Cutstuff Forum
Cutstuff => Cutstuff Discussion and Feedback => Topic started by: CutmanMike on April 23, 2013, 11:38:06 PM
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So as you may have heard (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=231109#p231109) I've started work on a new project. Of course it's another Doom mod (maybe my last? Probably not). This is taking priority over my other doom works at the moment, including the MM8BDM singleplayer campaign. This doesn't mean I'm done with it, it just means instead of focusing on finishing it as fast as possible, I'll go back to it when I'm taking a break from this one (which will probably be soon as I've spent a few too many hours in photoshop the past few days)!
Some of my older community members may be disappointed to find out it's not a horror themed mod, even though I hinted various times I was going to try another one. It's also not Mega Man related either, just a goold ol mod for Doom 2. It's something I've thought about doing for a while now and after a few tests and realizing that it's possible to do and has the potential to be fun, I figure it has to be made. A lot of content has to be created, and since I want to do this as a solo project it could take a while. Still, I will throw screenshots and teasers when I have something worth showing off. This is all I am willing to show at the moment:
(http://i.imgur.com/ccunxEw.png)
Has nothing to do with MM8BDM, will require Doom2 to play.
Is an action FPS themed mod.
Singleplayer only for now, maybe online co-op eventually if things go well.
Currently has no name, going by Project Trinity at the moment. The name is based on something to do with the game.
Compatible with Zandronum (may change).
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Diablo FPS?? Sounds like it's going to be pretty cool, looking forward to it!
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Requires Doom 2? Mike haven't you learned you should make a game that you can actually sell yet? :ugeek:
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I need more training! And artists. Artists would help a lot.
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Looks like it could be some sort of randomised dungeon thingy. Will it involve the Heretic / Hexen series as well?
EDIT: Wait a minute... I just realised... Project Trinity... Unholy Trinity... could it refer to the Serpent Riders?!
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I need more training! And artists. Artists would help a lot.
Artists?
I'll help do concept art and stuff. I'm kinda good at drawing and this could be GREAT practice. just PM me some ideas you have for areas and i''l get straight to work as soon as i get the request.
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I feel like this is gonna be somthing super awesome. I love GvH (even though im too scared to play it) and MM8BDM so this should be fun as well.
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I may look into buying Doom 2?
If I buy it with Steam, can I still play with doomseeker and such? Just wondering, even though this is singleplayer.
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Yeah, you can. All you need from the steam version is the iwad. Then just use it with a sourceport, Zandronum in this case like you would with MM8BDM.
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If it's gonna have lovely randomized dungeon (room) crawling action then this could be the best thing ever made for Zand/Skulltag. I do hope it is, or atleast allows for people to create their own dungeons if its that kind of game, but the best thing for replayability is good ol randomization, combine that with multiplayer - another high replayability element and you've got PURE GOLD on your hands. GOLD!
I mean, all you need for randomized rooms is make an extremely large grid, of rooms, have a number (like difficulty, room count, whatnot) decide the size of the rooms used and via ACS assign random pathways to various rooms and create rooms randomly, well, perhaps more like partially random, as pure random runs the risk of being unbeatable. This is an absolute ACS nightmare to script though, but i dont really doubt CMM's ACS skills on such matters.
Or perhaps teleportation could play a role instead to ease on room creation (though one might want to make a custom map screen for that scenario, though you might already have done so, judging from the image?).
Man i played too much roguelikes on steam lately, and the odd dungeon crawler, hence these hopefull ideas. :P
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aww man. why can't this be like MM8BDM where you don't need to buy doom... :(
well...
I seriously think this is going to be awesome. although i have no idea whats going to be in it, i've always loved any thing that had to do with magic/swords/amour/rpg-tistic qualities.
well... from what i see of course.
any body hear of Orcs And Elves? it's a nerdy FPS/RPG thing. i think its great(although it was A LITTLE SHORT). and if that was great, and Mike is making this? OH HALE YES IT"LL BE BETTER! Although i haven't played GvH, or ZPortal, or the other games. but I have played MM8BDm, and that is just GREAT! I seriously already can't wait for a demo.
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any body hear of Orcs And Elves?
Heard of it because it ( or at least the phone version) uses the Doom RPG engine.
Ontopic: Hmmm, That screenshot doesn't tell me anything so I'll comment when I get an idea of what this is.
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combine that with multiplayer - another high replayability element and you've got PURE GOLD on your hands. GOLD!
I'm gonna try but there's soooooo much ACS involved that I'm scared Zandronum is going to throw up if I dare launch a server with it. I'll be doing a few online tests with my brother to see how it holds up but it's gonna be a lot-a work...
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Hm, as in crash due to being pushed to its scripting limits, or vomit and lag from the sheer amount of ACS being thrown around? I think having a script that builds rooms (aka texturing, moving floor and ceiling, perhaps some walls, etc) run at the beginning that only does those things shouldnt lag too much. Only lag i tend to see is FPS lag or lag from too many monsters/projectiles/actors that spawn/do stuff, having tons of things lower, raise and retexture shouldnt be too laggy. The less animations involved in placing actors the less laggier i assume doing actor preperations would be too.
Hm, do hope a randomized dungeon system works out, or give people the ability to easily build their own, maybe. Heck if its what i think it is i'd probaly give the randomized dungeon a try myself in spare time if you ever release it. Nothing a large batch of teleportation rooms and semi-randomly assigned teleporter hallways/doors per room with a in-game dungeon map cant fix. :P
Hm, assuming my ACS/DECORATE skills havent completely vanished after such a long time.
And if randomly generated dungeons isnt the plan or not going to make it i'm fairly unsure what beast you're creating that would eat servers raw, but it should probaly work just fine if no constant checks are thrown about, or simply kept limited.
In any case i'm highly looking forward to it, never had a dungeon crawling experience in FPS style before.
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The level generation stuff should work okay, but I'm talking about things like online desyncs and issues with survival multiplayer in general.
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I dont think i've ever seen Zandronum desynch even once, even on the typically laggy US servers or semi-laggy servers. As long as no clientside only stuff like actors is in place i dont think that ever was or will be a problem.
I did hear survival multiplayer being a tad buggy, one person was unable to start Yurei Battle via the multiplayer menu, i think this was due to zandronum not assigning the correct gameplay flags, as doing this manually via the console and enable survival and cooperative did work just fine. Yurei Battle also worked just fine and dandy when hosted online as it bypassed that menu and just used the appropiate commands directly.
I wouldnt know of any other survival-based bugs though, if all else fails, perhaps make a coop mode and create a prison area? ACS could easily teleport players out of the prison area at the start of the game and any latecomers who join would spawn in prison, as well as any respawning players. Though if you're going this route you might want to add an default variable that allows for max retries, or infinite retries, of course.
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I get them all the time when coding interesting monster/boss behaviors.
I've spent all day recoding a lot of things to see how viable this thing will be for multiplayer... and it's not looking good. The fact things like randomization and jump states don't sync up correctly online, and how often I rely on these things to make enemies do things, is making it tough to conclude that it's worth bothering to make it compatible for online play. At least in Zandronum. The netcode in ZDoom is far more precise and doesn't require me reinventing inventory structures just so it displays things on the HUD correctly :(
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Doesn't ZDoom's netcode require a metric shitload of bandwidth and have various other niggles that led to pragmatic solutions like Zandronum in the first place?
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It does, which is why I'd much prefer to use Zandronum... if it will let me.
Release a singleplayer version now, then finish the multiplayer version later. :)
Could do this (except the now part, it's nowhere near done).
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It does, which is why I'd much prefer to use Zandronum... if it will let me.
Release a singleplayer version now, then finish the multiplayer version later. :)
Could do this (except the now part, it's nowhere near done).
Except then you'll have no motivation to do the multiplayer version because of how inferior it would be. If you're going to do that, just target singleplayer-only ZDoom and take advantage of the not-terrible modding features. (This is in contrast to skulldro, who are usually at least 1000 SVN revs behind ZDoom.)
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Indeed. I know people will cry out for a multiplayer version though so I have to try. I'll see how online testing goes with what I got so far and decide from that I think.
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Hm, guess i havent ran into anything as intensively coded then that would trigger such desynchs. Would it perhaps work better if there was a non-random pattern, or a pattern that was dependant on the player's location or status (kinda like fighting games)? Though it kinda runs the risk of people reading the patterns and sort of laming the boss out with that, possibily.
Or maybe you could create different versions of these bosses/enemies or give them a flag/item that sets gives them a unique but non-random pattern to act upon? Its better then nothing i suppose. Did learn alot of the art of compensation and trickery coding-wise while making stuff for GTA2, so perhaps ultimately something more simplified might work, too. As damn, that game has one unstable engine when doing alot of stuff or fancy crap and its multiplayer is so prone to desynch or crashing all the time.
Or perhaps its worth asking the developers to make the randomized state jumping and other random using things more stable online?
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I've decided to keep the project singleplayer for now. I will however write the ACS as if I was writing it for multiplayer, so if Zandronum does fix a couple of things it won't be too difficult to edit it for online play.
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Well, the thought of this thing being offline makes me shed tears of joy.
I don't always have the ability to go online, and when I do, I can't play MM8BDM because of that Zandronum Server Limit and my inability to set up DoomSeeker. Not to mention the unforgivable lags
Also, even if this isn't meant for online play, it won't stop fans from making their own mods and online co-op campaigns.
Plus, I believe this might draw more fans towards CutStuff.
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I dont think singleplayer was ever to be scrapped in the first place, MM8BDM had it from the start and even GVH could be played in offline bot matches, as simplistic as it was. Later on he even went and added campaigns and Yurei Battle, so i dont think CMM would neglect singleplayer so easily. :P
And i'm certainly gonna see if i can make it work online myself when its released, while i'm no master at super-complicated coding, there's always practical solutions and replacements to be had that might strain the engine less. How long do you think its gonna take before its complete or a beta comes up anyway? Or still too early to speak of such?
And the ACS is causing the desynchs? I would have thought it would be the intensive decorate coding instead, honestly. Given some mods out there that use such an intense amount of ACS, no doubt.
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It's the decorate stuff, it's very limiting.