Cutstuff Forum

Gaming => The Ghoul's Forest => Topic started by: CutmanMike on January 15, 2010, 10:48:48 PM

Title: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 15, 2010, 10:48:48 PM
http://cutstuff.net/blog/?p=1834 (http://cutstuff.net/blog/?p=1834)

Check it out, lots of stuff to try. RIP expansion files!

Feedback as usual  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on January 16, 2010, 01:23:14 AM
I love it. Just a few thoughts though.
Ghost Buster:
Could you possibly make it so the Ghost Buster can switch back to regular plasma? Try fighting a jitter with the blood upgrade. Highly Unlikely for Survival.

As for the Bone Shard Launcher, The location it hit should have some shatter bone debris. Just for the looks.

Frost Bite: Ice Armor makes all the difference now. He's never been better. However, visually having the Mega Armor looks dreadfully silly for Frost Bite. Perhaps an ice shard or something to replace the armor's icon.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 16, 2010, 01:33:59 AM
All good ideas. I never noticed the mega armor thing though because I use the GVH hud. Doh!
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on January 16, 2010, 02:27:54 AM
I'm not as sure about this one but I keep forgetting to mention it.
The Marine's grenades explode after a few bounces. Less when you cook the nade. However the problem with this is that Slopes pretty much blow them up on contact. I was going to suggest trying the Marine's grenade being timed instead. The basic nade toss (not holding down alt fire) could be timed to approximately throwing the nade and letting it bounce on a flat surface. Then using inheritance to make the nade have less duration and more speed. As it is currently with the bounces.

Advantages:
- Being able to bounce those silly things off slopes easier.
- Easier time throwing them around corners
- No more throwing grenades only to have them blow up after what only looks like the first bounce
- Able to have them blow up mid air.
- Rolling Grenades down Creeper Holes

Disadvantages:
- Now that it's timed. Marines will be unable to use bounces to blow them up quicker.
- Due to the above, it may make it harder to hit the ghouls.
- No more lobbing grenades across maps and still having them bounce and explode.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 16, 2010, 02:42:04 AM
Grenades don't actually cook at all. They bounce twice and die no matter what, unless they're suspended in the air too long. I don't plan on changing this, it wouldn't make them as useful (i.e when a creeper is about to nipple your shins off)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Robjoe on January 16, 2010, 07:40:33 AM
Awesome. Purely awesome. However, I do have some suggestions/bug reports to make:

-The Marine holding a grenade for too long is actually really deadly to the Ghouls. I say it should be an instant kill attack if you manage to actually hit a Ghoul with that, making it like a suicide-bomb attack (Except it doesn't really kill the Marine in one hit, just fatally wounds him). I also say "Unloaded" should be replaced with an achievement for killing a Ghoul with an over-held grenade.

-While the Hunter already has 3 achievements, I say "Fire Mastery" should be replaced with a "Kill 5 Ghouls" achievement, and "Ice Mastery" should be replaced with an achievement for killing two or three Ghouls with the Normal Arrows. I say "Lightning Mastery" should stay, since that deserves to be an achievement.

-The Ghostbuster should have a system of weaknesses (Sort of like Megaman), where one weapon is stronger to a certain class, and have the standard one being the all-around gun.

-The Ghostbuster's traps should change depending on what weapon you currently have for your proton pack. I dunno if this would be possible, plausible, or really efficient or worth the trouble of putting it in. The traps would be something like:
Sjas - Something similar to his scream, being a sudden burst of damage, or a bouncing reflective scream (So you could possibly bounce some Frost Breath, a Blood Ball, or a Stun Ball away =P).
Creeper - One trap basically stuns a Ghoul like one of the Creeper's Stun Balls.
Jitter - Something like a fountain of bone shards or a burst that damages Ghouls and pushes them back.
Choke - An explosion of blood or something.
Frostbite - The trap explodes, and frost breath is sent in eight directions.

-The Ghostbuster's Soul Plasma attack should do splash damage, since it's marginally worthless right now. Either that, or it should leech health from Ghouls when it hits directly, maybe about 5 HP per projectile. Perhaps those two things, or it should slow a Ghoul down when they are hit by it, but not completely stop them.

-The Ghostbuster's Blood Spread attack should be less melee based, and have a longer reach (As Ivory said), or do a lot more damage to make it worth getting up in the Ghouls' faces. It should also make you run at Choke's speed until you get rid of the Blood Spread.

-The Ghostbuster's Ice Fountain attack should have a slight bit more ice rain per shot, but not too much, just so you stand more of a chance against Jitter or Sjas when you have it equipped.

-The Ghostbuster achievement "Who Ya' Gonna Call?" should be rewarded to all Ghostbuster players when 10 Ghouls are killed by Ghostbusters. If possible, the kills should also carry from round to round, since there's usually never going to be more than 10 Ghouls at once, and no one hardly ever plays on TDM (Which is actually quite fun).

-The Ghostbuster should have unique obituaries depending on what weapon he has currently equipped.

-Choke should have an obituary for killing someone with the blood-ball-cancel vomit "attack". Just saying, since it seems odd since it says you munched them when you do kill them with the vomit.

-Santa's achievement "Shooting Star" seem a tad finicky. It doesn't seem like you can get it if you kill 3 Ghouls with one star, it seems like it has to be two or more.

-Santa's achievement "Santa's Workshop" does not seem to work at all. I have no idea what the cause is, but when you kill a Ghoul with each of his weapons, it does not trigger.

-Frostbite should be healed and/or have his armor recharged faster if hit by Ice Arrows/Magic. How many shards/spikes hit you determines the values (More hits = More HP).

-Frostbite should also take more damage from Fire Arrows as compensation for the above. It doesn't quite make sense that you can kill an ice monster with ice and fire doesn't do more damage, now does it? :3

-Frostbite's armor regeneration should have about a 1 or 2 second delay after you are hit to start up again. It being instantaneous is hell on a Marine without machine gun ammo.

-The Creeper can get trapped in the map "Project: Strikebeam" (GVH 29) in this spot: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii17 ... 022810.png (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/Robbingjoe/Screenshot_Doom_20100116_022810.png) I think the crates should be moved together so the Creeper can't fall down in there.

-Some of the hints are off, like saying the Hunter still has his teleportation magic, and saying the Ghostbuster only has 4 unique weapons.

Oh, also, a little request, could you list all the technical music names for all the songs (In other words, the "Changemus" commands). Thanks~! :3
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: ThaMarine on January 16, 2010, 11:21:13 AM
I have a suggestion for the map GvH 21 - The Other Side (I hope it's that map).


If someone spawns outside he/she is alot likely to stay there, as there is only one entrance. Both Ghouls and Humans get raped there because it's a really tight passage. My suggestion is: make another passage.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: ThaMarine on January 16, 2010, 11:53:52 AM
I tried the new Ghostbuster. He seems to pwn, I'm worried he might be overpowered. Still, I played only with bots.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Blox on January 16, 2010, 01:24:02 PM
Well, there are two ways to shrink the size a bit more.

Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on January 16, 2010, 02:08:09 PM
The Ghostbuster isn't really overpowered, take the suggestions mentioned above to make him a little more versatile. Right now he's like the Hunter, Marine, and Santa he has a weapon for every situation. Except he has to get kills with the usually weak plasma gun to gain access to them. If he got rewarded for killing a ghoul with a ho-hum weapon, then it defeats the purpose of the whole system. Not to mention the number of times I got killed directly after managing to kill a ghoul and steal his powers. The GB is fine (for now) at where he is now.

Take the above suggestion at what could be done from Robjoe, if they are not impossible. It would make the GB even more useful, and probably still not OP since he has to kill for those new traps and such, although hopefully the improvements aren't too powerful.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: White on January 16, 2010, 04:04:04 PM
Quote from: "Robjoe"
Awesome. Purely awesome.
Perfect.
Quote from: "Robjoe"
However, I do have some suggestions/bug reports to make:

-The Marine holding a grenade for too long is actually really deadly to the Ghouls. I say it should be an instant kill attack if you manage to actually hit a Ghoul with that, making it like a suicide-bomb attack (Except it doesn't really kill the Marine in one hit, just fatally wounds him). I also say "Unloaded" should be replaced with an achievement for killing a Ghoul with an over-held grenade.

-While the Hunter already has 3 achievements, I say "Fire Mastery" should be replaced with a "Kill 5 Ghouls" achievement, and "Ice Mastery" should be replaced with an achievement for killing two or three Ghouls with the Normal Arrows. I say "Lightning Mastery" should stay, since that deserves to be an achievement.

-The Ghostbuster should have a system of weaknesses (Sort of like Megaman), where one weapon is stronger to a certain class, and have the standard one being the all-around gun.

-The Ghostbuster's traps should change depending on what weapon you currently have for your proton pack. I dunno if this would be possible, plausible, or really efficient or worth the trouble of putting it in. The traps would be something like:
Sjas - Something similar to his scream, being a sudden burst of damage, or a bouncing reflective scream (So you could possibly bounce some Frost Breath, a Blood Ball, or a Stun Ball away =P).
Creeper - One trap basically stuns a Ghoul like one of the Creeper's Stun Balls.
Jitter - Something like a fountain of bone shards or a burst that damages Ghouls and pushes them back.
Choke - An explosion of blood or something.
Frostbite - The trap explodes, and frost breath is sent in 8 cardinal and diagonal directions.

-The Ghostbuster's Soul Plasma attack should do splash damage, since it's marginally worthless right now. Either that, or it should leech health from Ghouls when it hits directly, maybe about 5 HP per projectile. Perhaps those two things, or it should slow a Ghoul down when they are hit by it, but not completely stop them.

-The Ghostbuster's Blood Spread attack should be less melee based, and have a longer reach (As Ivory said), or do a lot more damage to make it worth getting up in the Ghouls' faces. It should also make you run at Choke's speed until you get rid of the Blood Spread.

-The Ghostbuster's Ice Fountain attack should have a slight bit more ice rain per shot, but not too much, just so you stand more of a chance against Jitter or Sjas when you have it equipped.

-The Ghostbuster achievement "Who Ya' Gonna Call?" should be rewarded to all Ghostbuster players when 10 Ghouls are killed by Ghostbusters. If possible, the kills should also carry from round to round, since there's usually never going to be more than 10 Ghouls at once, and no one hardly ever plays on TDM (Which is actually quite fun).

-The Ghostbuster should have unique obituaries depending on what weapon he has currently equipped.

-Choke should have an obituary for killing someone with the blood-ball-cancel vomit "attack". Just saying, since it seems odd since it says you munched them when you do kill them with the vomit.

-Santa's achievement "Shooting Star" seem a tad finicky. It doesn't seem like you can get it if you kill 3 Ghouls with one star, it seems like it has to be two or more.

-Santa's achievement "Santa's Workshop" does not seem to work at all. I have no idea what the cause is, but when you kill a Ghoul with each of his weapons, it does not trigger.

-Frostbite should be healed and/or have his armor recharged faster if hit by Ice Arrows/Magic. How many shards/spikes hit you determines the values (More hits = More HP).

-Frostbite should also take more damage from Fire Arrows as compensation for the above. It doesn't quite make sense that you can kill an ice monster with ice and fire doesn't do more damage, now does it? :3

-Frostbite's armor regeneration should have about a 1 or 2 second delay after you are hit to start up again. It being instantaneous is hell on a Marine without machine gun ammo.

-The Creeper can get trapped in the map "Project: Strikebeam" (GVH 29) in this spot: http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii17 ... 022810.png (http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/Robbingjoe/Screenshot_Doom_20100116_022810.png) I think the crates should be moved together so the Creeper can't fall down in there.

-Some of the hints are off, like saying the Hunter still has his teleportation magic, and saying the Ghostbuster only has 4 unique weapons.

Oh, also, a little request, could you list all the technical music names for all the songs (In other words, the "Changemus" commands). Thanks~! :3

And Robjoe goes for the shoot... and... AND... TOUCHDOWN! EPIC WIN POST HAS SCORED +1 POINT!

Great ideas, Robjoe. The Trap Idea was something I was rolling around inside my head for a little bit... then I read that.  :cool:

And, for note... My ideas are...

...Damn. See the quote. Can't wait to play this online.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 16, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
Grenades are fine.

Fire doesn't really hurt ice in reality. Why? A fire arrow travels at a certain speed loses the density of its gas because of velocity and air resistance. Frostbites wouldn't really suffer much from fire arrows in reality (since it is a moving object too).

Firemagic maybe, but meh.

Also Blood vomit thing for Ghostbusters would be a bit op if he can fight jitters with it too (considering it can practically melee all other classes).

What does anyone think of gvh25?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on January 16, 2010, 06:20:47 PM
What about GVH25?
I thought the only problem with that map was the ceiling was too low.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: White on January 16, 2010, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
What does anyone think of gvh25?

(http://www.doomworld.com/16years/images/worstwad.png)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: ThaMarine on January 16, 2010, 06:54:33 PM
Why isn't there anyone on the 2b7 server?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Qent on January 16, 2010, 07:50:25 PM
Now that the proton pack and traps are split into completely separate weapons, I would prefer that traps be set with primary fire and detonated with secondary fire. Does anyone else feel this way?

There is also a texture issue that has been bugging me since CD came out:
(click to show/hide)
I think that the old one looks much better.

EDIT: Two more small things: the ghostbuster does not recharge while standing on objects, and the choke's bloodball has autoaim.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 16, 2010, 08:09:09 PM
I actually like the new one

Setting traps primary is a lot better for those that twitch (like myself).

Also Ghostbusters can silently pass ghouls if the player holds secondary fire without an upgrade (although it sounds like a taxi driving by). I don't know, but give it a try.

Oh yea! Obituaries for Jitters is mutating players :x
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: TERRORsphere on January 16, 2010, 09:32:56 PM
The old one is more consistent. So it must be better.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on January 16, 2010, 11:45:21 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Oh yea! Obituaries for Jitters is mutating players :x
Obituaries for a lot of the ghouls are messed up.

Anyways, more thoughts.
Sjas:
I'm not exactly sure what to do about this, but Sjas swarms really need to be dealt with. Other then that he's fine.

Choke:
Choke should gain 30-50 hp back per munch kill.

When Munching, there should either be a visual or sound that indicates if you're actually hitting someone.

Frost Bite:
Armor regeneration should be slower and as Robjoe said, have a small delay before it starts regenerating.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on January 17, 2010, 01:06:34 AM
Quote from: "White"
Quote from: "Mobius"
What does anyone think of gvh25?

(http://www.doomworld.com/16years/images/worstwad.png)

Ok so many people seem to think this but no one says why, if ya can't back it up then you must be merely following the crowd.

I other words "You Fail It" is NOT constructive criticism in any way.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 17, 2010, 02:21:24 AM
To a more technical feedback

Hom

(click to show/hide)

I feel responsible for letting this slip considering that I knew about this before but it slipped my mind. Don't fire me.

Dangerous crate placements
(click to show/hide)

^ Humans, creepers, chokes will not fair well being stuck there. Well not surer about creepers.

Gvh25 needed a ceiling increase for sjas users to live against nades, busters, and cyborg zoning. The entrance outside has been widen to avoid this choke-hold humans have camping outside.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on January 17, 2010, 12:53:09 PM
And since all that has been fixed then there really is nothing left to GVH25.
GVH28 had several HOMs as well if I recall, but since I always use OpenGL they were always masked and I never saw them.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Possesed on January 17, 2010, 08:00:47 PM
could the ghost busters normal beam have a  "last resort" based attack when it runs out of ammo like the cyborg?  Because i keep getting killed by sjas who keep evading my plasma and before i know it, im out of ammo and prety much defensless. And his beam weapon eats up ammo reealy quick
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: TERRORsphere on January 17, 2010, 08:11:03 PM
I agree with possessed.

Also, where is the creeperball jumping? :-(
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 17, 2010, 08:20:20 PM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
I agree with possessed.

Also, where is the creeperball jumping? :-(

Never gonna happen.

Also, learn to conserve your Ghostbuster plasma.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on January 18, 2010, 04:32:31 PM
Does it really matter? Making the kill and upgrading your weapon is free 100% charge. I've never had an issue with ammo anyways.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 18, 2010, 06:21:16 PM
Especially the strategy to just spam up your plasma to 0 and, at any time, upgrade to your next weapon at 100 percent.

C'mon.. GhostBuster is pretty good now.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 20, 2010, 11:59:56 AM
I actually forgot a bunch of fixes I was supposed to do in this version. None of them are TOO gameplay breaking but here's my list.

new list below
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 20, 2010, 01:04:56 PM
The marine slow down fixes itself when you toss a grenade. I always assumed it was a grenade related issue though.

CRUSHER bug?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 20, 2010, 01:09:38 PM
It is to do with throwing a grenade. I think it might happen if you let go of a grenade JUST before it's about to splode on you, but it's easily fixed. Not sure about the Hunter but again I can force their speed back to normal if I have to.

CRUSHER might be some texture on that map I dunno
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 20, 2010, 10:41:42 PM
I always got the grenade bug when I held a grenade and died, then spawn next round.

But that was random, so I doubt it's that.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Lighting on January 21, 2010, 05:17:08 PM
this IS what I was searching all the time, a Wad with all the maps, characters and weapons, AWESOME MAN!
Congratulations
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Xorpedo on January 23, 2010, 09:34:19 AM
I've been playing beta7 and testing GB all the time. It's AWESOME! I keep getting like 12-15 kills per map with him. But I think that:
 Bone cannon - Needs to eat up 15 ammo but lower damage.
 Sonic Blast - A bit too unpractical, it's average-to-weak for all ghouls: It's hard to hit creepers, too slow for jitters, Chokes are too fast for it, and sjas is the worst, he flies up like crazy and just waits for you to run out of that ammo eating sonic blast. It should be like a fast burst of of 5 mini sonic blasts in which 1 uses 1 ammo. And it needs to be faster...
 

Also, when I kill a jitter with blood spreader it says i zapped him with my proton pack. I think it should be put up for every upgrade. Umm this is what i mean:
bone cannon kill - * was zapped by Xorpedo's proton pack --> * was penetrated by Xorpedo's bone cannon.

You get what I mean?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: TERRORsphere on January 23, 2010, 08:01:03 PM
Quote from: "Xorpedo"
* was penetrated by Xorpedo's bone cannon.
The sonic blasts are fine, They are really good for rooms. The blood spreader is shit though. Needs more range and spread.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on January 23, 2010, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "Xorpedo"
* was penetrated by Xorpedo's bone cannon.
The sonic blasts are fine, They are really good for rooms. The blood spreader is shit though. Needs more range and spread.

Or just a little more range. I find it to be effective enough, except against jitters.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on January 23, 2010, 11:11:12 PM
Just a thought, could you reorganize the way the Humans and Ghouls appear in the player menu? Right now it's something like Marine, Hunter, Cyborg, Sjas, Jitterskull, Creeper, Choke, Ghost Buster, Santa, Frost Bite. For people who use that menu to change player class, it would be more faster and less of a headache. So could you simply rearrange it to be Marine, Hunter, Cyborg, Ghost Buster, Santa, Sjas, Jitterskull, Creeper, Choke, Frost Bite?

Wouldn't even be much work, just rearrange the keyconf's addplayerclass.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on January 25, 2010, 09:14:24 AM
Sure, I don't see why not.

Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on January 25, 2010, 04:22:56 PM
I'm not sure if the bone cannon should be any stronger, while messing around in a bot match i tried the bone cannon and suprisingly could like 2-hit a choke with it, it being a rapid fire railgun with some shots on it.
It seems quite powerfull enough if it actually hits, and the cost of 20 ammo suits the damage well, the little delay for the gun to activate the bone cannon makes aiming a tad more harder too. I find it pays off if you hit with it, but isnt too powerfull, either. I think its fine as it is.

Blood spreader is indeed kinda... Worthless, a melee-range attack against giant-headed enemies that take you down in one go is kinda... Not too effecient, but more range might make it more doable, but approaching bots with this is asking to be killed (except sjas with his safe delay between screams).

Not sure about the soul plasma, its... Original though. :P
And i dont think i ever saw an option to remove textures. An certain unnamed person often is said to "hack" by doing that. I would be curious about how that option is called and where its found.

Looking forward to certain things such as archivements for killing santa's and ghostbusters, hehe... And lately Frostbites seem kinda strong, just my feedback, but they ARE quite durable, even said to survive an ice arrow impact. I cant be too sure if he's too powerfull now or well balanced being that his bite is short ranged and his breath a slow killer, but its nice the bite pays off nicely now. But i'll still stick to good ol Jitterskull for his long-range intercepting bite. :P
Speaking of durable classes, Jitter is no longer the only one with 150HP if i am correct, choke should have that amount now too? Might want to edit the tips/information a little now too.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Qent on January 25, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
And i dont think i ever saw an option to remove textures. An certain unnamed person often is said to "hack" by doing that. I would be curious about how that option is called and where its found.
Is it possibly Display Options > OpenGL Options > Texture Options > Textures Enabled? (Which changes the gl_texture CVAR.)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on January 25, 2010, 07:25:35 PM
Damn. This is just overkill when it comes to creeper spotting.
(click to show/hide)
I've tried this a moment in my map, adding 4 creeper bots and, well, seeing the results... Why does this exist? For debug purposes or something?

You can even somewhat see the map shape depending on shade and GL lights and whatnot, so its just a real sight enhancer with the cost of graphics. Meh, hope he does implement a flag to stop that. :P

Oh well, dont expect me to use this against creepers, since i'm basically always Jitterskull (for a good reason, too). :P
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mikk- on January 25, 2010, 08:57:17 PM
Also,
Using No textures means that you can't see certain sprites.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Knux on January 25, 2010, 09:56:59 PM
I'm not sure if the bone cannon should be any stronger, while messing around in a bot match i tried the bone cannon and suprisingly could like 2-hit a choke with it, it being a rapid fire railgun with some shots on it.
It seems quite powerfull enough if it actually hits, and the cost of 20 ammo suits the damage well, the little delay for the gun to activate the bone cannon makes aiming a tad more harder too. I find it pays off if you hit with it, but isnt too powerfull, either. I think its fine as it is.


I find the Bone Cannon to be a high risk, high return weapon. Being a hitscan weapon, I'd much rather not activate it if there are mostly Creepers around, simply because I suck at aiming well with free aim. It's a matter of skill. (And low ping.  :| )

Blood spreader is indeed kinda... Worthless, a melee-range attack against giant-headed enemies that take you down in one go is kinda... Not too effecient, but more range might make it more doable, but approaching bots with this is asking to be killed (except sjas with his safe delay between screams).

Right now, the best way I see to use this upgrade is to run away while firing it at chasers, and attract them into an ally readying an attack. This is a problem if you don't know the maps well, or if someone else blocks your way though.

Not sure about the soul plasma, its... Original though. :P

I think it's great as it is. Unless I'm Jitterskull and then it gets annoying... D:
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on February 10, 2010, 12:38:15 PM
Hmm... Just some more feedback.

Some people find that choke doesny last really long with his melee bite, and say a kill should heal a minor amount of HP. Meh, i would agree on a melee kill, he litterally eats em, why not? Something along the lines of 20+ HP, 25, maybe 30, something, perhaps?
Its mainly because he needs to approach his enemy normally AND doesnt have an instakill bite or flying either, so he's undoubtedly gonna get hit.

Well, mostly a suggestion, stalking and eating someone's behind isnt always a option in every map, it may come in handy.

And not sure if its known to some, but apparently you can shoot through the windows in the map Rust(from the cold demise expansion) with specifically bloodballs and can grab people through the window with creeper's hands, too.
Not sure if anything else forces itself through. Humans also camp there frequently. :P

Hmm... I dont like the riotgun much as it is now, more spread would perhaps be less of an guaranteed loss of 40+ HP when merely spotted by a marine. The accurate low ping ones are more dangerous then ice arrow hunters, seriously.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on February 10, 2010, 12:49:41 PM
The windows don't work because the Creeper's projectile comes out in front of him, as does Jitterskull's and such. I'll have to make it less haxable.

People always go on about how Choke should get hp back but I'm not feeling it man. He can run faster than anyone, aint that enough?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Danzolegend on February 10, 2010, 01:19:50 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
People always go on about how Choke should get hp back but I'm not feeling it man. He can run faster than anyone, aint that enough?

Aye, not to mention he was UNLIMITED amounts of blood balls...cant ask for more than that :D

But with the Hunter I have noticed he seems to not be...how can I put this...affective against good Ghouls anymore...I can only seem to kill Creepers that have a tardish moment and stop in the middle of an open area in battle..even then you have to Aim from a distance because the HOLYSHI-I'MSLOWIND0WNANAIMINBUTTRYINNOTTOGETOWNTBYSOMENUBWHOCOMESFROMBEHINDMESOIGONNAFU-INRUNAWAYLIKAPUSSYANDDIE tends to happen..and I dont say this crap unless it happens VERY often..  D:
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on February 10, 2010, 04:48:18 PM
Hmm... Guess its how people play with Choke. Most probaly prefer an assault tactic that involves quick killing. Doing so often gets you hit too, though, so no wonder with how he attacks and doesnt even instakill with melee that he gets hit when assaulting.
Other classes ussually are better at this tactic though, chokes get hit while engaging the enemy frontally.

However when uhh, attacking people from behind or in any other silent manner, he's probaly fast enough to get away with it, and even makes a decent sniper. Guess he's good all around for stealth-ish and assault or support purposes. Just his melee attack sucks for directly attacking.

I do wonder, what was the intention of how choke was to play and act? An purely offensive class, one that sneaks around, bites or instakilles you and runs away, or something else?

Oh yeah, there's probaly some spelling errors in your wad file here and there. I think there might be one in the hints too. Kinda forgot what and where though, i'd suggest re-reading it carefully and editing it once making a new version.
Hmm... If making a new one is required at all, its nicely balanced for most part by now. I've seen no big complaints, but i still dont like the riotgun, though. :P
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on February 11, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
I keep saying, so I'll say it again.
Sjas flies, Creeper fits in small places Jitterskull hacks, Frost Bite has armor and keep his distance very easily. Choke, my favorite class, can only be sneaky, run very fast and spew up blood balls. Blood Balls are only as effective as the one who uses them... or gets lucky. You must understand the arcing perfectly and have really good prediction skills. Or just be in the right place at the right time. Hes fast and silent. Sure can easily sneak up to humans, but isn't always an option. He always tends to get hits(so does Jitterskull and frost bite, but they have Jittering movement and armor to compensate). Choke only has speed and as an avid Choke user, the ONLY thing that Choke still lacks is some sort of HP Recovery to compensate with all the damage he takes.

Also my tactics involve stealthy hit and run attacks. I only assault them IF I'm positive I can kill them with little damage to myself... but that still doesn't mean I don't get hit. I would love to see a minor HP Recovery from making munch kills. I've been thinking this ever since EW.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 15, 2010, 10:33:33 PM
Don't want to go through the countless posts to check if this has been said before so...

Choke's sprites are incorrect when firing, they were not this delayed before.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on February 17, 2010, 11:24:00 AM
This is another case of, works fine offline, dies online. States don't seem follow the rules online sometimes, this is a skulltag issue.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 17, 2010, 03:41:41 PM
I've also decided to "remake" GVH28, this is not because of pressure from the fanbase, but of personal preference, I have played it online and it just doesn't play like I imagined it would, and I have some ideas on how I could improve it, not necessarily making it smaller, just different. [/runonsentence]

And GVH27...

Not only are complaints rampant about this map, but I just don't see good gameplay on it. Either it be replaced with a certain other map I have that's gathering dust (thought it would be used in a different project, but it never happened), or I could try to redeem it.

Also, I was going to use my old version of the Graveyard (without snow) for another project, but it never panned out, and I noticed a few annoying gameplay issues with the Graveyard as well (teleporter camping, how could I have missed that?!), so on top of fixing some problems, I think I will add a couple brand new areas as well.

First I wanna see what everyone else thinks, don't wanna go wasting my time if there's a problem.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on February 18, 2010, 03:43:52 PM
The most popular complaint about GVH27 is that it somehow lags. Aside from that, it seems like a marine map on small battles and a ghoul map on large games. There's also a room inside the ship thats makes life rather difficult for ghouls when humans camp in there.
There may be a creeper hole and a window to shoot breath through but they can also shoot back!

And i'm guessing the lag is caused by the rain somehow (thats what most people say), if the rain is simply a transparant animated texture instead of a spawner dropping rain, it might be that. Guess transparant mid textures may be cause of lag. Could be what makes my map lag a bit more then most.

Ah well, i wouldnt say no against a better map if there is any. I wouldnt mind if my map was used instead either. :P
But seems unlikely maps need replacement that badly.

In GVH28 games can take rather long, the outside is a exellent hit and run area if not ambushed.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on February 18, 2010, 04:51:50 PM
That level was lagging mobius, so I removed the rain and sent it him and it was still causing him problems. Then I thought okay it must be the skybox, but still nothing. I don't know what else to try  :|
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 18, 2010, 05:51:30 PM
Well what are we gonna do about GVH27? It's too small of a map to cause lag honestly, and if the rain being removed is still cause for lag, then... alternatives? (I'd be willing to fix up the map, make it look nice and more playable, especially on the inside, but with lag all that could be pointless)

As for GVH28, I was thinking of making the map more centered around the actual base within, by making the base larger, and the rest of the map would center around that, in return a small, and possibly better looking and more playable map is created, while still keeping the gameplay relatively the same (mainly in the outside are, the base will be more roomy, giving humans a fighting chance, as of right now it seems rather claustrophobic.

Reason I didn't say anything about working with GVH25 is that I don't know what's wrong with it, so...

Mik57 said he'd fix up GVH29 so I won't bother with that one.

Hell Froze Over, no one complains about this map, so I suppose I don't need to touch it  :p (same with pretty much all the other unmentioned maps)

No one has anything to say about GVH22 being made larger?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on February 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Quote from: "Damage"
No one has anything to say about GVH22 being made larger?

GvH 22's outside is fine. However when you have large amounts of player, the game play turns into telecamping and camping in front of the main entrance. Then it becomes a war of attrition. Point is, if anything needs fixing, it's the inside portion of the map. Perhaps two entrances? Or maybe just a wider entryway?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 21, 2010, 12:40:15 AM
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3mtt7s (http://www.sendspace.com/file/3mtt7s)

I really want to get rid of this map, feels like a waste just gathering dust on my drive, and it was made for GVH.

If the lag issues on the boat can't be fixed, why not replace it, no offense to the man who made that map, and I'm not in any way trying to overpopulate the GVH map pack, but a GVH map has to go SOMEWHERE.

Besides Cutmanmike, who will slap me with a  large trout for making this post (unless he won't), what do you guys think about this?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on February 21, 2010, 11:11:12 PM
That map better replace gvh27. Even without the lag on the boat, it's still not a good level design. I can't comment too much on this new map without playing some actual GvH on it. As far as running around the level went, it's a good replacement.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on February 21, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
Hmm... Taken a look as well, never got any gameplay on it yet though, guess it cant possibily be worse as replacement.

But speaking of replacing maps, i wouldnt mind if mine was put in GVH either, but probaly then everyone with a map would want that and perhaps would flood him with requests. :P

Cant say much about the detail, really, havent seen a blood-themed map in ages, gameplay could be interesting, but i prefer head on instant killing, such as gvh02, there's little space to hide or suprise attack if you like, or you could just recklessly dash into the battle and kill or be killed.

But i wouldnt mind if my GVHLM map was added either, but i really think Cutman should make an official map pack of sorts for this problem. (Or have someone else make/plan one and him saying its official.) :P

I dont have much feedback regarding gameplay, hmm... Only pressing that the riotgun still seems rather unfair, point, click, win, meh. Repeat if win is not archived, its a hitscan, a DAMN powerfull one at that.

Also a random idea, how about choke's puke (when cancelling a bloodball) blinding humans a while, in case they get close while he's firing, he cancels, and the humans are either in his face or near him(the puke currently lasts a small moment), and he can make his escape. It probaly could be done in the same manner as the creeper pop up, except longer lasting puke or simply screen flashing red a short notice.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 22, 2010, 12:39:17 AM
Well Carthief, upon looking at Pred's latest topic he may have added your map into his pack, which is fine.

I can understand as to why there is nothing to say about the gameplay of the map, I guess it's up to Cutmanmike to decide whether anything is going to be changed though.

As for GVH22, I took the time to really open up the insides a little more, and make teleporter camping pretty much useless.

Next stop is making the new GVH28.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: sexypred on February 22, 2010, 08:19:44 AM
Yesh i have added Cartheif's map  but i asked permission from him on a server >;p

Anyway Cutman is it ok if i Re-Construct or fix up gvh18 - solanid

PLease >;3
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Kashtanka on February 22, 2010, 09:45:24 PM
More maps will be done?
I also know how to build maps.
I want to take part in the creation of maps.
Can? =^^_^=
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on February 23, 2010, 05:39:11 AM
Well this is merely discussion of replacing a certain map, which the replacement map has pretty much been laid out, although if you are looking for a place to make brand new GVH maps, preds topic may be down your alley.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Danzolegend on February 23, 2010, 01:00:30 PM
To be quite frank I think that 20 Gvh maps is enough..never mind 30 + Expansion packs!
but I wouldnt mind playing some expansions when i'm bored of remembering Gvh 21+  So if you guys need a beta tester/Creeper pro then shout me on here :p
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CarThief on March 04, 2010, 04:22:18 PM
Hmm... Speaking of GVH maps, i could just try giving them a rating on how well the team would do in each map. If anyone's interested in how the maps feel to me. Rating goes in human/ghoul %, say, 60/40 tends to be a human map.

Well, it might come in handy if you're looking for a gameplay opinion. I'd contribute more data, but aside from the riotgun being a royal pain in the ass... Hmm...
Well, i wouldnt mind if Jitterskull, being a big giant piece of bone, would be more bullet resistant to not get killed in 2/3 shots after missing. OR if the riotgun was given more spread or damage reducement.
Some people in-game agreed it could use a small nerf, meh.
Ok, come on, who's the first to go into a nerd rage and beat me to death about it?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on March 15, 2010, 04:43:54 PM
As I haven't been around for a while and need to catch up on all this, could people please list anything that needs doing for the update? Balance problems, bugs (even texture problems), etc. No new features please.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on March 15, 2010, 09:17:09 PM
Well there's the map issues that were brought up earlier, the decision of GVH26 (I think that's the boat map) and the update for GVH22 that I sent to you. I was going to redo GVH28 to be a little less roomy, but since people haven't been complaining too much about it, and since I have many more other projects to help people out on/work on my own, I decided not to do the redo.

There's also the odd choke sprite delay when firing, this is best checked out by yourself.

I think Frostbite was discussed to have a different armor icon, and that his armor regen rate would be reduced, so as to help marines kill him a little better, although I'm not sure if this is necessarily needed.

That's all I can recall, also there's the ma issues that CarThief brought up above, not sure if anything can be done about those though, that stuff actually requires some remapping.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: TERRORsphere on March 15, 2010, 10:49:24 PM
The boat map is NOT GVH26. GVH26 is that awesome map that is awesome and has linedefs made from awesome.

GVH27 is what you're talking about.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Anonymous on March 16, 2010, 03:48:33 AM
Call me a N00B If you want, but I've been hearing some people saying I can fight Yurei in the offline campaign, if this true? and another thing, they said I have to be on "Human's Last Stand" Mode to fight her...
But so far, I haven't found either, any help?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 16, 2010, 04:01:38 AM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
The boat map is NOT GVH26. GVH26 is that awesome map that is awesome and has linedefs made from awesome.

GVH27 is what you're talking about.

Gvh28 > Gvh26

The game is fine from what I have been through. I just think you should change the icon for the armor of Frostbites to a popsicle. That'd be awesome.

Now that I am here! I think I should bring this to you if I haven't already for gvh29.

Just in case I haven't brought it to your attention:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/554/ ... 001162.png (http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/554/screenshotdoom201001162.png)
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/554/ ... 001162.png (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/554/screenshotdoom201001162.png)

^ HOMS

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/554/ ... 001162.png (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/554/screenshotdoom201001162.png)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/554/sc ... 001162.png (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/554/screenshotdoom201001162.png)

^ Crate trap.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 18, 2010, 11:45:26 PM
I kinda wish the wads were separated again. I tried to host GvH earlier and I found out it was using 2.4 GB of my box's RAM. It was alot smaller than that when it was separate :[ Oh well
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 19, 2010, 01:19:54 AM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
I kinda wish the wads were separated again. I tried to host GvH earlier and I found out it was using 2.4 GB of my box's RAM. It was alot smaller than that when it was separate :[ Oh well

Are you serious?! You're trolling.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 19, 2010, 02:31:50 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Are you serious?! You're trolling.
I'm afraid not. Top [The Linux equivalent of Task Manager] is reading it as 2.4 GB. I am not joking.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on March 19, 2010, 10:11:58 AM
What makes it smaller when they're separate? Supergod insisted that it would be better for servers if it was less files.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 19, 2010, 10:06:39 PM
If I knew I would experiment with it a bit and tell you. Before the max my GvH server would run up in ram would be 1.2 GB.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 20, 2010, 12:08:11 AM
Quote from: "Wartorn"
If I knew I would experiment with it a bit and tell you. Before the max my GvH server would run up in ram would be 1.2 GB.

(click to show/hide)

Are you sure it isn't bad ram or a memory allocation failure on Linux's part? My SKILL server is doing fine, though a bit higher than normal.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 20, 2010, 01:35:47 AM
I dunno what to tell you, I restarted the box a couple of times and it's nothing different.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 20, 2010, 02:02:44 AM
The fact that any of your servers is running at Gigabytes is a problem. My Gvh server right now is only 3,000 kbs.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 20, 2010, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
The fact that any of your servers is running at Gigabytes is a problem. My Gvh server right now is only 3,000 kbs.
The other two servers seen there are intensive as well. (Shotgun Frenzy and SMWGuns with Plutonia)
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 20, 2010, 07:14:19 PM
I don't even think it's natural anyway. The most intensive servers I have ran were invasion servers like Armageddon and Alpha/Delta, while playing, and neither went more than 40kbs.

I'll give shotgun frenzy a spin under Plutonia but I don't think it will make a difference. You talked to Torr about it?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: CutmanMike on March 22, 2010, 11:46:31 AM
Quote from: "Damage"
Well there's the map issues that were brought up earlier, the decision of GVH26 (I think that's the boat map) and the update for GVH22 that I sent to you.

Refresh my memory, what did the one you sent me update?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on March 24, 2010, 12:23:45 AM
No more teleporter camping, and bigger indoor areas, basically the map is a lot more camp proof now. For GVH22, this is.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 24, 2010, 01:57:02 AM
Quote from: "Damage"
No more teleporter camping, and bigger indoor areas, basically the map is a lot more camp proof now. For GVH22, this is.

But who does the camping benefit?
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Wartorn on March 24, 2010, 01:34:15 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
I'll give shotgun frenzy a spin under Plutonia but I don't think it will make a difference. You talked to Torr about it?
I have not. It might just be Top going whacko, we'll see.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Ivory on March 25, 2010, 05:44:44 PM
I recall a glitch with the Hunter. Sometimes if you switch arrows, he'll use the wrong magic.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on March 28, 2010, 01:16:28 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "Damage"
No more teleporter camping, and bigger indoor areas, basically the map is a lot more camp proof now. For GVH22, this is.

But who does the camping benefit?

Anyone who gets within the buildings first, and since the humans start there...I guess it would be them. The buildings are bigger though, so there is more room to move and fight, but before people could hide behind the teleporters, which basically makes it impossible for a melee class to get to them.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 28, 2010, 09:46:35 AM
Quote from: "Damage"
Anyone who gets within the buildings first, and since the humans start there...I guess it would be them. The buildings are bigger though, so there is more room to move and fight, but before people could hide behind the teleporters, which basically makes it impossible for a melee class to get to them.

I think having the building larger would be great but for a totally different reason. From all the time playing, it wasn't the camping that won the game. In reality, humans that camp in the building is the worst thing humans can do in larger games because people would block shots or pathways to escape and then jitters or frostbites come and just rape like crazy.. and creepers.. it's a nightmare.

Most of the time I see humans winning is when they leave the building and camp outside at the cemetery.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on March 28, 2010, 11:58:21 AM
Well now there should be more room to maneuver inside the buildings, hopefully making hitting ghouls harder.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Mobius on March 28, 2010, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: "Damage"
Well now there should be more room to maneuver inside the buildings, hopefully making hitting ghouls harder.

As if it wasn't hard to him them in there already.
Title: Re: GVHv2 beta 7 released - No more expansions
Post by: Grymmoire on March 28, 2010, 04:44:42 PM
This is a very recursive argument. It seems that, by your argument, opening up the inside helps both the ghouls and the humans, so...what is the problem?

I mean, if ghouls are harder to hit, then it should make human camping harder, especially around the teleporters, where only frostbite and the creeper could get them.