Cutstuff Forum

Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch => Projects & Creative => Maps => Topic started by: Fyone on February 13, 2012, 08:36:58 PM

Title: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1b)
Post by: Fyone on February 13, 2012, 08:36:58 PM
FMP2 - Fyone's Map Pack 2:
-DOWNLOAD V1B- (http://www.mediafire.com/?2vedhzxedmd8nfp)

Older versions:
(click to show/hide)

SCREENSHOTS:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Gummywormz on February 13, 2012, 09:24:12 PM
I would like to inquire as to who made the amazing 8 bit music in this pack.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 13, 2012, 09:26:26 PM
Lad made the songs. There the first ones he made as well  :)
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 13, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
ill check it out. would you like some feedback too?
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 13, 2012, 09:45:57 PM
Yes...
Quote from: "Fyone"
Please comment and tell me what to fix, what to add, and/or what to take out.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Knux on February 13, 2012, 09:46:25 PM
Fyone, I was going to say something about all the maps, but you already know what I think from the PMs I sent you. Basically, you ignored 95% of it and did what you wanted. Well, it's your map pack alright. Doesn't keep me from feeling I wasted time on you, though. It's not like I'm telling you to do things to my liking either, but whatever.

Oh and the second map has badly placed textures in the ceiling of the staircase to the right of the castle, and both teleporter destinations. Do what you want.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 13, 2012, 10:00:34 PM
Well, I took your comments into account but I had other testers who thought otherwise; that's all. Let me tell you that I really appreciate your comments, but I can't base my maps only on you; I must take other comments into account as well.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: LlamaHombre on February 13, 2012, 10:05:02 PM
Mind if I have your permission to put the music up on mediafire? There's a populace wanting to hear it out outside of your pack.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Knux on February 13, 2012, 10:14:24 PM
Let me tell you that I really appreciate your comments, but I can't base my maps only on you; I must take other comments into account as well.

Well, obviously. I mean, if most people like it, then there's nothing to fix.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 13, 2012, 10:21:42 PM
I hope you like reading.. :L

ALL:
Pro-It's.. a map collection. YAY MAPS! :D (sorry i really couldnt find a positive for overall >.<)
Con- maps are either too cramped or WAAAYYY to huge.
Con- Weapon energy and health capsules.. if you're sticking with the sizes of those you need to readjust them. One capsule here and there in a large map simply isn't enough.
Pon: It's a pro and a con. Nice music, but for some reason it annoys me after awhile. Especially in the 5th map. literally seems like a 10 second loop.  thats probably just me though.

Map1:
This map. One word. Gigantic. There's too much open space. Fill it with something. Add more capsules when you do. On the brightman side, hehe megaman jokes a variety of textures. That's good.

Map2:
In the style of Billy Mays-See, hallways are pretty cool. So are square rooms. Put them together.. WTF! No, but seriously. This map is also too huge, with little capsules for health/ammo. A long square hallway with little to no decor. Then, we get a variation of a square room, linking to 4 equally square rooms. Mix it up abit. Try not to go perfectly square either.

Map3:
OMG A TREEHOUSE!! I love this idea. The map isn't as huge as the others, but i cant help but feel that it still seems huge. Still needs better/more capsule placement and filler space. Also, the ballade cracker and silver tomahawk locations seem too easy to reach. At LEAST move the ballade cracker to someplace else. If i may suggest, put an rj somewhere and put the ballade cracker on top of the treehouse XD

Map4:
Back to the too huge thing. the platforms on the sides with all of the ladders remind me of hyper lode runner. Yes, it does XD. Too plain of textures on the inside. Spice it up abit. Shrink it/put filler space? Also with the usual problem of not enough capsules.

Map5:
Cossack's testing facility. Interesting idea. but, the long and annoying way just for item 1? I see how it's an idea to hide it there then put it, but the platforms to get the etank/skull barrier seem more rush coil worthy than item 1. decent sized rooms at a few locations, but it needs just abit of filler space. I find the hallways with the springs cramped at the end annoying, as with the loop that seems only 10 seconds or so long.


AND THAT MY FRIEND, is my feedback. These are my opinions, and you can take them into consideration if you do so choose.

HAVE A NICE DAY! :D
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Dr. Freeman on February 13, 2012, 10:31:06 PM
Now I don't really care about the maps, as something more important stuck out to me.
The music.
I'm going to cut the sarcasm and just comment on the songs.

Every Song: The noise channel needs to be improved upon.
1: There is some dissonance (I believe that's the correct term. When two notes are played and they sound bad together). When there is one held long note, and another square is doing some 8th notes or something. And it is generally unappealing to the ear.
2: After the opening part where the noise channel kicks in, the lead just seems to comprise of random notes with no reason. And it might be me, but it seems as the key is constantly changing
3: I would say that this one is somewhat decent. Though sometimes the square sounds a bit funny, which is mostly heard before the loop.
4: Ok, the group of 16th/8th notes seem a bit random, and they do not fit with the rest of the melody as they seem to be in a different key. And as it progresses the notes seem to be even more random, that and no part of the song goes well with the previously mentioned 16th notes.
5: What on earth is the noise channel doing in this song? I know what was trying to be done, the same thing with Fire Man's stage. But here, it's just a bunch of random noises that don't fit with the song! Also remember that dissonance I mentioned earlier. It's all over the place in this song with the two squares playing at the same time. It just sounds terrible to the ear.
Boss: The tom effect in the Triangle doesn't exactly work if you cut it off, which is what happens throughout the song. Also this is very repetitive. And before it loops the notes seemed rushed.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Red on February 13, 2012, 10:31:56 PM
tl;dr it sucks


May i kindly suggest to rename your "CLIFMUS" to another thing? it conflicts with my amazing earthbound pack.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 13, 2012, 10:34:19 PM
with lagman in mind, might i suggest you name it to just FYNMUS1? It might help.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: RebootRaeg on February 13, 2012, 11:21:12 PM
this is my opinion don't pay attention lol
(this is about music by the way)
(god i love music)

FMPBOSS- It's interesting. I agree with others, in the fact that it is a bit repetitive, but that's not too bad. I mean, isn't vidya gaem music all about repetition? It's also very different from something you'd usually hear in a video game such as Mega Man. As a whole, it's a good start, but it's still a bit empty. The beat was there, but it didn't really make a bold presence, and could be worked on a bit to make it a better backup to the rest of the song. The rest of it was decent, but I felt that the melody could have been taken to many more directions than you let it go. It remained around that one note for a good portion of the song, and as far as length, the melody could have continued and been built upon much higher than you attempted.

Overall, it's a start, and all it needs is a bit more structure.

GREEMUS- I'll come right out and say it, the first half of the song wasn't too keen. I still very much appreciated what it tried to do, which was build. This song had more structure than BOSS did, which I found very acceptable. As probably mentioned before, the melody of the first half was kind of....reaching. Like, it was grasping for a melody or a hook to hold on to, while still trying to be interesting. It was a good effort, which I again would like to mention that I appreciated that effort to be different, but it didn't exactly come up to par. Although, the second half was actually quite an improvement. It did what the first half tried to do. It went everywhere, yet it still held interest and sounded pretty decent. I don't know, it might've been the harmonizing notes you tried to pull off, but it caught my attention, and really took up and used the first half's potential.
The beat and backing, though, was again kind of empty, and could have been worked on. But as far as melody, it was certainly better than BOSS.

KAVEMUS- Where GREE lacked in beat, KAVE kind of made up for it. The beat was stronger and more noticeable in this tune, and also being actually kind of catchy. Like GREE, however, it can also be very easily regarded as two halves, with those halves very noticeably differing. This time, the first half was great. That beat that I mentioned started it off and led into the melody, which was again interesting. It went to notes unexpected and experimented with different ways to top off the decent main body of the melody. In the second half, which can be clearly distinguished by the heightening in key, is different though. It's more...math-y. It plays around with the beat and the time signature, suddenly shifting and again trying something new. Although, it may not have worked as well, as the melody came a bit weak during the shift. Again, I still appreciated what you tried to do, as it could've resulted in something really spectacular and intriguing. As a whole, I kind of see it as GREE's other half.

TESTMUS- Again, it felt very empty. But as for what's there, it is actually a bit dark and somewhat atmospheric. The backing, with it's distorted-y, rough sound sets up the mood, yet still falls under the problem that GREE had, with the beat not being as present as it should. The tone/sound you used for it was a good choice, and could've really made an impact if it was stronger, and had been accompanied with more of a beat. The melody was very diverse, hitting notes that could be seen as random or "poor choices". Although, that dissonance and "surprising-ness" is what really drives the mood. The dissonance gives it a kind of creepy vibe, and the fact that it jumps around like it does gives it a more chaotic nature.


TREEMUS- It's a tune that, I feel, is probably the best one of this wad. It's a lot more "full" than the others, with a prominent beat that does a few changes to keep interest while still holding to it's roots, and an again diverse melody that has more sound to it. In fact, the song all around does do a bit of different things from time to time, breaking its "repetitiveness" . I also feel that its melody is one of the best of this wad, and also a good structure. Good work on this one, though of course it can still have improvement and work to be done on it.

CLIFMUS- The second best tune of the wad. It has an interesting melody and a very noticeable beat, as well as a more acceptable structure. The only thing about it that lets TREE take the first spot is that it's a bit more repetitive.


Overall- The thematic disadvantage that these songs have is that they are good beginnings, but can be very much built upon. They are diverse and attention-grabbing, and really breaks the mold of the usual songs that people make with 8-bit. I would label it as "avant garde" or "experimental", as though it wasn't the best of quality, it still tried different things, and was like a breath of fresh air in the famitracker scene. All these songs need is more to them, to fill them with more of the sound and structure that they need. If done so, I feel these tunes could really have promise.


3/5

Ranking:
TREEMUS
CLIFMUS
KAVEMUS
TESTMUS
GREEMUS
FMPBOSS
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Clayton on February 13, 2012, 11:54:19 PM
Can't believe people enjoy my music, that makes me happy ^w^
 
don't worry guys, next map pack will have even greater songs!

if any suggestions on any songs you would like me to remake into 8-bit, post it and i'll see if it is good
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 14, 2012, 12:06:23 AM
This space had purpose but I deleted it.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Nostalgia on February 14, 2012, 02:06:12 AM
Quote from: "MegaLAD1514"
Can't believe people enjoy my music, that makes me happy ^w^
I'm certain that most of the people that commented here were using sarcasm, although I do happen to enjoy these songs simply because of their... uh, interesting composition.
Perhaps you should take this test (http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/tunetest/Pages/Default.aspx) to see if you could improve.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 14, 2012, 02:17:14 AM
i scored a 25, and i didnt know half of the tunes.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: MusashiAA on February 14, 2012, 02:22:44 AM
Quote
You correctly identified 26 tunes (out of 26) on the Distorted Tunes Test. Congratulations! You have a fine sense of pitch.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 14, 2012, 02:29:35 AM
(click to show/hide)

Do not worry, from constant requests, I will be surely reducing size.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: LlamaHombre on February 14, 2012, 02:29:57 AM
Quote
You correctly identified 25 tunes (out of 26) on the Distorted Tunes Test. Congratulations! You have a fine sense of pitch.




I do feel as if the music in this pack leaves something to be desired for, though.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Mr. X on February 14, 2012, 03:43:30 AM
Here's my thought on the maps.  I'm writing this as I play them.

FMP01
-As others have said, the map is absolutely gigantic.  However, what is an even bigger problem is that it's also extremely open.  In the largest areas, there's little to no cover and barely any elevation changes.
-The map has absolutely no coherent theme.  One minute you're in a cliff, the next a forest, and the next a castle.
-The only thing more confused than the map theme is the music which feels like a bunch of random songs smashed together to the beat of a 500 pound horse stomping along.
-The map is linear.  There's only one way from the cliffs to the jungle which is Rush Coil.  Thus, the map is essentially a giant one way highway which is extremely poor for any game mode.

FMP02
-There's some crazy texture glitches at the top of the outside of the castle.
-There's so many long hallways without cover.  Basically, someone can just stand at one end and hold firing to get kills with relative ease.
-The map is again extremely linear although at least there's ways to go backwards and forwards along the main path and not one direction only.
-The music sounds like something jolly that goes horribly out of tune.
-The teleporters are unnecessary.

FMP03
-The tree is one of the most campiest spots I've seen in a map.  There's only one fairly slow way up that's easy to shoot down in OpenGL.
-The inside of the base and treehouse are hard on the eyes due to the ugly texture spam.
-The actual layout of the base actually isn't too bad.  Sure it's not that amazing but at least it's better than wide open and complete lacking of cover.
-The music is probably the best in the pack but still feels like it's lacking something.

FMP04
-The ladders...oh the ladders...It takes about 33 seconds to get from the bottom to the top.  It should almost never take 33 seconds to get anywhere in any deathmatch map ever.  Even in Mr. X's Fortress, I could get from one end of the entire map to the other in under 20 seconds.
-Honestly, there is nothing decent about this map at all.  It takes all of the problems of the other maps and adds more (random buildings, giant ladder climb, awful music).

FMP05
-Look, I believe most people involved in mapping know I hate Fighter X music.  However, that's more of a disagreement on taste:  They're good at what they do, but it's just not my cup of tea at all.  I say "I want to reach for my music binds" when hearing their songs but I never actually do.  However, I can honestly say this is the first time I actually have almost immediately reached for my music binds in a level.  The music is one small step above Crazy Bus.  I tried to be nice but I really can't say this in a nice way:  this music honestly makes me think you are tone deaf.  I do not mean that as an insult:  I truly think you might be and taking the test posted earlier is the best way to find out.
-The map is a giant snaking line.  It really is linear.  It's unsuitable for any kind of battle.
-The texture choices are rather hard on the eyes in the hallways.


Closing Remarks
Sit down and take a good long look at other people's maps.  Play MM8BDM lots online.  What annoys you about certain maps?  What do you like about certain maps?  Honestly, these are very very poor maps and one way to get better is to see what other people did right.  This should help you see what you did wrong and improve on it.

Oh, and I scored 26 out of 26.   Woo!
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 14, 2012, 04:21:05 AM
fyone, take a look at my first map. it could help maybe. :L (ill be adding more shortly too, once this third one finishes up then ill add 2 more to the pack)
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 14, 2012, 08:29:46 PM
Quote
You correctly identified 26 tunes (out of 26) on the Distorted Tunes Test. Congratulations! You have a fine sense of pitch.
That test was the easiest thing I've ever seen.

Anyways, I need to know exactly in more detail what is wrong with FMP05 - Dr. Cossack's Test Factory so that I can fix it. I've already finished fixing the rest of the maps so I need to know what's wrong with that map in particular.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Mr. X on February 14, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
It's a line.  It's completely linear.  Linear levels don't work in any deathmatch game.  Honestly, I'd scrap it and start over.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Nostalgia on February 14, 2012, 09:40:43 PM
Quote from: "Fyone"
Quote
You correctly identified 26 tunes (out of 26) on the Distorted Tunes Test. Congratulations! You have a fine sense of pitch.
That test was the easiest thing I've ever seen.

Anyways, I need to know exactly in more detail what is wrong with FMP05 - Dr. Cossack's Test Factory so that I can fix it. I've already finished fixing the rest of the maps so I need to know what's wrong with that map in particular.
I should've made myself more clear that I was directing this test towards Lad due to the fact that he made the music.
Wait a minute: if you scored a 26, then why don't you compose the music instead?
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 14, 2012, 09:48:42 PM
I could try making a song I guess I'll post it once I'm done.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Fyone on February 15, 2012, 08:23:04 PM
Quote from: "Mr. X"
It's a line.  It's completely linear.  Linear levels don't work in any deathmatch game.  Honestly, I'd scrap it and start over.

I've decided not to scratch it -_-, but to fix it. I will most likely add more ways to get around and once I finish that, I will write up the changelog. I can't believe no one found any of the hidden spots in maps >_>
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release
Post by: Rozark on February 15, 2012, 08:42:10 PM
try more zig-zaggy/random patterns. especially for walls like rocks/cliffs. its hard to do this on an inside based map, but make different area floors and shaped hallways, so it isnt always the same plain rectangles.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Fyone on February 15, 2012, 10:50:55 PM
I added the changelog, although I won't release 'till Lad's done fixing the music.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Red on February 16, 2012, 12:22:05 AM
Can you please rename CLIFMUS before i go berserk?
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Fyone on February 16, 2012, 01:22:27 AM
Yes I will, don't worry  ;) . I'll probably make it CLMTMUS.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Shade Guy on February 16, 2012, 07:06:48 AM
To stop the music codes from potentially clashing and to make the music a little more organised, you could have the songs as FMPMUS1, FMPMUS2, and so on.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Fyone on February 16, 2012, 12:03:11 PM
Fine...
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Rozark on February 16, 2012, 09:51:50 PM
Quote from: "Shade Guy"
To stop the music codes from potentially clashing and to make the music a little more organised, you could have the songs as FMPMUS1, FMPMUS2, and so on.


i said something similiar to this a few pages back
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Fyone on February 16, 2012, 10:08:41 PM
yes, I know. Don't worry.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1a Release (V1B CHANGELOG)
Post by: Fyone on February 23, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
Double Post to say that v1b is released for FMP.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b Release
Post by: Fyone on February 23, 2012, 08:14:40 PM
Triple Post for the luls for bugs and fixes which are fixed on zee hotfix.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: Knux on March 13, 2012, 11:13:58 PM
FMP02's music vaguely reminds me of the one in the level of this hack:

It starts at 0:08. Maybe you should make an 8-bit rendition of that for the level... :D
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: xColdxFusionx on March 13, 2012, 11:43:55 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
FMP02's music vaguely reminds me of the one in the level of this hack:

It starts at 0:08. Maybe you should make an 8-bit rendition of that for the level... :D

That song is from somewhere else. I forget where, though.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: Gumballtoid on March 14, 2012, 12:23:37 AM
that song is from sonic 3's 2-player vs mode level, azure lake
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: Knux on March 14, 2012, 02:08:01 AM
Oh, I never paid too much attention to that mode, so I wouldn't know.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: Fyone on July 11, 2012, 10:04:04 PM
As I said to a lot of people. All the songs Lad has made are 8-bit versions of songs already created, but with his own twist  ;) . FMP03's song was probably the most Lad ever kept to the original melody though. The rest of the music you wouldn't even think it had anything to do with the base songs. See if you can guess them all.

And, I don't think Lad got any of his music ideas from Sonic.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP v1b-HOTFIX Release
Post by: Fyone on July 11, 2012, 10:04:31 PM
Bumped for stuff. opinion.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP
Post by: Davregis on July 24, 2012, 09:01:10 PM
Bumped for host more.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP
Post by: Knux on January 31, 2013, 08:06:56 PM
Dude, Fyone. The sooner you post pics and do beta tests, the sooner you'll get feedback. Yeah necro post, whatever.

I myself am wondering what you've done until now, seeing as the time when you made glitchy stuff was quite a few months ago. Not saying you do now too, but that's up for debate.  :geek:  Speaking of glitches, KCTF in Software aaaaaa

EDIT: What the fuck is up with the date!? I didn't post here recently!
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Fyone on January 31, 2013, 08:07:22 PM
Bumped: Check first page for screenshots...
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Rozark on January 31, 2013, 11:47:46 PM
These appear to certainly be an improvement over the last pack. I'm anticipating the second map/Pirate Ship, RIP Rozpack idea. It looks fun, can't wait to see how it is.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Colonel ServBot on January 31, 2013, 11:49:38 PM
I'm actually looking forward to the 3rd map. y'know, the boat one?
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Knux on February 03, 2013, 02:31:40 AM
My opinions based on what I see in the screenshots:

Map 01 - It looks interesting with all the foliage. That's it.
Map 02 - Gyro Attack likes places with a lot of space. There's not much of that in the map, or there doesn't appear to be. Still, a pirate ship. Now there's something that hasn't been tried before. BME doesn't count. :B
Map 03 - I see Screw Crusher lying on the floor in a small hallway. Very bad idea. Make it harder to get.
Map 04 - Appears to be somewhat bland in texture usage, but this is still in progress, right? Cool concept, by the way.
Map 05 - I'm confused. Is it supposed to be a cave with two floors? Also, a tip: use the Drill Man textures in an indoor-outdoor manner. As in, use the lighter ones as if outside, and the darker ones as if inside. Not an obligation, but it might help the map look better.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Fyone on February 03, 2013, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
My opinions based on what I see in the screenshots:

Map 01 - It looks interesting with all the foliage. That's it.
Map 02 - Gyro Attack likes places with a lot of space. There's not much of that in the map, or there doesn't appear to be. Still, a pirate ship. Now there's something that hasn't been tried before.
Map 03 - I see Screw Crusher lying on the floor in a small hallway. Very bad idea. Make it harder to get.
Map 04 - Appears to be somewhat bland in texture usage, but this is still in progress, right? Cool concept, by the way.
Map 05 - I'm confused. Is it supposed to be a cave with two floors? Also, a tip: use the Drill Man textures in an indoor-outdoor manner. As in, use the lighter ones as if outside, and the darker ones as if inside. Not an obligation, but it might help the map look better.

Map 02 - I placed Gyro Attack in this map because Gyro Attack can change direction based on height which could help in this map. (I'll test it with another player just to be sure, but that was the intention)

Map 03 - Screw Crusher isn't a good enough weapon that people would work for to get (the outside of the cave is terrible for Screw Crusher  ;)  ).

Map 04 - I tried to keep the textures to only Dr. Wily textures (MM1-3) and Wood Man textures. This map was made a while ago so I may add some more Dr. Wily textures from other games.

Map 05 - Is a cave with two floors, I used the Drill Man Textures in an indoor-outdoor manner if the scenario made sense. (i.e. For one of the screenshots I was trying to show that it was two floors, bottom floor was more covered in bright red crystal because it's deeper. The other screenshot that I did has it opposite lighter to darker for the same reasoning) This wasn't done in the majority of the map, but I did use it in some places. This map I only used Drill Man textures as well.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Knux on February 03, 2013, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: "Fyone"
Map 03 - Screw Crusher isn't a good enough weapon that people would work for to get (the outside of the cave is terrible for Screw Crusher.
I have to disagree. Screw Crusher is an area of denial weapon, and in small passages, it can be spammed to... well, DENY access. This might limit most of the fighting to the outside area (unless everyone wants to spam it in the cave).

I'm aware that KCTF03 has this problem, and it will be changed for the next version. Yeah, ironic, but true. :ugeek:
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP - Screenshots
Post by: Fyone on March 23, 2013, 04:21:25 PM
Well just to be safe, I'll take Screw Crusher out of the map all together.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Knux on March 25, 2013, 05:36:20 AM
I took some pictures of what I want to talk about, but I'm tired, so I'll just talk about them.  :ugeek: Eh, maybe some pics.

Pirate Ship - I thought it was a small, decent map to play in. You could get something other than a Wave Man background on the skybox as it might not fit with a ship that's made of wood, but that's just nitpicking.

Treehouse - You should have anti-camping weapons in the map that can be shot into the treehouse to prevent camping. Crystal Eye and Danger wrap are good options. Then there's this area:
(click to show/hide)
I didn't notice the wall teleporter for a while. Why not just make it a floor one with the same effect? It's more noticeable that way.

Cliff Mount 2 - The main problems here are the long ass hallways and platforming outside. Try to shorten the running distance as this will also make some weapons in the map worth getting. Instead of having small steps, just add stairs. It would be fine in Co-op, but this is DM, and the time it takes to platform can be a luxury sometimes. Finally, you have weapons (Ballade Cracker) that need said platforming to get, and Rush Jet in the middle. That just looks... wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the main things here are the marathon hallways.

On the plus side, it looks like a pretty damn cool concept for a map remake. It just needs some polishing.

Wily/Wood Man map - Avoid dead ends like the black plague of doom. Rush Coil at a dead end hallway just makes it all worse. Just lower that floor and add ladders or something. Speaking of having paths to get around, I suggest opening one up in here. Look where the Item 1 is:
(click to show/hide)
You also have one blue line texture spammed on the insides. Try other things! Decorate! I saw you were already trying it with the purple pipes at the entrance, and I encourage you to keep going.

I also suggest you change that music to something else for now. It sounds kinda bad, if you ask me. I looked up covers for that Power Fighters battle, but nothing appeared.

Drill Man map - The layout seems alright, but the cave area looks kind of bland. However, my main gripe is those black entrances. Why not just link the whole map? Don't worry if the hole above might not make sense. MM5CRY never did, anyway, and no one cared because it's a game and they were too busy having fun.

Overall, I say you've improved your mapping, but you still have some things to learn. The music was quite a step up from FMP1, but there's some room for improvement there as well. I'm no composer though, so I'll let someone else critique that more in depth.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Rozark on March 25, 2013, 03:12:26 PM
Short but Sweet: Overall you've improved your mapping skills, but these maps still look.. off. Each map poses its own set of problems that could take a few tweaks and it would be playable. Read that sentence twice.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Fyone on March 25, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
I took some pictures of what I want to talk about, but I'm tired, so I'll just talk about them.  :ugeek: Eh, maybe some pics.

Pirate Ship - I thought it was a small, decent map to play in. You could get something other than a Wave Man background on the skybox as it might not fit with a ship that's made of wood, but that's just nitpicking.

:I

Treehouse - You should have anti-camping weapons in the map that can be shot into the treehouse to prevent camping. Crystal Eye and Danger wrap are good options. Then there's this area:
(click to show/hide)
^ Already fixed in the next version.

I didn't notice the wall teleporter for a while. Why not just make it a floor one with the same effect? It's more noticeable that way.

I don't think it is possible to make floating floor teleporters so I did a wall one. If you know how let me know.

Cliff Mount 2 - The main problems here are the long ass hallways and platforming outside. Try to shorten the running distance as this will also make some weapons in the map worth getting. Instead of having small steps, just add stairs. It would be fine in Co-op, but this is DM, and the time it takes to platform can be a luxury sometimes. Finally, you have weapons (Ballade Cracker) that need said platforming to get, and Rush Jet in the middle. That just looks... wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the main things here are the marathon hallways.

I will add stairs for the small steps but the big steps I will keep. The long hallways inside the cave are already fixed, the hallways outside I simply shortened the distance a bit. The platforming I put in the map were only to add shortcuts or to acquire good weapons. The Rush Jet will be moved to a harder to reach area I don't how I put the Rush Jet in the middle <_> tbh

On the plus side, it looks like a pretty damn cool concept for a map remake. It just needs some polishing.

Wily/Wood Man map - Avoid dead ends like the black plague of doom. Rush Coil at a dead end hallway just makes it all worse. Just lower that floor and add ladders or something. Speaking of having paths to get around, I suggest opening one up in here. Look where the Item 1 is:
(click to show/hide)
You also have one blue line texture spammed on the insides. Try other things! Decorate! I saw you were already trying it with the purple pipes at the entrance, and I encourage you to keep going.

^ Already fixed in the next version

I also suggest you change that music to something else for now. It sounds kinda bad, if you ask me. I looked up covers for that Power Fighters battle, but nothing appeared.

Because this song used a different style (i.e. Less instruments, echo) Some people liked this song more than the others but some thought it was the worst as well. I was going to expand on the song but I actually lost the original ftm file.

Drill Man map - The layout seems alright, but the cave area looks kind of bland. However, my main gripe is those black entrances. Why not just link the whole map? Don't worry if the hole above might not make sense. MM5CRY never did, anyway, and no one cared because it's a game and they were too busy having fun.

I would link the whole map if I could but if I were to, it would require lots of 3D floo- Actually I will do it in the next version... . I know that MM5CRY never made sense but I don't see how my map would not make sense if it was linked unless you when you say link you mean something else?

Overall, I say you've improved your mapping, but you still have some things to learn. The music was quite a step up from FMP1, but there's some room for improvement there as well. I'm no composer though, so I'll let someone else critique that more in depth.

Thanks for the feedback.

@Rozark: Are you implying that these maps are unplayable? Not sure what you mean by "set of problems". And I don't see why you want me to read the sentence twice. Please elaborate.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Rozark on March 25, 2013, 11:34:18 PM
Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Fyone on March 26, 2013, 07:06:31 PM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Rozark on March 27, 2013, 12:00:18 AM
Quote from: "Fyone"
Quote from: "Rozark"
Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.
It feels like Hotel Gumballtoid. A great map, but it isn't great for DM.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.
This should tell you that your layout for this map doesn't feel right. I told it to you bluntly twice now.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.
The map is only smaller because that cave thing? is gone. Sure, you might've shrunk one side, but you wrapped that portion around the entire map, making it the same size if not bigger than the last version. This map is still too huge.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.
Too much space, not enough filler. No, random filler won't count. The interior is just awkward, while the exterior (forest area) appears fine? :I

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.
Amazing story. Anywho, go look at MM5CRY and learn how to make "Transitioning Floors". It probably feels awkward because of all the unneeded filler/ammo placements/weapon placements/unneeded diagonals on the pointless filler.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.
Some of this red is simply myself restating what i've already said. I put the note "Read twice" for a reason. :I
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Fyone on March 27, 2013, 11:09:33 PM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Quote from: "Fyone"
Quote from: "Rozark"
Oh so elaboration ok.

So we have a pirate ship. It's fancy neat and all but it just doesn't work for DM (The general game mode that ALL yep ctf mappers too mappers should strive for) somehow. The music also feels unfitting, I was expecting GankPlank Galleon or something from DKC.

You need to tell me what exactly makes it unworthy for DM so I can fix it.
It feels like Hotel Gumballtoid. A great map, but it isn't great for DM.
Hotel GBT has large hallways, wide-open swimming pool, cramped rooms, cramped bathrooms, and wide-open parking; I don't see how that's like my map.

So we have two caves with a giant river in the middle. This layout doesn't feel right, the long sides to go to a bridge don't feel right, this entire map just doesn't feel right. However, some of the aesthetics on the sides are quite impressive.

Yet again this tells me nothing but your feeling for maps. The long sides will be shortened in the next version.
This should tell you that your layout for this map doesn't feel right. I told it to you bluntly twice now.
Well, feels good to me. You need to give me an explanation why it doesn't feel right.

Then there's this Clubhouse. No. Just no. This map is waaaaaaaaay too huge, and that Clubhouse is still a prime target for camping. Fairly bland hallways. Also, this map has no skybox. Like before, this map has impressive aesthetics in some areas, not all areas. Oh, did I mention that this map was big. Oh right, -slap-. That is me "Pimpslapping" you, I'm using a variation of this song for my pack.

The outside (where the treehouse is) I will shrink once I figure a good way to shrink it (probably not in time for the next version). The overall map is smaller than the last, but ok. I won't be changing the song anytime soon since it took me awhile to make it, but I'll see if I can change it later on so we don't use the same music.
The map is only smaller because that cave thing? is gone. Sure, you might've shrunk one side, but you wrapped that portion around the entire map, making it the same size if not bigger than the last version. This map is still too huge.
There was never a cave thing in the old map, I believe you're mixing it up with something else. And again this map is smaller than the previous so unless you're saying you want me to shrink the other one too.

Then There's Clubhouse MKII: The Wily Tales. Overly Bland and huge Interior rooms. There's a rush coil at a dead end, and ask you: Why? Just why? The exterior boasts fancy aesthetics in some areas, again. However, like the rest of this map, it's too huge. Tone the interior down abit.

Please point out the huge interior rooms because I couldn't find any seemingly huge rooms  :? . Rush Coil fixed in next version already, with the textures I wanted to work with I don't really think I could make the exterior any more appealing unless you have a suggestion? This map is again smaller than some of my other maps in this pack. I will actually be toning it up a bit in the next version for better flow.
Too much space, not enough filler. No, random filler won't count. The interior is just awkward, while the exterior (forest area) appears fine? :I
Please explain what you mean by "random filler". Also, in the next version the interior room with the H. Knuckle will have more variety in the ground leveling.

Lastly is 4MIDRI LOL this Drillman map. Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense, and these aesthetics feel awkward. This whole map feels awkward, and I wonder why.

The map was never intended to be for the MI pack, but instead a stone/drill/guts mix I just sent it as show of work improvement, I changed it later because the textures clashed; so no Please explain how the floors to the drop below make no sense (also Knux meant MM5CRY made no sense unless I read it wrong  :? ). I wonder why it feels awkward as well because I can't focus on your feelings >_>.
Amazing story. Anywho, go look at MM5CRY and learn how to make "Transitioning Floors". It probably feels awkward because of all the unneeded filler/ammo placements/weapon placements/unneeded diagonals on the pointless filler.
Please explain what you mean by "Transitioning Floors" and MM5CRY is camping-mania; what would I learn from that? Can you give me an example of what you mean by "pointless filler"? And I also need to know where is the unneeded ammo, weapons, etc.

Read that twice if needed, I did provide my criticism and/or constructive feedback. "Take it with a grain of salt", but this map pack could still use improving. Again, you've overall improved as a mapper, but this is just... ehh... :I

Thanks for the feedback.
Some of this red is simply myself restating what i've already said. I put the note "Read twice" for a reason. :I
You seem to miss the point of what I said, you didn't explain your feelings much better from last time either. Please don't restate again saying "I don't like the 'feeling', too 'awkward'" Give me reasons and an explanation why you feel that way.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Rozark on March 28, 2013, 12:11:44 AM
Fyone, I'm not repeating myself a third time. (Fourth if you count Knux's thing on MM5CRYSOMEMORE) At this point it's just ignorance.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Fyone on March 28, 2013, 12:14:35 AM
I never asked you to repeat in the first place:

Quote from: "Fyone"
You seem to miss the point of what I said, you didn't explain your feelings much better from last time either. Please don't restate again saying "I don't like the 'feeling', too 'awkward'" Give me reasons and an explanation why you feel that way.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Knux on March 28, 2013, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Knux already stated that the floors to the drop below don't make sense
No. What I said was that they don't need to make sense if the map was linked together, because it's a game.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Rozark on March 28, 2013, 12:17:34 AM
Still, the floors being regular colored or whatever they are now are just confusing.
Title: 6.2/10 would consider hosting
Post by: Mendez on March 28, 2013, 01:13:35 AM
The map pack as a whole is plagued by the same three problems:
-Poor weapon layout
-An excess of health pickups
-Long, narrow corridors with hardly any attention to detail
I can send you 10-20 screenshots that highlight these problems, but I think you should be able to see the problems on your own. This map pack is definitely better than the original, although it looks like you could have taken more time to refine each stage. For now, though, it's best to focus on addressing these three important issues and get a second version out to show that you can improve. As for the music, I think that it's decent, but nothing special. Maybe you can use stuff from famicompo or youtube chiptune artists to make the map pack sound more impressive.
Title: Re: 6.2/10 would consider hosting
Post by: Fyone on March 28, 2013, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: "Mendez"
The map pack as a whole is plagued by the same three problems:
-Poor weapon layout
I don't really see any problem with weapon layout but it could just be my poor weapon taste; can you give me some examples of places with poor weapon layout that'll help me get the just of it.
-An excess of health pickups
Yes, I will be decreasing the health and ammo pickups in the next version.
-Long, narrow corridors with hardly any attention to detail
I found this a problem as well. In the next version I'll definitely try to tone up the layouts for better flow so they aren't just long corridors and I'll also try to put more detail but I won't be putting unneeded detailing in some areas.

Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Knux on April 03, 2013, 08:46:38 PM
Hey Fyone, I was going to suggest that you could have windows on the treehouse. Then, you could add springs/Thunder Claw pegs to get up there too, in case the stairs aren't an option. By the way, in Cliff Mount 2, the music doesn't fit much with a day background in the skybox. Maybe aim for something darker? That's what I thought, anyway.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1a)
Post by: Fyone on May 05, 2013, 05:19:20 PM
Yeah, I was going to change the skybox to something darker in the next version. Thanks, I'll add windows and put probably springs since I'm adding ThunderClaw pegs to the pirate ship map.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1b)
Post by: Knux on May 16, 2013, 07:22:18 PM
- Well, at least you got rid of the dead ends in the Wily/Wood Man map. Still could use less plain wall textures, as in, actual decoration. Did you know that decors also help the player tell where they're going once they've seen the whole map? They're not just there to look pretty.

- Thunder Claw in the forest map isn't so special that you need to have only one in the map and hide it up in the building. And even when you get it, chain swinging is still terribly hard because of their placements. It makes just going up the treehouse ladder all the more worth it. And the, the Thunder Claw room has a teleporter to the treehouse. Pretty much a slap in the face for anyone patient enough to look for Thunder Claw.

- Cliff Mount still has the long hallways. Yeah, I've said enough about it.

- The ship map seems fine for small games. I don't see much problems with it, really.

- The Drill Man map could use work on the cave section (the one without the white walls), although I'm not sure what to say. It feels somewhat bland.

I did expect one or two new maps, though. Are you planning on making more?
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1b)
Post by: Fyone on May 17, 2013, 09:41:42 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
- Well, at least you got rid of the dead ends in the Wily/Wood Man map. Still could use less plain wall textures, as in, actual decoration. Did you know that decors also help the player tell where they're going once they've seen the whole map? They're not just there to look pretty.

Yeah I'll try to add detail little by little each version with all of the maps.

- Thunder Claw in the forest map isn't so special that you need to have only one in the map and hide it up in the building. And even when you get it, chain swinging is still terribly hard because of their placements. It makes just going up the treehouse ladder all the more worth it. And the, the Thunder Claw room has a teleporter to the treehouse. Pretty much a slap in the face for anyone patient enough to look for Thunder Claw.

Yeah I'll move it and add some, I don't see anything wrong with the placements though.

- Cliff Mount still has the long hallways. Yeah, I've said enough about it.

Yeah as I'm still trying to fix the layout but it'll take me some time.

- The ship map seems fine for small games. I don't see much problems with it, really.

- The Drill Man map could use work on the cave section (the one without the white walls), although I'm not sure what to say. It feels somewhat bland.

Well I'm not exactly sure in what way?

I did expect one or two new maps, though. Are you planning on making more?

Yeah more will come, I'm pretty busy with other things actually.
Title: Re: [Map Pack] FMP2 (v1b)
Post by: Knux on May 22, 2013, 01:59:45 PM
Just remember that when someone tells you something is wrong with a map (or anything you've made), and you don't see it, you need to separate yourself from your work and look at it as if you weren't the one who made it. That will allow you to view things more clearly and make more accurate judgments. I'm actually doing changes to KCTF based on this and... hot damn, does it need them.