201 on December 02, 2009, 09:50:30 AM
I'd rather the Strange Aeons map the way I had it.
If anyone would like to check out the one that has not been touched by anyone else, Here is the link.
Download (http://download131.mediafire.com/2nlcdwryxdwg/5gwgz1ywmz4/DS-AEoD-Map.wad)
The map is called AEoD
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 02, 2009, 11:11:41 AM
Quote from: "Ivory"
Yeah, fire weakness was a stupid idea. Frost Bite dies to it just as easily as any other ghoul. However I still think Ice Resistance would be a nice touch.

I could but I think if someone pelted shards of ice at your face, regardless of what substance you were made of, it would still hurt :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 02, 2009, 12:59:01 PM
I wouldnt mind Frostbite having ice resistance, hehe... This would make him effective against hunters camping with ice. About 1/3 of the damage or so or whatever that takes like 3 or more full ice hits to kill him might do?
Yes, his attack also needs to be easier to use, i rarely seen people frag someone with his bite attack, unless they where stuck. :P

Only the bots seem more accurate with it, but they can keep an constant eye on the enemy, if you didnt have to look at your target while crunching (like sjas), it might be alot easier to use, even if you keep the same system.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 02, 2009, 04:01:02 PM
Alright. Here are some things I'm going to recommend:

1. Frostbite bleeds red. I don't get it. I say he should bleed blue blood, or smear the ice decal from the Hunter's Ice Arrows.

2. Maybe include some sort of recharging ammo on Santa's Snowball gun, sort of like Frostbite's ice breath. It can be a little annoying when he can constantly pelt you with them with no draw backs on the Santa player.

3. You absolutely need to include just one more icey map, just so you can use the song Winterbliss from Castle Crashers there. =P


Also, if anyone cares, me and Ivory tested last night, some damage values are:
Dropped and set Holly: About 8 damage
Thrown Holly if it hits you while it's flying: About 42 damage
One puff of close-range ice breath: About 18 damage
A solid Frostbite chomp: About 80 damage
One Snowball: Around 8-12 damage

Also, the ice breath has some damage fall off that I think can be a little steep.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 02, 2009, 04:30:59 PM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
1. Frostbite bleeds red. I don't get it. I say he should bleed blue blood, or smear the ice decal from the Hunter's Ice Arrows.

He should be bleeding ice shards, is that not happening?

Quote from: "Robjoe"
3. You absolutely need to include just one more icey map, just so you can use the song Winterbliss from Castle Crashers there. =P

The race track map had it but it was tooooooooo big.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 02, 2009, 04:33:21 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Quote from: "Robjoe"
1. Frostbite bleeds red. I don't get it. I say he should bleed blue blood, or smear the ice decal from the Hunter's Ice Arrows.

He should be bleeding ice shards, is that not happening?
Well, ice chunks do fly off of him in place of blood when you hit him, but I mean the blood DECAL. He bleeds red instead of blue.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 02, 2009, 04:43:32 PM
Ohhh okay, I can fix that
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 02, 2009, 06:43:42 PM
You can have him smear the Hunter's Ice Arrow decals, too. =P

Oh, also, Frostbite needs a "Oof" sound for when you click a wall that does nothing.
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2009, 07:05:19 PM
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Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 02, 2009, 07:09:11 PM
I dont think any ghouls have an oof sound for checking walls.
But anyway, some more tiny map flaws. The Creeper hole in the ship level as shown in the screenshot appears to be too small, its most likely at the engines of the ship.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/835/screenshotdoom200912021.th.png) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/screenshotdoom200912021.png/)
And the cyborg can camp on these bars and actually stand on them, being completely out of ground ghoul's reach, especially Jitterskull.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7884/screenshotdoom200912022.th.png) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/screenshotdoom200912022.png/)
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2009, 07:11:41 PM
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Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 02, 2009, 07:42:54 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
I dont think any ghouls have an oof sound for checking walls.
Sjas screams if you check a wall, and I think Choke might make a noise.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Major Cooke on December 02, 2009, 08:03:39 PM
Quote from: "ds201"
I'd rather the Strange Aeons map the way I had it.
If anyone would like to check out the one that has not been touched by anyone else, Here is the link.
Download (http://download131.mediafire.com/2nlcdwryxdwg/5gwgz1ywmz4/DS-AEoD-Map.wad)
The map is called AEoD

'Scuse me! You are not the author, nor the distributor of the Aeons of Death title map. The map was made by DBThanatos, not you. Don't claim what's not yours, please and thanks.

On top of that, Cutman asked DBThanatos himself if he could take it and modify it, and DBT gave him the permission. Enough said.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 02, 2009, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
Quote from: "CarThief"
I dont think any ghouls have an oof sound for checking walls.
Sjas screams if you check a wall, and I think Choke might make a noise.

Choke doesn't make a noise. In fact, if Choke is currently making a noise (falling or taunting) hitting use on a wall silences him. Which if your fast enough, you can make choke drop large distances without alerting humans. As long as you fall against a wall or you have something to hit use on to silence when choke has landed.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 02, 2009, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: "BloodRaven"
The holly traps do none damage to me! I crossed one when I was Creeper and I lost 2 hp. Hefty damage? Wouldnt think so.

Damage ranges from 2 to 20 (or 30). I died walking on one as a Creeper just to see.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: r_rr on December 02, 2009, 10:43:27 PM
Just curious, how long do Holly Traps last before disappearing?

I've also noticed that Holly Traps do not disappear when the santa who laid them dies, so what happens if someone dies on a dead santa's traps, does the dead santa still get a point?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 02, 2009, 11:09:49 PM
Well, because points don't matter in LMS he gets a "point" because he kills the ghoul. In TDM I don't think anyone would get a point.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Knux on December 03, 2009, 01:12:10 AM
The race track map had it but it was tooooooooo big.

Yes, we get it already.  :p Also, I edited my other post not too long after making it. You might want to take a look.

Now for the maps. I keep hearing people complaining most of them are Creeper maps because of the snow textures. Bah, humbugs, I still like "Hell Froze Over", as overdone hellish themes are. As for Frostbite, I see it as a support Ghoul that helps flush out campers and should always be used in tandem with another ghoul (any, whichever suits the situation better). It's sprite is bigger than I expected it to be, and hiding behind stuff without people noticing it's hair can be tricky.

Santa plays decently, no complaints... for now. >.>
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 03, 2009, 01:40:46 AM
I found Creepers ridiculously easy to find on the snow maps.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 03, 2009, 07:55:59 AM
Yeah, except on Hell Froze Over. But that is really an ice, not a snow map. I have dislikes for that map.
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2009, 09:42:37 AM
.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 03, 2009, 10:46:46 AM
Now I've actually had a play with it I can confirm a lot of these complaints and ideas. Here's what I'm going to do, most of them I've already done though.


Any other issues?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 03, 2009, 11:03:18 AM
Why are sjas's so fast, i got out runned as a sr50-ing hunter. nonononono
Creeper needs more noise.
And did the jitter get a chomp range increase because i was playing on that canadian dm server on the boat map(with the annoying horn) and with one charge they cross half that map.
Church map needs less stuff to bump in to.
circular Snowice map needs a better flow, less jumpmaze more dm.
Lighting magic is lol, in a bad way.
The map with the gaint bowl rules.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 03, 2009, 11:21:25 AM
Keep a hold of your regular GVH comments, I'll update that later on  ;) Speaking of, I've made the lightning magic a bit better (radius damage when it hits).

I found Sjas to be a bit faster actually, caught up with me and surprised me more than once last night. Anyone else noticed if he's any faster or is this just the aftermath of the Jitternerf I'm feeling? :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 03, 2009, 12:14:05 PM
Frits, welcome to my world.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Xorpedo on December 03, 2009, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Now I've actually had a play with it I can confirm a lot of these complaints and ideas. Here's what I'm going to do, most of them I've already done though.

    GVH29 - Mik57 updated with LOTS of extra cover outside.
     GVH29 - Fixed crate traps
     GVH27 - Fixed blocking lines above creates
     GVH27 - A lot less rain
     GVH30 - Remove some blockades (not sure exactly what though)
     Santa - Change the way stars work. Instead of each separate star doing damage, regular stars will do radius damage to anything below it. Altfire stars will just do radius damage over the time it takes for it to die.
     Santa - Make throwing holly do more damage.
     Santa - Make regular Holly damage less random.
     Santa - Make throwing holly work the same way the Hunter's bow works (hold down fire, let go to throw).
     Santa - Make altfire snow projectiles faster.
     Frostbite - Increase speed of breath projectiles.
     Frostbite - Increase radius and damage of bite attack.
     Frostbite - Make the chomp shards block the player's view less.

Any other issues?
Make Frosbite a little bit faster.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 03, 2009, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Keep a hold of your regular GVH comments, I'll update that later on  ;) Speaking of, I've made the lightning magic a bit better (radius damage when it hits).

I found Sjas to be a bit faster actually, caught up with me and surprised me more than once last night. Anyone else noticed if he's any faster or is this just the aftermath of the Jitternerf I'm feeling? :P

Aftermath of jitternerf.

Quote from: "Knux"
Now for the maps. I keep hearing people complaining most of them are Creeper maps because of the snow textures.

I think the maps of CD are superior to EW. Less congestion, more room, some fresh, can swing either or now, and panders to both camping and non-camping. Creepers are no more or less harder to see than putting them in maps with gray colored textures everywhere (like a few of the Ew maps).

Some of them needs work though.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 03, 2009, 03:20:25 PM
Seriously, why does everyone want to improve the hunter only? I think he's strong enough, if the enviroment suits him, he'll be even harder. Hmm... Think he's getting rusty. :P

Well, aside that, Frostbite indeed could use a larger radius, can you tell how large the radius is? I'm guessing its gonna be comparable to Jitter's radius, have the enemy somewhat in sight and it'll do?
And dont forget to do something about the bridge things near the laser beam structure, those where cyborgs can camp on.

And wasnt the throwing holly strong enough? I've heard it did quite much damage, around 40. Well, if you actually hit with it, but vs some ghouls, like Jitterskull needing a pause, that could end up being cruel.

And perhaps Frostbite's breath would be more effecient if it had somewhat longer range, but that's just a random idea. Like most hunter suggestions. Do it (you do those for Hunter too :P).
Not too sure about any other suggestions, but looking forward to what GVH29 will be like.

Oh yeah, regarding the maps, i feel the opposite. EW maps feel superior to CD maps to me. Well, for now, they need ALOT of tweaking. (EW maps are alot more fun, too! Hehe...)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 03, 2009, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
And dont forget to do something about the bridge things near the laser beam structure, those where cyborgs can camp on.

Mik57's taken em out.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Possesed on December 03, 2009, 04:28:53 PM
Frostbite needs a speed boost or smaller hitbox because imo thats why he keeps getting owned because he is sooooo big marines can eaisily shotgun rape him running away, hunters can ice his face with ease running away, cyborgs utterly dominate him occaisionaly letting off some jetpack ect.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 03, 2009, 04:33:13 PM
Just to confirm this for everyone, frostbite is the same physical size as any other human or ghoul. His appearance is bigger but his radius and height is the same as any other class (except the creeper).
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 03, 2009, 04:59:29 PM
.. but he sure can't jump higher than a creeper. :x
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: TERRORsphere on December 03, 2009, 05:02:11 PM
Here are some requests.
Jitterskull needs to leave a trail when jittering. It looks good, try it.

Creeper needs the ability to Ball jump.

Marine needs less grenades.

Holly's altfire needs to be like the bow. Hold the button down, then release.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 03, 2009, 06:12:53 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
Why are sjas's so fast, i got out runned as a sr50-ing hunter. nonononono
Yesyesyesyesyes. If The hunter was faster than Sjas, then Sjas would never be able to catch up to him. And besides, if you're good at the game, you'll have a fair chance of beating Sjas if you stay back and fight. What is it with you and the Hunter anyway, you always want him to be the most broken class in the game...
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 03, 2009, 06:25:50 PM
As far as I have tried, MOST straferunning hunters outrun my sjas ;[
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Wartorn on December 03, 2009, 06:48:54 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
As far as I have tried, MOST straferunning hunters outrun my sjas ;[
However, considering most hunters don't even use SR50/a variant there-of, it's pretty easy to mop up the floor :p
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 03, 2009, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
Quote from: "Frits"
Why are sjas's so fast, i got out runned as a sr50-ing hunter. nonononono
Yesyesyesyesyes. If The hunter was faster than Sjas, then Sjas would never be able to catch up to him. And besides, if you're good at the game, you'll have a fair chance of beating Sjas if you stay back and fight. What is it with you and the Hunter anyway, you always want him to be the most broken class in the game...

Maby in a never ending straight line.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 01:12:45 AM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
Quote from: "Mobius"
As far as I have tried, MOST straferunning hunters outrun my sjas ;[
However, considering most hunters don't even use SR50/a variant there-of, it's pretty easy to mop up the floor :p

I've been accused of SR50, but I don't even know what that is. I have heard of it so many times, but never had it explained to me.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 04, 2009, 02:21:33 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "Wartorn"
Quote from: "Mobius"
As far as I have tried, MOST straferunning hunters outrun my sjas ;[
However, considering most hunters don't even use SR50/a variant there-of, it's pretty easy to mop up the floor :p

I've been accused of SR50, but I don't even know what that is. I have heard of it so many times, but never had it explained to me.
SR50 is when you run forwards, move left (or right), strafe, and turn left (or right) all at the same time. Here is one bind (http://skulltag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=21327) for 3-button SR50. Spread the word!
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Possesed on December 04, 2009, 07:46:04 AM
i just use straferun to dodge around berserkly when needed.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 04, 2009, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
Quote from: "Frits"
Why are sjas's so fast, i got out runned as a sr50-ing hunter. nonononono
Yesyesyesyesyes. If The hunter was faster than Sjas, then Sjas would never be able to catch up to him. And besides, if you're good at the game, you'll have a fair chance of beating Sjas if you stay back and fight. What is it with you and the Hunter anyway, you always want him to be the most broken class in the game...

Late response, but... Sjas is supposed to outsmart the Human not outrun him.
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2009, 09:46:32 AM
.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 11:02:56 AM
holly traps are useless against jitters and i still think santa is a bit g...
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 11:04:53 AM
Okay I'm planning a new GVH:CD version for Monday. The only changes are the ones I listed on the previous page along with some minor tweaks. Rant and rave about it some more in case I missed something.
Quote from: "Frits"
holly traps are useless against jitters

Nuh uh! They still walk over them and get hurt like any class if they jitter past them...














... Don't they?  :-|
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 11:42:43 AM
I wanted to test how much damage they would do as a jitter but unless i used altfire movement i was unsuccessful in getting hit.
Sjas's still get a boost from flying down(or is there no noland in oblaczek or whatever it's called, it also needs cd!)
And is the jitter radius really nerfed? I'm still getting killed even if they completely missed me.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 12:47:59 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
I wanted to test how much damage they would do as a jitter but unless i used altfire movement i was unsuccessful in getting hit.

Damn, I guess it's too fast for the engine to catch him.

Quote from: "Frits"
Sjas's still get a boost from flying down(or is there no noland in oblaczek or whatever it's called, it also needs cd!)

The owner PM'd me earlier saying he's on the case. That server should have compat_noland on.

Quote from: "Frits"
And is the jitter radius really nerfed? I'm still getting killed even if they completely missed me.

Indeed. The lag may be deceiving you  ;)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: dark-slayer-201 on December 04, 2009, 12:58:22 PM
I may want to do a touch up of GVH31.
All I want to do is remove some of the laggy decorations, make the statue have no translucency, add the outside area, but with snow that also falls from the sky (client side only). Also falling snow inside only where the windows in the ceiling are and fix up as many seams as I can in the textures.

It may take a while because I am moving house right now, and my computer doesn't have a graphics card for now because it was faulty. So I will have to use my laptop which laggs on that map in DoomBuilder2

Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Quote from: "Frits"
And is the jitter radius really nerfed? I'm still getting killed even if they completely missed me.
Indeed. The lag may be deceiving you  ;)
Could you test with the jitter's projectile (as so it is) as client side?
And possible other projectiles and weapons?
Even if you think it won't work, you could just try.
Who knows, you may be able to make gvh have unlagged/zero-ping weapons.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 01:58:17 PM
Clientside stuff won't hurt anyone because the server won't know about them. You can have a crack at the map if you like. I already removed a few blocks and candle thingies, let me know if you want that version as a base.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 04, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Be light with the snow, though. Remember what happened to the boat map.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
I wanted to test how much damage they would do as a jitter but unless i used altfire movement i was unsuccessful in getting hit.
Sjas's still get a boost from flying down(or is there no noland in oblaczek or whatever it's called, it also needs cd!)
And is the jitter radius really nerfed? I'm still getting killed even if they completely missed me.

It's obleck's shitty server. I have noland on SKILL and there is no boost.

I need someone to go marine and Hunter to try out how fast Sjas is with only moving forward from one part of a map to another. Anyone game'd? I want to try this boost from up/down spam also, just to make sure I am not talking out of ignorance (like I always do).
Title: .
Post by: Anonymous on December 04, 2009, 03:42:25 PM
.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 03:44:31 PM
Santa can't switch weapons on oblecks(?), thought i should mention this.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 03:45:47 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
Santa can't switch weapons on oblecks(?), thought i should mention this.

I called it a shitty server for a reason now. He probably didn't upload warclasses before CD, which is a mistake I made too before.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 03:49:16 PM
Has he put the WAD order on wrong? Right now if EW goes after CD it will cock up. Can't be fixed until I update EW.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 03:50:05 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "Frits"
Santa can't switch weapons on oblecks(?), thought i should mention this.

I called it a shitty server for a reason now. He probably didn't upload warclasses before CD, which is a mistake I made too before.

I only like it more than yours because of the ping :)

Forgot to mention, the hunter and the marine sometimes slow down after you've fired an arrow or held down a grenade and threw it. firing/throwing again fixes this but your uber slow untill you do that.

edit: it isn't lag, jitter radius is still huge.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 03:57:28 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "Frits"
Santa can't switch weapons on oblecks(?), thought i should mention this.

I called it a shitty server for a reason now. He probably didn't upload warclasses before CD, which is a mistake I made too before.

I only like it more than yours because of the ping :)

Forgot to mention, the hunter and the marine sometimes slow down after you've fired an arrow or held down a grenade and threw it. firing/throwing again fixes this but your uber slow untill you do that.

edit: it isn't lag, jitter radius is still huge.

The ping in Obeleck is worst than mine in most cases (and not because I am server admin, but because I watch other people's ping from the server scoreboard).

I even join my own server from my netbook on another connection, and Obeleck still sucks.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 03:59:55 PM
why do you live in the us and a? Your server would be the best if it was European.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 04:07:46 PM
Well stop being a fuckin` limy Brit and move to AMERICA! You and your BBC news. That isn't American.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 04:08:07 PM
Mobius move to europe. For GVH. It's worth it!  :twisted:
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 04:12:06 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Mobius move to europe. For GVH. It's worth it!  :twisted:

I'd be the best dedicated host for gvh. I might as well become the official server if I did move out there.

Can I have my own complimentary cockney accent?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 04, 2009, 04:14:42 PM
Ya sure can govnah
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 04:19:23 PM
I'm not a brit, I'm belgian. We're the boss of europe now you know.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 04:41:40 PM
(click to show/hide)

Ah! My favorite PDW is Belgian. Nice.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 04, 2009, 05:34:53 PM
Hrm. That image gives me a Permission Denied error.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 04, 2009, 05:36:27 PM
p90 ftw, good weapon for a new class :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2009, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: "Qent"
Permission denied

http://images.google.com/images?q=FN%20 ... =en&tab=wi (http://images.google.com/images?q=FN%20p90&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi)

^ This

Quote from: "Frits"
p90 ftw, good weapon for a new class :P

It was in Voltlock's realguns but now it isn't compatible with 98A. ;[

Something about a line ending with , instead of ; which I am guessing that somehow 98A gives a shit about C now instead of before.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 04, 2009, 06:44:38 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Mobius move to europe. For GVH. It's worth it!  :twisted:

Le Gasp! All this time GvH was just a clever ploy by Cutty to convince people to move to Europe.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 04, 2009, 09:41:11 PM
Europe is a great place, hehe...
And he is hell bent on nerfing all ghouls and buffing humans to extreme lenghts like usual. :P

Hmm... Cant think of much else when it comes to ajustments to balance. For now i'll enjoy the fact that Oblacek has hosted the wads in the wrong order and Santa's are prime targets for rape with a mere snow shooting gun. Ah well, atleast got my ping back that gives me my full skill. Jitterskull really sucks with bad ping, no wonder why the bots (aside their autoaiming) work so effeciently. :P

Hope Frostbite's new attack wont suck as much, if your unsure, you could always let people test it beforehand?

Edit: I REMEMBER! Something REALLY annoying, you know the teleporters in GVH30? You know how people like to abuse teleporters, they hide behind them, being defended frontally from melee attacks, and most ghoul attacks are kinda crappy range wise. And not always (especially in this state) does the ghoul team have a Frostbite handy.
So, perhaps make it so you cant get behind the teleporter? Perhaps not next to it either, just plain forward in order to get in and out. And this kinda should happen for every teleporter, if possible.

Teleporter camping has been like, the most unfair death for many ghouls, a single human could defeat an entire ghoul team with that abuse, there really is no tactic against that, especially if they spawn there first.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Knux on December 04, 2009, 10:33:48 PM
I found some bugs:

Creeper: saw it while my bro was using it. He waited until the curse balls were about to recharge while having one, he shoots it at the same time it recharges and gains all 3 curse balls again. And it's not a random glitch, either. He pulled it off with success a couple of times while I was watching.

Jitterskull: happened while playing online. I charge at a human, then look to the right/left before getting to him (in the middle of the charge attack). I frag him and Jitterskull's cool down does not occur. I try it again, same thing happened. Deadly glitch in wrong hands, as you can just get ready to escape after fragging, or go to town...  :shock:

EDIT: Aside from this, I think it would be funny to see Jitterskull charge with his mouth closed while cooling down, and it should sound like when he charges but with mouth full sounds, causing no damage but pushing players away for escape.  :lol:
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 05, 2009, 12:41:58 AM
Quote from: "Ivory"
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Mobius move to europe. For GVH. It's worth it!  :twisted:

Le Gasp! All this time GvH was just a clever ploy by Cutty to convince people to move to Europe.
So does that mean Touhou is all a clever plot by ZUN to make us move to Gensokyo? Because I'd totally do it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 05, 2009, 08:37:35 AM
Just came from mobius server and again i got Fragged by a totally off jitter.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 05, 2009, 03:20:17 PM
As jitter starts charging im sure he already starts causing damage. A jitterskull only has to look at its target or in rare few cases be near it, meh, the attack doesnt always feel like hitting. Suppose you got unlucky, but he's fine, hit him while he's having lunch or after he missed, thats what all people try. Or the Jitterskull you fought was a pro, perhaps. :P

Most Jitterskulls on the field these days are nothing but experienced users or pro's, most people seem to avoid using Jitterskull. I wonder why.
Kinda offtopic but you rarely mention anything about any ghoul but Jitterskull, he already had his nerf, i dont see the problem?

Oh, and Cutman, dont forget to edit GVH30's teleporters, its more of an abuse then a flaw, but this abuse is one that is nearly (well, i give it 5% chance) impossible to counter.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 05, 2009, 03:37:28 PM
he missed me by a mile and i still died, if it was a little i could live with it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 05, 2009, 05:45:14 PM
Hmm... Must be really unlucky, i'm guessing they do damage at every moment during their attack and it just looked like he was way off yet somehow touched you.

Ah well, besides that, i hear Frostbite needs more speed since now he's just target practise for marines. If you'd give him in total: more movement speed, an easier to use crunch attack, and as you suggested (i think) faster ice breath, he's probaly fine.
Some also say he needs more HP but perhaps its easier to take things by small steps. Especially when it comes to manipulating damage output of an weapon *cough* hunter *cough*. :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 05, 2009, 06:43:43 PM
I know this is off topic, but: I've found a way to do something that makes the Creeper being too silent a lot less unfair.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Anonymous on December 05, 2009, 06:48:03 PM
Jitters do damage as long as they started charging... he can kill you while he's charging. He will end up far from you but that's earlier that he damaged you. Jitter doesnt hurt once he stopped attacking, it's during the whole charging that he can hurt.

Anyway Jitter has already been nerfed... it would be annoying if he was made weaker again... a decent sjas can be way more lethal than a jitter... stop picking on Skully :(
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 05, 2009, 07:03:09 PM
He missed me and still killed me, that's what annoying me. Somebody unbiased should test his range.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 05, 2009, 07:05:56 PM
Quote from: "carthief"
teleporter in gvh30

Stop being so obvious than. When I see a human camp at one teleport as a sjas, I either go where they are at and taunt spam or teleport scream. I welcome a human being stupid enough to be behind me in such a confined area (as the small room where the teleporter is located is very small) when I scream my 360 degree attack.

If all else fails, camp too. One of you two are bond to be bored.

I call bullshit on wiping out a whole ghoul team in gvh30 btw, with that tactic alone at least.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 07, 2009, 04:11:06 PM
I'm still a bit unsatisfied with santa, whenever i play him i always go trough my weapons and think useless,totally useless and what the hell. He needs a lot of changes or maby...

edit: Santa died in aztec, too fat to jump up where there should be a stair.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 07, 2009, 04:21:29 PM
His jump height is exactly the same. Even frostbite can jump it with his screwed up jump.  :p
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Arctic on December 08, 2009, 12:48:44 AM
It would be really awesome if Creeper could have his voice fixed, by the way. :p
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 08, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
What needs fixing? I haven't touched his volume and I can hear him just fine.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 08, 2009, 10:24:03 AM
sometimes he goes silent(to other people), i think it's the same issue with sjas as well, you hear them really late if they are coming towards you, but once you're hearing them you can keep hearing them from a distance. If they move out of your range again and come towards you again it repeats itself.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 08, 2009, 10:47:14 AM
Hey, Arctic. I got a solution for you (PM 4 moar info).

P.S: Cutman, you should test that in 2b3 in 97dBeta5 and the current beta in 98A and you will hear the difference, I promise.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 08, 2009, 11:32:07 AM
I know, but I don't think there's much I can do about it. Sounds like a skulltag issue. I *think* I can extend the radius of the sounds in SNDINFO. Would that help?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 08, 2009, 03:16:36 PM
Hmm... Maybe the Creeper sound got a bit more random. Its either normally hearable or softer then usual. Of course he'll still be easily heard if he makes a extra whisper sound by landing from high heights.

While the subject is sound, the new ST kinda... blocks out some sound when there's too much sound occuring at the same time, such as rapidly scrolling in the main menu, for example. Maybe thats a potential cause of the problem? In-game sounds may also be blocked out at times, even if a sjas screamed someone to death. Also happens often with the riotgun if it killed the last opponent.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 08, 2009, 04:09:34 PM
This needs to be reported on the ST bugs forum. I don't think I've seen this happen yet.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Arctic on December 09, 2009, 12:50:56 AM
Quote
I know, but I don't think there's much I can do about it. Sounds like a skulltag issue. I *think* I can extend the radius of the sounds in SNDINFO. Would that help?

Hmm, perhaps, but the only thing that's -really- bothering me (as well as others) is that you hear Creepers coming from all around you regardless of position. Him having a tad softer voice isn't that bad. Though, most of the times I get a surprise kill from a Creeper that doesn't make any sounds at all.

Quote
While the subject is sound, the new ST kinda... blocks out some sound when there's too much sound occuring at the same time

Yes! I even have silent Jitterskulls flying at me some times, then killing me without the gib sound. :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 09, 2009, 02:42:18 PM
Hmm... Never had that happen with Jitterskull. :P
Guess it happens to more people, altrough other then creeper whispers and the occasional silent finishing blow i couldnt notice anything else worth mentioning.

I guess it would be nice to be able to hear with surround sound where the creeper is, if that's not done yet, just like human footsteps. :P
And in case it is supposed to work like that, ST might have glitched it up or ST doesnt like certain computers and/or its components.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: TERRORsphere on December 09, 2009, 07:05:18 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
I guess it would be nice to be able to hear with surround sound where the creeper is.
That's bad. Because with headphones, in GF3 I can kill a Sjas with my eyes closed. If I can do that. I just throw a grenade at where I hear the creeper and I get a cheap kill. I would even be able to hear them through walls thus removing their stealth.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Robjoe on December 09, 2009, 08:17:11 PM
I dunno if I already suggested this, but Frostbite should freeze humans and monster Hexen-style with his frost breath.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Captain Ventris on December 09, 2009, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
I dunno if I already suggested this, but Frostbite should freeze humans and monster Hexen-style with his frost breath.
I believe there was a problem in the past with frozen player corpses causing crashes upon shattering, thus the ice arrows don't freeze things.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 10, 2009, 12:54:01 AM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "CarThief"
I guess it would be nice to be able to hear with surround sound where the creeper is.
That's bad. Because with headphones, in GF3 I can kill a Sjas with my eyes closed. If I can do that. I just throw a grenade at where I hear the creeper and I get a cheap kill. I would even be able to hear them through walls thus removing their stealth.

I would love for you to try and hit me blindfolded :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Arctic on December 10, 2009, 01:30:59 AM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "CarThief"
I guess it would be nice to be able to hear with surround sound where the creeper is.
That's bad. Because with headphones, in GF3 I can kill a Sjas with my eyes closed. If I can do that. I just throw a grenade at where I hear the creeper and I get a cheap kill. I would even be able to hear them through walls thus removing their stealth.

Creeper used to have this before anyway.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 10, 2009, 02:13:51 AM
Quote from: "Arctic"
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "CarThief"
I guess it would be nice to be able to hear with surround sound where the creeper is.
That's bad. Because with headphones, in GF3 I can kill a Sjas with my eyes closed. If I can do that. I just throw a grenade at where I hear the creeper and I get a cheap kill. I would even be able to hear them through walls thus removing their stealth.

Creeper used to have this before anyway.

I said that once, and everyone called me a liar.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Arctic on December 10, 2009, 02:25:22 AM
Quote
I said that once, and everyone called me a liar.

Oh, well it's true! He really had. I could track them much easier back then; now it's more like a game of hot and cold to find the buggers.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 10, 2009, 07:00:46 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"

I said that once, and everyone called me a liar.

Yes! I used to be able to hear the creeper sneaking up on me, now if you don't see him closing in on you you're dead.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 10, 2009, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: "Frits"
Yes! I used to be able to hear the creeper sneaking up on me, now if you don't see him closing in on you you're dead.

That's what I'm talking about the whole fucking time.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 11, 2009, 06:33:57 PM
Quote from: "ThaMarine"
Quote from: "Frits"
Yes! I used to be able to hear the creeper sneaking up on me, now if you don't see him closing in on you you're dead.

That's what I'm talking about the whole fucking time.


:x Don't have a cow man!
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Grymmoire on December 12, 2009, 01:18:27 AM
I've heard lots of complaining about GVH30, what do you plan to do with that map?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 12, 2009, 01:26:58 AM
I've removed a lot of the obstacles blocking the way of humans. Not sure if that'll help but it's the best I can do without flattening the map out too much.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 12, 2009, 04:47:18 AM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
I've removed a lot of the obstacles blocking the way of humans. Not sure if that'll help but it's the best I can do without flattening the map out too much.

It's generally the best and only thing to do. It's a lovely map for a finisher to the rotation.

So what is up with gvh27 anyway? I removed it from my Map rotation on SKILL because of all the, "render," lag.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 12, 2009, 07:53:25 AM
Rain on the boat is god awful.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 12, 2009, 08:56:03 AM
GVH27 is the cargo ship? I love the sounds on that one. :P
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 13, 2009, 05:03:29 PM
http://cutstuff.net/blog/?p=1782 (http://cutstuff.net/blog/?p=1782)

ere ya go. Forstbite may not suck as much now.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: White on December 13, 2009, 05:22:45 PM
Rofl. Forst Bite.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: dark-slayer-201 on December 13, 2009, 05:38:31 PM
good work.
I see you have removed the snow, and changed the 6 random teleport destinations to 2.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 13, 2009, 06:27:17 PM
nooooooooooooo, gvh29 was perfect as it was, you ruined it :(
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 14, 2009, 02:09:40 AM
Quote from: "Frits"
nooooooooooooo, gvh29 was perfect as it was, you ruined it :(

No more choke fun ;[

Gvh27 still lags a little
Gvh30 is huge, but I love it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Zocker on December 14, 2009, 08:02:28 PM
So you are going to make Humans stronger and Ghouls weaker with each new verision?

And about the new maps, less is more...
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Minus on December 14, 2009, 09:43:20 PM
I want another campaign, in the next beta, you should make it so you can play offline like the first two. That's not too hard is it?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 14, 2009, 11:57:57 PM
Quote from: "Zocker"
So you are going to make Humans stronger and Ghouls weaker with each new verision?

And about the new maps, less is more...

That is wrong with a full list of 30 maps?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 15, 2009, 12:52:55 AM
Quote from: "Zocker"
So you are going to make Humans stronger and Ghouls weaker with each new verision?

Weaker? Frost Bite has never been better!
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 16, 2009, 07:25:45 PM
I FOUND A PROBLEM IN GVH22!

I couldn't believe I found this so late in the release. Apparently a creeper can get stuck under the feet of a Baron of Hell Statue when you try to move around the area on the base of the podium.

I got stuck and couldn't move. I was literally spell-bounded until a Cyborg blasted me in the face. I think the same happens at the Demon statue too, but not as severe.

Imp statue gives me no problem.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 18, 2009, 01:25:21 AM
Quote from: "Frits"
nooooooooooooo, gvh29 was perfect as it was, you ruined it :(

Make up your minds, damn it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 18, 2009, 01:41:22 AM
Quote from: "Mik57"
Quote from: "Frits"
nooooooooooooo, gvh29 was perfect as it was, you ruined it :(

Make up your minds, damn it.

Cover =! ground obstructions

Now chokes can't get around and the bowl is a death pit for them ;[
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 18, 2009, 06:30:59 AM
yes yes, reverse back to the original one. It was supAr fun to play.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 18, 2009, 06:47:49 AM
Quote from: "Frits"
yes yes, reverse back to the original one. It was supAr fun to play.

Or at the very least, removing the obstructions at the bowl. Humans still have the wide area around the outside to nail every ghoul under the sun, the least ghouls can do is get speed in it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Blox on December 18, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
Well, everything's pretty fine. "Nice work Mike/Cutman/CutmanMike !"
And look what I found! :P (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/121848)
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: TERRORsphere on December 18, 2009, 11:49:59 AM
Look what I found 8D

Code: [Select]
The following featured in Ghouls versus Humans was aquired at Newgrounds.com with the following licensing terms.
The tracks have been slightly altered to suit the WAD.

Icee1m5 (GVH24) was remixed by Doomfiend

The song used in GVH25 is called "The Den (Raiders)" by Mark Morgan
Permission Granted

Music in GVH25 is by Trebor Locke. Title is 'Ice Crystals'
Permission Granted

Music in GVH30 was created by "Grave" and "Sam Woodman".

"Attribution: You must give credit to the artist.

Noncommercial: You may not use this work for commercial purposes unless you make specific arrangements with the artist under another license.

Share Alike: If you alter, transform, or build upon this music, you may distribute the resulting creation only under a license identical to this one."

Graveyard. (D_GRAVE in gvh22): Cazok - http://cazok.newgrounds.com/
Oil Drum Alley 2.0 (D_DOCK in gvh23): Beartheshadows - http://beartheshadows.newgrounds.com/

Winterbliss (WINBLISS in gvh26): Mathias R (cycerin) - http://cycerin.newgrounds.com/
The Machine [Wip] (PSTORM in gvh27): Herbanator3 - http://herbanator3.newgrounds.com/
-Strikebeam- (D_STRIKE in gvh29): Waterflame - http://waterflame.newgrounds.com/
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 18, 2009, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: "Blox"
Well, everything's pretty fine. "Nice work Mike/Cutman/CutmanMike !"
And look what I found! :P (http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/121848)

Someone finally found it. I googled two names and nothing came up. Shit.

Reminds me of Caslte of Ghoulstien where the information to Gvh09 wasn't there.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 19, 2009, 01:18:23 AM
Would making the walls around the bowl higher, then removing some of them help with cover? Like, a height of 128 or 96 would work good enough to give real cover.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 19, 2009, 04:40:28 AM
Quote from: "Mik57"
Would making the walls around the bowl higher, then removing some of them help with cover? Like, a height of 128 or 96 would work good enough to give real cover.

The problem with the bowl is a two way street. On one hand, most humans are grounded so they need the speed. With wide open areas, they can mow down any ghoul with ease.

On the other hand, Chokes and Jitters have been dominating this map for quite some time. I am actually amazed that it turned out like that from how it was before CD2.

The camping tower is now worst than before because the height leverage is in range of human marksmen using hitscan to pick off ghouls. I know one can say, "easier for bloodball," but now it's even easier for sniping.

All the terrain around the tower is a nice touch but.. chokes can't get around.

I'm probably being a nitpicking faggot though.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 19, 2009, 05:10:54 PM
Well, that's how maps are perfected. So, I think I'll just get rid of the damn tower, remove the pointless scenery on the lower outside area, and raise the walls around the ring and get rid of a few. There will be obstructions, but they will be cover as well.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 19, 2009, 07:59:21 PM
So you're keeping the walls around the bowl?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 20, 2009, 06:57:10 PM
Not all of them, no. I'm keeping like 4 up, every other wall will be removed, and the existing ones will be raised so they can actually be used as cover.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 21, 2009, 03:21:40 AM
Quote from: "Mik57"
Not all of them, no. I'm keeping like 4 up, every other wall will be removed, and the existing ones will be raised so they can actually be used as cover.

That sounds ideal.

How about the obstructions on the ground level near the heliport?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 21, 2009, 03:38:38 AM
I'm going to remove the stumps and trees, and maybe add a crate or two. Crates can be used as cover, things can't.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 21, 2009, 10:30:59 AM
After some more testing, I can safely say Frost Bite is awesome. The issue people are having with him is that they keep using Frost Bite offensively. I found Frost Bite was deadly force when used as Support and Defense. The key to Frost Bite is to use your Ice Breath to weaken them down while running away, preferably around corners and narrow spaces. Just harass them with breath until their dead. Only using the bite if the opportunity is safe and your sure to make the kill. Despite it all, Frost Bite is still largely situational.

I think Frost Bites, Health, Speed, Attack Radius, Attack Damage, Breath Speed and Damage is all fine. What I really would like to see on Frost Bite is a general damage reduction from all weapons. I think it's fair given Frost Bite lacks the ability to kill fast and is a slow, wide target to hit.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 21, 2009, 10:37:38 AM
^ as wide as any other ghoul.

What about gvh22? That one desperately needs a re-done.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on December 21, 2009, 10:38:51 AM
What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: dark-slayer-201 on December 21, 2009, 10:44:18 AM
I don't think it looks that good for gvh22 to use a rock texture for a sky.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Blox on December 21, 2009, 11:20:42 AM
Off-topic, LOL.
(click to show/hide)

And yes, gvh22 could use a sky-makeover. Because why not just make it fog?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: dark-slayer-201 on December 21, 2009, 12:17:32 PM
the ceiling sky texture from d2dm1 could be used.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 21, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: "Ivory"
The issue people are having with him is that they keep using Frost Bite offensively.

This is the issue I have with the majority of players in GVH.

I will say give him more health to solidify his ability to be more supportive.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 22, 2009, 02:53:36 AM
Hmm... Maybe its just my natural playstyle but i'd prefer if he actually had a usefull melee attack, just like any other ghoul (even creeper's).

I guess people arent used to having a gigantic target as supportive class, as much as he can help out with specific camping situations (if he isnt dead by then).
I guess more health is a option.

Here's a small suggestion as well for his breath. Could it perhaps go trough teleporters? While i highly doubt the other is possible, is it also possible to make it turn into a random direction after teleporting?
I just dont like teleport campers and he'd be a exellent support class in my book by taking out campers that normal ghouls cant get rid of.

Now i'm sure someone probaly is gonna yell at the mere thought of this idea, BUT NO, there isnt always a Sjas around to fix that, or else the distance is too far for it to work out. Ghouls arent the patient type of people, either.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 22, 2009, 08:17:20 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Now i'm sure someone probaly is gonna yell at the mere thought of this idea, BUT NO, there isnt always a Sjas around to fix that, or else the distance is too far for it to work out. Ghouls arent the patient type of people, either.

Don't go in teleports.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: White on December 23, 2009, 01:50:01 AM
CarThief is right.

Quote from: "Mobius"
Don't go in teleports.

Those are the words of a player that doesn't experience both sides of the story.

*sigh*

If your just one ghoul/one human/one team prejudice, it's best not to make judgements or suggest nerfs, seeing as nine-thousand times out of ten (9000/10), the suggestion is horrible and could unbalance gameplay in a certain way.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 23, 2009, 04:16:12 AM
Quote from: "White"
CarThief is right.

Quote from: "Mobius"
Don't go in teleports.

Those are the words of a player that doesn't experience both sides of the story.
You got Mobius mixed up with CarThief.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 23, 2009, 07:01:07 AM
Quote from: "Qent"
Quote from: "White"
CarThief is right.

Quote from: "Mobius"
Don't go in teleports.

Those are the words of a player that doesn't experience both sides of the story.
You got Mobius mixed up with CarThief.

^ I was going to make a post, but Qent beat me to it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: White on December 23, 2009, 09:10:06 AM
I rarely see Mobius play humans.

Don't.

Just Don't.

*sigh*

ALRIGHT PPLZ Let's get the topic right back on fuckin' track.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 23, 2009, 10:32:51 AM
Merely a suggestion to the nearly unbeatable teleporter camping.
Not like i'd see you fix a situation of an entire human team teleport camping and survive, well, who would survive... Or maps plain gotta have no teleporters, they only get abused.
Hmm... No, he doesnt play as ghoul in those cases. Or atleast dont remember him doing so.

Unfortunately, he does play humans, but only when the map ussually is a human map, instead of being a low-ping help for the ghouls. :P
All too predictable in the end people are gonna yell at an perfectly reasonable suggestion what was completely sidetracked by mere subject of teleporter camping.

Just THINK about it, atleast the humans would need an different strategy instead of just waiting in the teleporter room and bailing out to the other one if things get too heated. It shouldnt be that easy for them.
Or someone could also just plain remove the teleporters from all the official GVH maps, too. Not like they need them with some minor modifications.'

Hmm... As for any other feedback... Santa's normal fire seems a little useless compared to his alt fire by now. But i wouldnt recommend making it just as good either. Hmm...

Havent played much of the GVHCD maps in a while, but i do recall GVH30 is kinda crappy by now. Humans plain ignore the original area, and for sake of winning camp in the hallways and not so well looking other new area's.
And any good ghoul ougta know that long hallways without cover or such-like is human paradise.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mik57 on December 23, 2009, 04:32:38 PM
Making the ice breath go through teleporters might be a good idea, or just getting rid of the damn teleporters and connecting the two crypts. It can't be that hard, right?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 24, 2009, 12:59:55 AM
I can't see any reason why it's a bad idea. Keep those annoying cyborgs from camping in front of the teleporter. Besides, there's always ghost traps and holly traps.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 24, 2009, 04:15:58 AM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Unfortunately, he does play humans, but only when the map ussually is a human map,

That's a crock of shit. I play as human in Gvh10 for God's sake. That map is practically ghoul worthy with all the gray and height differences.

In gvh21, I play as a jitter.

Gvh22 I am a creeper or cyborg

gvh30 I alternate between Choke or Marine.

Hell. I play as a choke (which is all the time nowadays) in DARK STATION! Dark freakin` station. It's a marine map. I actually FAVOR being a choke in the old gvh29 (all the open spaces was choke friendly). I play as a marine in Urban Decay as well; although I am sure people find it amusing, I am getting a little tired of people thinking I use meta, ping, camping, spamming, insert excuse because it only convenience them. All ANYONE RECALLS is you play jitter in only jitter maps, and that's a fact.

Don't go in the teleports. It's dead SIMPLE. You hate teleport camping? We all do, because chokes, creepers, sjas, and even Jitters do it too.. and all the time. When I play as ANY of those classes on ANY of those maps, I BARELY go in a teleporter without either braving it or KNOWING no one is on the other side.

Gvh10 teleporter is STILL a creeper camp spot (but with grenade toss and alternative routes, you can bypass that). RARELY do humans ever camp there for the legitimate reason without either being jittered or hugged.

I think it's the map after post-war technologies (the really cramped map with two teleporters) is easy get by with jitters + creepers. Don't go in the teleport. It's that simple!

Gvh21 is a dead solution. DON'T GET IN THE TELEPORT.. EVER. The only time anyone should try it is a jitter, so he can chomp away from it immediately (assuming he still doesn't get blasted).

Gvh22's teleport is a deterrent against human camping because jitters, creepers, and Frostbites infiltrate and flank lazy humans.

gvh30's teleport is absolutely perfect. So what if people can get behind it? The whole map around is a jitter's paradise anyway. You also have to consider that either end is where someone will end up at, so camping behind it isn't really a, "perfect," strategy unless you like being boxed in.

You want suicidal strategies than I am all for it, but an anti-teleport mechanic is unnecessary. Rule of thumb: TELEPORTERS SHOULDN'T BE USED IN THE BEGINNING OF A MATCH! You want to brave it? Like taking shortcuts? Don't complain when a cyborg + Marine had the foresight to see it coming.

A little note* What class I play at a given moment bares no relevancy to this discussion. So if White MUST know! as he only plays human, I alternate depending on teams. I've been favoring the choke a lot recently, but I have been trying to play as a hunter because I got tired of being a marine. So for me to get tired of a class, that would imply I was playing with said class too much.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Frits on December 24, 2009, 09:22:59 AM
I thought gvh22 was a ghoul map? And a very sucky one, some one needs to remove all the debris and graves.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 24, 2009, 05:14:30 PM
Waiting is not an option. Teleporter camping only makes people wait, especially those seeking victory, gvh isnt worth alot without victory and decent ping to me. :P
(Or plain give people the right to votekick those camping for an exessive amount of time. But one votekick leads to drama. Drama leads to another votekick, and it goes on, untill votekick is disabled.)

Besides that, EVERYTHING should have some way to counter it, and there isnt really any way of counting red teleporter camping in Two Sided Techbase, they can camp far enough to avoid sjas screams, if Jitter crunches through it, they go to the door, what is also their target, not that you'd hurt anyone since they're not that stupid to sit infront of the door.
And to make matters worse, the area is completely unaccessable in any other ways then the teleporter or front door, so the humans have a basically undefeatable defence in fair fights. Surely this requires change.

I wonder if you even can think of an solution thats not along of the lines of waiting it out, probaly not. Lets just hope maps get improved by the time EW recieves updates.

Hmm... About GVH22, if the humans camp in the crypts, it greatly increases their chance to win, its the exact situation as in Two Sided Techbase. But besides that, the entrance is REALLY cramped, allowing for say, a cyborg to guard it. Well, in general, inside = human camping zone, outside = ghoul zone. Althrough some humans might last a while at the graves, if they are good at it, with enough space to shoot and run.

I'd say the inside crypt area could use some widening up and alternative ways of entering.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 24, 2009, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: "Carthief"
Waiting is not an option. Teleporter camping only makes people wait, especially those seeking victory, gvh isnt worth alot without victory and decent ping to me. :P

Then don't say anything when you take a shortcut at the wrong time.

Quote from: "Carthief"
EVERYTHING should have some way to counter it, and there isnt really any way of counting red teleporter camping in Two Sided Techbase

A counter is already there. Two Sided Techbase favors Frostbites, Creepers, and Jitters (or chokes, if you try hard enough). Here is the same solution as before, "don't go in the teleport."

Quote from: "Carthief"
And to make matters worse, the area is completely unaccessable in any other ways then the teleporter or front door, so the humans have a basically undefeatable defence in fair fights. Surely this requires change.

I would agree with you to a certain extent if I haven't seen Ghouls win in this map WAY too many times.

Quote from: "Carthief"
I wonder if you even can think of an solution thats not along of the lines of waiting it out, probaly not. Lets just hope maps get improved by the time EW recieves updates.

Waiting it out is a legitimate strategy for those that are outnumbered or out-gunned.. a situation I always find myself in. You don't know how to be patience for 40 seconds than that's no anyone else's problem but yours. We don't need a timer.

Quote from: "Carthief"
Hmm... About GVH22, if the humans camp in the crypts, it greatly increases their chance to win, its the exact situation as in Two Sided Techbase. But besides that, the entrance is REALLY cramped, allowing for say, a cyborg to guard it.

Yet I always see humans getting raped for being in there too long. I love how the map swings either way depending on how the humans camp.

The map is fine minus the statues. Creeprs can get stuck beneath the Baron's leg.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: White on December 24, 2009, 09:51:15 PM
Welp.



Deal w/ it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: TERRORsphere on December 24, 2009, 10:17:46 PM
I disagree with everything White just said.

The classes are fine. It's just the more players there are in the game, the more chance of ghouls winning.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 24, 2009, 11:03:49 PM
Quote from: "white"
Not even a smart response.

So you rather take a shortcut during the beginning of a match when humans are chucking EVERYTHING in front of them? Yes! Because it's a smart idea to throw yourself in a grenade-infested battle ground amidst a giant war. YOU'RE SO CLEVER!

Quote from: "White"
It favors all the fucking ghouls because the god-damn map is crowded.
CAMPING IS HOW THE HUMANS WIN IN THAT MAP.

It's that, or never stop wandering around.

I think who you meant to rebuke is Carthief, because he is in favor of an anti-camp/anti-teleport camp deterrent.

Also Sjas in that map stink.

Quote from: "White"
I would agree with you to a certain extent if I haven't seen Ghouls win in this map, or many others WAY too many times. What REALLY needs fixing is the classes right now, maps should come second in the order of change. Maps are only currently favoring certain classes, which is a horrible trait for any class based modification to have.

You're asking for an impossibility. Unless you want someone to make one map and rotate that same map 30 times, you are going to have a slant. What's the best example of a slant? Claw Fist, Urban Decay, Solaid, The Other Side, and AEONS favor Jitters specifically. The only reason why I brought that narrow example wasn't to attack jitters, but because slants occur (Aztech, Dark Station, That one Temple map, and Gvh25 favor humans).

Carthief and I saw how you feel about a class balance. What was it that happened in your wad? Oh yes, Jitter range chomp got reduced in halve, reduction of HP during the attack, more chances of push instead of damage, Cyborgs having a large amount of plasma + Fuel, Hunters getting an invincibility magic buff, Hunters getting a Lightning Storm spell, Sjas getting their attack radius and power reduced, and marines getting an anti-tank and anti-air hitscan weapons with spread.

Yes, that's balance.[/sarcasm] Your post will be a lot more effective in the future if you weren't projecting your position onto others.

Quote from: "White"
We shouldn't have a timer, but that's the response I respect from a person who, once again, only stays on one side of the story...

What's the other side of the story then? Feel free to elaborate.

Quote from: "White"
That map sucks balls with all of the obstacles and crowded rooms, along with things humans can trip over and fall down on.

I somewhat disagree only because the cramp spaces doesn't really help the ghouls either save for Jitters, sjas, and creepers. You have a good cyborg or a decent team going and ghouls are practically the ones staying inside.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: White on December 24, 2009, 11:35:29 PM
What?

Ok, uhh... Whatever.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 25, 2009, 12:54:12 AM
Quote from: "White"
It actually IS. While the rest of the people are going at it with one another, you may be able to sneak past without having about at most, 3 players to at least 1 player trying to nuke you.

That's only situational, which is what most of the anti-teleport camping crowd seems to forget.

Quote from: "White"
Way to be an asshole and bring up something totally irrelevant.

Well since the majority of your argument consist of, "you only know one side," or, "he doesn't ever play human," I figured I'd return, in kind, with something more accurate. You don't like that? Well then refrain from doing it. You can slam my creditability with fictitious statements, and I'll low blow you with a wad I've tested.

As far as chilling out or relaxing, you seem to be cursing up a storm here. I advise you cool down for a little while before posting.

Quote from: "White"
Also, I don't know why anybody that only plays ghouls/almost ALWAYS plays ghouls can talk about ghouls being weak and humans being strong. That is a HIGHLY pressured understatement.

I'll refer to Qent's post from the previous page. AGAIN! You seem to be confusing me with someone else.

Quote from: "White"
Is that since when I've seen a winning screen with you on my team, or for that matter - when your a human at all.

English?

Quote from: "White"
Waan! He is talking about my wad!

Few things:

Contradiction isn't necessarily a bad argument, nor am I really being contradictory in the first place. A contradiction, by definition, is an ideal that contrast or opposes another. I do not see the problem here at all if I am providing a legitimate reason why an anti-camp mechanism is unnecessary. You do not like me being fallacious, than I propose you do not bring up what classes I play as in GVH. You want to talk about balance? I brought in your wad with said, "balances," in place. You want to discuss with me about being impartial? You should get on GVH more than you do talk about it.

All you have ever tell me on the game or here is that I play as a ghoul. I'll bet you ten dollars from my Paypal account that anyone can vouch otherwise.

It's pretty funny you'd try to peg me for being Ghoulsided, but Carthief is trying to advocate something, that you are defending, that is mainly GHOULSIDED with ghoulsided arguments. I, opposing this idea, will actually be, "favoring," humans.

I don't know whether or not you're a troll or a retard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM)

^ You remind me of the client.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Wartorn on December 25, 2009, 02:34:25 AM
Shut the fuck up.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CarThief on December 25, 2009, 03:03:34 AM
Well this had a interesting turn of events.

Anyway, i would like to state i rarely use teleporters, and else i'll make sure i do it safely, of course.
Hmm... What else to add... I guess maps require change. Like Two Sided Techbase's red teleporter could use an extra route just like the grey one, so ghouls could storm both sides, every place needs 2 ways of entering and exiting.
It probaly wouldnt guarantee victory for either side, just gives them another doorway to make use of or mess up and die in the attemp. Cyborgs can be painfull in that map, same for ice arrows. :P

In any case, ajusting maps that get abused or adding the teleport thing would surely be good in my view. If anything i can tell how hard it is to defeat a specific human defence, since im at the recieving side.

Hmm... The CD classes probaly dont need any significant changes, maybe the maps do, i'd name any, but i cant think of any.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 25, 2009, 04:27:28 PM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
The classes are fine. It's just the more players there are in the game, the more chance of ghouls winning.
QFT, and also illustrated graphically (http://skulltag.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16809&p=206264#p206264) by Rific453 almost a year ago.

Quote from: "CarThief"
Two Sided Techbase's red teleporter could use an extra route just like the grey one, so ghouls could storm both sides, every place needs 2 ways of entering and exiting.
Also QFT, although I've been sucked by creepers in that room enough times to know it's not completely invincible.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 25, 2009, 09:11:29 PM
That graph is a year old, Qent. C'mon, we had like 2 version releases in that time-span.

I hate Two-Sided Tech Base anyway.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 26, 2009, 05:50:48 AM
That graph is still relevant to GvH and it always will be. It is the result of giving one team weak ranged weapons and the other team strong melee attacks.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 26, 2009, 10:19:55 PM
Quote from: "Qent"
That graph is still relevant to GvH and it always will be. It is the result of giving one team weak ranged weapons and the other team strong melee attacks.


Somehow maps aren't factored in this equation, right?
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Qent on December 26, 2009, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Somehow maps aren't factored in this equation, right?
I would expect that Ghoul maps make the Ghouls' graph steeper and Human maps make the Humans' graph steeper.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Grymmoire on December 27, 2009, 07:51:45 PM
Regardless of team balance,
I have a couple things to say...

GVH28, lots of people complain that this map is way too huge and I have never had a chance to play it online because people constantly do changemap on the map rightp before it over to GVH29, which is the only map I ever play online. I haven't layed GVH online and not played GVH29 once since this was released. Now it's a good map, I recognize that, but there are other good maps as well. GVH28 may not look like it was hard to make, but in reality I had to resize it multiple times, which required me to do an edit for almost every square meter of the map every time. So in response to the lack of people even including that map in the rotation, I'm going to pick it up off my folder, dust i off,a dnt then cut it in half, and fix the open part. The result will be a much smaller version of GVH28. Now the public: should I redo GVH28 for a smaller size?

I really hope you are gonna release like 1 more version of CD at least with my map update in it...

Also Frostbite, a lot better in version 2, also still the weakest ghoul. Could it be his damage? No. His speed? No. It's his "armor". 120 heath may seem like a lot, but when you take into account that Frostbite take twice the damage of every shot for some odd unexplainable reason, then he becomes a walking target. Something about his damage resistance is a little off with that guy.

Could there also be some kind of list, not in game (but in a text file) listing the various achievements and how to get them. When I get some random achievement I'd like to at least know what in the world I did to get it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 27, 2009, 11:19:52 PM
Damage, there is nothing wrong with gvh28. The issue is that the majority of players are impatient or want gvh11, gvh21, or gvh02.. cramped maps that forces quick fights anyway. People that select gvh29 just want a wide human map.

I'll disable vote map on my server as I find myself doing map changes after a vote is passed to combat this faggotry.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Ivory on December 28, 2009, 03:36:58 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
I'll disable vote map on my server as I find myself doing map changes after a vote is passed to combat this faggotry.

Thank you! I'm getting pretty annoyed at people continually changing the map all the time. I almost never seen the original GvH Maps on your server because of it.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 28, 2009, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: "Ivory"
Thank you! I'm getting pretty annoyed at people continually changing the map all the time. I almost never seen the original GvH Maps on your server because of it.

Done! The only reason why I had it enabled is for my sake. I am too lazy to switch to my rcon, from in game, to change a map. I suppose I'll have to do without, and I barely ever change a map anyway.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Grymmoire on December 28, 2009, 02:29:33 PM
Well, that's a relief, at least now I don't have to redo like half the map. Maybe sometime soon I can actually catch it and see how it plays online.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Mobius on December 28, 2009, 02:36:36 PM
Quote from: "Damage"
Well, that's a relief, at least now I don't have to redo like half the map. Maybe sometime soon I can actually catch it and see how it plays online.

It is one of my favorite maps, and I am not just saying that either. I don't say things out of gist like this.

Gvh29 was one of my favorites too, but now.. eh.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: ThaMarine on December 31, 2009, 08:38:15 PM
Lil' bit 'o feedback:

GvH30 should:

- either be renamed to Human Slaughterhouse

- or either should be radically changed. Maps usally don't lag on my PC (despite I got Pentium 4), but I get 7-10 FPS on this map. There's too much various decoration and way too many dynamic lights. I tried both disabling dynamic lights and disabling textures, but it still lags like hell. The map is dominated by Sjases and Jitterskulls, because there are too may obstackles they don't have to cross over and the passages are way too tight. I try to get out of the "danger" zone, but I soon get buttraped by a Jitter or a Sjas who doesn't have to jump over a zilliion of benches, steps, torches and various other shit.

The spawns are too close, so I suggest the Human spawns should be moved to the woods.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Knux on January 14, 2010, 07:34:36 PM
I've no idea if anyone reported this, but when a Santa dies, the holly traps left behind cause damage to other human players should they run over them. I confirmed it yesterday while following a teammate using the Ghostbuster after I died as Santa and left traps. This must be fixed ASAP.

A suitable solution would be to have the traps disappear with the dead Santa.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: CutmanMike on January 14, 2010, 09:12:55 PM
Almost true. The Ghostbuster will always walk over and be hurt by them. This will be fixed in the update.
Title: Re: GVH:Cold Demise feedback
Post by: Free Hugs! on January 15, 2010, 07:39:40 PM
The next update reveals that the Ghostbuster has been a ghoul the whole time, and this is clever foreshadowing.
As it is, I die so quickly when playing as a human that I sometimes go as Santa just so I can indirectly benefit my team after dying.  I'm not a very good player?