Only do what you think is best. That one day in that one Zombie Horde server, you called us (Me, Ken, Etc.) the "awesome community". I can guarantee that no longer stands, but I myself would enjoy having you back.
Quote from: "Ivory"ignoring pride and friendships to remain as neutral as possible
I'm afraid that although this is true for Sora, not so much for LlamaHombre.
Some of you may know about this, for it was not long ago. In fact, it was in the merry merry month of May.
I was just being an average person in the Cutstuff Community Chat on Skype. (Wat IV to be specific) when some people singled me out; a certain group of prideful people: this group included (but is not limited to) LlamaHombre, Kenkoru, Roc's Creation (Tesseractal/Ice-IX), Red (Red Eyes/Lag Man) and thatguy74.
These people often called me derogatory names, such as "Huge Dicks". It was often of great annoyance that I would hang my virtual head in shame and take the abuse like a punching bag.
I have also seen LlamaHombre, this moderator "unaffected by pride" so you say, casually insult others like it was no big deal. He often listens to his friends before actually doing anything, and fights to keep his high status in this community.
And with that, I challenge your promotion of LlamaHombre to global moderator status. I believe it is time that those 10 people with huge egos and shameful bullying tendencies stop ruling the community and preventing others from enjoying it as it should be enjoyed. I may not be the member of highest status in this community, but I believe there are others who will stand by me in this calling out.
A lot of this bullying behaviour happens outside of the forums on skype or steam, therefore impossible to moderate, and potentially less threatening. Problems should probably be resolved privately, but for the priders to chip in and help out wouldn't go amiss.
Do you trust a newly-promoted admin who is surrounded – in an elite Skype chat where only the aforementioned select individuals and their closest friends are present – by the depraved, indifferent judgments these individuals pass on the community?
Paladin #ExtraPerson says: Galaxy why are you in Outer Haven with Roc and all the people coller than you
Paladin Daisy says: Nos says that the only reason you're in OUter Haven
Paladin Daisy says: is because you share animu moemoe shit interests with Roc
Paladin Daisy says: and that he's too blind to see that you're a fucking halfwit
But from what I am understanding, me hosting a skype chat and other people hosting skype chats is causing the community to fall apart? I'm sorry, but that doesn't quite make sense.
(Also, "Little to no time on the forums"? More than half of the list you've made are people who are constantly on the forums...)
If I do, it might take a while since I have tons of ideas but I'm generally bad at organizing them.
I'm going to speak my mind here, as I've tried to maintain this community long before I received this green name. Whether or not I believe I actually succeeded is something I will go into later.
I feel Skype has corroded this community, but I also feel it's helped preserve it.
I feel we're misusing it, and as such we're growing apart and have drawn a clean line right down the middle of our community between two shades of beliefs, akin to political parties. From what I've seen and heard, those added to the main central Skype chats have ended up not having enough willpower to change their minds about a topic. These people would be those included in the Foxdie/Wat chats, and the current "Cool Kids" chat run by Dr. Freeman. I myself am especially guilty of not giving people second chances, and I feel that Human Destroyer helped me realize this. Speaking of him, I feel him, his friends, and most newcomers make up the other party. Those are the ones who are trying to be friendly and have gotten sick of the abuse.
Quite frankly, I think they're right.
I'm going to use the dead remains of a ghost here when I bring up the topic of the late MegaLAD. He and his brothers received constant abuse from the Foxdie Party and as such it sparked multiple cases of controversy throughout the forums. They, and I at the time, never gave him a second chance. Human Destroyer's Party, on the other hand, accepted him and allowed his company. Nowadays, this man is known as TheClayman6. I've seen improvement out of him personality-wise and if he's reading this I hope he understands how sorry I really am for treating him and others like him the way I have.
If only the others would believe me.
I wish to know what Human Destroyer's Party thinks about this community and how a compromise could be made. This is a Mega Man fan board, and we're treating it as if Mega Man fans aren't welcome. We shouldn't be asking for the fourth coming of Jesus Christ like we have in the past. We're all human. All of us have flaws, some moreso than others, but that's no reason to turn them away completely. This is where the Foxdie Party is being moronic. We all make stupid mistakes and we have no right to bash each other over them.
I'll save those of your who don't want self pessimism the details: this is the end of my post. Feel free to respond or remark on anything I said, I'd love to hear what you have to say.
I feel there's just some things I can't hold in anymore.(click to show/hide)
From what I've seen and heard, those added to the main central Skype chats have ended up not having enough willpower to change their minds about a topic. These people would be those included in the Foxdie/Wat chats, and the current "Cool Kids" chat run by Dr. Freeman. I myself am especially guilty of not giving people second chances, and I feel that Human Destroyer helped me realize this. Speaking of him, I feel him, his friends, and most newcomers make up the other party. Those are the ones who are trying to be friendly and have gotten sick of the abuse.Hit right on the fucking nail.
Quite frankly, I think they're right.
I'm going to use the dead remains of a ghost here when I bring up the topic of the late MegaLAD. He and his brothers received constant abuse from the Foxdie Party and as such it sparked multiple cases of controversy throughout the forums. They, and I at the time, never gave him a second chance. Human Destroyer's Party, on the other hand, accepted him and allowed his company. Nowadays, this man is known as TheClayman6. I've seen improvement out of him personality-wise and if he's reading this I hope he understands how sorry I really am for treating him and others like him the way I have.
If only the others would believe me.
Things Sora saidI fully accept that Skype helps to bind together some players. I also accept that plenty of players don't find MM8BDM fun anymore. What I'm not going to accept is that there are people in those chats who have no interest in MM8BDM and make it difficult for those who do still enjoy the game. We could pick up more players if it weren't for these chats for reasons mentioned earlier, and those big releases are made so much less satisfying when you go right back to a game like TF2 or LoL.
"Give people a chance, even if you previously judged their beings as the equivalent to bioprocessed human fecal matter." This is the trueriesit thing I've read in the whole topic. I've been wanting to become friends with people like daveris and stardroid venus and such, but I haven't had the oppurtunity to. Neither of them have been added here, I haven't been added to any chats with either of them. They were in the TF2 chat at one point, and it's easy to become friends with people with an easily accessible common interest, but they were booted out shortly afterI'm glad to see there are some of you who can understand what I'm talking about. Yeah, Skype can be the devil's spawn, but only if you really want it. In the right hands, it might end up making the community stronger, both with the "old vets" and with newcomers entering the game. I'm sure we'll find a way to handle Skype and the like by the time v3 rolls around. I'm sort of looking forward to the (few, but I'll take 'em) new players who will show up for it.
To me, the use of Skype in the community has extended far beyond MM8BDM. Aside from specific chats regarding MM8BDM projects (dev chats for CSCC RNC, etc.), I see Skype being used as a means for people who became friends through MM8BDM to maintain this friendship while playing other games. Hell, I'm not sure if most of the people in the 'main' chats even play MM8BDM anymore; I see groups of people running off to play TF2 more than I see people run off to play MM8BDM. Not that I disapprove of this; I personally am impressed by the level of tight-knit-ness (for a lack of better word) these folks have developed.
People join this community as we speak, not to mention allthe players that don't join. Give MM8BDM a chance.
"Give people a chance, even if you previously judged their beings as the equivalent to bioprocessed human fecal matter." This is the trueriesit thing I've read in the whole topic. I've been wanting to become friends with people like daveris and stardroid venus and such, but I haven't had the oppurtunity to. Neither of them have been added here, I haven't been added to any chats with either of them. They were in the TF2 chat at one point, and it's easy to become friends with people with an easily accessible common interest, but they were booted out shortly after
but if i must say it, i find the decay in the community since the day Cutstuff needed to be moderated and kept in order, rather than it being a community where one would just hang out and be thrilled by the new updates.Coming from a person who randomly posted things like single post "meow" in threads. What you failed to grasp is that behavior was never accepted to begin with. If Mike saw that, he would have warned and scolded you for it too. You only view it that way because I'm far more of a forum watch-dog than Mike was. If Cutstuff wasn't moderated, then the community would have fallen short ages ago. Trolls would be given full reign to what they please and arguments would breakout as a daily occurrence. You simply cannot expect the place to be lawless and not have it abused. That's why there are moderators such as myself to strive to keep the place orderly. --Just keep that in mind and remember, order has to exist to balance out the chaos.
1. You made a rather large opening post, but what I fail to see is any suggestions on how things could improve. What are you trying to accomplish by starting this topic without any specific goal to work towards? You simply called the entire nature of communication corrupt.
2. You (as I interpret it) also act as if I'm influenced by Roc's Chat (or any other chat I'm in). Yes, I'll listen to them on the matter, just as much as I would listen to any community matter that someone shares with me. But have I ever been a person to be easily swayed? No. I think after all my years on Cutstuff, that should be clear. I've never been someone to take 'sides'. I simply follow what I believe is right and strive to to act with good intentions. I'm not a hero, and I'm not a villain.
3. Skype has allowed the members of Cutstuff to grow closer and become friends. Something that isn't feasible on forums or in-game alone. It's convenient, it allows us to stay connected. But this isn't unique to Cutstuff, just about any forum, game, etc does something similar. It may not be skype in all cases, but don't people want to connect and find friendships with each other in an easy to manage way?
4. With the above said, It was obvious that the community split into may different groups, wasn't it? A feeling of belonging is something sought after by most people. You want to be around people you like, and agree with. With that being said, and proven by this thread itself, not everyone agrees with the other. Groups come into conflict for that reason mainly. Part of my job is to stay objective and meditate between the different sides. And I do trust that my global moderator staff would strive to do the same.
Likewise, you have to take action to change things King Dumb, you can't expect to simply make a thread have the problem fix itself.
Do you trust a head global moderator who associates constantly with this decadent group of social dominators, and to whom Roc’s Creation referred as a “feral dog” with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?My original statement referred to all of the global moderators. All of them (past and present) have at one point or another gone "off the rails" and have to be put in line by Ivory. Remember when a dozen IPs were posted on the forums? Or when SmashBro was banned for a forum game post? I used this in defense of Llama before: I do trust Ivory. He isn't always right either, but he's light-years ahead of the other mods in terms of keeping it together. In the time I've seen them all of the mods have had to "fall back" on Ivory's own judgment when their own has failed. I trust Ivory because quite likely, he is the only one who can do that.
Do you trust a group of individuals who avidly and viciously reject competition, experimentally shown to inject at least temporary life into a community that most will say is declining, with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?No. Now, look closely: Which part of the community rejects competition? (I don't.) Is it really any single faction? The people who play on Hotel RP maps, who only play TF2 against each other - do they belong to one group? I think it's actually all of them, which is why your point doesn't really matter. Messatsu banned SR50; are him and the people on his servers part of the skype oligarchy? He made it physically impossible for anyone competitive to use his servers. (Unless I played the game without arrow keys, which is worthless.) MM8BDM is primarily a multiplayer game, ergo it is dependent on the people who play it. The people who play it now bore me to tears. What are you going to do about that? Even if the people you don't like, the seven skype lords of decadence left or lost influence, would it really change anything? So what if you have a more friendlier skype chat? The reason this game has become anti-competitive is BECAUSE it's community-based. The people I enjoyed dueling were never a part of that chat. When I wanted to duel someone, I went to funcrusher. When I dueled Kombat, Rawk, -Ran, etc., I had fun. I never talked to any of them as part of a "community" - it doesn't matter. (Now I could duel five "community" members just to get OJ, who I then have to play on a garbage MM7 map. Pretty much 100% of the time. I get tired of Turbo Man and Spring Man showing up in map rotations.)
Allow me to go off on a tangent. Bear in mind that the moderators are all, shockingly, still only human. We all do mistakes. So far I think that the administration has had an excellent overall track record, I'm willing to let a single mistake slide as long as they realize it's a mistake. We can't judge everyone by every single act of decadence they had ever committed in the past, we need to be able to forgive, eventually.Quote from: "King Dumb"Do you trust a head global moderator who associates constantly with this decadent group of social dominators, and to whom Roc’s Creation referred as a “feral dog” with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?My original statement referred to all of the global moderators. All of them (past and present) have at one point or another gone "off the rails" and have to be put in line by Ivory. Remember when a dozen IPs were posted on the forums? Or when SmashBro was banned for a forum game post? I used this in defense of Llama before: I do trust Ivory. He isn't always right either, but he's light-years ahead of the other mods in terms of keeping it together. In the time I've seen them all of the mods have had to "fall back" on Ivory's own judgment when their own has failed. I trust Ivory because quite likely, he is the only one who can do that.
My original statement referred to all of the global moderators. All of them (past and present) have at one point or another gone "off the rails" and have to be put in line by Ivory. Remember when a dozen IPs were posted on the forums? Or when SmashBro was banned for a forum game post? I used this in defense of Llama before: I do trust Ivory. He isn't always right either, but he's light-years ahead of the other mods in terms of keeping it together. In the time I've seen them all of the mods have had to "fall back" on Ivory's own judgment when their own has failed. I trust Ivory because quite likely, he is the only one who can do that.
And that's why I think Ivory had a sort of reluctance with the mods he chose. I figure he looked for the attributes that were similar to him, but largely came up short in this community. My guess is that anyone he picked would basically just be like Korby. It'd be nice to have mods that were more like Ivory, but it'd also be impossible. That's why I think you have no solution for this problem: You don't like the administration, but you also don't like everyone else qualified because they're also friends. There isn't really much room for who can be a mod, but it isn't just about being mods - in things like this people always fall back on people they know. The "LA voiceover community is very close-knit" - referring to the majority of Skullgirls' VA being pulled from Squid Girl. There might BE a person who is more qualified to be a mod or admin... but none of us would know. Having a high degree of temperance / impartiality is important, but being able to expect it is also important. I trust Llama to act in accordance with Ivory's wishes.
Cutstuff, do you trust a group of individuals who spend little to no time active on the forums and even less time experience the community in-game with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?
Do you trust a group of individuals who avidly and viciously reject competition, experimentally shown to inject at least temporary life into a community that most will say is declining, with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?
Do you trust a head global moderator who associates constantly with this decadent group of social dominators, and to whom Roc’s Creation referred as a “feral dog” with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?
Do you trust a newly-promoted admin who is surrounded – in an elite Skype chat where only the aforementioned select individuals and their closest friends are present – by the depraved, indifferent judgments these individuals pass on the community?
Do you trust a group of individuals who, in a medium where they cannot be punished and in the presence of the head global moderator speak these words after removing Obelisk from their “community chat”, with one of the community’s most important platforms of interaction?:
Skype I don't think has as much weight on this forum as you'd think.
You can get more people to play this game and to form their own communities. You won't get it just by complaining about a skype chat.
Couldn't these controversies be equally as possible had everyone just stayed on Cutstuff?
All things considered, and correct me if I'm wrong, Skype isn't the problem. Those who misuse it are.
Secondly, If you see a problem rising, take a step back and look for a resolution, rather than trying to point fingers at someone or something.
I'm going to use the dead remains of a ghost here when I bring up the topic of the late MegaLAD. He and his brothers received constant abuse from the Foxdie Party and as such it sparked multiple cases of controversy throughout the forums. They, and I at the time, never gave him a second chance. Human Destroyer's Party, on the other hand, accepted him and allowed his company. Nowadays, this man is known as TheClayman6. I've seen improvement out of him personality-wise and if he's reading this I hope he understands how sorry I really am for treating him and others like him the way I have.
Cutstuff isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship. Not an evil type of dictatorship, but ultimately, what Mike says goes. We choose to listen to what you, the people think and suggest, but we don't have to.
Otherwise, you seem to have quite largely missed my entire point. Perhaps you should dispel the preconceptions you had when you read the thread, you should read the original post (or maybe the entire thread) again. I do not doubt Ivory's ability to administrate (and moderate) capably and objectively.
Do you trust a newly-promoted admin who is surrounded – in an elite Skype chat where only the aforementioned select individuals and their closest friends are present – by the depraved, indifferent judgments these individuals pass on the community?
...moderators should decide mostly ON THEIR OWN and act IN COOPERATION WITH OTHER MODERATORS only: they should trust their own gut and wit, and despite them being capable of hearing other people's opinions on a matter and take them in consideration, a moderator is expected to be capable of having their own opinion that takes the wellbeing of the community in mind.
Social escalating? Cool kids? Skype elite chats? All cockypop. You're acting like children, for God's sake. Got a problem with the cool kids? Think they have power? They don't have any factual and legitimately given power over this place at all, and any other representation of power they may portray is but a product of the rest of you thinking they DO have power over the community's social aspect: they have authority, but not power.This isn't some phenomenon created exclusively for this site - anywhere you go, you're going to find mean people in this world. I mean, look in any high school anywhere: everybody has their cliques, and there's always a group of kids being jerks. It's always going to happen, and you just have to ignore it. It's only fun to them if you get mad because it's exactly what they want. Of course, it's also going to be plentiful here because lest we forget a good majority of the members here are in high school and thus prone to do this. People are always going to talk about each other behind their backs, and there's almost always going to be people being mean for the Hell of it.
Who's moderating the "official" MM8BDM Skype chat?There is no "Official" MM8BDM thing. OJ tried to make one and added a lot of people, but that easily went to hell.
Who even started the Skype fad?
They don't have any factual and legitimately given power over this place at all, and any other representation of power they may portray is but a product of the rest of you thinking they DO have power over the community's social aspect: they have authority, but not power.
Should this group of people have social authority over the development and growth of our community?
Authority, unlike power, is willingly given. Social authority like this was given to them by the community, and can be easily taken from them. If their authority is handicapping the growth of our community, they cannot keep this authority, as only they would be shaping the community to their liking. No need for banning or casting them out: just stop thinking they have any authority over the community.
If you honesty didn't doubt Ivory's ability, why the heck would you even call it into question? Not only that, but while bringing it into question, you drag in the people Ivory associates in a negative light. Don't give me that "I merely wanted the community's opinion" spiel because it's a lie: the way you phrase a question influences the answers in a huge way, and you purposely phrased your question to get negative answers.
If you move into a new school, you can't expect to just have friends fall into your lap. Sure, you can talk to people in class from time to time, but if you want to actually make friends, you're going to have to make the conscious effort to get to know people, and having an instant, slightly more personal form of communication to do so makes sense. It's also naturally harder for a new person to adjust.
With Skype, many of us have made friends, but all good things have their problems, and the problems addressed here are just some of them. To me, though, the good still outweighs the bad.
Just thought I'd bring up some points that have probably already been brought up.
The "Cool Kids Club" is not the Cutstuff chat. Nowhere is it stated to be that. It's just where a bunch of guys/friends/smashbro hang out.
Cutstuff is not a democracy. The people to whom I address my original post have no legitimate authority to enact change. However, Cutstuff is also not a nation; it is an online community. It is detestable and unintuitive that the way this community is run is not in the best interests of the majority.
Cutstuff isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship. Not an evil type of dictatorship, but ultimately, what Mike says goes. We choose to listen to what you, the people think and suggest, but we don't have to.
Quote from: "Mr. X"If you honesty didn't doubt Ivory's ability, why the heck would you even call it into question? Not only that, but while bringing it into question, you drag in the people Ivory associates in a negative light. Don't give me that "I merely wanted the community's opinion" spiel because it's a lie: the way you phrase a question influences the answers in a huge way, and you purposely phrased your question to get negative answers.
How could you think that telling me not to use a specific argument would invalidate it?
Actually, if I had wanted to influence answers, I would have done one of the two things I just did: use visual cues, or instill a tone of disbelief in the question itself.
Why would I call it into question if I didn't doubt it to begin with? Well, suppose, rather than in question format, I merely stated the information contained in that sentence. How would an average Cutstuff user, who, being an average Cutstuff user, has never been in the mentioned chat, react?
Once again, I merely wish to bring this situation to the community's attention as a standalone issue. Explain to me why I would have phrased my question to encourage negative answers, if I my myself have no doubt in Ivory's ability. If you can't, then one of those two premises must be wrong. Which one is that?
power is in the hands of a select few individuals – LlamaHombre’s “us” – who govern mainstream community Skype usage. This "us" includes a variety of people, but the culprits of the decadence that rule a central part of the Cutstuff organism are named now: LlamaHombre, Korby, Kenkoru, Red, ThatGuyOverThere, Nostalgia, Dr. Freeman. In a positive feedback loop, these individuals feed off the decadence of each other; many of you may find one or two of them very friendly and likable on their own, but together they create a virus that plagues our community.
it's presenting YOUR version of the information to the people of cutstuff, a version which implies an admin is under the influence of people you are declaring to be the problem.
In short, Skype just needs to stop directly having an impact on the community.
Which is why I've already said numerous times that the community should just not take these people seriously.
Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"In short, Skype just needs to stop directly having an impact on the community.
Nah, just point fingers at the mean people and ask them to be more polite.
Or ban Skype.
1.
a country, government, or the form of government in which absolute power is exercised by a dictator.
2.
absolute, imperious, or overbearing power or control.
3.
the office or position held by a dictator.
1.
a person exercising absolute power, especially a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.
2.
(in ancient Rome) a person invested with supreme authority during a crisis, the regular magistracy being subordinated to him until the crisis was met.
3.
a person who authoritatively prescribes conduct, usage, etc.: a dictator of fashion.
4.
a person who dictates, as to a secretary.
1.
to select from a number of possibilities; pick by preference: She chose Sunday for her departure.
2.
to prefer or decide (to do something): He chose to run for election.
3.
to want; desire.
4.
(especially in children's games) to contend with (an opponent) to decide, as by odd or even, who will do something: I'll choose you to see who gets to bat first.