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Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch => Bugs/Suggestions => MM8BDM Discussion => Rejected => Topic started by: Knux on May 01, 2013, 07:45:26 PM

Title: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on May 01, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
MM2AIR

You know those Goblin actors that can be seen when going up the side stairs in the square sections? How about getting the impassable lines out of the way so that people can platform their way to the side? It's annoying enough having to watch out for pits, then there's homing weapons in the map, too. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd like another way out of the square sections from which I can see what awaits me instead being of paranoid of an Air Shooter to the face when going up the stairs to the middle.

MM7DW3

Actually, the map is pretty good. One of my favorites, in fact. Although ever since v2a was released, I've been thinking that the large, open area with Rolling Cutter and Freeze Cracker (Is it? Forgot the other one...) could use some cover. Maybe a pillar in the middle between them, or one for each. That would also give Rolling Cutter places to bounce off from.

MM4BRI

Just remembered this one. Because of all the jumping here, fighting is kinda difficult. Since this is pretty much all of the stage, expanding the size of the large steps might not be such a bad idea. Otherwise, just place run-by steps in their middles and/or sides for easier travel. Scorch Wheel is an excellent offensive weapon here, but the jumping hampers the speed boost.

I think I had others, but that should be it for now.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on May 02, 2013, 12:34:22 AM
I definitely agree about Airman. I've always wanted to be able to jump on those things.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: CutmanMike on May 02, 2013, 12:38:23 AM
I added those lines because I felt jumping on those huge billdboarded sprites broke the immersion a little, I guess they can be taken out. Brightman probably needs some tweaks/replacing.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: DarkAura on May 02, 2013, 12:40:13 AM
Do ya think it's possible for the textures in MM4BRI, other than it immediately switching the lights on/off at the snap of a finger, to fade to/from black instead?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on May 02, 2013, 08:47:07 PM
The thing with that is that the blackouts aren't really a brightness change. What the script for it does is replace the textures with the "BLACK" texture. If it was to be done gradually, they'd need to make whole sets of dim textures just for something that will be seen for a second or two at best, so yeah. Too much work for something better looking.

Since we're talking about MM4BRI, I think that the dim steps used in MM4BRIX would be a great idea (especially since there's a pit in the stage).

...Perhaps removing the impassable lines on the Goblins might not be such a good idea after all. Because they're sprites, it's difficult to tell where their size starts and ends. Two other things, in that case:

1. Stairs or jump blocks.

2. Use the Goblin textures that Nemz made to make 3D platforms. May clash with the textures, but it makes it more obvious that it's a platform. This way, you can leave the actor Goblins blocked to prevent confusion.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Russel on May 02, 2013, 09:01:20 PM
Well...you could just take the sprites used in the game already to make textures to use for Platforms. With this being the case, all that would be needed is a top/bottom texture and then it would all be set to make as 3D Platforms. Not to mention, it would make the things look fantastic compared to what we have currently.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Kapus on May 03, 2013, 12:06:07 AM
Yeah, I'd like to try that out and see how well it looks.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Korby on May 03, 2013, 12:08:21 AM
iirc, the unblockable linedefs on airman's goblin heads were added because way back in the day, item-1 users got up on there and zombies in roboenza couldn't reach them.

granted I could be wrong, especially considering mike put a reason here
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on May 03, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
I added those lines because I felt jumping on those huge billdboarded sprites broke the immersion a little, I guess they can be taken out. Brightman probably needs some tweaks/replacing.
You know... Considering 3D floors works fine, couldn't you turn the Airgoblins into 3D floors? after all, they just sit there.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on May 03, 2013, 12:10:54 PM
I'm gonna check every core map today and see what else I can remember. For now though:

MM6WIN

I like the map, but going down the stairs into a dead end... I don't know, it doesn't feel quite right. I've gotten used to it, but it could be better. There is an Exit Unit and some hard hitting weapons in that basement (Water Wave, Power Stone), but that means only one person can get out safely unless the opponent delays them with Wind Storm. It's not bad, but if it were me, I would place stairs to the sides, with platforms for the power weapons. So that means they have to jump the middle stairs, and just run up the side ones. Walls would be great if this were to be done, just to prevent falling into pits (and look good).

Every DM I've played in the stage almost always results in a Power Stone war, which is hilarious. Not anyone's fault, either.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: CutmanMike on May 03, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Someone can go ahead and try to make one of the goblins 3d if they want to give it a go, I'm not sure how you'd make it look good though.

Also korby raises a good point, maybe that's why I did it  :ugeek:
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on May 03, 2013, 06:53:50 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
Someone can go ahead and try to make one of the goblins 3d
Sure, no problem. Though it'll have to wait until later when I get home.

EDIT: So what I did was turn the Goblins into textures that go on 3D floors. They look extremely ugly, so I made some stairs too. You can go for either idea, and not need to use the Goblin textures. I did this on a hurry because I'm so tired, but that's the general gist of it. For the top of the Goblin blocks, I used a texture made by Nemz and gave it the light blue color instead of gray for the cloud afro. I also had to edit the side ones because they were a bit too big. But again, the blocks look ugly anyway. I'd replace them with the normal Air Man textures. At least they're easy to climb!

Look on the bottom half of the map on both sides. That's where I made the changes.

http://www.mediafire.com/?2t5uzuhttusa9og (http://www.mediafire.com/?2t5uzuhttusa9og)

Also, worthy of noting: Software fucks up the top texture of the Goblin blocks for some reason, though they look fine on GL.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on November 04, 2013, 10:13:13 PM
Gigantular bump, but I need this brought to attention.
(click to show/hide)
The dead end room in MM4SKU needs more paths to help the flow of the game, and also to discourage camping.

How many (insert weapon here) walls have we had there, now...?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Kapus on November 05, 2013, 12:15:26 AM
If Skullman was a map made for an official expansion today, I think it would probably be frowned upon because of this dead end. I'm in agreement.

I think a lot of old maps sort of get away with conventions that are out of favor now simply because they are old.  I doubt maps as simple (and obnoxious) as MM4BRI or MM6PLA would be accepted today. A map such as MM1ICE might also be seen as too linear. I guess this is why we have been going back and changing some of these old maps to fit today's standards (MM3MAG being a good example).
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Balrog on November 05, 2013, 12:49:31 AM
MM4SKU is the way it is because it's a remake of MAP01 of Dwango5. That is a very old map. It's also a classic, though, so I'd rather dislike any changes from that.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on November 05, 2013, 12:58:07 AM
I'm all for changes as long as it makes them more playable. Or in this case, tolerable.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Kapus on November 05, 2013, 01:01:55 AM
Quote from: "Balrog"
MM4SKU is the way it is because it's a remake of MAP01 of Dwango5. That is a very old map. It's also a classic, though, so I'd rather dislike any changes from that.
I know. This is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say: It gets a pass for being an old grandpa map (in this case, much older than any of the other maps I gave examples of).

I don't dislike the map by any means (one of my favorites), but I think it could be tweaked a bit to help the general map flow.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: CutmanMike on November 05, 2013, 02:35:29 AM
Yeah it could be changed really. It was originally made as a nod/stab at the skulltag community and doesn't flow too great and probably not even that good in duels if skull barrier is allowed.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: TheDoc on November 05, 2013, 03:03:56 AM
Regarding Windman's stage (i know it was a while ago) I'd wait for this
Quote from: "Ivory"
(click to show/hide)
to come out first before suggesting changes.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on November 05, 2013, 03:19:52 AM
What is that? Wind Man Remixed?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Ivory on November 05, 2013, 03:25:42 AM
No, the new core Wind Man stage for v4a.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on November 05, 2013, 10:00:14 PM
wait, Windman map will be "remade", right? (if i understand well english).
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Ivory on November 05, 2013, 10:42:50 PM
All of this and more in your MM8BDM v4a public thread.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Lieutenant? Sexy on November 05, 2013, 11:27:05 PM
Please, if you're going to ruin Skullman, at least do it very minorly. Paths running parallel to the current one to skull barrier room or something similar.
Please, I beg of you, don't pull another Geminiman.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Messatsu on November 05, 2013, 11:56:46 PM
Right, time to add frickin laserbeams to Skull Man!

No, seriously, what's wrong with Gemini?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: fortegigasgospel on November 06, 2013, 12:15:23 AM
All they did to Gemini was add more and make it bigger. I had no problems with the old one but even I'll admit it was too small (cept for duels).
Skull is literally the first stage of Doom2 with the ability to go into what was the outside in the map. So improvements would be good for it.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Kapus on November 06, 2013, 12:44:45 AM
Quote from: "Lieutenant? Sexy"
Please, if you're going to ruin Skullman, at least do it very minorly. Paths running parallel to the current one to skull barrier room or something similar.
Please, I beg of you, don't pull another Geminiman.
While I think Gemini Man's change did more good than bad, Skull Man does not really need such a large overhaul in its design. Adding an extra pathway or two would suffice.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Megaman94 on January 03, 2014, 04:14:13 AM
Quote from: "Knux"
Gigantular bump, but I need this brought to attention.
(click to show/hide)
The dead end room in MM4SKU needs more paths to help the flow of the game, and also to discourage camping.

How many (insert weapon here) walls have we had there, now...?

What do you guys think of the Ballade Cracker in MM4SKU?
Doesn't that lead you into a dead end room too?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Knux on February 04, 2014, 03:33:59 PM
Late reply, but this has already been discussed. Ballade Cracker where it is in MM4SKU is a matter of risk VS reward.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: TheMetalManu on February 04, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
Don't take my word on this but, as far I remember, in the original map (the one that MM4SKU is based of), the "BFG9000" was there, so I'm guessing that was intentional. Also, some optional paths in the Skull Barrier room wouldn't hurt, right?
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Ivory on February 04, 2014, 04:51:01 PM
I already added a new optional path to skull barrier, perhaps another depending on how things go.
Title: Re: [Suggestions] MM2AIR and MM7DW3 (Maybe others, too)
Post by: Ivory on February 10, 2014, 08:01:50 PM
Actually, I'm just going to close this topic because I would prefer all mapping talk to be in the thread I created for talking about maps. (http://cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6152)