Cutstuff Forum

Gaming => The Ghoul's Forest => Topic started by: CutmanMike on June 10, 2010, 09:07:00 AM

Title: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 10, 2010, 09:07:00 AM
Okay I've neglected the GVH crowd long enough, it's time for an update. But I haven't been in the loop lately so any bugs I'm not aware of, you need to tell me now. I am also happy to change any maps, change a few things around etc so let me know of any requests you have.

Here's a list of stuff I need to do.

Stuff I'd like to do but might not yet.

I will be playing it today to see what else bugs me and what not. I will also check out Blox's GVH version and see what I like about it that I think could work in GVH.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 10, 2010, 10:37:11 AM
Creeper ball jumping?

Oh and a GVH patch that replaces the Cyborg, Sjas and Jitterskull sprites. So that only Cyborgs and Jitterskulls eyes change colour rather than the whole thing. Sjas can stay black + red.

I'm tired of camping black Sjas than hide in the air. I'd rather to be able to see them slightly.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 10, 2010, 10:38:59 AM
Didn't you make a patch that disallowed color changing sprites that worked?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Teej on June 10, 2010, 10:44:25 AM
Remove Jitterskulls ability to "climb" on top on stuff when he attacks. People really take advantage of this.   :(

It's almost as bad as...

Quote
...camping black Sjas in the air.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 10, 2010, 02:38:25 PM
Well hey! Its one of the few ways for a Jitterskull to get away after a miss! You'd be suprised (and pissed off) at the amount of times you get hit while missing if you're ever playing Jitter, especially missing while in the range of a marine that GUARANTEES a hp loss if not death. Lightning arrows and Ghostbuster's railgun hurt like hell too.

In short its all fair that he can do that. Though i'd wish he had some bullet resistance at times... Or possibily healing a little hp after eating(with little, i mean like 20-30), considering he got nerfed quite alot. Meh, just a suggestion that might give some heart attacks, suicide reports, hate mail, real life threats, etc. :P

Hmm... I cant think of much else at the moment. And i hope the changes in my map are acceptable, like the camera? It doesnt lag as long as its not, uh, opened. Feel free to remove a few sparks if needed though. The steam is there as an tactical element though, making creepers hard to hear, can be enabled and disabled. The console should be far more... easier to understand now. :P

EDIT: Seperate weapons for TeamDM huh? Interesting, it might be needed considering the ghouls can rape massively with infinite respawns, thus breaching through any defence eventually. Mind you victory remains heavily map dependant, so this should be done with care. This might help with some abused elements in TeamDM though, not sure about the ghoul side, but the Marine can just spam grenades for mass destruction if he dies often.

Oh, someone also suggested a ball-jump. Not sure if you're ever considering it, but i still find Creeper rather limited regarding his movement. This would help, even if he cant attack a moment after using it (like Cyborg dash).
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 10, 2010, 02:44:07 PM
See my comments about the map in the map submission thread.

I did actually consider that for Jitterskull ages ago but there's no way to toggle on and off that strange walk over walls effect he has. If I changed it now I think it would be awkward for Jitter players to get used to it, so I'll leave it as it is.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 10, 2010, 02:51:18 PM
I guess you mean that floor clipping flag thing that relentlessly keeps him on the ground, yeah, would be odd without all that. Not to mention charging also might help in getting around faster to intercept a human on an obvious route.

And i noticed that post and made a post there as well. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 10, 2010, 02:54:34 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Didn't you make a patch that disallowed color changing sprites that worked?
Uhh... yeah but I didn't release it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 10, 2010, 02:56:22 PM
Unleash it you beast! I'll put it on my blog.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 10, 2010, 02:56:49 PM
Quote from: "Teej"
It's almost as bad as...

Quote
...camping black Sjas in the air.
Hey, I don't mind camping Sjas. I just hate it when they change their colour and get free frags for being completely invisible.


Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Unleash it you beast! I'll put it on my blog.
Fine. I'll perfect it then release it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on June 10, 2010, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
..I will also check out Blox's GVH version and see what I like about it that I think could work in GVH.

D:

The only decent things are ghouls getting health per Pain.Jitter state. And Jitterskull recovering health while eating. (It's not really Pain.Jitter in the mod, but it's what it does anyway.)

But both of those only come in handy when playing TLMS, as in TDM you always have another chance.

GOOD LOCK.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 10, 2010, 09:02:20 PM
Well, i'd put it in the other topic but i'd hate to double post so i'll just put it here.
Since i was kinda bored i edited the map myself somewhat and i guess it should be good now. The camera's gone and the console now only does the fire (no big deal lag-wise) and steam (not laggy either, just noisy :P).
I even renamed it to GVH31 and such, gave it a quick scan and seems all fine. Though did add a little structure out of boredom, i couldnt resist. :P

Zip and Wad file are still named GVHLM, but its contents is renamed into GVH31 and stuff like that.
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22900177/GVHLMv3.zip (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/22900177/GVHLMv3.zip)

As for being somewhat on-topic, i wouldnt say no to a bit of extra health when Jitter's eating his long, long lunch. And if that's overpowered, how about he only heals when he doesnt move while eating, if that's possible.
I guess this would help surviving somewhat more humans, as missing tends to hurt.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Teej on June 10, 2010, 10:43:57 PM
If Jitterskull gets a small health boost when eating, then maybe Choke should too? But make Choke's smaller...

And I see your point CarThief, Jitterskulls climb ability does help you get away after a miss, but majority of the time I see people abusing it...

Quote
I'll leave it as it is.


It's not getting changed anyway. But that's just my experience, don't think I've ever played any of you guys online!

Erm, maybe give other classes an "inventory" ability, like Cyborgs jetpack dash? Not sure what these could be... maybe the combat roll for Marine?  Creeper ball-jump thing? :?  I dunno, ha, ha!  :)  

O.K., question time!

How many new maps are going to be in this update? And also, when is "soon"?  :geek:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 11, 2010, 05:47:28 AM
Lightning Arrow bug so people can stop picking them up :x Sorry boss.

Choke gets health pre painstate like Blox did

That is all off the top of my head. I've been out of the loop with Gvh since the whole TDM craze.

Next time, we do test everything >:0
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Teej on June 11, 2010, 08:32:22 AM
Just thought of another request, perhaps bring back the single-player campaign?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 11, 2010, 05:15:19 PM
Quote from: "Teej"
Just thought of another request, perhaps bring back the single-player campaign?

I think the reason that won't be added to GVH is the file size of the wad. GVH is HUGE as it is, and anything additional that will be unique to this will make it 100mbs long. Cut man will probably do a separate wad just for that, but I doubt, if I am correct, it'd be in GVH specifically.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 11, 2010, 07:45:44 PM
Well, after playing and complaining worse then a old man i can state from a viewpoint of someone who plays Jitterskull, i'd prefer the use of projectiles over larger spread. I mean, hitscan is THE most powerfull tool in GVH, by own opinion, and preferabaly should be used sparingly.

A poll could work too, but all the pro's are playing marine now a days, so i doubt it'll be popular. Meh, skillless bastards, utterly relentless at making sure every single mistake harms or kills you. I can be glad that only applies to skilled people (ab)using marines.

In short, Marine > Jitterskull (not including bots). Please use projectiles.
Oh, and Cutman is the map i uploaded also acceptable? Camera's gone, console simplified, and seemingly impossible to cause lag with the current options. (Heh, would be typical of Mobius to lag people in order to annoy/kill them. If you mean that. :P)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mikk- on June 11, 2010, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "Teej"
Just thought of another request, perhaps bring back the single-player campaign?

I think the reason that won't be added to GVH is the file size of the wad. GVH is HUGE as it is, and anything additional that will be unique to this will make it 100mbs long. Cut man will probably do a separate wad just for that, but I doubt, if I am correct, it'd be in GVH specifically.

How so? To create a single player campaign you only need a few bytes, so how would it increase the filesize by double?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 11, 2010, 08:43:53 PM
I said unique to the wad. So let's say he wanted music unique to the game and different levels, Yurei sprites and all the animations that come with it then yes it will increase.

Now if he didn't want to do that and just slapped it together with the Yurei images and lumps with just her stage and recycle the GVH maps as a campaign thing then it will only be like.. 2mbs more?

This and Megaman focus.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on June 12, 2010, 08:11:52 AM
Give marine less grenades, 10 is just fucking spam.

Fix that hunter arrow bug where ghouls can pick up arrows.

Make Engineer reload his nailgun after some shots. (Its annoying as hell if your a creeper and engineer-player has precision aiming)

Make Choke gain HP when killing someone. (only choke)

Make frostbite less spammy with its breath.

Do something with creeper, he hasn't been updated in a long time.

Give marine 30 shots instead of 50, so its not all spam...

Chokes teeth seem weaker than before, change it back maybe?

Thats all I can think of ATM.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on June 12, 2010, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: "Anannyo"
...Make Choke gain HP when killing someone. (only choke)

...Give marine 30 shots instead of 50, so its not all spam

1) Gaining health per Pain state is tactically harder (and better) than getting one chunk of health from a Death state..
And the only ghoul (excluding The Creeper) that actually SHOULD get health by killing, is Ol' Uncle Jitterskull. As he has that DAMNED chewing delay.

2) If the shotgun shots are changed to FastProjectiles, this won't be necessary. As the FastProjectiles are quite evadable.. Compared to the current HITSCAN ones.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Qent on June 12, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
Remove the blocking lines around the teleporters in GVH22 or make them visible to prevent accidentally going through.

Give the machinegun a vertical spread and increase its damage slightly.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 12, 2010, 08:00:57 PM
Hmm... Never noticed those before on GVH22, but i'd rather have them stay so the teleporters atleast cant be abused beyond putting traps on them.

As for the various marine idea's/nerfs, i guess i agree it doesnt need less ammo if the projectile idea gets (hopefully!) used. Machinegun might do with a little improvement anyway, compared to riotgun, its nothing.
Cant say much about the grenades, they're avoidable, though in some cases 10 might be too much. I wouldnt say no to less though, for obvious reasons. :P

Gaining health while munching (with Jitterskull, after killing) would be great and it would give the delay some use. And i recall some people complained Choke was weak or something, i'm not sure if anything has been done by now. Perhaps he has more HP then last version now, but if nothing was done... No idea if he would need change.

Well, if Cutman does give Jitter some health while eating, i bet he will be bombarded by hatemail, so chances seem slim.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Qent on June 13, 2010, 04:02:51 AM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Hmm... Never noticed those before on GVH22, but i'd rather have them stay so the teleporters atleast cant be abused beyond putting traps on them.
The problem with them right now is that the blocking lines are invisible, so when I think I'm going to go alongside instead I get funneled in.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 13, 2010, 06:46:50 AM
Quote from: "Qent"
Quote from: "CarThief"
Hmm... Never noticed those before on GVH22, but i'd rather have them stay so the teleporters atleast cant be abused beyond putting traps on them.
The problem with them right now is that the blocking lines are invisible, so when I think I'm going to go alongside instead I get funneled in.

Which isn't fair to anyone to be honest, even if you think it is a deterrent to teleport camping. I don't want to accidentally get fragged because I forgot a sector has invisible linedefs.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 14, 2010, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: "Qent"
Remove the blocking lines around the teleporters in GVH22 or make them visible to prevent accidentally going through.

Hmmm? I never noticed those...

Because so many people want it, I think I will give choke health regeneration. Jitterskull can forget it though  :ugeek:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Possesed on June 14, 2010, 05:11:44 PM
Heres a neat idea, maybe when choke eats an enemie when he next uses blood ball, depending on the enemy, he will spew out a differant kind of bloodball
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 14, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Because so many people want it, I think I will give choke health regeneration. Jitterskull can forget it though  :ugeek:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 15, 2010, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Because so many people want it, I think I will give choke health regeneration. Jitterskull can forget it though  :ugeek:

Um... Read Possesed's post again :P

As for the idea, I guess that could work. Could give choke a unique edge... What do you guys think? Too gimmicky or no?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: PR3D (Backup) on June 15, 2010, 11:24:46 AM
Yes, Add it , Flying Hunter helmets and marine helmets would be cool.

Heres one for the humans : Crouch abbility only for humans

This would be great for ducking under cover or dodging frost breath, Choke blood balls  etc
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 15, 2010, 11:50:20 AM
I can consider that if you give me the sprites for all the human classes  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: PR3D (Backup) on June 15, 2010, 12:00:31 PM
Heh im afraid i cant do that just half the sprites? , That can be dealt with it
 dosent look that bad D: Please

Anyway i have a map request its from mappack might as well throw one out

http://www.filefront.com/16756669/Yay.wad

This is the cave / Caverns map its called   "Predator cave"  =3

PLease add
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 15, 2010, 12:01:27 PM
I will check it out
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: PR3D (Backup) on June 15, 2010, 12:05:51 PM
You and others should be able to remember this one. :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 15, 2010, 05:00:58 PM
I honestly expected people to go mad at yet another ghoul update/upgrade suggestion, especially seeing Cutman agree with it! I mean, humans are getting all nerfs in this version and the ghouls get all the abilities and buffs, not that i'm complaining, hehe... But... I expected some tantrums, rage, hate mail, etc.

As for the Choke bloodball idea, why not, if its not less usefull then his normal bloodball, neither much stronger, more like, suited for different situations, like the Ghostbuster's gun. He obviously doesnt need a railgun (as much as i'd love seeing humans ironically complain about hitscan), though.

And i guess GVH22 should have an obvious gimmick going on at the teleporter. As long as they cant get past it.
Crouching doesnt seem too usefull against mostly melee foes, and does nothing for Jitterskull, and just makes life harder for Creeper when he jumps OVER them. :P

Speaking of Creeper, his attack is kinda hard to hit with. Now, in GF3, if the creeper gets close to you, he absolutely WILL utterly DESTROY you with a nasty screen rape along with it. But this one? Misses easily, even easier when put on pressure, i honestly think the creeper hands can use improvement in terms of making them more lethal to approach, you get close, you get raped, no 100% safe jump over them when cornered!

One suggestion to it is that he can hold his hands up for a decent amount of time but suffers from a cooldown if doing it for a longer then usual period of time. Making it easy to catch people jumping/moving on/around you and getting multiple kills from humans close to eachother.

Edit: I wonder if people will go mad now.
Edit2: I forgot a moment about Jumping as means to dodge the creeper's attack. Not sure if that'll work out with this idea, heck, is it even meant to be able to cheat death when Creeper has you stunned? Meh, bet people will complain.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Qent on June 15, 2010, 05:19:29 PM
Creepers can reach much farther than you think. It just seems hard to hit if you have a high ping, and although it looks like the attack comes after a delay (because of the animation), it actually happens the instant you press the button.

I don't see why you'd expect rage though. Not everyone here plays only marine.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on June 15, 2010, 05:37:07 PM
Solution: Shorter range, more "punches".
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 16, 2010, 10:57:11 AM
Hmm... I never realized he had such a long range, well, i saw it a few times when a Creeper bot managed to kill someone a small distance away(they're damn accurate and DAMN lethal up close, closest thing to the GF3 Creeper).

This idea would be fair enough if the range was, uh, reasonable, i'm sure.

On a unrelated note: Funky medals, nice indeed.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 16, 2010, 11:05:21 AM
A Creeper can reach a player high up on a ledge if he aims directly up. A good example is on GVH11. There's a small ledge that humans can run across on the cinema building (that leads to a secret room with a broken tv). The Creeper can reach a human from the ground floor if he aims up, jumps and hits fire  :D
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 16, 2010, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
A Creeper can reach a player high up on a ledge if he aims directly up.
Software  :|
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 16, 2010, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Quote from: "Mobius"
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Because so many people want it, I think I will give choke health regeneration. Jitterskull can forget it though  :ugeek:

Um... Read Possesed's post again :P

Why should I? This is the only update to the choke I am willing to accept to be honest. :|
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 16, 2010, 01:09:15 PM
I thought you quoted it to point out to possessed that I already said the same thing he suggested. Nevermind  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 19, 2010, 08:24:05 PM
Well i'd say choke probaly has some use for it, he'll certainly need it if approaching an enemy thats camped in a tight spot or simply aware of his presence. In any other situation he'll have no trouble sneaking up on people, even me, due to his almost silent movement. :P

And i'd REALLY like a new version soon, having atleast ONE marine in every single game, every single map, every single situation gets extremely annoying. There's always one abusing the riotgun and it becomes even stronger with grenade spam in TDM after respawning.

Hmm... Small idea, perhaps give marine less grenades in TDM, considering he respawns and all, 10 grenades is enough to take out a whole group of ghouls before respawning. Pretty careless yet effecient tactic. Then again, the riotgun will make it hard for the marine to ever die soon. But it'd help.

Hmm... And just an observation but its only/mostly the marines inflicting massive carnage and winning the game, so i'm not sure if humans are up to par with ghouls once the nerf happens, though the riotgun is currently just way too much. Then again it'll remain pretty dependant of the map.
If all else fails buff a class that needs it, i guess?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 19, 2010, 08:40:17 PM
Not going to turn this into a debate, but what is wrong with at least one marine in every game? Afraid of a little challenge? Don't you play on selective maps and servers anyway?

Quote from: "Carthief"
Well i'd say choke probaly has some use for it, he'll certainly need it if approaching an enemy thats camped in a tight spot or simply aware of his presence. In any other situation he'll have no trouble sneaking up on people, even me, due to his almost silent movement. :P

.. God dam it Carthief. I wanted to go through this whole thread without the need to argue with you, but Christ man x_x.. don't you play as anything but a Jitter? All of that is theoretical until practice and then it isn't so easy any longer.

Also leave the grenades alone since Riot got nerfed. GVH wasn't meant to be played as TDM anyway. I don't know why they are popular though.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Qent on June 19, 2010, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
[Marines need to be nerfed].
I'm sure you'd know, since you play as a marine all the time. :)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mikk- on June 19, 2010, 11:51:01 PM
Quote from: "Mobius"
GVH wasn't meant to be played as TDM anyway..
No, no it wasn't.
GvH was made FOR TDM AND TLMS[/u]
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 20, 2010, 01:46:57 AM
Quote from: "Mikk-"
Quote from: "Mobius"
GVH wasn't meant to be played as TDM anyway..
No, no it wasn't.
GvH was made FOR TDM AND TLMS[/u]

With classes that can spam and abuse spawn constantly, I wouldn't think so. That is why it is usually under TLMS.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2010, 04:21:30 AM
Here is my suggestion:
Change the Hunter's bow with the long bow from DaggerFall. Its much more fitting (the gloves) and also looks WAY better. I think there are some DaggerFall resources on the ZDoom forums.

Trust me that long bow is NICE.
 :cool:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 20, 2010, 12:38:36 PM
Ah, marines arent a challange... They're blatantly overpowered! No matter how hard i may try, you fuck up one charge, you're one of three steps closer to waiting to respawn. And those three tries dont last long.
If you dont take the risk, you'll inevitably get hit by a combo of grenades and/or hitscan at some point, teleport dodging doesnt last forever if they're aware of the distance you travel per teleport or just throw in an area attack for good measure.

Well, i guess Jitter is the first or second worst choice to use against a marine, not that the others get it alot easier anyway.

Hmm... TDM is meant to work well, but if you ask me, it functions... differently. It all remains map related though. Reminds me of that one game with that marine in TDM... We never won... Ugh. Yeah, once the marine left/switched we started winning again.

As for the earlier mentioned class spam and abuse in TDM, nothing completely unfixable, maybe with some ACS, but that would be alot of work possibily. The ghouls and grenade spamming marines just tend to frag way more then any other person in TDM.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on June 20, 2010, 02:48:38 PM
By the way, you might want to make the BFIR/SMOK sprites a bit smaller.

Since people keep crying about GVH01 being laggy.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 21, 2010, 12:21:31 AM
Quote from: "SamVision"
Here is my suggestion:
Change the Hunter's bow with the long bow from DaggerFall. Its much more fitting (the gloves) and also looks WAY better. I think there are some DaggerFall resources on the ZDoom forums.

Trust me that long bow is NICE.
 :cool:
Make a patch yourself.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on June 21, 2010, 01:27:50 AM
But Mobius, the GvH campaign was TDM... So at some point it was meant for TDM. And CarThief, Quit bitching about marine already, His riotgun got nerfed, and since your jitter all the time, you don't really need to worry about grenades do you?

BUT I have to admit, gernades are just spam spam spam, if you're a creeper.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on June 21, 2010, 05:55:30 PM
Oh yes. We do have to worry about grenades.
Because guess what? Spam does work against jitterskulls too. Surprise surprise!

Creepers, on the other hand. Can be ninjas that can survive quite a few grenades. B)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2010, 10:14:59 PM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "SamVision"
Here is my suggestion:
Change the Hunter's bow with the long bow from DaggerFall. Its much more fitting (the gloves) and also looks WAY better. I think there are some DaggerFall resources on the ZDoom forums.

Trust me that long bow is NICE.
 :cool:
Make a patch yourself.

I tried, but I could not because of the differences in the animations. That is why I want it as an official part of GvH.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on June 21, 2010, 10:31:30 PM
Quote from: "SamVision"
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "SamVision"
Here is my suggestion:
Change the Hunter's bow with the long bow from DaggerFall. Its much more fitting (the gloves) and also looks WAY better. I think there are some DaggerFall resources on the ZDoom forums.

Trust me that long bow is NICE.
 :cool:
Make a patch yourself.

I tried, but I could not because of the differences in the animations. That is why I want it as an official part of GvH.
Edit a GVH pk3, Send in the results.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 22, 2010, 12:03:54 AM
Quote from: "Anannyo"
But Mobius, the GvH campaign was TDM... So at some point it was meant for TDM.

That was almost 2 years ago. The current game now caters more to the TLMS practice by virtue of either map design or class balance.

A choke against a human normally loses unless the human is inexperienced or blows chunks.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on June 23, 2010, 02:28:55 AM
Quote from: "Blox"
Oh yes. We do have to worry about grenades.
Because guess what? Spam does work against jitterskulls too. Surprise surprise!

Creepers, on the other hand. Can be ninjas that can survive quite a few grenades. B)
Not grenade spam, 10 grenades vs 1 creeper = death. Jitters are faster, and can dodge the grenades by biting or just moving away. creepers on the other hand aren't as tolerate to grenades as jitterskulls. Surprise surprise!
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on June 23, 2010, 04:33:51 AM
Quote from: "Anannyo"
Not grenade spam, 10 grenades vs 1 creeper = death. Jitters are faster, and can dodge the grenades by biting or just moving away. creepers on the other hand aren't as tolerate to grenades as jitterskulls. Surprise surprise!

Neither are Chokes or Sjas, but those are the less sturdier classes. I did advocate a reduction of the grenades, but Riotgun is getting a little nerf so I'd say let's play the game for a tad and gauge what we want from there.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 24, 2010, 05:33:02 PM
From observation i can say, aside it being map dependant of all the cover that's near the Creeper, the Creeper's slow speed makes him a prime target to die in one or two grenades depending on the Marine's throwing skill. Though the hitscan riotgun takes em out easily too... Meh. :P

And i hope the projectile idea will be used, for all i care it'll be stronger and act like ice arrows, but those are avoidable, atleast. Kinda like plasma, strong, but easily dodged. Then again, that wouldnt work out when they're camping in cramped spots if projectile shotgun had increased damage.

Maybe compensate it with far more machinegun ammo, people hardly ever use it, miss often, need to be very focused and that doesnt combine well with running away from impending doom, and generally weak, but good to pick off a dying ghoul. Assuming the projectile shotgun idea will not have extreme damage.
Guess the marine nerf probaly will need some testing, i'd happily apply if it's one of them private tests of the old days. Handy to see how super effecient it will be then against Jitter.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 29, 2010, 06:54:41 PM
Normally i wouldnt double-post, but i kinda found a small bug (hey, its another reason to post then to nerf the Marine :P).

I was hosting GVH in TDM and once the score reached 4-4, the TLMS epic music started playing, regardless of being in TDM.
It pretty much occured in several maps, while trying some bot matches. I'm guessing the global code/script isnt checking for the game type?

(*Awaits- err, hopes for medal*, well, if small bugs count. :P)
(The power of medals eh? Though i would report it without medal too, really! :P)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on June 30, 2010, 09:25:37 AM
Quote from: "CarThief"
I was hosting GVH in TDM and once the score reached 4-4, the TLMS epic music started playing, regardless of being in TDM.
It pretty much occured in several maps, while trying some bot matches. I'm guessing the global code/script isnt checking for the game type?

Make sure winlimit is 0 and fraglimit is something. Visa versa if you host LMS ;)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on June 30, 2010, 11:04:10 AM
Ah, i always put the winlimit on 5 for the sake of convenience, especially in wads such as GVH in order to switch from TDM to TLMS whenever needed. Guess its still slightly odd though.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on July 06, 2010, 02:52:32 PM
Deleted some shit. There's a rule on my forum which is this:

Quote
KEEP IT SANE - Unlike most forums I have little to no tolerance for retarded posts. What I mean by this is simply replying to a thread with pointless (i.e I lol'd) will result in a warn, ESPECIALLY if you just post a single picture. This isn't 4chan. Have a reason before you post, other than to humour others with stupid comments.

Allowing people to troll and have people point out that they're hilarious encourages more people to make shit posts. This will turn the community into something like the skulltag forums, which I do not want. I think I need to enforce this rule more.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on July 14, 2010, 06:06:30 PM
Go through GVH 28, and fix some of these missing textures...

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Can you make it so that in LMS or DEATMATCH gamemodes, where creepers can stun other ghouls as well? ONLY on non-team Game-modes.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on July 14, 2010, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: "Anannyo"
Can you make it so that in LMS or DEATMATCH gamemodes, where creepers can stun other ghouls as well? ONLY on non-team Game-modes.
Sjas V Jitterskull in DM... Get out.

Non team game modes are unplayable in GVH. Deal w/ it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on July 14, 2010, 07:14:03 PM
Quote from: "DoomThroughDoom"
Quote from: "Anannyo"
Can you make it so that in LMS or DEATMATCH gamemodes, where creepers can stun other ghouls as well? ONLY on non-team Game-modes.
Sjas V Jitterskull in DM... Get out.

Non team game modes are unplayable in GVH. Deal w/ it.


I said creeper. Not sjas or jitterskull. Shh. Some people like playing regular DM with GvH
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Grymmoire on July 16, 2010, 01:46:28 AM
Those people obviously need better things to do with their time. If GvH was built for non-team game modes I'd understand but since it isn't I'll say your suggestion is mute.

Solution: Play GvH in TDM/TLMS mode or play another mod.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on July 16, 2010, 01:41:52 PM
Actually... Sometimes a non-team game of Last Man Standing or Possession is also quite enjoyable with GVH, hehe... Even went as far as to make a crazy server that makes weapons drop on death, no teams, double ammo for the weapon pickups, and well, it makes for very chaotic yet not cheating-ish gameplay. Though the Jitterskull vs Sjas or Creeper matches are... predictable.

In short its not made to work effeciently with these modes, but it is made to keep these things possible. Just some odd things may happen and the whole Jitterskull vs Sjas thing.

Hmm... And when are there going to be updates? Probaly some time after MM8BDM i suppose... Games will be alot more enjoyable without being hit all the time from afar by Riotguns.
Oh, i hope you got the latest(v3 or so) version of my map too, Cutman, to update the old one with? As mentioned countless times it no longer has a camera now, and only controls the steam(only noisy) and fire(not laggy).
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on July 16, 2010, 03:14:38 PM
Yes, GvH with possession is extremely fun.


Can you also make the players drop their weapons?

I know there's a dmflag for that, but the cyborg arm, and all ghoul weapons vanish a split second after its dropped. And I mean ghost-busters zapper drops. Why can't other weapons drop when the  "Drop Weapons" DM flag is ON. So, then it should be up to the server to have it on or not...

Shouldn't it be a really easy thing to do?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on July 16, 2010, 04:57:01 PM
Hehe... Good memories from last time... Many various classes, running away like hell from the various sjas and humans, as well as chokes trying to speed past you. Hell, people even killed eachother WHILE chasing and attacking the stone carrier! It was pure madness! Hehe...
(I even JOINED the game as a HUMAN, to have some fun and get easy shotgun kills on my own server with low ping, hehe...)

Hmm... Would be nice(but rather hard to expect) for Cutman to make the weapons lasting invisible drops just because it might make for more amusing sort-of-cheat-servers that purposefully have such chaotic gameplay.

Oh, if GVH possession and the likes becomes really popular i wouldnt mind hosting it, i guess. :P

Edit: The weapons in GVH can be picked up if you happen to touch it at the moment it is dropped (like, you're really close to the victim), if the weapons drop on death flag is enabled. Its a very picky system though.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on July 30, 2010, 05:12:54 AM
Hidden cutmanmike heads in every level anyone? I can think of good hiding places for each level :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on July 31, 2010, 06:48:38 PM
Ok I've done everything I need to (on the first page). Anything else you'd like to happen, now is the time to say.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on July 31, 2010, 07:03:38 PM
Ah, i noticed the noisy steam spawners for whatever reason dont work on my new or old version of my map, i think i'll need to edit it a little and put up a new one.
The problem is that they do not seem to work at all, maybe a shared decorate number or for whatever reason it got overwritten. I dont know, hmm...

And a random request, maybe it would be funky if all the weapons stayed on the ground for while if they where spawned/dropped. Just requesting this for occasional crazy possession/LMS etc matches i sometimes host and its simply awesome and insane/crazy when people get other people's weapons regardless of class, like creeper with Jitterskull teeth, heh, insane.

Well, whatever weapons disappear in miliseconds, if those stuck around longer, i'd be happy. As long as it does not affect normal TLMS/TDM, etc, when the weapons drop on death flag is not active. :P

EDIT: Made an v4. This one had an rather foiled attemp at fixing the steam not appearing issue. It only appears offline, not when i'm hosting this. Aside that the doors now stay open unless told otherwhise, may that be more breathing room.
Cant really think of a way to get past the steam problem, so i'll just throw it here as is. If you can fix it i'd be very happy if you would.

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23608379/GVHLMv4.zip (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/23608379/GVHLMv4.zip)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anannyo on July 31, 2010, 09:33:30 PM
Does that mean campaign is fixed and we can do Yurei fights online again?

PS. Yurei is broken in ghoul3, so is the campfire.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on July 31, 2010, 11:27:38 PM
No I won't be adding the campaign or Yurei fight back yet. Online play is my focus atm.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 01, 2010, 03:16:45 AM
Hmm... Apparently Ammar kinda felt like showing me a interesting glitch regarding the Ghostbuster traps.

He apparently detonated them and then immediatly spectated and the traps started to kill humans as well. Not exactly a commonly used thing, but perhaps nice to know, if anything can be done. :P
Havent tried to recreate the glitch myself though. Surely did see it happen and kill a human.

Hmm... Hope the update is soon...
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: ChokeFan1992 on August 01, 2010, 03:53:31 AM
Well, I notice on the urban map, if you are human and stand behind the couch and the door, you get blocked in and can't get out. Not a big problem :P but could do with little edit?

(click to show/hide)


Also on R_rr's boat map, I think that the texture around which is suppose to be sky should be set so decals and splats can't appear on it, because it looks like your trapped inside a box when you can see bullet holes againts it.


Lastly,just for little hidden bonus, maybe if you set your gender to other on Marine you get the doom64 marine sounds :P.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 01, 2010, 01:59:27 PM
I'm taking out all the steam stuff out of Carthief's map. My reasoning is this: Do IDDT twice and look at the map. Now think of users who can't even run Rust or DTD's map (fixed version) without a little FPS drop.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on August 01, 2010, 03:11:42 PM
This, perhaps?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 01, 2010, 03:17:02 PM
I think Ice is one of the best ways to deal with a frost bite though, as they're usually rushing towards you going 'nom
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 01, 2010, 08:31:36 PM
Hmm... Very well i guess, the steam didnt feel like working anyway.
And i do hope this update will be soon! Even Frits is using marine and even called the Hunter useless and preferred Marine instead! EVEN HIM!

I guess its that riotgun alright, along with the free all-purpose grenades. The hitscan is the larger threat, though. What nerf is going to be used anyway? They all do it for the instantaneous damage that goes over long range, making it a projectile would be nice in my view. If they want long-range damage the machinegun and lightning arrows do well, or if they earn themselves a bone cannon.

And he claimed Sjas to be overpowered as well. Cant say Sjas isnt powerfull, though not long lasting if they dont prove their agility in dodging shots. Atleast they're not complaining about Jitterskull, he's nerfed to the ground anyway.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 01, 2010, 08:52:55 PM
i request sjas nerfy! he's much more op than the riotgun.
And yes the hunter is useless, sure you can get a one hit kill with ice and fire but there is more luck than skill involved.
ah well engineer is the next most op ;D

btw why are basing yourself on balance in TDM, TLMS is the way it's supposed to be played.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 01, 2010, 09:04:06 PM
I hope Frits just didn't imply that Sjas is more OP than marine.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 01, 2010, 09:35:45 PM
I did not mention TLMS or TDM. Though naturally, TDM is pretty ghoul orientated, mindless slaughter without fear of death, with an force that will penetrate almost every camping barrier, they're far more agressive in TDM, too.
Edit: Because death is merely an inconvenience, many find it more fun! Instead of getting instaraped by some overpowered class, or die in a stupid way, to lose or wait for a round. Its just no fun!

Its all up to the people how they wanna play it, lately TDM has been gaining massive popularity. The humans always come back, although maybe its just because all the players went to the TDM server... Ah well, not my care, i like TDM.

Hmm... A Sjas nerf... Meh, Jitter got nerfed to the ground, Creepers never where exceptional, Chokes actually need buffs/get buffs, and Frostbite is pretty... Normal. I guess Sjas kinda stands out, but not as much as the marine does among the humans. So i'm not sure if a nerf is truly needed.
And else a small one might do it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 01, 2010, 11:26:08 PM
I have made it so you now have to be EVEN CLOSER to 1HKO with sjas
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 01, 2010, 11:48:14 PM
Hmm... That would go perfectly into comination with the riotguns shooting fast projectiles. Besides that they always where a little good with taking down targets under them. Maybe that this makes them a little harder yet rewarding. Well, hopefully not useless in any case.

Wonder if anyone is going to throw around any more nerf requests. I think we reached the point of balance by now. People dont instantly fall over and die when looked upon by a marine, hunter arrows pay off but require skill, Engineer's powerfull steam cannon has very limited ammo, Ghostbuster has to earn his upgrades and even then may die easily, and the Cyborg never really needed a nerf seemingly.

Hmm... Not much needed regarding the ghouls either. Creeper needs to be tactical or get blown up, Jitterskull is nerfed to the ground, Choke will enjoy his well needed buff, Frostbite seemed right from the start, and Sjas apparently gets nerfed.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 02, 2010, 08:15:34 AM
Quote from: "Mobius"
I hope Frits just didn't imply that Sjas is more OP than marine.

give me a list of how many people dominate as a marine, it's not even half as big as the list of people who can kill an entire server with sjas. And CT unless you got autoam, creepers are hard to kill with a shotgun.

And please dont change it to fast projectiles, hitscan is the only thing i got when i play on an american server thank you.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 02, 2010, 09:26:32 AM
They're still hitscans, but the riot gun has a wider spread. I'll post a list of changes when it's out, but I still don't feel like it's worthy of a new release yet. This is the only time I've felt where GVH doesn't need an update. I think I need more maps  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 02, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
would you buff the hunter a bit? making him faster when he's got an arrow loaded would help a lot.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 02:19:27 PM
Gah, you're trying to overpower the humans again? Seriously give them some power and they WILL all jump on it and abuse it!

And currently, all the skilled human players do EXELLENTLY with a Marine, what is... 6 to 10 or more people possibily. Imagine just 2 or 3 in one game, they would most certainly win (though you're always Marine, not like you know much about it seemingly). Regardless of that, its is about the CLASS, how well it does at its fullest potential, or well, assuming the player is good at it, that at the very least.

And the spread better be pretty significant for a shotgun, its absolutely dreadfull to go merrily after something/someone and suddenly, BOOM, DEAD, not by lightning, but a shotgun! Cant even see it coming or see who fired it.
Shotguns aint a sniping weapon, railguns are! And possibily the marine's other weapons.

Hmm... Not worthy of a release? Meh, it has been lacking maps indeed. Maybe a post on the website will attract more mappers. As for the hunter idea, why? He was nerfed like this in the first place to make him not too much of a GOD running around, away, and shooting with some of the strongest projectiles and variation of weapons ever!
He needed A weak point, now he got one! Being careless with the shooting delay (aside the normal arrow that never gets used) is lethal now! So far for being invincible by running away now. As for his weapons they're fine if properly used.

Edit: How wide is the spread anyway? Hopefully its not so extremely usefull now on the larger distances. Maybe a screenshot? Do remember, people DO it for the HITSCAN, if that is still effecient, they absolutely WILL keep trying to (ab)use it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 02, 2010, 02:21:33 PM
Technically the Hunter has always had that "weak point" of slowing down to fire. I already made a post on my website about maps, and whenever I go into a game I get people saying "Yo I'm working on a map for gvh!" but never hear from them again.  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 02:25:31 PM
Ah, guess people dont want to restrain themselves on a time limit. Strange, though. GVH is still pretty popular, wonder what keeps the mappers from mapping for it. Dont think the requirements are that high, nor are you heavily demanding. :P

Edit: Maybe give them a new forum topic to post work in progress on. And if they're seemingly dead, try an advertisement on the website anyway. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 02, 2010, 02:28:28 PM
Well I have become more picky, I've rejected a couple of submissions because of the layout (usually too ghoul friendly) before.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 02:36:23 PM
Ah, easy to turn a map too human or ghoul friendly, something i try to balance out, but not the easiest thing to do. Maybe give em pointers on how to make it more balanced, i guess.
I suppose we have plenty of one-sided maps in GVH by now and some balanced ones are always fresh. Hmm... Though difficult to come by.

Meh, dont have much suggestions for this left, aside being a little more allowing if the people just cant make better balanced maps.

I'm not sure what GVH would miss otherwise, unless you'd possibily tinker on some idea's to make the game interesting, like is that different weapon balance in TDM still going on? Some elements like the Marine with his countless grenades may be problematic. And the fact that ghouls utterly rape with no fear of death in TDM, its hard for the humans to stand and repel them like in TLMS.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 02, 2010, 02:37:54 PM
Yeah I was thinking about it, but it may be more hassle than I had hoped for. As for other stuff to keep the gameplay fresh, throw some ideas at me! That ideas badge still has no owners  :cool:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 02:43:09 PM
Hmm... Idea's... Guess i'll post any as soon as i think of any. One could even go as far as create a set of maps to use GVH in a different team-based gamemode. Guess it'll take a while to think of anything, but if we keep posting were gonna fill this entire page with ramblings anyway. And i'm kinda running out... :P

Edit: And i havent eaten yet, so i'd better do so now.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 02, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Regardless of that, its is about the CLASS, how well it does at its fullest potential, or well, assuming the player is good at it, that at the very least.

you just prove my point, a player good at hunter will be the same as a noob ghostbuster or cyborg, that's how good the class is now.

i don't get what the fuss about the riotgun is tbh. nobody ever complained about it for a billion releases and i have no problems killing marines, maybe you need to practice somemore CT afterall whining how op things are as a spec does make your skills rusty.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 05:09:36 PM
The hunter is strong enough, he doesnt HAVE to stand out among the humans, like the marine.

And go try a Jitterskull before you even think of attacking my skill. Though like most Marines you'll probaly just chicken out. They all do, just stop it before you make yourself even more stupid. Or feel free to combat a Marine as a Jitterskull, though the people who do that are either some of the other Jitterskull users or just do it in a ghoul map. Meh, cowards.

Make sure you fight the best riotgun abusers if you do try it, not some random garbage.
Also, random guy from the past tells me spectating makes my skills rusty while he's been away for ages? Dont make yourself more of a fool then you are. My skills are fine. I just play whenever the situation is fun to play in, what you Marine noobs tend to ruin.
Meh, with larger spread hopefully approaching marines and missing on a distance doesnt equal death or unavoidable damage.

Edit: Hmm... And i would offer idea's for the TDM different weapon set thing... But all i can think of is to reduce marine's grenades and engineer's steam cannon ammo in TDM, but thing is... Then the ghouls would overrun them even more easily with unlimited respawns and agression in TDM. Hmm... Maybe something to make the ghouls easier to repel in TDM(by all means without ruining the fun of having no fear of death)...

Meh, perhaps a new tool of sorts for TDM?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 02, 2010, 05:54:15 PM
I have no troubles killing marines. And maybe i deserve to dominate if i can land 90% of my shots instead of getting punished for it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 02, 2010, 06:12:40 PM
Maybe you dont realize landing all those shots is ussually quite overpowered.
The spread should make it less super effective on rather rediculous distances, and hopefully make medium distance shots acceptable. Instead of killing a ghoul in 2-3 shots easily...

Meh, idiots. They just dont care for the balance. Would you like it if something was unfair, and against you, and caused you to lose? Meh, you'd probaly just switch to whatever is overpowered. They all do, but some actually care about the balance or are not the types to abuse the new overpowered thing.

Also, i hope the spread is worth it Cutman, if it is a tiny change, undoubtedly all it'll do is delay our inevitable death. Or cause 10-20 less damage. Would like more information regarding the spread, unless its more of a suprise. What i'll undoubtedly yell at for being useless. :P

Hmm... Then again, if it does quite less damage on distance atleast i'd be able to take them down before i die, or *gasp* even several! Unless they're not paying attention, that makes em a easy meal.

Edit: An idea, make the spread of the riotgun into a close-up weapon, something that should be not too effecient at medium range, and give the machinegun alot more ammo. It never gets used anyway, shotguns normally are made for short range. :P
If you must, even increase its damage or amount of bullets if you will make it short ranged. I just hate the long-range kills from a shotgun, and undoubtedly, it will remain long ranged. Ugh.

Also, i saw a bug, someone somehow joined without a team. No clue how to recreate it, but i have a screenshot.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 03, 2010, 05:04:51 AM
Quote from: "Carthief"
Meh, idiots. They just dont care for the balance. Would you like it if something was unfair, and against you, and caused you to lose?

Do me a favor, be careful of where you place words like, "idiot," in sentences from now on.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 03, 2010, 03:24:42 PM
Oh what i shout in-game regarding Marines is worse, its just that it is all getting really annoying Marine this, Marine that. They use Marnies for EVERYTHING! I'd be the happiest GVH player ever if there be no Marines. :P

Mostly a way to relief stress, really, though its true, they all hop on the Marine abuse bandwagon, they rarely care for teams or it takes ages for stuff to happen. Seems pretty justified, and else a needed way to blow off some steam.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 03, 2010, 03:37:40 PM
I think I need to make a new WAD, Ghouls vs

There'd only be one team, the ghouls. And they sit there and enjoy not having humans around  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 03, 2010, 05:01:56 PM
I think "Ghouls vs Marines" is more of an accurate discription i continuously find myself stuck in. Many of the experienced human players just knowingly resort to the currently most powerfull choice regarding the human team classes. And that while Jitterskull is probaly the second worst choice against Marines if you where to pick a ghoul strong against them.

Its rather hard not to complain about stuff if i constantly gotta fight the same, super powerfull enemy all the time. :P
Meh, enemy variation and less abuse of the most powerfull thing would make the game more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 07, 2010, 06:59:49 AM
Well, i found a small bug-ish thing with the textures in the Solanid map. Apparently one of the boxes has the textures a bit misalligned or whatever you call it.
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5042/screenshotdoom201008060.th.png) (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/screenshotdoom201008060.png/)

I guess its a different reason to post then the endless use of Marines. Hope the spread is worth it... If not it wont make a difference with the old version.
Edit: And the Ghouls Forest forum is kinda dead, please revive it with another update. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 07, 2010, 03:25:30 PM
I'm going to bring that hunter buff back up. He really needs a small buff to be back on par with the other human classes.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anonymous on August 07, 2010, 05:39:09 PM
Engineer has infinite nails, why stop shooting?

Hint Hint CutMan
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 07, 2010, 05:57:59 PM
You stop because it makes noise, gives away your position and it gives ghouls an idea in which direction you are looking. And those things can cost you your life.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 07, 2010, 06:45:55 PM
That indeed may cost lives. Besides, only the Engineer bot can utterly destroy people with a nailgun and its bottish movement.

I dont see the point for a hunter buff though, his power surely isnt lacking and he still runs like a God, as far as i'm aware. Only thing about him right now is the hunter being mostly inaccurate, and that shouldnt change.

Hmm... I can imagine the old overpowered times coming back if he remained at Godly speed when firing his super powerfull magical arrows.

I'm not even sure if he ever got another nerf ever since, i mean, its probaly just the current generation of GVH players that pushed aside the Hunter for the massively superior Marine. And that makes him look even weaker.
Edit: And its far more better that he has to sprint ahead, then turn around and shoot, instead of the more effortless way in the past. Atleast ghouls can catch up with him now.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 07, 2010, 09:26:24 PM
The only ghouls that can keep up with an SR50 Hunter is an SR50 Choke. I'll say do something a little more effective with his ice magic, but Hunter is actually incredibly fine (pro lightning arrow users will win most of the time, Frits, Ammar, and Arctic coming to mind). Lightning magic works with low ceiling situations and can nearly kill a creepy on direct hit.

I still believe the nailgun is incredibly cheap.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 07, 2010, 09:46:40 PM
Yes... Hunter is fine. Its probaly Frits skills that lack due to his recent preference for the Marine. Ammar probaly exeeds him by now, and is living proof the hunter can kick ass, ah... Some people try, atleast.
I think the screenshot says enough, considering Ammar used the hunter, in a ghoul map, they got quite far.
(click to show/hide)
As for the Nailgun... I dont see why. Is it the unlimited spammability? The no need for reloading? I mean, sure, Engineer bots utterly RAPE with it, but its fairly weak when players use it. Though if you're that persistent on nerfing it, i suggest it needs to reload after so many shots, though it should stay infinite ammo, or the Engineer will be defenceless when his other weapons run out.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 08, 2010, 08:04:22 AM
That screenshot proves nothing, a low player game with very mediocre humans on ammar's side and the ghouls.

First off yes hunter is the fastest with SR50 in a straight line but most maps are mini-jumpmazes you won't get far without running into objects, but unlike choke n sjas he's also defenseless when using SR50 because you can't aim.
Like I've said before Ice and Fire are nice if you can get a one hit kill with them, but it's more luck than skill. It might suck as a ghoul but it's no different than running around the corner into a sjas or a jitterskull or running into a random grenade as a creeper. Ice sure as it's advantages in really tight spaces(the small foggy map comes to mind) but that's it.
When a GOOD sjas chases you you only get one shot to kill it mainly because of the massive slowdown. Ice and fire can do the trick, but it's predicting and praying the ghoul will run straight into your arrows. With Lightning on the other hand you can guarantee a hit but you can't kill the ghoul so in this case it's like a penalty, you choose a side to flee and hope the ghoul picked the other side. It's not impossible to kill ghoul, I'm not saying that but it sure is a lot harder to do and a lot less rewarding than any other class right now.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 08, 2010, 08:33:25 AM
Hmm... Hunter may be harder to handle, but who else starts WITH a railgun of sorts, a instakill (in most cases, IF it hits of course), and two easy ways to fend off a creeper? Sure, he's hard to control, but you want him EVEN STRONGER? Why not make him easier to handle in a way?

I dont want the Hunter to become the new Marine. That would be plain wrong. Hmm... Looking back on the really old times, hunters could, as long as they released fire ASAP, keep running top speed. At the time they where the fastest class around, no-one could keep up with them, no-one could touch them. They shot and they ran, untill all the ghouls inevitably died.

Even with Choke, and Frostbite's spam breath, going back to those times would not be a good idea. Maybe suggest something else to get out of nasty situations, these days Cutman can implement, uh, inventory items to add more buttons for the classes, for example, the Ghostbuster can switch from a upgraded gun(i wouldnt call the blood spreader an "upgrade" though) to his normal gun.

Edit: Just a thought, do they HAVE to be easy to handle? Do all classes need to be just as easy? Does there not need to be a change in how they act or work? Regarding the ghoul side, Jitterskull has some akward movement to master, and his biting attack requires some practise to master. And the Creeper tends to be far more fragile then your average ghoul, requiring good use of the enviroment and of course the Creeper's weapons. Not to mention Creeper is super slow.

So... Why should the humans not have a trickier class? If it pays off, if people can pull it off, then is it not enough? I mean, some Hunter players RAPE, yet so do i, but with Jitterskull. There are some people that know how to handle a Creeper as well (though if you ask me they just die too quick and dont frag much or quickly, good for TLMS though).

Edit2: Oh, and do realize, the Hunter is NOT a God, he's just an average human, so he really doesnt need to stand out that much. In the right hands he already has extreme potential.
And it is yet made fair by the fact that he can miss, so they're fun to fight yet a challange from time to time(i dont see alot of good hunters, they're all marines).
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 08, 2010, 08:43:10 AM
i'm not asking for the old hunter, i'm asking for a buff. He'll never be the new marine because lighting is waaay harder to hit anything with. Why make him more easy? the hunter used to be the best class for people with the best aim, sadly that isn't true anymore, well it still is but even with an aimbot i doubt you can dominate bigger games.

EDIT: stop editing lol. Other classes have more potential in those hands CT mainly marine and cyborg. And that's the reason why nobody uses them anymore. How many people would use jitter if you had to bite twice for a kill? they just would go sjas and that's what's happening with the hunter.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 08, 2010, 08:51:56 AM
The Hunter can still do just fine, in his own way. I mean, what other class starts with an sniping weapon, as for regular combat, fire or ice, or normal if you're suicidal, tend to work.

Hmm... Cyborg... I'd still say he's super easy to dodge, though the good ones try to dodge me as well.

Meh, if he needs a buff that badly, i wonder if it'll be a decent one, i mean, once something is overpowered, people WILL use it. So... What the hell of buff would actually be in between useless and overpowered... Hmm... I suppose i'd agree if its a balanced buff.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 08, 2010, 10:50:08 AM
//Marine
{
Marine just needs less ammo for his shotgun. 25 shots would be ok. His pistols need a reload as well. Sometimes when I'm fighting against lesser skilled players, I switch to pistols then I never let go of the attack button and end up winning.

Use inv should use the crouch skin, make him shorter, add 0.50 onto his x-y momentum but unable to look around, change direction or anything during it. Basicly perform a slide.
}

//Hunter
{
Hunter needs a shorter time for his slow down. As a creeper, as soon as I see the hunter about to fire, balled, dead. If it was reduced then he might have a chance.

Use inv should be withdraw arrow, so you don't have to shoot the floor hurting yourself with your fire arrows.
}

//Cyborg
{
Cyborg needs a fuel regain but REALLY slow. 1 fuel every 2 seconds but regains no matter what (unless you die).
}

//Ghostbuster
{
Ghostbuster is awesome. Don't touch.
}

//Engineer
{
Darn Engineer needs a reload for his nailgun.

Use inv should summon harmless tough pile of anything in front of him for cover for himself and humans from ghouls (thruspecies because of "FUCKING BLOCKER NOOB").
}

//Sjas
{
Sjas should be made louder so you can hear him when he's further away.

Use inv should stop you instantly so that you go invisible much quicker than you would by stopping normally (because of that darn trail).
}

//Jitterskull
{
Jitterskull is near awesome. Use inventory should be a diagonal upward nom that looses your floor clipping for a while to get those flying cyborgs.
}

//Creeper
{
Use inv = CREEPERBALL JUMPING
}

//Choke
{
Choke, we've already discussed this. Eating corpses for health regain.
}

//Frostbite
{
Frostbite is fine. Use inv, much like the Engineer should summon a harmless tough spike in front of him for cover for himself and ghouls from humans (thruspecies).
}
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 08, 2010, 02:44:17 PM
Choke already gets health back from successful munch kills now.

If I added reloading for the Engineer, would anyone care if you couldn't do it manually? The reason is, he already has an altfire. Unless of course I make it his useinv.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on August 08, 2010, 02:56:49 PM
Can't you make it one of the engineer's useinv?

Item added in select state, taken in deselect.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Anonymous on August 08, 2010, 08:18:20 PM
That picture was friggin TDM, if it was TLMs on the other hand, then I'd agree that hunter is perfect.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 08, 2010, 09:58:57 PM
I would agree with DTD's idea's for the use inventory button stuff. But Marine's dodge roll... Meh. I mean, what if the bastard dodge rolls as in charge into him and then SHOOTS ME AGAIN? Especially if its as godamn easy as with the Cyborg, it would be too much! Unless he can only do it in the direction he's looking... Or the roll needs a cooldown of sorts.

And a reload would be at its best if done manually, well, if you run out and press fire, you should reload as well, but if you press the use inventory button if it would reload before it was empty, that would be ideal.

Well, either that or go with DTD's other idea. If any of them gets used, an anti-air chomp seems interesting, possibily a good way to dodge too.

Otherwise, if you're not going to add them to the GVH files itself, why not make an official addon with these extra features? Unless GVH:RE is supposed to do that. Or add it to that. :P

Edit: Of course it is TDM. Its the new thing that people do with GVH. Look at the score though, they scored damn well while GVH in TDM is much more ghoul sided.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 09, 2010, 04:59:39 AM
Quote from: "Frits"
the hunter used to be the best class for people with the best aim,

When was this? In between bouts of 1 hit KO lightning arrows, OP ice arrows, or the invincible fire arrows?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 09, 2010, 12:51:30 PM
you're missing the point and yes somewhere back then.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 09, 2010, 01:13:17 PM
Okay pages of arguing about it isn't going to help. I do agree that it is trickier to get kills with him than the other classes, simply because he needs distance that sometimes is just not there. Throw me some ideas that could make him more balanced. The only thing I've done so far is make him load his lightning arrows a bit faster.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 09, 2010, 01:17:59 PM
I've already said this but the Hunter:

When you click fire and instantly release it to fire your arrow as quickly as possible. The slow down should be later in the firing state. At the moment you get slowed down for too long, just to attack. Yes I do know about using normal arrows.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on August 09, 2010, 03:32:34 PM
I might take a try at coding some splitting ice arrows.. As I can't play (at all) right now.

And since 32+ shards is a bit more useful in the distance than 6 arrows..

Stay tuned?

Edit: Heh.. Is this intentional?

Code: [Select]
ACTOR IceArrow
{
   Radius 3
   Height 2
   Speed 38
   decal icehit
   Scale .5
   Damage 6
   +DONTBLAST
   PROJECTILE
   damagetype "ice2"
   renderstyle add //Renderstyle 1
   alpha 0.8
   +NOGRAVITY
   +NOEXTREMEDEATH
   renderstyle translucent //Renderstyle 2 ... WUT
   alpha 1.0
EditEdit: Okay, Here's the file. (http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/GVHv2b9HunterIceShards.zip) The shards are unreliable at best, which is why I made them pretty badass. (High damage per projectile compared to projectile count)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 09, 2010, 08:25:07 PM
It doesnt seem like a good idea against classes like Jitterskull to make them instantly firing, i mean, its dangerous and lethal enough to be stuck near the humans, and they ALREADY manage to lightning arrow me often enough, this would make things rediculous.

On normal ghouls, its supposed to be tricky, but rewarding with 70+ damage on ANY distance, atleast let it keep its mechanic to make it tricky regarding aiming, its always been a matter of having hard work pay off. Not to go Marine style with click, point, shoot, 40-50+ damage, repeat, no movement delay, nothing stopping them, and its hitscan too.

Besides that, the hunter STARTS with the railgun, while say, the Ghostbuster's railgun requires some effort to obtain. And some players might be thrown off by any change on the loading and firing mechanic the bow has been using for like months/years.

Meh, please dont turn the hunter into an overpowered abomination of a class AGAIN. If the lightning bow turned into a cheaper version of the GB's railgun, that would be simply wrong and overpowered. Each weapon has its drawbacks, keep those.

Edit: And Mobius makes one hell of a point. Perhaps they're all used to the overpowered Hunter, and ragequitted to the Marine instead... Due to the extreme power (grenades), and strong hitscan (riotgun). Just a theory of sorts, its probaly accurate.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 10, 2010, 06:00:44 AM
OLD LIGHTING ARROWS FTW  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 10, 2010, 06:07:59 AM
You'll think twice if you're on the other side of that bow. Not that the likes of you ever faced a intense battle with a powerfull human. Or overpowered ones.

Also, after seeing Mobius pop up a GVH server for a change, he apparently was very suprised when i told him so far i recall the plans have changed to more spread instead of projectiles.
He didnt seem too pleased about a Sjas nerf either.

I guess his words where true, he felt GVH becoming WAY too human sided. Its certainly coming to that again if the humans get buffed even more.

Edit: Could you possibily tell us what is delaying the release of the new version Cutman? And maybe how to let it happen faster... Unless you're still needing more stuff like maps. I ran out of inspiration though. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 10, 2010, 06:58:08 AM
Err ghouls still win 80% of all matches and what's with this noes humans are so powerful stuff, i've never had trouble killing humans as a ghoul and if i knew how to record i demo i'd show you.
FYI i'm the worst ghoul player ever.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 10, 2010, 07:27:42 AM
I'll assume it is due to a lack of human players that can effortlessly (ab)use a class's strong sides and completely obliterate a ghoul. Aside marines, of course.
Aside that for quite a long time TDM used to be very popular, and the ghouls certainly can score more frags then the humans if they have no fear of death. That might have given people a different idea of GVH.

I guess the current settings GVH is fine tuned to is fine, but it tends to either lack much input from the humans, or the ghouls just overwhelm them in TDM, or in any gamemode if they're far more experienced then the humans.
GVH certainly does NOT need those overpowered mechanics back that where basically cheats. One hit KO's on sniping distance... Bah. It was altered for obvious reasons.

In short, everything is balanced, but the human team tends to lack skill equal to the ghoul team, or just cant handle the brutal assault the ghoul team sometimes delivers, or it is simply TDM. I've seen times of the human team utterly raping and winning 5 to 0. Thats ussually when the human team has more skilled players (or the occasional Marine spam). Meh, or the map was in their advantadge.

Hmm... And to my observation, the human team proves trickier to play, and is far more dependant of teamwork in order to win. Now, i do not see this happen alot, and they just scatter off and get picked off one by one. They dont even bother to go in groups of 2. Completely understandable behaviour though, either for newbies or people just interested in some fragging. The old times with fanatic teams camping like their life depended on it has passed. Maybe someone needs to make a clan/group/something to put the tactics back into GVH.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 10, 2010, 08:15:57 AM
Nothing is delaying the release, except this thread  ;)

@Blox: I don't know what to think of this super ice spread. It is pretty cool, but I managed to kill a jitterskull in 3 shots at once side of project strikebeam to the other, and ice is supposed to be close ranged  ;)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 10, 2010, 12:56:44 PM
May I ask why is the sjas damage radius being nerfed?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 10, 2010, 12:58:33 PM
So you have to get your ass closer in order to OHKO. At the minute I think it's too hard to dodge. We'll see how it goes, don't forget I can always just spew out another update if people don't like something (i.e hunter teleport)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 10, 2010, 01:01:34 PM
I thought the radius damage from a sjas was mainly random damage dependent or ping. I've seen, and even been through, an experience where a dead on scream only cripples an opponent. So how close are we talking here in units?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 10, 2010, 01:15:56 PM
Before, if you were barely close enough you just took a lot of damage. Now, you won't get hurt at all by that.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on August 10, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
I don't know what to think of this super ice spread. It is pretty cool, but I managed to kill a jitterskull in 3 shots at one side of project strikebeam to the other, and ice is supposed to be close ranged  ;)

Considering each shard can do up to 9 damage, and there are about 48 shards.

That can hump you for a maximum damage of 432 - But that's impossible, because of random shattering times/spread..

..Although those <432 points of damage can easily give a group of ghouls a real beating.

Solution: Nerf | Nerf type: REDUCE DAMAGE: random(1,3)*random(1,3) to about random(1,2)*random(0.5,1.5)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 10, 2010, 01:20:52 PM
wow you can kill 2.5 carthiefs with one ice arrow :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 10, 2010, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Before, if you were barely close enough you just took a lot of damage. Now, you won't get hurt at all by that.

So no more unintentional killing. That's good. The annoying, "barely nicked me," shit can finally be put to rest. I just hope sjas don't need to be completely dead on to be effective.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 10, 2010, 02:31:20 PM
lol sjas is the strongest ghoul atm, you're all biased. Biased i tell you! just like me!
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 10, 2010, 04:31:16 PM
Does the ice even need changing? Or are people still trying to find acceptable hunter buffs?
Meh, really do hope for the projectile nerf for marine instead, i mean... Hitscan... Just... click, and they're dead, no avoiding, no tactics, any distance, just, click and they drop down or explode into flames.

And the machinegun seems utterly worthless in comparison with the riotgun, though its kinda on the weak side if you try to keep the fire on the enemy, it could perhaps do with more bullets if you went for the projectile spread anyway. Heh, i still remember the times of when they where overpowered...
And i hope there is no reason to delay an update aside any changes to the marine, if any, or if the fool who wants the hunter overpowered actually ruins the game for us.

Also, you're not even TRYING to make the game balanced Frits. Well, definetly not regarding the hunter, thats for sure... Old lightning arrows... Worst idea ever.

And sometimes i hear people complain about the massive grenade count, though i dont care too much, they say 10 is too much, some even suggest 5 grenades. I guess i never had any trouble with grenades.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 10, 2010, 06:12:43 PM
if its just *click* why don't you show us how easy it is.
Just got owned in TLMS on strikebeam or whatever the dish map is called 3 marines vs 3 sjas ghouls won. Yes sooooooooooooooo overpowered.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 10, 2010, 07:39:22 PM
Either your team sucked, or the enemy team had more skills. I would say your teammates sucked possibily... But i'm doubtfull you cant be equally as guilty of sucking.

A need for skill still exists, sure, its a little trickier to play humans, but they can pay off alot more. I still encounter the occasional good player, like the cyborg that never stops chasing me, ammar's lightning arrows if i ever make the tiniest mistake, some cyborg that likes to dodge me, some engineers who like their steam cannon, and plenty of cheap marines.
(I never encounter lethal ghostbusters though. I guess GB aint that dangerous compared to the others.)

How can you be so sure anyway if you've been away for ages, and rarely play. While i'm still around, seen many, many games, played many games, and observed to see just about every flaw. Sometimes its even easy to tell who's gonna win.

Hmm... If you're sure about keeping things as they are now, maybe it would be nice if you released the new version very soon, Cutman? Or is there still some possibility for change? If so, i guess the few requests are well known.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 10, 2010, 07:40:35 PM
I took on multiple sjas in GVH13/GVH10 as a marine in one round and win. I was called the sjas exterminator by Spider for it. All I used was grenades and riotgun.

How did you manage to lose in GVH29 though? That is a freakin` marine map.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 11, 2010, 12:06:21 AM
Hmm... I ran into yet another flaw. When spammed, that with the constant respawning in TDM, the Steam Cannon thing can do outrageous damage, hit the entire ghoul team at once if the situation allows, and do this for FIVE times per RESPAWN, trust me, people die alot in TDM.

This makes creepers utterly useless, it will cause servere damage to all the other ground ghouls, and not even Sjas is safe from the enormous range it has. Mind you, i'm not asking to nerf the gun, just asking for an ammo reduction in TDM. Some might say the same about the grenades too, but atleast thats not my problem, perhaps someone else will complain about grenades later on. Think i recall mobius thought the total amount of grenades to be a bit too much.

Maybe 2, 3 tops for the steam cannon in TDM. And the nailgun is a pain in the ass as well, please make it have to reload. Is the nailgun needing a reload on the list anyway?

Edit: If its gonna require a manual reload, it should probaly have a bot-friendly version, too. :P
Speaking of bots, the Ghostbuster and Cyborg tend to dash about, rush into fights and later on get litterally drained, making them easy to pick off, and this would be a bit too easy if there would be a TLMS campaign fight against bots. If there's anything that actually can be done about it with some nifty ACS. Or the bots need a gun that recharges while walking. :P
Maybe it would be interesting to have the Ghostbuster bot forcefully upgrade after a kill too, atleast varies the gameplay if you ever make or finish a campaign. Would pay to be carefull about the bone cannon though, bots RAPE with railguns and hitscan weapons.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 11, 2010, 06:59:21 AM
Okay okay chill out. Now we're going into, "make this only for TDM/TLMS," territory. I think all these additions/subtractions to some of these request can be done through making a wad yourself like Blox did. If you want to balance things for a specific game mode then do what others do and make an unofficial patch for GVH. I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud.

It's like if a niche crowd came in wanting changes to make it more CTF compatible. I understand the sentiment but it is a little, to be frank, absurd.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 11, 2010, 08:14:02 AM
GVH will always be TLMS focused, regardless of how it screws up TDM if at all  ;)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 11, 2010, 08:47:11 AM
It would be hard to apply these non-official wads t official servers though. Speaking of, i seriously wish they would reuse that wad that stopped people from exessively stacking on one team.

Ah well, the nailgun needing a reload might be an idea. But if you're not sure about changing anything more yet, why not release it for now? If it has all it needs for now, like the marine nerf, choke buff, various stuff and map changes. I do hope you got the latest file, the v4 one that has doors that default on staying open, people seemingly didnt like the doors. :P

Meh, still wish the nerf would turn them into projectiles though, i'm sure that would put 90% of the players off from using him solely for the riotgun hitscan abuse. Hopefully the spread is worth it alright... A tiny spread means nothing, aside surviving ONE more shot, probaly.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 11, 2010, 09:14:34 AM
Put it this way, I had to be pretty much at making out distance to kill Jitterskull with two Riotgun shots  :p

I'm still thinking about a few things, that's why there's no update. That, and Dracula has taken my soul.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 11, 2010, 09:29:13 AM
That explains why i see Creepers explode as they scream in pain and agony as a shotgun hits then point blank. On full HP. :P

Hmm... Its not the damage output really (though that matters alot if it IS hitscan), for all i care it can do a 100 damage on a full hit, if it where a large group of projectiles. Its kinda like plasma, if it hits, expect a world of pain, but its not the fastest thing ever, super easy to dodge at range, and non-cyborg-bots are gonna have difficulty keeping people warm with plasma.

The whole hitscan thing with considerable damage and range is just tedious and powerfull, one mistake, one obvious movement, that, and a decent range, and it'll hurt and there's nothing you can do about it. Hell, they catch me while moving with it! MOVING!! :P

Guess it'll take a while for any update to occur. Oh well, i've had worse times... GVH needed alot more nerfing in the past. :P

Edit: Damn lightning arrows. They're almost impossible to beat as a Jitterskull. Try it, its extremely frustrating, you CANNOT tell me otherwise, as i cannot be proven wrong on this fact, it IS frustrating. Wish they did like, 50-60 damage on Jitterskulls instead. Atleast i can fuck up twice before being unfairly fried on any distance. All the other classes do have the luxury of attacking AND dodging at the same time, and else they can dodge swiftly after, Jitterskull cannot, wouldnt this atleast be fair for us Jitterskull users!?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 12, 2010, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: "CarThief"
All the other classes do have the luxury of attacking AND dodging at the same time, and else they can dodge swiftly after, Jitterskull cannot, wouldnt this atleast be fair for us Jitterskull users!?

Jitterskull has the luxury of being extremely difficult to hit while moving. If someone hits you with lightning while a Jitterskull is simply moving around (and not just moving straight forward), they've earned it! If they hit you after a chomp, then... aim your chomps better! :p  He's designed to be the most awkward to use, but rewarding. And people know how rewarding it is, walking into a room with human players having no time to react to the mass of rape that is in front of them.

Which is why Sjas I believe needs a nerf. He has it too easy on most maps. Sure on GVH00 humans can get more space to get away but a lot of maps aren't that huge, so Sjas will always be able to slide through the levels taking kills left right and centre and be awkward to hit at the same time. So while Jitterskull can kick ass with some effort and dedication to making his movement work, Sjas can get a lot of kills with much more ease. Having said that though, the nerf I have given him for the next version shouldn't be too much of a bother for Sjas fans.

So uhhh... about those other classes!
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 12, 2010, 01:42:08 PM
Mind you it can be quite hard to actually land a blow, its easy to dodge if they're aware, and if they're camping... Oh boy... They are quite aware then. In short its just really damn hard sometimes, especially if there's TWO hunters. Well, why would they, Marines still rule the place.

Meh, as for other classes...
Hmm... The engineer still could do with a need to reload his nailgun, it is incredibily spammy, the reload should be considerable, a bit of a tactical decision, if you will. Well, if a reload ever gets implemented.

Nothing to add to the Marine, Hunter, Cyborg or Ghostbuster.

Hmm... I'd still say Creeper could use a curse ball jump of sorts, but it may be more suited to a GVH addon of sorts.
All the other ghouls seem fine i suppose.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 13, 2010, 07:39:09 PM
suggestion for the cyborg, the dodge is quite slow and you can keep track of the cyborg easily when you try. Because the invul only last for a really short time making him defenseless until the dodge is complete + add the time to start firing again.

When i creeper dodging cyborgs are like heaven because they move in a straight path and it's just freezing and picking them off. A close sjas can easily track and kill before the dodge is complete.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on August 13, 2010, 07:49:55 PM
The dodge is also one of the best ways to get ammo back in a short period of time and has a good enough speed. A good cyborg can be unpredictable about it and it'd be kind of hard to nail him, but maybe an improvement can help so..
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 14, 2010, 02:59:42 AM
Meh, i'm in the same dilemma as the Cyborg basically, i charge, i get stuck, i die. No reason for the Cyborg not to have this *optional* (and rare) disadvantadge.

Besides, it is a invaluable tool to actually dodge incoming non-sjas! Well, it works on Sjas to an extend too, unless they're aimbotting you and know where you are and can get to you instantly, well, even then, the distance should make up for the cooldown in most cases.

Cyborg never was good versus the agile Sjas. Lets just keep it that way so the Cyborg spammers arent immune to Creepers, Jitterskulls, and virtually every other ground bound ghoul! Well, dont expect a blood ball to be accurate or to get much damage on a mid-air target with frost breath. Especially if they drop unexpectedly.

Edit: A Cyborg with an good aim that can think ahead (AKA shoot where sjas travels), or simply run and spam like its his last spamfest, should still do decently against a Sjas. Well... Against most. Or else serverely weaken it, in any case.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 14, 2010, 03:09:44 AM
You really need to play as Cyborg. You can dodge jump. Dodge and Jump ever so slightly you press Useinv.

You go for miles and you can do massive jumps doing that.


Also @marine.
After he throws his grenade, he needs a much longer delay before he picks his gun back up or readys to throw another.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 14, 2010, 05:59:44 AM
Never tried jumping and dodging at the same time. Though with the normal dodging ability, getting out of harm's way, aside Sjas, is rediculously easy, well unless they like to persistently follow you and you're low on plasma.
I think its fine as is right now. I mean, i guess i sometimes play Cyborg, he does well against obvious movers and especially with correct jetpack use versus ground bound ghouls.

Hmm... Grenades do like... What, 110+ damage? I guess i wouldnt mind a nerf on those, though it doesnt matter much to me if their inaccurate brute force does or doesnt get updated. First time i've seen a interesting grenade nerf idea though.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 14, 2010, 06:38:44 AM
Copied from other topic:

For Creeper if there is no CREEPERBALL JUMPINGZ!!!

Creeper has the ability to heal ghouls to their full health but the Creepers needs to get 1 frag to unlock this ability. It also costs the poor thing 40hp.

It works like this:

Code: [Select]
Random Ghoul 1: Oit Creeper, I got 1hp lolz
Creeper: lolz k. I got 70hp and I got a frag somehow.
Random Ghoul 1: Can I suck on ur balls plz?
Creeper: K Creeper uses Inventory.
Inventory takes away 40hp.
Creeper uses altfire to fire a Creeper ball that glows green sparks and heals.
Code: [Select]
Creeper: OMFG!!! I missed
Random Ghoul 1: OMFG ur a noob!
Random Ghoul 1 was fragged by Random Human
Random Ghoul 1: OMFG I WAS TALKING!

Quote from: "CarThief"
Maybe this idea would have been better suited in the other topic.

I do like the idea of Creepers being ACTUALLY USEFULL! I mean, all they do is kamikaze into marines and hunters specifically, get shot, die, and wait to respawn or simply feed the human team frags.
If they could provide exellent LMS healing support, by all means, that would be great considering the ghouls rarely do their job without recieving damage or dieing to cheap weapons.

Now if this was implemented, i wonder if people actually would bother using it instead of doing the abovementioned suicide tactics.
And it would be better if it was done like the average stun ball, except useinventory fired the healing one.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 14, 2010, 07:03:58 AM
CT: You miss you die. Don't say it's unfair it's the same for every ghoul and every human.

FYI creepers are very very useful and really strong, so i don't get what the problem is.
They're are always cheap frag targets on both teams but hey that's moar points for me.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 14, 2010, 07:09:21 AM
That previous statement did not mean it was unfair to miss and die, it was unfair if the cyborg missed but did not die, well, if the dashing function could be considered an charging attack of sorts. Basically: Jitterskull doesnt get that kind of mercy/buffs, why should Cyborg?

And Creepers just suck 50% of the time, of course, its the players, even with a pro, though, a decently timed explosive can kill them in one hit, thus they could be a more usefull addition to the team with some supportive abilities.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 14, 2010, 07:19:22 AM
that's the way it is, if i get killed i'll use a different approach next time. It does suck to run into a random nade but that doesn't happen too often.

\offtopic
I played TLMS again the other day and damn, i forgot how campy the humans were. All marines with grenades waiting for me to attack. But it was fun and a whole lot different from TDM.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 14, 2010, 07:30:21 AM
Ah, they where much more of a threat in the old days. Atleast they know what spot to abuse and camp at, how to become utterly invincible, how to abuse every kind of weaponry to its limits. Ah... Atleast these times are better and more balanced.

Too bad for some as time increased, human tactics decreased. Now they randomly go off and search for ghouls, only to die to a strong one or get overwhelmed. They often go alone, will go practically anywhere if they dont know the ghoul's location, and seem far more careless.

Works out just fine for me though, i like easy targets. Targets that are a challenge in a... Non-cheap way are fun too, no instant super damage from a railgun, or never missing riotgun abuse, just regular good ol weapons.
Ah... The days GVH was hosted with other map packs... Perhaps someone should host those again...

Hmm... Either they where better in the past or their weapons where most likely far more powerfull back then. No wonder the old times seem so hard.
This is taking ages though, the new update is taking kinda long. Wonder whats stopping Cutman aside possible maps.

Edit: I cannot think of any... Suggestions. Though i wonder if Cutman would apply the idea if it is even possible at all. Seems tricky to implement with the team damage preventing mechanism and stuff.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 14, 2010, 07:38:49 AM
GVH needs to be suited for competitive play, not casual play. Creepers are actually cheap frags against skilled players, ever if the creeper itself is skilled, they are so easy to kill.

Imagine a 3v3 match with skilled players such as yourself.

What would you be more afraid of, a creeper with it's stunballs and an injured Sjas?

Or a creeper with the stunballs but also the opportunity to give the half beaten Sjas 100% health unless you do some damage to it fast.


I think the healing will make the game much more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 14, 2010, 08:02:55 AM
my 40hp is my 40hp! you can't have it :D
And not everybody is skilled, a lot of people hit nothing with the riotgun. People who suck are just there to replenish your health as a creeper, so you can have a go at the good ones again.
And with the right tactics it's possible to kill the best players without a sweat.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 14, 2010, 08:17:59 AM
Ah, if they're REALLY good, you wont get no second chance in LMS. Well, Creepers in any case wont be given any second chances. Just do a full out witchhunt on them with explosives galore! Some classes can spam them like mad anyway.

Not that an obvious or easily countered assault often comes with a second chance either. In short they're a bit weak, but quite expendable, though they'll do decent in LMS. I think of them more as a support class, they stun the enemy, the ghouls take em out. Creeper tends to lose alot against classes with many explosives, though.

Sacrificing 40 hp is nothing if it brings victory. By all means, i'd do a suicide charge if it meant victory. Everything that can make us victorious is an viable option. Too bad there's no team dedicated to tactical assaults for the ghoul team.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on August 14, 2010, 11:12:10 AM
i could own myself in TLMS :D
And i've never encountered a human who i can't kill as a creeper, even if he is a total camper with hax sights. There's always a way.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Epsilon on August 18, 2010, 08:54:09 AM
OK, just because I'm really desperate, but I always play up against bots and the problem with jitterskull is he keeps teleporting between 2 points and won't stop until someone gets close, then he charges at you and you get no chance to defend yourself. just asking if you can fix this if you have the skill and time.
K, thanks :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on August 18, 2010, 09:58:18 AM
Quote from: "Epsilon"
then he charges at you and you get no chance to defend yourself.
The bot code is lost forever. Also this doesn't even look like a problem. It looks as if you suck at the game.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on August 18, 2010, 10:57:12 AM
Cant say he just sucks, i mean, not a single amount of skill will save you from bots that either aimbot/cheat (Ultimus comes to mind), or in GVH's case, get close to a Jitterskull, he noticed you, charges at you the absolute milisecond he sees you, and keeps focus on you perfectly, causing maximum damage, top effeciency.... At a cost of being kinda retarded.

The trick to bots often is to outsmart them or abuse their weakness. Bots like the hunter tend to miss alot on long range, and may miss often enough if you keep moving on medium distance, dont bother with hitscan bots though. The trick to those is to kill them before they hit you, depending on the weapon.

Bots tend to chase players going out of sight but only for so long, untill they roam around randomly again. The trick to kill Jitterskull is to hit him from a distance, a long distance. Once hurt, he will be alerted to your presence, but will charge at you, regardless of distance. And he's easy to hit after he charged and missed. Ice arrows works wonders too, if you can hit em up close.

Also: The more closer you get to a bot, the more easily their whacky lock on to player and start wobbling left and right aim has a chance to hit you. Skulltag's bots are quite interesting though, they dont cheat like the bots in Duke Nukem (Except ultimus), they autoaim you with long-range pistols, other hitscan weapons(there's plenty), and never miss aside with projectiles.

Edit: Idea for GVH, make more bot-specific weapons to improve their behaviour. Like a suggestion for Jitterskull if you feel like changing him. Try giving Jitterskull godly Ultimus-like aim, combined with a special bot weapon that decides wether to move or charge when the target is completely locked on(i heard of weapons able to check if they will hit something), and jump to the best suited state(move when too far, charge when in acceptable range).

Maybe this idea works for other ghouls too, if you want bots to be more... Creative.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on August 18, 2010, 03:00:40 PM
Bots COULD, perhaps be hacked into being smarter than they are.

By morphing them into a special bot class, with a special bot weapon that does lots of checks.

..Although that would require an ocean of ACS and DECORATE coding.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on August 18, 2010, 03:01:21 PM
And it wouldn't be worth it anyway. Isn't GVH still active these days? There's no point in playing offline usually  :p
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 14, 2010, 06:57:20 AM
grenade nerf plox or at least reduce spam ability. It's too easy and it gets annoying on the other side.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 14, 2010, 02:00:11 PM
Ah, the trouble of grenade spamming falls into nothingness when you're faced with an engineer spamming a steam ball above your head whereever you go. The absolutely GIGANTIC area of effect and the reasonable damage per shot (like, merely being in its line of fire hurts). I'd say steam cannons are a tad worse, well, in open area's atleast. Sometimes i'd think he needs like 3 or so, or simply have a longer delay, even if it means he can switch weapons while the delay is being executed.

Suppose same type of idea would work for the grenade spam. Poor Creepers, heh.
Though any non-creeper can easily dodge grenades, i suppose, except possibily Frost Bite, but he's the only class with high AND armour.

I hope that damn riotgun gets a GOOD spread too. If the spread is still too small, absolutely NOTHING has changed, well, aside the damage output. Yay. Getting 4-hit instead of 3-hit... Whats the difference...
Or go for the projectile idea, even if it inflicts 100+ damage, if they're projectiles, they MAY be painfull. Not hitscan, just projectiles, power needs to be able to be dodged (like plasma).
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 14, 2010, 02:21:37 PM
Ahhh so pessimistic!  :cool:
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 14, 2010, 05:45:09 PM
I kind of agree on the steam cannon considering how there is no buffer that deters the user from spamming it. Then again the nailgun has infinite ammo and good speed.

But we've all said Engineer was a bit op.. just learn to...


8   :)
8  :)
8 :)
8:)
8)  ... Deal with it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 16, 2010, 09:45:09 AM
lol steam cannon isn't op, atm i'm only annoyed at the endless grenade spams. Riotgun isn't a big deal because most people have shitty aim.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 16, 2010, 10:03:12 AM
Also don't forget when the cannon us used up, it's gone. I tend to spam it at the very start of the round, which usually ends up netting a few ghouls rushing in too early.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 16, 2010, 02:13:43 PM
Just because a fe-- uh, hmm... 45% of the marine users have shitty aim, doesnt mean the ones that dont have to be utter GODS. Power needs a limit, a drawback, a way to defeat it. Jitterskull reflects this perfectly; he has incredible attack power but becomes the easiest of targets when stuck a while after crunching.

Now, the riotgun is missing that weakness (THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE SHITTY AIM), and the rediculous power (a shot can deal OVER EIGHTY DAMAGE!!!), it really just needs a nerf.
Grenades wouldnt be as annoying if they had either a longer delay, or if they where like ghostbuster's traps, you gotta switch to them. Meaning they cant instakill you with a grenade + shotgun combo.

Have you played GVH recently? In a (somewhat) crowded server with many clan people/regulars/whatever people who know how to aim-- abuse a shotgun? No, of course not, not that a servere beating by a shotgun can change your mind, its hopeless.

Basically... With skill one does deserve to win... But the riotgun is plain rediculous! NOTHING aside maybe the bone cannon can match its effeciency! Everything else has a weakness or gap, or a method to dodge... This doesnt.
Short(est) version: Riotgun > all non-bone_cannon human weaponry, please nerf it good.

Oh, and i guess steam does run out, but really... It gets annoying if 70% of your hp gets zapped away by steam cannon spamming, especially if they're all doing it! A cooldown could hardly be called overkill, though there shouldnt be a cooldown on the alt-fire that drops it to the ground. They need that only defence against creepers.

And well i know the riotgun is getting a nerf, but please make sure its a GOOD nerf! As i'll just repeat, it'll change the 3-hits into 4-hits! Thats... Nothing! No difference, nothing but a fancy line of text written on the changelog, nothing more then that. People will still complain, people will still quit gvh, people will still abuse marine.
Meh, awaiting the GVH update that will take longer then Duke Nukem Forever...
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 16, 2010, 02:16:19 PM
All I've done is increased the spread so you (hopefully) can't beat things to a pulp unless they're close up (it is a shotgun after all). If you want more of a nerf than that you're going to have to make an unofficial patch or something.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 16, 2010, 02:20:05 PM
Ah, i hope the spread's good. I mean, its quite... worrying, a small increase does nothing but what i said above. What are you waiting for anyway in regards to releasing GVH? I'm not aware of people making any well thought out maps, simply good maps, or anything you'd like to add.

If you really need maps perhaps ask the authors of existing maps if they want theirs added. If its not maps, then i'm really not sure... All the people on the server went about is that you wanted a larger list of things added/changed. If so its really not a neccesary thing, the smaller ,the more perfect it is as it needs less changes!

Meh, atleast i dont have trouble avoiding grenades, not sure what Frits is doing though when it comes to *gasp* being a ghoul for once. (Damn marine spam...)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 16, 2010, 02:25:37 PM
Well that's the thing, right now I don't feel like there's a REASON to put an update. It's playable, there's no bugs, no huge broken classes. That, plus the lack of stuff for me to add (rather than tweak), is putting me off making a new release. There's about 5-6 tweaks, that's about it. If I had new maps and such, the update would be more appealing for me to finish, and more appealing for people to check it out.

Also I guess I need to test it out too
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 16, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
Hmm... Well i'd say the constant use of riotgun and said users winning almost all the time is a rather large issue. Reminds me of the various issues along the way we had... Meh, instakilling lightning arrows with 100+ damage, the 3 ice arrow spread that dealt some impressive damage partly, machinegun was once a utter monstrocity raping everyone in sight, hmm... The ghouls on the other hand seemed... acceptable, though Jitter got the nerfhammer in the face atleast twice, and the ghouls generally got upgrades from time to time...

Ah... Interesting times indeed. I'd still say, coming from a Jitterskull user, the riotgun is a SERVERE annoyance and threat, personally i'd love an update ASAP, but whatever works. Maybe if i had inspiration to make an map for GVH, but i want to make one what matches say, GVH31 in effort. Meh, i'm too ambitious for simple maps it seems. :P

Oh, some people are begging for riotgun/sjas nerfs, and would love a choke buff too, i know some people who apparently like to use choke, though he sucks, i guess he's decent to play and merely needs a buff. Aside sneak attacks, choke's good at those. Even i cant notice it. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 16, 2010, 02:40:10 PM
I've been playing a lot lately and it's been pretty balanced. This Marine onslaught I keep hearing from you apparently does not exist, or it happens very late where I'm already in bed.

Come to think of it, we are talking TLMS right? I completely forgot about TDM. I do want to balance that but I don't know what would need balancing (I'm guessing Sjas and Cyborg maybe), but I don't enjoy it as much so I can't tell cause I'm always in the TLMS server.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Ivory on September 16, 2010, 02:48:15 PM
I really doubt you could have both TLMS and TDM both balanced. They play so differently.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 16, 2010, 02:49:03 PM
Of course, which is why I would make it so if the game type was TDM, the classes would slightly change properties ;)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 16, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Spamming explosives, dieing, and spamming them again is a popular TDM strategy that's basically trading blows while giving more blows then you take. Maybe that could use some edits.

Well, not entirely sure about the other ghoul classes, but if i'm fighting the marine abusers who know how to aim so well they could CATCH ME WHILE I MOVE, frankly, i got no chance. And i'm damn good at my class, but thats just outta my class's reach. Not that it gets me to pick another class, as just about anything else aside lightning hunters are an easy lunch, ussually.

Speaking of TDM again, i guess Sjas would be the main problem, its fast, it doesnt have much of a delay, it can dodge anything, rush through things and kill anything along the way, hmm... Creepers on the other hand suck in TDM, Jitterskulls do a little less frags in total then an equal Sjas, and the other ghouls are just... normal for TDM.

The humans, hmm... to keep it short, the only things of significance are...
* The Marine's raw power and long-range ability, 10 grenades and he gets them all back on respawn, too. Highly spammable.
* The Steam cannon is as spammable as the grenades, sure to take out atleast one ghoul before dieing. Maybe two.

I wouldnt call the cyborg too cheap in TDM, he's slow, an easy target - especially for Sjas - and his projectile spam is highly dodgeable. Ground and air ghouls alike. Well i'd say TDM doesnt need significant changes if any at all. Though common thing that happens is due to the massive close range firepower of the ghouls, and note that the humans do not posses easy to pull off instakills, and they'll get swarmed and eaten before the ghoul wave is fully deflected. Of course they keep coming back so they HAVE to withdraw, lose their camping spot, or whatever possible defensive strategy they have.

My suggestion is to possibily give them a more... TDM-resistant defence that is not too annoying, or overpowered, to combat. Could be as simple as giving them a second chance, an one-time emergency teleport, other escape methods, TDM-unique items, ah, the possibilities... Or merely increase their defence during TDM, armor can have damage reducing properties, such as damagefactors and such, no?

And an idea that just popped up, how about taking a few of the marine's grenades in TDM and replacing those with a special grenade that does a large explosion of sorts that only knocks away people, mostly to deter creepers and keep other things away. Without damage, of course.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Zocker on September 16, 2010, 07:31:56 PM
Yes the grenades are a problem in TDM, how about changing them to say 4 but you gain 1 additional nade for each kill?
So a Marine can't really spam around but still doesn't run out of them if he survives longer.

But the worst thing about nades is when you charge them and throw them against a ceiling so they will bounce off and explode on the surface like a bomb with no chance to evade.
That is just overpowered.

Also the MG is too weak (TLMS, and TDM), consumes a lot of ammo, by far not as strong as the Riot and for long distances you just use pistols...

Of course the Engineer can spam with his steam cannons but I'd suggest to add a little "cooldown" (or a heat meter idk) so you can't spam with them around.

The Cyborg, Hunter and Ghostbuster are fine imo, maybe speed up the Cyb Plasma projectiles and decrease the damage a little bit.

The Sjas itself in TDM is not the problem but a good Ghoul Player can frag much faster because he doesn't have long to wait until he reaches the next human. Because of the respawning players you will always find some in short time thus the more chaotic gameplay in TDM makes it even more easy to ambush them.

I think the Jitter is a bit too weak if many people are playing. Not the attack or the HP the Jit is the problem, it is the digest that makes him very woundable.
Especially in TDM where more people are playing is he an "easy to frag Ghoul" without fear to get crunched for this time.

I think many of you underrate the Creeper in TDM, you might think it's easy to kill him and a Creeper won't make much frags... you are wrong.
As mentioned before TDM is much more chaotic and since the Creeper is already in TLMS difficult to detect he can ambush humans easily.
Of course he doesn't make as many frags as a Jitter or a Sjas but on the other hand he doesn't die that often.

Well I'm not a fan of the Choke, but if you give him the bite regen and reduce the charging time of the bloodball a bit I'm sure that I'd give him a shot (espacially in TDM).

I think the Frostbite is a bit unbalanced, not overpowered but unbalanced.
Because of his slowness he is absolutely helpless against long range attacks but in small rooms (like the ventilation shaft in GvH11) he is overpowered as hell.
I know that he is a close combat Ghoul but I would change the Breath attack bit to make him less overpowered in rooms and more dangerous by speeding the chills up and lowering the damage.

I mean on some maps it would be plain stupid to play as a Frostbite because the bite is a melee attack only and the chills are very easy to dodge (they could be more accurate too).
I don't know if that is intended to be but could you lesser or eliminate the cooldown of the breath attack?
Because if you're attacking with it but a human comes closer and you'd like to finish him with the bite attack you can't attack with the bite for about 2 seconds after you stopped attacking with the breath because of the mentioned cooldown above.

Just some things I wanted to say ^^
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 17, 2010, 07:05:16 AM
still want a little hunter buff, by far the weakest human now.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 17, 2010, 02:39:47 PM
*cough* guaranteed 2-hit railgun at spawn *cough* instakill ice *cough* effecient and spammable creeper deterrent *cough* *almost chokes*

Seriously. They're all strong in one way or another. If you want weakness, well, look at the ghostbuster's puny default gun, useless blood spreader, easily dodged echo gun, though if he's lucky to get a creeper or jitter upgrade things go his way.

Hunter is absolutely not the weakest. Infact, probaly the second most powerfull human currently. Just the riotgun outmatches him in every way currently.
Ah, and what about engineer... Once he's outta his other weapons, all he has left is a nailgun that sucks versus creepers and is reasonably dodgeable. You're just spoiled after that 100+ damage by lightning arrow business, and now a class outshines the hunter too (marine), he's absolutely FINE now at best. Though personally i'd love a damage reduce of lightning on Jitterskulls as missing is a thing you can do only twice on these overpowered bastards.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 17, 2010, 05:37:25 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
*cough* guaranteed 2-hit railgun at spawn *cough* instakill ice *cough* effecient and spammable creeper deterrent *cough* *almost chokes*

Says you, one who has never played as a human. I can't explain this to someone who never joins the other side.
Only thing he needs is less slowing down when an arrow is loaded, right now you only can get one shot off before anything reaches your face.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 18, 2010, 11:27:22 AM
Ah, figured you wanted the overpowered 100+ damage lightning and stuff back. Perhaps more shots aint that bad if they're being approached, maybe... They still shouldnt be able to run AND shoot like gods in the old times though.

Maybe a less slower delay actually works, but he is by no means the weakest, still. Go see people like Ammar using it for its lightning arrow, pretty damn powerfull. Just about the limit i'd say, though personally i'd love less lightning damage on Jitterskull when he's crunching, after all, just about anyone can aim an lightning arrow at you from any distance when you're stuck. If they did 50+ damage(on stuck jitterskulls) that wouldnt be as bad, no!?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 18, 2010, 03:04:54 PM
no i do not, FYI i requested marine and hunter nerfs because killing got to easy. I've never seen you call a jitter nerf back when it was more rape. And i don't play marine anymore atm because it got boring being op. I play cyborg and hunter sometimes. And he still is the weakest human, unless you go play human for a while your opinion on them is void.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 18, 2010, 05:56:30 PM
YOUR opinion is void as you virtually never play anymore. You are sorely mistaken about mine being void, as i FIGHT these humans who can be extremely overpowered to merely being a free frag.
Its all about the best result they can archive, and if that is balanced, currently with the marine, well, its obvious. Fortunately its getting some kind of nerf. As for the Hunter, why... He's fine! Or atleast an fine enemy, one mistake, and you will lose 70 or more hp.

I'm starting to question your ability to judge and your skill if you keep making these statements. Well, sure, he might have some use for less delay, but as long as he is in one piece and can shoot, he has all these abovementioned abilities to easily destroy foes with if they simply got the skill!

Aside your nothing more then void opinion, a good hunter who can escape ussually does so before he can pull off another shot. Why, it seems fair enough, that he has to move slower and concentrate on shooting with the more powerfull weapons. Maybe that is an intended strategy, hit and run. Maybe all he needs is a little more run speed but still his current or even slower delay.

In any case reconsider who you're calling void. Its not like you play anymore. So how about this? The suggestion that the hunter gets some more running speed but keeps his delay. That way, on your misguided part, it should be reasonable he can shoot, run a moment, and pull off some more shots. And on the ghoul's part, they will have to either intercept him while running or take him down when he's taking any possible risks of stopping and shooting.
Of course you're just going to disregard this completely and call it void, arent you. Meh, he'll never change.

Though i'll admit i never really bothered to call the Jitterskull overpowered back then, though sometimes i think these nerfs are overkill. You're guilty of the same things though, probaly. Hmm... Yeah, you are.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on September 18, 2010, 08:15:40 PM
Quote from: "CarThief"
Maybe all he needs is a little more run speed but still his current or even slower delay.
Next time you play GVH. Play as creeper and try to take you a hunter, 1v1.

Hunter is fine.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 19, 2010, 02:37:41 AM
I love the debate, but keep it civil. I see some strong emotional investment in the opinions and facts presented here. A rule of thumb when debating is that if you opponent isn't willing to concede then don't bother.

Here is some references

Top tier Hunter players in GVH


List may vary and I might add more if there's proof.

Do I personally find Hunter to be weak? Not in the least. I can run even with chokes, floor them, floor jitterd, easily kill creepers, toe to toe with sjas, and possibly outfight Frostbite as one. I see no reason to rebalance him.. at all.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 19, 2010, 08:39:46 AM
Because you don't see me doesn't mean i don't play. Fact is against good players the slow down only gives you one chance to fire, i've said it before ice and fire have a lot of damage but require on luck to kill something it's not consistent. Sure a one hit kill might be frustrating but it's mainly luck. There is no way you can successfully predict a good player, just predict and hope he runs into it. And if he doesn't your dead. Every human has the possibility to run and shoot, the hunter has to run to a safe spot first shoot and then run again to get some distance because the slow down is that massive, and this is utter rape on small maps or even on big ones. Hence i ask for less slowdown (or the slowdown kicks in after you've been holding the arrow on the bow for a while like in some earlier version). His weapon is more powerful but it's also the hardest weapon to hit anything with ingame, combined with the slowdown.. You don't see people leading the scoreboard anymore with hunter but you do with any other class (mainly marine), unless everybody else on that team is a terrible player.
FYI hunters and cyborgs are my main health source when playing as a creeper to tackle the harder classes. Cyborg balls are slow and hunter using fire need to load an arrow slow down massively and are a free frag with all that delay. Only marines are hard to kill as a creeper with all those nades.

And have you ever played hunter online once CT? Just try it, and you'll see what i'm talking about.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 19, 2010, 10:58:35 AM
Well maybe i'd try though i'm not that fond of fighting a certain specific ghoul... :P
I still fight them though, and i basically consider that delay to be a weak point to strike back at them, i mean, damn, in the early times no-one could even scratch them because he was too fast. Then again, in those times we probaly didnt have Creeper balls either, so that made things only worse.

I'd still say he's not the weakest though. If you want weak classes, try the ghostbuster, traps are easily avoided, main weapon is garbage compared to some of the other human's weapons, though once he upgrades he may become an serious threat, oh well, thats something he gotta earn, thus i dont really complain about his bone cannon. Wrong usage gets him killed anyway.
Well... Thats from my observation on the ghoul team's side, fighting the humans at various skill levels, or just spectating them if i'm not in the mood to play or died due some stupid lightning arrow or bullet in LMS. I rarely get killed by anything else. :P
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Blox on September 19, 2010, 04:51:18 PM
I'm still standing by the idea of severely reducing Sjas' damage, but speeding him up by quite a bit.
Since then, he would be some kind of 'support' class, instead of some insta-killing shitthatcanbeapaintohit.

And making ghost-traps and proton rays do extra damage on him would be a nice thing too..

BECAUSE HE'S A GHOST!
..Who ya gonna' call again?
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 19, 2010, 05:42:26 PM
He is already getting a range reduction. Sjas can pretty much be a deciding factor of a team though.

But so can marines and cyborgs. :x
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Crystal King on September 19, 2010, 06:35:34 PM
Honestly, hunter isn't even close to weak. If you can hit a Sjas head on with all your ice arrows, you can usually kill it instantly that way. If only most hit, you can just switch to normal arrows while backing away, and hit 'em a couple times to finish him off. The only thing I ever have trouble with hitting is Creepers, but doesn't every class (except Ghostbuster) have that kind of trouble?
Quote
I'd still say he's not the weakest though. If you want weak classes, try the ghostbuster
Are you kidding? Ghostbuster is the anti-Creeper. One or two traps spells death for any creeper that decides to come close. Also, the upgrade you get from Choke is an incredibly awesome close-ranged weapon, making it almost perfect for fending of anything that likes to come close... which is just about anything on the ghoul team...
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Ivory on September 19, 2010, 06:57:58 PM
Ultimately, Classes revolve around ones personal skill with them. One person could find the class unsuitable for them, while others can be death gods with them. The Hunter being one of those cases. A truly unbalanced class would be one that is universally cheap. Anyone could pick it up and dominate with the class or anyone can learn how to use exploits,etc.

Though when it comes down to it, personal skill vs personal skill.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: TERRORsphere on September 19, 2010, 07:21:56 PM
Quote from: "Ivory"
Though when it comes down to it, personal skill vs personal skill.
Apart from marine. Marine's shotgun's reload time should be the same as the SSG in Doom 2.

Also, the explode radius for the grenades need to be reduced.

If this happened, true good Marine players will barely suffer but the noobs will suffer  :mrgreen: .
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 19, 2010, 07:34:19 PM
Indeed the Marine is an exceptional case. Thus i urge Cutman all the time to update it as it simply RUINS the game to even play against one. Especially as Jitterskull.

I'm all up for other Marine nerfs though aside the riotgun i personally dont have trouble with anything else and dont need a nerf on say, grenades. Though that bouncing from the roof to floor and instant explode trick is notable and possibily needs some work, as its VERY powerfull, i know as i saw it happen. Prepare grenade, make it go faster, Sjas approaches, release, BOOM, dead sjas.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 20, 2010, 11:19:14 AM
Quote from: "Ivory"
Ultimately, Classes revolve around ones personal skill with them. One person could find the class unsuitable for them, while others can be death gods with them. The Hunter being one of those cases. A truly unbalanced class would be one that is universally cheap. Anyone could pick it up and dominate with the class or anyone can learn how to use exploits,etc.

Though when it comes down to it, personal skill vs personal skill.

Not anymore though, hunter doesn't pay off as well compared to the other classes (not even including marine.)
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 20, 2010, 11:57:35 AM
I have to admit, my Hunter hit and run tactics don't quite work too well as they used to!
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2010, 01:57:26 PM
How often do you play, Cut? ;x

Quote from: "Carthief"
hough that bouncing from the roof to floor and instant explode trick is notable and possibily needs some work, as its VERY powerfull, i know as i saw it happen. Prepare grenade, make it go faster, Sjas approaches, release, BOOM, dead sjas.

No. That is actually a skill shot.

Quote from: "Crystal King"
Something about Ghostbuster being ultimate anti-Creeper

Only in certain maps.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CutmanMike on September 20, 2010, 02:04:34 PM
Almost every day if there's a server up. More often recently because I've been trying to pimp a GVH:CTF server up
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 20, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
I daresay, its more cheapness, less skill, when it comes to that specific trick, considering its an extremely powerfull explosion and all you need is a low roof for it, normally grenades can be avoided once noticed, well, if you're fast anyway. This trick comes with the complete disability to avoid it, making, if it hits, a VERY painfull if not instakilling attack.

I'm all fine with grenades as long as you can dodge them, but... Hitscan was bad enough, now we have to deal with undodgeable grenades too!?
By all means reconsider your opinion, one simple approach, one bit of bad luck, and you're dead without ever being shot by their riotguns. Not a single class has an area of effect that just triggers instantly with such extreme damage.

Damn... The marine has everything.

Edit: I'm sure you wouldnt like it if a marine dropped a grenade on your head if you're a Sjas and it instantly exploded, thus killing you instantly. I fail to see any fairness about this extreme and instant damage trick. Aside the fact humans in general already have a hard time fending off ghouls coming for them in the fastest way possible. Though that shouldnt be a one man's work. But teamwork...
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2010, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: "Carthief"
A bunch of stuff about marines

I didn't read the entirety of your post because I know what it consist of. I am just not going to buy that the cooked grenade wall/ceiling/floor tricks is cheap. It isn't. When a marine player has to wait x amount of time to even execute that against the assortment of fast ghouls (Chokes, Jitters, Sjas) or stealth creepers then the payoff is worth it. The cooked grenade doesn't work on all players or at every situation (you're not factoring in personal skill, random damage, lag shield) so it's just mainly your own folly to fall for it.

The marine isn't the cure all of humans considering that ghouls still beat humans a lot of the time. It's just the riotgun, relax.

Quote from: "Carthief"
I'm sure you wouldnt like it if a marine dropped a grenade on your head if you're a Sjas and it instantly exploded, thus killing you instantly. I fail to see any fairness about this extreme and instant damage trick.

OH HEY! JUST LIKE HOW GHOULS CAN INSTANTLY KILL HUMANS IN ONE SHOT ALL THE TIME!
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 20, 2010, 07:06:36 PM
You dont have to degrade yourself by stating that. Of course they one-hit things, they're melee classes against viciously powerfull ranged classes. If the majority didn't, well... That would make things difficult.
Edit: Ghouls put themselves at risk too when melee attacking. Compared to using the grenades on distance somehow.

Also, the waiting is rarely an issue for one with good ears, most ghouls tend to make some noise, especially Sjas.

If they all started using this grenade tactic i'm sure that would turn the tables around, well, with proper use atleast, it never ceases to amuse me when Ammar suicides with his explosives. :P
In short, its possibily a little too powerfull for its own good; I dont care about the grenade in its normal use one single bit. Maybe if it can be altered somehow...
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Mobius on September 20, 2010, 11:36:24 PM
Quote from: "Carthief"
You don't have to degrade yourself by stating that?

How am I degrading myself?

Quote from: "Carthief"
Of course they one-hit things, they're melee classes against viciously powerfull ranged classes.

Jitter and Frostbite make unconventional use of their melee abilities, especially Jitter.

I think it is fair that humans have some form of fighting back against the speed and instant kill of MOST ghoul classes.

Quote from: "Carthief"
If they all started using this grenade tactic i'm sure that would turn the tables around, well, with proper use atleast, it never ceases to amuse me when Ammar suicides with his explosives. :P

That logic alone debunks your entire post then if Ammar kills himself attempting that trick (and many others do from time to time).

Quote from: "Carthief"
I dont care about the grenade in its normal use one single bit. Maybe if it can be altered somehow...

It won't. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: CarThief on September 21, 2010, 02:35:41 PM
Seems a little too effecient for its cost and time, but oh well. Its not like you need to aim it perfectly like ice arrows to do the instant kill, aside the possibility to damage yourself (and make yourself slower if holding it too long), it seems without much of an disadvantadge.

Meh, atleast its somewhat useless when suprise attacked. The whole Ammar thing is an unlrelated remark on how amusing it is when he blows himself up, hehe... Ah, never gets old...

Hmm... Atleast there's no new flaws, tricks or bugs popping up. All it needs is an update to make the gameplay more fair and amusing, as damn, playing against good marines is pure hell. Especially when your attack renders you defenceless. There's simply no escape, no chance of dodging, nothing but a three strike and you're out system, if you're lucky...
I'd almost be tempted to make an map, if i had the inspiration, hmm... Though without a good layout... Meh.
Title: Re: Updating GVH soon - Gimmie yo requests
Post by: Frits on September 21, 2010, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
I have to admit, my Hunter hit and run tactics don't quite work too well as they used to!

Proof of my argument I tell you!