Cutstuff Forum

Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch => Projects & Creative => Topic started by: TailsMK4 on April 24, 2013, 12:54:17 AM

Title: TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)
Post by: TailsMK4 on April 24, 2013, 12:54:17 AM
Hello guys, and welcome to my "workshop." Here I will basically introduce any projects I am working on or post my own fixes to other game modes made by other people. I am always willing to help people in any way I can, so don't be afraid to ask me. The worst that could happen is that I just do not know the answer to your question, but I would do what I can to get you to the right person, though.


Mega Man World

This originally was my Coop Enemy and Boss Resource Pack, but since Coop interest is increasing a bit again, I figure now is the time to act to really get the interest going. This is a full fledged MMSP-like project. The mod itself is fairly similar in gameplay to the original MMSP project but there's quite a bit more to do, as you also have the option of doing additional bonus missions that can be done along the way of the original mission, that is beating the RM of that stage. More details will be placed here as development of this mod continues.

Because of my ambitious goals of covering more than one Mega Man game in a single mod, I will need quite a bit of help to make this a reality. This post will keep track of various parts of the mod that has work done to it and what still needs to be done. I hope to have an official release every time a game gets completed. If you want to help out, post in this thread or contact me by PM or Skype about the kind of work you want to do. Any help that I can get would be greatly appreciated, as this mod actually serves two purposes: to get people playing Coop again and also the work done to this mod can be used by other map and mod makers in their own projects. All of the work in this mod is free to be used in other projects.

My highest priority at this point is finishing Mega Man 1, but work for future games will also be accepted. Anything marked by NOT OPEN means the feature is planned, but the actual details are not fully thought out yet.

EDIT: Haven't updated this in quite some time. Weapon and Enemy/Boss work at this time is closed off for anyone outside the dev team (unless they do not mind the extra help or people wanted to help code a future boss/weapon).


Progress:


Mega Man 1:


Enemies: Done!


Bosses: Done, aside from some little details like graphics and testing.


Maps:

"Remodeled" Light's Lab: ??% (still trying to add some features to it and maybe change the overall area a little bit) [Claimed by myself, remodeling being done by Blaze]
Cut Man: 90% (bonus missions yet to be added) [Claimed by myself, imported from CMM's MMSP]
Guts Man: 5% Taken [myself]
Ice Man: Roughly 40% Taken [Knux]
Bomb Man: 0% OPEN
Fire Man: 0% Taken [someone outside the team]
Elec Man: Roughly 80% Taken [someone outside the team]
Time Man: 0% Might be taken, not 100% sure
Oil Man: Roughly 90% Taken [myself]
Bonus Stage: 0% NOT OPEN
Bonus Stage 2: 0% NOT OPEN


Weapons: Pretty much done, my team just needs to sort everything out.


(Any games below this point are not high priority, but will still accept work)


Mega Man 2:


Maps:

Metal Man: 0% OPEN
Air Man: 0% OPEN
Bubble Man: 0% OPEN
Quick Man: 0% OPEN
Crash Man: 0% OPEN
Flash Man: 0% OPEN
Heat Man: 90% (bonus missions yet to be added) [Claimed by myself, imported from CMM's MMSP]
Wood Man: 0% OPEN
Bonus Stage: 0% NOT OPEN
Bonus Stage 2: 0% NOT OPEN


Mega Man 3:


Maps:

Needle Man: 90% (bonus missions yet to be added) [Claimed by myself, imported from CMM's MMSP]
Magnet Man: 0% OPEN
Gemini Man: 0% OPEN
Hard Man: 0% OPEN
Top Man: 0% OPEN
Snake Man: 0% OPEN
Spark Man: 0% OPEN
Shadow Man: 0% OPEN
Bonus Stage: 0% NOT OPEN


Mega Man 4:


Maps:

Bright Man: 0% OPEN
Toad Man: 90% (Need to fix a small bug with my revision of Toad Man's super that relies on the map, and need to add bonus missions) [Claimed by myself, imported from CMM's MMSP]
Drill Man: 0% OPEN
Pharaoh Man: 0% OPEN
Ring Man: 0% OPEN
Dust Man: 0% OPEN
Dive Man: 0% OPEN
Skull Man: 0% OPEN
Bonus Stage: 0% NOT OPEN
Bonus Stage 2: 0% NOT OPEN


(More games will be added later, I know content exists now for Napalm by CMM, and Stone and Blizzard by Max)


Credits (VERY outdated):

CutmanMike for various enemy coding
Cutstuff team for various enemy sprites
Magnet Dood for various enemy sprites
Blaze for Crazy Cannon sprites and other yet-to-be-revealed enemy sprites
Freakgamer for various boss jumping frames (I'll probably just credit the entire Justified devteam at some point)
Kapus for Shield Attacker sprites
Knux for Foot Holder sprites


Archives

These are mods/fixes that are no longer being worked on at this time. I probably will not pick these back up, but I will certainly answer any questions about them.


Roboenza Epidemic [Based off of CutmanMike's Roboenza wad]

(click to show/hide)


Endless Attack [original, but based off the mode from MM9 and MM10]

(click to show/hide)

Saxton Hale Rebirth [Community Project] [Implemented partly in Rebirth ++]

(click to show/hide)

Mega Man Mafia [By Darkseed] [Discontinued since Darkseed had returned with an update to his own mod]

(click to show/hide)

Saxton Hale Overhaul [Revision of Balrog's Saxton Hale, implemented partly in R6-R7, but will be fully implemented in Rebirth]

(click to show/hide)


Hide and Seek [original]

(click to show/hide)


Mega Man Race [original]

(click to show/hide)


Other Works

This section is for current projects that are not my own, but instead I am assisting with the projects. As such I may not be allowed to answer some questions even if I wanted to, sorry!


None at this time.


Need Help?

I can offer help to people that wish to make their own mods. I mainly can provide beta testing, but I can also help with ACS and some Decorate. I don't have a set template for what information I need to help out, but you can simply PM me and tell me in detail what you are trying to accomplish and what help you need. If I like your idea, I will do what I can to help make it successful. I also am willing to provide test servers if you need one.
Title: Re: Mega Man Race (Working Title?)
Post by: Knux on April 24, 2013, 07:04:52 PM
Sounds interesting, Tails. I'll try it when I get the chance to, which is likely on Friday.
Title: Re: Mega Man Race (Working Title?)
Post by: Tengu on April 25, 2013, 05:53:56 PM
Hey this isn't a bad start, I'll play around with it some more later.
Title: Re: Mega Man Race (Working Title?)
Post by: Fyone on April 25, 2013, 06:58:42 PM
Lap count has lots of bugs, I would suggest re-testing it and bugfix where necessary. I'll let you know if I can pinpoint the lap count problems more precisely. Cutman's spikes are too close together making them look almost an eyesore. Other than that I didn't see any other noticeable problems.
Title: Re: Mega Man Race (Working Title?)
Post by: xColdxFusionx on April 26, 2013, 12:50:49 AM
So basically Battle 'n' Chase with a more wavebike-tastic, Mario-Kart-esque shenanigans?

...Sign me up!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Fixing Mega Man Mafia/Assassin)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 01, 2013, 11:34:05 PM
(Reposted due to update on thread, and not wanting to double post...)

So I figure I would try to fix up Darkseed's Mafia Mode, and although I got a few things taken care of, I do have a few questions:

1. How do you resolve the W Tank error? Right now sometimes it does not fill up a weapon when pressed, and I think it does not work on MM8 weps. Unsure, though. Perhaps it has to do with the "Player" class?

2. There was coding in here to remove certain weapons from the player inventory, but it does not seem to work for all of them. For example, people still have Leaf Shield even though the coding was supposed to remove it.

3. I was told to change the Assassin Class a bit, with changing the "A_Stop* feature to something else, but I forgot what it was. How do you allow someone to move in the situation *A_Stop* is normally called?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Fixing Mega Man Mafia/Assassin)
Post by: Balrog on May 01, 2013, 11:46:08 PM
1. Check WCOLORS.
2. Your weapon replacer is probably resolving before the LMS weapon giver for some people. (or something.)
3. Pretty sure that v3a replaced A_Stop in pain states with A_ScaleVelocity(0.65). (It's A_ScaleVelocity(0.85) for FlashBomb damage, for reference.)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 02, 2013, 03:34:20 AM
My fix has been released! Enjoy a version of Mafia that isn't bogged down with glitches.

http://static.best-ever.org/wads/megama ... fix%29.pk3 (http://static.best-ever.org/wads/megamanmafia-v4b%28tailsfix%29.pk3)

Just be sure to place this AFTER the original mafia v4b file.

EDIT: Two more things.

1. I am accepting requests for the mod. Since I have not seen Darkseed for a while, I shall take over for the time being. I have some people I can ask for help anyway.

2. The weapons replacement doesn't seem to work online, but all other fixes do. Weapon replacement was the lowest priority fix anyway.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: Ceridran on May 06, 2013, 05:38:19 PM
I'd like to say that we should have maps designed specifically for this gamemode. Large maps that aren't wide open. (MM2DW1 is terrible for this gamemode!)

It's hard to get someone quietly without anybody knowing. These maps will probably also lack music, or just have ambience.

Think about "Trouble in Terrorist Town."
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 07, 2013, 02:41:35 AM
That's an interesting thought. Perhaps this could also allow me to get feedback on my map design (and not have a constant reminder by Gummy about one of my old maps...).

While the topic of Mafia is brought up, I took a little break after finishing the fix, and I might just take this project over as a learning experience. I have compiled a list of requested changes/features that were made during the time the development was active that Darkseed was considering (ideas underlined means that I will be able to do it on my own):


(click to show/hide)


I didn't want to go through 25 pages of the original thread, but if anyone wants to take a look around, be my guest. If anything looks like good, go ahead and post it. I'll see if I can get in ideas that are generally accepted. Just keep in mind I am new to editing Decorate, so I may need some help doing so.

These are some ideas I had in mind:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: TheDoc on May 07, 2013, 03:00:03 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Possibility of all weapons LMS gives and Still haz knife // Only 1 Weapon (+ Knife for assassin)

What does this mean again? I certainly hope you're not saying that the assassin will have the LMS weapons as well, because then it'll be impossible to find him.

Also, will the assassin have a limited number of I-Tanks or will there be a cooldown period?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 07, 2013, 03:26:35 AM
That's basically what they mean, the assassin having the weapons the survivors have. As for I-Tanks, I'm keeping it at 2.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man Mafia Fix Released!)
Post by: Ceridran on May 07, 2013, 10:06:46 PM
Quote from: "TheDoc"
I hope you're not saying that the assassin will have the LMS weapons as well, because then it'll be impossible to find him.

If traitors can't have the same weapons as you in TTT, matches would go much faster.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Balrog Saxton Hale RNC V1B Fix Released
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 23, 2013, 10:46:47 PM
Got another update for you guys. This time, it is a fix that Jolteon and I worked on to make RNC v1b compatible with Balrog's SH. Hope you guys enjoy it, and I will be putting up a server with this fix shortly! I will just say the both of us learned quite a bit from performing this fix.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Balrog Saxton Hale RNC V1B Fix Released
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on May 24, 2013, 03:20:11 AM
Hey Tails, about that fix you just released. Whenever I tried joining your server, my sound went out. I could hear my music, but no other sound played. And no, it's not my settings, because whenever I joined any other server/started the game normally, it would be normal. This glitch used to happen to me all the time whenever I attempted to join a Saxton hale + classes server.

Also, whenever I closed the game, it crashed. That never happened before.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Balrog Saxton Hale RNC V1B Fix Released
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on May 24, 2013, 03:24:59 AM
Quote from: "Gizmo The Cat"
Hey Tails, about that fix you just released. Whenever I tried joining your server, my sound went out. I could hear my music, but no other sound played. And no, it's not my settings, because whenever I joined any other server/started the game normally, it would be normal. This glitch used to happen to me all the time whenever I attempted to join a Saxton hale + classes server.

Also, whenever I closed the game, it crashed. That never happened before.
My guess: bad Advanced Sound settings?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Nothing at the moment)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 26, 2013, 06:16:21 AM
Due to crashing issues, and not knowing why they are happening, I have removed the SH fixes. Sorry about that guys, hope you guys enjoyed the combination of SH and RNC.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Nothing at the moment)
Post by: Knux on May 26, 2013, 08:24:36 PM
What crashing issues? In all the time I was at your server yesterday, which was like three hours, I never experienced a single crash with those wads.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 29, 2013, 11:51:42 PM
Hello everyone, this time I have something more original for you guys. Hide and Seek! Check out the first post for more details. This took me a while to figure out, so hope you guys enjoy it!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TheDoc on May 30, 2013, 01:09:26 AM
Okay, I understand that you said there's not alot of good hide and seek maps, but holy hannah, there are deathmatch stages. They're made to NOT be hide and seek maps. I suggest that maps be made for specifically for this mod.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: Epsilontheyoshi on May 30, 2013, 01:17:38 AM
Actually have an account now, but besides that...
I have a couple suggestions for Hide and Seek mode. (Some of which, I'm sure is acknowledged)
1. Reduce the timer on both hiding time and seeking time. (1-2 minutes should be enough for hiding, 2-3 1/2 minutes should be enough for seeking.)
2. *Suggested by 75Chris5* Make the buster a 2-hit kill, but after first hit, you are lodged free from hiding spot and can run about.
3. Add one or two w-tanks since Scorch Wheel only has 4 uses. (Although it could be used with the other weapons, they don't help a whole lot.)
4. If you don't go with the 2-hit buster, I think it would be interesting if the last couple (like 3 or 5) people who haven't been found yet are lodged free and can roam.
*EDIT* I found out what causes hiders to be able to move after seeker can. If you sustain yourself in the air during the last couple seconds, the game will stop you like normal, but if you're falling at all after the time the game stops you, you can move around. I tested with ladders and it doesn't work, so I think Tornado Hold is the only weapon that might have to be removed to fix this. (I'm not sure about bubbles like in Burstman or fan transporters like in Gyro though, so you might want to look into this)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: xColdxFusionx on May 30, 2013, 01:48:33 AM
Quote from: "Epsilontheyoshi"
Actually have an account now, but besides that...
I have a couple suggestions for Hide and Seek mode. (Some of which, I'm sure is acknowledged)
1. Reduce the timer on both hiding time and seeking time. (1-2 minutes should be enough for hiding, 2-3 1/2 minutes should be enough for seeking.)
Yes. Please.
2. *Suggested by 75Chris5* Make the buster a 2-hit kill, but after first hit, you are lodged free from hiding spot and can run about.
...Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Hide and Seek?
3. Add one or two w-tanks since Scorch Wheel only has 4 uses. (Although it could be used with the other weapons, they don't help a whole lot.)
Kind of pointless if it's just for one weapon, don't you think?
4. If you don't go with the 2-hit buster, I think it would be interesting if the last couple (like 3 or 5) people who haven't been found yet are lodged free and can roam.
idk, could be interesting, but similar response to #2
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: Ceridran on May 30, 2013, 02:02:25 AM
People being lodged in place? For me, it always let you roam as a hider.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on May 30, 2013, 02:33:47 AM
OK, I'm disappointed at the color selection, timer and dem crashes (yes, it's above Saxton in crash ratio), so, here I go with my idea of how a Hide and Seek mod should be:

1. Compatible not only with LMS, but also with LMS, DM and TDM. (The orignal Hide and Seek mod for skulltag was TLMS)
2. Always be allowed to move, but have seekers stuck in place and with their screen darkned by using means similar to Flash Stopper for 60 seconds
3. Add "classes" for the hiders and seekers. No Hider class should be able to directly harm a seeker (though they can TRY telefragging)
3-1. Classes for Hiders: Stealth (Partially invisible while moving, gradually gains invisibility from not moving at all, moderate speed), Ninja (Has many weapons, each with a different color combination, high speed and jump), Bird (Can fly for a limited time before being forced to rest for a short time, smallest collision box, but takes most damage)
3-2. Classes for Seekers: Sniper (Fires a fast projectile, long interval between shots, high jump and attack power, slow), Chop-chop (Melee-oriented class, using a narrower and shorter version of Flame Sword attack, high speed and jump), Disruptor (Causes small, almost 0, AOE damage, that takes 10 seconds to recharge and disables camouflage, invisibility and flight for five seconds, also has the ability to use a weak buster that can only shot once per second, low speed, supposed to be a supporting class for seekers)
4. Hiders should take more than one hit to kill (2 shots at most from Sniper, 1 very close attack from Melee, five to ten shots from Disruptor). Seekers cannot be hurt by players, but can be hurt by enviroment and telefrags.
5. Keep small maps out of the rotation, or put some warning for it.
6. Merge scripts that have the same type (like OPEN scripts). Overall, scripting is something that needs to be looked into for long.

So, yeah... It needs to become something less "based on Roboenza" to "based on Hide and Seek for Skulltag"
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TheDoc on May 30, 2013, 03:02:34 AM
Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"
...Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Hide and Seek?

It is nigh IMPOSSIBLE to win as a hider without roaming in these maps.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TheDoc on June 03, 2013, 02:39:04 AM
I know I just double posted, but I felt it appropriate because it has to do with the megaman race thing, not hide and seek.

Anyways, I really like this idea because it's like B&C except it incorporates MM8BDM (everyone has the same abilities and you copy weapons). Idk, it just feels right. That being said, I have some things to say.

1.) Eddie shouldn't be completely out of the way to get. In other words, you shouldn't have to sacrifice distance to get him. It's not ALWAYS that way. For example, the first eddie in the cutman stage requires 2 well-timed jumps, but you don't sacrifice time getting it. However, eddies like THIS
(click to show/hide)
are just complete wastes of time. You might as well stop in your tracks and give up your lead on the person behind you. There are some Eddies that take up a BIT of time, but those are fine because sometimes you have half a second or so to spare and can pick up that eddie. I think most of the eddies in cutman's stage are fair enough. tl;dr Don't make me bust my butt for one eddie.

2.) Some of the weapons aren't really race quality. Therefore, I suggest race variants of the MM8BDM weapons in place of the originals. I could probably come up with something for some of the weapons; it shouldn't be terribly hard.

I know I'm probably the only person who CARES for this mod at this point, but it just rubs me the right way. Simple, yet fun. If you need help with some maps (I'll see what I can do :? ), I'd could give it a go.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 04, 2013, 01:17:18 AM
I may pick up my racing mod again at some point, but I feel I will try again later after I get more experience at scripting.

Anyway, v1b of my Hide and Seek wad has been released. Hopefully some of the things that bugged people in v1a have been fixed. Seeker is now a Sniper Joe, btw. Hope you guys enjoy, and I will put up my server with map packs as requested soon. Just give me some time to select some maps suitable for Hide and Seek among the map packs I will be hosting.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 04, 2013, 03:50:00 AM
sorry ,but it is more broken now than then: the seeker timer can skip 0 and go on and on and on... I still crashed in the first round I was able to join and the seeker is over-advantaged.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 04, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
I uploaded a hotfix to resolve that timer, but if the timer really is the reason for the crashing, I think v1c (which I will develop next week), should hopefully finish it for good.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 04, 2013, 08:52:50 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I uploaded a hotfix to resolve that timer, but if the timer really is the reason for the crashing, I think v1c (which I will develop next week), should hopefully finish it for good.
On other news, care to test this?
http://www.mediafire.com/?jc3xbkx1b1nxtww (http://www.mediafire.com/?jc3xbkx1b1nxtww)
I did the clientside thing for the time and health counter.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 04, 2013, 09:27:35 PM
Apparently putting Clientside on some of the scripts is messing them up. For SH, the health only reflects your own (so unless you're the hale, you only see the number 100), not the hale's, unless you are the hale. My problem right now is that the timer will not count down in Hide and Seek if I do Clientside on the two timers. Putting both timers to Open does not even make them appear. Mess may have to explain how he got his result in Rage Roboenza, and I think lately he has been very busy...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 04, 2013, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Apparently putting Clientside on some of the scripts is messing them up. For SH, the health only reflects your own (so unless you're the hale, you only see the number 100), not the hale's, unless you are the hale. My problem right now is that the timer will not count down in Hide and Seek if I do Clientside on the two timers. Putting both timers to Open does not even make them appear. Mess may have to explain how he got his result in Rage Roboenza, and I think lately he has been very busy...

Figured where I derped. It didn't have anything to retrieve hale health and store in a variable.
http://www.mediafire.com/?yxl51r21r22tt1w (http://www.mediafire.com/?yxl51r21r22tt1w)


Just doesn't work. I have one very last idea, but it makes the game "unpredictable" for spectators (if they are not assigned a TID): use an inventory as a variable, then use a script to quickly sweep and restock the inventory in relation with hale health, and have it happen per tic.

EDIT: My very last attempt. Worked with bots, hopefully will work in an actual server without killing it. Very experimental, but is better than nothing...
www.mediafire.com/?9hw8vy4lwhy7o6q (http://www.mediafire.com/?9hw8vy4lwhy7o6q)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 05, 2013, 03:42:47 AM
That is a weird way of doing the health, but I can confirm the health goes down as it should. Trying it on the server...

EDIT: No CLIENTSIDE? Hmm...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 05, 2013, 04:02:55 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
That is a weird way of doing the health, but I can confirm the health goes down as it should. Trying it on the server...

EDIT: No CLIENTSIDE? Hmm...

One script does a rapid clean up of everyone's inventory and gives a number of an item corresponding to current hale's health (or hales, or timer). The script that does this sweep is similar to the one in my attempt of making bots use a single OPEN script rather than having them called individually when they spawn/respawn. So, the counter is now handled by SBARINFO and Inventory Control, rather than HudMessage
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (HideandSeek-v1a.pk3 released!)
Post by: Darkseed on June 19, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
I like with what you have done with my old mod, Tails. Nice to know people still care bruh *Bro fist*
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Deciding what to do next...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 20, 2013, 09:41:46 PM
Hey, welcome back. You seemed to have disappeared, so I thought I would give your mod a try. I wasn't sure what direction to try to take with the mod, so all I did was try to fix it up. Now that I have some more experience under my belt, though, I might do a little more. If you want to resume your mod, though, go for it.

EDIT: So right now I am still thinking of what project I want to resume. This is kind of my thinking process right now as far as how likely I might resume a project:

1. The racing mod. Still need to finish up Ice Man's map and start work on Guts Man's, and try to polish the mode some more. Lot of work ahead.
2. Mafia fixes. Polish up the assassin more and maybe do some maps. Will have to look back through the list and maybe do some ideas Darkseed had. Now if he wants to resume his mod, I'll let him take the wheel, but I can help out if he wants to. Relatively low stress work ahead, I think.
3. Hide and Seek. Bunch of bugs to squish that persisted since Day 1. Previous attempts to squish them failed. Fun, fun, fun.
4. Saxton Hale fixes. Might attempt a fix for R3 to bring it closer to R5, but without all of the crashing shenanigans. May or may not attempt to get it to work with Powered Up and RNC. (Proto Strike appeared recently and TKed players, so it might not be a bad idea to attempt the fix. I also had thought of perhaps trying out PU's Time Slow weapon and maybe put it in the rotation.)
5. Start a new project/fix? Hmm...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Deciding what to do next...)
Post by: Darkseed on June 24, 2013, 04:19:49 PM
Sorry, everyone. But i will not be resuming work on Mega Man Mafia. Tails, if you wish, you may continue work on it under a new name and any other changes. It's in your hands now...No pressure...

And my disappearing? Well MM8BDM Hasn't been as fun as before and we are losing so many people. Servers are empty except maybe one Saxton Hale server but that is all. Maybe Tails could make an awesome mod that will bring us back?
...no pressure...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Overhaul Released)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 27, 2013, 07:08:14 AM
I hope this finally finishes all the fixing for Balrog's Saxton Hale. I will say it has been a great learning experience working with this mod, though. I do not intend to work with this mod anymore unless anything MAJOR shows up. Enjoy.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Overhaul Released)
Post by: FTX6004 on June 30, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Ninja Spy, and Gilgamesh have their skins from R5.

You could say i made them you know so the new people knows i made it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Overhaul Released)
Post by: <geminibro> on June 30, 2013, 08:36:24 PM
Alright TMK4, time to put your coding skills to work! I have a hale suggestion.
--
Name: Wii Fit Trainer
Health: 2500
Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWS2y4KlQ3g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWS2y4KlQ3g)
Appearance: http://thenintendohome.files.wordpress. ... =383&h=295 (http://thenintendohome.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/wiifit.jpg?w=383&h=295)
Attack: Pose Shockwave, she does the tree pose, and a cross-shaped pattern around her, which slowly moves away from her.
Rage Attack: Her final smash from the new smash bros game.
Super Jump: Yes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Nothing for now)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 12, 2013, 08:09:59 AM
Just thought I'd give you guys a heads up as to what is coming later on...well, technically it's today, but it's like 3 in the morning for me. I will be hosting an open beta test server of Hide and Seek v1c. A few of the major issues were taken care of. Here are some of the things coming in the beta:

-10 weapons to choose from. You guys wanted to camouflage better, so I did what I could to have a weapon for the major colors we know of. In the future I may design some weapons in order to help everyone blend in better. They will not do any damage, of course.
-The moving around issue for the Hiders may be fixed. You will still be able to look around, change weapons, and shoot, though you will just be giving yourself away if you do shoot. :lol:
-The Seeker now has a Super Jump.
-The timer is a little different...I know it's not exactly the BEST spot for it, but you will be able to see if you are running out of time, and it may cut down on crashing. Cannot say for sure without getting you guys involved in the testing, right?
-Not in as of this post, but there will be a change in music for the last survivor...

Some notes to keep in mind:

-You still can die if you end up on something like the sewer water in Toad Man's stage and be unable to move. However, since you will have the timer in your sight at all times, you can avoid that scenario. Trying to make this any more restrictive only created more bugs, to the point where players could not die at all. Try not to do stupid things, ok?
-I tried to keep the text for the timer as small as possible. Hopefully it does not block your vision.
-There may be other bugs that I have not caught yet. These bugs I cannot detect unless there are a large number of people playing at once.
-I do not plan to make this compatible with bots. It is already broken with bots as is, and they are stupid enough to try to kill you anyway instead of hide.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Nothing for now)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 12, 2013, 10:46:15 AM
Although my current time zone situtation prevents me from 3:00 PM - 11:00 PM your time (the best time to play for you most likely -_-), I'd be happy to beta test this and I'm really looking forward to see the output of your hard work in this update  :D.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Nothing for now)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 12, 2013, 08:48:37 PM
I will be hosting on BE, so yeah, just join in if you happen to be online, Nacho.

Download link will be up shortly, just want to get my test server ready. Again, I must look through the maps since some maps are not suited for Hide and Seek. I should let you guys know that since last night I added one additional thing:

-Added a Lightning Round. I believe this is pretty similar to the way someone did Hide and Seek in Doom. You have a short amount of time to find a spot, and the Seeker's time is reduced as well to try to find people. Right now this is set to be a 1 in 3 chance of occurring.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 13, 2013, 01:37:51 AM
If you're taking ideas, I'd like to suggest a mod. The mod would focus on adding archetype classes to this game. Classes like a Scout, Tank, Sniper, stuff like that. They would have to use weapons included in the game but can not pick up any other weapons except their presets.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: Ceridran on July 13, 2013, 01:39:31 AM
.. Don't we have something like that? It was called Special Classes.

Unless I'm not getting what you're saying.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 13, 2013, 01:48:14 AM
Yeah, I know. But I feel that it needs something. Is tsuki still working on it anyways?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 13, 2013, 03:07:08 AM
Well, first of all... This is not much as hide and seek, and more of "hide and pray for the lord you are never found even though everyone stands out like a sore thumb". Second, it's still crashtastic. Third is the idea of how it should take an approach to the original "Hide And Seek" for Skulltag (http://www.mediafire.com/download/tx901cse3kkx715/hideandseekb8.pk3).
said changes should include:

1. Class-based gameplay. The original one had a few classes that changed how the hiders and seekers behave, adding variety according to each's play style.
2. Different Timer Behavior. It IS possible to use a timer right on the SBARINFO by having a Global Variable being handled. But you will likely want to initialize it to prevent Null errors.
3. No freezing Hiders in place after hiding time is up.
4. Team-based gameplay. See the Skulltag example above.
4.1. I propose timer changes based on the difference between teams. If there are more seekers than hiders, the hiders should be able to sustain more damage and survive longer. If there are more hiders than seekers, the seekers should have boosted speed until the number of hiders is less or equal to the number of seekers.
5. Last One Standing advantage. The last hider should be given the ability to create a distraction (Flash Bomb Blast Effect, Flash Stopper, etc) in the form of useable items.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 13, 2013, 03:52:49 AM
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
1. Class-based gameplay. The original one had a few classes that changed how the hiders and seekers behave, adding variety according to each's play style.

I will not do classes for Hiders (for the time being), but I have a few in mind for the Seekers.


Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
2. Different Timer Behavior. It IS possible to use a timer right on the SBARINFO by having a Global Variable being handled. But you will likely want to initialize it to prevent Null errors.

I will research on that. Sounds like it might be useful.


Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
3. No freezing Hiders in place after hiding time is up.

This is where I draw the line. I will 100% NOT do this, or it is not called Hide and Seek anymore. It just becomes Tag.


If you guys are curious about my inspiration for this mod, I modeled mine after the Hide and Seek mode in Sonic Robo Blast 2. Here is a video of myself playing it with friends:




The difference between this and Tag? Hiders can move in Tag. That's it. Btw, the Brawlman you guys see in this video is the very same Brawlman that was here with you guys.

Hopefully you guys understand the approach I am taking with this mod. I am not ruling out making a team-based option in the future, but I will not model mine after the Doom Hide and Seek, which from what I have read about it is not really hide and seek at all. If someone wants to make a mod based off of the Doom one, then that is fine by me. This will not be that mod, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 13, 2013, 04:17:32 AM
Then why bother naming it simply "hide and seek"? It's more like "hide and freeze". Plus, it doesn't even match common context of the variant commonly known, where hiders are allowed to freely roam for a new hiding place until they are caught.

Sorry, but I'd suggest you name it "SRB2-HnS" instead, because it is just a copypasta of that one, and then it would leave spot for a more elaborate one to surface.

Also, you maybe have not caught this happening in the past, but someone once hosted a "Hide and Seek" that was just a "rule of mouth", rather than having mods involved. And everything was permited, except slaying the seeker.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Hide and Seek V1C beta released!)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 14, 2013, 04:11:19 AM
Does anyone else feel the Lightning Round happens too often? Every other round it seems one is forced into a position based on their arbitrary spawn point. The one time I was picked to seek, it was Frostman's stage and people could just ride the snowboards around to waste time. I ran out of time as soon as I found the last two people that were hiding extremely closely to one another. Had I not had to waste time superjumping over to the "free snowboarding section", chase around all the wild Megamen, and superjump on to the next section, I would have easily won. I doubt something can be done about this, but since you're hosting, can you remove it from the rotation? Since you're already having issues with the timer, I won't make any strong suggestions there, but just in case you would like to know I personally find it a bit difficult to read console messages with each timer second taking up a slot. Just some feedback.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 23, 2013, 07:30:34 AM
All right, so after a discussion with players in my SH server, I have decided that I will leave open the possibility of basically doing a "rebirth" of Saxton Hale starting from SilverSin's version. Even though Balrog attempted this, and I thank him for that, his mod is quite a mess now. Before we begin, though, I'd like to start some discussions about how we should approach this. I have a few topics in mind, but if you have something you want to bring up, go ahead.

Some topics I have in mind are:

1. The hales themselves. Here is what is different in the list between SilverSin and Balrog:

SS:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
(Robo) Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
NeoDS
Pissed Off Roll
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier

BR:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier
Morshu
Captain Falcon
Quote and Curly
(?)M. Bison (next update?)
(?)Spike (if DarkAura was still going to work on him)

Any hales that should be kept? Is there a certain version of a particular Hale you want to return?


2. The original Saxton Hale in Team Fortress 2 was team-based, with the hale on one team and the rest of the players on the other. Should we keep it as is or switch to this system? This would make Ra Thor a little difficult to update, but this is just something on the table for debate. A benefit of this is that we will not have to worry too much about translations, since players will know that red colors = boss.


3. SilverSin did make some Saxton Hale Classes. Should we try to bring those back?


4. Should some bosses, like Saxton himself, show up more often than others? Or we should we keep it where there is an "equal" chance of a hale appearing? I say "equal" since the RNG is not completely random...


5. Where should we balance out the two sides? I feel the way the mod is going under Balrog that the players are favored too much over the hale. I'd like to start buffing a few of the hales myself, but that's just me.


If you got more ideas to discuss, then feel free to do so. Let the discussion begin!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 23, 2013, 09:00:28 AM
Possibly relevant, but say... Is it just me or the crashes stopped for good in Zandronum 1.1.1? Although I see a brief "freeze frame" whenever the "last survivor" music plays along with announcer's voice.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 23, 2013, 12:14:31 PM
1. <whatever>

2. Uh, no. I don't trust Zandronum to handle constant team switching like that reliably.

3. Adding Saxton Hale Classes would mean adding Classes, which is made of fail and AIDS. No thanks.

4. Considering the number of bosses here, I'm not sure weighting the chances is a good idea.

5. I'm all for things that require the survivors to have skill. The question is, who needs buffed?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 23, 2013, 12:18:00 PM
Ah, some more Saxton Hale. If someone can pull this off, it's you, Tails.

1. As much as I personally want an Akuma for Hale, I'm fine with Balrog's list with a couple exceptions. I think I can safely say I'm not the only one in the community who thinks Morshu is a joke that has been stretched too far. Gilgamesh is about as effective as a rubber duck and Cave could use a slight health nerf.

2. Team based gameplay is a wonderful idea on paper, but it doesn't seem like it would work out too well and I can already see a variety of glitches. Team chat isn't really necessary in a style as fast-paced as this and I ultimately just see more unnecessary work that could be diverted to resources such as giving each Hale a unique skin, which would solve the problem of identifying the Hale anyway.

3. Maybe it would be most reasonable in this case to get the project on its feet to show the community it's got potential before worrying about potential classes. In other words, adding classes may be biting off more than we can chew at the moment.

4. I'm a strong advocate of equal chances for Hales to be chosen. Even if some Hales are liked less by most of the community, variety would appeal to both the community and the minority equally.

5. I have to disagree on this one as of the most recent Saxton Hale by Balrog. Hales have enormous amounts of health and unless there's a boatload of people, the survivors are essentially screwed. As of R7, I feel Hales overall need less health and slightly more speed (or perhaps slightly more range, but under no circumstances should they get both).

Additional Notes: To prevent too many people from wiping the Hale out too quickly, I think there should be weapon tiers. More players, lower tier weapons to stop 15 people shutting down the centerpiece of the mod in 10 seconds with Flash Bomb. I also feel last survivor should get a random rune instead of just spread to spice up the game and an E-Tank so they have a better chance against either of the Caves (Johnson or Story).

I really hope my points are considered because I don't want such a great mod to die.

EDIT: Somewhat Ninja'd by Balrog for most of my main points  :?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 23, 2013, 12:46:05 PM
1 - The ones I'd like to see staying are Scrooge, Quote&Curly, Ra Thor Reborn, Captain Falcon, and M.Bison when he comes in.

2 - Wouldn't you have to die first to switch teams?

3 - No.

4 - I don't really think so. On the subject of Saxton Hale, I probably wouldn't care if Saxton Hale himself was removed and the gamemode name was changed.

5 - In attempts to balance, hales become overpowered. I think I'm bad at coming up with things to balance with.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: leoalex50 on July 23, 2013, 01:26:25 PM
1. pissed of roll should come back

2. wait for updates

3.no or wait for updates

4. "equal"

5. i'm with balrog on this one
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 23, 2013, 03:20:04 PM
1. NeoDS. Because Craptain Failc*** is bad.

2. Team System is not needed, really. And we can't do it Zombie Horde's way (using Survival mode) because there is only one coop start point in the maps, if I recall correctly.

3. No, no and HELL NO! At most, it would require original classes that aren't TOO MUCH different from Megaman, as to not disrupt the game greatly. Because we don't need people running around at the speed of sound and going sky high all the time.

4. Sepparate the RNG in three stages: RNG Common (1/4 chance of being skipped): Hales with melee attacks. RNG Uncommon (1/2 chance of being skipped): Hales that only shoot (like Cave Johnson and Morshu) and Duo hales. RNG Rare (Cannot be skipped): Duo Shooting bosses ( " and {} ) and bosses that have absurd powers (Ra Thor's super ultimate black hole of a doom and his minions)

5. It's not that simple. The projectiles are often huge, which means they have too much of a chance to strike the player at point blank. And it is not that Balrog's favors players over hale, but rather that he fixed some issues (OP Roll Healing for one), while others still remain (Morshu's hitbox dissonance in his bombs, absurd bomb interval, no protection to his own bombs when holding it, Cave Johnson's OP Flame Lemon...)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: <geminibro> on July 23, 2013, 03:34:44 PM
Could i suggest some Hales by Private Messahes?
Title: I'll slit my wrists over it later.
Post by: DarkAura on July 23, 2013, 04:16:38 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
(?)Spike (if DarkAura was still going to work on him)
I was hoping everyone forgot about him. Unfortunately, I stopped working on him due to bullshit-coding abilities, a year of procrastinating on it, generatively not caring, and quitting Saxton Hale all-together.

If someone wants to "adopt" him, then I can send all the crap I managed to do to whoever wants him.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 23, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"

1. Any hales that should be kept? Is there a certain version of a particular Hale you want to return?
Morshu can stay out for all I care, but I want Captain Falcon to come back with my moveset and skin. If he doesn't, I'm going to be really upset. Though I'm pretty sure Rozark would have the right to feel upset if Morshu didn't get in with his moveset either. Keep Roll and NeoDS out.

2. The original Saxton Hale in Team Fortress 2 was team-based, with the hale on one team and the rest of the players on the other. Should we keep it as is or switch to this system? This would make Ra Thor a little difficult to update, but this is just something on the table for debate. A benefit of this is that we will not have to worry too much about translations, since players will know that red colors = boss.
Keep the system as is. As convenient as it'd be to see every hale as red, I can foresee too many problems with a TLMS version.


3. SilverSin did make some Saxton Hale Classes. Should we try to bring those back?
No. If people want classes, they can add it themselves.

4. Should some bosses, like Saxton himself, show up more often than others? Or we should we keep it where there is an "equal" chance of a hale appearing? I say "equal" since the RNG is not completely random...
Keep it equal.

5. Where should we balance out the two sides? I feel the way the mod is going under Balrog that the players are favored too much over the hale. I'd like to start buffing a few of the hales myself, but that's just me.
There really isn't much we can do with the players except arrange the weapons and items selection, so let's focus on the hales.


I wouldn't mind being a part of this. If my things are gonna get in, I'm gonna have to step in somewhere.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 23, 2013, 04:45:30 PM
One of the reasons I said Captain Falcon, is that:

1 - Gizmo worked on a skin and all for it, and I'd hate to see it go to waste.

2 - With all the things he can do that isn't just kicking, you can expand upon his battle style much more.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 23, 2013, 06:50:02 PM
Captain could have a redo that makes him more similar to his Brawl version.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 23, 2013, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
One of the reasons I said Captain Falcon, is that:

1 - Gizmo worked on a skin and all for it, and I'd hate to see it go to waste.

2 - With all the things he can do that isn't just kicking, you can expand upon his battle style much more.
Except you'd need multiple weapons. Chickenpigs in Heretic/Hexen didn't have multiple weapons, so morphed classes can't switch weapons.

And just to be clear, I want in on this.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 23, 2013, 07:39:54 PM
He shouldn't need multiple weapons the way I wrote out his moveset.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 23, 2013, 07:44:20 PM
Cap. should be remade akin to M.Bison: basic attack would be Falcon Punch and charge would be the dashing Falcon Kick. He would rage with a drivable Blue Falcon for road kill.
He wouldn't have complicated weapons and still be a Melee based Hale.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 23, 2013, 10:02:33 PM
I'm happy to hear that there seems to be a lot of favor in this, but I saw a few things that seemed to catch my attention. (since this is a long post, I spoilered each of my responses)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

As for the comments I have received with the other topic ideas, it is clear that we should keep this LMS, that we should focus on making sure the hales are fine before we deal with extra classes, and to keep the chances equal of getting any hale. I am completely fine with this decision.

As for the hales themselves...the only ones that seem uncertain to me are Pissed Off Roll and NeoDS. Should we bring them back, but maybe work on them so they are a little more enjoyable, or just not bring them back at all?

I really like the support for this, and I would be more than happy to make sure that everything looks just right. I think for starters, maybe we could start with getting some more custom skins for the hales?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: MrL1193 on July 23, 2013, 10:07:31 PM
1. Quote and Curly are must-haves, and Morshu has a unique playing style that's worth trying to save, even if he himself isn't. On the other hand, I never liked PO Roll (even just as a character, without the overpowered healing ability) and would not be sorry if she didn't return.

2. I suppose using teams would fix problems with certain weapons (such as homing weapons locking onto allies and weapons from other mods outright damaging them), but as far as distinguishing bosses goes, it seems to me that fixing the palette glitches would be a better way to do it.

3. I've never played the version with Silversin's classes, so I don't know how well those worked. Really, I'd just be happy if there were some way to allow players some individuality in their abilities. (That's the main reason I like it when Eddie shows up--he can give players weapons that the others don't have, distinguishing them from the rest.) Don't get me wrong, I hate seeing Quick Man and Gyro Man in Class SH too, but the idea that all the players have to be absolutely identical to one another for proper balance is just too extreme, if you ask me.

4. I'm not too sure on this one. It sounds like a potentially fun idea on paper, but I don't know how one would go about selecting which bosses should be more common than others.

5. Aside from random-sword Gilgamesh, I don't think the balance is too poor overall.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 23, 2013, 10:50:33 PM
The links. The hotfix one is to be loaded after the original revisited, but you can just add them to the original, replacing the files. The absurd filesize of the original is thanks to all the sounds and music, so you might want to compress that stuff before using it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9e3qr ... isited.pk3 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/9e3qr9z7gpgz09b/Saxton%26FriendsV3C-revisited.pk3)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6ga9j ... Hotfix.pk3 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/6ga9j9af0dyew0p/Saxton%26FriendsV3C-revisited-Hotfix.pk3)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 12:00:25 AM
I support the idea of making this a community project of sorts. More people means things will get done faster. (so long as people aren't dead focused on getting their own hales in.)

As for the hales themselves, I forgot to say that Quote and Curly should stay in. I don't want PO'd Roll to come back, and I don't think it'd be a good idea to bring NeoDS back either. He got a lot of negative feedback and Neo himself is banned--and might not even want him back in anymore. Although, if we were to bring NeoDS back, I say we just nab his Teaparty class, give him Hale amounts of HP, and make his rage Flare or Meteor and there you have it. People still may not like him but he'd be way better than how he stands now.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 24, 2013, 12:07:38 AM
Keep NeoDS out in any forms. Teaparty Neo is even worse because that is complicated to no end.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 12:40:47 AM
Yeah, the only person who can really use Neo is Neo himself.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 24, 2013, 01:02:56 AM
Quote from: "Gizmo The Cat"
Yeah, the only person who can really use Neo is Neo himself.
Well... NeoDS was actually easy to play as, but the whole "Item to rage" thing was dumb. Could have been fixed, by making BT_Crouch activate the dash and item use for super jump, while altfire would be for raeg.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 01:09:12 AM
BT_Crouch? What's that?
Does that allow you to perform an action by pressing the crouch button?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 24, 2013, 01:17:18 AM
All right, so the hale list as it stands will be:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier
Morshu
Captain Falcon
Quote and Curly

Now, if M. Bison actually had some work done to him at this point, then I will allow him in. Otherwise, I feel we should focus on making the mod stable first before we add some extra content. I will accept changes that we feel should be made to the ones already in. I remember some discussions related to changing Starman, Morshu, and Captain Falcon. If we are still considering changes to those, perhaps someone could give us an update as to how those three are going, and how far along M. Bison has come along since he was selected in Balrog's thread?

As for me, I am taking Tsuki's updates to SilverSin's mod that was made a while back and building from there. I liked the way Balrog organized the files (what I mean is, how he set up actors for each hale instead of just putting them all in one decorate file), so I will be revising as such. I also will add in the maps and perhaps do some compression of the music. I will remove PO Roll and NeoDS since it seems we still do not want them back in. I probably will stop there and release the wad as "SaxtonHaleRebirthalpha.pk3", and we will decide what to do from there. I will also add FTX's skins for Gilgamesh and Ninja Spy. As for Morshu, Captain Falcon, and Quote and Curly, I will add them from the Overhaul, though I think I will not add in Captain Falcon just yet. It will probably take me some time to get everything to look right.

For those of you hoping for new hales, just bare with us for now. I will let you know when we will start accepting hale requests.

EDIT: I am also open to suggestions about how to name the Saxton Hale mod. I am just treating it as a "Rebirth" of the mod, but I am not limiting the name to just that, of course.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 24, 2013, 01:21:59 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
All right, so the hale list as it stands will be:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of StarMan V2
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Ra Thor Reborn
Slenderman
Scrooge
Seeman and Seedlier
Morshu
Captain Falcon
Quote and Curly

I'd pull CBS, Ninja Spy, Seemen, and don't freak out, but even Saxton Hale out of there.

That's sort of just personal opinion, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 24, 2013, 01:28:35 AM
I have a question for you guys. I was comparing the filesizes for each of the songs, and I forgot that Slenderman's song changed from Silversin to Balrog. Do you like the wind howling as it is in Balrog's, or did you want to go with a somewhat creepy song?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 01:29:56 AM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
I'd pull CBS, Ninja Spy, Seemen, and don't freak out, but even Saxton Hale out of there.

That's sort of just personal opinion, though.

You know I actually am not against that.


Anyway, the Ghost of Starman's skin is ready to be used as well so don't forget about that.
As for Captain Falcon's moveset, here it is.

(click to show/hide)



EDIT: Ninja'd with another question. I don't care what you do for Slendy's theme to be honest. But I wouldn't mind hearing music of some sort instead of ambient noise.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Linnie on July 24, 2013, 01:45:28 AM
Question: Will this mod have that code that disallows classes, or will that be removed so everyone can have fun with it?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 24, 2013, 02:14:16 AM
@Gizmo, I had no idea Starman's skin was ready. I'll see if I can find it. As for Captain Falcon, I still haven't even tried making a hale yet, so I will probably only try if no one else is willing to try to code him.

@Linnie, I probably would not expect it to be in, but I would rather people not mix this with Classes at this point. As far as fixing compatibility with Classes, I do not play Classes myself, so this would get passed to someone else to do, but it definitely would be at near the very bottom on the priority list for right now.

If anyone wants to work on the mod right now, I did do a little work to it, though much more still needs to be done. It is just I feel I cannot do every single thing on the todo list, though I can do most of it. Here is how the mod stands at the moment:

Code: [Select]
Alpha TO-DO:

-Organize Decorate into the actors folder and update the hale actors.
-Port sounds from Balrog/Overhaul.
-Update SBARINFO so bars for Balrog's hales will show up properly (both vertical and horizontal).
-Make sure the new sprites will display properly.
-Grab GOSM's new skin.
-Revise Captain Falcon's moveset.
-Revise the SAXTON acs to include Balrog's Hales and check for other outdated things.
-Port GLOBAL acs to update the LMS Randomizer. Make a fix to prevent players from using some weapons from Eddie?
-Revise damagetypes to ensure proper protection is provided for all hale weapons.
-Revise the Megaman class so new deaths from bosses like Scrooge is accounted for.

The changes I have currently done are:

Code: [Select]
-Removed NeoDS and PO Roll completely. ~TMK4
-Got in all sprites from the Overhaul. ~TMK4
-Replaced the SNDINFO file with the one from the Overhaul. ~TMK4
-Ported music for Morshu, Captain Falcon, Ninja Spy, Quote and Curly, and the Draw Game song from the Overhaul. ~TMK4


At this point I am still unsure what to do with Slenderman's song, so I will wait for some more input on that. The only thing on the Todo list that I may have trouble with is with Captain Falcon, but I could likely do the rest of the stuff.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 24, 2013, 02:20:49 AM
Slendy shouldn't have a song so that it makes everything scarier.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 02:24:39 AM
I would give Falcon a shot, but I have no time on my hands for that right now. As for the skins, I have them right here.

Captain Falcon (http://www.mediafire.com/download/sc5u4pa7rak8033/Captain_Falcon.pk3)

Ghost of Starman (http://www.mediafire.com/download/bbc1z2mla77sb67/GhostofStarman.pk3)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Rozark on July 24, 2013, 05:40:08 AM
Here's a question.
Are you going to be that person to FINALLY put in the Morshu changes?

Also it's nice to finally see that I can have just 1 file for this instead of around 8-12 from all the hotfixes.

Good thing edits exist. Anyways, I have 1 1/2 ideas for a hale (CF gets the other half) when the time comes that you're ready for more suggestions. Good variety/Memetic?/Hilarities to be had there.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 24, 2013, 05:50:37 AM
I heard some discussion about Morshu being changed. If someone is willing to do the actor decorate for him, then I will be sure to put him in. As is I have very little experience making hales, though I do want to try sometime to make one.

In response to the idea of removing Saxton Hale, I have heard in the past of possibly just dropping the Saxton Hale name altogether and just get rid of the TF2 influence in the mode. I think I will leave that decision to you guys, but if we do go through with this, what should be a fitting name for the mod?

EDIT: Hmm, adding the skins will be tougher than I expected. I do not think I will have problems updating the sprites and sounds for Captain Falcon, but Starman I have no clue since I actually never played EarthBound. Are Starman's Intro Quotes getting replaced?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: JoshAdams88 on July 24, 2013, 06:38:16 AM
Oh, you're looking for a new name for the gamemode?
How about we call it "Boring Roboenza Rehash That Deserves Zero Attention"?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 24, 2013, 07:18:38 AM
Look out guys. We have a 1 poster here, yelling at a mod in a thread dedicated to said mod.

As far as name goes, would some influence of your own name be appropriate, Tails? Like "Top Tails in Town" or "Watch your Tail" (combination of watch your step and watch your back)? Maybe "Live to tell the Tail" (play on words, I know "Tale" is the correct term in this situation)? If you keep Saxton "Watch your Tail for Saxton Hale", or perhaps "1 Man Show: Dawn of the New Age". There's all kinds of possibilities, but you might want to be more specific towards what sort of name you're looking for.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Korby on July 24, 2013, 07:43:09 AM
"True Terminator"

It's similar to the default Terminator game mode but it has its differences. Maybe drawing some inspiration from that would be interesting?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on July 24, 2013, 07:44:27 AM
True Terminator sounds like a promising name.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Are Starman's Intro Quotes getting replaced?
As far as I know, no. I just put those sounds in there as taunts. You could have them play when he attacks though, but that's up to you. Personally I'd like it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 24, 2013, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Question: Will this mod have that code that disallows classes, or will that be removed so everyone can have fun with it?
I was actually hoping that there would be a version that could be playable with Special Classes.
I liked the idea of having unique balanced weapon classes and adding it to Hale would help make every character unique without giving them advantages over others.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 24, 2013, 05:48:46 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Question: Will this mod have that code that disallows classes, or will that be removed so everyone can have fun with it?
If I have any influence at all in this mod, it will. In Classes Saxton, the only people having fun are the stallers.

EDIT: Also, I'm currently working on the skeleton of "The Next Mutation" so we have something less messy to build on.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 24, 2013, 06:14:12 PM
Quote from: "Korby"
"True Terminator"

It's similar to the default Terminator game mode but it has its differences. Maybe drawing some inspiration from that would be interesting?
Tweaking the name a bit: Trueminator?

But True Terminator is a good simple name either way
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 24, 2013, 06:16:01 PM
Except that "True Terminator" isn't a good name at all. It's easy to confuse with the Terminator game mode, and SH is really nothing like Terminator since in that mode the sphere isn't trying to kill everyone.

Saxton Hale is fine.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Korby on July 24, 2013, 06:21:12 PM
Terminator mode: Someone picks up an orb to become super powerful and tries to kill everyone, tries not to die. Other people can pick up the orb.

Saxton Hale: Someone is randomly picked to be super powerful and tries to kill everyone, tries not to die. Small chance of a second person being picked.

Yes, as you can see, it's nothing like Terminator.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: MrL1193 on July 24, 2013, 06:38:35 PM
Quote from: "Balrog"
Quote from: "Linnie"
Question: Will this mod have that code that disallows classes, or will that be removed so everyone can have fun with it?
If I have any influence at all in this mod, it will. In Classes Saxton, the only people having fun are the stallers.
I won't get into the merits of Class SH in its current form again here, but I must say that I don't see what you're so afraid of. The two mods don't really work together without a hotfix anyway because of team attacks, so the only people who would host them together as-is would be those who just want to mess around or RP (meaning they don't care in the slightest about game balance anyway). And if someone does want to make a fix for the two mods, I doubt that the anti-classes code is going to stop them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 24, 2013, 07:02:40 PM
Quote from: "MrL1193"
I won't get into the merits of Class SH in its current form again here, but I must say that I don't see what you're so afraid of. The two mods don't really work together without a hotfix anyway because of team attacks, so the only people who would host them together as-is would be those who just want to mess around or RP (meaning they don't care in the slightest about game balance anyway). And if someone does want to make a fix for the two mods, I doubt that the anti-classes code is going to stop them.
That's the whole point of the anti-classes code. It's there to prevent derpers from herping and hosting the two together unaware of how awfully they go together. Hotfixes can do whatever the hell they want.

Quote from: "Korby"
Terminator mode: Someone picks up an orb to become super powerful and tries to kill everyone, tries not to die. Other people can pick up the orb.

Saxton Hale: Someone is randomly picked to be super powerful and tries to kill everyone, tries not to die. Small chance of a second person being picked.

Yes, as you can see, it's nothing like Terminator.
Well, when you put it like that  :mad:

My point about name confusion still stands, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 24, 2013, 07:27:43 PM
Uh, we could call it Boss Battles?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 24, 2013, 08:50:44 PM
@Nacho, uh...thanks for the idea, but I honestly think I would sound too prideful in my "work" if I did something like that. Word of mouth that I helped put the project together is enough for me.

As nice as "True Terminator" sounds, I see a big difference between this and Terminator. In Terminator mode, instant kill Magnet Missiles. No thanks. I would rather not compare Terminator with this. Plus really I could even say that the only difference between Deathmatch and Terminator is that Terminator has an orb that makes someone super powerful, otherwise it's just plain old DM. Saxton Hale is NOT just plain old LMS with a boss, unless you add incompatible weapons like Uki's weapons to the mix, then yeah, it becomes LMS with a Hale. In SH, you can't hurt anyone else except for the boss, with the RARE exception of someone grabbing hold of Junk Shield, since JS's projectiles can TK.

For Balrog, I still will work on my build from SilverSin's version, but I am fine with another option in case this one doesn't work out.

I will also take this time to mention that someone has taken up coding Captain Falcon's new movement set, so hopefully that works out well. Morshu is still up for grabs, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 24, 2013, 10:16:20 PM
Morshu is easy. Just give him a slowing Duo Fist as his mainfire, a DoT-ing Oil Slider that you can't slide on as his altfire, and shorten the fuse on his giant bomb. Done and done.

EDIT: Maybe something like this

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Rozark on July 24, 2013, 11:43:50 PM
Completely bypassing the list of suggested starter changes that besides including lamp oil/rope, hasn't been at all even considered.
Tails, at LEAST look at the log I'll send soon before you do anything Balrog just said.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 25, 2013, 12:03:23 AM
Quote
Rozark:
Alright, based on feedback that I got, here's the changes that I'd like to try.

-Half both bomb cooldowns
-Nerf the explosion radius on the regular bomb, not the rage bomb. For example, if the radius is 100, make it 75. Decrease it by 1/4 that it is currently.
-Change Super Jump to Wire. In short, whatever way Morshu is looking (not just the ceiling), the wire will come out and latch onto that segment. Morshu will then be propelled towards that location.
-The regular hale attack becomes a bronzish/goldish oil attack which deals about 15 damage, dealing burn damage of up to 5 over time. It's fire rate would be that of the regular megabuster speed, and the oil would fall downwards, similar to how oil slider is fired. However, you cannot ride on it. The current hale attack will either be his secondary attack that he can switch to, or removed completely if a secondary attack is simply too much.
-This might already be done: Make the regular bomb a 2hko instead of whatever it is.
-If you're implementing weaknesses, make him weak to fire. Makes sense.
Actually, what I made is exactly what you suggested, minus Wire Adaptor jumps (which would be horribly inconsistent) and making bombs available alongside lamp oil and rope (which would require a second item besides the super jump or hacky toggles, both of which would be messy in the heat of battle).

EDIT: urp, the rope attack is really Silver's idea. He also suggested that all three attacks use a recharging ammo bar.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 25, 2013, 02:54:17 AM
I know M.Bison isn't really being worried about at the moment, but I wanted to suggest giving him boosted jump height, even though he will have Captain Falcon's old "flying kick" style Psycho Crusher. (Uh, you were going to do that, right?)

While this solves most if not all of his mobility problem in the case of rushcoil, the main reason I wish for this is to put in the Head Press. If he's in midair for long enough, (Like Shademan's wing flapping trigger, for midair duration.) he should be able to pull that one off.

There are two ways it could play out, I think.

Option 1
(click to show/hide)

Option 2
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Hallan Parva on July 25, 2013, 02:56:15 AM
Option 1 in particular reminds me of a Bison Super from Street Fighter IV. Mess loves using it.


I un-affectionately refer to it as "the Bison Crotch". :ugeek:
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 25, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
I ended up not doing any work yesterday since Gummy asked me to help beta test LMSGames. I am at the point, however, where I can start updating the bosses themselves, since right now they are still in their outdated forms from SilverSin's mod. Before I do so, however, should there be any more changes to any of the bosses? Except for Captain Falcon and Morshu, I was just going to use the forms of the bosses in my Overhaul. I'd like to know about this before I start the detailed work of putting the bosses together.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Hallan Parva on July 25, 2013, 09:09:20 PM
Can you make Quote's uncharged not deal 40 damage? :ugeek:
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 25, 2013, 09:12:46 PM
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"
Can you make Quote's uncharged not deal 40 damage? :ugeek:
Good point. Although I find it funny that people playing Quote often charges his attack.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Balrog on July 26, 2013, 08:48:21 PM
Do what Tsuki said and tweak Cave's lemons so that they have a kill radius equivalent to their current effective kill radius when considering the DoT while removing their current DoT.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 26, 2013, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: "Balrog"
Do what Tsuki said and tweak Cave's lemons so that they have a kill radius equivalent to their current effective kill radius when considering the DoT while removing their current DoT.
Another idea I thought of is to do the "Ammo Rage" system for certain hales, like Sniper and Quote, allowing their rage to last based on shots rather than time (and remain with rage full until they used up all the ammo, as to prevent rage stacking similar to old Roll)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 29, 2013, 03:46:47 PM
This feels like a noob suggestion for some reason, but maybe allow Ra Thor to aim his attack?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on July 29, 2013, 03:48:23 PM
Uh, what do you mean by that? Do you mean you want him to be a ranged hale, or..

Does it just not angle?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on July 29, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
I mean even if you aim all the way down or up, it still just blasts the Black Hole parallel to the ground.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 29, 2013, 08:16:20 PM
I say: Force Ra Thor to stop moving completely or slow down while using the black hole. This prevents him from having extended reach and fire rate abuse.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Rozark on July 29, 2013, 09:04:28 PM
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
I say: Force Ra Thor to stop moving completely or slow down while using the black hole. This prevents him from having extended reach and fire rate abuse.

Because a rage that makes you stand still.. what?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on July 29, 2013, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
I say: Force Ra Thor to stop moving completely or slow down while using the black hole. This prevents him from having extended reach and fire rate abuse.

Because a rage that makes you stand still.. what?
(click to show/hide)

Black Hole (main attack) != Dark Dash or something (rage)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: Rozark on July 29, 2013, 09:35:00 PM
Right, I'm not all knowing on this Saxton Hale. I know the hales/don't know all the names of the attacks. In fact, I've dubbed EVERY VERSION OF SAXTON HALE "50 Shades of Saxton Hale". What with all the people trying to fix it, I can't help but just find this whole mess silly.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on July 29, 2013, 09:39:56 PM
Meh, I guess it's funny that so many people want to make it their own. But, no one cares about that, they just like playing it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 06, 2013, 08:44:22 PM
All right, so I know the business about Saxton Hale has been fairly quiet lately save for the return of the Classes + SH Combo. I kind of had to take a break and look again at how best to tackle the start of this. I realize now that Balrog actually had a fairly stable version of SH. I looked at Silversin's coding for the mod...let me just say that Balrog deserves credit to actually make that code readable. I have decided that I will build Saxton Hale Rebirth off the Overhaul. I will be doing some much-needed bug fixes for the Overhaul, but here is a list of changes that I can remember attempting to do in the near future:

-Ghost of Starman and Captain Falcon will have their new skins.
-If it is finished before the time of the release, Captain Falcon's new movement will be put in. He will be more combo-based and will have an extra move or two that the player controlling him can do. This will also go for Morshu or Bison if they are also ready, though I have not heard of any progress on those two.
-I will be considering nerfing Quote a little bit, though Jolteon informed me he had already nerfed him a bit in the Overhaul. If that's the case I will not do any more to him.
-The Seemen will have their skins changed back to Burstman and Napalmman as in R4-R5.
-Perhaps finally an end to the color transitions bug.
-Fix a bug so last survivors will get spread rune and the last song will play if only the second hale in a duo battle is still alive.
-Make a fix so players cannot receive weapons from Eddie that can sometimes break the game a bit, namely Wood Shield (can block some, but not all, hale attacks) and Junk Shield (it can TK).
-Finally give Curly the correct item graphic for her rage (she had been using Quote's Booster item icon when she actually had an unused icon for her clones).
-Some various text fixes, like fixing CBS's name in his introduction.

Still am not accepting new hales, but that will probably change after the official first release of Rebirth. In the meantime, I still am open to suggestions/comments/bug reports/etc. I also have a question for you guys: Should we keep the stages that SilverSin made for the wad, or remove them? SAXMAP1-SAXMAP3 were in SilverSin's mod, and I have been hearing lately that the maps are not really that liked among the players. The decision is fine either way for me, but it would save us some memory if we chose to remove the maps, but only if people would rather see them gone.

Also, I shall arrange soon a Skype chat for Saxton Hale development. If you would like to be a part of it, PM me your Skype name. Ultimately, though, if you want credit for the mod, you will have to submit something. We can talk about that later.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Brainstorming Phase)
Post by: FTX6004 on August 06, 2013, 08:47:31 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
-The Seemen will have their skins changed back to Burstman and Napalmman as in R4-R5.

Oh yes! I really wanted the skins back to Seemen, i really can't understand who is seelidier and seeman with those Geminiman skins.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on August 06, 2013, 09:05:49 PM
I am more happy about the change in Cap. Falcon so he can have combos.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Hallan Parva on August 06, 2013, 10:39:33 PM
how about you just take those hugeass maps out already and we have fun like normal people
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TheDoc on August 06, 2013, 11:05:24 PM
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"
how about you just take those hugeass maps out already and we have fun like normal people

^
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on August 07, 2013, 02:27:54 AM
I'm glad to see things are starting to pick up. I would love to participate in the skype chat, and I'm fairly certain that we have each other in contacts.
As for the maps, 1 is ridiculously huge and promotes stall matches full of camping, the other is also really big and just doesn't really sit well with me. And then there's a CTF map rip in there. All three of those can go if you ask me.

If we're going to have any sort of Saxton Hale based maps, I think we should make new ones. The concept they held was fair enough, in that the hale starts away from the others in his own separate room/space, but the maps themselves were not executed very well.
At the same time, I propose that the maps should be made separate from the main mod. The maps should be an extra addon.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 07, 2013, 04:57:02 AM
Just a list of thoughts concerning this mod and my relation to it:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 08, 2013, 06:16:37 AM
Just thought I'd give people that weren't in the Dev Chat recently some news. Our first beta was produced, and re-reproduced due to some bugs found. This will not be a public beta, but that may come later. I cannot remember all the details of the first beta, as I am feeling very sleepy right now, but I will say it's coming along quite nicely. A lot of the bugs that occurred in the Overhaul, minus the skin color bug, have been fixed. The skin color bug WILL be resolved before the official release, so don't worry about that. Various text fixes have been made as well, such as now a correct obituary for Cave Johnson, and Sniper is no longer referred to as his robot. The first official release will have a LOT of new fixes and additions, so it will be well worth the wait. As for the release date, we are going to hold off on an official release until after MM8BDM V3b is released so we can make sure the mod will be compatible with it. As such, it will be at least a week at the earliest before the official version one comes out.

EDIT: Because I care about my spelling and grammar.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Ceridran on August 09, 2013, 08:39:58 PM
1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)

2: Use Famitracker music that may or may not be made by the community, and remove voiceclips. Please. It retains the classic game feel. The music for Quote and Curly is an exception for changes.

With Saxton Hale himself gone, who's the simple character?

Scrooge McDuck. He's simple as Saxton Hale, and more interesting. Plus, it's satisfying to send someone flying straight up as you hit them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 09, 2013, 08:50:44 PM
How many characters would we even have without Valve characters? I don't see the need to remove them; I'm of the opinion they should stay for legacy purposes, at very least Saxton himself. Seeman and Seelder also have a unique playstyle, being the only Melee-only duo. I'm of the opinion Cave should also stay due to being the only character with a Napalm Bomb-like projectile as a main weapon.


It just seems like too much work to remove half the characters and replace them with entirely new and yet still balanced and unique characters, especially when it was just said that they finished a private beta.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 09, 2013, 08:59:55 PM
That said, wouldn't it be a really cool idea to add some old school characters to the mix after the publicbetav1a? Imagine Bowser running around chomping Roll :P
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 09, 2013, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)


If you've personally made another 6-7 hales to replace the ones you're telling us to pull to fill these spots, then it's considered.
Otherwise continue dreaming.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 09, 2013, 09:36:39 PM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
1: Pull out all the TF2 characters, possibly Cave and Slenderman as well, put mostly classic gaming characters as we have now. While not Megaman, it's fairly accurate to what we should be doing. (Not EVERY character would be classic characters for sure.)

2: Use Famitracker music that may or may not be made by the community, and remove voiceclips. Please. It retains the classic game feel. The music for Quote and Curly is an exception for changes.


1. Not going to happen, unless a majority of the people on here support their removal. As for the classic characters, just continue to hold off on requests for now.

2. I personally enjoy the voiceclips, but if you got 8-bit-like music of the original themes, I'm all for it. I'm not a music maker, though.

Btw, I actually had wanted Scrooge scrapped before since it was a MM8BDM meme. Since we now have bosses like Morshu and Captain Falcon, though, I am fine with him staying in.


Quote from: "Nacho"
That said, wouldn't it be a really cool idea to add some old school characters to the mix after the publicbetav1a? Imagine Bowser running around chomping Roll :P

I actually have seen a few hales privately, and Bowser was one of them. However, at this time, I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release. Gizmo, get online. Can't test duo hales without a third person.


I will say this once more, no hales are going to get removed or added unless the majority of people say so. This is the exact reason why NeoDS and Pissed Off Roll didn't return.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 10, 2013, 02:03:55 AM
Quote from: "Nacho"
after the publicbetav1a?

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release.


Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 10, 2013, 04:16:41 AM
I just played Lego's version of Hale, and I have to make sure, this one is going to be closer to the normal Hale, right?

Lego's Hale just, wasn't fun, there wasn't any variety in the Hales, the Hales were nothing but Megaman characters which took away the fun of taking down Hale -- the Hales are supposed to be big and intimidating, like Captain Falcon, and Quote and Curly. One of the three Hales was a bird, and another was Auto. Even when the normal Hale had characters that played exactly the same, it was, "Saxton Hale plays like Scrooge." They're completely different characters appearance-wise, so it still felt like a different Hale. Having Hales from the same game that play exactly the same way doesn't feel any different. The only part I liked was the reverse Exit item that could send the Hale away.


I couldn't find Lego's thread, so I came to the most relevant thread I could to voice my criticisms. The whole thing just gave off the "no fun allowed" vibe, no classes buster only Final Destination. Please don't do what Lego did, although I don't think you will judging by you keeping in most of the Hales.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 10, 2013, 05:23:32 AM
I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on August 10, 2013, 05:27:59 AM
Quote from: "Nacho"
Quote from: "Nacho"
after the publicbetav1a?

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I am not accepting hale ideas until we have a stable first release.


Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.

V3B might come out on Sunday or Monday as Ivory said on the Answer Questions Above You thread. It's being held off so that any compatibility issues can be fixed, like any other mods.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 10, 2013, 05:29:51 AM
Quote from: "Rozark"
I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.
But it's so much fun.

And, didn't Balrog one put an anti-classes code in his version? Then everyone just played the older version. It seems if you make your Hale anti-classes you'll just drive people to the competition.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 10, 2013, 06:07:52 AM
Is waiting for a quickman fun?
Better yet; is waiting for a gyroman fun?
Is it fun to try and kill gyro or quick men?
Is it fun waiting 5 minutes DEAD while the hale tries to kill these gyro or quick men?

Seriously, Classes x Saxton isn't fun.

Also, people played the older version because the newer version had numerous bugs in it because those people don't know how to compile code efficiently.

People started playing the new version once PO Roll was removed, which personally I never had a problem with. Removing a hale instead of nerfing the healing? Why? That's just lazy.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 10, 2013, 06:10:41 AM
I should probably not post so much as to avoid a possible double post when it's actually time to release a project...but eh, at least discussions are going on, so I will try to keep them going.

Quote from: "Nacho"
Just curious, what's holding you back from just releasing what you have for now? I know you're holding off until v3b for a public thing, but if you've begun the project why not just release what you have so people have something to see and make a little changelog from there? I'm kinda dying to see stuff because I'm almost always on if there's a Balrog Saxton Hale server with people in it.


For one thing, although I have confirmed the fix works on my end, duo hales have not been properly tested since I wasn't able to get a test session going with at least four people. I believe I have fixed the bug that allows the last survivor to get spread when the boss left at the time is Seeldier or Curly. Also, one thing I hope to get in by the time we make an official release is the new movement for Captain Falcon. He is quite unique now. The only thing that remains from the old movement is his rage.

While the topic comes to mind, Balrog still has not told me anything about M. Bison...so I will have to say the deadline for him is past now. However, he will be considered when it is time for new hales to be accepted. I have not set a limit of how many may be accepted...but having too many hales may be a problem. I will have to discuss with the development team on when enough is enough. As it is we have...I think it's 15 now.


Quote from: "Linnie"
I just played Lego's version of Hale, and I have to make sure, this one is going to be closer to the normal Hale, right?

Lego's Hale just, wasn't fun, there wasn't any variety in the Hales, the Hales were nothing but Megaman characters which took away the fun of taking down Hale -- the Hales are supposed to be big and intimidating, like Captain Falcon, and Quote and Curly. One of the three Hales was a bird, and another was Auto. Even when the normal Hale had characters that played exactly the same, it was, "Saxton Hale plays like Scrooge." They're completely different characters appearance-wise, so it still felt like a different Hale. Having Hales from the same game that play exactly the same way doesn't feel any different. The only part I liked was the reverse Exit item that could send the Hale away.

I couldn't find Lego's thread, so I came to the most relevant thread I could to voice my criticisms. The whole thing just gave off the "no fun allowed" vibe, no classes buster only Final Destination. Please don't do what Lego did, although I don't think you will judging by you keeping in most of the Hales.


When this was made, SilverSin tried to make it as close to the original as possible, almost like a port of the mode. So yes, this one is closer to the original, though the original was in what we would call TLMS, not LMS.

For Lego's, I noticed there wasn't much variety in the hales, but do keep in mind his mod is very outdated. I am sure he has worked on his mod some more since then, but he hasn't said anything. I don't even know if he's working on it anymore. I did like the item where you could force someone (not just the hale, but other players too), to be teleported to another spot. I think I will ask for permission to copy that item. I kind of want to try to combine the two mods, actually, in some way. My main complaint about the mode, though, is that Lego's hales quickly fold in a big server, though Balrog's hales at least have some chance. I even think still that Balrog's hales need to be buffed a bit more.


Quote from: "Rozark"
I've said it once I've said it not enough times.
Classes x Saxton should never be a thing.


Alas, I wish I could not let that happen, but I cannot stop people from trying to do it anyway. There were actually people that said they were thinking of quitting MM8BDM altogether with this combo around, though they were people that liked "competitive" modes. I did not care for the combo myself, but there is no way I can prevent someone with a little coding knowledge from trying to do it anyway. Just know that official releases with this project will not have (any) Classes compatibility in mind.


EDIT:

Quote from: "Rozark"
People started playing the new version once PO Roll was removed, which personally I never had a problem with. Removing a hale instead of nerfing the healing? Why? That's just lazy.


Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I will say this once more again, no hales are going to get removed or added unless the majority of people say so. This is the exact reason why NeoDS and Pissed Off Roll didn't return.


If you would rather get her back in, then by all means try to convince the majority to join you. If you do so, I'll listen to your proposed changes. I leave matters like this to democracy. Hope you understand my stance on this.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: MrL1193 on August 10, 2013, 08:23:15 AM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Is waiting for a quickman fun?
Better yet; is waiting for a gyroman fun?
Is it fun to try and kill gyro or quick men?
Is it fun waiting 5 minutes DEAD while the hale tries to kill these gyro or quick men?

Seriously, Classes x Saxton isn't fun.
Believe me, I wish Quick Man and Gyro Man were the only problems posed by the classes. It would make my work a lot easier...The mod combination seems relatively bug-free now, so I've turned my attention to balance issues now. Quick Man and Gyro Man are not hard to tweak. It's trying to make sure that every other class is also reasonably well balanced that's time-consuming...but even so, I still maintain that none of the usual criticisms leveled at the mod combination are impossible to correct.

Oh, and just in case anyone might have missed them, I fixed a few bugs in the Saxton Hale mod itself:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 10, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Classes Saxton is the worst game mode. Period. It's so conceptually flawed that I can almost guarantee that no tweaking will make it nearly as fun as regular Hale. I'm starting to agree with Tails and hate classes in general. I would have more than happily tested the mod, but whatever, I guess. If you need someone for testing in general, I'll be more than happy, although you'd probably prefer someone that you've known for a while or something. If so, I understand.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: JaxOf7 on August 10, 2013, 01:12:07 PM
http://vssaxtonhale.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bosses (http://vssaxtonhale.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bosses)
Quote
?Bosses always move 10% faster than the slowest class alive.

Check me out, I just fixed Classes Saxton Hale.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 10, 2013, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Is waiting for a quickman fun?
Not particularly.

Quote from: "Rozark"
Better yet; is waiting for a gyroman fun?
I wouldn't say that is that fun either, though to be honest I don't see people play Gyro that much anymore. Nor do I Quick. I think it's because they were both nerfed with v6g.

Quote from: "Rozark"
Is it fun to try and kill gyro or quick men?
Yes.

I find the cat-and-mouse chase to be fun when I'm the Hale.

Quote from: "Rozark"
Is it fun waiting 5 minutes DEAD while the hale tries to kill these gyro or quick men?
That sounds like a rather loaded question. Of course waiting isn't fun, but you're going to have to wait in no-fun-allowed Saxton too.

Quote from: "Rozark"
Also, people played the older version because the newer version had numerous bugs in it because those people don't know how to compile code efficiently.
Yeah, while I was in the Lego server, people tried to say "this version is better because it's compiled better." What does that even mean to someone who isn't involved in the development of the project? How does being compiled better make it more fun? Other than the occasional crash I've never had a problem with Hale, and I haven't even crashed in a good while.

Quote from: "Rozark"
People started playing the new version once PO Roll was removed, which personally I never had a problem with. Removing a hale instead of nerfing the healing? Why? That's just lazy.
I have to admit I liked the brokenness of PO'd Roll; this probably belongs in the funnies thread, but one round I got picked as PO'd Roll, and the rest of the server was in party mode -- they would all pick the same class each round -- and on that round it was Burstman, so half of them were Burstman. Immediately in the round they ambushed me and kept trapping me in their bubble, spacing their shots so I couldn't get out, and the rest of the players just went all out on me. My health started draining, but someone was using a rage-building attack, so I kept healing. Eventually my healing stacked high enough that, when I was at about 100-200 health, it started going up despite all the damage, and eventually I could keep spamming my rage despite being trapped and not die, and the game went into a deadlock. After about three minutes someone called a vote to change the map and end it, but it had to've been the funniest round of Hale I've ever participated in.

Quote from: "JaxOf7"
http://vssaxtonhale.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Bosses
Quote
?Bosses always move 10% faster than the slowest class alive.

Check me out, I just fixed Classes Saxton Hale.
Fund it! This is a great idea.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 10, 2013, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
I have to admit I liked the brokenness of PO'd Roll; this probably belongs in the funnies thread, but one round I got picked as PO'd Roll, and the rest of the server was in party mode -- they would all pick the same class each round -- and on that round it was Burstman, so half of them were Burstman. Immediately in the round they ambushed me and kept trapping me in their bubble, spacing their shots so I couldn't get out, and the rest of the players just went all out on me. My health started draining, but someone was using a rage-building attack, so I kept healing. Eventually my healing stacked high enough that, when I was at about 100-200 health, it started going up despite all the damage, and eventually I could keep spamming my rage despite being trapped and not die, and the game went into a deadlock. After about three minutes someone called a vote to change the map and end it, but it had to've been the funniest round of Hale I've ever participated in.

Because one of the contributing factors, if not only, to why PO Roll was removed was because of classes.
How about you add her back and nerf her, seeing as that was the case ^.
Tails, you already expressed how you don't like classes. If people decide to play classes with this, then they can deal with PO Roll. It's their fault for combining such mods together in the first place. You shouldn't have to remove or balance hales based on classes; it's the same reason you don't build maps for classes either.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 10, 2013, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: "Rozark"
Because one of the contributing factors, if not only, to why PO Roll was removed was because of classes.
How about you add her back and nerf her, seeing as that was the case ^.


Rozark...I don't think you understood me at all.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
If you would rather get her back in, then by all means try to convince the majority to join you. If you do so, I'll listen to your proposed changes. I leave matters like this to democracy. Hope you understand my stance on this.


Do what is underlined and I'll listen. Roll was removed because the community didn't want her back, nor did NeoDS. Now you are trying to make me come up with an excuse for removing her after I gave it out to a vote:


Quote from: "TailsMK4"
As for the hales themselves...the only ones that seem uncertain to me are Pissed Off Roll and NeoDS. Should we bring them back, but maybe work on them so they are a little more enjoyable, or just not bring them back at all?

Quote from: "MrL1193"
On the other hand, I never liked PO Roll (even just as a character, without the overpowered healing ability) and would not be sorry if she didn't return.

Quote from: "Gizmo The Cat"
I don't want PO'd Roll to come back,


I realize there were not that many votes, but if there were people that actually wanted her back, I am sure they would have said something. And btw...I never did Classes Saxton until just recently with MrL's version, so I had no idea Roll was effective against classes. I just do not like it when people assume things for my motives that are not true at all.

Rozark, all it takes is to find a way to make Roll more appealing to the community and she will be back in. I only removed her because the support for her returning was not that strong. This also goes for NeoDS. You should not be targeting me but rather the people that play Saxton Hale to come to your side. I will not add a hale back in that people currently hate, even if I personally wanted the hale back.

I'm only taking a hard stance because I want the best for the mod. If there ends up being overwhelming support for a former hale to return, then I will make all efforts to bring the hale back.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 10, 2013, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Yes.

I find the cat-and-mouse chase to be fun when I'm the Hale.


. . .

The only issue is the Hale is a handicapped cat and the mouse is about as successful as Jerry is in beating Tom.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: ZeStopper on August 10, 2013, 10:58:58 PM
Quote from: "Nacho"
Quote from: "Linnie"
Yes.

I find the cat-and-mouse chase to be fun when I'm the Hale.


. . .

The only issue is the Hale is a handicapped cat and the mouse is about as successful as Jerry is in beating Tom.
So what is the element of stalling with Gyro, Snake, Metal, Shadow, Quick, and maybe more?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 10, 2013, 11:11:56 PM
Quote from: "ThePlayer"
So what is the element of stalling with Gyro, Snake, Metal, Shadow, Quick, and maybe more?

I'm not completely sure I understand your question.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on August 11, 2013, 02:59:07 AM
Basicly he is asking how these classes stall the Hales.
Gyro can fly and is fast.
Quick is fast.
Snake and Metal can climb walls forever.
Shadow can become invisible.
Cloud and Shade can fly.
Drill can footlock himself up walls.
Just some examples.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 11, 2013, 03:04:30 PM
Well, that list isn't really true.

There's also Burst Man who can temporarily fly (yes I have had a Burst Man stall on me, with Wave Bikes too, that was really fun), Pharaoh Man who can hover, Gravity Man who in some maps can easily get away, Spring Man who can easily run away, Charge Man who can dash, Centy who can teleport, all the classes who can jump higher than normal,  etc.


Just playing devil's advocate.

Quote from: "Nacho"
. . .
The only issue is the Hale is a handicapped cat and the mouse is about as successful as Jerry is in beating Tom.
Well, if the player didn't stand a chance, how would that be any fun for the player? I don't see why players having as small advantage over Hale is a bad thing when in vanilla Saxton, the Hale has a large advantage. It's a nice alternative in tone, and the Hale still wins plenty of times.


As for Roll only being broken in classes, that wasn't my message at all. I was just pointing out how I've had fun with PO'd Roll. Yes, having a class was the reason for that infinite lock, but, an unbeatable scenario is just as likely to happen in vanilla if someone keeps using a rage-building weapon. I would like PO'd Roll to be back, but I'm not going to go aggressive on this topic because there have been times in which I found her to be annoying.

I've never played against NeoDS. Who are they?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Korby on August 11, 2013, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
Snake and Metal can climb walls forever.

What version of classes you playin', boy?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Rozark on August 11, 2013, 04:16:29 PM
There was once a user named Neo who made a self insert of himself as a hale. Basically, MMBN6 Boss music + OP Dash + High speed + melee. I believe the dash could be switched with an uppercut of sorts. If it wasn't for it being a self insert and how he reacted when we even DISCUSSED it, it would still be in today. You could always nerf/change a few things and call it Zero, or I'm missing something else on to why NeoDS was removed.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 11, 2013, 04:49:47 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Well, that list isn't really true.

Do you plan to elaborate on that?

Quote from: "Nacho"
. . .
The only issue is the Hale is a handicapped cat and the mouse is about as successful as Jerry is in beating Tom.

Quote from: "Linnie"
Well, if the player didn't stand a chance, how would that be any fun for the player? I don't see why players having as small advantage over Hale is a bad thing when in vanilla Saxton, the Hale has a large advantage. It's a nice alternative in tone, and the Hale still wins plenty of times.

The Hale most definitely does not have a large advantage. I guess you can argue that in R7, the Hales have too much health, but with enough people, the Hale is completely screwed. Even that argument is invalid, though, when you realize you're posting in TMK4's Workshop (the same one that gave birth to the Overhaul that has basically replaced R7 for now in normal Hale). In Overhaul, how does the Hale have an advantage at all? The survivor almost always gets 4-5 weapons and at least 1 is nearly always effective in a Hale match. Spreadrune makes some weapons downright ridiculous. If a Hale has a bad rage and the survivor has a weapon like Crash Bomb, Flash Bomb, Napalm Bomb, etc., the Hale is dead. Spreadrune Atomic Fire is just insane, not to mention stuff like Scorch Wheel that renders the Hale useless while it's active. Unless it's an extremely small server (which Classes Hale unfortunately never is), I simply disagree with your statement "the Hale wins plenty of times."
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 11, 2013, 05:43:03 PM
By "isn't really true," I was joking; every point on the list is true, I was just adding more to the list. By not true, I meant incomplete.

And, I have indeed seen Hale servers only have 5-6 people.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on August 11, 2013, 11:14:18 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
By "isn't really true," I was joking; every point on the list is true, I was just adding more to the list. By not true, I meant incomplete.

And, I have indeed seen Hale servers only have 5-6 people.
I did only say those were examples.

Quote from: "Korby"
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
Snake and Metal can climb walls forever.

What version of classes you playin', boy?
As I play neither class I thought they could.  Point still is they can climb walls.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Linnie on August 11, 2013, 11:17:30 PM
They can still climb walls for a very long time.

But, the only maps where such would be an issue are hugely vertical maps like MM2DW1.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 12, 2013, 09:16:34 PM
Code: [Select]
- Busters now have their own damage types (Ex. BassBuster, ArrowBuster etc)
Ugh...I got some work to do. I will not host the Overhaul as is, so I will upload a fixed version of the Overhaul once I can get around to it. This will be the final version of the Overhaul, cause from here on out anything SH related will be with the Rebirth project. Expect it up on BE fairly soon. In case you were wondering, this means TKing will happen in the current version because now with weapons like Bass Buster having a different damagetype.

I know you guys dislike having to do another download, but bear with me on this. I was not expecting to have to do another update, but so be it. The blame this time is on the Cutstuff staff, but hey, it's a new version, so this will be worth it in the long run.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 12, 2013, 09:50:46 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Expect it up on BE fairly soon.

The Overhaul or Rebirth? If you mean the Rebirth, I'm pretty sure a good amount of people would like that more than work being put into the Overhaul at this point.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 12, 2013, 09:55:21 PM
The Overhaul. The Rebirth mod will probably take a while to do, since the gameplay will...be changed considerably. That is all I will say at this time.

The server with the fix is up, btw.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: MrL1193 on August 14, 2013, 07:06:33 AM
Just a minor issue I noticed today...Weak Mirror Buster shots still can damage allies. Apparently, each level of shot was given its own damagetype, and while "MirrorBuster1" and "MirrorBuster2" are covered by the player immunities, "MirrorBuster" isn't. Fortunately, it's not too common for someone to get their hands on the Mirror Buster at all, and allies can just avoid shooting at any would-be Mirror Buster trolls. It's not an urgent problem, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: Zomo.exe on August 19, 2013, 09:20:37 AM
I'm just curious, but seeing as you say that Saxton Hale gameplay will be changed a lot with Rebirth... would any other tester requests be considered at all (should it be deemed necessary)? I probably should throw out that I have Skype if it matters at all. Besides, I could use a good excuse to start getting into playing 8BDM with some voice chat, and while I don't know jack shit about coding/mapping at the moment, I feel at this point that maybe I can still help. I'd understand if this came too late or you simply won't allow any more people.

Also, I don't blame you for not joining the classes hype. You obviously cannot handle the true power of the buffed Hardman. :D

That and the fact that these two mods together cause more crashes than any other server I've ever played on. I probably should mention that MrL is definitely doing his best to balance what needs balancing and nerfing the hell out of stallers. But yeah, I understand why people hate these two mods together. I just play for the sake of everyone else is doing it and the fact that there are funny antics that can be pulled (tower of Hardmen using their alt attack on top of each other is not something to be scoffed at; they WILL make you cry).
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Building Phase)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 20, 2013, 09:06:00 PM
Basically echoing Zomo.exe's notion; even a while back I posted to say I could beta test stuff and that's also applicable to Rebirth.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 21, 2013, 07:45:01 AM
First post got a much needed update. Anyway, just a couple of things I wanted to point out:

1. Regarding Endless Attack, should I implement the Mission Mode Classes, or stick to regular gameplay? Regardless of whatever option, I will be using enemies from Mission Mode.

2. Progress is slow on Saxton Hale Rebirth, but that is also because the current tasks are not being done by me, so I have no idea how those are coming along. I will, however, stress something that I have said earlier in this thread: I am concerned with the predictable effect of combining Classes with Saxton Hale. I have made my decision on this issue, and it is final: this mod in the future will be made incompatible with YD's Classes. All of the current talk about the combination of the two mods has solidified my beliefs that Classes breaks the intentional gameplay of Saxton Hale by bringing in classes that can stall matches and cause havoc on the hales, and overall an imbalance in classes, with some being significantly better than other classes, when the true intention of Saxton Hale was to make it team-focused. Rebirth will be more team-focused than SilverSin's/Balrog's version, while keeping the balance between the players and the hales better than Lego's version.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Hallan Parva on August 21, 2013, 12:49:39 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Regarding Endless Attack, should I implement the Strength in Numbers Classes, or stick to regular gameplay?
fixed that for you :ugeek:
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: -Daiki-TheOni on August 21, 2013, 01:12:29 PM
Make a poll for that... but In my opinion...better without classes
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: FTX6004 on August 21, 2013, 02:21:46 PM
Yeah or tell the guy who hosted the server to close it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Linnie on August 21, 2013, 03:52:57 PM
Welp, at least we have MrL to make it compatible with classes again.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Hallan Parva on August 21, 2013, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
make it compatible with classes again
did you even read
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Rozark on August 21, 2013, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Welp, at least we have MrL to make it compatible with classes again.

I recently decided to try Class Saxton Hale once more/MrL version because i'm too forgiving in life.

I understand Gyroman had a long flight and that probably needed a nerf, but for it to last not even a second then it recharges over 10 seconds? What? Quickman wasn't even touched; it's like it's purposely being made bad. It isn't balanced compatibility it's unnecessary broken compatibility that shouldn't even exist.

For everything that is good and amazing do NOT even touch this with classes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Ceridran on August 21, 2013, 04:07:36 PM
Hey guys, "Megaman" is a class. Have fun playing Saxton Hale Classes, you always had it after all!

.. Right, I'm aware it doesn't count.

Anyway, it's nice to hear that this will be happening.
It would be considered as "not tolerated" to make a compatibility fix,* yes? All that'd be doing is screwing with some lines of code making everybody have to redownload what is essentially the same WAD but with classes compatibility, wasting precious harddrive space if you're like me and you're down to 4,000 MB.





*Fix, in this case, means "ruin everything again"
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on August 21, 2013, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Quote from: "Linnie"
Welp, at least we have MrL to make it compatible with classes again.

I recently decided to try Class Saxton Hale once more/MrL version because i'm too forgiving in life.

I understand Gyroman had a long flight and that probably needed a nerf, but for it to last not even a second then it recharges over 10 seconds? What? Quickman wasn't even touched; it's like it's purposely being made bad. It isn't balanced compatibility it's unnecessary broken compatibility that shouldn't even exist.

For everything that is good and amazing do NOT even touch this with classes.
Added the fact that his "rebalance" is crashing (apparently ACS-wise) more often than unbalanced one.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: MrL1193 on August 21, 2013, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Quote from: "Linnie"
Welp, at least we have MrL to make it compatible with classes again.

I recently decided to try Class Saxton Hale once more/MrL version because i'm too forgiving in life.

I understand Gyroman had a long flight and that probably needed a nerf, but for it to last not even a second then it recharges over 10 seconds? What?
I know now that I nerfed him too much (and I have planned to buff him). I was erring on the side of caution because I knew that if I failed to nerf a class enough, it would cause far more trouble than if I nerfed the class too much.

Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Quickman wasn't even touched
...Excuse me? Quick Man's speed dropped from 1.35/1.33 to 1.15/1.13. His dash recharges at 1/3 the rate it used to. And Quick Boomerangs don't cause hit stun any more. A very few people have claimed that he's still too fast, but I haven't seen him causing nearly as much trouble as he used to.



Really, I'm starting to think more and more that the balance issues are just an excuse to complain about the Classes, when really, it's mainly because of personal taste that some people don't play modes with Classes. It's the only reason I can think of that people would just not care at all what I do to try to fix Class SH, or even dismiss it without even trying out the changed version to see if it's more fun. Perhaps I'm just a fool for ever thinking that Gyro Man and friends really were the reason some people hated the mode...

The one thing in Saxton Hale that probably doesn't mix well with classes on a fundamental level is running away from Slender Man to win (though it seems like people aren't too fond of him whether there are classes or not).

Regarding the crashes, all I can say is that the only ACS changes I made were to remove Ra Thor's hypnotism item from his inventory, raise the boss HP cap, and tweak the health scaling of certain bosses. That's it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Hallan Parva on August 21, 2013, 08:37:04 PM
Regardless, Tails still said he didn't want Classes to have anything to do with his version of VSH, so could you be a dear and listen to him for once?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 21, 2013, 09:17:19 PM
After reading the posts I see in the topic, I think I shall take a more lenient approach to MrL's work. The fact with how little experience you've had overall with coding, MrL, and the fact you made the combo playable is respectable. I am just considering the long term effects of doing such a combination, and I think the community, for now, will be better off without the combo. I only ask that you please do not try to combo this with Rebirth. There were some fingers being pointed at for the decline of players with the game, and a few landed in my direction with the Overhaul being combined with Classes. I am only trying to soften or perhaps reverse the recent turn of events.

I would have been fine if Classes Saxton (even Classes in general), wasn't constantly played all the time. At this time, I am looking at Doomseeker, and around 20 out of almost 40 players are playing YD's Classes (5 of the other ones are doing Tea Party, but those are beta testers). I am hosting three servers myself, including my Overhaul without classes, which only Survival Mission Mode has had activity recently. It is not entirely Saxton Hale's fault for such limited choices in servers, but I will admit it has some impact. Instead, I hope to attract more players that have had some negative experiences with either Balrog's or Lego's Saxton Hale to try out Rebirth when it is out. I also am, however, promoting other gamemodes, and I also intend to do more with CutManMike's Mission Mode (with perhaps Lego's extra classes as well), so that Saxton Hale won't be the only thing gathering attention. I am doing my part to help make the overall MM8BDM game more enjoyable, but I cannot do it without players hoping for change. All that I ask of you guys is to not think of YD's Classes as a base for every fun activity online. I have even had a new player ask to combine Mission Mode, which is meant to be like the original games but with 3D levels, with YD's Classes. That's how bad the Classes fever is. All of this is why I am taking a firm stance against Classes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Koal on August 21, 2013, 10:46:42 PM
Well nobody really attempts to host and/or play TLMS, LMS or CTF so it doesn't help that I would naturally defer to Saxton hale classes because I at least find it enjoyable when people aren't trying to stall the ever loving shit out of the game. That and I cannot really stand the feel of vanilla gameplay. I can only really tolerate it in TLMS and LMS mode but its practically unbearable in DM where its just run run run and shoot shoot shoot. Classes offer's a way to mix it up so that its not so mindnumbingly boring and insufferable. But I do agree that there comes a point when classes should stop and other gamemodes should take over.


And because I apparently cannot say this enough: ITS THE SAXTON HALES THEMSELVES THAT ARE AT FAULT!

We have four hale's that play almost identically aside from their rages! All the melee hales are easy to stall because they have no way of ever catching a Toadman or Quickman that's decided to stall the game, wasting everyone's time and in general making everyone loath and despise Saxton hale classes even more. If you guys would just give the existing melee saxton hales a ranged secondary while keeping their melee primary and start introducing more ranged hales there wouldn't be such a huge issue with the game mode. The problem will practically solve itself and we wouldn't need these unnecessary nerf's. Cloudman takes FOUR lightning strikes now to recharge his energy bar and poor gyro is practically useless now thanks to being nerfed so heavily. Springman and Crashman's jump nerf's were completely unnecessary as well as Darkman1's unwarranted jet nerf! Try fixing the Hale's instead of trying to fix the classes is all I'm really saying.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: The Killer Nacho on August 22, 2013, 12:27:05 AM
I kind of agree and disagree with Koal. I guess you can make custom Hales for Classes, but the thing I'm most worried about is that the community will push to have a bunch of ranged monstrosities that will make the Hales overpowered and kill classic Hale in the end anyway. If Overhaul is up (and since Classes Hale is always booming with popularity), I join that each and every single time over Classes Hale. I only join Classes Hale if there's nothing else besides Co-op or Vanilla (both of which I don't care for). What I'm saying is that it's a self-multiplying issue and allowing Classes Hale to be allowed at all may not be in your best interest if you want variety. The community goes through phases of game modes that are either present or absent: you allowing Classes Overhaul to exist in the first place has started a craze that isn't going away by asking nicely. It's borderline naïve to think that such a popular thing is going to decline by asking nicely; this hasn't worked in the past.

tl;dr: Community catches Classes fever and doesn't let go; don't let it happen and then think the community is flexible to change.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Koal on August 22, 2013, 12:51:31 AM
If you are referring to Morshu, he was already absurdly overpowered to begin with. And the classes actually stood a pretty good chance against the cave duo before the nerf. And the development team was taking suggestions for Hales, at least while Balrog was around. I don't know if they are doing that anymore.
But yes classes fever has taken hold and its here to stay, for better or for worse. The shark's have had a taste of blood and they will hunger for more. I firmly believe not making rebirth compatible with classes will ultimately cause it to be a flop as such, at least until the community gets sick of classes which might be a while at this rate.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 22, 2013, 01:23:33 AM
I was going to wait to discuss this with my dev team, but I think it's time you guys voice your opinions once again. Here and now will determine the future fate of the current hales in the game. I would like for you guys to kind of treat this like a poll. There have been some comments about a lack of variety with a few of the hales, and I intend for each of the hales to at least be modified in some way. You have two options for each of the hales in the game. One option is talking about your support for the hale being in, and if there are any changes you think would benefit the hale. If you would rather the hale be removed entirely from the game, just explain your reason for doing so. I will consider all of your comments upon making my decisions about each of the hales. Here is the list of hales up for debate, and this is the last time (promise) I will also mention the two previously removed hales:


Currently in:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of Starman
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Ra Thor
Gilgamesh
Slenderman
Scrooge McDuck
Morshu
Seeman and Seeldier
Quote and Curly


Currently in, but not debatable:

Captain Falcon (lots of work has already been done on him, and he is turning out quite nicely)


Currently out:

NeoDS
Pissed Off Roll


This is the last time I will bring these hales up all at once. Begin the debate!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: ZeStopper on August 22, 2013, 01:36:17 AM
Definitely keep in Falcon, his new work will make him more than the average/basic OHK-Hale.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on August 22, 2013, 01:48:31 AM
Remove Captain Falcon and bring back NeoDS, but change him so his dash and super jump are executed by items alone, while his altfire becomes his rage.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on August 22, 2013, 02:00:56 AM
I have a question about morshu. will his playstyle change or will it be the same as before to now?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Magnet Dood on August 22, 2013, 02:03:49 AM
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
Remove Captain Falcon and bring back NeoDS, but change him so his dash and super jump are executed by items alone, while his altfire becomes his rage.

Why the fuck would anyone re-add a forgotten and embittered Cutstuff Member-based hale that's a clone of Zero and remove CAPTAIN FALCON

Like geez

I'd just say rework Ghost of Starman to have something that isn't a stupid slash attack. Maybe give him PK Astro Crush as his main weapon, and when he receives damage he can do the suicide blow up thing with the countdown that takes out some of his health.

Also I'd prefer if Cave Johnson actually SHOT his lemons instead of lobbing them around. He's probably the weakest of the bunch.

And make Seeman and Seeldier Gemini Men again if they aren't already.

And rework Morshu because he's basically KY Bombman

And maybe take out RCBS and Scrooge

All the rest are fine
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Ceridran on August 22, 2013, 02:14:36 AM
Quote from: "Magnet Dood"
And maybe take out RCBS and Scrooge

Scrooge does Saxton's Job much better, I don't see the problem with him. As for CBS, yes, he can go.

Saxton Hale should definitely go. Again, Scrooge does it better. Especially plus the fact that "Saxton Hale Mode" is a name that I am plain SICK of hearing unless it's talking about TF2.

Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
Remove Captain Falcon and bring back NeoDS, but change him so his dash and super jump are executed by items alone, while his altfire becomes his rage.

You're saying that one of the bosses, which is currently being reworked into something among the levels of M.Bison in the uniqueness factor, should be tossed out, and bring back him?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Koal on August 22, 2013, 03:15:00 AM
Keep in Gilgamesh provided you can work in some sort of ranged attack for him that won't break him completely.

Scrap Saxton Hale. I honestly don't know how he can be redeemed. People just flee from him automatically when he uses his rage so unless his rage makes him faster ALONG with being invulnerable there is no point in keeping him.

Give Ghost of Starman a new primary attack and he should be solid. There is no sense in him even having a slash based attack anyways.

Make Falcon slightly faster and able to jump slightly higher and he should be perfectly fine. The fact that his attack functions like charge kick sets him a breed apart from all the other god damn melee hales.

Perhaps give Scrooge the ability to throw gold bars or bags of money at people or something? Otherwise he's perfectly fine.

NERF MORSHU'S PRIMARY. My god the fact that he can kill 3 people at any given time with just his primary alone is absurd. Nerf the damage of his primary, give him a new attack or two. And see if you can't make his rage more useful because right now it doesn't do a whole lot.

Christian brutal sniper has the same issue as Gilgamesh. Give him some form of ranged attack or something that will separate the two more. And make the arrows from his rage move slightly faster as it is quite difficult to hit moving targets with them.

I think Cave Johnson should be able to switch between firing and lobbing his lemon's. It'll give him more versatility at his disposal with out having to really add anything new.

Slenderman either needs to be completely reworked from the ground up or scrapped completely. I like the concept, but it was VERY poorly executed.

Ra Thor is a tricky one. If we are going based on Classes Saxton hale then he will need to have something to compensate for his lack of hypnotism. Perhaps an altfire that'll allow him to draw opponents in like Dustman's altfire does? If we are going based off of Vanilla Saxton then he really doesn't need any changes as Hypnotism sets him apart from all the other hales.

I've really got no suggestion's on how to change the See duo, but I honestly don't see many problems with them at the moment.

Quote and Curly are perfectly fine as is. They are welcome to stay.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 22, 2013, 03:22:15 AM
Koal's post was the kind I was hoping to get from you guys. Please talk about all of the hales in your post if you can, please. Also, I am not accepting suggestions about Falcon since he has an almost completely revised movement set. Koal's suggestions are really the only ones I can work with right now.

EDIT: I also can work a little bit with Dood's post, but I need more opinions.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Koal on August 22, 2013, 03:46:01 AM
And of course I talk about every Hale EXCEPT Ninja Spy.

Give Ninja Spy the ability to throw Shuriken's. And maybe even give him the item use smoke bombs similar to what the Assassin had in the megaman Mafia gamemode. Those are the only suggestions I can think up for him otherwise.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Zomo.exe on August 22, 2013, 04:17:09 AM
In the time that I've played 8BDM, I have seen a lot of things (which is not long, mind you), but with time I start to understand or basically relearn how a game is played because after all, this is doom, right? With that said, I have my thoughts on the existing bosses:

Gilgamesh: I agree with Koal here. He cannot for the life of himself deal with opponents from a distance. Perhaps something not as powerful as his melee attack could be put in? Also, this guy is a heavy guy, so as far as HP goes, his current formula is okay.

Saxton Hale: Personally one of the few hales I dread being. Why, you ask? Raging just makes everyone run like a wuss and laugh away while you usually cannot touch them. I'm not suggesting something as radical as 100% scrapping him, but I'd rather see a slight speed buff on him or speed nerf on everyone else during the first 10-15 seconds of the rage. The way TF2 handles it works quite nicely; that would be a good starting point on how to remodel it.

Ghost of Starman: I'm no Earthbound fan, but even I can say that a simple pimp slap attack will not suffice. The guy has some PSI abilities, why not let him have a few of those (obviously don't make them too OP), and maybe a slight rage nerf would be best.

CF: Because this guy is getting remodeled anyways, I don't have much to say except for the fact that his rage makes him vulnerable as hell. I would love to get a sneak peek of it though. <3

Scrooge: Whatever Saxton can do, this guy can do BETTER. He's fine as far as I'm concerned, but damn dat cane... '_'

Morshu: I'll try not to be too bias (or however it's spelled) here. My solution to his overpowered primary would be to tone it down some and come up with a new rage, one that preferably doesn't achieve more than making everyone just get the fuck out of there. The guy may have 16 seconds worth of voice acting, but something can be done I hope.

CBS: Almost a carbon copy of Gilgamesh minus his HP and rage. He also suffers from range syndrome, so again, a ranged weapon that of course doesn't OHKO but would make people think twice before trolling this boss would solve this issue nicely.

Cave Johnson: I miss the hard mode version where his lemons went where you shot them and not just bounce around. Not much else to say, except hard mode should definitely make a return. Bosses need to be a challenge, not Tsuki-friendly. Finding a balance between challenge and ability to beat a boss is hard to do; I realize this, which is kinda why I was interested in asking about helping with testing current boss changes and new bosses.

Slenderman: For a melee hale, he DOES NOT do justice to the real thing. Also another boss I dread being because he can be treated like a punching bag in the right circumstances. Either give the attack more reach and in more than one direction or just do a fresh start.

Ra Thor: Because I play both classes and non-classes, it's hard to give a neutral opinion. However, I will do this as best as I can. His Hypno ability can easily be wasted if you don't aim it right or use it on the wrong people. Should it hit however, his minions should have a bit more HP and their melee attacks be replaced with a weak yet insistent ranged attack, kinda like Curly's machine gun perhaps? That way, they aren't basically punching bags especially with the last survivor. As far as classes go, I can see why hypnotize was essentially disabled.

Seeman/Seeldier: They seem to be fine as is; however I do notice at time that one of the pair's rages can get by unnoticed, and can surprise the hell out of other players (this has happened to me definitely as Seeman at least a few times now), so hopefully Rebirth will solve that bug.

Ninja Spy: I think you said he was redone too in some way. I do kinda miss his old name/theme and voiceclips somewhat, lol. Other than that, would like to see his changes before giving feedback, as what I say now would be somewhat redundant if he was gonna have a big change in Rebirth.

Quote/Curly: Also fine as is. Sometimes I just wish Curly was almost on par with Quote with his primary weapon, because he's only truly dangerous with an army of clones. This could be looked into later, but not now.

As for the removed hales...

Pissed-Off Roll: I believe she was removed because of the fact that after so many rages were stacked upon each other, she could basically outheal any damage taken and probably end up with the HP she started with, if not more. An obvious nerf would solve this issue, such as not being able to use a rage again until the previous one has finished, or at least cut the amount of HP healed by the rage.

NeoDS: I cannot judge this one fairly, because in all honesty... I HAVE NEVER FOUGHT THIS BOSS NOR BEEN IT! I would love to see what he can do sometime on a closed server so I can give real insight. Even so, I wouldn't be against bringing it back for the purpose of history; all I'd say is just make him rarer than the others to be fair because he existed in obsolete versions of this mode.


Now that I gave proper feedback, I am excited for the first release and to be able to help with future testing in some way. In the meantime, maybe I should try learning about Doom's coding. >.>
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Magnet Dood on August 22, 2013, 04:39:41 AM
If you'd like an in-depth review of this mod's plethora of bosses, then I shall provide.

The problem I find with them is that every single one (give or take 2 or 3) have a slash attack and a "super cool" bonus attached. I really think that the bosses should all play completely differently instead of using the same old copypasta for each boss.

I would honestly not like Saxton Hale to leave. He's a fairly basic boss who actually SHOULD have the regular super melee attack. I'd honestly just think of something different for his rage (maybe he can get into a kangaroo suit or something since's he's Australian and get higher jumping, increased speed and a Comet Punch like attack, which is faster to fire but deals less damage).

What I would not mind leaving is the name Saxton Hale. Seriously, he's one guy in a mod of about 20. Just call it Boss Brawl or something- anything is better than Saxton Hale.

Cave Johnson... I honestly love Cave, but he is weak as all hell. The lemons have a ridiculously large cooldown and are basically a Napalm Bomb clone. It's nearly impossible to kill a guy one-on-one unless you tank damage and pull out the rage. I'd honestly make it so that his shots travel in a straight line but are effected by gravity. This would still give him range while not making him lob around easily avoidable projectiles all while he's hoping someone's dumb enough to hit them.

Ra Thor is a pretty bad boss with a novel idea that's executed rather poorly. As cool as the hypnosis is, what does it really accomplish other than making mini-bosses with literally the same attack with less damage? A cooler idea would be to lock them with the weapon they had when hypnotized with unlimited ammo, giving a bit of strategy to it. One hypnotized with Spark Shock would be devestatingly effective. Of course, should the weapon be ridiculously overpowered or just plain dumb, the fist can be subbed in.

Ninja Spy is a fairly neat boss. He's another slash guy, but the addition of lives makes for some interesting gameplay. His invisibilty thing is a cool idea, and ultimately he makes it work. I would like for him to do ninja things (smoke bombs), but as is, he's pretty good.

Ghost of Starman will be the last I'll go into tonight. Again, pretty damn boring. GoS didn't even have a melee attack in Earthbound- he attacked with beefed up PK attacks, and his giant explosion was definitely devastating. Perhaps the entire battle could be on a timer, and if time runs out, a massive explosion kills all survivors left, much like GoS's strongest attack. Otherwise, he could recieve that as a rage, which sends an explosion at a large radius but also sacrifices his health. He should recieve a smaller version of his current rage as his main weapon.

That's all for now.

Oh, and old ones. PO'd Roll and NeoDS deserve their current spots. It wasn't so much that fighting Roll was a pain; the idea as a whole was just really stupid.

And NeoDS was just removed because he acted like a pissballtoid
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Hallan Parva on August 22, 2013, 06:07:01 AM
okay

(click to show/hide)
These take a while to write up so I'm pausing here at the halfway point.
The other six bosses are coming up... right after these commercial messages.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Rozark on August 22, 2013, 07:16:52 AM
Quote from: "Zomo.exe"
Morshu: I'll try not to be too bias (or however it's spelled) here. My solution to his overpowered primary would be to tone it down some and come up with a new rage, one that preferably doesn't achieve more than making everyone just get the fuck out of there. The guy may have 16 seconds worth of voice acting, but something can be done I hope.

Morshu's primary isn't really overpowered, you just NEED TO GET OUT OF THE WAY AND NOT CLUSTER UP.
Also, the current rage is useful because you just said it: people get the fuck out of there. It fixes his weakpoint which is pretty damn creative if I do say so myself.

Also stop judging his rage and pretty much ANYTHING until the adjustments I've said literally 16 times now come in. He already has changes coming; stop suggesting, at least until the changes are already in THEN suggest after that.
Saying that that many times is really starting to get annoying
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Zomo.exe on August 22, 2013, 08:34:27 AM
Oh, I must have missed the memo about Morshu being changed with the 1st release; perhaps I was way too harsh with a neutral opinion even though he is one of my favorite bosses to play as. After all, they're only as good as one can play them...

In either case, I'll wait til it's actually released and come back here to post real insight on all bosses if needed because of the fact that one cannot judge what one has not seen or experienced. I guess I'm just irked a bit that Morshu's rage very rarely gets a kill, if that.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Ceridran on August 22, 2013, 01:58:08 PM
I'l try.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on August 22, 2013, 07:42:44 PM
Now, going to a general analysis using someone's template:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on August 23, 2013, 12:52:40 AM
I feel obliged to toss my two cents into the ring.  Assume that if I don't mention it, I feel I have nothing to say about it.

Saxton Hale
It is my belief that every Boss Battles mod like this should have a simplified, down-to-earth sort of Boss to it, not necessarily as their mascot, but some form of pick-up-and-play sort of character.  Saxton Hale fits this archetype rather nicely.  I think he gets too much of a bad rap for being the template for everyone else's lame, unoriginal boss (With Cave Johnsons here and there).  I think we should keep him—for the time being, anyway.
Ghost of Starman, Christian Brutal Sniper, and Ninja Spy
And these are the copycats.  OHKO melees all around and an Astro Crush clone, an OHKO range, and a lame smoke bomb as their rages.  In TF2 the differences were actually somewhat important.  Here it makes for simplistic, boring clone-based gameplay.  Unless they're rebuilt from the ground up, I say replace them.  The latter would probably be easier.
Ra Thor
All I really have to say is an echo of what was already said.  The hypnotism needs work if he's going to keep it at all.  Other than that, my only comment is, perhaps we should have more Mega Man hales.
Slenderman
A lot of the time I don't even want to fight this guy when he appears.  The fight goes on for so long and it's not worth running away from him or shooting him.  Might be a good idea to give Slender—and timer bosses like him in general—the axe.
Quote and Curly
Even though they don't stand up to my original idea for them (Which, looking back on it, really wasn't so great), I am quite pleased with these bosses.  As it stands they're probably one of my favorite bosses in the mod.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 23, 2013, 01:09:33 AM
All right, I will now say at this point that we are past the halfway mark as far as work for the first official release. We still have a lot of testing and editing to do, but at least we are at the point where we can start reworking the bosses. Keep the opinions coming, as I will consider every opinion when it's time to decide on each boss. I do want to mention something for those that are considering making hales: I would hold off on doing so until the first release, since the hale template is going to change a bit, since the rage system will be getting revised, among perhaps some other little details.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Magnet Dood on August 23, 2013, 02:05:47 AM
Time to put in five more. Just so you know, I would like GoS to stay in, because he's one of the few bosses I enjoy a lot.

Slenderman: I don't know about you guys, but I honestly do like Slender. He's easily one of the best jump-scare guys out of the lot. I'd just fix his invisibility thing- why not use Yurei's kind of invisibility from GvH NES? Also, his no jump thing where he just moved up to wherever was a much better idea than giving him a super jump. Makes you feel like you really can't hide. I'd prefer to have him stay.

Robo Christian Brutal Sniper: This guy is a pain to play as. I feel like his sword never hits anything and you basically HAVE to rely on the sniper shots, which requires you to take a million points of damage to use a one-minute rage. He's just not worth keeping- there's enough TF2 bosses already.

Seedlier and Seeman: I've got a soft spot for the See duo. I do like it when they run around, shouting "See" everywhere while totally annihilating everyone who dares stand in their path. They're also copy-pastes of regular old Saxton, but since it's a duo battle it makes it more enjoyable as a whole. Thus, these guys should stay- I'd only prefer if their rages were changed. As it stands, they're way too good to warrant both being available.

AND CHANGE THEM BACK TO GEMINI MEN ARGLE BLARGLE

Gilgamesh: Here's the boss that 45% of the community would most likely name the worst to fight against, only because of his bodacious Rocket Punch. Unfortunately, taking that away takes away his only chance at killing anyone who isn't standing right next to him. The guy can take hits like a bulletproof wall, but he's slow as all hell and can barely attack for his life. Last Stand was novel, but futile, approach to fixing this problem. I'd honestly prefer for him to stay as is, if he's to stay in at all. Currently, he's a paradox- he's literally the worst boss of the bunch with the most broken rage still in the game (looking at you, POR)

Finally, Morshu: I have to love Morshu as much as it might piss Gizmo off. He's one of two (technically three) bosses that doesn't copy the regular old formula and thankfully branches out. As welcoming as it is, it doesn't mean he can get off with being an absolute clone of KY's Bomb Man class with slower firing rate and atomic bombs (at least you added the super jump that Lad desired so much). Why the idea to add Lamp Oil and Rope to his moveset was never added astounds me. I'd really like to keep him in, but he needs a serious retool to be any good.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: Isaac940 on August 23, 2013, 03:35:41 AM
I know I don't play this that much anymore, but if you're looking for opinions or ideas, I have a few crazy ones.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (2 Projects Underway)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 26, 2013, 05:09:57 AM
Today I have pretty much finished just one, but big feature, of Endless Attack. I have successfully added the bosses from Mission Mode in Endless Attack, and they behave just like they were in Mission Mode, minus the small sacrifice of them dropping down during the intro. This was to resolve a glitch with the bosses that occurred after I placed in scripts to have the battle finish if the challenger dies to the boss (so that another player can't come in and finish off a weakened boss easily). I might also mention that Toad Man...shows off his strength when he activates his rage. You will see what I mean when you come in and fight him.

The rest of the mode that I am going to do will take some time, and in 10 hours I will be back in college, so activity will be lessened just a little bit. I know you guys will enjoy the mode when it is ready, though. I am putting lots of hours into this, and I spent a few days already just making sure the bosses and player classes worked!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Balrog on September 03, 2013, 08:46:25 PM
@Saxton Hale: You need a dev team. I want on the dev team. (The main reason I haven't been working on my end is because I've been waiting to see what you've been doing. Also kinda hoped that Hale would die off for a bit without updates and people could actually play some vanilla for once.)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Ceridran on September 03, 2013, 09:45:43 PM
You really should have a trustworthy dev team. Smash (not Smashbro) and Balrog. make neat firsties.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 04, 2013, 03:52:54 AM
I add anyone that contacts me with their Skype name. Even then, the Skype chat hasn't been 100% successful. There are just some things I am unable to do, and I think I need to set some deadlines in order for the work to get done. Worse yet, I'm considering a public beta instead of a private beta since some of these people are not on or active in the chat some of the time.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: ThatPerson on September 04, 2013, 05:16:25 AM
I hate to be that "ignorant person" but...
What's the difference between OP's Saxton Hale mod and Classes Saxton. I've only been introduced to this a few days ago and i only played the classes one so...better ask than wonder.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on September 04, 2013, 05:22:16 AM
Quote from: "ThatPerson"
I hate to be that "ignorant person" but...
What's the difference between OP's Saxton Hale mod and Classes Saxton. I've only been introduced to this a few days ago and i only played the classes one so...better ask than wonder.
Silversin was originally the developer of this version and, at some point, he stopped updating the "classes version" to speed up the main one (which soon Balrog and Tails took over).
Personally, classes are bad for any LMS-oriented mode (due to balance issues in terms of damage imput and dextery) and overrated (Come on! How often do you NOT see Classes "something" on top of the list?!).
I guess they are still looking for a way to forbid classes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: ThatPerson on September 04, 2013, 01:35:41 PM
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
Quote from: "ThatPerson"
I hate to be that "ignorant person" but...
What's the difference between OP's Saxton Hale mod and Classes Saxton. I've only been introduced to this a few days ago and i only played the classes one so...better ask than wonder.
Silversin was originally the developer of this version and, at some point, he stopped updating the "classes version" to speed up the main one (which soon Balrog and Tails took over).
Personally, classes are bad for any LMS-oriented mode (due to balance issues in terms of damage imput and dextery) and overrated (Come on! How often do you NOT see Classes "something" on top of the list?!).
I guess they are still looking for a way to forbid classes.
Saxton Hale classes is the only "classes something" i played and yeah its always on top of the list lately. Would like to try the non-classes one at some point.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Ivory on September 05, 2013, 05:37:30 AM
TailsMK4 requested this thread to be closed until he returns.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 02, 2013, 01:15:51 PM
The thread is unlocked now, since a public beta of Saxton Hale Rebirth is very close. Will it be tomorrow, or perhaps Friday? It's yet to be seen, but it is so close right now that I am anxious to get this thing released soon, but not without testing it one more time in a small group.

A topic I wanted to bring up is, I know some people have been wanting a Boss themed mod. Although the base of this mod is Saxton Hale based, I feel this is a chance to broaden the theme to more than just Saxton Hale. So, unless you guys prefer to keep the name Saxton Hale Rebirth, I would like to rename the project to something more like MM8BDM Boss Battles or something along those lines. Lego's Saxton Hale a while back had Saxton Hale elements in there as well, but had mainly Mega Man themed bosses. I am pushing for more of those themed bosses very soon, so I think this is a time to try to make the mod more appealing to MM8BDM in general.

What should be the new name of the mod? Is there something, perhaps, that could make this not just "another Saxton Hale mod"? I want this mod to have a positive impact on the community.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Ceridran on October 02, 2013, 01:26:45 PM
Please rename it. We can leave the name Saxton Hale to where it performs best: TF2. I like TF2, but we don't have to shove everything from it into this.

MM8BDM Boss Battles sounds nice.

Also, Slenderman is barely game related by origins.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: MusashiAA on October 02, 2013, 01:42:23 PM
Yes, please do rename this. But MM8BDM Boss Battles sounds a little too simple and unoriginal.

How about All-Star Superboss Mode? Or just Superboss Mode?

How about Super Robot Master Attack?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Ceridran on October 02, 2013, 05:08:00 PM
"Stage Boss"
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Russel on October 02, 2013, 07:17:06 PM
Heh...I kind of lost interest in this type of thing while ago. The little interest I did have most recently was while I was working on Under Siege, which has also stopped because minions are dumb.

Either way, the name that was settled for mine, should I ever go back to it was Monsteropolis Mash. TGOT wanted to make a pun based on the song name Monster Mash and I liked how it sounded...best of all it didn't involve the word "boss" in it, which was something I couldn't avoid with whatever name I could come up with.

I still want to make it...it's just a matter of motivation.

Also, I wish you the best of luck with your mod and I anticipate a higher quality product.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Balrog on October 02, 2013, 07:41:40 PM
404: Mod Not Found.

While I appreciate what you're doing here, I think that bringing "true" Saxton Hale to the forefront again is going to lead to the master server once again being flooded with nothing but. (And that's still happening right now, to an extent, even though balrogSH has been sent to a leper colony to die in agony.)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: Linnie on October 03, 2013, 04:41:07 AM
I vote to keep it Saxton Hale Rebirth.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: MrL1193 on October 03, 2013, 06:44:56 AM
"Saxton Hale Rebirth" should be fine for now. Unless you've already removed most of the TF2 bosses and started purging the mod of TF2 influence, I think it's a bit early to be trying to drop the "Saxton Hale" moniker. It would be a bit strange to name the mod something like "MM8BDM Boss Battles" only to greet players with Saxton Hale, Christian Brutal Sniper, Ninja Spy, and other such bosses.

By the way, has anyone ever considered trying to change the boss selection process to give players some choice in the matter? I was imagining something like an opt-in system, where players who want to be the boss can add themselves to the group of players that the boss picker will select from. (And, of course, if no one volunteers, then the boss picker will just select someone at random, as usual.)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 03, 2013, 08:04:55 AM
Hmm, a player selector, interesting idea. I also had the idea of letting the server pick the next boss, but not the next player.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Updates on 2 Projects)
Post by: MusashiAA on October 03, 2013, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: "MrL1193"
"Saxton Hale Rebirth" should be fine for now. Unless you've already removed most of the TF2 bosses and started purging the mod of TF2 influence, I think it's a bit early to be trying to drop the "Saxton Hale" moniker. It would be a bit strange to name the mod something like "MM8BDM Boss Battles" only to greet players with Saxton Hale, Christian Brutal Sniper, Ninja Spy, and other such bosses.

This is a better idea, to be honest.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Source Code for 2 Projects Released)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 04, 2013, 09:39:32 PM
Hello guys, since I am no longer working on Hide and Seek and Mega Man Race, I have documented what coding I thought was unclear and have released them. Please read the NOTE entry for each one to see what is going on with each mod. I cannot say either one of them will work as is. If you wish to use these mods as a base for your own, feel free to do so.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f616hss44s9od ... 1cbeta.pk3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f616hss44s9odhc/MegaManHideandSeek-v1cbeta.pk3)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqmvn1jom92m3 ... -beta2.pk3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqmvn1jom92m3ch/MegaManRace-beta2.pk3)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 12, 2013, 06:34:29 AM
Going to do a double post since this is an important post: Rebirth Public Beta has been out for some time now and is very well received in the community. So, my focus now is to finish fixing up the bugs and gameplay changes. So, I got a few questions for everyone:

1. What is your overall opinion of the mod so far?

2. Any bugs or oddities to report?

3. Should we attempt to enable Classes compatibility in the future, or block it? I only wish for the main mod to be enjoyable as is, and only want Classes or extra weapons to just be a side server to the main action in the vanilla portion of the mod. In other words in terms of the Overhaul, the main Overhaul to be played more often than Classes Saxton Hale Overhaul.

4. Anything else you want added, removed, or just want to comment on? Hale requests are still closed for now, but will open fairly soon.


For bugs, this was the only known glitch releasing the public beta:

Sometimes the Megaman skin gets shown when hales take damage. This may or may not get fixed, since it is uncommon.

EDIT: Also, once version 1 is out, that's when this thread should be moved into the Projects forum so it is easier to find.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: MrL1193 on October 12, 2013, 11:54:31 AM
1. It adds some fresh ideas and general improvements, certainly. I still think the game balance needs tweaking, though. (Cave Johnson in particular seems a lot less threatening now that his lemons don't slow affected players, and the low health speed boost doesn't help him as much as other bosses.)

2. The only bugs I noticed were the occasional wrong music playing and Saxton Hale occasionally failing to change colors upon using his rage.

3. Oh boy, here we go again...My short answer is that classes shouldn't be blocked, obviously (or else I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of reviving the combo in the first place). To elaborate...

(click to show/hide)

4. Well, I already sent you my idea for an addition (a volunteer system for players who want to be the boss). I just hope something comes of it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on October 12, 2013, 01:36:36 PM
Quote from: "MrL1193"
First of all, let me just make one thing very clear: I do not want a mod war. Just recently, I had someone tell me that he felt obligated to stick around in my Rebalanced Class Saxton Hale server even though he wanted to leave. When I asked why, he said that he just didn't want Class SH to lose out to vanilla SH on the server list and give the vanilla SH players reason to gloat. I haven't tried to give anyone the idea that vanilla SH is evil or inferior or anything of the kind--apparently, they've developed this attitude themselves. Honestly, I hate this rivalry that has developed, and I don't want to encourage any further hostility--and adding a classes blocker most certainly would be quite hostile to the Classes fan base, I think.

Wait, someone thinks we would gloat? I don't think we'd gloat, I think we'd just be happy and say "Yay, people are playing Vanilla Saxton". Also, I think classes blocker wouldn't do much harm, it would simply make the classes fanbase either try Vanilla again or go to the Hotel server, however, I'm not sure I want a classes blocker as much as I thought I did, I may hate YD classes (with the exception of Bass, Drill, Knight, Metal, and Shade), but I think that maybe other class packs might be more fun with Saxton Hale than YD Classes were, mod developers just need to try a bit more, which I'd very much like to see. Though, I have no actual issue with classes blocker and it actually is a happy thought for me to see YD classes to never fight a hale again.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Linnie on October 12, 2013, 01:57:02 PM
1. So far I think this mod is great for a beta. Gilgamesh got more viable with his improved rage, Sniper got more viable with his improved rage, Morshu definitely got a huge improvement, and, even though I can't put my finger on it because the change isn't as noticeable as the other three, you did something to Ninja Spy that made him awesome to play as.

Captain Falcon's change was a definite nerf, however, and while I'm not sure because I was only playing for a couple hours, I think Starman got a little too good. Scrooge seemed about the same, along with Seeman and Seeldier and Saxton (seriously why did people say his rage changed? I didn't know any difference), and Quote and Curly crashed the game.

2. The big bug I have to report is that Quote and Curly crashed the game. They didn't literally kick players, but their round randomly and suddenly ended before I got to saw what they did. Other than that it's all things already mentioned.

3. Classes Support would be great. I love YD Classes, but I also heard you considering making TF2 classes for this mod, and I think that would also be cool (as long as you make a Demoknight class that acts like Chargeman).

4. Maybe make Falcon's controls a little more intuitive for an FPS? When I played as him, I did know anything about him needing combos and my ass got beat, hard.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on October 12, 2013, 04:39:23 PM
1 & 2. Can't say anything. Stopped playing MM8BDM for a while now for obvious reasons.

3. Block classes. Honestly, I want to see the whole classes thing out of commission, because it had overcome everything. There is an effective way to lock it out, as I let you know already...

4. If you EVER consider any sort of class add-on... Just don't make use of RM Classes. Make custom classes specifically for certain roles, classes you can easily balance out by yourself.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: ZeStopper on October 12, 2013, 06:16:33 PM
Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
4. If you EVER consider any sort of class add-on... Just don't make use of RM Classes. Make custom classes specifically for certain roles, classes you can easily balance out by yourself.

CoughSpecialClassesCough
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on October 12, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Captain Falcon's change was a definite nerf, however, and while I'm not sure because I was only playing for a couple hours, I think Starman got a little too good. Scrooge seemed about the same, along with Seeman and Seeldier and Saxton (seriously why did people say his rage changed? I didn't know any difference), and Quote and Curly crashed the game.

4. Maybe make Falcon's controls a little more intuitive for an FPS? When I played as him, I did know anything about him needing combos and my ass got beat, hard.

Don't worry, I'll try to look into it whenever I can. I never actually got to look at his coding and there was much I wanted to add. At least, visually, but some of the mechanics could use some tweaks as well.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 12, 2013, 07:17:54 PM
I do actually have plans to possibly form a team to try to adapt TF2's classes into the mod, especially since SilverSin's Classes came back into existence. I know it's not something I can do on my own, though, so if you know anyone that can either design classes or is familiar with the classes in TF2, it would be great if that person at least would consider helping out. That will not be a focus for version 1, though.

As for Falcon, the beta testing we had with small groups showed that Falcon was quite formidable. However, it seems he folds fairly quickly against a large group of people. We will take another look at Falcon's movement, cause he really is pretty special compared with the rest of the hales. We couldn't test this bit out since the most we ever had for a private beta test was 5 people. Just five.
Title: Quick question.
Post by: Hilman170499 on October 12, 2013, 11:24:20 PM
Just asking, what'll happen to vanilla Rebirth assuming a class compatibility is made? And, er..., this TF2 Classes thing for SH, is it gonna be a part of vanilla Rebirth or just another patch? -Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Korby on October 13, 2013, 12:53:40 AM
have you considered making your own classes for this mod to allow for specialized gameplay that can easily be balanced by you

that goes for all the saxton mods
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Superjustinbros on October 13, 2013, 02:03:35 AM
A few things I feel the need to comment on:

1. Why did you bring Gilgamesh back to Dissidia FF Consistency? As far as I remember a lot of players disliked that choice, since it was harder for Gil to score kills.

2. Why did you add a delay before the Sniper fires his arrows?

3. Have you seen my lemon sprites? The ones I sent you because the current ones looked like radioactive jello more than lemons.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: idiot9.0 on October 13, 2013, 07:14:50 AM
Playing with the public beta I have to say most if not all the changes made to the mod are a success, and it makes all the hales actually fun to fight and play. I haven't had a chance to play with every hale yet but I'm liking what I've tried.

I especially like the changes to Gilgamesh, specifically with the speed boost. That was one of the major pains with him that I saw needing improvement. Also the fact that his sword doesn't cover up a good portion of the screen anymore is a major bonus.

Morshu also got a needed change which I see as..... good? I certainly miss the main bomb attack but I like how the oil works as well. Also the rage is MUCH more useful.

The only other optional thing I'd want to see worked on are custom skins for the hales. I asked about this already in-game though so I won't go into detail.

But other than that I say good work so far. Waiting for that Version 1.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: andylucho on October 13, 2013, 05:39:31 PM
I love the hide and seek, especially the fact that with the time slow, the seeker can be unblinded during countdown.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Balrog on October 13, 2013, 09:26:16 PM
Bug 1: You made this, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Saxton Hale forevermore.
Bug 2: You removed my classes breaker, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Classes Saxton forevermore.
Bug 3: You gave Morshu Wire Adaptor instead of making a Thunder Claw clone. That's going to be useless in about half of the maps available for MM8BDM, specifically the ones with low ceilings and/or an abundance of skybox.

Overall, though, you seem to have done okay with this. Though "rewriting from scratch" is rather an exaggeration, considering that a quick look in SLADE shows that you iterated on BalrogSH.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Linnie on October 13, 2013, 09:50:11 PM
Quote from: "Balrog"
Bug 1: You made this, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Saxton Hale forevermore.
Bug 2: You removed my classes breaker, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Classes Saxton forevermore.
Bug 3: You gave Morshu Wire Adaptor instead of making a Thunder Claw clone. That's going to be useless in about half of the maps available for MM8BDM, specifically the ones with low ceilings and/or an abundance of skybox.

Overall, though, you seem to have done okay with this. Though "rewriting from scratch" is rather an exaggeration, considering that a quick look in SLADE shows that you iterated on BalrogSH.
Um, I'm not sure how to break this, but someone was able to edit your version to have classes, and they rebalanced the classes and the Hales to make it more classes oriented, so the breaker was only a temporary annoyance rather than a permanent one.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Balrog on October 13, 2013, 10:06:52 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
Um, I'm not sure how to break this, but someone was able to edit your version to have classes, and they rebalanced the classes and the Hales to make it more classes oriented, so the breaker was only a temporary annoyance rather than a permanent one.
True, but at least it was a speedbump on the way to nuking your play experience.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Linnie on October 13, 2013, 10:14:59 PM
I do have to say it is annoying when someone wants you to be unable to play what you like to play. I imagine the inverse of that, all the full servers being a mode you don't like to play, is equally annoying.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Balrog on October 13, 2013, 11:22:03 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
I do have to say it is annoying when someone wants you to be unable to play what you like to play. I imagine the inverse of that, all the full servers being a mode you don't like to play, is equally annoying.
That's not an inverse btw. That's more of an equivalence.

Anyway, I didn't expect the classes blocker to hold up for very long. If I did, I would have made the uncompiled ACS for it unavailable. It was intended to make hosting Classes Saxton (which is ludicrously unbalanced and liable to create 20-plus-minute stallfests) require thought and intent, as well as encouraging people to rebalance things while making workarounds. What the fact that it took something like a year for a workaround patch to be made (and that everyone simply switched to the earlier inferior versions) implies is left as an exercise for the reader.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on October 14, 2013, 02:06:40 AM
I noticed a small problem with Gilgamesh's POV: there's nothing to signal that he can attack again, which may leave one to wonder the interval between attacks. Maybe have him bring his hands back up after an attack and while ready for the next attack?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Superjustinbros on October 14, 2013, 04:51:46 AM
Okay, I stand corrected.

The four-weapon Dissidia Gilgamesh was given a much-needed buff, one I had not noticed until much later. I guess I thought the attacks were slow and didn't cover as much rage as I initially thought was how flat the four weapons looked when GIlgamesh attacked.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 14, 2013, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
2. Why did you add a delay before the Sniper fires his arrows?

3. Have you seen my lemon sprites? The ones I sent you because the current ones looked like radioactive jello more than lemons.

1. I think this was already discussed ingame, but I feel the delay actually helps the Sniper land hits with his arrows since it gives players time to readjust their aim. Besides, doesn't it take a second or two to load an arrow into the bow anyway?

3. I have seen the sprites, but I am still debating whether to change them or not. I've gotten two sets of lemon sprites so far, so yeah, I need to think about it some more.


Quote from: "Balrog"
Bug 1: You made this, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Saxton Hale forevermore.
Bug 2: You removed my classes breaker, thereby dooming the masterserver to be overrun by Classes Saxton forevermore.
Bug 3: You gave Morshu Wire Adaptor instead of making a Thunder Claw clone. That's going to be useless in about half of the maps available for MM8BDM, specifically the ones with low ceilings and/or an abundance of skybox.

Overall, though, you seem to have done okay with this. Though "rewriting from scratch" is rather an exaggeration, considering that a quick look in SLADE shows that you iterated on BalrogSH.


1. Wasn't my problem in the first place. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to help the situation out. I've got some ideas to revive some inactive mods...

2. It was decided not to include it so we can DISCUSS the possibility of Classes compatibility. MrL, who I guess technically "made" Classes Saxton possible, is being very supportive of this mod. He actually does prefer that the discussion of Classes Saxton just...not come up for now.

3. Most hales do not need to use Super Jump anyway in low ceilings. Morshu could actually make use of those ceilings.

4. Wasn't your mod BASED on Silversin's version?  :p  But in all seriousness, though, the gameplay of the mod has changed enough to make it stand out from other Saxton Hale games, and after version 1 is out (don't ask when), hale requests will return, which will mean we can start getting more Mega Man-themed bosses and such.


Quote from: "idiot9.0"
The only other optional thing I'd want to see worked on are custom skins for the hales. I asked about this already in-game though so I won't go into detail.

No one has volunteered to do another custom skin for quite some time. I could always ask FTX or Gizmo to help out again, but I don't want to force them to do another project. The hales have recolored skins so their color is MOSTLY consistent (there is that occasional moment with Saxton where his regular colors show even though he's still raged), which was a problem in the Overhaul.


Quote from: "Linnie"
I do have to say it is annoying when someone wants you to be unable to play what you like to play. I imagine the inverse of that, all the full servers being a mode you don't like to play, is equally annoying.

That's actually how I felt when people did mostly Classes in general. I've never really enjoyed the mode, and I got noticed by some people when all I wanted to do was to play as my favorite robot master (Geminiman). Classes don't involve skill in the same way vanilla games do, so I tend not to support Classes.


Quote from: "tsukiyomaru0"
I noticed a small problem with Gilgamesh's POV: there's nothing to signal that he can attack again, which may leave one to wonder the interval between attacks. Maybe have him bring his hands back up after an attack and while ready for the next attack?

While I do see what you are getting at, I label the issue as minor, since really you can attack again once the previous attack animation has finished.


I may as well bring this discussion up: while we are nowhere near ready to actually attempt any of these ideas, I am looking for people who could help with one or more of these things:

1. Hale class/weapon coding (to handle hale requests)
2. Class decorate (I am thinking about designing Classes for this mod to use, so people won't be so interested in combining YD's Classes with this again)
3. Beta Testers (We did not have NEARLY enough help last time. We were unable to test how these bosses were in even medium-sized groups)
4. Provide ideas for how to make this "not just another Saxton Hale mod". (The Saxton Hale protest thing going on was not my fault, but I want to avoid getting blamed for this recent...occurrence.) [The only thing that I will not take away are any of the bosses, since hours were put into them already]

Although I have some of my own ideas for 4, I will wait to see what you guys think.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Linnie on October 14, 2013, 10:31:27 PM
Just for clarification, when you say don't involve skill in the same way vanilla does, you mean that it's a different style of play, not that it doesn't require skill, right?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 14, 2013, 11:12:56 PM
I actually do mean, not requiring skill. I've seen the classes, and really, the only skill that comes into play is when using classes that are not that effective compared to others. Metalman and Crashman are not very good classes, while Quick Man and Skull Man are easy to use and are powerful.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: MusashiAA on October 14, 2013, 11:28:21 PM
Excuse me, but I must ask one thing for the future of this mod revival. If you're gonna accept superboss suggestions, there must be one rule that cannot be bypassed:

If it's not related to the Classic Mega Man series' canon, forget it.

EDIT: Let me elaborate.

Saxton Hale is out of place. You see it in the name, you see it in the characters, you see it in the gameplay. We can do just so much about the gameplay for the sake of differentiation and adaptation to MM8BDM, but it's really easy to integrate the superboss concept to MM8BDM just through simple theming. Change the name of the mod, and adapt the current superboss roster to Classic Mega Man characters.

We can help shape the future of the playerbase if we focus the superboss creation to just Classic Mega Man characters. Not only that, but we can then contemplate an integration of said playerbase to the actual MM8BDM playerbase, and then the Cutstuff community. Make things blend together by conditionating the playerbase input on the development of the modification.

The easiest way to do it is this: If the suggested superboss is not a Classic Mega Man series character, forget about it being added.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on October 14, 2013, 11:40:09 PM
Quote from: "MusashiAA"
Excuse me, but I must ask one thing for the future of this mod revival. If you're gonna accept superboss suggestions, there must be one rule that cannot be bypassed:

If it's not related to the Classic Mega Man series' canon, forget it.

EDIT: Let me elaborate.

Saxton Hale is out of place. You see it in the name, you see it in the characters, you see it in the gameplay. We can do just so much about the gameplay for the sake of differentiation and adaptation to MM8BDM, but it's really easy to integrate the superboss concept to MM8BDM just through simple theming. Change the name of the mod, and adapt the current superboss roster to Classic Mega Man characters.

We can help shape the future of the playerbase if we focus the superboss creation to just Classic Mega Man characters. Not only that, but we can then contemplate an integration of said playerbase to the actual MM8BDM playerbase, and then the Cutstuff community. Make things blend together by conditionating the playerbase input on the development of the modification.

The easiest way to do it is this: If the suggested superboss is not a Classic Mega Man series character, forget about it being added.

Aww, can we just make it Mega Man specific, instead of Mega Man Classic. I finished my Omega Zero hale and really want to see it get used.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on October 15, 2013, 12:20:04 AM
While I agree we need more Megaman bosses, I wouldn't rule out any non-Megaman ones. It just doesn't seem fair to put a huge limit on people's ideas.

If anything, we should have boss packs. For instance, if we're going to make this more Megaman based, then have the core be focused on Megaman bosses. All the other bosses will be put into separate, downloadable packs. The TF2 hales can get their own pack, while other boss suggestions can come in another.

Something like that. I think it would work out far better than just ruling out non-Megaman bosses entirely.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Linnie on October 15, 2013, 04:55:25 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I actually do mean, not requiring skill. I've seen the classes, and really, the only skill that comes into play is when using classes that are not that effective compared to others. Metalman and Crashman are not very good classes, while Quick Man and Skull Man are easy to use and are powerful.
>_>
<_<
>___________>

Besides said classes getting nerfed in rebalance, you don' really mean that, right? Yeah, there are babby classes that anyone can use, but if you play random you do get classes that require skill.

Which is why I wish that mod that forced random on players was finished.



As to the current topic, I do agree that we should have some Megaman Hales, like Kung-Fu Cutman, but they shouldn't be just cookie cutter Hales like Lego's Wily/Auto/bird. Things like having Zero be a class works, as well as Kung-Fu Cutman, we just need them to have a bit more than, "oh this is a boss from Megaman."

Plus we did used to have a Megaman Hale, her name was PO'd Roll and people voted her off because of a simple error that could've been fixed that made her OP.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on October 15, 2013, 05:10:48 AM
I honestly never did like the idea of Roll being a boss in the first place. If we're going to have a Megaman boss, I'd much rather it be someone who would make sense to go up against, and someone who it'd make sense to be able to withstand a lot of damage. Out of all the robot masters and fortress bosses that could've been chosen, why Roll?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on October 15, 2013, 05:35:44 AM
By the way, found a TERRIBLE issue.

Code: [Select]
actor SaxtonFist
{
PROJECTILE
+RIPPER
Radius 10
Height 25
scale 2.5
damage (100)
damagetype "Instagib"
speed 40
States
{
Spawn:
SXP1 ABC 1
stop
}
}

Can't see it? I'll narrow it down...
Code: [Select]
Height 25
Do you have any idea on how WRONG is that?  Nope? Well, let me explain:
Projectiles are created at a certain heigh within the user, way above Z=0 (something around Z=20, I think).
Supposing the playeractor is 24 units tall, this creates a death zone from Z=20 to Z=45!

Don't know what this mean? Even if the projectile seemingly CAN'T hit you, it WILL hit just because said projectile is VERY tall and is already spawned high enough, so you don't even need to aim up to hit someone jumping over you! This is a problem, because sometimes you can only jump over any melee hale to get away from them while effectively using the weapon you have (like Star Crash).

So, why not set height to something lower like 10?

On others... I really dislike the Rocket Punch for Gilgamesh, Moon Party for Scrooge, Curly's Clone Army and Ra Thor in general. Let's individually comment on them:
* Rocket Punch is way much an unoriginal technique for Gilgamesh, plus it is too easy to get a cheap shot on everyone. It's wind up is very quick and, by the moment you hear him prepare, it is too late: he has hit you IN THE FACE. I propose you give him Enkidu (summons Enkidu, which should be a flying monster with dangerous melee that can also heal Gilgamesh if not killed fast enough. Thankfully, should not jave a lot of HP, only 1/5 of Gilga's max HP.)
* Moon Party is still a VERY wide area denial. For a character with a JUMP ATTACK as a mini rage, this is an absurd rage.
* Clone Army... Just don't. It is almost as bad as Moon Party, except the hale doesn't become 100% Vulnerable while using it, which allows it for cheap wins by suddenly spawning one in their face!
* Ra Thor. Nuff said. He can do a moving melee of death, has pretty much "two rages" and both are extremely unfair. Proposal? 1. Make it so his attack either spawns the black hole in front of him OR fires a short-range slow-moving lethal black hole, 2. Either his rage should be hypno OR Hyper Dash, not both because it can be absurdly broken if, let's say, you hypno nearly everyone and then dash into the last few, 3. If going for something new... Think of Phaselock used by Maya the Siren in Borderlands 2.

Now, let's see other minor issues:
* Stunlocking seems to be troubling certain bosses. But so far I have only seen this happen when either Spark Shock or Flash Bomb is given by the LMS randomizer.
* Quote is said to be underpowered in contrast to Curly's OPness. So why not do this: Give Nemesis to one and Blade to another, and have those weapon "gain levels" (or "lose levels", in the case of Nemesis) based on health or rage uses (which would lower level for Nemesis or increase level for Blade). Of course, Nemesis duck should be made as a force to be reckoned, turning it into a "lethal joke projectile".
* Sniper could REALLY use something like a counter for his arrows, whether on his side only or visible for everyone. Because not everyone likes counting your bullets.
* Maybe have Falcon Punch be a "main attack modifier" that allows Craptain Falcon to deliver exploding punches? BECAUSE MR TORGUE SAYS SO!

If an idea of a Megaman-themed boss is needed... How about Raging Gutsliath?

EDIT: Ra Thor is a peanut
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on October 15, 2013, 06:28:08 AM
I don't really have a problem with Ra Thor the way he is now. It's not THAT easy to get hypnotized by him. And his rage is one of the easier ones to avoid. If you're quick enough, you can actually block him off with Item 1.
His black hole is pretty deadly though; deadlier than before at that, since I think it multi-hits. But I think that a simple damage nerf would help with that.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Hallan Parva on October 15, 2013, 09:03:54 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I do actually have plans to possibly form a team to try to adapt TF2's classes into the mod, especially since SilverSin's Classes came back into existence. I know it's not something I can do on my own, though, so if you know anyone that can either design classes or is familiar with the classes in TF2, it would be great if that person at least would consider helping out.
funny story, actually


I was in a Skype call with people playing old VSH with the "special classes" thing on it, and we were all pretty much laughing our asses off with Speedster and "playable Eddie". The idea of making a spiritual successor was tossed around a few times, and when someone had the idea of giving them abilities from Pokemon all hell broke loose. A rapid-fire class with Speed Boost, gradually getting faster over time? A damage soaker with Rough Skin, dealing revenge damage whenever they get hurt? An item factory (a la Supporter) with Magic Guard, ignoring the effects of things like Slow, Stun, and Cave Johnson's afterburn effect? It would be hilariously amazing to say the least.

so yeah I'd be cool with it
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Superjustinbros on October 18, 2013, 10:17:53 PM
Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
Aww, can we just make it Mega Man specific, instead of Mega Man Classic. I finished my Omega Zero hale and really want to see it get used.

Speaking of, I also want to see my Salarymen tri-hale and the Pac-Man Ghosts quad-hale to come into play one day, but with that out of the way I think the rule could be changed to just hales related to Mega Man, MMX and possibly the other Mega Man sub-series as well. One thing I did originally consider was making hales based on the more disliked Robot Masters in the MM fandom outside of 8BDM's community, including Spring Man, Plant Man, and all the others on Screwattack's infamous Top 10 Worst Robot Masters list going on revenge.

Bottom line, the majority of the Hales need to be Mega-Man related, we could still keep the other meme-pandering hales as long as they don't overtake the wad like they do now.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on October 18, 2013, 10:24:12 PM
That sounds like a good idea. And I've been thinking, I'm not sure if the rage is functional for my hale since I haven't exactly tested it, so I plan to post what I've worked on so far once requests are up. Also, I obviously won't be able to make your Salaryman hales if it's decided to be a Mega Man only mod, though I don't think that'll happen.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Joseph Collins on January 06, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
I'm not sure if this is the best place to mention this, but the current "Best-Ever!" server for Endless Attack is broken.  Someone didn't set the map rotation correctly and it's physically impossible to get back to the ENDATCK map from MM1CUT.

That said, it might be a good idea to implement a "resetgame" and "hub" command to the mode which supercedes the map rotation, in the event someone doesn't set it right or if people otherwise want to restart the score counter.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Dr. Crasger on January 06, 2014, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: "Joseph Collins"
I'm not sure if this is the best place to mention this, but the current "Best-Ever!" server for Endless Attack is broken.

This is not the best place to mention this at all.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Joseph Collins on January 06, 2014, 07:15:49 PM
I really have no idea who runs what server half the time and it doesn't seem like something worth bringing to the attention of Best-Ever! directly, since they just host the servers, not configure them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on January 06, 2014, 07:29:56 PM
This actually is the right place to post such stuff since this is where you would find the wad for Endless Attack.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Dr. Crasger on January 07, 2014, 10:37:35 PM
But it was about the server's map rotation. Who was the admin of that server anyway?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Joseph Collins on January 08, 2014, 07:58:34 AM
Haven't a clue, Crasger.  The MotD is the default "Best-Ever!" message with only the global ServOPs listed. (I don't think you can change this...?)  Whoever set this particular server up did some with the least amount of work possible for a Best-Ever! server.  And since it's an automated process (http://www.best-ever.org/) literally anyone can do, well...  I can understand how it could happen.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Dr. Crasger on January 08, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: "Joseph Collins"
The MotD is the default "Best-Ever!" message with only the global ServOPs listed. (I don't think you can change this...?) .

Oh but you can. So they just didn't bother I guess.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on January 18, 2014, 11:35:19 PM
Just thought I'd mention that activity for Rebirth is emerging again. Unsure exactly what will happen out of this, but perhaps the break is over to resume this. Not ruling out possibly getting other hales to appear in Rebirth, but since the coding for Rebirth makes it easier to add new features than mods closer to that of Balrog's, we'll be resuming Rebirth instead of doing work on Hyper or ++. I won't go into any other details at this time, since we literally have been discussing since the past hour or so at the time of this post.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Superjustinbros on January 19, 2014, 08:35:48 PM
If only morphed Classes were able to have real-time weapon switching, then we could switch between two different playstyles for each Hale, the original/++, and Rebirth.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on January 23, 2014, 06:14:13 PM
So at this point I am pretty much back in full force as far as development of Rebirth. So, I wanted to get some discussion going as far as what's next for Rebirth. I won't reveal all of the changes, but here are a few:

1. A damage counter has been made, though it is causing me a lot of problems. Sometimes it does not update when you damage the hale, other times it updates on your side even if you didn't deal damage, and thus shows all of the damage the hale has taken. I have decided to let Jax look into this. I personally have given this thing like 5 tries trying to fix it. I may or may not keep this.

2. I have revamped the HUD display so it shows less information, and I have added rage warnings back in, since I am able to do it in one script. I know you guys preferred to have the rage warnings, so they are back in.

3. I fixed a couple other things. What I have sometimes seen done on purpose was someone spectating after the match was finished in order to force another match on the same map. That is no longer possible in Rebirth. Also, a little while ago, someone reported that one of the obituaries for Ra Thor's Rage did not show who was Ra Thor. That has also been fixed.

4. We have decided to give the last survivor a Strength Rune instead of Spread. Some weapons are difficult to counter when you have to deal with three of them, and if they all land, it's like the last survivor had his/her damage tripled. This seemed to be a bit too much for the hale, so the survivor will have a constant double damage instead.


Now, for possible changes or ideas:

1. I know this was discussed before, but since Jax recently mentioned changing the game mode to TLMS, what are your thoughts if this change is going to be made?

2. It's common knowledge now that Hyper Saxton and ++ are merging. I have considered myself adding a few of ++'s hales to Rebirth. What hales/features should be merged in from ++, or should we even bring anything from Hyper/++ into Rebirth at all?

3. Just wanted to remind people that hale requests will be opened back up sometime after Rebirth v1a. With Saxton Hale activity happening again, I'm sure some of you have been looking for ways to get your ideas in. I have some guidelines in mind, but if any of you want to share ideas regarding the quality of hales and how they should be submitted, feel free to do so.

4. Any other possible ideas you want to see implemented? Rebirth is meant to be a revamp of Saxton Hale, so if there's anything that would help set the mod apart from other Saxton Hale mods, we will consider them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Hunter Frags on January 23, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
I've actually did a little to Otaku's Sonic hale and made a (kinda poor) attempt at improving Omega Zero. Maybe with a better HUD and more work to Omega and/or making Sonic's rage less OP and whatever else, would either of them work?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on January 23, 2014, 11:08:47 PM
As for features that could make it different...How about people getting an item to use the next round if they do well enough? This idea isn't completely original as I saw it in Super Demon, but it's still something I've never seen in Saxton Hale before. The items could be stuff like extra health that passed the maximum capacity, a special weapon, and other little goodies that increase their chances of surviving.

Also, I don't really care what happens to my melee bosses at this point, but I hope my ranged ones might see the light of more played versions of Saxton Hale.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: MrL1193 on January 24, 2014, 09:50:17 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
1. I know this was discussed before, but since Jax recently mentioned changing the game mode to TLMS, what are your thoughts if this change is going to be made?
Sounds good. Maybe we can have homing weapons that actually target the boss now.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
2. It's common knowledge now that Hyper Saxton and ++ are merging. I have considered myself adding a few of ++'s hales to Rebirth. What hales/features should be merged in from ++, or should we even bring anything from Hyper/++ into Rebirth at all?
I'm not very familiar with Hyper apart from the fact that it has a Hitler hale that I reeeeeeally don't like as a character idea. As for ++, here are my thoughts on each of the added bosses:

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
4. Any other possible ideas you want to see implemented? Rebirth is meant to be a revamp of Saxton Hale, so if there's anything that would help set the mod apart from other Saxton Hale mods, we will consider them.
There are a couple things that I've mentioned in server chats before that I'd like to elaborate on a bit.

The first thing is the rage system. Rebirth switched it from being based on number of hits to being based on damage. However, I prefer the old system because I feel that it creates a better balance among your various weapons, encouraging you to use the one appropriate to the situation. With a per-hit rage system, the usefulness of a weapon that deals out a lot of low-damage hits (good for rebuffing the boss's approach) is counterbalanced by the amount of rage it builds, while weapons that deal a lot of damage per hit (which tend to have a lower rate of fire, making them more unwieldy) are good for keeping the boss's rage low. However, when you switch over to a purely damage-based system, that balance goes out the window, and there's no longer any reason to use, say, Thunder Bolt instead of Yamato Spear. As far as I can see, the damage tracking doesn't have to be linked to the boss's rage buildup, so I'm really hoping a rage system like the old one can be used instead.

The other issue is (of course) classes. I don't believe that adding classes of any kind to this mod will inevitably wreck the gameplay balance. (Remember, TF2 itself, the game from which the Saxton Hale mod originated, is class-based.) I've been told that Silversin's classes are being brought back in some form, which I think is a good place to start. I have a few ideas of my own regarding the classes that I've probably mentioned in server chats before:

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
As for features that could make it different...How about people getting an item to use the next round if they do well enough? This idea isn't completely original as I saw it in Super Demon, but it's still something I've never seen in Saxton Hale before. The items could be stuff like extra health that passed the maximum capacity, a special weapon, and other little goodies that increase their chances of surviving.
I would add a stipulation that if you do manage to earn such a bonus, the requirements in the following round for you to earn a bonus again should be more demanding to compensate for the fact that the bonus you've been given will help you to a certain extent. The bonus shouldn't create a runaway effect where whoever becomes MVP will be given such an advantage that it's difficult for the other players to catch up and become MVP themselves.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on February 09, 2014, 08:13:01 AM
I have a nice little surprise in store for those that like Deathmatch...I am making a kind of map that I am unaware if anyone else has done it before. It's a map that supports up to 64 players. The regular maps only support 32. The map...or at least the first version of it, is ready...but I am asking a few friends of mine to test it first. I am actually not too good of a mapper, but tonight's Bot Apoc session gave me the idea to make a map that'll work for 64 players. I at least want the map to at least be of decent quality.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Stardust on February 09, 2014, 03:40:36 PM
Be careful though, I heard that since all the maps were designed for 32 players, raising the amount of players by one bit could break some gamemodes and/or some scripts ; for instance, in SH actually, only the 32 first players can be selected. But anyway getting 32+ players in a server (except if bots) is nearly impossible :I
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 06, 2014, 04:46:58 AM
Hello guys, I know the wait has been very long...but I think we are just about close to the first official release of Saxton Hale Rebirth. I won't go over anything that's new just yet. Since it has been a while since people have played Rebirth, this will feel quite a bit different than the other SH mods. While I can't say when Rebirth will be out, since I don't know yet and I don't want to set expectations that I may not be able to make later, I am ready to start accepting more beta testers for the mod since the first public beta didn't go so well because the mod wasn't properly tested with a large group. Either post here in the thread or, if you have Skype, contact me on Skype instead. If you haven't added me before, please mention your Cutstuff username in the friend invitation so I know who you are. My Skype is thetetran.

After v1a, I will start accepting suggestions into the mod, especially the ones people have been wanting FOREVER for...hale requests. I will have some guidelines set up so you can properly organize your hale and you would know what my expectations are for new hales. Of course, there could also be music requests, volunteering to create a custom skin for a boss using a default skin, or even suggesting changes to bosses currently in the mod. Speaking of bosses, since people are used to the newer bosses found in Unholy and ++, this is the list of bosses in the mod:

Saxton Hale
Ghost of Starman V2
Cave Johnson
Christian Brutal Sniper
Ninja Spy
Scrooge McDuck
Morshu
Captain Falcon
Gilgamesh
Slenderman
Ra Thor
Seemen
Quote and Curly Brace


Pissed Off Roll and NeoDS will not return, though they CAN be readded back into the game, but they must get in line with the rest of the new hales. This also goes for any hales found in other SH mods. In other words, someone must make a request for them to be put back into the game.

That's all I will say at this time. Rebirth is finally close to be officially released. I appreciate those that were waiting a long time for this to be a reality. Hopefully you have some suggestions already in mind to make this even better. I want this to just not be another SH mod, but something more. Your ideas can help with that. So for now, if there's anyone that wants to help beta test, just contact me via PM, Skype, or post here, and I'll let you guys know when we might have some beta testing sessions.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: beta on March 06, 2014, 08:16:16 PM
So whats the new hales. Please don't say Dio, or Omega Zero!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: OtakuAlex on March 06, 2014, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: "beta"
So whats the new hales. Please don't say Dio, or Omega Zero!

There's no way for Omega Zero to come into this since even I think he's bland and never knew what to do to make him interesting. I think Dio's rage has aggravated enough people for him not to be added back in, though I actually like that boss.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Legtendga on March 08, 2014, 03:03:00 AM
Really, the Genesis Unit (and the Unknown Robot Master to a lesser extent) could be very interesting if they were Reworked a bit.
I'm very glad to see this mod resurface, though. Suprised to see Slenderman in the roster aswell.
Quite eager to see how it all works!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 10, 2014, 01:23:30 AM
Hello all, Rebirth will be released in a few hours. I will have the server up, though I will head to bed at that time as well, so I will not be around for the first hours of the mod. While the mod mainly is more stable than other mods, there are things that make Rebirth stand apart from the other SH mods. The bosses in Rebirth have sacrificed health for more speed, so matches will be shorter since it is easier for bosses to catch survivors, but survivors do not need to take out 5000 health out of a boss to finish it (unless the server is close to the 32 player limit). There are no new bosses for those that remember the boss count from the days of Balrog's mod, though of the hales, Morshu has received the most changes to his playstyle, and second most would probably go to Slenderman for focusing on a health-based timer instead of a regular timer and having a new, but temporary, rage. But perhaps the most important thing of all is...

...Now that Rebirth has finally been bugtested and declared stable, now it is the time for boss requests, music requests, etc., to be reopened. Ultimately I will have the final say on what gets added, but the time for the community to get their voices heard has finally arrived. Because I want good quality bosses to be added, I will have to set some expectations, but that's just means that the chances of your bosses being added are better if you can provide a design that is appealing, and even more so if you put some actual work into it! Before I go into more detail, here is the template for your boss: (* means it is optional)

Name:
Skin:
Other Graphics(*):
Theme:
Description:

Health(*):
Main Attack:
Super Jump:
Items(*):
Rage:

Name:
Skin: (This MUST be a custom skin colored to match the boss's actual appearance! I don't want to rely any more on FTX or other skin makers to make skins for bosses that need them) [If you cannot provide a custom skin, you must find someone that would make the skin for you, and it might be tricky for someone to do work if the boss may not get accepted...so try to arrange a skin before you even submit the boss]
Other Graphics: (These can be things like the HUD graphics, projectiles, etc) [Probably best to provide a link to a picture of your stuff instead of displaying them all]
Theme: (8-bit is preferred, but the original version is ok too)
Description: (This can be from backstory to general behavior to anything worth mentioning about the boss's design)

Health: (Remember that health scales in the mod, so just mention the health per player. For example, Gilgamesh's health increases by 200 per player) [if you do not have any idea, we will decide the health based on the rest of the boss info]
Main Attack: (Describe what the main attack of the boss is and give your best guess of how much damage it should do)
Super Jump: (Either the default super jump or describe a way this boss would reach someone hiding in a hole in Crash Man's stage, for example)
Items: (If your boss has any, describe what each item does, and what damage they do if any. If your boss doesn't have any, you can leave this out)
Rage: (This is your boss's super move, so be sure to be as creative as you can! Give as many details as you can about this super attack.)


As far as the likelihood of your boss being accepted, it depends on a few factors like general feedback from other community members, but the most important factor is the amount of effort you put into it. Think of it this way: the least amount of work we have to do to get your hale in (it is ok if your decorate is not perfect, but if you got a working decorate of your boss's class and weapons, then we can take it from there), and if the boss idea is pretty well-received, than the more likely it will be accepted. The people in our devteam will debate on the submitted hales and they will give their opinions on what bosses should be considered. If there's a boss that they support fairly well, that helps your boss's chances too. As far as what bosses may be considered more than others, that boils down to just a few categories, from highest priority to lowest, with ++'s boss names provided as examples:

From a Mega Man game (Genesis Unit) or Mega Man-themed (Unknown Robot Master)
From an obscere game (Dio Flash)
From a mainstream game or series (Remilia Scarlet)
Is generally memeish (Dawn of Moodkips)


Think you got a boss that would get added to Rebirth? Let's see your work. Have fun thinking up ideas everyone!


For other submissions, we lack a music theme for Saxton Hale, and Cave Johnson, Morshu, and the Seemen lack custom skins, so if good ideas/skins show up for them, they will be added right away. Other submissions will be considered over time. That's all for now, looking forward to your ideas!

EDIT: Silly me, forgot to add the Rage section to it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on March 10, 2014, 02:27:37 AM
...
It is here.
This day was spoken of in the prophecies.
But now it is here.
Luckily, I have come prepared.
...
What?
What do you mean the submission format has changed?
And custom skins are required coming in now?
...
That significantly limits my options coming in.
Well, let's see what I've got...


Okay, like always, I'm helplessly clueless on balance, so if something wouldn't be balanced, feel free to fix it up.

The Horseless Headless Horsemann
(click to show/hide)

Spiked Wall Man
(click to show/hide)

Copy Robot
(click to show/hide)

Invincible Airman
(click to show/hide)

Epic Pharaohman
(click to show/hide)

Hidden Shadowman
(click to show/hide)

Orange Juice/MusashiAA (SaviorSword HERO)
(click to show/hide)

Dark Bowser
(click to show/hide)

Airman James
(click to show/hide)

...Okay, I had more to start than I originally thought.

Coming Soon Maybe Possibly I Don't Know???  The only reason they're not here is because there are no custom skins for them...
- Gideon Graves
- Fluttershy
- Rubberfruit
- The Players
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth Public Beta is out!
Post by: Ceridran on March 10, 2014, 03:12:15 AM
Quote from: "CHAOS_FANTAZY"
Dark Bowser
(click to show/hide)

Yes, because Bowser himself can't already do all these things. No. Dark Bowser was already a lazy excuse for an antagonist, and I see no reason that this isn't actually Bowser.

But that aside, it looks different enough (non-rage wise, your boss idea is probably really bad if it's not different outside of it's rage attack.) to be acceptable. Infact, I really like it. It's just the fact that you made it Dark Bowser which is just dissapointing.

I'm in approval, but in my personal opinion, I'd much rather have it be Bowser the Koopa King himself.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: OtakuAlex on March 10, 2014, 09:26:41 AM
That's a lot of hale suggestions for a single post, I'm sure only a few will get accepted. Also, I'm sure user bosses won't generally be accepted.

On that note, I have but one boss suggestion that is mostly in my head due to my most recent anime/mythos obsession, but it's still good enough concept wise. (I think)

Technically, it's not really a game character, but it has made appearances in games such as Persona and Shin Megami Tensei franchises.

(click to show/hide)

This boss idea isn't suspicious at all on my part
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: beta on March 10, 2014, 09:45:19 AM
WE are going to party today!

Alright I have done some thinking in the THINKING DESK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I decided who should be brought back from Hyper and ++.

For hyper we have Omega Zero:
Skin: Zero with dark red color and pink eyes.
Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwRIO1hrtf4

Health: 1520 (gives 200 more health every two players)
Main attack: omega z saber.
Super jump: normal
Item: Z saber combo. A 5 hit combo that kills the player in just 5 hits.
Rage: Full charged buster.

Sonic:
Skin Sonic with something similar to actual boss in hyper saxton hale.
Theme http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4IruIxrO0

Health: 950 (adds 100 health every player)
Attack Spin dash.
Super jump: Normal with spring sound.
Item: Ring. Reduces 50% percent of the health the player already has.
Rage: Super Sonic.

And from ++ The unknown robot master.
Skin is same as the mod and same colors as the mod.
Theme is same as the mod too.

Health: 1020 (adds 150 health every player)
Attack: Same as the mod.
Super jump: Normal
Item: Same as mod but it will include metools Cyrorwon, spring head, hot head, shotman, and sniper armor.
Rage Same as mod.

Well there you go. That's the thinking desk. MOO!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 10, 2014, 08:17:05 PM
Been encountering some crashing problems, though I don't have much info to use to try to resolve the problem. I will look into this while v1b gets developed later, but if you guys have any information that might help, it would be great if you mentioned your theories. The server was just getting big and then it crashes. Not a good first impression, to say the least.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: MrL1193 on March 10, 2014, 08:46:02 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Been encountering some crashing problems, though I don't have much info to use to try to resolve the problem. I will look into this while v1b gets developed later, but if you guys have any information that might help, it would be great if you mentioned your theories. The server was just getting big and then it crashes. Not a good first impression, to say the least.
Did these crashes happen repeatedly or just once in a blue moon? If it's the latter, I suspect that Zandronum itself may be to blame. My Classes TLMS servers tend to crash every now and then as well, and I've heard that such crashes can occur even in vanilla servers. It's not enough to ruin the fun, but it is a nuisance and there are usually at least a couple players who just take the opportunity to quit instead of rejoining.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: fortegigasgospel on March 11, 2014, 12:25:38 AM
I imagine this idea will be rather unwelcome cause of what it is, but I thought it would be rather unique.
(click to show/hide)
Figure they can be worked with to make for a good tag team oriented hale which promotes the HALEs to work with each other to achieve the win instead of just being another slaughter who just happens to stumble into someone running from the other.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Superjustinbros on March 11, 2014, 01:08:00 AM
Alright, since I was told to post my suggestions for existing Hales here, I'll do so.
Keep in mind these are mostly going to be visual and audio quirks for the most part, just as a small heads-up.

General: Attack methods would work like these for standard melee hales, not taking into considering the range of the melees themselves:
*Fast punches/slashes with little to no recharge, deals the least damage, each hit takes away 9 or 10 HP
*Mid-strength punch/slash with medium recharge: deals 20 or 25 hit
*Slow Punch/Slash with long recharge, deals between 60 - 100 per hit, currently the standard

Ninja Spy would use Fast, CBS would use Medium, Saxton would use slow, just as a starting point.

CBS: His skin looks... disturbing to say the least. The way the glasses are designed are just IMO, pretty bleh.
If you want glasses with a bit more of style and don't look as goofy, you could use these types of glasses...
(http://i.imgur.com/wc6VEvb.png)
...instead of these.
(http://i.imgur.com/BZBpZMH.png)
His theme is also starting to bore me since I've been hearing it for the last eight months.

Ra Thor: Since Ra Thor is getting a massive re-working in a future version, I'll leave this here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/agdc25vq0q4ib ... or.mp3.zip (https://www.dropbox.com/s/agdc25vq0q4ib6j/ROLL-Chan_VS_Ra_Thor.mp3.zip)
His SAW dialogue would also have to be removed; he never spoke in SARM. It was Ra Moon, his master, doing all the speaking.

That's mostly the basic stuff. I'll have more in the future.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Ceridran on March 11, 2014, 01:10:27 AM
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
His theme is also starting to bore me since I've been hearing it for the last eight months.

Well, for as long as this boss stays in the game, he's going to have the song that has always been associated with him.

Have a good day, listening to a song about a millionaire's holiday.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: OtakuAlex on March 11, 2014, 01:31:12 AM
So, when will we get to know what ideas are accepted in? I'm pretty curious about which ones do. (hopefully I get mine accepted, but I'm not so sure =/ )
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Rozark on March 11, 2014, 02:19:25 AM
WELL NOW
YOURE ACCEPTING IDEAS AGAIN EH?
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

LITTLE MAC
Skin: I DONT KNOW
Other Graphics: Punching Stuff.
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: "Whole world is waiting for ya kid"
Mac needs better practice. Call in the punching bags! (You)

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: ITS A PUNCH. POW!
Super Jump: UPPERCUT- A normal super jump, but damages people while moving up
Items: CANDY BAR- Restores 10% health ONCE (Can remove if this is too stupid)
Rage: STAR PUNCH- Throws self forward really fast, punching/ohkoing all the people in the path. (Uncontrollable)

SAKUYA
Skin: Sakuya
Other Graphics: I DONT KNOWWWWWW
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: The video theme explains this pretty well

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Triple Knife Spread
Super Jump: NORMAL
Items: NONE
Rage: LUNA CLOCK LUNA DIAL- Hi. I'm less obnoxious Dio Flash rage. I only last for like 3-4 seconds and I don't ohko you. In all seriousness, It stops time everywhere for a set amount of time, allowing Sakuya to aimbot aim her knives
better than usual.

JOE INVASION
Skin: Hammer Joe (THE LEADER)
Other Graphics: Probably
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: Now that Teams are in place, this boss is similar to bot apoc. The normal person becomes the leader, commanding
the other joes to do his bidding. Probably 2 joes per person. I don't know, that's a value I probably shouldn't decide. The joes have standard health/armor/hey look at sniper joe class in classes v7-ahhhhhhhhhhhh for something on this. Overall this idea is very rough, and will probably need to be discussed/worked on quite abit.

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Throws his little wrecking ball thing.
Super Jump: NORMAL
Items: REINFORCEMENTS!- Summons a few extra joes to fight right beside him (Pretty much in events where the joes, BOTS, get stuck in corners, this'll help abit) Has 2-ish uses.
Rage: JOE BANNER- Teleports all remaining joes to fight alongside him. (Instead of wandering off being somewhere else)

CUTMAN RIDING THE FROSTMAN
Skin: Cutman riding Frostman
Other Graphics: Probably
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: With this idea I'm taking "Co-Op" bosses to the next level. One person is the Frostman, while another person is the Cutman. But wait, aren't they on top of each other? DOHOHO ROZARK WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Yes, BOTH PLAYERS ARE ONE ENTITY!
The thing is, FROSTMAN controls the model, allowing Cutman to MULTIATTACK behind him! (Or somewhere else)

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack (Frost): He likes Punching people
Main Attack2 (Cut): He likes throwing his scissor head.
Super Jump: NORMAL
Items (Frost): WOBBLE WOBBLE WOBBLE- Frostman has the item. He jumps up then back down, becoming a giant pow block and stunning those who don't jump from him.
Rage (Cut): GIDDY UP- Cutman has the Rage. He kicks the side of Frostman making the Frostman move faster for awhile

M. BISON
Skin: MMMMMMMMM Bison.
Other Graphics: PSYCHO PARTICLES (and other stuff)
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: People have wanted this for quite awhile. Make it happen. Also people, probably yourself or others, are going to change attacks/rage due to it "not being as accurate or how they want"

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Screw punching, just kick everything. (Seriously this should probably be different and not a standard punch/kick)
Super Jump: HEAD PRESS- Jumps in the air like a normal super jump. Hit again while in midair to thrust yourself downards, tapdancing
on any foe's head when you land.
Items: I DONT KNOWWWWWW
Rage: PSYCHO CRUSHER- Dashes forward multiple (3-4)times, destroying the people in his path. (Controllable)

MARIO KART
Skin: Mario Kart. It exists.
Other Graphics: Probably
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: LETSA GOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Shoots Green Koopa Shells that bounce around 2-3 times
Super Jump: Lakitu sorta lets him fly for abit.
Items: RANDOM ITEM GENERATOR!!!!!!! -gets one every 10 seconds or so-
-Red Shell: Homes in on a guy, does damage
-Triple Banana: TRIP ON THESEEEEE, spins the players around in confusion
-Fake Weapon Icon: Are you really going to fall for this, stuns
-Mushroom: IMMA CATCH YOU, gives a boost of speed
Rage: STARMAN- You literally get to run into people to kill them for a few seconds. Fun.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 11, 2014, 02:27:47 AM
Quote from: "MrL1193"
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Been encountering some crashing problems, though I don't have much info to use to try to resolve the problem. I will look into this while v1b gets developed later, but if you guys have any information that might help, it would be great if you mentioned your theories. The server was just getting big and then it crashes. Not a good first impression, to say the least.
Did these crashes happen repeatedly or just once in a blue moon? If it's the latter, I suspect that Zandronum itself may be to blame. My Classes TLMS servers tend to crash every now and then as well, and I've heard that such crashes can occur even in vanilla servers. It's not enough to ruin the fun, but it is a nuisance and there are usually at least a couple players who just take the opportunity to quit instead of rejoining.

I've had the crashing happen a total of 4 times now since the release. I think I have an idea of what might be causing it, but I really want to just take a break from working. I suppose I'll just put up a hotfix and see if it works...


Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
So, when will we get to know what ideas are accepted in? I'm pretty curious about which ones do. (hopefully I get mine accepted, but I'm not so sure =/ )

Not quite for some time. I'm taking a break from working since I had worked on v1a straight for the past week or so.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Hallan Parva on March 11, 2014, 02:34:20 AM
Hi, just stopping by to let you guys know that I finally got around to getting those Gilgamesh voice clips sent in. Expect to be hearing your favorite lines such as "ROCKET PUNCH!", "CHOP CHOP!" and "CRUMBLE TO DUST!" sometime in the next version or so.

I might also do something for this if I can ever stop being lazy and I'm not entering Korby's classes competitions.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: xColdxFusionx on March 11, 2014, 02:59:58 AM
OK, my biggest complaint is one that I've mentioned a few times already:

Scrooge's Rage is bad and should not exist.

A few proposals for its replacement:

Rage Idea 1: Mrs. Beakley
"Mrs. Beakley?! What are you doing here?!" Mrs. Beakley teleports in, then throws out three items, randomly selected from the list below. Each one can be picked up by either the big duck himself or by a player, and the effects vary.
(click to show/hide)

Rage Idea 2: M-Coin
Scrooge picks up an M-Coin, causing him to be enveloped in energy. Scrooge is invulnerable while this is active, and moves slightly faster than normal. In addition, his cane swings and pogo lose their "error margin," becoming instant kills regardless of whether or not the duck scores a direct hit.

Rage Idea 3: The Five Treasures
Scrooge reveals the Five Treasures, summoning the great Count Dracula Duck to aid him. Drake has health equal to about half his master's current amount, and a duration of about 30 seconds before he vanishes in a flash of bats. The Count summons bats that move erratically towards players, teleports around the arena, and swoops down on players who dare venture too close.

Rage Idea 4: Gizmoduck
Scrooge summons Fenton and his glorious Gizmoduck suit! After putting on the suit in a blur of energy, Gizmoduck unloads fast-moving missile payloads upon any man foolish enough to wander into his line of sight. These missiles have great target tracking and explode on impact, dealing enough damage to level a player if they make contact. ...There's also a very small chance that the suit will drop a slow-moving, non-homing nuke or a pair of boxers that float down harmlessly instead of the normal missile, but don't count on either happening with any frequency. Gizmoduck has about 25% of his employer's health at time of summoning and will automatically beam away after 30 seconds of service.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Linnie on March 11, 2014, 03:03:36 AM
My time has come.
(click to show/hide)


...wow, five posts have been made since I started writing this and one of them also involves Cutman. D:
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Ceridran on March 11, 2014, 03:22:10 AM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
SAKUYA
Skin: Sakuya
Other Graphics: I DONT KNOWWWWWW
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: The video theme explains this pretty well

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Triple Knife Spread
Super Jump: NORMAL
Items: NONE
Rage: LUNA CLOCK LUNA DIAL- Hi. I'm less obnoxious Dio Flash rage. I only last for like 3-4 seconds and I don't ohko you. In all seriousness, It stops time everywhere for a set amount of time, allowing Sakuya to aimbot aim her knives
better than usual.

I add my approval.. somewhat. It may still need a little something. I may pick this one up to revise the suggestion. While ruining it in the process. (read: not pick it up at all)

The mainfire should be easy to code, even I could do it. I even have an idea for it.. Except for managing attack speed, as I have no idea how to do that.

Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
M. BISON
Skin: MMMMMMMMM Bison.
Other Graphics: PSYCHO PARTICLES (and other stuff)
Theme:
(click to show/hide)
Description: People have wanted this for quite awhile. Make it happen. Also people, probably yourself or others, are going to change attacks/rage due to it "not being as accurate or how they want"

Health: DONT LET ME DO THIS
Main Attack: Screw punching, just kick everything. (Seriously this should probably be different and not a standard punch/kick)
Super Jump: HEAD PRESS- Jumps in the air like a normal super jump. Hit again while in midair to thrust yourself downards, tapdancing
on any foe's head when you land.
Items: I DONT KNOWWWWWW
Rage: PSYCHO CRUSHER- Dashes forward multiple (3-4)times, destroying the people in his path. (Controllable).

First off, your idea is the result of Captain Falcon x Ra Thor.

Second, there already exists a superior suggestion for M. Bison. Not because I made it, of course, but because everybody else seems to have been in favor of it.

Here it is.

Quote
Name: M. Bison

Skin: M.Bison (Llamahombre)
Color: Dark Red (Primary) Red (Secondary)

Attack:

EDITED IN: thanks smashbro:
Punch (slows target) --> Kick (short forward dash to catch target) --> Scissor (where all the damage is hiding)

If held down, Bison starts charging his right hand with Psycho Power, and then surrounds himself in Psycho Energy while flying spinning towards his opponents, similar to a torpedo. (Psycho Crusher) The damage is up to you, but it's a ripper. EDITED IN: thanks again smashbro: Bison is also not limited by gravity when using this, to help the lack of a super jump.

Item: Bison Warp

Bison warps forward the distance of 2 and a half players, facing torwards his previous location.

Rage: Final Psycho Crusher

Behaves essentially identically to the normal Psycho Crusher, but the hitbox is somewhat larger, the travel distance is longer, and the travel speed is faster. It is an OHKO, if not near OHKO. Oh, and you don't have to charge it, of course. EDITED IN: When this ends, Bison has his movement speed increased temporarily.

Bison is invincible for the duration of the rage.

Obituaries:

"[victim] was sent to the grave by M.Bison ([boss])"
"M.Bison's ([boss]) Psycho Power fed off of [victim]"

Health:

I can't balance this to save my life.

Music:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Rozark on March 11, 2014, 03:56:08 AM
Quote from: "Ceridran"
Second, there already exists a superior suggestion for M. Bison. Not because I made it, of course, but because everybody else seems to have been in favor of it.

Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Also people, probably yourself or others, are going to change attacks/rage due to it "not being as accurate or how they want"

Hey look I totally called it and you fell for my trap of "Putting the original suggestion in this thread"
Fine by me, just put a second approval on Bison then.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Ceridran on March 11, 2014, 04:23:48 AM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Quote from: "Ceridran"
Second, there already exists a superior suggestion for M. Bison. Not because I made it, of course, but because everybody else seems to have been in favor of it.

Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Also people, probably yourself or others, are going to change attacks/rage due to it "not being as accurate or how they want"

Hey look I totally called it and you fell for my trap of "Putting the original suggestion in this thread"
Fine by me, just put a second approval on Bison then.

I don't really care. I'm simply bringing up something that was of high approval and is already interesting to most.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 11, 2014, 07:58:51 PM
Rebirth Change Requests:

Cpt. Falcon:
What happened to Rebirthed Falcon? Maybe we could give that a second shot.

Ghost of StarMan V2:
He is way to fast! any atempt to evade him are futile ,even at base health! Why is this!?


Here are some ++ edits/boss return requests:
(click to show/hide)

I don't know weather or not this is Democratic or not, but here are my feelings about the suggestions before this post.

CHAOS_FANTAZY's suggestions.
(click to show/hide)

Beta's suggestions
(click to show/hide)


Rozark Kyouko's suggestions
(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)
I like 'most any of his suggestions on paper.


(click to show/hide)


That's that, then.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Rozark on March 11, 2014, 08:38:39 PM
Darn I couldn't resist.
Quote from: "Legtendga"
Rozark Kyouko's suggestions
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 11, 2014, 09:06:47 PM
I knew that you'd respond. I did not elaborate my thoughts hardly at all here, so I will so now:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Stardust on March 11, 2014, 09:21:37 PM
I mean no offense but,
could I get the recommendations about my hales on my topic,
because you know I'm the one responsible of their design,
so it makes me happy if you talk to me, in order to rebalance them
c:
Title: strikethrough is clearly sarcasm here
Post by: Ceridran on March 11, 2014, 09:40:38 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
M. BISON
Yeah, ok. Sure. The RaThor+Cpt.Falcon Critizism is a cocern, though.
Pretty sure my entire point of this submission was to bring the awareness of M.Bison back towards this mod, not actually use this setup itself. how many times do I have to repeat myself here

Oh, is that what you meant?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: OtakuAlex on March 11, 2014, 10:43:02 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
Again, you're not using an idea meant for something of my own for unholy bosses. That mod is literally the laughingstock of hale mods and I want nothing of mine to be associated with it.

I agree with this 100%.

------------------------------------

Also, the Cutman + Frostman boss sounds like it would be great to have.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: fortegigasgospel on March 11, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
Quote from: "Legtendga"
I don't know weather or not this is Democratic or not, but here are my feelings about the suggestions before this post.
You missed mine. ;P
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 11, 2014, 11:22:41 PM
If it is the laughing stock, then it is successful. I do beleive it is intentionally so zainy and crazy. I'm not the biggest fan, but it's not offencively bad, by any means.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 11, 2014, 11:24:29 PM
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
Quote from: "Legtendga"
I don't know weather or not this is Democratic or not, but here are my feelings about the suggestions before this post.
You missed mine. ;P
I'm so indifferent to that... I don't know what I could add to it. :
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 11, 2014, 11:37:13 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
But then again, for any of these, I'm not trying to convince you I'm trying to convince Tails; I'd very much so appreciate a pm or something from him concerning these submissions.

I wanted to relax for a few days since it's Spring Break for me, and soon I'll have to buckle down and get some work done with both homework assignments and studying for a midterm, and also having to fix up some issues with Rebirth. I'm just looking over each submission and giving my personal opinions about them, but this in NO WAY means they will be accepted or considered if I favor a few of the submissions. I was waiting a bit longer for some more submissions, but I guess I must do this early.

If I don't get any posts after this, I'll just edit this post when I finish my analysis. Just to give you an idea of how far along I am: I finished Chaos_Fantazy's bosses, and it's time for dinner. Don't expect this to finish for a little while.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 11, 2014, 11:57:58 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
But then again, for any of these, I'm not trying to convince you I'm trying to convince Tails; I'd very much so appreciate a pm or something from him concerning these submissions.

I wanted to relax for a few days since it's Spring Break for me, and soon I'll have to buckle down and get some work done with both homework assignments and studying for a midterm, and also having to fix up some issues with Rebirth. I'm just looking over each submission and giving my personal opinions about them, but this in NO WAY means they will be accepted or considered if I favor a few of the submissions. I was waiting a bit longer for some more submissions, but I guess I must do this early.

If I don't get any posts after this, I'll just edit this post when I finish my analysis. Just to give you an idea of how far along I am: I finished Chaos_Fantazy's bosses, and it's time for dinner. Don't expect this to finish for a little while.
All is well, do it at your leasure. As though I needed to tell you that.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Linnie on March 11, 2014, 11:59:52 PM
To the idea of Cutman Riding Frostman: I think it'd be a great idea if it could be done, but it seems like coding such a thing would be hell, so I wouldn't vote on it just because of the amount of work it would cause. If you know of a way to create something like this, though, that wouldn't take weeks of bashing your head against a keyboard trying to figure out how to code it, then I'd very much be interested in seeing such a thing be done; I'm merely concerned about the complexity of making it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: fortegigasgospel on March 12, 2014, 12:06:48 AM
Quote from: "Legtendga"
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
Quote from: "Legtendga"
I don't know weather or not this is Democratic or not, but here are my feelings about the suggestions before this post.
You missed mine. ;P
I'm so indifferent to that... I don't know what I could add to it. :
I understand, it isn't exactly a great idea anyway, and many people aren't partial to the idea of the DOS games at all in any shape or form. I just had the idea in my head for a long time.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 12, 2014, 01:52:52 AM
So my analysis is finished, but even if I speak posititvely about a boss, it does NOT mean the boss is going to get added in. Anyway, bosses from ++ are rejected because Star wants to wait until ++ v2a is finished before the two of us discuss about any of her bosses. As for Hyper...I didn't have a very good opinion of all of ++'s bosses minus one. But I will attempt to judge them as fairly as I did the new bosses.

What I will say is that quite a few of these bosses failed what I will coin the "Crash Man test". To get an idea of what I mean, take a look around at all of the places players could hide in Crash Man's stage. Your boss MUST have an ability that can reach even the highest hole, because the players definitely can go up there even with Item 1. If it fails this test, I can't even consider the boss. This is just ONE expectation I have for upcoming boss requests, though. Because I have personally seen what bosses work and what fail, I have to be brutally honest at times, so if I end up coming off as a jerk, which I try to avoid doing, then it just means your idea was not that good at all. I really want to see good bosses from the community, so if there are any that score well on my critical analysis, then the boss will be up for debate with my dev team, and I may not even be the most critical on the team, so keep that in mind...anyway, let's begin.


Quote from: "CHAOS_FANTAZY"
The Horseless Headless Horsemann
(click to show/hide)

In this system it's kind of counter-intuitive to have this guy when we have been focusing on making sure bosses can deal partial damage if their attack is not direct. However the idea in general is pretty good, though if we were to follow the format of Versus Saxton Hale, this would have to be Horseman Jr. since the other version only appears during Halloween time. Btw, custom obituaries are fine as well, though I personally would just remove the part just after the name of the one controlling him. Also, I personally feel his health is too high.


Spiked Wall Man
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Simple design, which for my experience with bosses makes this appealing work-wise. This boss IS rather memeish, but it does make for an interesting battle. Health seems about right.

Copy Robot
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I see an issue with this concept, actually. What if he ends up getting a weapon like Flash Stopper or some other weapon that is generally situational? He should have the ability to grab another weapon. I can see some people switching weapons real quick to one that would handicap Copy Robot just so they can finish the boss off quickly. Based on what this boss can do, I see his health being a bit too high, maybe around 150 per player or something since he sometimes can get weapons that make it hard to approach him (imagine infinite Napalm Bomb or Thunder Beam). The clones also sound quite a bit overpowered if they are able to do the exact same things he can do. I'd probably do maybe 75 health per player for the clones, because remember that in a large server he can rage more than once. This honestly needs a little more work if I can find quite a few things wrong right away.


Invincible Airman
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This definitely has a memeish quality to the character itself. The rest of it was pretty good, though.


Epic Pharaohman
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Yeah, this doesn't stand much chance either, since I actually was involved for a bit in 4MI, and it was around the time Pharaoh Man's stage was being developed, so I know which of the curses either didn't work or wasn't worth the effort. But regardless, this just sounds ridiculously overpowered. Really can't say much else about it. It hurt his chances even more to try to get in his 4MI behavior as well. This would probably be ok as a legendary hale if we ever make one of those. But since we are not at that point...I don't think so.


Hidden Shadowman
(click to show/hide)

For one thing, his item may very well have been his rage instead. Some people like Celebi and myself may be able to use this boss effectively, but I doubt many of the others would understand this boss's concept. Also, the Super Jump is too underpowered and thus fails the Crash Man test, since some of the holes in the stage will be beyond his reach unless we make it more powerful, and to balance that out would require nerfing something else in his behavior. This doesn't stand much of a chance. I understand the need for more Mega Man bosses, but they need to be of good quality, and this isn't that kind of quality that I am looking for.


Orange Juice/MusashiAA (SaviorSword HERO)
(click to show/hide)

I couldn't read everything. This is just way too complicated to set up, and we don't really need to have anyone in Cutstuff represented in this, that's why we have the Cutstuff Community Classes. The survivors are basically useless during the entire fight, so this would end up being a HUGE stallfest. No chance whatsoever of this getting in at all.


Dark Bowser
(click to show/hide)

Just no. For one thing, the main attack will be too hard to land because by the time you got enough power in your punch, no one is going to be dumb enough to be in range. The rage idea is an interesting concept, but the rest of the boss is only ok.


Airman James
(click to show/hide)

We already have a MM8BDM meme in Scrooge, so we don't need another. Way too much health for someone with his mobility, and his main attack would make him too reliant on getting enough Rage.


Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
(click to show/hide)

For various reasons this one stands little chance of making it in. For one thing, a custom skin is needed. Stock skins will no longer be accepted UNLESS it's the RM itself. I want to reduce the reliance on skin makers to make the skins for bosses currently in. There is another reason for this rejection, but I will refrain from mentioning it.


For beta's, I will just keep this short. Omega Zero and Sonic are both too overpowered (Sonic already was too overpowered in Hyper), and Unknown Robot Master is not on the table at this point.


Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
(click to show/hide)

It's an interesting concept, but I feel their attacks could be a little more creative than just punching for Volt and Dyna. Of course, I say this not knowing how these robots actually fought in...PC, I think? This will have to wait until CRORQ is made as a skin, but this does have potential for being both from a Mega Man game and being obscure. Also, some stats for CRORQ would be great as well.


Now, let's see who is ne...Oooo, I'm looking forward to this. Now I can be the critic for once and not the other way around regarding my poor mapping skills...btw, the fact you didn't put any health down hurt your chances of any hales possibly being accepted. It just looks like these ideas were thought up quickly but not thoroughly.

Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
(click to show/hide)

There exists a Little Mac skin from what little research I did, but the skin is too large. This is automatically rejected until a suitable skin is made.


(click to show/hide)

You can do better than this. Just freezing time for a bit for a rage? For the amount of rage that you need in this mod, the rage is WAY underpowered. I think there's someone that could do this boss more justice.


(click to show/hide)

Now this one looks a little more polished than the previous two, but not by much. The rage, however, is practically useless. It looks to me, though, that you haven't even played Rebirth. Perhaps you would have known what is expected of a rage if you did. There needs to be something much more to the rage, like maybe increased attack/armor for the returning joes or something. The only thing to me that looked good was the extra item.


(click to show/hide)

I have no idea what I just read, really. Not much for me to talk about here. Next one...


(click to show/hide)

...Yeah, I think I'll just read up on the version of M. Bison that Balrog was attempting to make. Maybe I should actually talk to Balrog and see what came of him.


(click to show/hide)

No comment.


All right, that's enough of the joke bosses hopefully. Next is...oh, some rage ideas for Scrooge. Since right now he's in as a MM8BDM meme, hopefully we can get something good for him.

Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"
A few proposals for its replacement:

Rage Idea 1: Mrs. Beakley
"Mrs. Beakley?! What are you doing here?!" Mrs. Beakley teleports in, then throws out three items, randomly selected from the list below. Each one can be picked up by either the big duck himself or by a player, and the effects vary.
(click to show/hide)


The first rage honestly seems to favor the players more than Scrooge. Maybe one of the other rages you listed might be better...


Rage Idea 2: M-Coin
Scrooge picks up an M-Coin, causing him to be enveloped in energy. Scrooge is invulnerable while this is active, and moves slightly faster than normal. In addition, his cane swings and pogo lose their "error margin," becoming instant kills regardless of whether or not the duck scores a direct hit.


This kind of sounds like an improved version of one of Saxton Hale's old rages (there was a time his rage made him unable to take damage). The only thing really creative about this is the name of the rage. Next one...


Rage Idea 3: The Five Treasures
Scrooge reveals the Five Treasures, summoning the great Count Dracula Duck to aid him. Drake has health equal to about half his master's current amount, and a duration of about 30 seconds before he vanishes in a flash of bats. The Count summons bats that move erratically towards players, teleports around the arena, and swoops down on players who dare venture too close.


Now we're talking. This sounds pretty good for a rage, though probably a bit tricky to program. If this rage ends up getting accepted, I'll probably ask for some help on this rage, since my knowledge of Decorate and behaviors is limited. At least unlike a majority of the rages requested for bosses that I have reviewed already, this actually sounds useful. What about the last one?


Rage Idea 4: Gizmoduck
Scrooge summons Fenton and his glorious Gizmoduck suit! After putting on the suit in a blur of energy, Gizmoduck unloads fast-moving missile payloads upon any man foolish enough to wander into his line of sight. These missiles have great target tracking and explode on impact, dealing enough damage to level a player if they make contact. ...There's also a very small chance that the suit will drop a slow-moving, non-homing nuke or a pair of boxers that float down harmlessly instead of the normal missile, but don't count on either happening with any frequency. Gizmoduck has about 25% of his employer's health at time of summoning and will automatically beam away after 30 seconds of service.


Not quite as useful as the third rage, but I think if this gets accepted, this might be a good enough rage to improve a bit and put it among the greatest of rages (as in equal to Gilgamesh's and Dio Flash's rages).


Scrooge desperately needs a different rage, so I welcome Cold_Fusion's attempt at changing his rage. I'll definitely consider the last two rages. Let's see, anything else?


Quote from: "Linnie"
(click to show/hide)

Well, it's an attempt at least. Honestly the idea is not very creative, as it just sounds more like you want Cutman from MMSP to be in Saxton Hale. Let's leave those bosses to MMSP itself, shall we?


Quote from: "Ceridran"
Second, there already exists a superior suggestion for M. Bison. Not because I made it, of course, but because everybody else seems to have been in favor of it.

Here it is.

Quote
Name: M. Bison

Skin: M.Bison (Llamahombre)
Color: Dark Red (Primary) Red (Secondary)

Attack:

EDITED IN: thanks smashbro:
Punch (slows target) --> Kick (short forward dash to catch target) --> Scissor (where all the damage is hiding)

If held down, Bison starts charging his right hand with Psycho Power, and then surrounds himself in Psycho Energy while flying spinning towards his opponents, similar to a torpedo. (Psycho Crusher) The damage is up to you, but it's a ripper. EDITED IN: thanks again smashbro: Bison is also not limited by gravity when using this, to help the lack of a super jump.

Item: Bison Warp

Bison warps forward the distance of 2 and a half players, facing torwards his previous location.

Rage: Final Psycho Crusher

Behaves essentially identically to the normal Psycho Crusher, but the hitbox is somewhat larger, the travel distance is longer, and the travel speed is faster. It is an OHKO, if not near OHKO. Oh, and you don't have to charge it, of course. EDITED IN: When this ends, Bison has his movement speed increased temporarily.

Bison is invincible for the duration of the rage.

Obituaries:

"[victim] was sent to the grave by M.Bison ([boss])"
"M.Bison's ([boss]) Psycho Power fed off of [victim]"

Health:

I can't balance this to save my life.

Music:

(click to show/hide)


I honestly had hoped the submission to be a little more polished. Maybe Balrog knew some things you guys didn't when he started developing M. Bison. First, I do not see any indication that he is able to gain a lot of vertical distance, which means he fails the Crash Man test, and that's an automatic rejection. For his main attack, how long does it take to charge, and is he able to look around while charging, or does he stay the same direction he faces when he's charging? For his item, how much of a cool down should it have? I imagine if it is a fairly low cool down that the item actually can be quite useful. The rage looks good to me.


Let's see...finally, Rebirth Falcon was too ineffective at fighting multiple players, hence he was removed. Smash/Gizmo actually had asked for him to be removed anyway. Gizmo is free to resubmit his version of Falcon later if he chooses to do so.

Wow, that was a lot to go through, but at last it's done. At least I got a few possible recommendations to mention to the other staff...keep the requests coming!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: xColdxFusionx on March 12, 2014, 02:48:13 AM
Oh hey, feedback.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quote from: "xColdxFusionx"
Rage Idea 1: Mrs. Beakley

The first rage honestly seems to favor the players more than Scrooge. Maybe one of the other rages you listed might be better...
This one was more done out of "what would make the most sense in-universe", and the "players can grab it" mechanic was an attempt to balance what is otherwise potentially one of the most potent healing rages in the game. Not really surprised by the "iffy" reaction; I wasn't sure if it would get received well myself after I typed it up.


Rage Idea 2: M-Coin

This kind of sounds like an improved version of one of Saxton Hale's old rages (there was a time his rage made him unable to take damage). The only thing really creative about this is the name of the rage. Next one...
Also an attempt to make something that makes sense with the game of origin. It's based on the invincibility pickup from Ducktales, and everything after that part was just me trying to make it not terribly generic.

Rage Idea 3: The Five Treasures

Now we're talking. This sounds pretty good for a rage, though probably a bit tricky to program. If this rage ends up getting accepted, I'll probably ask for some help on this rage, since my knowledge of Decorate and behaviors is limited. At least unlike a majority of the rages requested for bosses that I have reviewed already, this actually sounds useful. What about the last one?
Ironically enough, this is the rage I like the least. It doesn't really make sense in canon and doesn't really seem all that interesting apart from the initial "OH SHIN SPLINTS IT'S DRACULA DUCK." Apart from that, he's not all that interesting; it's a guy who warps around and shoots bats at people randomly. ...Woo.


Rage Idea 4: Gizmoduck

Not quite as useful as the third rage, but I think if this gets accepted, this might be a good enough rage to improve a bit and put it among the greatest of rages (as in equal to Gilgamesh's and Dio Flash's rages).
This is probably the one that I liked the most out of these, actually. Just imagine Gizmoduck getting plopped down in an open stage and everyone desperately trying to flee and find cover from the hail of death missiles...

Thanks for the feedback! I'll post again if I come up with anything else.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Hallan Parva on March 12, 2014, 02:56:15 AM
Hi, just wanted to clarify a couple of things on Bison since I helped type up the "revamp" version.

He can get to holes in Crash Man, the Psycho Crusher thrusts you directly forward. If you look straight up he'll barrel into the sky.
I was assuming the charge time would be barely longer than a second at worst, a tad shorter than Duo Fist.
Psycho Crusher can't OHKO but his melee combo has the potential to do so, and I thought to make up for it the charge shouldn't take long.
Bison can't redirect himself during Psycho Crusher, but I didn't consider it with Final Psycho Crusher (the rage). It might be fun, though.

Also, the item can be used immediately after the animation plays. In Street Fighter, Bison Warp warped the player, reversed their direction if they passed the opponent, and Bison did a short laugh with his arms crossed. I have a good feeling that, after warping, not being able to move or attack for that split second is more than enough to catch a warp-spamming Bison and deal some major damage. On the flip side of the coin, being able to warp immediately out of another warp could be incredibly useful to feint a tricky foe by double-warping to your original position, making them waste some of their precious ammo.

[RESUBMIT]
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: fortegigasgospel on March 12, 2014, 04:04:46 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
(click to show/hide)

It's an interesting concept, but I feel their attacks could be a little more creative than just punching for Volt and Dyna. Of course, I say this not knowing how these robots actually fought in...PC, I think? This will have to wait until CRORQ is made as a skin, but this does have potential for being both from a Mega Man game and being obscure. Also, some stats for CRORQ would be great as well.

Well I wasn't expecting positive feedback, but in response to some things.
Sonic's weapon is based on the only attack he does in game while his rage is based on the weapon he give.
Volt and Dyna rages are their own attacks from in game, aside from that they only jumped into you, which is what Dyna's main is based on.

If we replace the punches I'd say Volt get a close range forward wave attack, similar to what his discharge lets out, which helps block some attacks. While Dyna gets a forward thrown Nuclear Detonator that arcs downward before exploding and deals less damage.

For CRORQ's HP, due to having three players to protect it, who respawn non-stop, I'd say Mid-low HP, I'm not good with exacts.
(click to show/hide)
Also did the starting work for this monster of a full skin. Yay rotations that I suck at.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: idiot9.0 on March 12, 2014, 04:06:21 AM
I want to go ahead and try to rework that Sakuya idea. I like the idea of her being a long-range boss but how she was put she seems like a Dio Clone. So here's my attempt at it.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 12, 2014, 05:54:15 AM
I don't particularly remember asking for Falcon to be removed, but I'm okay with it regardless. I'll try to see what I can do for him myself.
I know little to nothing about actually making hales, though. (Otherwise I'd have made a few by now...)

Also, while we're on the subject of suggestions, I have quite a bit of them myself. IF you're interested in reading them, that is. I know you just got through a text wall full of them.
Title: Finally, it's time to get this one out...
Post by: Hilman170499 on March 12, 2014, 07:08:10 AM
Sorry to crash the party, but if boss submissions are still open, I have been holding this one for a long time.

(click to show/hide)
-If the gimmick is impossible to code, feel free to reject.
-Do I need to contribute to stuff like sprites or coding myself?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: HeelNavi on March 13, 2014, 12:28:38 PM
I've also a lot of hale ideas.

CHEETAHMEN FOR HALES !!

Here's one :

Goku (aka Super Sand Legend):

(click to show/hide)

Yeah,I know,being retarded is an art...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: OtakuAlex on March 13, 2014, 01:20:52 PM
In terms of my boss suggestion, what are all the issues with it? I could change it a little and see if it's fine then. I just want to see it make it into a SH gamemode.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 14, 2014, 12:20:06 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I currently do not have permission to use the bosses from ++, and never will unless Stardust gives her approval. My stance has changed after talking with her some more regarding her hales.
In what way have they changed (if I may ask)?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 15, 2014, 11:30:38 PM
Anyway, Hale suggestions, anyone?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on March 15, 2014, 11:37:25 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Horseless Headless Horsemann
In this system it's kind of counter-intuitive to have this guy when we have been focusing on making sure bosses can deal partial damage if their attack is not direct. However the idea in general is pretty good, though if we were to follow the format of Versus Saxton Hale, this would have to be Horseman Jr. since the other version only appears during Halloween time. Btw, custom obituaries are fine as well, though I personally would just remove the part just after the name of the one controlling him. Also, I personally feel his health is too high.
I see.  That was not a convention back in the Balrog days when that sketch (And, indeed, all following it) were written.  The delay before swinging might be enough to counterbalance what would otherwise be a need for delay, but if it turns out not to be, I'd be fine with it being replaced with the graze system.
Personally, I never understood why they never didn't just opt to call the TF2 edition the actual HHH; they don't exhibit any unique qualities that make them different from the original.  But that's a personal qualm.
200 HP per player was made without balance in mind, to be honest; it was intended to be a reference to the actual HHH's health formula, which is 3,000 + 200(p) where "p" is the number of players on the server.  If it needs to be tweaked, that's fine.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Copy Robot
I see an issue with this concept, actually. What if he ends up getting a weapon like Flash Stopper or some other weapon that is generally situational? He should have the ability to grab another weapon. I can see some people switching weapons real quick to one that would handicap Copy Robot just so they can finish the boss off quickly. Based on what this boss can do, I see his health being a bit too high, maybe around 150 per player or something since he sometimes can get weapons that make it hard to approach him (imagine infinite Napalm Bomb or Thunder Beam). The clones also sound quite a bit overpowered if they are able to do the exact same things he can do. I'd probably do maybe 75 health per player for the clones, because remember that in a large server he can rage more than once. This honestly needs a little more work if I can find quite a few things wrong right away.
Perhaps he could have a list of copyweps that he can't get (Which, upon defeating someone equipped with it, he would just keep the weapon he has instead).  Such a list would include situational weapons like Flash Stopper and the ones that are broken with infinite ammo (Skull Barrier, Time Stopper, so on and so forth).  Admittedly, it is an idea I've neglected to polish, mostly because this is the first real feedback I've ever got instead of just "I like this" or "I hate this" or "Chaos your hale ideas are bad and you should feel bad".

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Hidden Shadowman
For one thing, his item may very well have been his rage instead. Some people like Celebi and myself may be able to use this boss effectively, but I doubt many of the others would understand this boss's concept. Also, the Super Jump is too underpowered and thus fails the Crash Man test, since some of the holes in the stage will be beyond his reach unless we make it more powerful, and to balance that out would require nerfing something else in his behavior. This doesn't stand much of a chance. I understand the need for more Mega Man bosses, but they need to be of good quality, and this isn't that kind of quality that I am looking for.
I suppose it is very true that The Hidden is a very different beast from your typical VSH fare.  I would like to see someone try to port it, but it would be very out-of-place in a VSH mod.

Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Airman James
We already have a MM8BDM meme in Scrooge, so we don't need another. Way too much health for someone with his mobility, and his main attack would make him too reliant on getting enough Rage.
The idea behind his main attack was so that James could do some TF2 Pyro-esque airblast-into-pit action, while still being able to kill in the case that the map didn't have any pits.  The reason he has a kind-of-ridiculous health bar is for that reason—if the level has no pits, he's going to be at a disadvantage by default, so I felt the need to counterbalance that.  Of course, this probably needs tweaking.  Maybe he could have a charged edition of it that does better damage?  I dunno.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on March 16, 2014, 12:02:41 AM
Boss Submissions for this mod Go!

Dr. Doom
(click to show/hide)

Also have a revamped Doom Marine
(click to show/hide)

As you noticed these suggestion are different from the usually formula, thats the idea to give these bosses variety instead of the cookie cutter design the others have. Also tried my best with these suggestions. also feedback would be appreciated.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Koal on March 17, 2014, 06:39:24 AM
Wait, you are taking Hale Suggestions? Well then, I shall suggest one then.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 17, 2014, 08:06:12 AM
Guys, these are going to be auto-rejected.
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
What I will say is that quite a few of these bosses failed what I will coin the "Crash Man test". To get an idea of what I mean, take a look around at all of the places players could hide in Crash Man's stage. Your boss MUST have an ability that can reach even the highest hole, because the players definitely can go up there even with Item 1. If it fails this test, I can't even consider the boss.
Please go ahead and edit your posts to account for this.


Also,
Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Also, while we're on the subject of suggestions, I have quite a bit of them myself. IF you're interested in reading them, that is.
We are indeed, fire away.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 17, 2014, 04:01:34 PM
Well, if you say so! Since I'm on the team, technically, I COULD try to make these myself. I've just been so swamped with all kinds of projects and things to do, that I just haven't found the time!

Anyway, Brace yourselves. There's a lot here.
Quote from: SmashTheEchidna

Akuma
(click to show/hide)


Barbatos Goetia
(click to show/hide)


Smash The Echidna - I don't really want this to get in anymore, but I still have this saved so feel free to look.
(click to show/hide)

T.A.C.
(click to show/hide)

Rawk Hawk
(click to show/hide)

The Ultimate Chimera - Originally suggested as a replacement for Slenderman, or at least another boss like him in which you have to run from. Info is a bit outdated, of course. And considering that the concept of Slenderman isn't too popular these days...
(click to show/hide)


Smash Daisaku

(click to show/hide)


Captain Falcon - This is simply what I had planned for his moveset. You can skip this if you want, since Captain Falcon is going to make come back as long as I have anything to say about it.
(click to show/hide)


Partners in Crime These characters are my own personal characters. Unlike Smash, who is more or less "Me", these guys are actually villains in my series and would fit much better as bosses.
(click to show/hide)


The Shadow Sirens

(click to show/hide)


NegaDuck

(click to show/hide)


EDIT: wow I've been looking all over for this. Neat. I dunno how outdated it is; not that it matters at this point.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Ceridran on March 17, 2014, 04:18:20 PM
Rawk Hawk? Is that a 2x better replacement for Saxton Hale I see there? bias, go away, anything could replace him, because he's too simple!

You have my axe approval. He has plenty of different things outside of the rage, it has an appeal.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 17, 2014, 04:58:55 PM
I never planned to 'replace' anybody. (except for maybe slenderman with the ultimate chimera, but eh...)

Still, thanks. Rawk Hawk is one of the ones I'd most enjoy seeing in game.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Ceridran on March 17, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
Replacements is just what I see. Outrageously generic bosses with the kit we know as: O.H.K.M.S.D.W.T.O.U.A.B.H.R.A.* should be instantly rejected.









*One Hit Kill Melee Superjumping Dude With The Only Unique Attack Being His Rage Attack.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 17, 2014, 06:14:07 PM
And that's exactly what I've been trying to subvert with my suggestions.

I haven't really touched some of the older ones too much, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on March 19, 2014, 01:57:12 AM
Quote from: "Legtendga"
Guys, these are going to be auto-rejected.
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
What I will say is that quite a few of these bosses failed what I will coin the "Crash Man test". To get an idea of what I mean, take a look around at all of the places players could hide in Crash Man's stage. Your boss MUST have an ability that can reach even the highest hole, because the players definitely can go up there even with Item 1. If it fails this test, I can't even consider the boss.
Please go ahead and edit your posts to account for this.

Quote from: "Tfp BreakDown"
Super Jump:N/A. His attacks are hitscan, which makes up for the lack of a super jump.

So having no super jump automatically get rejected. mmkay than
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 19, 2014, 04:43:06 AM
Quote from: "Tfp BreakDown"
So having no super jump automatically get rejected.
Yeah, so just edit your post right quick.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on March 19, 2014, 04:48:51 AM
Quote from: "Legtendga"
Quote from: "Tfp BreakDown"
So having no super jump automatically get rejected.
Yeah, so just edit your post right quick.
So basically make like it like a cookie cutter paste n copy like all the other glass in this mod. How about I just remove their attacks give them Bloody punches And rages that make them invincible and call it a day. How's that sound? :1
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 19, 2014, 05:25:28 AM
The point is that your hale needs some way to reach people who can hide in such high heights. That is why the super jump, or something that allows access to campers, is a necessity.

I don't know much about hitscan weapons, but if you have a ranged attack you can most likely shoot people down and out of those Crash Cubby Holes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1a Official Releas
Post by: Legtendga on March 19, 2014, 06:29:50 AM
Tfp, this is something blatantly crucial to consider when designing a Hale; it must be able to prevent people just stalling out by getting somewhere he cannot reach. No need to get snippy. It doesn't need to be SJ, but it does need to be something; anything to get the Hale up there. Jump meter could act as a Rush Jet to fly him around every refill. He could just have a really high normal jump. It must be something, at any rate.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Legtendga on March 21, 2014, 11:56:00 PM
Yay, V1B!
Oooooh, unique weapons per player... hmm... Could we get weapon drop on death turned on now?
WHY IS STARMAN STILL SO FAST???
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on March 25, 2014, 05:17:19 PM
All right, time for the next session of reviews...and when we resume working for v2a, I'll make some recommendations. I also have a boss idea of my own that I could probably create on my own, but I'd like feedback on it. First, the other bosses:

Quote from: "idiot9.0"
I want to go ahead and try to rework that Sakuya idea. I like the idea of her being a long-range boss but how she was put she seems like a Dio Clone. So here's my attempt at it.

(click to show/hide)


While I feel the items are still up for debate, of course, the rest of her seems pretty good. I may knock down the items some since it sometimes is confusing enough when you have one extra item with bosses like Ra Thor. I mainly wanted to see what the rage was like, and I feel this is doable to an extent. It would be easy to slow down the players, but probably not the elements of the stage itself.


Quote from: "<*Hilman170499*>"
Sorry to crash the party, but if boss submissions are still open, I have been holding this one for a long time.

(click to show/hide)
-If the gimmick is impossible to code, feel free to reject.
-Do I need to contribute to stuff like sprites or coding myself?


The gimmick itself is possible to do, let me just get that out of the way. While the boss idea is pretty good, this is a little beyond the current knowledge of boss-making that I have, so if this does get in I may need help from someone on the devteam to make this. I'm not sure yet if I'll allow a Secondary attack since none of the other bosses have one, since having an alt-fire attack kind of complicates the boss design, and the sudden activation of the rage can catch some players off-guard if they are facing a pit as the rage turns on.


Quote from: "HeelNavi"
I've also a lot of hale ideas.

CHEETAHMEN FOR HALES !!

Here's one :

Goku (aka Super Sand Legend):

(click to show/hide)

Yeah,I know,being retarded is an art...


Yeah, the nature of the show where Goku is from makes him kind of hard to fit in here. Doing the Kamehameha as a rage would probably be the best representation, but it may give him the same problem as Captain Falcon with his rage. I personally have issues with the transformation rage, though at least Goku can still take damage unlike Sonic's rage in Hyper. I kind of want to stay away from that kin of rage, hence why I thought one of Goku's signature moves would be better. I honestly feel that there would be a lot of debate about how best to get this guy in. I'll wait to see if people come up with more ideas for this guy.


Quote from: "Tfp BreakDown"
Boss Submissions for this mod Go!

Dr. Doom
(click to show/hide)

Also have a revamped Doom Marine
(click to show/hide)

As you noticed these suggestion are different from the usually formula, thats the idea to give these bosses variety instead of the cookie cutter design the others have. Also tried my best with these suggestions. also feedback would be appreciated.


TFP, I already know you're pretty upset regarding the super jump, but the point is that the bosses need a way to catch campers on stages like Crash Man, or the match can go on forever. It DOES not have to be a super jump, but it can be something like perhaps giving your Marine something like a grenade with good explosion range that can be launched high in the air. Just launch it into one of the holes, and bingo, you killed a camper. You just need to be creative is all. Anyway, regarding your bosses, Dr. Doom seems to be designed to be a tank. I don't know the exact value for Green Armor, but the fact you're suggesting armor means that this guy may need to be even slower than Gilgamesh to balance out the health and armor. That tankiness probably wouldn't work that well in Rebirth, since what's the use if you can't even catch people? For rages, I personally would go with the second rage since the first rage really is just spamming the main attack in all directions. For the Marine, this boss honestly is very powerful as is. Another tanky boss, with pretty much the combination in abilities of Quote (as in having a powerful weapon, not necessarily chargeable) and Curly (weak but fires many bullets). And eventually, this boss will start to outrun players in Rebirth, so I think this guy will get some significant nerfs if he gets in.


Quote from: "Koal"
Wait, you are taking Hale Suggestions? Well then, I shall suggest one then.

(click to show/hide)


Let's not forget that your boss currently is unable to deal with campers, but as for the rest of it...I personally like the soldiers in the MS series myself. It also would be very easy for me to do a check to see if their target is right next to them. Honestly the boss is pretty good, but cannot overlook the fact the boss is missing a skin and a suitable alternative to the Super Jump. The soldiers and rage MAY be able to get campers, but the grenades would need a large radius to them.


I'll review Smash's stuff later and add in my boss, as this post is big enough as is, and I get a lot of lag typing in this. >_>
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on March 25, 2014, 05:23:53 PM
Yeah, I have an entire wall of text for you to go through, so better to wait until you're ready for it. =P

EDIT: Updated Akuma's info.
Title: May I please answer some feedback?
Post by: Hilman170499 on March 26, 2014, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quote from: "<*Hilman170499*>"
Sorry to crash the party, but if boss submissions are still open, I have been holding this one for a long time.

(click to show/hide)
-If the gimmick is impossible to code, feel free to reject.
-Do I need to contribute to stuff like sprites or coding myself?


The gimmick itself is possible to do, let me just get that out of the way. While the boss idea is pretty good, this is a little beyond the current knowledge of boss-making that I have, so if this does get in I may need help from someone on the devteam to make this. I'm not sure yet if I'll allow a Secondary attack since none of the other bosses have one, since having an alt-fire attack kind of complicates the boss design, and the sudden activation of the rage can catch some players off-guard if they are facing a pit as the rage turns on.
About the second attack, I'll just leave it to decision. Regarding the rage being auto-activate, it's actually an anti-stalling plan. If the rage was manual, then the boss could just refrain from raging if the bar was full. This is crucial because like I said, he only becomes vulnerable to damage after the rage, and if he refrains from raging the whole time, he could stay nigh-invincible for the entire battle. Although, however, I did think about the rage and environmental hazards, but not in that way.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: idiot9.0 on March 26, 2014, 06:16:18 AM
I'm going to try what I did before and and try to rework one of those hales. This time it's for Goku, and it's rather minor but it does have a few differences.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Koal on March 26, 2014, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quote from: "Koal"
Wait, you are taking Hale Suggestions? Well then, I shall suggest one then.

(click to show/hide)


Let's not forget that your boss currently is unable to deal with campers, but as for the rest of it...I personally like the soldiers in the MS series myself. It also would be very easy for me to do a check to see if their target is right next to them. Honestly the boss is pretty good, but cannot overlook the fact the boss is missing a skin and a suitable alternative to the Super Jump. The soldiers and rage MAY be able to get campers, but the grenades would need a large radius to them.


Hrm now that I've thought about it, how about instead of a Super jump he gets what is effectively an upgraded version of the grappling hook power up? Give it greater reach and greatly increase the height it pulls you to about the same as what a super jump would give. But of course, this would give Allen O'Neil alot of mobility. More then a regular hale would have. As for a sprite, there's nothing I can do about that. Unless Smash or someone else is willing to make one for me, he'll have to be a placeholder until you can place a request for his skin to be made.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on April 01, 2014, 11:24:34 PM
I like how in your mentions of my DM submission you guys never took note of the rocket launcher attack in there. IN THE ITEM SECTION>
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: OtakuAlex on April 02, 2014, 01:04:04 AM
I think TFP is hinting at rocket jumping.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Legtendga on April 02, 2014, 01:16:11 AM
Well then. Are you?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on April 02, 2014, 01:30:35 AM
no I am not. Don't be putting in lies here alex, ya brillopad ass motherfucker. But seriously how did you miss that when going through my submission? Also Why would I put that in, when I'm trying to keep it accurate to source.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: OtakuAlex on April 02, 2014, 01:43:47 AM
Quote from: "Tfp BreakDown"
no I am not. Don't be putting in lies here alex, ya brillopad ass motherfucker. But seriously how did you miss that when going through my submission? Also Why would I put that in, when I'm trying to keep it accurate to source.

Oh, OK then. I wasn't putting in lies, though. I said "I think" as in it was a guess. =S

Meh, whatever. And, yeah, I suppose rocket jumps aren't in vanilla DooM and are just something added to some source ports.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on April 02, 2014, 02:34:18 AM
Tfp, that was uncalled for. >:/
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on April 02, 2014, 02:54:40 AM
@smash

No need to get upset, twas a good playing my marsupial friend. (http://youtu.be/_-HWHLObocg?t=3m16s)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Legtendga on April 02, 2014, 03:34:23 AM
Anyway, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE NEED SOME UNHOLY IN OUR HALE!

Name: DEMON EYE TRIO
(click to show/hide)
Very late April Fool's!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Knux on April 02, 2014, 06:18:16 PM
Actually...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on April 06, 2014, 04:26:54 AM
While I wait for the skins I need to magically fall from the sky to post the remaining sketches I have, I decided to take a request from the community.

A Perfect Pair of Plumbers
(click to show/hide)

I'm rather proud of this one; unlike Dark Bowser, it well represents the Mario series as a whole, and in general seems to be fairly sound.  I particularly like the item-pickup mechanic, though that needs playtesting to prove whether or not it's fun.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on April 08, 2014, 01:22:51 AM
Well, I WAS going to do this last week, but I ended up having a hard drive failure, so yeah...time to get back to work. First I'll post the boss idea that I'm been thinking about. I won't suggest this unless you guys like the idea a lot, but I will just say right now that I pretty much know how to design this boss, though some particulars like health may change when testing this boss. I present, for a long time I have been waiting for this moment...my hopefully-soon-to-be-author-inserted boss!

(click to show/hide)


More ideas to be posted later, perhaps. Anyway, back to the reviews...uh, for Smash's stuff I had to "snip" some of his entries primarily because Captain Falcon is already in and some others were bosses that Smash did not want added in after he posted it. So now that the list is a little shorter, first up is...


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Barbatos Goetia
(click to show/hide)

Oh geez, I may have to think about this one. Since this was originally meant to be a hard mode only boss, I may have to nerf him in some ways to make him fit well with the other bosses, unless I decide to go against the majority opinion and implement a Hard Mode option anyway (though any crippling effects this boss sets on players will be replaced with perhaps a buff or two somewhere). I probably would do the third option for the Rage, as it definitely would be VERY effective against stallers. I haven't decided yet on how to implement secondary attacks and additional rages, so there may be some work to do to get this guy started. Also, normally I'm not too interested in simply recolored stock skins, but...I don't know. I think I had rejected skins like these before in previous entries. I may talk later about the skin privately.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
T.A.C.
(click to show/hide)

I really have two problems with this otherwise decent entry. First, since a skin isn't listed, it's kind of hard to pick this one up. My main concern is the Rage, though. Maybe JaxOf7 may have an idea on how to do the rage, but because of the way inventory works in Doom, I cannot think of any other way to do this besides setting up lines upon lines of code that removes and spawns each weapon and item onto the area, and I even think my logic may still be incorrect there. The concept is otherwise interesting and unique compared to other bosses.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Rawk Hawk
(click to show/hide)

I wish a skin had existed of this guy...I feel this is the only issue I have with this entry since I want to avoid using stock skins if at all possible. I see no worries about using a Charge Kick-like attack since we can always adjust its damage output, and I feel that's more of his character than a default punch. The Super Jump turns into an offensive attack, though it is definitely more useful in maps with lower ceilings. Players may just find the move awkward when they needed a regular Super Jump, but they will adjust over time. I already have discussed in a previous entry that I have yet to determine if bosses should be allowed to have an alternate attack. I should discuss that with my team first before we start allowing alternate attacks.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
The Ultimate Chimera - Originally suggested as a replacement for Slenderman, or at least another boss like him in which you have to run from. Info is a bit outdated, of course. And considering that the concept of Slenderman isn't too popular these days...
(click to show/hide)

It is common knowledge now that Slenderman was changed in Rebirth to not be completely invincible, so I have no idea if this concept will even work now, since people disliked Slenderman's old behavior (as you pointed out). Probably safe to say at this point this won't get in, but I could be wrong.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Smash Daisaku

(click to show/hide)

I've avoided having flying bosses since those tend to cross the line since they usually are hit to hit, but this at least is only noticeable when this guy is raging. As far as the skin, I'd prefer this guy have his own skin instead of reusing a skin that may be used for the M. Bison boss. That's really all I've got to say as the rest of the concept is solid.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Partners in Crime These characters are my own personal characters. Unlike Smash, who is more or less "Me", these guys are actually villains in my series and would fit much better as bosses.
(click to show/hide)

This kind of blew me away at the complexity of this entry, just trying to logically think of how to model the attacks these three can do. As these are fan characters, I have no idea how well they will be accepted in the community. I'll keep this short: while the amount of attacks they can do definitely make them stand out from other bosses, I just do not know what other people will think of having fan characters in the mod. This will have to be a wait and see.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
The Shadow Sirens

(click to show/hide)

I've already asked Smash about this, but I am not sure if enemies that are stuck to the floor can actually jump. I will have to research that later. Other than that, the only thing that I am not quite sure how to make work is Vivian's Rage. It's a bit trickier now to turn against teammates since it is TLMS. For Ra Thor I resolved this by making new minions switch teams, but since this one is temporary, that will not work too well. I do not believe the rest of the attacks would be that hard to do, but since I am very familiar with the Shadow Sirens, I do not notice anything out of the usual, aside from Beldam's Item. I cannot think of a way at this time to increase or decrease a weapon's damage. We may need to revise that bit later.


Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
NegaDuck

(click to show/hide)

This guy would probably be a pain to properly balance since this sounded like a Hard Mode boss to me. What interested me the most was the Rage of the normal form. Bosses exist already that need more Rage to use than others, so that's not a problem. I do think it adds to the complexity of the boss to basically have two different forms, but it would be interesting regardless. The concept is otherwise solid, though we definitely will discuss the health of this boss later.


...Ok, that seems to be all of Smash's stuff. Now for the single entries...

Quote from: "Legtendga"
Anyway, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE NEED SOME UNHOLY IN OUR HALE!

Name: DEMON EYE TRIO
(click to show/hide)
Very late April Fool's!

Oh gosh. I think I'll just leave it like this in the form of a popular expression: whatever happens in Unholy, stays in Unholy.


Quote from: "Knux"
Actually...
(click to show/hide)

Award those bonus points already, cause I can just modify a portion of code for Slenderman and change the color. Kidding aside, you got something creative going on with the alt-fire, pretty much eliminating the need for the Super Jump...except if you charge into a pit. The main attack, though, sounds like you're intending for this boss to be like a tank. Those kinds of bosses may not work that well in Rebirth, but you never know...


Quote from: "CHAOS_FANTAZY"
While I wait for the skins I need to magically fall from the sky to post the remaining sketches I have, I decided to take a request from the community.

A Perfect Pair of Plumbers
(click to show/hide)

I'm rather proud of this one; unlike Dark Bowser, it well represents the Mario series as a whole, and in general seems to be fairly sound.  I particularly like the item-pickup mechanic, though that needs playtesting to prove whether or not it's fun.

I do like the idea in general. There will be some more sprite work needed for this, but I think it would be a great addition to the mod. Really the only thing I didn't particularly care for is not in the design itself, but rather the theme. This particular theme is cheery, when something closer to a boss theme would be more suitable, imo.


Whew...I think we may have enough designs to go around for a little while, but you guys are always welcome to post more if you so desire. We had a lot of boss requests...35 in total. And upon searching all of the requests we've had so far, I realized I missed a redesign of one of the bosses by idiot9.0...

Quote from: "idiot9.0"
I'm going to try what I did before and and try to rework one of those hales. This time it's for Goku, and it's rather minor but it does have a few differences.
(click to show/hide)

This is a better design for Goku. I will need to say that 20 damage and ripping pretty much means stepping even a tiny bit inside the blast means instant death. Even 1 and ripping can be fatal. The Super Jump may be the trickiest part of this to design, but otherwise this is actually pretty good. Don't worry, the main attack being chargeable is completely doable. Just think of the different levels of Atomic Fire. Now I think this is really close to Goku's design in the games, though without all of that crazy extra power he gets later in the series.

NOW this is done. I think at this point I'm ready to suggest a few ideas to the devteam...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Stardust on April 08, 2014, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
(click to show/hide)

If this one ever EVEN happens, Mario Face's taunts are a MUST.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Ceridran on April 08, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: "Stardust"
If this one ever EVEN happens, Mario Face's taunts are a MUST.



.. Also, Luigi has nothing similar to those taunts, as far as I'm aware. It would be inconsistent if you used voice clips from two different sources.

You did read that this is a duo boss and not only Mario, right?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Stardust on April 08, 2014, 05:01:17 PM
My irony aside, if I remember correctly yeah I read the whole thing, and I did saw it was a duo :I
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on April 11, 2014, 06:47:35 PM
Rebirth is back up primarily for research purposes. Please let me know if the server crashes at any point, and provide any details if you can. I'm looking into the crashing problem that still persists, but any other details you can provide me would be great.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Superjustinbros on April 16, 2014, 12:57:03 AM
I do have an idea for Ninja Spy, unsure if it was considered before.

What if with a particular type of move, Ninja Spy was able to change his skin to become a normal-colored (cyan/blue) skin from vanilla 8BDM? He wouldn't display hurt animations/sounds considering how it's not possible to TK other human players, but his health would still drop.

He could also fire a dud Mega Buster that doesn't harm anyone.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: OtakuAlex on April 17, 2014, 01:48:26 AM
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
I do have an idea for Ninja Spy, unsure if it was considered before.

What if with a particular type of move, Ninja Spy was able to change his skin to become a normal-colored (cyan/blue) skin from vanilla 8BDM? He wouldn't display hurt animations/sounds considering how it's not possible to TK other human players, but his health would still drop.

He could also fire a dud Mega Buster that doesn't harm anyone.

What's the point of this other than hiding from the players? Especially with the no-damage buster....

Plus, this could easily be rendered useless with how players can see their target's name if identify players is on.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Hunter Frags on April 17, 2014, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
I do have an idea for Ninja Spy, unsure if it was considered before.

What if with a particular type of move, Ninja Spy was able to change his skin to become a normal-colored (cyan/blue) skin from vanilla 8BDM? He wouldn't display hurt animations/sounds considering how it's not possible to TK other human players, but his health would still drop.

He could also fire a dud Mega Buster that doesn't harm anyone.

What's the point of this other than hiding from the players? Especially with the no-damage buster....

Plus, this could easily be rendered useless with how players can see their target's name if identify players is on.

Here's a solution (although this might be a bit extreme): Remove all notification of who is transformed into Ninja Spy as well as editing the obits, make it so that when Ninja Spy appears, that the scoreboard is gone (like in that The Hunted mod, except just for that round if it's even possible to set that way), and make all players able to kill eachother to help with the disguising thing (this basically sounding like just implementing Megaman Mafia). as for the buster thing, that does sound pretty useless, so maybe either a normal/somewhat altered buster or just have him keep his shahanshah, but other than that, eh, whatever's fine.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Superjustinbros on April 18, 2014, 04:44:43 AM
Yeah, I suppose you could say this idea is just Mafia but in boss form. If something like this got in we'd have to take extreme measures in altering the idea to ensure people wouldn't wind up hating on this idea of making Ninja Spy more unique.

But yeah, I do like your ideas.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: idiot9.0 on April 19, 2014, 07:57:21 AM
You said we could still submit ideas so I'mma just post these two ideas so I stop procrastinating to post them before you stop accepting ideas.

First idea is a duo hale so be ready:
(click to show/hide)

Second is a gimmick-based hale idea so yeah...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on April 26, 2014, 01:04:13 AM
Alright, I've only got one more Hale idea for now, and ultimately, I'm not sure how many people are really interested in her.  But I'll go ahead and post her for public review anyway.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Now the Official Thread for R++'s Bosse
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 01, 2014, 05:10:11 AM
Well guys, I have some good news and some bad news...the bad news is that Rebirth is now dead. I won't go into details why this occurred, but the good news out of all of this is that Rebirth DOES live on in another SH mod...Stardust's ++. In fact, we have agreed to a new name for the new merged mod: Saxton Hale R++ (or Rebirth ++). While the gameplay is primarily the traditional SH gameplay, Rebirth's role in the merge mixes things up still. Among a few of the things that Rebirth had have been added to the merged mod:

- The randomized weapons
- The change in how bosses score hits (most now cannot OHKO)
- Rebirth's new boss and revised bosses
- Gilgamesh's voice clips (in fact he has an additional voice clip in R++ now)


So while Rebirth will now be archived, that doesn't mean I'm done with development for SH. I am kind of finding ways to fit in with the ++ team (along with a few of Rebirth's as well), and one role that I am keeping is that bosses can still be requested, it's just the background processes will be a little different. So, I will continue to review boss ideas and suggest possible boss ideas to SD. In fact, this thread shall be maintained for community requested bosses. Also, I'm considering picking up an old non-SH-project I had, so this thread will still have activity in it. So for those of you looking forward to Rebirth v2a, I hope instead the merged mod of R++ is worth the disappointment. At this time we are preparing for the final beta test, so the mod will be out very soon. Since I am a large factor in how R++ will get managed, I'll make sure that if you guys have any concerns that they will get heard. If you guys had any negative opinions of SD before, all that I ask is to keep an open mind and give her another chance. But for those of you that liked ++ anyway, then this update will be jam-packed full of new stuff. That's all for now, sorry to bring such a mixed bag of news, but I knew it was going to come to this anyway. I think this is for the best, though. It certainly reduces the true SH mods down to 1 (Rebalanced doesn't count and Unholy is kind of its own thing), so that's good. Hope you guys are ready for the epicness to come!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale Rebirth v1b released!)
Post by: Legtendga on May 01, 2014, 05:37:32 AM
Well, this happened faster than anticipated...
So... are these changes in structure effective in the soon-coming ++V2(would be R++V1)? and
I gathered that ReBirth's damage model will be used. Is that correct?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Linnie on May 01, 2014, 05:44:15 AM
Why doesn't Rebalanced count?

It may not have original Hales but it certainly modifies them, as well as having multiple difficulty settings. I think it's different enough to count as its own.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 01, 2014, 05:50:01 AM
@Legtendga: The changes that I just mentioned are already in R++. As far as damage output, Rebirth ++ will use something similar to Rebirth's A_Explode method, though the attacks are not OHKO.

@Linnie: MrL himself even told me that Rebalanced was more Classes-focused than Boss-focused. I guess that's everyone's opinion there to decide, though.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Linnie on May 01, 2014, 06:28:32 AM
Really, it's a shame you and Stardust are so anti-classes. I'd love to see a merge between R++ and Rebalanced, where the rebalanced classes are added as an option for R++ and the dynamic difficulty is added. ++ already tends to be played more than Rebalanced, so it seems like merging them wouldn't make things 100% class-heavy because such shows that there are plenty of people that like playing it without classes. As long as both a classes and a class-less server were being hosted at the same time, I wouldn't think there'd be any trouble, since there are enough people used to playing without classes that they'd be fine hopping from a classes server to a classless if a few people didn't feel like playing classes.

EDIT: By "it's a shame" I don't mean I'm ashamed of you or anything, it's just that it would be nice if the two modes could converge. I apologize if you read that as being derogatory, I really didn't mean for such.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: MrL1193 on May 01, 2014, 09:36:34 AM
Rebalanced was always focused more on the classes and the changes made to them than on the bosses. (Why else would people continue to play it when ++ had far more to offer in the way of bosses?) The only thing I really added on the boss side of things was the dynamic difficulty, and while I do think the system for adjusting the difficulty kept things fair for the most part, the actual difficulty levels themselves were never fleshed out as much as I would have liked.

Really, I only updated Rebalanced this last time for the sake of adding MM8 classes. I've considered making one more update to improve some classes' gameplay a bit more, but frankly, I've grown tired of trying to fix a set of classes that weren't designed to fight bosses in the first place. The thing is, when you nerf classes like Tengu Man so that it doesn't take half an hour for the boss to catch them, they tend to lose the aspect of their gameplay that makes them fun to play in the first place. The only proper solution if people really want to fight bosses as their favorite Robot Masters would be to build yet another set of RM classes from the ground up, this time with boss combat in mind. I don't think such an endeavor would be outright impossible, but it's beyond my abilities and it would take a very very long time due to the sheer number of Robot Masters.

Anyway, I seem to recall hearing by word of mouth that Stardust tried making some classes specifically for Saxton Hale gameplay. I really hope that's true, because I still firmly believe that this mode would benefit from that kind of variety.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Now the Official Thread for R++'s Bosse
Post by: Hallan Parva on May 01, 2014, 02:42:45 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Rebirth is now dead. I won't go into details why this occurred, but the good news out of all of this is that Rebirth DOES live on in another SH mod...Stardust's ++. In fact, we have agreed to a new name for the new merged mod: Saxton Hale R++ (or Rebirth ++). While the gameplay is primarily the traditional SH gameplay, Rebirth's role in the merge mixes things up still.
wtf NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I hope you're using Rebirth's damage, because that was literally the one thing I enjoyed most of all :ugeek:

OHKOs aren't fun and thousands of Hit Points aren't fun
you get punched in the face and die in one shot if you're not a camping bastard
and then you get to sit around and wait for ten minutes for the match to finish
only for a new round to start and you to immediately get punched in the face and die

also I hope Gilgamesh still has his multiple weapons
VSH++ Gilgamesh makes me an incredibly sad puppy



the one light at the end of the tunnel is that technically this means Genesis Unit was added to VSH Rebirth
but then again, now I have no way of avoiding dreadful Hales such as Remilia Scarlet and the frickin' Mudkip thing

Tails I hope you have a good reason for all of this
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Tfp BreakDown on May 01, 2014, 03:55:09 PM
I feel the same way. Seeing how most of ++'s bosses were lackluster (could say the same about most of the bosses in hale mods but rebirth's rendition makes them feel a bit better) some are despised by most players (mudkip especially) but this could make them feel a bit better to fight against and play as. Also an reason why for the merge?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Ceridran on May 01, 2014, 03:58:08 PM
My complaints were the TF2 based bosses, now we'l have to listen to me complain about the ugly thing known as Mudkip and all the extra lazy ideas I've seen thrown into these mods

I'm not really against the merge in general but I still believe bosses could be done better. Quantity isn't always a quality of it's own.

I just want to throw out all the TF2 and mostly memetic bosses. Yes, I still hate Saxton Hale himself.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: <geminibro> on May 01, 2014, 05:01:48 PM
Sunstar and King H. Harkinian.

Thats what i want to see.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 01, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
I can't reveal everything yet, but I personally believe that quite a bit of what was said on here is rather unfounded.

@SmashBroPlus, sorry, I couldn't convince Star to do the four swords, but his Jump made it, and rather improved.

@Everyone else, yes, we still have to deal with Moodkipz, but the mod now has like 20 bosses...so encountering him will probably be every now and then. Still, I personally intend to put him on the table for removing if Star rejects any boss ideas that I pitch.  :mrgreen:

Part of the reason for the merge was that Star felt that the two of us really should have worked together...plus for me Star is actually a better boss designer than I am, but then I make my input to make sure they are fun to fight. Moodkipz is the only boss that doesn't get my stamp of approval, but I choose not to demand him gone since everything that I wanted from Rebirth made it in. Rather I think that this mod accomplished much more than I was hoping to do with Rebirth, given that Star has more experience on bosses than I do. I do not regret doing the merge, because the quality of the bosses is higher than you guys think.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: IamaMedalHunter on May 02, 2014, 08:02:23 PM
OK ... I've been thinking about Slenderman and it was stuck in my head for 2 months now. I have the feeling the ideas will be rejected but whatever. It may be too complicated to do all of this. And yes, I know Slenderman already exists but here is just a suggestion.


-Name : Slender Man
-Skin : The current one will do
-Theme :
(click to show/hide)

-Descriptions (Warning : ultra long) : Slenderman is chosen. The screen turns dark smoothly and the music stops : silence is now ruling over the darkness. As the message "Collect the 8 pages" shows up on everyone's screen, the survivors are removed their weapons and are given a flashlight. The survivors' job is to collect all the 8 pages, one by one, while avoiding being caught ; and Slenderman's is to prevent these survivors from collecting all the pages by capturing them all.

(click to show/hide)

-Health : Can't be killed unless the 8 pages are picked up (see the "pages" section above)

-Main Attack : As the main attack, he still has these melee tentacles that have the actual cooldown time. Once they touch a player, this player is dead.

-Alt Attack : As the alt attack, Slenderman "shoots" an invisible ball that travels in a straight line at a slow speed and that emits the statics sounds and screen effects. This ball is a ripper and can be stopped by a wall. The downsides of this attack is that once a ball is sent, Slenderman is fully visible, this ball attack has to cooldown for about ... let's say 10 seconds, and has to not move in order for the ball to go further : if Slender moves, the ball disappears. In fact, it's a "stare" attack.

-Super Jump : None ... Go see "Item"

-Item : He also has an item that makes him fully invisible, lets him move freely like if there was noclip, removes the static sounds and effects, makes him unable to attack and immunes him to lights/attacks/stage hazards, all of this for 7-10 seconds (similar to Centaurman's item in Justified Classes). After the item's used, either by time out or by deactivating(by using the item again) , it cooldowns for a rather long time(maybe 25-30 seconds ?), and Slenderman pops up visible while doing this jumpscare piano sound but cannot attack for 1.5 seconds. After this delay, Faceless Man can attack again.

-Rage : Here's the optional rage : When Slenderman has received that much light/got hit or damaged that much, he gains a secondary item to make the map darker and to make occasionally a sudden Slender face on the player's HUD with that wierd static sound. It lasts for ... maximum 45-60 seconds ? Also make sure the Slenderman knows about it when he gets it. This item is removed after it's used.


  OK I'm done. I hope you got bored from reading.  :)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Ceridran on May 02, 2014, 08:09:38 PM
I'm not even going to say anything about what the boss itself but I will say this

he's not Slender

he's just that slender man known as the Slenderman
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: OtakuAlex on May 02, 2014, 09:35:15 PM
Hey, about my Nyarlathotep boss I suggested, over Skype you said you rejected it due to you thinking it was an OC of sorts. Since that was wrong, could you go over it again to see if it's acceptable for the mod?

After you do so, I'll leave it alone no matter which answer is given to its acceptance. Accepted or declined, I'll leave it be from that point on. Though, I'll be honest, I'm stretching it since it wasn't originally a video game character and instead a god from one of HP Lovecraft's works.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Hallan Parva on May 02, 2014, 09:36:02 PM
Quote from: "OtakuAlex"
over Skype you said you rejected it due to you thinking it was an OC of sorts
so does this mean OCs in general are out of the question
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on May 02, 2014, 09:52:40 PM
After the NeoDS incident, the devs are pretty weary of adding anymore of them due to the possible backlash.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: OtakuAlex on May 02, 2014, 10:52:03 PM
Well, Neo is Neo, so I think that being the reason would just be strange, in a sense. I think it's the fact that they're OC's and not actual characters that appeared in games that makes them less likely to be added.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Rebirth++ Official Boss Thread)
Post by: Legtendga on May 03, 2014, 09:28:30 AM
Neo's back in. l:L
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 06, 2014, 03:14:11 AM
I'll have something later for discussions about Saxton Hale Rebirth ++, but for the time being, would anyone be interested in resuming this:

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5565 (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5565)


I really feel that CutmanMike's Mission Mode is still worth playing even after all of the past couple of years or so. It's just disappointing that only four (well, technically five, but the fifth is just a test map), maps were ever created for this, and the Napalm Man map was never released. I really wish this could be resumed. Is there anyone around that would be willing to resume mapping for the mod? I have a Bomb Man boss that I've been wanting to release for quite some time now, but I haven't found a suitable environment for him to make big boom-booms be placed in. And well...I'm not a good mapper, and I've tried before. So I'm willing to make this offer until people get interested in this again: I'll make bosses if people will make maps for them. I'm not entirely confident on weapon making, but I will try to make some if it ends up coming down to me. I would love for this mod to get revived again, as I believe this was one of the best ideas that even new players would enjoy if it continued to get updated. Is there any one that could make some maps to bring this mod back to life?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TheDoc on May 06, 2014, 03:24:10 AM
I took Sparkman a LONG time ago, but I couldn't think of an adequate map design that really screamed "Sparkman! WOOT", let alone one that could measure up to CMM's work. I would love to try again sometime, but right now penultimate tests, papers and other schoolwork are top priority. Maybe during the summer?

Also, you mentioned a Napalmman test map. Was that test map ever publicly released?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 06, 2014, 03:27:23 AM
Summer is fine, too. I just would like interest to come back to this mod. We really need more Coop kind of games. Also, perhaps I could also do a boss rush kind of map if people just want to fight the bosses. Really I would do anything to try to get Mission Mode going again...

EDIT: No, it wasn't, Doc. At least not to my knowledge.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on May 06, 2014, 03:35:51 AM
As much as I'd outright love to help, I dunno how much help I'd inevitably be.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: Rozark on May 06, 2014, 03:54:11 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I'll make bosses if people will make maps for them.

The temptations. However I feel swamped with side projects right now (Smashbros/Rozpack Expansion I/Secret Thing/Under Siege if things get going again successfully/Let's not talk about 4mi/yet another secret project) but lack motivation.

Don't outright exclude me though; just note that I'm somewhat interested.
As a side note: If interest in a GOOD version of invasion ever comes up or if someone decides to do things for that Domination mode, I also have interest in those.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: Linnie on May 06, 2014, 11:46:12 AM
Man, I'd love to try to help, but I have no experience with the classic DOOM-ish co-op maps. I would try, though, once I finished the map I'm currently working on. After all, I can get feedback on it if there's something wrong.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: OtakuAlex on May 06, 2014, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Summer is fine, too. I just would like interest to come back to this mod. We really need more Coop kind of games. Also, perhaps I could also do a boss rush kind of map if people just want to fight the bosses. Really I would do anything to try to get Mission Mode going again...


Yes, we really do need more co-op and such. And Mission Mode going again? Nothing in this post is a no to me. I shall sum this up with a memetic gif.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: Hallan Parva on May 06, 2014, 04:21:54 PM
I'm not going to promise anything but I can tell you that Magnet Dood and Caprice have been working on Wood Man SP for quite a while now


you could probably talk to them about other maps / bosses that need to be made
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 06, 2014, 05:12:45 PM
Quote from: "SmashBroPlusB"
I'm not going to promise anything but I can tell you that Magnet Dood and Caprice have been working on Wood Man SP for quite a while now


you could probably talk to them about other maps / bosses that need to be made


I was wondering about that, cause they mentioned Wood Man last night, but I couldn't get anything out of them. But if this is really true, then I can make the Wood Man boss my next project if they're close to finishing the map. I'll probably also need weapon ideas, since well...Mission Mode has four classes (and doing more than that would be overkill).
Title: SHAMELESS PLUG SHAMELESS PLUG
Post by: Hallan Parva on May 06, 2014, 05:25:15 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Mission Mode has four classes (and doing more than that would be overkill)
excuse me good sir
I take great offense to that (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5642)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 06, 2014, 06:05:32 PM
I purposely avoided mentioning that mod...do you know how much more work it would take to make three more weapons (Doc Robot is easy since he just uses the special attack of the bosses)? Not to mention there's also MMX Classes, which I never played since I was kind of opposed to them...to me having the X classes are out of place.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: OtakuAlex on May 06, 2014, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I purposely avoided mentioning that mod...do you know how much more work it would take to make three more weapons (Doc Robot is easy since he just uses the special attack of the bosses)? Not to mention there's also MMX Classes, which I never played since I was kind of opposed to them...to me having the X classes are out of place.

They would be more in-place if the one who made the co-op edit bothered changing the stages and bosses to match MMX.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: Korby on May 07, 2014, 11:47:53 PM
the entire story of the mod was that you traveled back in time to help defend against wily(it's not the first time x has traveled back in time, either)

creating new maps/bosses for these things requires a lot of effort, and if she didn't want to do that, then she didn't need to. if all max wanted to do was change the player classes, then that's fine.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: OtakuAlex on May 08, 2014, 12:33:28 AM
Ah, that makes much more sense. Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 11, 2014, 05:49:26 AM
So what was said earlier about a stage being developed for Mission Mode is true. Dood is leading a team to make his own version of Mission Mode, but he is planning on a different set of RMs to start off with. I won't go into detail about that, but I will just say that my time with Saxton Hale is continuing to pay off, as I am making the enemy and boss behavior for the mod, and also making the new weapons for the original four (we may talk about allowing the Strength in Number classes in this later). Dood will have the final say on my progress, but I think I am doing pretty well so far as a coder. So I guess Dood will be the one to announce progress on the mod so far, unless he doesn't intend to start his own thread.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Back to brainstorming...)
Post by: Magnet Dood on May 11, 2014, 04:54:29 PM
Sorry to pop in like this, but expect any progress to posted in the Screenshots Thread and the Fanmade Co-Op Maps thread in WIP.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 21, 2014, 04:43:38 AM
So while I was still in the mood for enemy development, I figured that I would take a look at all of the enemies from Mega Man 1 (and also Powered-Up), and see what enemies haven't been made yet. For stage enemies, there actually aren't that many left (including Powered-Up, I counted 7 enemies, which two are from different games, Crazy Cannon and Shield Attacker). I figure as a side project to Dood's Mission Mode that I would go ahead and finish designing enemies from Mega Man 1 (I got to design another enemy anyway for RM #1 in Dood's Mission Mode). Bosses will take a little longer, especially since I don't have their intro graphics, but I may consider coding all of the other 6 Robot Masters as well (Mike did Cut Man, and I DID technically finish Bomb Man, though he's missing graphics). So coming this summer will be all enemy resources for the first game for those thinking about tackling a stage from the first game for Mission Mode or other projects. At least regular enemies have somewhat easy behavior to mimic in 3D. So, if this interests anyone, I'll keep a list on the first post regarding my current progress on enemies from the first game (and maybe from other games later). As I said before, I'd love to see more COOP/Invasion stages made. Getting enemy and boss behavior out of the way leaves only map design and possibly weapon design to make a full stage, so that might help.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 22, 2014, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
I'd love to see more COOP/Invasion stages made.

That makes two of us. i wish i could help in any way. wait does Zandronum support lua scripting? that's how Sonic Robo Blast 2's getting by after reaching version 2.1 with new levels and a few new bosses. I might be capable of helping somewhat with this. but if not I understand.

I hope that you or someone capable of doing so also pays a bit of homage to Super Adventure Rockman. like having 3 consecutive levels each having a few robot masters per level and a battle with Ra Thor and Ra Devil at the end. i mean it apparently did well enough for Ra Moon to be a prominent character in the archie comics. so why not? =)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 22, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
As far as I know, Zandronum doesn't support lua scripting, but you might be good with ACS, since it mostly is basic programming. As far as your desire to see SAR, the closest you got so far is the Ra Thor Rebirth boss in Saxton Hale R++, since his attacks are directly based off of Ra Thor in SAR (Rebirth meaning that his movements originally were in my version of SH that I was making until Stardust and I joined forces).
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 23, 2014, 12:19:08 PM
Well i'd even settle for Ra Moon and his 2 robots to have some part in V5/6/7 as an extra set of bosses like we got here in V4 with the Genesis Unit.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 26, 2014, 03:35:44 AM
Lately I just cannot help myself...I just feel that recent development (and for me, personal success on enemy development), on Dood's Mission Mode has really made me crave more Coop/Invasion type mods, so I may attempt to get something started in addition to my work so far with Dood, despite the fact people may question my map design. I've been looking through my notes again regarding Mega Man 1 enemies, and we are just so close to completely finishing MM1/MMPU. I know I just said that a few posts ago, but my craving for more Cooperative mods against enemies and bosses from the Mega Man games just continues to grow the more I code. So, although I made a call a little while back for map makers to help out (and I still would greatly appreciate it if people did), but since another weak area of mine is sprite work, I've got some small favors to ask regarding graphics. A lot of enemies already have their graphics thanks to CutmanMike and Magnet/Star Dood, but a few enemies still remain. I need sprite rotations for the missing enemies, and for bosses, I'm mostly asking for jumping sprites and intro sprites (though I think when Time Man and Oil Man use their specials, those also have their own sprites). So, here's the list, and if anyone is willing to make some sprite rotations, let me know. Don't worry about enemy coding; I can take care of that.

Missing Enemies:

Bombomb (though I THINK I may just use the same sprite for all of its frames)
Crazy Cannon (getting this also would knock off an enemy in the MM2 list in the future)
Shield Attacker (almost would do this except I'm not sure what the back of the shield would look like)

I did actually have a few others on this list, but I discovered animations for them in the core, so I'll use those.


Missing Bosses:

Bomb Man (he actually is finished coding-wise, but otherwise I am missing jumping and intro graphics for all bosses on this list)
Guts Man (he was partially started coding-wise)
Ice Man
Fire Man
Time Man
Oil Man


I do not have plans at this time to add fortress bosses. If this goes well enough I'll make a list for MM2, though I know that one will be quite large. But hey, all that will remain is weapons and actually making the maps for the RMs. As for me, I may do like an Invasion-type series or else do an enemy/boss rush once the MM1 stuff is finished. I hope people can volunteer some time to do some graphics, as that would help me GREATLY.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 26, 2014, 05:13:11 AM
I would. but i need to know... what would be a good program for me to use specifically for spriting? I also want to know this incase I can't get someone to make a skin out of my avatar. XD
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: PotatoStrike on May 26, 2014, 01:44:43 PM
Tails, you mean... Make a mission mode?
There's actualy a Mission Mode that is in Beta V1C.
I think you can expend it.
Just ask Mike, it seems it's him that made Mission Mode.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 26, 2014, 01:54:52 PM
I think he already knows. but he's doing it because Mike already said he's not working on it. and making a fresh new experience for it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: PotatoStrike on May 26, 2014, 02:52:12 PM
Thank you BlackEmperorJet. Tails, what robots will you put in?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on May 26, 2014, 03:17:30 PM
Crazy Cannon (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1562) and at least (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2485) three different (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1657) Shield Attackers (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1509) already exist in the form of skins.

I would always check the skin list before asking for enemy sprites.  A fair number of Mega Man enemies have been converted into skins.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: Magnet Dood on May 26, 2014, 05:15:12 PM
Disregard my Shield Attacker, the link's been down for years and it wasn't very high quality anyway.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (New Project Idea)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 26, 2014, 07:46:51 PM
It did not even occur to me to check the skin list, as I had forgotten that originally I had a Shield Attacker skin as well (though I no longer do...I guess I removed it since I don't see people use it, like most of the skins I have). So that just reduces the MM1 enemy list to the Bombomb, which I think I'll take care of that one anyway. So that just leaves the bosses of MM1 and MMPU left before a game can be completely crossed off. So for now I will finish making the MM1/MMPU enemies and probably put them into a file that people can download for use in their projects and such. While I cannot test on my end if the enemies will spawn (even Mission Mode's regular enemies don't spawn for me offline if I go directly to their stage instead of going through the HUB map first, unless I spawn them via script), I will make it to where all that map makers need to do is just add the enemies to their maps. So on the first post I will have a place where the current progress of enemy/boss resource development will be mentioned, as well as eventually Dropbox links to resources that I have finished. So expect some changes to the first post of the topic soon.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on May 27, 2014, 03:25:06 PM
Tails, does your shield attacker is finished (sprites)?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: Gummywormz on May 27, 2014, 10:54:04 PM
Feel free to use / enhance any enemies from QInvasion or 2ndCoop.

As a note / warning: if someone is going to make another invasion mod, it has to be more than just vanilla invasion. There is really no incentive when playing plain invasion. There needs to be something more like defense points and / or a shop. Doom invasion gets around this by being more fast paced or scary / tense, which is not easily accomplished in MM8BDM.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: ProjectHazoid on May 28, 2014, 02:36:37 AM
Perhaps something like the Space Train map from LMSGames?

A Tower Defense Mode of sorts, You are playing as a Fortress Boss (Something along the lines of Yellow Devil, Mecha Dragon, Doc Robot Team, Ra Moon w/ Ra Thor and Shin Yellow Devil) and must prevent attackers, the other team of players from reaching their goal.

The Bosses are powerful classes that must protect something like an exit, or a Super computer (Protecting Yourself in Ra Moon's case) and has access to the ability to periodically summon enemies, activate traps, or place obstacles to help fend off the attacking team. The Maps could determine who the Boss will be.

The Attacking Team Classes are made up of our Metal Heroes: Mega Man, Proto Man, Bass, Duo, etc. Players would have either a time limit or a limited amount of lines (or an entire pool of 'respawns' for the team a la Master of Puppets). Perhaps a Screw System could allow Auto to appear on the map and allow players to buy items and upgrades.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 28, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
That actually sounds like a cool idea. but we'd need sprites for bosses like Mecha Dragon since there isn't a skin for that boss at all.

Now the whole "Auto" system would have to be something done in the map itself. like occasionally have checkpoints with Auto waiting to sell you items. and to choose an item you just stand on a panel and the item comes out if you have enough screws.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: Ukiyama on May 28, 2014, 03:56:44 PM
Quote from: "BlackEmperorJet"
That actually sounds like a cool idea. but we'd need sprites for bosses like Mecha Dragon since there isn't a skin for that boss at all.

http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=981  :ugeek:
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on May 28, 2014, 04:24:24 PM
Crap... I need to get more in touch with the skin list. it's been forever since i last checked it. But it would probably be best for it to be shown flying even when idle. and Mecha Dragon wasn't exactly the hardest boss unless he's suggesting we add the platforming segment before hand which might be a bad idea.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 30, 2014, 02:58:50 AM
Hey guys, the enemies for the first game and Powered-Up are finished, though I do still need CutmanMike's permission to use the enemies he made...or I may have to reproduce said enemies, and I'd rather not do that. I do need help with boss graphics, though. I need jumping and intro sprites for Bomb, Guts, Ice, Fire, Time, and Oil, and some of these RMs also had sprites when performing their special attacks in Powered-Up, so if I got any help with these, that would be very helpful and would allow me to wrap up the first game (though updates to the enemies would come as reports come in). I want to finish the bosses for MM1/MMPU before I move on to enemies in 2. The first game is almost done!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy Resource Development Start!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on May 31, 2014, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
The first game is almost done!
Good! Do you need help with the maps?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Roboenza spreads again?)
Post by: TailsMK4 on May 31, 2014, 11:19:22 PM
*Reposted since Roboenza Epidemic is now V1*

Any help with maps would be great.

I have put my own twists into the Roboenza mod from CutmanMike, and with a quick testing session that occurred earlier, I have fixed some things up, and I think this is ready for the public for good now.

http://www.best-ever.org/download?file= ... micv1a.wad (http://www.best-ever.org/download?file=roboenzaepidemicv1a.wad)

Check the first post for all of the changes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Roboenza spreads again?)
Post by: Dr. Freeman on June 01, 2014, 03:26:01 AM
Oh boy I sure love being team killed by pogo sticks, bombs, and atomic fire.

I really like the different gimmicks put on the infected, it's super neat. However, the favor is incredibly skewed in the infected's favor because they have all of these neat things and the survivors have 3 W Tanks to take out 1100 HP zombies, fast ones, and ones that can jump super high. It seems pretty unbalanced.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Roboenza spreads again?)
Post by: OtakuAlex on June 01, 2014, 03:42:04 AM
I played this on the server earlier, it was really fun. However, two things really bother me; it's possible to TK due to how things were set up if you pick good enough weapons and the zombies seem really unstoppable at times.

For the TK'ing, it's mostly Sakugarne and other high-damage + high-speed type weapons.....Otherwise, they get healed after the hit. You should set it up like it was in Saxton Hale where survivors were completely immune to normal weapons.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Roboenza spreads again?)
Post by: Dr. Crasger on June 01, 2014, 04:01:21 AM
Good to see Roboenza back.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Roboenza spreads again?)
Post by: Messatsu on June 01, 2014, 07:04:54 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
- Messatsu mostly for inspiration and the alt-attack (I know you said you wanted to handle Rage Roboenza yourself...but a lot of people miss Roboenza, especially the original, which this is based off of, so I did it anyway. Not meant to be competition to Rage or Swarm, but if you want the Rage Roboenza elements removed from the mod, I will do that.)
Naw, I don't mind.  So long as credit is given it's fine.  Also, since this is bring unique elements to the table, it's a nice additional spin to the whole Roboenza formula.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy/Boss Resource Update)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 08, 2014, 06:52:35 AM
Quite a few updates to talk about, so I'll start chronologically:

- I will actually be forced to take a break from playing the game for a little while after Monday. I am about to have another hernia surgery, though a small one this time. I will probably be out for a couple of weeks or so, but the pain I will feel after the surgery will make doing something active like MM8BDM likely unbearable, so I will be doing small things like working on current projects. I will still check Cutstuff and Skype messages and perhaps pop up in a server every now and then to chat.

- Either during or after the recovery, I will work on v1c of Roboenza Epidemic, changing the infects a bit so not only will you know what type of infect you are, but the infects themselves will feel a bit different. Most of them may get an alt-fire to help catch the slippery players, though the players themselves will also get boosted in some way in v1c. The balance at this time is still leaning heavily on infects. Unless something comes up or I get an idea worthy of a major update, v1c will probably be the last update for a little while, especially since Coop is slowly getting my attention back.

- Upon hearing of another Coop project in the works, I have decided to put the rest of the RMs from Mega Man 1/Mega Man Powered-Up on the back burner for the time being (still waiting on graphics...may end up doing them myself later), and my focus will be shifting to Mega Man 2, since I was requested to provide the enemies and bosses from that game for the project. Also, I got the ok from Mike to use his enemies, so officially the enemies (not bosses), from Mega Man 1/Powered-Up are complete, so once the bosses are finished, I shall put together that resource file for the first game. In the meantime, I have put together an image showing the enemies and bosses that have been completed, though at this time the image is still a WIP, since I have content from other games to put on it. For now my work will be going towards getting 2's enemies and bosses finished, while still seeing if I can get help on 1. So the thread for the next day or so will likely get some more updates as I find out what I need to get done for Mega Man 2.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy/Boss Resource Update)
Post by: Dr. Crasger on June 08, 2014, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Quite a few updates to talk about, so I'll start chronologically:

- I will actually be forced to take a break from playing the game for a little while after Monday. I am about to have another hernia surgery, though a small one this time. I will probably be out for a couple of weeks or so, but the pain I will feel after the surgery will make doing something active like MM8BDM likely unbearable.

Ouch, mate.

Well, best of luck, and may you recover soon and well.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy/Boss Resource Update)
Post by: Magnet Dood on June 08, 2014, 01:14:06 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
Upon hearing of another Coop project in the works, I have decided to put the rest of the RMs from Mega Man 1/Mega Man Powered-Up on the back burner for the time being (still waiting on graphics...may end up doing them myself later), and my focus will be shifting to Mega Man 2, since I was requested to provide the enemies and bosses from that game for the project. Also, I got the ok from Mike to use his enemies, so officially the enemies (not bosses), from Mega Man 1/Powered-Up are complete, so once the bosses are finished, I shall put together that resource file for the first game. In the meantime, I have put together an image showing the enemies and bosses that have been completed, though at this time the image is still a WIP, since I have content from other games to put on it. For now my work will be going towards getting 2's enemies and bosses finished, while still seeing if I can get help on 1. So the thread for the next day or so will likely get some more updates as I find out what I need to get done for Mega Man 2.

I finished all of Air Man's enemy sprites (including Air Man himself) a while ago- I'll hit you up with the sprite sheet later. Might see what other enemies I could do, as well.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Enemy/Boss Resource Update)
Post by: ScrapHeap on June 29, 2014, 12:09:42 AM
I hope to see this on servers eventually. It looks really fun.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 20, 2014, 05:41:36 PM
Well, I guess it's time for me to unveil a new project in the works...and I'll start off with a screenshot:

(click to show/hide)

Introducing...the Mega Man World project! This is a full fledged project that aims to stay true to the original spirit of CMM's MMSP mod while adding some additional features...at the same time, any of the future content in this mod can be freely used by map and mod makers in their own projects! I will need quite a bit of help to make this a reality, but since this project is building off of the work I had finished for my enemy resource project, I'm more than halfway done (minus maps), to the first official release (once Mega Man 1 is finished)! Be sure to check the first post often, as the post will be updated when progress is made or OPEN projects are claimed. I hope people can offer some time to help out, because the more help I can get, the sooner this project can become a reality! I certainly would love to see this happen so that people wanting to make Coop/Invasion/whatever content have resources available to them, and those that played MMSP a lot even now would have new stages to explore!

In case any one wonders, yes, the hub area will be an edit of Lego's hub in MMSPSIN, but hours have been spent just to make that thing look the way it is atm. As for what Classes can be used by this, I haven't determined that yet, but if weapon makers are up for it, I hope to include compatibility for MMSPSIN and MMXSP classes as well (other classes not based on coop will NOT be supported).
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on September 20, 2014, 06:10:45 PM
It could be awesoooome ! omg.....I think, we need more map of MMSP ! Good luck with this project! :D
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 20, 2014, 10:23:03 PM
OOOOOOOOOOO..... I have both MMSPSIN, and MMXSP... And you said this would be compatible with both, why there's a limit on selectable single player classes for this engine, I'll never understand, but I can dream.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 21, 2014, 02:59:13 AM
Quote from: "coolcat7022"
OOOOOOOOOOO..... I have both MMSPSIN, and MMXSP... And you said this would be compatible with both, why there's a limit on selectable single player classes for this engine, I'll never understand, but I can dream.

Right now I'm only planning for the original classes in CMM's MMSP, but if there's enough interest to include MMSPSIN and/or MMXSP, then I would figure out a way to make the classes themselves able to work in Mega Man World.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: ScrapHeap on September 21, 2014, 03:30:07 AM
Well, a 'cool' thing to do would be give us a sorta thing where ALL of the robot masters from 1 are classes, and we each get our own seperate weapons n stuff

As perhaps an option
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 21, 2014, 12:05:42 PM
Or... have extra classes in a Powered Up style based on RMs defeated with any class's default weapon, like the Bass Buster, or the Mega Buster, ETC.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: ScrapHeap on September 21, 2014, 04:38:41 PM
You mean making it a straight-up port of Powered Up to the Engine?

That would be awesome.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 21, 2014, 04:43:21 PM
Somewhat like that, but you start with the normal MMSP classes as well, and you get different stories and hubs based on the class you choose, and in multiplayer, the host chooses story, which in turn chooses hub and which classes are available.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on September 23, 2014, 03:01:42 PM
Oooooh... This promise a good game for who that want it! Waiting for this project since 1 month!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Russel on September 23, 2014, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
(click to show/hide)
Hi Light's Lab SIN.

I wouldn't recommend including that select screen unless it uses static screenshots...it tends to lag for most players [I never experienced this problem myself, but eh.]
Oh, and back up that camera bit.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 23, 2014, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: "Lego"
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
(click to show/hide)
Hi Light's Lab SIN.

I wouldn't recommend including that select screen unless it uses static screenshots...it tends to lag for most players [I never experienced this problem myself, but eh.]
Oh, and back up that camera bit.


Yeah, I decided to use your lab since I liked the additions you made to the hub. I never experienced the lag myself, but it might be best in the end to just grab some pictures of the maps and use them as textures.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Korby on September 23, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
At least MMXSP compatibility is simpler 'cause of canon attacks for most of the cast.
Good luck with your thing! Making a completely new MMSP campaign takes a lot of effort; Mike hasn't even done it yet!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 23, 2014, 09:11:46 PM
But, how will the different games be done? In a chapter system similar to core MM8BDM? With different sets of RMs all over the place? Or just with a unique mechanic?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 23, 2014, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: "coolcat7022"
But, how will the different games be done? In a chapter system similar to core MM8BDM? With different sets of RMs all over the place? Or just with a unique mechanic?


In the future, you'll first need to beat each of the MM1 stages once, then beat the stage that gets unlocked when you do so, and when that stage gets cleared, you'll enable the option to take on the MM2 RMs by choosing "Next" on the screen. You will be able to revisit stages you've beat, and if you want all of the unlockables with the game, you'll want to do so. Clearing missions will unlock bonus content, such as the stage I just mentioned before, but you might get other things too...
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 23, 2014, 11:38:15 PM
So first off, like some of the sweetest things in life, this is gonna take a ton of work to achieve. I wish you luck!

Secondly, could I try coding Sparkman? I got nowhere with my map (the reason being I got so frustrated coding one of the enemies the way I wanted that I just quit. Surprisingly enough, he's finished now, but I had lost all the drive I had by the time I finished him that it just died.), but coding one boss is a lot less work than finishing a whole stage, and since you have awhile before you reach Sparkman, I decided to try.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 23, 2014, 11:55:54 PM
Okay, but could I do some weapon idea work? Specifically, coming up with weapons for some classes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 24, 2014, 12:22:18 AM
Quote from: "Lego"
Oh, and back up that camera bit.
The reason that they couldn't back it up before was because the camera was up against the wall.

Still, I have to agree with this. It was tolerable in MMSPSIN, but with the new bosses/"prev/next" features being added, I think you should capture the whole Select & Preview screen, especially since you're revamping the map anyways.

EDIT: Quick question: when players go to different chapters (as in MM1, MM2 not Cut Man, Guts Man), how will the weapon be handled? I see three options:
1.) Take away all of the weapons not yet unlocked in the chapter.
2.) LET 'EM KEEP ALL THE FRIGGIN WEAPONS WHY NOT?
3.) Something along the lines of a customizable loadout of 2-4 weapons regardless of chapter.
You theoretically could combine Options 1 & 3, but that's not very canon is it?

The biggest issue (more like inconvenience) I see with options 2-3 is putting in all those damage factors. Depending on how big this gets, you'd have to put 4 DFs for every boss, and that's not including the potential extra classes. Personally, I think option 3 would encourage strategy in picking weaponry, especially if there was a server variable that lets the host change the # of weapons a player can have.

Anyways, I'm just gonna leave the DFs up to you for Sparkman because I don't know if you have a preference for them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 24, 2014, 02:11:40 AM
Whew, actually quite a bit to answer now, but hey, I appreciate the support everyone! Getting MM1 finished to me is reasonable enough since really I just need help with maps and weapon design. MM2 and further on will be a different story, but better mentally to set a much easier goal first before the work really increases. Now for the individual responses:

Quote from: "TheDoc"
So first off, like some of the sweetest things in life, this is gonna take a ton of work to achieve. I wish you luck!

Secondly, could I try coding Sparkman? I got nowhere with my map (the reason being I got so frustrated coding one of the enemies the way I wanted that I just quit. Surprisingly enough, he's finished now, but I had lost all the drive I had by the time I finished him that it just died.), but coding one boss is a lot less work than finishing a whole stage, and since you have awhile before you reach Sparkman, I decided to try.


Sure, go ahead if you want. Typically I model my bosses after the way Mike did his in MMSP. The RMs have their usual attacks from the games, but at the halfway mark (in MMWorld bosses may or may not need that much health reduced to use specials, depending on difficulty...), they use a much more effective attack, like Needle Man pulling off his twisting attack or Toad Man flooding the arena enough so he can perform surprise hops. So aside from modeling Spark Man's original behavior in the games, the only thing I require is that any bosses made need some kind of special attack to make sure bosses are a little more unpredictable.

Also, though my focus is MM1, if a combo of stages, enemies, bosses, and weapons from another game are finished, I'll include them in the next big update, so for example if Spark Man is all finished by the time MM1 is finished, I'll include Spark Man as a selectable stage/boss in the update (after all, Heat Man, Needle Man, and Toad Man will be selectable since they're done already). Either way, I'd like the enemies you did design at some point, unless you end up getting your motivation back and try to finish his stage, in which case I can wait until it's ready.


Quote from: "coolcat7022"
Okay, but could I do some weapon idea work? Specifically, coming up with weapons for some classes.

Rather I would encourage weapon ideas, since aside from the Mega Man class, I got no ideas for Proto Man, Bass, or Roll (and that list will grow even more if MMSPSIN and MMXSP should be supported...I'll let the community decide that). I do have people interested in weapon design at least, so really it comes down to finding mappers for the project.


Quote from: "TheDoc"
Quote from: "Lego"
Oh, and back up that camera bit.
The reason that they couldn't back it up before was because the camera was up against the wall.

Still, I have to agree with this. It was tolerable in MMSPSIN, but with the new bosses/"prev/next" features being added, I think you should capture the whole Select & Preview screen, especially since you're revamping the map anyways.

EDIT: Quick question: when players go to different chapters (as in MM1, MM2 not Cut Man, Guts Man), how will the weapon be handled? I see three options:
1.) Take away all of the weapons not yet unlocked in the chapter.
2.) LET 'EM KEEP ALL THE FRIGGIN WEAPONS WHY NOT?
3.) Something along the lines of a customizable loadout of 2-4 weapons regardless of chapter.
You theoretically could combine Options 1 & 3, but that's not very canon is it?

The biggest issue (more like inconvenience) I see with options 2-3 is putting in all those damage factors. Depending on how big this gets, you'd have to put 4 DFs for every boss, and that's not including the potential extra classes. Personally, I think option 3 would encourage strategy in picking weaponry, especially if there was a server variable that lets the host change the # of weapons a player can have.

Anyways, I'm just gonna leave the DFs up to you for Sparkman because I don't know if you have a preference for them.


1. I can just make that room a little larger so the camera can be pushed back that far.
2. I won't go into too many details just yet since I need to fully test the idea I received to see if it works out, but I'm trying an idea very similar to option 3. I might be able to code a way so that you can select your loadout the way Wily Wars did.
3. Damagefactors, yeah, that list is going to get huge, so I might do element damagefactors instead of listing every single weapon.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 24, 2014, 02:32:13 AM
I can probably help come up with ideas for weapons if you want the assistance. Problem is coming up with weapons for each boss that aren't similar to other weapons too much.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 24, 2014, 10:40:22 AM
Here's an idea you might want to use for Bomb Man:
Bomb Sticker
Fires a small round black projectile with an arch, if it hits something, rather than damage/explode, it sticks to whatever it landed on, a second press will detonate at no ammo cost, similar to Remote Mine in how you explode it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 24, 2014, 05:10:12 PM
Oh yea, that reminds me that I had an idea for Roll's Guts Man weapon.
Guts Digger/Item Digger
It's like Super Arm except for the fact that Roll digs up an item rather than a massive block. You wouldn't have to create FX for every item; instead, you could simply have her dig up and throw a rock (idk if it would look different than the original), preferably affected by gravity. When the rock dies, it randomly spawns a small/big weapon/life energy pickup, and rarely an E-Tank.

EDIT:
Quote from: "coolcat7022"
Bomb Sticker
Fires a small round black projectile with an arch, if it hits something, rather than damage/explode, it sticks to whatever it landed on, a second press will detonate at no ammo cost, similar to Remote Mine in how you explode it.

That sounds more like a Crash Bomber-esque weapon. If anything, that would be a variation of Crash Man's weapon.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 24, 2014, 06:54:04 PM
I'm thinking "since DOS likely won't be in this whole project" you could probably use the weapons for some of the alternate weapons.
Nuclear Detonator for Bass in place of Hyper Bomb, rapid explosion that deals lots of damage and can be remote detonated, but has little ammo.
Sonic Wave for Protoman when you finally get to Shade Man
Force Field for Roll from Elec Man (as Elec Man has it in Power Fighters)
Bit Cannon for Protoman from Elec Man
Water Shooter for Bass from Wave Man
Oil Stream for Protoman from Oil.
Blade Launcher for Bass from either Shadow or Blade
and Torch Arm for someone from Fire.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 24, 2014, 07:07:04 PM
Hmm.. I guess "Bomb Sticker" Could be renamed "Crash/Clash Clinger"
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 24, 2014, 08:10:18 PM
Quote from: "coolcat7022"
Hmm.. I guess "Bomb Sticker" Could be renamed "Crash/Clash Clinger"
Also that is exactly how Crash Bomb worked in Power Battles, so it fits a weapon for crash better.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 24, 2014, 08:13:04 PM
I'm pretty sure it didn't fire in an arch, though correct me if i'm wrong, but Crash/Clash Clinger it is!
Title: it sounds horrifying
Post by: Ceridran on September 24, 2014, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: "coolcat7022"
I'm pretty sure it didn't fire in an arch, though correct me if i'm wrong, but Crash/Clash Clinger it is!

Crash > Clash, unless you really want the Clash Cringer.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 24, 2014, 08:18:47 PM
XD, Clash Cringer is the filename for the projectile's sprite, whilst the wep is called Crash Clinger.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 24, 2014, 08:34:42 PM
In Power Battles that is how it fired, just no remote action. Kind of like how in both Atomic Fire was more like Heat's version.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 24, 2014, 08:45:41 PM
Okay, so I guess the projectile will have to be an orange, and flashing ball instead of a small black sphere.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on September 26, 2014, 04:05:53 AM
I think I have a few ideas for weapons for other classes.
Air Man + Bass = Gatling Gust
Fires off a strong gusts of wind that has a somewhat short range but when hitting enemies it knocks them back and does ripper damage to them for 2 to 4 seconds.
Metal Man + Proto Man = Mobile Gear(Based off of Shovel Knight)
Throws a small platform with a gear under it that once jumped on, begins to move in the direction it was fired. It hops a small height when reaching edges and can be used on top of spikes. It can be rode on or can be sent charging towards enemies. When it hits a wall it can be used as an extra platform for a few seconds before exploding.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Trillster on September 27, 2014, 01:23:36 AM
Alright, so I went ahead and made some Crash Bomb weapons. I used coolcat7022's idea for Clash Clinger, a shotgun-like Crash Scatter, and a spinning Crash Bomb Nuke. The Crash Scatter is basically just a shotgun + crash bombs. The Crash Nuke sets down a marker and after a few seconds, it starts firing a spiral of crash bombs. However, I'm not sure if Tails will use these weapons.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on September 28, 2014, 02:03:44 PM
Tails is barely even active in the Saxton Hale department. I personally find it somewhat rude to complain about it here when he is trying to start a new project. Stardust's Workshop (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6160) is where you should redirect your comments regarding Hale, as that is where the current versions of it reside.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: BookofDobson on September 28, 2014, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Tails is barely even active in the Saxton Hale department. I personally find it somewhat rude to complain about it here when he is trying to start a new project. Stardust's Workshop (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6160) is where you should redirect your comments regarding Hale, as that is where the current versions of it reside.

Ohhh... Sorry and thank you
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 28, 2014, 02:33:49 PM
Quote from: "Rozark Kyouko"
...but I'm too busy being curious on if Megaman World is actually going to be finished or its just another pipe dream.


I'm assembling a team soon so that some work can get done, but I definitely do not blame you for the mindset you currently have on this, since projects like this have a high rate of failure, sadly. I think the first goal I've set is reasonable, considering aside from coding a few bosses, the only big things remaining are maps and weapons for Proto, Bass, and Roll. What I hope to accomplish in the next month or so is meeting any reasonable expectations veterans like you have for a new ambitious project. I'm even willing to attempt some mapping myself so this goal is met, since the project needs mappers badly. I'm already revising the hub map area anyway, so I might as well do some more mapping, since I've got others on the team that can also do coding.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Max on September 28, 2014, 04:40:29 PM
Just a heads-up, coop mapping is pretty hard to balance the length of the stages and make things interesting, whether its linear or nonlinear

Make sure you test every map about 16 times to eliminate some of the areas where people could snipe enemies without the enemies being able to hit back, because there were a lot of those when I made my maps
And above all GOOD LUCK because I'm pretty sure a lot of people want this to work out
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: CHAOS_FANTAZY on September 28, 2014, 05:59:13 PM
Okay, so I've talked about writing down the prevailing themes of each character's weapons (Just so it's formally written down somewhere), and I think I'm just about ready to go at it.

Vanilla MMSP
Mega Man:  Vanilla copy weapons.  Makes sense, since he's designed to be the simple, easy-to-play character.

Proto Man:  As I know it, Proto Man's weapons are basically "Vanilla Weapons:  More Different Edition."  Though they do, in the end, achieve the same objective as Mega Man's, the behavior of the projectile is changed in some way, effectively changing the way in which it is used.  If there is a different edition of the same weapon, he is probably the one to receive it (e.g., he would probably get Pharaoh Wave from Pharaoh-Man and Stone Hand from Stone-Man).

Bass:  I hear people refer to Bass as the melee class, but I think it is most accurate to call him the berserker class—by which I mean, his weapons will generally consist of something high-risk, high-reward.  True to Bass's character, his weapons should be about getting up in their face and dealing tons of damage.

Roll:  Roll is, predictably, the support class.  Though her weapons aren't quite as strong in comparison to the others in the group, she can fire them from a safe distance, and often times they can really help to wear down a foe before her allies move in for the kill.

MMSP:  Strength in Numbers
Doc Robot:  Given his character theme of emulating Robot Masters more directly, Doc Robot's weapons can be a bit more fanciful than the others.  You'll note that all his weapons thus far directly emulate the boss's rage attack.  While it would be a neat recurring element, I don't think it's entirely necessary.

Dark-Man:  All of Dark-Man's weapons focus upon his shield and alter it in some way, either through replacing the satellites or through rings of projectiles.  You'll note that they also all drain weapon energy over time (Some so quickly it makes me ponder how useful they really are).

Duo:  As far as I can tell, Duo is all about raw power.  Unlike Bass, however, he's more of a tank than a berserker (Defense instead of speed).  Since his weapons don't strike me as being unified in another way, I could be wrong about this.

Fake-Man:  Fake-Man's weaponry revolves around taking mechanics from actual guns (Six chambers, reloading, overheating, etc).  In order to compensate for his unique gimmick, his attacks are often faster and/or more powerful than a "regular" weapon.

MMXSP
X:  X takes vanilla weapons from his original series as his copy weapons—which is going to be a problem in the long run, because there are fewer total Mega Man X copyweps than there are Mega Man Classic copyweps.  Do with this what you will.

Zero:  Zero's copy weapons, like X's, are derived from his special attacks from X4 onward—which will be an even larger problem than X's copy weapons, since he has even less source material.

Axl:  ...To be honest, I can't even derive a theme from Axl's weaponry beyond "The RM is now a gun."

Vile:  Vile's gimmick, obviously, is the whole shtick where he gets three interchangeable weapons from each RM.  Each of these weapons appear to be very powerful even alone, let alone when the player uses them in tandem—but the MMXSP classes are stupidly overpowered anyway, so *Shrug*

I know some people feel like this stuff is really obvious, though, so I guess I'll go ahead and bring something else:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Max on September 28, 2014, 08:42:08 PM
Quote from: "CHAOS_FANTAZY"
Axl:  ...To be honest, I can't even derive a theme from Axl's weaponry beyond "The RM is now a gun."

lol yep this is accurate, they're also semi-based on fps standard weapons with a robot master twist hence why he has one for each slot right now

bear in mind Zero literally does not have the capability to hold more than about 8 well-designed weapons because all his attacks are different inputs on the same weapon, so you'd run out of ways to implement attacks preeettyy fast
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 28, 2014, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: "CHAOS_FANTAZY"
Roll:  Time Distortion.  Shield-like weapon that drains ammo over time; projectiles that come within a certain radius of Roll will become slowed to the point where they are easily avoided.
How about also having the option to pass it on to someone else? If the idea behind the weapon is to support others with it, then I guess you could potentially give it a gigantic AoE, but since Atomic Radiance already provides the basis to giving others "power-ups", it'd be more useful just passing it off instead of following another player around like a puppy dog.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: ScrapHeap on September 29, 2014, 12:41:42 AM
Plus I'm absolutely shure nobody likes being left in the dust when someone 'pocket medic's
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 29, 2014, 01:04:13 AM
I'll try to come up with potential weapons for characters (and the mod versions as well) at some point, see what kind of stuff I can think up.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Superjustinbros on September 29, 2014, 01:13:09 AM
X has terribad copyweps in MMXSP. Either they were too slow and/or they were difficult to aim, and in some cases they seemed a lot weaker than the X Buster, even when you have one of the armors. X's copyweps for the most part ended up falling into "Awesome but Impractical" territory.
So if MMXSP was supported in this mod; X's arsenal of (current) special weapons should get some kind of buff, since they should be able to do a lot more damage than your default weapon(s).
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 29, 2014, 03:22:56 AM
Wait....which classes are you planning on doing, Tails? I thought it was only the original 4 and MAYBE SIN.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 29, 2014, 04:00:17 AM
From the amount of work I heard that Max has done to MMXSP, I believe at this point it's too much work to try to implement those classes. I won't rule out perhaps making them compatible later, though. As for SIN, I'm probably going to rule that one out as well unless we get tons of weapon ideas for the other four classes. Like I'm doing with the hub map, though, I will be using SOME of SIN in the mod, just probably not the classes.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on September 29, 2014, 10:40:57 AM
Here's a few attack ideas for MM2.
Metal Man: Gear Storm
Takes time to charge up, is a rage, but has three gears fall down and go straight, and they face the same direction.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on September 29, 2014, 03:58:16 PM
Idea for Zero's Metal Man Weapon: Gear Wheel.
Throws a big half-gear (other half is in the ground) and damage everything on the path.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 29, 2014, 11:23:22 PM
Quote from: "PotatoStrike"
Idea for Zero's Metal Man Weapon: Gear Wheel.
Throws a big half-gear (other half is in the ground) and damage everything on the path.
I was going to actually suggest METAL Shark Player's attacks for X and Zero, Metal Anchor and Rakukojin (http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Rakukojin) from Metal Man. Also your described attack is like Zankourin (http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Zankourin).

Also, is this project going to use a weapon select system like Wily Wars? Cause I would suggest that to help keep players from having an unnecessary amount of weapons with them at once, would allow each player to select their weapons to bring with them while in the hub to let different people play different roles within the classes by the weapons they select to bring with them.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Superjustinbros on September 29, 2014, 11:55:11 PM
I do have a feeling that if we get to the MM8 chapter and SIN is supported, Doc Robot would get smaller versions of the Evil Robot's attacks for his MM8 Weapons.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on September 30, 2014, 12:26:14 AM
Quote from: "Superjustinbros"
I do have a feeling that if we get to the MM8 chapter and SIN is supported, Doc Robot would get smaller versions of the Evil Robot's attacks for his MM8 Weapons.
That's IF it gets to MM8 and IF SIN is supported.
Tails is trying to get MM1 up and running so that this mod isn't dismissed, like Rozark said, as another pipe dream; why is everyone (not you specifically Justin) talking about hypotheticals for MM2-MM8 X and Zero? If I was Tails, I'd appreciate more ideas for MMSP MM1 weapons; for example, FGG has a whole list of MM1 suggestions on his resources page. Tails can debate these MM1 ideas right now because he's developing MM1.

Again, this is my opinion; I'm not speaking for Tails, so take it with a grain of salt. However, keep in mind that mods that build upon itself are built step-by-step, not spewing whatever comes to mind.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on September 30, 2014, 12:39:50 AM
I even tried to get a bunch out of the way at once, coming up with ideas on the spot or using some I had in mind already, this way I'm not spamming with a single idea after single idea and my ideas are more easily findable.
Perhaps a topic for weapon ideas for this project might be in order to not suddenly flood this one.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on September 30, 2014, 01:37:55 AM
I want to avoid having to make another topic altogether just for this mod, but I guess I might have to if it becomes a problem searching for ideas previously suggested.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Knux on October 04, 2014, 06:36:06 AM
I was going to post these MM1 weapon ideas on Skype, but I didn't see you there at the moment.

Bomb Man:

(click to show/hide)
Guts Man:

(click to show/hide)
Cut Man:

(click to show/hide)
Elec Man:

(click to show/hide)
Ice Man:
(click to show/hide)
Fire Man:
(click to show/hide)
I don't know what to say about Time and Oil that hasn't been done, but I can give both a shot on request.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: BlackEmperorJet on October 04, 2014, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
I was going to post these MM1 weapon ideas on Skype, but I didn't see you there at the moment.

Bomb Man:

(click to show/hide)
Guts Man:

(click to show/hide)
Cut Man:

(click to show/hide)
Elec Man:

(click to show/hide)
Ice Man:
(click to show/hide)
Fire Man:
(click to show/hide)
I don't know what to say about Time and Oil that hasn't been done, but I can give both a shot on request.


Please do give ideas for Time and Oil.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Trillster on October 04, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
Nice ideas Knux, you should make some for the MM2 weapons once we get to that point. I'd love to see some of your time and oil ideas.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: BookofDobson on October 04, 2014, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
I was going to post these MM1 weapon ideas on Skype, but I didn't see you there at the moment.

Bomb Man:

(click to show/hide)
Guts Man:

(click to show/hide)
Cut Man:

(click to show/hide)
Elec Man:

(click to show/hide)
Ice Man:
(click to show/hide)
Fire Man:
(click to show/hide)
I don't know what to say about Time and Oil that hasn't been done, but I can give both a shot on request.

About Guts wep for proto I think we can use the moblie phone game idea (2003 or 2004 that game was out and my first megaman game I guess you guys haven't heard of it) main fire shoots a rock splinter at the target. It is slow but does good damage and doesn't take much damage, alt fires a full rock that does more damage than Megaman's super arm but takes way more ammo.

And I'm guessing Fakeman, Doc, Duo and Dark don't exist now.

Anyway MM2 weps for the other classes should be based on Rom hack weps... trust me, that is fun
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 04, 2014, 06:34:55 PM
MMSPSIN won't be supported at this moment, but the fact we got so many weapon ideas...maybe something will come out of this later. Anyway, just a little announcement that a team is being formed so work can be done by people other than myself as my focus shifts to mapping, the one thing this team really lacks...

Expect occasional updates to the first post, especially since I gathered all of the enemy sprites I could find on my computer, and as I eventually claim a map for myself to do (thinking Guts Man).
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 16, 2014, 05:47:36 AM
Well, it's been a while since my last post, so I think this can be made an exception to the double post rule...so, just a small update on what's been happening with the project. Pretty much everyone that wanted to help out has been pretty busy providing the new content for this project, myself included. While I'd love to mention anything major like new maps or new weapons, I'm not going to mention anything about them...just yet. Rather, the stuff behind the scenes that I'll be revealing throughout the life cycle of this project will just be the tip of the iceberg. So, I have a couple of pictures for you guys showcasing two new features to MMWorld, and one of these I had hinted at in an earlier post. Both of these new features take place on a still WIP remodel of the HUB map. So, hopefully this'll be enough to prove that the project really exists, and is alive and well.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)


There is no expected release date soon even if you ask me for one, as there is still a lot of work to do. A lot of the stuff that was needed in order to get started on the project is pretty much completed, though. What I do hope to show before the end of the year is some actual screenshots of maps in progress, but I cannot promise that. A tiny amount of weapon discussion might be in a future update, though. For now, this is what I am willing to show. This project is very much alive and I might say that an entire team accomplished a lot more than what I could have done on my own, so I'm very thankful for everyone on the team contributing in some way. Let's hope October continues to be a productive month!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on October 16, 2014, 07:47:31 AM
Good luck and thanks a lot for this project!
I think, we need really a project like that... =)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on October 16, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
Very nice, the weapon selection will be perfect for the mod. Allowing each player to fill in different roles as their character. Would suck if Mega 1 forgot to bring drill bomb when the map has a wall to destroy, but Mega 2 is focusing on more supportive weapons and remembered it.

Its like your own version of a skill tree
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: coolcat7022 on October 16, 2014, 07:12:16 PM
WOOAAAHAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS JUST CRANKED UP THE HYPE! I will download from the first thing ASAP.
Btw, I noticed you guys alpha testing... :3
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on November 09, 2014, 08:22:16 PM
(Oh, it hasn't been a month since the last update...I guess this wasn't overdue, but still should keep everyone updated every now and then...)

I don't have anything to show this time, but regardless, progress still continues with Mega Man World, and I say that some of my choices on what people to have as part of the dev team have rather surprised me. Even when I have been either resting or working on college assignments, some other members of my group have been hard at work producing their own content. I think what I got yesterday from the dev chat was that Proto Man's MM1 weapons have been officially decided on, so next update I'll probably cover a new weapon or two for each class (minus Mega Man, of course, since everyone is familiar with his weapons). I won't cover ALL of the new weapons, though, since you guys will just have to find out what the new weapons are. The weapon demonstrations should help you guys figure out the new weapons, hopefully.

Next thing I want to mention is that all of the planned bosses for the MM1 chapter have been coded, and we will constantly be testing the bosses as the project continues on. This also includes the fortress bosses, and they are quite a challenge! Rather, progress on bosses have been so quick that our team is already developing extra bosses like the MM2 bosses. There will be some way that you'll get to battle them, but that shall remain a secret as well until people find out about it in the first release...

The last thing I want to discuss is map progress. I know I haven't updated the first post in a while, but here is how everything stands atm:

Cutman: Done by CMM in his MMSP project
Gutsman: Taken (Myself)
Iceman: Taken (Knux)
Bombman: OPEN
Fireman: Taken (Someone outside the team)
Elecman: Taken (Someone outside the team)
Timeman: Might be taken, not 100% sure
Oilman: OPEN
Fortress Stages: Not developed but not open at this time.

When more progress is done on maps, I will spend some updates highlighting a few details about each new map coming to the MMSP scene. Since Ice Man is the most developed new map at this point, the update after I talk about the new weapons will probably cover Ice Man first. I am still open to anyone wishing to help do maps for the project, as the maps themselves are really the ONLY reason this project isn't already out.

That's all for now, the future updates in this thread should resume with screenshots and information as content becomes official.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Lobsters on November 16, 2014, 06:44:42 PM
I guess since Fire Man is taken by ("someone outside of the team") and the only map I'd personally want to do. I guess I can take Bomb Man's (Give him a super jump) map. Since it's mostly platforming and that's arguebly what I excel at. OC haters be damned.


Note: other things I excel at:

-Texture Soup

-Making Squares

Blah blah no rails no "fun" Shoutouts to my homie Toastman stuff. I got it.



EDIT: I RQ GG Well Played. Add me on XBL
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on November 20, 2014, 07:42:22 PM
Since I've been on this project, I've heard of so many attempts at Coop. People really wanted to do their own quest ever since the release of MMSP. The good news at this point is...I'm keeping my promise. It's just a matter of time and map work now, so for those that have attempted Coop in the past...your work will not be in vain. We're too far into MMWorld now for us to fail. So, after hearing about a Coop attempt by Glazty, Max ended up giving me the Oil Man SP map that was done a long time ago, and I just had the chance to play it. I think MMWorld will finally give the map the love it needed back then. So I am claiming Oil Man at this point so we will not need a new Oil Man map, and my rough estimate of map progress on Oil Man is...90%. It was that far along, so it's such a shame it's been sitting unused for such a long time. I mainly need to update the enemy placement and whatever adjustments the staff feels the map needs. So expect to hear news on both a couple of Proto Man's new weapons and also a brief stage overview of Oil Man's map. This was really a great find, so thank you Max and Glazty.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Knux on November 20, 2014, 08:23:29 PM
Preview of the middle route in Ice Man's map. Feel free to speculate.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: LarissaFlash on November 20, 2014, 09:29:16 PM
My hype just went through my body and exploded outside it because of that picture.  I just imagined a duo and a protoman getting out of the water preparing their weapons for the next enemy. The nostaalgia, dood.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Superjustinbros on November 20, 2014, 09:37:29 PM
Looks good. If you want my full opinion you could round off the top of the slope in that image and stick a few of the metal pillars into the walls of that exterior area to make it a bit less simple, and maybe rearrange the three palm tress so they don't form a triangle formation.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on November 20, 2014, 11:21:06 PM
I dunno, I find that sky to be the most appealing thing in that screenshot. It just looks so great for some reason.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Ceridran on November 20, 2014, 11:49:19 PM
Speaking of the sky, there's some unattractive clipping going on somewhere in the center.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Knux on November 28, 2014, 05:13:25 AM
We're back this week with another screenshot! This time it's from the usual MMSPCUT and... what's that?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TheDoc on November 28, 2014, 06:53:46 AM
The Bass Buster reminds me of a question: Will you be using the MMSP busters of the 4 classes or the MMSPSIN?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: LarissaFlash on November 28, 2014, 02:02:07 PM
Good, spikes on top of the pillars! Now nobody can avoid the Big Eye and the Crazy Razies by getting on top of the pillars.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: ScrapHeap on November 28, 2014, 02:24:20 PM
Now I'm really excited for when this comes out. Is there a specified release date?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: LarissaFlash on November 28, 2014, 03:17:32 PM
The progress may be like at 40%... Unless they release a full MM1-2 beta..
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Max on November 28, 2014, 04:02:54 PM
Interesting... Based on its position it looks like an offshoot of the first bridge area, which would make it pretty much a pit flow-wise that people would have to go in and out of without actually progressing through the stage (would make the most sense if its one of those 'mission' things). Buuuuuttt the background bricks make it seem like the first bridge is gone entirely and that's a new area, which would admittedly be kinda rad. Looks a lot better than Iceman did aesthetically, anyway.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: TailsMK4 on November 28, 2014, 06:23:47 PM
Quote from: "Perfectlylegit"
Now I'm really excited for when this comes out. Is there a specified release date?


I actually still cannot decide on a date yet, since it all depends on how quickly the maps get made (considering at this time Bomb Man is still unclaimed...). When the 8 RM maps are finished, then there's still the bonus stages to do, but since I'll probably make those a team effort, I might be able to come up with a reasonable release date by then. My team has also yet to finish Bass's and Roll's weapons, but I'll try to get that finished soon.

So I guess I'll just mention that my team decided to do some updates to Cut Man SP and about to look at the changes done to Heat Man SP. We probably will not touch Needle or Toad at this time, but then again, it's still a while before all of the MM1 maps are finished, so I could be wrong, but that's what the current planning is at this time. Until that time, all that I can really do is keep the hype with Coop going, and Max's MMXSP, despite it being a beta, is bringing tons of people back to playing Coop, so that's been really nice to see happen. I hope future updates to MMXSP would keep people coming back for more as well. I really want the interest in Cooperative mods to return, pretty much like how people had a lot of interest in MMSP back then to do their own work for it. MMWorld is probably going to be that interest boost needed to get projects going again, especially since a secondary purpose of the mod is that projects can be "built around" this mod, using whatever elements from the mod plus the team's own content to make their own projects. This WILL be released, it's just a matter of when we can finish the new content coming.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Trillster on November 28, 2014, 08:04:19 PM
ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN! Anyway, a bit of back story here. We finished the MM1 bosses so I went ahead and started the MM2 ones. Here's Flashman in MM2FLA along with something else. Feel free to speculate on what it is. (BTW, this DOES NOT mean that we're doing both MM1 and MM2 in the same release)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: LarissaFlash on November 28, 2014, 09:40:33 PM
Oh no, oh no oh NOOOOOOOOOOOO, ITS COMMINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG
..the hipeh
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on November 29, 2014, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: "Sonicfam1102"
ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN! Anyway, a bit of back story here. We finished the MM1 bosses so I went ahead and started the MM2 ones. Here's Flashman in MM2FLA along with something else. Feel free to speculate on what it is. (BTW, this DOES NOT mean that we're doing both MM1 and MM2 in the same release)
(click to show/hide)

Er... It's Flash Man's battle room? The items are going wrong. That's all.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: Trillster on November 29, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: "PotatoStrike"
Er... It's Flash Man's battle room? The items are going wrong. That's all.

Actually, I was referring to the thing right above Flashman's head. Also, that's just MM2FLA not his battle room.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project announced!)
Post by: PotatoStrike on November 30, 2014, 09:41:59 AM
Quote from: "Sonicfam1102"
Quote from: "PotatoStrike"
Er... It's Flash Man's battle room? The items are going wrong. That's all.

Actually, I was referring to the thing right above Flashman's head. Also, that's just MM2FLA not his battle room.

Oh sorry, didn't saw anything right above his head. I'm going to watch for this thing.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 01, 2014, 05:22:33 PM
Here is a small idea for an easter egg: hit a hidden actor for a song from a random Rockman hack for that stage to play. Since there are no plans for Rom hack SPs and we are never going to get to them we can at least put a nice easter egg like that
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Trillster on December 01, 2014, 09:55:07 PM
Quote from: "BookofDobson"
Here is a small idea for an easter egg: hit a hidden actor for a song from a random Rockman hack for that stage to play. Since there are no plans for Rom hack SPs and we are never going to get to them we can at least put a nice easter egg like that

Actually, I'd want to try to avoid using any ROM hack material. There's a reasonable explanation for this though. MMWorld is going to be able to be used as a base for all coop mods so I wouldn't want to discourage people who want to make expansions of the ROM hacks such as RNC or 4MI. I might occasionally pull a few references to them for my bosses, but I wouldn't go so far as to take music directly from one.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 01, 2014, 10:22:51 PM
Quote from: "Sonicfam1102"
Quote from: "BookofDobson"
Here is a small idea for an easter egg: hit a hidden actor for a song from a random Rockman hack for that stage to play. Since there are no plans for Rom hack SPs and we are never going to get to them we can at least put a nice easter egg like that

Actually, I'd want to try to avoid using any ROM hack material. There's a reasonable explanation for this though. MMWorld is going to be able to be used as a base for all coop mods so I wouldn't want to discourage people who want to make expansions of the ROM hacks such as RNC or 4MI. I might occasionally pull a few references to them for my bosses, but I wouldn't go so far as to take music directly from one.

So no easter eggs at least? I'm not asking to have it side by side in a random pick script just something well hidden that someone would shoot at
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Knux on December 01, 2014, 10:48:40 PM
Music changing actors are extremely overdone though, so if we were to incorporate easter eggs of some sort, it would probably not be something of that nature.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on December 02, 2014, 01:51:27 AM
Quote from: "Knux"
Music changing actors are extremely overdone though, so if we were to incorporate easter eggs of some sort, it would probably not be something of that nature.
How about some sort of light switch that, triggered times enough, would activate a secret event?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Linnie on December 02, 2014, 02:37:40 AM
I would think we'd need to finish some of the actual expansions before we made co-op maps based off said expansions.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: ScrapHeap on December 02, 2014, 02:02:45 PM
Why not make them secret boss areas? Hit a special place, get transported to a different level, beat a boss and absorb their soul.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: LarissaFlash on December 02, 2014, 03:35:35 PM
That's MMX Idea, and why beating a secret boss if he's gonna have his stage later?
If you think in custom bosses, they said they wanted to do only the ideas they have in mind, so the mod can be expansion-able.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 02, 2014, 05:52:54 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
I would think we'd need to finish some of the actual expansions before we made co-op maps based off said expansions.

Yes Linnie that has been said for the 10th time now thank you.

Now about the secret boss areas and such, this is kinda why I said music. To be honest I truly believe that we and never ever gonna get to the ROM hack stages (at least with the main team) to do that you will have to form your own little team and use this mod as a base, which is why I said make a hidden shoot-able object. Kunx says this is overrated but I didn't see what other way to do it without the team going with extra work
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Max on December 02, 2014, 06:29:39 PM
Curious. Will Mega Man's special weapons just be direct vanilla rips again? It'd be better if he had weapons more like those from MM1, like an Ice Slasher that travels faster, shoots slowly, and freezes enemies. Or a Fire Storm that has a wider and longer lasting shield, Rolling Cutter with a shorter range and no bouncing, Super Arm that picks up rocks from the level... etc.
Direct rips would be pretty dull imo
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TheDoc on December 02, 2014, 07:23:50 PM
Quote from: "Max"
It'd be better if he had weapons more like those from MM1, like an Ice Slasher that travels faster, shoots slowly, and freezes enemies. Or a Fire Storm that has a wider and longer lasting shield, Rolling Cutter with a shorter range and no bouncing, Super Arm that picks up rocks from the level... etc.
Direct rips would be pretty dull imo
+1 vote, especially with the Super Arm idea. Imo it'd be really cool to have a Super Arm just like in the Classic games. Of course, it wouldn't be 100% canon and have Thunder Beam shoot up and down or something, but I guess the feel of having certain weapons be more canon would....feel better? I know my reasoning is literally just "it would feel better/more canon" but idk how else to explain it.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 02, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
except for super arm, remember why we hated Justified classes?

I'll stop there.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on December 02, 2014, 08:12:52 PM
Remember that this isn't player vs player. Super Arm could work like it did in MM1 and still be fairly decent. Of course, it would kind of suck if that were your only weapon at the time, but it would still be great for unveiling secrets and alternate paths.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on December 02, 2014, 08:18:11 PM
Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Remember that this isn't player vs player. Super Arm could work like it did in MM1 and still be fairly decent. Of course, it would kind of suck if that were your only weapon at the time, but it would still be great for unveiling secrets and alternate paths.
Well, it could have been given the mobile or arcade function paired with the original use. As in:
if facing a block you can pick up, you will pick it up. If not facing any of those, you'll fire a small chunk of rock.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 02, 2014, 08:21:55 PM
Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Remember that this isn't player vs player. Super Arm could work like it did in MM1 and still be fairly decent. Of course, it would kind of suck if that were your only weapon at the time, but it would still be great for unveiling secrets and alternate paths.


Well yes I like the super arm idea
I was talking about the rest of the weps
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on December 02, 2014, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: "BookofDobson"
Quote from: "SmashTheEchidna"
Remember that this isn't player vs player. Super Arm could work like it did in MM1 and still be fairly decent. Of course, it would kind of suck if that were your only weapon at the time, but it would still be great for unveiling secrets and alternate paths.


Well yes I like the super arm idea
I was talking about the rest of the weps
Guess I misinterpreted that, sorry.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Korby on December 02, 2014, 09:33:38 PM
The reason I suppose you're referencing with the Justified comment isn't that they were 100% accurate, just that doing so didn't end up being as fun as it sounded.
I do agree that Megaman should definitely not just have core 8BDM weapons, as that is both boring and kind of redundant for a few of the weapons from even the same game[Ice Slasher, Thunder Beam, and Rolling Cutter are all ripping weapons for example].

I think if done well, more accurate copyweps for Megaman could be cool.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on December 02, 2014, 11:24:48 PM
Some vanilla mm8bdm weapons in MBPX were pretty nice and canon!
Maybe some of them could be a good idea.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6462 (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6462)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TailsMK4 on December 03, 2014, 12:36:53 AM
I discussed this with my team and I think I will attempt to revise some of the MM1 weapons for MMWorld (not going to budge on how Super Arm works unless another method besides being forced to place Guts Blocks all over the maps can be suggested). If people are fine with it, I may get some ideas from MBPX. I forgot that I wanted to edit the weapons to make sure people couldn't just tear through Big Eyes and other major enemies with weapons like the Thunder Beam anyway, so the suggestion to make the weapons more canon will be implemented in some way.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: BookofDobson on December 05, 2014, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: "Korby"
The reason I suppose you're referencing with the Justified comment isn't that they were 100% accurate, just that doing so didn't end up being as fun as it sounded.
I do agree that Megaman should definitely not just have core 8BDM weapons, as that is both boring and kind of redundant for a few of the weapons from even the same game[Ice Slasher, Thunder Beam, and Rolling Cutter are all ripping weapons for example].

I think if done well, more accurate copyweps for Megaman could be cool.

The Justified comment was for one of the main complaints about JC. The fact that JC is so canon based it leaves little to fun and freedom.
If we don't like that why bring it now?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Korby on December 06, 2014, 02:04:30 AM
different connotations, different results.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Knux on January 03, 2015, 11:07:19 PM
It's been a bit of a while since we posted anything new, so here's the last teaser images of MMWICE! I will go into some detail with each, as well.
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TailsMK4 on February 13, 2015, 06:59:13 PM
Hello all, just wanting to mention this project is still going. Just been waiting on showing off more stuff for now until we get more progress done on maps. Our devteam has been working on currently playable versions of Ice Man, Elec Man, and Oil Man (with progress on a couple of other maps as well, but not enough to test any of them in the alpha versions), but with updates to all maps still ongoing, I have decided against showcasing any of them at this time. As we get past the halfway point on maps, I'll start showcasing some of them, as well as any other upcoming features I feel should be worth mentioning. Knux has kindly provided teasers for MMWICE, so I may cover MMWELE and MMWOIL in the future. Progress will continue to be slow for a little while, but work is being done for the mod. It IS a large-scale mod, of course, but I don't want to release anything publicly until it is good and ready. Better for you guys to wait a few more weeks for a relatively solid release rather than rush out a release with unbalanced elements and buggy features, imo.

In the mean time, I hope you guys will continue to support MMXSP, as Max is keeping the Coop scene alive and has already revealed new stages in the works. My biggest hope is that MMWorld and MMXSP can co-exist and boost the Coop scene even more than before. I am not just saying this to draw attention to MMWorld...I play MMXSP personally when I see people online. Max's MMXSP provides a fresh take on the MMSP formula and I wish Max well on the new updates coming to that mod.

That is all for now, I'm sorry if you were expecting some actual new content after me not posting in a while, but progress is going on maps and some other surprises in store.

Actually, I guess I will mention something now so this post has something new at least:

A little while ago, I did do an enemy demo that showcased a couple of enemies I added to Mike's Cut Man SP map. They were the Octopus Batteries and the Cutting Wheels. So I decided that the enemies from Mega Man GB: Dr. Wily's Revenge will also be appearing among the regular MM1/MMPU enemies that you encounter in the stages. So the Cutting Wheel and some MM2 enemies will be appearing in the new maps as well. Each map will feature one enemy from Dr. Wily's Revenge/MM2 (the exception being Oil Man as it has both Hot Heads and Crazy Cannons in the PU stage). There were also enemies that only appeared in the Wily stages too, so that made deciding what enemy will go where a bit tricky. I think I have made my choices, though, so for the new content in a little while, the following GB/MM2 enemies will appear in their respective stages:


Cut Man: Cutting Wheel
Guts Man: Mole
Ice Man: Scworm
Bomb Man: Pipi
Fire Man: Hot Head
Elec Man: Lightning Lord
Time Man: Crazy Cannon
Oil Man: Hot Head/Crazy Cannon


Will I do this format as well for MM2-4? That is yet to be seen, partly because I want to just focus on one game at a time (though content for future games have been made as well). Just doing one game's content is large enough as is, and I didn't want the project to get too large for the first release by doing as many games as possible. Technically MMWorld could have enough content to represent both the NES and the GB versions of the first game, so that's a ton of content already, and that's just the tip of the iceberg compared to what else is in store.

That really is it for now. Updates will come as more map progress is done.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Trillster on May 12, 2015, 10:05:57 PM
Oh my, it appears that we might have fallen asleep...

Well it's time to wake up!
(click to show/hide)

Hmm, now that we're awake, I wonder what the rest of this post ought to be.. Oh, I know, lemme just add some map progress. It's quite a shock that we haven't shown you any new maps other than Ice. Allow me to change that.
(click to show/hide)

So, with those screenshots out of the way, here's the exciting part. We're actually asking for feedback such as stage gimmicks or future weapons that you would enjoy seeing. We'd even take weapon ideas for other classes. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing some of your suggestions!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on May 12, 2015, 11:57:03 PM
Hate to be a stickler but Lightning Lord never showed up in Elecman's NES stage, only his GB stage. Unless you are taking that into consideration.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TheDoc on May 13, 2015, 12:01:07 AM
Quote from: "TheDoc"
Guts Digger/Item Digger
It's like Super Arm except for the fact that Roll digs up an item rather than a massive block. You wouldn't have to create FX for every item; instead, you could simply have her dig up and throw a rock (idk if it would look different than the original), preferably affected by gravity. When the rock dies, it randomly spawns a small/big weapon/life energy pickup, and rarely an E-Tank.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Trillster on May 13, 2015, 12:21:54 AM
Quote from: "fortegigasgospel"
Hate to be a stickler but Lightning Lord never showed up in Elecman's NES stage, only his GB stage. Unless you are taking that into consideration.

Actually, we are taking the GB stages into consideration for MMWorld, so Lightning Lords won't be the only GB enemies showing up. Not only are enemies from the GB games showing up but even a few gimmicks are, though I wouldn't want to spoil them for you.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on May 13, 2015, 01:06:35 AM
Ok, actually glad to hear about that.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Superjustinbros on July 22, 2015, 12:38:10 AM
Hate to give this a big bump, considering this idea is more cosmetic than anything, but could the stages based on MM1-MM3's RM's contain tiles from not just the NES incarnations of those stages, but also the ones from the Game Boy games and Wily Wars?

Likewise, the MM4 and half the MM5 stages would use tiles from the Game Boy games as well.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TailsMK4 on July 22, 2015, 02:07:19 AM
I feel the tiles would mainly clash. I do recall one or two stages using a little of the Wily Wars set, though.

Well, I was going to bump this myself anyway, but just wanted to let you guys know that although I do not have anything new to announce at this point (probably will keep the rest of the planned features a secret until release time), this project has recently resumed development. Quite a few of us felt the need to take a break during the Summer, but we have resumed working as of a couple of weeks ago, and we have decided how many maps will be present in MM1.

I will not mention the exact number of maps that MMWorld V1 will feature, but I will say the replay value of MMWorld is people repeating 10+ maps as opposed to repeating only 4 maps in MMSP. There are many other features planned as well, and I may possibly start up some contests in the Events forum later in celebration of probably the largest collaboration ever seen in a long time (I almost could say only MM8BDM's being larger, but our team might be a bit too small for that claim). I also hope that the source will be ready for mod makers to start up their own projects using MMWorld as a base starting on the first release. The first release will be soon, but I cannot give an exact date at this time due to unfinished maps being the main reason we are not already preparing for the release.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Superjustinbros on July 25, 2015, 09:50:19 PM
Understood.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: GutsmanJohn on August 17, 2015, 10:14:59 PM
Not sure if this is the place to ask but is there anyway i can be part of this Testing?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: Destroy Drill on August 18, 2015, 12:10:52 AM
I'm also not sure if this is the place to ask but can I be part of the MMWorld testing. I couldn't reach tails online because he was always on team chat I think...

I Played MMXSP And I think I played the old mmsp a LOOOONG time ago, so I do have some experience with single player stuff...(not the technical stuff or anything about zandronum, doom, or any programming...I mean as in opinions...)

Now People Will Comment Cuz I Use A Lot Of Dots......
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Mega Man World project team roster)
Post by: TailsMK4 on August 18, 2015, 02:34:42 AM
Well, I suppose this thread is in long need of an update, so bear with me here. The first post on this thread has not been updated in quite a long time, so really don't even pay attention to it. I'll update it when the project is actually released. The team is quite a bit larger than what the first post says. So, I suppose the best way to do this update is to do a quick question and answer session with the questions that I would probably get asked a lot after this update, so here you go:


How far along is MMWorld/When will MMWorld be released?

I still cannot even estimate a possible release date at this time, but my best guess progress-wise is that we are 70% of the way to the grand release. What I will say at this time is that we have decided on how many maps will be in the release, and that magic number is 14. There are 7 new RM maps for the rest of the MM1 cast, plus the original 4 MMSP stages (with Cut having some significant changes including its layout, though the original layout is mostly intact), plus two fortress maps, and also an updated Example map which serves as a tutorial for the mod. Map progress is the primary reason this isn't already out, as we still have some maps in development still (and the second fortress map not even being started yet). There are also some more minor details and features that are not finished yet, either. Enemies and bosses are complete, though obviously tweaks still need to be made to them, and the lab itself still has some changes to go through. Weapons are complete, but they also need some tweaking (I will say some of the newest will be quite unexpected). There's really too much for me to list that needs to get done. We do get closer with every new alpha, though.


Will there be more maps to come after the first update?

That's the intention, but we'll need to see how the first release goes. We could have gone on to include content from other games, but that just would have pushed us back more. I said from the start to my team that our focus is on MM1. There IS content from other games, but that's one of the many surprises in store for you guys. You will find this game to actually take a while to complete 100% even with just MM1 content, so that should increase Co-op interest online.


I'd like to help out in some way, are you guys accepting more help?

We do like to get more testers since we have yet to test the balance of the maps with a larger group of players. I am doing some planning on allowing more testers into our project, but that is not my primary focus at this time. I will just say that if you want to be a tester, the only requirement is the other team members are ok with you being on the team. There are some rules I must set in place, however. If you do not agree with any of these rules, then do not even apply. If I find out any of these rules have been broken, your rights as a tester will be stripped, and you will be unable to reapply for the project. Don't think I'm trying to be mean, these rules cover the nightmarish scenarios I worry about allowing more people access to the mod itself. The rules you MUST follow are:

1. Anything you see or hear about the inside workings of this mod are NOT to be shared with anyone outside the team. The ONLY details you may share are ones already known public in this thread, but not any more detailed. You may discuss with fellow team members either in the test chat or privately.

2. You are forbidden to host any of the alphas on BE. This is just so I have complete control on where the alphas get hosted. I do not want anyone outside of the team to get access to the alpha because the host forgot to remove it off BE. This mod may not be uploaded anywhere for others to download, nor shared on a service like Skype. This is STRICTLY for the team only. The BE portion of this rule does not apply to you if you can host privately, just do not have a link to the download. I do ask that you not add anything to the server, as anything past just the mod itself could break things. These classes are NOT meant to be used in Deathmatch, for example, as their weapons are only tested against monsters and not other players. We also maintain our own global and wepacs files, so things will get messy if they get overwritten.

3. You will treat the developers with the respect they deserve. It is thanks to them that I can even offer you guys a chance to help test the project. I do not ask much of you guys other than to respect your fellow team members or testers. If you have a gripe with one of the dev members, that is ok, but do not try to mess them up in any way. Sometimes it is better to not say anything at all...

4. Because you are applying as a tester...you MAY NOT edit the alphas to your desire. If I find edited copies of the alphas floating around outside the team...trust me, you don't want to know. I'll be treating this very seriously.


IF YOU AGREE TO THESE RULES AND UNDERSTAND THE PUNISHMENT FOR BREAKING THEM...contact me on Skype or by PM and just tell me who you are, including any aliases you use online (if you do not have my Skype, you can either send me your Skype name by PM or contact someone you know is on the team and they will bring you to me). There is likely no reason you will not be accepted except if team members object to you being added.


...I think that should just about do it for this update. I plan to put together a trailer as we near the time of the release. As for when to expect the trailer, I plan to begin working on it sometime after all of the RM maps are finished. Otherwise, feel free to ask me any questions if you see me online. Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh this update, and I really do appreciate people offering to help out, but I need to protect this mod since so much work has gone into it. I really don't want this to be a wasted effort. I hope you understand my take on this. That's it for now.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 26, 2016, 04:52:34 AM
Wow, it's been almost a year since my last post in this thread. I have not news regarding MMWorld (that's still a thing, but everyone has taken a break for the time being), but regarding Saxton Hale. I have confirmed with Stardust that Saxton Hale Rebirth ++ has ceased completely. She really was soloing her project with myself giving ideas. But that's as much as I'll go into that topic...so what does this mean for Saxton Hale? Right now Saxton Hale is dead, and it has had a good run, so I know some people wanting to take a break from the mod have had much time to enjoy other mods that the community has provided (Unholy being a big thing). Is there a chance of it coming back? Depends on what you guys want. Despite the fact Saxton Hale has not been in development for a long time, I still see it being played every now and then...this week, actually, I have seen Saxton Hale played a few days in a row. So my question to you guys is...is Saxton Hale worth reviving?

I cannot promise anything at this point. I am merely seeing if there is still interest in Saxton Hale being continued despite mods like Unholy and Copybot/Justified Classes being dominant at times. If there seems to be enough interest, I would then see who I could gather for a small development team to start again, possibly reusing either Saxton Hale Rebirth, Rebirth++, or some other version of SH. Let's assume the interest is there and a team is formed to start again...what are some things you want to add to the gameplay of SH? I have some thoughts regarding this, and I'm open to going against any of these ideas (except one), if it might lead to something better.

Obviously Saxton Hale and possibly many others will return. Who should return? I feel there were some great bosses in the Rebirth/++ series that deserve to return. I also think the concept of secret bosses will return, but I might opt for how Unholy does secret bosses...instead of the bosses popping up every once in a while (except Abe Penny), there would be a secret condition that must be met for said boss to appear. My current thoughts include the following... (spoilered to save some space)

(click to show/hide)


Should SH get revived, I also want to recruit a small team of class builders, since I do think people do not care much for vanilla style of play, but I want to build up classes meant just for Saxton Hale, not trying to be compatible with the other Classes mods out there since the bosses would not only need to be able to keep up with and do well against those classes, but there are simply too many Classes mods to be kept track of (how would Saxton Hale work with much older Classes mods? There is the possibility they could get hosted), that testing the bosses against them for fairness would require MUCH time devoted to testing.

What are your thoughts regarding this? Is it worth it to revive Saxton Hale, or should it continue to rest after having its time in the spotlight?
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on June 26, 2016, 07:34:53 AM
Quote from: "TailsMK4"
(click to show/hide)
All the video's were set to private apparently. No on can view them anymore.
There wasn't a whole lot of attacks if I recall. Homing orbs, phase running, and the super kick thing if all I can think of.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: IamaMedalHunter on June 26, 2016, 11:06:44 AM
I'd be interested in seeing this mod being updated again if it breaks out of the "melee main attack" routine.



Sure, it's inherited from Saxton Hale's fists, but why limit half of the bosses to melee range when they could be even more creative ? Especially Remilia Scarlet suffered from that : she's from a game with lots and lots of bullets wih many different patterns, and she was reduced to a rushing boss with really poor range. Having bosses with different mechanics and possibly covering midlong-range would definitely add a variety flavor that few bosses have brought until now. (Notable example : when Dio Flash saw the light of day even though it's a vampire lol, everyone liked him because he has an effective and unique mid-range mechanic, something we've never battled against before. It is exciting to both fight against and as this boss)
Moreover, in a game where a part of the players have ping over 100, it's very difficult for them to play as melee bosses because of a delay before the melee projectile is shot, and also because the survivors don't stand still. It usually results in the boss missing hits too often and make them say "yeah, ok ... I at least got one ..."

Then, there are bosses who just can't have anything else than melee. And that's not a real issue in itself, really. Super Macho Man has a great yet simple mechanic : stun then uppercut, completed with a speed boost. Macho Man is a very self-dynamic boss in that he can "help himself" and has options to spice up his game. On the other hand, Saxton Hale is just "punch". I get he's supposed to be the most basic, but his pattern is just bland.
What bosses need, if this project was to rebirth yet again, is "interesting interactivity" whether with themselves (like how the Genesis Unit worked together), or the players (only example I can think of is the Hypnosis item from the RaThor boss), or even the environment (Remilia's rage is highly dependent on the area).

Then there's the case of the secret bosses. I feel like they should be harvesting their gimmick even more to try making them unique and a bit more interesting to fight. For now, we have a boss with intimidating health, one who can knock away her foes, a duo with impressive (and hilarious) size, and then one with a completely unique key-combo mechanic. Except for the latter (because noone has ever seen him, and I think he's already very alright), secret bosses with a well pronounced gimmick and maybe with a very fun weakness to try exploiting would be worth going through the trouble of completing the special condition. Of course, it'd be preferable if the fight is fair so a reasonable player who died says "I think I could have avoided that if only ... Welp, nicely played." instead of "this was completely unfair and OP. There was no chance".

Finally, there's the thing about "super jumps". I believe they were incorporated so bosses "can reach campers". But this is not enough for it only boosts them where they are. Bosses need a way to punish them, so why not trying to incorporate the punishment with the super jump or in one of the boss's attacks ?
Moreover, there's the case where the boss is completely overwhelmed and surrounded. Being ambushed upon is very dire, so why not make the super jump into an emergency card ? Quote does that well because of his jetpack boost which allows him to escape quickly.
The point I'm trying to get across is that the standard super-jump items are not very interesting for the boss's moveset. Not only do they allow vertical mobility, but they should also definitely be a part of a boss's moveset, whether it's defensive(lie Dio's Time Stop jump) or offensive(a bit like Scrooge's exploding(?) landing), or even as a support move(like Gilgamesh's stomp jump)



Now, long things short :
-I'm interested in its revival if gameplay is polished more
-Do not limit yourselves to [close/melee]-range and be creative with the attack patterns
-Try incorporating Dynamic Interactivity to erase bland gameplay
-Do secret bosses with particular fights to make them unique
-"Super Jumps" should be more useful to the bosses
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Badz on June 26, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
(Do note I haven't touched any form of SH or derivative of it in a mighty while, so I might be wrong on some points, but...)
I definitely agree with Medal about the bosses' gameplay: they really need to be changed from "absurd amount of HP with some OHKO punch attack". It's just not fun or interesting at all.
Speaking of the "absurd amount of HP" part, that's always bothered me about SH: bosses are ridiculously tanky, but in gameplay, they're actually really weak because they're slow and lack range to actually hit anything; in the end, it's usually the boss who runs away from the mass of angry players with ranged weapons, while it's the players that should be running in fear from the boss.
If you choose to revive this, you should consider making the bosses a lot more threatening and decreasing their HP accordingly. This would make the mode more interesting and (probably) help speeding up rounds, which I also recall being a problem.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Hilman170499 on June 26, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
Actually, I have one suggestion for that mod:
If possible, it should be TLMS, except with team colours removed(and rename the teams appropriately). That way, the developer team can handle the alignment(who's on whose side) issue easily, which can be effective in the long run considering the new damage types some bosses get.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Superjustinbros on June 26, 2016, 06:38:47 PM
Last time I checked, the next version of Hale is scheduled to be in TLMS.

I had many, many ideas for how Hale could be revived and possibly improved while the bosses remain simple enough and are easy to use and learn.
These were my ideas of things that could be altered to the bosses from R++ if they ever return, mostly with the intent of further diverting the melee/close range bosses or giving them ranged options.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Dimpsy on June 26, 2016, 07:16:04 PM
So you decide to opt out of Unholy's method of secret bosses... by doing Unholy's method of secret bosses... GG no re.
Anyways having this mod back... ehhhhh... depends because of a lot of the bad shit that came out of it including the community as a whole. Unholy really is the best way to make a Saxton Hale in 8BDM at the moment.
However do I object? No, I'm curious where you'd go without Stardust. I will say however that I really do not like any of Stardust's bosses because they tended to be too gimmicky for their own good making them really hard to fight let alone play as. Revamps of all R++ bosses would be a must, especially since all bosses with melee have a hard time getting any kills due to poor hitboxes.

Oh yea and for the bosses you are considering:
- Morshu: If you bring this one back, PLEASE revert him back to the old version, the newer one in R++ kind of blows.
- Gutsman G.: This boss was awful stally in my opinion.
- Pissed Off Roll: She really was not favored by the community due to being able to HEAL. So a complete redo of the boss would be needed.
- Slenderman: No.
- Mudkip: No.

I could go all day on potential boss ideas, some of which I believe are somewhere deep in R++'s coding since R++ was planning to bring back the Hyper cast (Sonic, Doomguy, Dark Pit who was my old work, etc), but if the mod was ever brought back and new bosses were considered I could probably give ya some. If ya want I might even offer to sprite/code, though I cannot keep my promise completely, especially with a mod that doesn't even exist at the moment.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 26, 2016, 09:16:01 PM
Ah, some great feedback, and some comments were mentioned that I had in mind when designing Rebirth prior to Star wanting to team up. I'll go over this one by one...

Quote from: "IamaMedalHunter"
I'd be interested in seeing this mod being updated again if it breaks out of the "melee main attack" routine.

This would be a focus definitely. On the few bosses that would remain like this, they would have something that would help clear out crowds. I know at some point I wanted to give Saxton Hale the ability to stun or slow robots near him, since in VS. Saxton Hale which Silversin's SH was based from, he was able to shout out a taunt of some kind that left players around him scared.


Quote from: "IamaMedalHunter"
*snippet regarding super jumps*

At the time R++ was going strong, we had been experimenting with diverse Super Jumps that had a second function to them. Seems like the idea is good, but needs to be executed more. There would definitely be some thinking regarding these.


Quote from: "Badz"
(Do note I haven't touched any form of SH or derivative of it in a mighty while, so I might be wrong on some points, but...)
I definitely agree with Medal about the bosses' gameplay: they really need to be changed from "absurd amount of HP with some OHKO punch attack". It's just not fun or interesting at all.
Speaking of the "absurd amount of HP" part, that's always bothered me about SH: bosses are ridiculously tanky, but in gameplay, they're actually really weak because they're slow and lack range to actually hit anything; in the end, it's usually the boss who runs away from the mass of angry players with ranged weapons, while it's the players that should be running in fear from the boss.
If you choose to revive this, you should consider making the bosses a lot more threatening and decreasing their HP accordingly. This would make the mode more interesting and (probably) help speeding up rounds, which I also recall being a problem.

Part of this is why I'm considering porting bosses into Rebirth instead of working with R++, since we already had a different style of how bosses work. As boss health went down, the bosses ran faster. I recall we had the health of the bosses a bit lower than Silversin's. I have seen how tanky bosses work out. R++ Gilgamesh is capable of doing a lot of damage if his swords could hit...but being one of the slower bosses, it was possible to outrun him. It'll take some time to reverse the trend of drawn-out battles, but I believe Saxton Hale can adapt closer to the pace that Unholy provides, but still have the simplified gameplay that makes Saxton Hale easy to pick up.


Regarding Hilman's and Justin's comments, yes, Rebirth and R++ both were transitioning into TLMS during the final days of development. It not only makes it much easier to ensure attacks only hit certain targets (damagetypes for new attacks had to be ensured it hit the regular players but the boss itself should been immune to it), but it was also easier to tell who was who (in TLMS, you would know who the boss is just by checking the scoreboard). I would be continuing this.


Finally, regarding Justin's and Dimpsy's comments, I do have a few things to say.

-Morshu's R++ moveset was actually my idea and would have been the moveset in Rebirth. I'll see what I can do to make Morshu easier to use, but I personally thought the new moves made Morshu very unique as he was one of the few bosses that could adapt to changes in the environment or the opponents' strategies. I'd like to preserve that if possible, but perhaps having to tap or hold Main/Alt made him clunky to use.
-GutsManG was actually the first new boss for Rebirth. I intend to keep him in myself, but certainly could use some tweaks, maybe a makeover of some kind. My intention was for him to be the opposite gameplay-wise of Slenderman...kill the boss quickly, or the boss will kill you when time is up.
-The Ra Thor Duo was so both designs could be in the mod. I personally want to stay away from something Unholy does a lot...copies of the same boss with maybe something different for each copy (Hellbots, Devileyes, BusterExpert as well). While I will be keeping my design of Ra Thor, I'm open to how the other Ra Thors could get in too.
-Regarding OtakuAlex's Hyper Saxton Hale, the only boss I thought that was worth keeping was Mecha Hitler...the rest of the bosses weren't all that memorable, and Sonic I personally feel would work better as part of a team. I'm open to ideas regarding if any of those bosses should return.

Aside from these few notes, I'll definitely take into consideration the ideas mentioned by both of them. I'm going to wait a bit to see if there's more interest. I definitely would need some help if I were to take this up again. Thanks for the comments so far everyone.


EDIT: Basically, my goal would be to make the game much faster-paced like with Unholy, but be different enough that both can still co-exist. Unholy is a lot more chaotic than I intend to go with Saxton Hale, so people liking the really intense matches that Unholy provides will still have a large showing, but those wanting a break from Unholy or wanting an actual team-based mod would find a home in Saxton Hale.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Superjustinbros on June 27, 2016, 12:56:44 AM
I'll agree and say that as much as I'll take Unholy since I prefer more quick and chaotic things, Hale's more relaxed, team-based gameplay does appeal to me a certain extent and I'd love to see more of a teamwork element with this project much like TF2, with Auto and Roll having some dominance on the battlefield while still providing ample support and buffs for the allying survivors.

I didn't really go into a big amount of detail on how Auto and Roll could be retooled, though for Auto I have a feeling migrating this over to TLMS may make having some kind of sentry system for Auto work properly (as opposed to always shooting at allies). Roll meanwhile could have passive recovery and a heal beam that more closely matched the Medic's heal gun in performance (homing, inf energy (or faster charge), while maybe giving her alternate options to buff the team when an Auto isn't around. (You could also look to Overwatch's Torbjorn and Mercy respectively for ideas, though I wouldn't argue if you wanted to make Roll and Auto not that derivative from their original TF2 classes or their Overwatch counterparts.)

If I also remember, Star's class project did give various ways for all the classes, even the offensive ones, methods of supporting their teammates.

As for hale ideas, I did make a list of some ideas for Hales, mostly ones ported over from Freak Fortress but altered significantly to more resemble what they'd do in their home series (instead of just having basic OHKO melees). I also had the idea of "Reverse Hales" where one player becomes a random Hale while all the survivors morph into lesser, weaker Hales, sometimes led by a Hale of their own.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on June 27, 2016, 02:24:04 AM
I am interested in seeing this get picked up again. I'm pretty much in agreement with Medal and Badz, as they summed up the general gameplay tweaks better than I could. But I do have some personal opinions on each of the bosses.

(click to show/hide)


Though you're probably not gonna wanna look into new bosses anytime soon, I've still got my list of ideas if you're interested.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Superjustinbros on June 27, 2016, 03:21:04 AM
If anyone wants them here's the DuckTales 2 sounds, at least the counterparts to those that are used alongside the hale itself.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l152d716fi8vq ... s.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l152d716fi8vqby/Duck%202%20sounds.zip?dl=0)
As I said my idea would be to play his existing DuckTales (1) sounds on one round then switch to DuckTales 2 sounds on another round. (Unless the ability to pick different sound sets per match via roulette can't be done)
Title: Midnight ramblings, I apoligize if it isn't coherent
Post by: Isaac940 on June 27, 2016, 04:36:41 AM
Is it important that each of the survivors (is that what the term for the non-boss team is?) has just one life? I'd think reworking the boss battles with a concept similar to what the Light vs Wily beta had would improve things. Make it so that survivors respawn but each death moves a gauge one step closer to boss victory, while the boss has to just die once for survivor victory. You can then make it the norm that bosses are extremely effective and survivors will die a lot, and being caught in an ultimate move that's almost impossible to dodge cause you decided to join the fight at precisely the wrong time won't be as frustrating. Players wouldn't be sitting there waiting for the round to end when they died (especially annoying when whoops lol spawned next to ohko boss) and it could help with survivors trying to stall out the game. If some speed dude is just pinging you for tiny amounts and running away while his buddy the glass cannon is actively trying to fight you, you can simply ignore the ineffective dude and punch the points out of the power dude.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: RifleGod on June 27, 2016, 10:18:16 AM
Unholy is really good, but Saxton just beats it in every category.

REVIVE IT
Title: Re: Midnight ramblings, I apoligize if it isn't coherent
Post by: Superjustinbros on June 28, 2016, 12:21:33 AM
Quote from: "Isaac940"
Is it important that each of the survivors (is that what the term for the non-boss team is?) has just one life? I'd think reworking the boss battles with a concept similar to what the Light vs Wily beta had would improve things. Make it so that survivors respawn but each death moves a gauge one step closer to boss victory, while the boss has to just die once for survivor victory. You can then make it the norm that bosses are extremely effective and survivors will die a lot, and being caught in an ultimate move that's almost impossible to dodge cause you decided to join the fight at precisely the wrong time won't be as frustrating. Players wouldn't be sitting there waiting for the round to end when they died (especially annoying when whoops lol spawned next to ohko boss) and it could help with survivors trying to stall out the game. If some speed dude is just pinging you for tiny amounts and running away while his buddy the glass cannon is actively trying to fight you, you can simply ignore the ineffective dude and punch the points out of the power dude.

As an option that would be interesting to see, though I think most would prefer just having one life per standard.

A way it could work is if a server has lives set up, each survivor is counted for every life they have when the Hale's starting HP is calculated, while the hale(s) always has 1 life and if just one is lost, the Hale will be rigged to stay dead.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 29, 2016, 01:57:03 AM
Just mentioning that since yesterday, I have started working on SH again. While a new release won't be out anytime soon, progress is being made to both add in some suggestions I have received as well as get a very outdated version of Saxton Hale more up to date, though that part is still wip. I'm looking for some people that have ideas for a new set of classes for SH, and/or want to make said classes. I'm afraid I do not have much to say regarding my expectations, cause I want to hear from everyone what the new classes should be like. The only comment provided for me so far was if there would be a healer (or medic) in the set, which I see no problems having a class be like that. I want some more input on what could be done regarding the player classes in the game. Otherwise, I guess that's all I have to say for now since I'm focusing on updating the game to work well both with TLMS and with the current version of MM8BDM. Porting over content from other SH mods would be the next focus after I consider the mod stable enough.

EDIT: I should mention that I'm experimenting with Isaac's idea, since I think that would provide a different take on the old everyone versus boss formula. That might change the way classes are viewed in some way, so there you go.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on June 29, 2016, 02:24:12 AM
I would say team based classes would be very well suited here, but I'd say make that a different version (or even just it's own class mod like I've been coming up with ideas for over in WIP's ideas thread), so that people can use whichever class mod they wish with it.
As for bosses, personally I say "Less meme bosses" since they usually run their course.
More Mega Man themed bosses would be nice. Sunstar, King, Wily Capsule, etc. Problem with that is when classes are loaded telling who is the boss and who isn't, which is where custom classes would come in handy since you don't need to have them use skins matching bosses, or if those classes are Mega Man characters not having the bosses show up as playable classes.
More diverse modes of combat for them I also agree upon, having them feel more appropriate then all having melee outside the ones who would use them anyway.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (Saxton Hale revival?)
Post by: Superjustinbros on June 29, 2016, 04:38:27 AM
For me, I think the big targets would be to use less "Memetic Mutation" and have more ranged Hales, along with a builder/healer with more offensive presence.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)
Post by: TailsMK4 on October 03, 2016, 07:33:30 PM
I know this thread hasn't been updated in some time, but due to new real life responsibilities, I have not done any work for some time. I am now in my first semester of graduate school and will have a decent workload to work with. Due to this, I have not even touched the revised Saxton Hale in some time. So while I do not have anything to present at this time (and not for a while), I will just present the rest of what I have to say in a question and answer format.

What is the current status of the project?

On hiatus for the time being. I may work on it whenever I do not have much work to do, but I would not expect major progress for a while.

When will this come out?

Best guess is at least after V6 of MM8BDM. I do not have much of a team to work with, and I have little time and will to work on the project. Therefore I cannot give even an accurate guess at this time. So I do not get misquoted, there is no release date planned at this time. Not only that, there is still a lot of progress to be made before I can even allow the team's beta-testers to help out.

Any content coming from other SH mods?

Yes, a good amount of content from SHR++ will be in here, as well as from other SH mods. In particular, my impression was that all bosses except for NeoDS and Slenderman will return regarding bosses from SHR++. Some of them have been ported, others have been started on, but not fully usable, and others have not been started at all. I cannot recall what bosses were being worked on by the time I stopped doing work on it.

Wait, so this means you're not adding onto SHR++?

That is correct, SHR++'s code is very confusing to work with, not to mention has quite a lot of bugs in it, so I will be modeling it off what remained of Rebirth prior to the merge with Stardust. The last public hotfix to SHR++ also introduced concerns about servers unable to continue hosting the mod after some number of battles (I have determined the crashing issue to not be related with either Talbain or Slenderman darkness gimmicks, but rather memory issues). Rebirth is a lot more stable, but outdated, so it made more sense to work with that and apply some of the stuff that R++ introduced later. I have permission to use SHR++ as I see fit from Stardust, in case anyone is wondering if I'm doing is ok. Much of the boss behavior and such will be ported from SHR++, though, so think of SHR++'s bosses but in a much more stable mod (there are a few exceptions where some bosses will be done from scratch).

So what's been done so far?

I don't recall everything I've done, but among the things I do remember:

-Had people start work on a new set of classes that focused around teamwork (not Teamwork Classes or Teamstyle). I haven't checked on the people in a while, and I doubt much work got done since I stopped working since the people doing them have other projects. I'll check with them at a later time.
-Implemented a major gameplay change that still is the LMS format of the battles, but changes the pace of the matches to be quicker.
-Changed how bosses are controlled so more attacks can be added to each boss. I'll talk more about this once the project is much further along.

I can't give an accurate percentage of how much work has been done, but I would say the basic gameplay of the mod is almost done. The bosses and classes are nowhere near finished, though. I also want to add a few new bosses once all of this is done, so I'd say I've probably done 10% of everything I've wanted to do before the first release. Yeah, it's going to be a while, and for the time being I'm soloing the entire effort (aside from classes and a few bosses other team members said they were going to do). I might ask again for more help from the community later if there's interest.


I think that's all for now, I'll edit or post later if I think of anything else. Basically, don't expect much progress to be made for a while unless I get some Decorate help (ACS I can handle myself), and I cannot think of anything that a spriter can help with, and MAYBE a bonus feature in the future is for mappers to design maps around a boss's theme. This is all theoretical, however.

EDIT:

Are you accepting new boss ideas at this time?

No, due to how little progress the mod has made so far. I'd rather not promise something then continue to stay quiet for months. I am not accepting boss requests until I am at the point where I can work on new bosses, and that will not be for a while. Now changes or enhancements to bosses from other SH mods...I probably wouldn't look at it for a while, but you can leave it here if you wish. I just will not look into new bosses for a while.
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)
Post by: TailsMK4 on December 01, 2016, 08:05:11 AM
So yeah, still no news on the mod itself, but I figure I may as well just say that I probably won't maintain this thread anymore since my interest in modding in general is pretty much gone, plus I want to keep my plate fairly empty. With that said, though, I have created a new Discord server for Saxton Hale, which will also include discussions on the mod I'm working on. For anyone interested, here it is:

https://discord.gg/WR9dvTp

Further updates regarding the mod will be mentioned on Discord. Hope to see many of you there!
Title: Re: TMK4's Workshop (News regarding grad life and, oh, Saxton Hale too)
Post by: SaviorSword on December 02, 2016, 01:22:22 AM
No worries, now to join the brotherhood of ghostliness soon!