Cutstuff Forum

Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch => MM8BDM Discussion => Topic started by: Emmanuelf06 on June 16, 2013, 07:11:37 PM

Title: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 16, 2013, 07:11:37 PM
I noticed, some friends who learnt how to play MM8BDM class mode in the stands I made for the conventions are really happy to see how a fangame can be awesome!
A lot think it's a good game, some guys want really learn to be good at this game, but they start....and the problem is:
The guy who dont accept the news gamers because some guys of the community are to closed (strong or not, they are not nice with them).

Like the youtube videos who showed MM8BDM, and give us, new gamers; what is the problem?

If you want play with only your little group, go made a private server.

For the others servers, why some guys insult the new gamers? They learn, you weren't so good when you started the game.

There is really a problem with the guys who are CLOSED to the new gamers and insult them. No-tolerant.

A friend was called "mexican" and others things ect.....(hoooo it's not racist at all.) and others things, it's a shame, if you want degusted people from MM8BDM, you can do that, but when your friends will go to League of Legend or Counter Strike, you will be alone, see? We need all the people to make this game (mm8bdm) awesome.

This game has a huge potential and can be liked by a lot of people.
An old friend who played mm8bdm (correct level but however), want to play this game again (since 2years) but he knows how closed are some guys.

MM8BDM can be a good thing to show how is the megaman serie. I try to make some Megaman 8 bits deathmatch Stand/Place to show how awesome is this game to FRENCH people (and not mexican WTF) and you break that.

I won't say any names but I think, you understand, yes, guys, some guys kill the potential of the community.

MM8BDM, it's not only the guys who are there since the beginning of mm8BDM, it's not only for progamers (or pro of airman/needleman hahaha!)

No education and no passion, you try to be mad with the new players for what? Just to do a superficial show off. (like a guy who used a nazi name but nobody kicked him because he is a strong duelist (skullman guy).

Anyways, sorry for my english

Some guys can become good like you guys. Just try to be fair.
I hope the best for MM8BDM but for the Megaman Serie too.
Title: Fudge.
Post by: Mendez on June 16, 2013, 08:12:53 PM
Calling someone Mexican is like calling you French. You are from France, right? So you're French. It's not racist, it's simply pointing out your nationality. Although if I were to say "All French MM8BDM players are not good at MM8BDM",and this is true to an extent, then THAT would be racism.
As for bringing new blood into the community, a few folks and I had a pretty good conversation about it last night. I remember that someone said that the reason the community is nearly dead is because Mike doesn't care about this project anymore, although I'm not entirely convinced that's true. I told them that the game needs more innovative mods and map packs, although goodness knows that it will just end up being played to death for weeks on end.
One thing that I want to talk about is how hard it is for new players to get online. Simply having a button that says "Get Doomseeker" isn't enough. I honestly want Doomseeker to come pre-packaged in every new copy of MM8BDM, as well as a text/image tutorial on using Doomseeker to get online. That way, people can get online without having to go to other sites. If we have the opportunity to simplify the process from downloading to playing, why not take that opportunity? Also, I'd love a blank folder for skins, with a text file included on where/how to acquire skins. Streamline this game, yo.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 16, 2013, 08:36:22 PM
The matter at hand, Mendez, is that there are some players that are very hostile in game, specially against campers, and won't hesitate in insulting. So we have to discourage this hostility against new players. At least, that is what I'm almost sure Stonefunk meant.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 16, 2013, 08:59:56 PM
I posted this when homies started rolling in, but it's still relevant here.

Quote
This could be a bad thing.

Allow me to tell you the sad tale of Sonic Robo Blast 2. A fangame started by SSNTails and Sonic Team Jr. to build the 3D Sonic game Sega was too incompetent to make, it was slowly cobbled together from the Doom Legacy engine. Demo after demo was released, and a community formed around the development process. These people were united by their desire to see a classic Sonic game in 3D that they could be proud of. However, the message boards' membership was composed of, as one regular put it, "90% 8-year-olds, 8% lurkers, 1.9% oldbies, and 0.1% people actually able to contribute to this project." (Paraphrasing here; I can't find the original thread.) The community still managed to keep together, more or less, since the 8-year-olds, having the attention span of 8-year-olds, soon vanished after asking their questions and abandoning their stupidly overconfident expansion ideas.

Soon, the developers realized that the official maps had become outclassed by what the game's active modding community (many of the members of which were also developers) was putting out; a revamp was in order. After three years of feverish development and polishing, SRB2 2.0 was released, marking a new standard for mods. 2.0 also marked the point that the old guard had begun to outgrow the game - SSNTails was now a married man, and with a baby on the way he couldn't spare the time needed to steer the development of a Sonic game. Furthermore, the strong push to get 2.0 out had pushed the ragtag Sky Sanctuary Team to its limit, leaving them completely burnt out. Lastly, the markedly increased quality of 2.0's maps revealed an unsettling truth - only a handful of people actually had the talent to meet the community's standards, most of whom had expended all of their creative energy working on the release. Things began to wind down.

Then, the tipping point was reached. Spazzo, a developer and moderator, had become frustrated with the lack of progress on the next version of SRB2, and lashed out against Sky Sanctuary. The exact details escape my memory, but the issue first became apparent to the community when Spazzo began sending private messages to message board regulars, telling them a distorted picture and encouraging them to raise hell. The end result - Spazzo was made a persona non grata (albeit recently admitted to the MB) and people began to realize that the game and community had stagnated. It's by no means a ghost town, and things are improving - the noobs keep rolling in, the oldbies still make small talk, a few decent mods have been put out, and STJr. has made some encouraging progress towards 2.1 - but the sense that the game is in its twilight years remains.
Still don't believe me? Get a load of this guy. (http://mb.srb2.org/search.php?searchid=841951) By my calculations, this is what a plurality of MM8BDM downloaders look like. Call me elitist, but having posts like those clogging up the forums and the servers would not make me a happy camper. So, while making getting online easier should be a goal, it should not be thoughtlessly easy.

Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: -Daiki-TheOni on June 16, 2013, 09:17:40 PM
Stonefunk, I,m with you, out there, in the online lands, some players try to seem "le creme de le creme" but they fall in the dark side, and they begin to say bad things against mexicans, new players, girls, etc....
But we can't do too much..... well we can encourage people to be friendly with the other players, but, ¿how?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Laggy Blazko on June 16, 2013, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: "Balrog"
Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.
LOL balrog mad for bad english.
--
I always think getting new people would be funny. The "bad"/"immature" new people on the forums only would make me laugh and they would get banned before becoming a real threat.
I liked the homie incident. Fragging new players is funny and getting fragged by them is interesting, IMO.
But meh, I think the people that managed to play online is the people that actually wanted to.

PS: I think i've seen more mexican people than french in MM8BDM.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Max on June 16, 2013, 09:24:07 PM
I notice that a lot of players who are 'scared off' the game aren't actually scared off by people on the forum, more so those who play the game a lot and don't really use the forum at all. That, combined with the difficulty of getting into populated servers due to mods really makes it hard to become an active member of the community. I'm sure there are lots of players who enjoyed singleplayer but just didn't join the community afterwards. Keep pushing and advertising for new players!

Quote from: "Balrog"
Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.

He's French, he tried his best.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Orange juice :l on June 16, 2013, 09:35:00 PM
What if we hosted a server dedicated to new players? :ugeek:

Full vanilla, no "shutting down" the server by bulldozing the new players, provide help with the game, etc etc.

The only problem is that not all new players would see this new server. The best option I could think of would be a button on the launcher labeled "Newcomer server" or something similar that would automatically connect you to it, but it'd need to be a server that never moved ever. Best-Ever tends to axe servers that aren't used and sometimes they just explode the server lists, so we'd need to get a port reserved which seems rather unlikely.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Tengu on June 16, 2013, 09:43:55 PM
One of the main issues I'm seeing is that there are only two groups of active people for the most part right now.


The first group being the "Let's play Saxton Hale and never leave the server ever" group, which isn't awful because a lot of the people that play in there are very nice people for the most part. The problem is that it doesn't give new players the chance to experience other game modes, like vanilla, online with other players.


The second group would be the "Go to any given server and spectate so we can role play." I personally think that it's just ridiculous to occupy a server to give someone the illusion that you're playing, then to just go in there and see "Here let me give you a hug XD XD XD." (yes, I do see this) Imagine a new player seeing, for instance, Grandvoid's DM server. They'll go in wanting to play DM online, and what they'll find is that they'll be playing alone because the other 7 people in the server just want to spectate and roleplay. I say if you're going to do that, make your own server and password lock it.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 16, 2013, 10:10:20 PM
Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
One of the main issues I'm seeing is that there are only two groups of active people for the most part right now.


The first group being the "Let's play Saxton Hale and never leave the server ever" group, which isn't awful because a lot of the people that play in there are very nice people for the most part. The problem is that it doesn't give new players the chance to experience other game modes, like vanilla, online with other players.
This is true, sadly. I think this is because you can still get a "you win!" in these modes without contributing anything or having any real skill.

Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
The second group would be the "Go to any given server and spectate so we can role play." I personally think that it's just ridiculous to occupy a server to give someone the illusion that you're playing, then to just go in there and see "Here let me give you a hug XD XD XD." (yes, I do see this) Imagine a new player seeing, for instance, Grandvoid's DM server. They'll go in wanting to play DM online, and what they'll find is that they'll be playing alone because the other 7 people in the server just want to spectate and roleplay. I say if you're going to do that, make your own server and password lock it.
Wait, people are still doing this? I thought that scourge got nuked when the "Vampire Wedding Crasher" fiasco made Flanny go nuts.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: *Alice on June 16, 2013, 10:46:15 PM
Is it *that* hard to not be a complete jerkface?

Why do some people assume that every new player could be a threat and is a bad thing because of that.

Players doing things you don't like are of course something you may feel free to dislike, but being a complete jerk about it and automatically seeing every new player as something bad is seriously not a good thing to do.

People stalling in Saxton Hale are not a "threat to the community" or a "threat to the overall enjoyment of the game". It is not like we have other servers. And if playing Saxton Hale means taking the risk of some people making rounds last too long, so be it.

I might only have been here for about 20 months, but from what I have seen this community has become worse as time went on. The whole homie thing really showed me that some of the people here are just newbie-phobes. If a player is new and maybe doing things that appear wrong to you, just let them figure it out for themselves, or maybe mention it to them in a friendly and civilized way. But it is no reason to complain about it on the forums.

And I 100% agree that the game should be easier to use. The whole multiplayer requiring additional programs and configurations are flaws. Not "features that protect us against the threat of new players that - god forbid - could do something wrong and worst of all STALL IN SAXTON HALE MODE". If you think so, you're just an idiot.
Of course, it is debatable if spending a lot of time and resources to somehow integrate both things together is really worth it. But for the love of god, do not make that a political issue.

I don't recall people bitching endlessly about players using cheap tactics two years ago when Roboenza was the most popular thing around. So why are some people complaining about something similar now? And why so much?

The whole Roleplayer thing however, that should - in my opinion - just die outright. But not wanting there to be new players just because they could make your match of Saxton Hale mode boring ... is the dumbest form of stupidity.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Kapus on June 16, 2013, 10:53:50 PM
Quote from: "Balrog"
Wait, people are still doing this? I thought that scourge got nuked when the "Vampire Wedding Crasher" fiasco made Flanny go nuts.
It's not Flanny or any of the other Touhou roleplayers. I believe it's Giantmega and her friends.

I haven't played in a while due to the aforementioned Saxton Hale servers. Saxton Hale is not a game mode I enjoy, and I usually don't have the time/patience to wait in an empty server until people come. My interest in MM8BDM in general is slowly waning, due to the lack of interesting community activity. (I am slowly working at my new map pack, though. I want to get that done.)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Orange juice :l on June 16, 2013, 11:06:11 PM
I don't play Shadowman anymore because I get kicked for stalling every time I do.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 16, 2013, 11:07:34 PM
Quote from: "Yellow Devil"
I notice that a lot of players who are 'scared off' the game aren't actually scared off by people on the forum, more so those who play the game a lot and don't really use the forum at all. That, combined with the difficulty of getting into populated servers due to mods really makes it hard to become an active member of the community. I'm sure there are lots of players who enjoyed singleplayer but just didn't join the community afterwards. Keep pushing and advertising for new players!

Quote from: "Balrog"
Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.

He's French, he tried his best.

Yeah thanks, i will continue. For the power of the megaman serie and mm8bdm !  :cool:

I think, I become too crazy and stress too much for nothing.
Mendez => Indeed, I think it was like a racist insult (specially for the friend who didn't understand). Lol, I was like "WTF!"
Balrog => I understand but there nis not only bad players, no? The guys who like really the game, they will continue to play.

Simple servers can be good for them, yeah....

Sorry guys but i had some problems....i will continue to do some MM8BDM stands, but i was afraid if we can't accept the new players who like really this game (not like the guys, balrog said).
It's ok :)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 16, 2013, 11:08:57 PM
Quote from: "Orange juice :l"
I don't play Shadowman anymore because I get kicked for stalling every time I do.
Reminds me when I used to play ShadowMan in classes before he got his passive camo removed. It was often I'd see votekicks claiming I was stalling, when I was in fact sneaking toward the other last surviving player.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Tengu on June 16, 2013, 11:46:19 PM
Quote from: "*Alice"
Players doing things you don't like are of course something you may feel free to dislike, but being a complete jerk about it and automatically seeing every new player as something bad is seriously not a good thing to do.

First impressions are everything. If a player I've never seen before comes into server, I'll welcome them with open arms. If they call me a faggot after I frag them, do you think I'm going to treat them nicely? If they just simply get mad, I'll try to be like "Oh hey, it's just a game don't worry." But if they're outright rude, then no.

Quote from: "*Alice"
People stalling in Saxton Hale are not a "threat to the community" or a "threat to the overall enjoyment of the game". It is not like we have other servers. And if playing Saxton Hale means taking the risk of some people making rounds last too long, so be it.

Actually, I would indeed call it a threat to the community. If a new player joins Saxton Hale, odds are they'll die pretty quick. And if a round takes the full 10 minutes or whatever to finish, do you really think they're gonna wanna stick around? They could just go to a different serv-- OH WAIT!! There ARE no other servers to go to! Goodbye MM8BDM, it was fun!

Quote from: "*Alice"
If a player is new and maybe doing things that appear wrong to you, just let them figure it out for themselves, or maybe mention it to them in a friendly and civilized way. But it is no reason to complain about it on the forums.

Actually, most complaints I see about 'trolling' in servers on the forums is a new player complaining about an already existing player in-game. And to be fair, sometimes they're just over-reacting. Do I think it's right for a new player to get beat on? No. Do I think they should react a little less? Yes.

Quote from: "*Alice"
And I 100% agree that the game should be easier to use. The whole multiplayer requiring additional programs and configurations are flaws. Not "features that protect us against the threat of new players that - god forbid - could do something wrong and worst of all STALL IN SAXTON HALE MODE". If you think so, you're just an idiot.
Of course, it is debatable if spending a lot of time and resources to somehow integrate both things together is really worth it.

Packaging Doomseeker into the .ZIP file with the game and stalling in Saxton Hale aren't even related. You also just said you 100% agree that the game should be easier to use, but then you said it's debatable if it's worth it.

Quote from: "*Alice"
I don't recall people bitching endlessly about players using cheap tactics two years ago when Roboenza was the most popular thing around. So why are some people complaining about something similar now? And why so much?

Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale. Also in my memory, back when Roboenza was popular, there was almost always more servers up usually hosting vanilla that other people could go to. And they actually had people in them.

Quote from: "*Alice"
The whole Roleplayer thing however, that should - in my opinion - just die outright. But not wanting there to be new players just because they could make your match of Saxton Hale mode boring ... is the dumbest form of stupidity.

When did someone ever say "I don't want new players because they make Sax boring."? The problem I have with this is that we should worry more about getting players involved into the core of the game, vanilla, instead of giving them one option and one option only (This being Saxton Hale). Please, please, envision yourself being a new player. You figure out the works of playing online and all the jazz, and you get on Doomseeker. What do you see? empty servers everywhere except for two classes saxton hale servers. They're both the same so you're bound to get bored with one after a while. You decide to play a different mode, so you wait in a DM server for a while and what happens? One guy shows up and tosses your shit three times so you get upset and play offline. You get bored with offline so you say "Fuck this game." And never touch it again.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Gumballtoid on June 17, 2013, 12:03:11 AM
Let me just open up Doomseeker for a moment. Here we have the aforementioned Saxton Hale server, full as usual. Scroll down and we see two roleplayers, spectating of course, in the Grandvoid server. Below that is a server hosting wads that are probably buried within the depths of Cutstuff. Further below is a test server for a rarely-played mod. And then there's a vanilla server with a few unfamiliar faces.

Fuck. Better join the full server: Saxton Hale.

Shit, I died early in the round. Sure wish the match could proceed. Oh, but, what's this? It appears there are a few stalling players delaying the match. ...Hrm, really tired of waiting. Fuck this, I could be doing better things. Bye, server.

Scale that appropriately and you get the idea.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: *Alice on June 17, 2013, 12:03:49 AM
Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
Quote from: "*Alice"
And I 100% agree that the game should be easier to use. The whole multiplayer requiring additional programs and configurations are flaws. Not "features that protect us against the threat of new players that - god forbid - could do something wrong and worst of all STALL IN SAXTON HALE MODE". If you think so, you're just an idiot.
Of course, it is debatable if spending a lot of time and resources to somehow integrate both things together is really worth it.

Packaging Doomseeker into the .ZIP file with the game and stalling in Saxton Hale aren't even related. You also just said you 100% agree that the game should be easier to use, but then you said it's debatable if it's worth it.
It was a comment about this:
Quote from: "Balrog"
So, while making getting online easier should be a goal, it should not be thoughtlessly easy.
He basically made the correction of a flaw a political issue and I felt that a comment about that would be necessary.

Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
Quote from: "*Alice"
I don't recall people bitching endlessly about players using cheap tactics two years ago when Roboenza was the most popular thing around. So why are some people complaining about something similar now? And why so much?

Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale. Also in my memory, back when Roboenza was popular, there was almost always more servers up usually hosting vanilla that other people could go to. And they actually had people in them.
I still find it incredibly disturbing that nobody realizes that we actually do have vanilla servers and even multiple of them. The only thing is that nobody is playing there at times.
If you want proof, here you go:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Gumballtoid on June 17, 2013, 12:06:49 AM
Most new players are naturally inclined to join servers with more players. Guess what server usually has the most?

The big daddy, Saxton Hale.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Davregis on June 17, 2013, 12:07:13 AM
Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
Well, that might be because this has been going on longer than Roboenza if I recall correctly. Also, excuse my opinion, but I think that a new player can benefit more from playing Roboenza more than they can from playing Saxton Hale.

How do you figure this?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ceridran on June 17, 2013, 12:07:26 AM
Quote from: "Gumballtoid"
Let me just open up Doomseeker for a moment. Here we have the aforementioned Saxton Hale server, full as usual. Scroll down and we see two roleplayers, spectating of course, in the Grandvoid server. Below that is a server hosting wads that are probably buried within the depths of Cutstuff. Further below is a test server for a rarely-played mod. And then there's a vanilla server with a few unfamiliar faces.

Fuck. Better join the full server: Saxton Hale.

Shit, I died early in the round. Sure wish the match could proceed. Oh, but, what's this? It appears there are a few stalling players delaying the match. ...Hrm, really tired of waiting. Fuck this, I could be doing better things. Bye, server.

Scale that appropriately and you get the idea.

You summed up EEEVVEERRYYYTTHHIIINGG that happens when I, and pretty much everybody else plays this game.

I would love to see more Vanilla TDM. That is great. Also doesn't make new players feel bad just because they didn't win: they're more likely to win because it's a team game.

Preferably TDM with forced autoselect and no switching.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 17, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
There's also the fact that:
LMS/TLMS: Some matches can take more than 10 minutes to end
DM/TDM: Can be fun, but will get dull after you play long enough
CTF: Honestly, I find these pretty boring
Classes: In general, they are kinda big and not really balanced, which ruins the mood. Also, I have been getting crashes from it since the "V3A compatibility update".
Saxton FailHale: It is broken beyond repair. Really. Tried to make it stop crashing, but the most it did was lower the chances. Don't even know why people insist in mixing this with classes
Mission Mode: Fun, doesn't crash much (When it does, it is after the "Boss Title Card" call, before the stage starts), but doesn't last much (YET)
Chaos Generator: My personal favorie. Fun, doesn't crash and got plenty of motivation to play over and over. But, sadly, isn't hosted much.
Unholy Classes: One thing: Never take it seriously. For fooling around, it is as good as Chaos Generator. For serious games however...
RNC: Kinda used to enjoy in its early days. Today... Not much.

This sums up my opinion on the subject.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 01:06:43 AM
Without class mode (classic, mmx, or others), it can be the SAME THING.

I don't care about "balanced" class with V6F...it's pretty good for a fanmode. It's more for the fun, not really serious like the normal mode.

Saxtonhale is broken, specially with some class like Quickman....but it's not a big problem...
Title: Re: Fudge.
Post by: Knux on June 17, 2013, 01:33:24 AM
Quote from: "Mendez"
I honestly want Doomseeker to come pre-packaged in every new copy of MM8BDM
If I remember correctly, it hasn't been done due to legal shit or something.

Also, there are some people (like Bikdark actually, I don't recall anyone else) that call someone a Mexican as a manner of saying they're... something derogatory. No, really, it's that retarded cliche about Mexican people. I hope you know what I mean, because I'm not willing to describe it here. Otherwise, look it up somewhere.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: TheMetalManu on June 17, 2013, 01:59:08 AM
After reading this whole topic, I decided to go and see if people were playing some good n' old deathmatch, and as I expected the Alternia server was plenty of people, and with some familiar faces around too. I played some matches and except the fact that I suck at MM8BDM and there was some guy that every time wins a match says "Must... kill...", it was a pretty cool time.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 02:04:52 AM
Quote from: "TheMetalManu"
After reading this whole topic, I decided to go and see if people were playing some good n' old deathmatch, and as I expected the Alternia server was plenty of people, and with some familiar faces around too. I played some matches and except the fact that I suck at MM8BDM and there was some guy that every time wins a match says "Must... kill...", it was a pretty cool time.

Indeed, i think, the best way, is to see the positive part. If not, we will do nothing (same thing for the others passions/contest like AMV contest, Cosplay, sport....) :)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Galactan on June 17, 2013, 02:35:29 AM
What I don't understand is the popularity of the BR91 CLASS SAXTON HALE server when the sprites+music+misc pk3 is almost impossible to find.  That and the fact that the survivors pretty much always win.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: tsukiyomaru0 on June 17, 2013, 02:59:50 AM
Quote from: "Galactan"
What I don't understand is the popularity of the BR91 CLASS SAXTON HALE server when the sprites+music+misc pk3 is almost impossible to find.  That and the fact that the survivors pretty much always win.
Because it's "Mod+Classes". Just look at it: Roboenza with Classes, Saxton with Classes, Chaos Generator with Classes, Strength in Numbers (Which is Mission Mode with MORE classes) and guess what? Classes with Classes!
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 17, 2013, 03:40:15 AM
I will just say that all the classes related stuff has left me with no option then to play some other games. I did get new people when I hosted just Saxton Hale/Hide and Seek with no maps, but as soon as I did the request to add more maps...then yeah, just the regulars. Because of SH's buggy nature, though, I have decided to stop hosting it for the time being, and decided to go vanilla on two of my favorite modes, TLMS and CTF. Vanilla Deathmatch has always been there...but I do not care for it that much. Heck, even some Roboenza sounds good, but people insist on CLASSES. This statement might be a stretch...but Classes may actually be killing the game a bit.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: *Alice on June 17, 2013, 03:50:31 AM
I, personally, stopped playing Roboenza because the balance got shifted - in my opinion too much - in favor of the survivors after v3a got released.
Classes have always killed the game. Or not. People have always argued about Classes and probably always will.
The sentence above contains sarcasm.
I find it quite sad that with mm8bdm v3a map packs have basically died or at least declined a lot in popularity in general. There are many good custom maps that aren't played anymore at all.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 04:23:01 AM
I dont know what is the problem if people want play class, it doesnt kill the game at all.
And i don't see you a lot on the server (maybe you are on the normal mode only).

A lot of people like the classe mode and play often this one. Idk why they can't play an other mode...always THE SAME can become really boring.

"Classe killed the game", no, it's absolutly the opposite, it's really egoist, you know.

There is not a lot of players in the normal mode BECAUSE you can play with the copy weapons TOO on the classe mode....with Megaman/Protoman/Bass/Copydoc....they are more original than the basic megaman....(and Bass is really fun with his Dash).

Classe mode is the best mode for a game who want to be the FPS of the classic serie, i played all the megaman games (except legends and ZX) and the class mode in a FPS is really a good thing.

You can play others games, we dont care. If you want play the "normal basic mode, you can. But we don't care for the mode WE LIKE.

I don't like roboenza (for me) or chaos generator, and normal mode is always the same thing without classes but i have NOTHING against roboenza and chaos generator, if the people want play it, its good for them...

And classes servers are often with a lot of people, the day but specially the night. So, whats the problem?

If you dont like the robotmasters, you can use the Copyweap, nobody will have against that, except the rageguys.
But please, don't say, the game is dead because class mode ect.....
The servers have always a lot of people, a lot of people have a lot of fun with this mode.

If you dont see a lot of people on the Vanilla server, it can be explainded easily, they are all on the Classe servers, because class is CLASS + NORMAL MODE. See?

I hope others modes like MMX class and others, its always good to play others things.

Push the people only on the mode YOU want is ridiculous. But we dont care. Or make a server for you...
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Galactan on June 17, 2013, 04:39:38 AM
Quote from: "Stonefunk"
I dont know what is the problem if people want play class, it doesnt kill the game at all.
And i don't see you a lot on the server (maybe you are on the normal mode only).

A lot of people like the classe mode and play often this one. Idk why they can't play an other mode...always THE SAME can become really boring.

"Classe killed the game", no, it's absolutly the opposite, it's really egoist, you know.

There is not a lot of players in the normal mode BECAUSE you can play with the copy weapons TOO on the classe mode....with Megaman/Protoman/Bass/Copydoc....they are more original than the basic megaman....(and Bass is really fun with his Dash).

Classe mode is the best mode for a game who want to be the FPS of the classic serie, i played all the megaman games (except legends and ZX) and the class mode in a FPS is really a good thing.

You can play others games, we dont care. If you want play the "normal basic mode, you can. But we don't care for the mode WE LIKE.

I don't like roboenza (for me) or chaos generator, and normal mode is always the same thing without classes but i have NOTHING against roboenza and chaos generator, if the people want play it, its good for them...

And classes servers are often with a lot of people, the day but specially the night. So, whats the problem?

If you dont like the robotmasters, you can use the Copyweap, nobody will have against that, except the rageguys.
But please, don't say, the game is dead because class mode ect.....
The servers have always a lot of people, a lot of people have a lot of fun with this mode.

If you dont see a lot of people on the Vanilla server, it can be explainded easily, they are all on the Classe servers, because class is CLASS + NORMAL MODE. See?

I hope others modes like MMX class and others, its always good to play others things.

Push the people only on the mode YOU want is ridiculous. But we dont care. Or make a server for you...

I'm getting a feeling that you're being really defensive here.

Nobody's on normal classes.  Nobody's on vanilla.  It's all saxton+classes, all the time.  And it's killing us.  Nobody wants to sit through a Hale trying to catch Gyro Man or Quick Man.  It's boring as all hell, and yet people are going to be forced to flock to it because it's the only thing people are doing anymore!

A new person gets on, sees this really populated server.  One of three things happens:
A. They search for all the mods required, but can't find one (sprites+music+misc), give up, and go away because vanilla hardly ever has players.
B. They find everything, get on, and are immediately greeted by three Gyro men laughing their asses of while the hale tries to catch them.  About three minutes of this is all it takes for someone new to get bored out of their skull and leave.
C. They actually enjoy the experience.

Seriously, Saxton+Classes has to be stopped somehow.  Boycotting it in favor of vanilla, praying that the random ax hits it, anything.

Quote from: "Stonefunk"
always THE SAME can become really boring.

I'd like to take this moment to point out that you're almost always on the BR91 server.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 04:49:03 AM
For now ONLY because there wasnt a TLMS or TDM classe.. It's the reason I asked a TLMS Class server, Crasger did it, and it's very good!
Anyways, I hope, we won't have only Vanilla servers but some others too.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ivory on June 17, 2013, 05:08:40 AM
How many times have I seen something along the lines of "we need more 24/7 vanilla servers" and like discussions going on. How every single time, it only lasts like a week tops. The solution is old, it obviously doesn't work / isn't working. If it worked, we wouldn't have to be making yet another topic to discuss it.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: -Daiki-TheOni on June 17, 2013, 10:10:35 AM
I have something to say here, what the servers really need is some short of a calendar so one server can be played with mods and the next day without them, and the next with mods, the next without, etc... If someone can host here, trust me, is the best way to have all players happy, for example.

Monday- Vanilla DM

Tuesday- Roboenza

Wednesday- Vanilla TLMS

Thursday- Saxton Hale

Friday- Vanilla CTF

Saturday-Classes mod

Sunday-vanilla LMS/TDM

--------

Monday- CSCC classes

Tuesday- vanilla duel

Wednesday- Chaos generator

Thursday- vanilla possesion

Friday- GvH NES

Saturday-vanilla terminator

Sunday- Team sneaky

--

And then, change mods and days for the next week, so, everyday people can play a diferent game mode and not the same all the month o 2 weeks. All the mods are awesome, no one breaks gameplay (well dont put saxtonroboenzaclasseschaos all together), what servers need is some sort of diferent sequence, and someone explaining the new players how to play (I,ve seen friendly veterans explaning new players how to play) but this needs a lot of dedication and not all the people have the power or knowledge to host.

Also, if the english used by strangers is bad, don,t blame them for that, even better if in a nort-american server are 2 players that speak other languages, they can use that language to talk betwen them. (sometimes, I,ve been online and readed "anime is for faggots" or "pft, mexicans" we need to stop them, to really play this like a global game)

Thats all
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Linnie on June 17, 2013, 03:24:39 PM
I would just like to voice an opinion as a new player (I've been playing for about six weeks) that I really, very much enjoy a game with classes over just Mega Man. I pretty much only play a game with classes, unless it doesn't make a difference (like that one time I found that Hide 'n' Seek server), because it has so much more variety than just Mega Man. I've heard people talking about Balrog (I don't know who that is, I've gotten the assumption they took over Hale mode from someone else) "broke" Hale mode (which I assume is why classes Hale is outdated and the newer Hale with MM8 maps and the extra Hales doesn't have classes), and, if my assumptions are correct, I would have to agree, Hale is rather boring without classes.

What I'd like to see with classes is a server that forces random. It would probably be a good compromise for people who dislike people only playing classes that they find overpowered. Unfortunately I have no experience or skills with modding, so unless such a thing can already be done, I coulnd't contribute to making it and my suggestion means nothing, and I apologize for making it.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 17, 2013, 03:51:54 PM
Whoa, nelly.

Quote from: "Zerokk"
Quote from: "Gumballtoid"
Let me just open up Doomseeker for a moment. Here we have the aforementioned Saxton Hale server, full as usual. Scroll down and we see two roleplayers, spectating of course, in the Grandvoid server. Below that is a server hosting wads that are probably buried within the depths of Cutstuff. Further below is a test server for a rarely-played mod. And then there's a vanilla server with a few unfamiliar faces.

Fuck. Better join the full server: Saxton Hale.

Shit, I died early in the round. Sure wish the match could proceed. Oh, but, what's this? It appears there are a few stalling players delaying the match. ...Hrm, really tired of waiting. Fuck this, I could be doing better things. Bye, server.

Scale that appropriately and you get the idea.

You summed up EEEVVEERRYYYTTHHIIINGG that happens when I, and pretty much everybody else plays this game.

I would love to see more Vanilla TDM. That is great. Also doesn't make new players feel bad just because they didn't win: they're more likely to win because it's a team game.

Preferably TDM with forced autoselect and no switching.
Emphasis added. This is why Saxton Hale is so popular; you can lose horribly and then lie to yourself about how much you matter when "The Survivors Have Triumphed!(tm)" appears. It's more popular than TDM because everyone loves instakilling dudes as OP characters.

Quote from: "Galactan"
Quote from: "Stonefunk"
Complaining about complaining about Classes

I'm getting a feeling that you're being really defensive here.

Nobody's on normal classes.  Nobody's on vanilla.  It's all saxton+classes, all the time.  And it's killing us.  Nobody wants to sit through a Hale trying to catch Gyro Man or Quick Man.  It's boring as all hell, and yet people are going to be forced to flock to it because it's the only thing people are doing anymore!

A new person gets on, sees this really populated server.  One of three things happens:
A. They search for all the mods required, but can't find one (sprites+music+misc), give up, and go away because vanilla hardly ever has players.
B. They find everything, get on, and are immediately greeted by three Gyro men laughing their asses of while the hale tries to catch them.  About three minutes of this is all it takes for someone new to get bored out of their skull and leave.
C. They actually enjoy the experience.

Seriously, Saxton+Classes has to be stopped somehow.  Boycotting it in favor of vanilla, praying that the random ax hits it, anything.

Quote from: "Stonefunk"
always THE SAME can become really boring.

I'd like to take this moment to point out that you're almost always on the BR91 server.
Yes, Classes Saxton is the cancer that is killing MM8BDM. It's not like anyone can do anything about it; the old versions will still be out there, and they'll still be hosted as long as there are people willing to host it.

Quote from: "Tengu and Tango"
BLUE
This is where I would put in a "thumbs up" emoticon if we had one.

Quote from: "Linnie"
I would just like to voice an opinion as a new player (I've been playing for about six weeks) that I really, very much enjoy a game with classes over just Mega Man. I pretty much only play a game with classes, unless it doesn't make a difference (like that one time I found that Hide 'n' Seek server), because it has so much more variety than just Mega Man. I've heard people talking about Balrog (I don't know who that is, I've gotten the assumption they took over Hale mode from someone else) "broke" Hale mode (which I assume is why classes Hale is outdated and the newer Hale with MM8 maps and the extra Hales doesn't have classes), and, if my assumptions are correct, I would have to agree, Hale is rather boring without classes.

What I'd like to see with classes is a server that forces random. It would probably be a good compromise for people who dislike people only playing classes that they find overpowered. Unfortunately I have no experience or skills with modding, so unless such a thing can already be done, I coulnd't contribute to making it and my suggestion means nothing, and I apologize for making it.
At last, a voice of reason. Welcome to CutStuff, I hope you enjoy your stay. (About "breaking" SH; I got tired of watching people abuse Classes with Saxton Hale, so I put a bit of code in to kill anyone who doesn't use Mega Man. It didn't exactly work, but I tried.)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Linnie on June 17, 2013, 05:08:35 PM
...Balrog, why would you do that?

I mean, clearly a lot of people disagree with your opinion of it, from all the bashing I hear, and from the fact that the classes Hale is the one everyone usually goes to. If there's so much opposition, why don't you remove such code, or place a patch that gives people to disable the code when making their own servers (if the latter is possible; as I've said, I know nothing about code and I'm very grateful for those that do know)? Then more people would use your updates and you wouldn't be thought of so negatively by a portion of the community.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 17, 2013, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: "Linnie"
...Balrog, why would you do that?
Because I was sick of people using Quick Man, Wood Man, and Gyro Man to break the game. Balance in Saxton Hale (what little there is) is based on the capabilities of Mega Man. Mega Man can jump 32 units high, has 100 health, and has speed 0.8. If anyone uses a class that deviates from that significantly they're going to get an easy win. Playing some of the more vanilla classes (Fire Man, Ice Man, Metal Man) is fine, but everyone was and is just abusing the others to stall. Also, it crashes a lot, as Tsuki has complained to no end about.

Also, I expected a patch enabling Classes support to be around by now. It's not like the code is inaccessible or obfuscated - it would take literally five minutes to make a patch to remove the classes restriction if anyone had the will and the knowledge, which, I might add, is quite minimal. The idea was that you would actually have to have the vaguest idea of what you were doing to host Classes with Saxton Hale, and thereby open the Pandora's box of crashing and stalling.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Linnie on June 17, 2013, 05:31:08 PM
Huh. And, nobody has done so? That seems odd to me. If I ever decide to try coding with this, I may try to learn how to create that patch. But, with this knowledge, I'm getting the implication that most of the people who bash you don't know coding themselves.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Knux on June 17, 2013, 05:32:14 PM
Actually, by letting players explore amply what can happen when Classes meet Saxton, either it gets more popular or everyone eventually gets bored of it like everything else. From Linnie's reasoning, I can see that more clearly now. People may even want to go back to vanilla afterwards. I understant that Saxton was never meant to be hosted with classes though, and that it's too much trouble to make a compatibility patch becaue Balrog wants the game to be played how it was meant to: No Classes. But when people begin doing things like joining the classes Saxton server and apparently liking it, no one should be to blame for non existant trouble. People are having fun experimenting, and that's all sane and good.

As for me, I dislike Saxton + Classes. Still, anyone can make a patch for Classes as much as anyone is now able to host thanks to BE servers. So don't feel like Balrog has to be nagged at over it. He isn't obligated to do so.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 17, 2013, 05:34:16 PM
Here, Linnie. Knock yourself out. (http://zdoom.org/wiki/)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Linnie on June 17, 2013, 05:44:45 PM
Thank you for that link.


I completely understand your reasoning and can agree with it to a small extent -- I just go into spectate when Gyro Man's stage comes up -- but I personally like the variety of it, even if it is sometimes unfair, such as Gyro Man's stage. When I play Hale, I actually like getting the stragglers that are good at evading. But, I agree with you that different opinions will be had, and, although I disagree, I respect your decision to remove classes (because, as you said, with coding knowledge anybody could remove it).

I would personally also like to see more game modes being played, because I haven't played all of them yet and can't form a proper opinion on which is my favorite.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Knux on June 17, 2013, 05:56:21 PM
You know Linnie, if you do get to making that patch one day, you might want to exclude some game breaking classes and/or remove abilities that break the Saxton game. For example, Gyro man being able to fly only once in an entire match. It's a lot of work, but if it gets done, it could be both balanced and fun.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Linnie on June 17, 2013, 06:06:54 PM
Well, I would rather nerf the abilities (if that is possible) than remove them. For example, not removing his flight, but possibly shortening the time by increasing the ammo usage so they could only fly for 1-2 seconds? Again, only if such is possible.

This is of course hypothetical, if I try coding; it could easily turn out to overwhelm me and cause me to give up.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
You know Linnie, if you do get to making that patch one day, you might want to exclude some game breaking classes and/or remove abilities that break the Saxton game. For example, Gyro man being able to fly only once in an entire match. It's a lot of work, but if it gets done, it could be both balanced and fun.

Indeed! I understand Balrog for that!

Class is made for TLMS and can be TDM (but less balanced, a lot of robotmasters will be not enought powerfull to kill, like Diveman or Ballade, not like Metalman or Slashman).
Im bored when we must wait the final Saxton hale against a Gyroman/Windman or others....it's really boring.

I understand better the point of Balrog....

Class + Roboenza is boring too. (I will never RE-play it because it's WEIRD lol)

To do some mix can be funny for a moment, but not too much.

I play Saxton/Class because there wasnt TLMS, again....i hope more people on TLMS or a TDM class server :)

Recently, i trolled Saxton Hale with JunkCube, it killed Uncle Scrooge directly, a good way to finish a game.

And there is a big problem, the crazy thing, when everybody take the same robotmaster, the worst= everybody BUBBLEMAN on DIVEMAN MAP against a GILGAMESH, it's terrible! :/

And yeah, too much class...can kill the general atmosphere, and the point of class. With saxton hale class......
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: CutmanMike on June 17, 2013, 06:37:47 PM
I thought this topic was originally about elitists insulting newer gamers, in which case my advise is to just ignore them in game and move on. There's nothing we can do here except maybe ask the members (if they're on this forum) to be nicer.

But about the whole saxton hale being played more than xyz OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN. It was the same thing with GVH and Skulltag. GVH was more popular than any other mod, people who didn't want that raged at me, on the forums or even in the GVH servers themselves. You can't make people play what you want, people will always play what they think is fun. Whether that is a specific mod or just playing with lots of players. Suck it up, start events for other players that are interested in what you want to play and especially don't whine about it (not saying anyone currently is). We can't make people play vanilla if they've had a taste for mods and want something new, vanilla is what it is: MM8BDM. Some people don't want to play it anymore.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 17, 2013, 06:47:36 PM
Quote from: "CutmanMike"
I thought this topic was originally about elitists insulting newer gamers, in which case my advise is to just ignore them in game and move on.

indeed, at the convention, i told to the guys who were interested with MM8BDM : "online, there can be no-tolerant guys against new players who start, but its the same thing EVERYWHERE, exemple, counter strike, Call of duty or others games or passions (Cosplay world is worse than FPS)..."
I told them, they must ignore the bad guys and must have fun, first.  :)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: King Dumb on June 17, 2013, 07:47:56 PM
"Perhaps it's time we all stopped trying to outsmart the truth, and let it have its day".

Quote from: "Ivory"
How many times have I seen something along the lines of "we need more 24/7 vanilla servers" and like discussions going on. How every single time, it only lasts like a week tops. The solution is old, it obviously doesn't work / isn't working. If it worked, we wouldn't have to be making yet another topic to discuss it.

Quote from: "CutmanMike"
But about the whole saxton hale being played more than xyz OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN. It was the same thing with GVH and Skulltag. GVH was more popular than any other mod, people who didn't want that raged at me, on the forums or even in the GVH servers themselves. You can't make people play what you want, people will always play what they think is fun. Whether that is a specific mod or just playing with lots of players. Suck it up, start events for other players that are interested in what you want to play and especially don't whine about it (not saying anyone currently is). We can't make people play vanilla if they've had a taste for mods and want something new, vanilla is what it is: MM8BDM. Some people don't want to play it anymore.

Credible sources. Experience. Generally smart people. Listen to these people, even if you won't listen to me. People who don't want to play something won't play it. Vanilla servers are up now, they have been up in the past, and they will be up. No one who prefers to play Saxton Hale, Classes, etc etc will join them.

I could go on a long dialogue about why so many players prefer Saxton and Classes over vanilla, from many different perspectives, but for now suffice it to say such modes fit these players' definition of "fun". For truly, why else do we play but for fun? Some may find competitive modes fun (such as myself), some may find these more casual modes fun. I won't go into which is a more "refined" opinion of "fun" at this time.

There are a couple of different avenues for solutions.

1) Influx of players. If more players join, perhaps more players will play vanilla modes/whatever you want to play. Or, perhaps all the new players will flock to the same modes, in which case we'd have to move on to some other solutions. But I don't even see a method by which we could get new players aside from luck anyway. And I mean a genuine increase in player base; the so-called "Homie Invasion" was destined to be temporary by nature.

2) Contribute to the solution, when you can (most of us can). Unlike most, I don't necessarily mind those who complain but don't contribute to solutions; sometimes you aren't capable of solving the problems you see. But if you are capable of solving them, or contributing to their solutions, then you should try and do so. The whole point of events is to organize people of similar interests to play their favorite mods when there a lot of people around. In other words, they solve everyone's issues! Use them!

3) Make new game modes that bring in everyone. Do your research and study people; people who play Saxton Hale and/or Classes enjoy a certain kind of gameplay, people who play Duel, DM, CTF, etc. enjoy this other element of gameplay. Combine these and bingo. Contrary to popular (well, popular in this community, anyway) belief, this is actually possible. Commercial FPSs do this all the time; that's usually the only way they are successful. This solution would probably be best, but *gasp* it requires devoting time to learning basic ACS and Decorate to make their modes. There are plenty of knowledgeable people in this community who will help you learn.

Obviously, many players don't find vanilla modes as enjoyable as Saxton Hale + Classes, etc. So ask yourselves, why do they play what they do, and why don't they play what they don't? Do they like seeing the "You Win!"? Do they hate losing all the time in vanilla modes like Deathmatch? Is it really the players? Maybe they just don't like dying? Maybe the variety offered by classes is important? Do they like the empowering feeling of being Saxton Hale? Are they even Saxton Hale that often? What do they think about the problem of dying and waiting for long rounds to end?

These questions are answerable. Hell, some of the answers even lie in this thread.

Perhaps the real secret is that people are just losing interest in the game. Luckily, avenues 1 and 3 are still totally possible if that's the case. The question to ask here is, are you losing interest in the game as it is now, or the game as it was once? In other words, would you be interested again if we rolled the clocks back two or three years?

--------------

No one is in complete innocence for "the way things are". But, do you feel guilty?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 17, 2013, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: "King Dumb"
Obviously, many players don't find vanilla modes as enjoyable as Saxton Hale + Classes, etc. So ask yourselves, why do they play what they do, and why don't they play what they don't? Do they like seeing the "You Win!"? Do they hate losing all the time in vanilla modes like Deathmatch? Is it really the players? Maybe they just don't like dying? Maybe the variety offered by classes is important? Do they like the empowering feeling of being Saxton Hale? Are they even Saxton Hale that often? What do they think about the problem of dying and waiting for long rounds to end?

These questions are answerable. Hell, some of the answers even lie in this thread.

Perhaps the real secret is that people are just losing interest in the game. Luckily, avenues 1 and 3 are still totally possible if that's the case. The question to ask here is, are you losing interest in the game as it is now, or the game as it was once? In other words, would you be interested again if we rolled the clocks back two or three years?

--------------

No one is in complete innocence for "the way things are". But, do you feel guilty?


I don't know about you, but I think that route 1 is the best option here. New people are always nice, when they're willing to learn and assimilate. I'm not anti-newbie; I'm anti-n00b. Show me that you're not an epic moron and you're fine in my book. I'm not even sure what route 2 is, and and route 3 just seems odd. Apparently, people who play Saxton Hale (and nothing else) like it because they can win even though they aren't good at the game, while vanilla players like playing vanilla modes because winning generally depends on skill in those modes. I'm not really sure how you're supposed to reconcile those.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 17, 2013, 08:11:32 PM
I personally liked seeing new players whenever they came on my server. Hide and Seek seemed to attract new players, and since that one is my mod, I think the "newness" of the mode will spark activity just a bit once I get v1c going (a few issues in there are ones that are tricky to resolve, hence why I am taking my time on it). I kind of wonder if we should try to revive old mods, or else try to do some new modes like I had been attempting with my racing mod and Hide and Seek.

I know for one thing that adding map packs, as more enjoyable overall as they are, tends to discourage new players from joining. Having to download like 8 new things just to try out a new mode is a bit overkill. That may explain why BR91's server is more popular than the generically named "Saxton Classes" server that has everything BR91's server has, but has a few map packs as well. If new players want to explore the new maps, they can download them themselves. Whether or not they did the single player campaign, I think new players may want to get a bit more used to the official maps before exploring other maps. I may be wrong, of course, but I feel that may be the case.

I think I'll end this with a question as well. All of us started new here. What was/were the reason(s) we stayed and continued playing? For me, it was the extra mods, though I still love a good old fashioned LMS or CTF game.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: King Dumb on June 17, 2013, 08:14:30 PM
Quote
2) Contribute to the solution, when you can (most of us can). Unlike most, I don't necessarily mind those who complain but don't contribute to solutions; sometimes you aren't capable of solving the problems you see. But if you are capable of solving them, or contributing to their solutions, then you should try and do so. The whole point of events is to organize people of similar interests to play their favorite mods when there a lot of people around. In other words, they solve everyone's issues! Use them!

Heh, I removed a part of this, and it must have contained the meat.

Avenue 2 is playing the game. Too many people complain about not having people to play with in their favorite modes. When events for such modes are organized, all too often they die. If you enjoy the game, play it. Only good will come of it.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: ZeStopper on June 17, 2013, 08:58:27 PM
I remember when I started everyone was playing classes and Saxton. I sucked. It took me a lot of time to improve to get used to all of the classes. The thing is that it was hard and frustrating, and I don't want any of our new players to feel like they're weak or something just because of one class. So, maybe we can have some kind of tutoring server, to teach them how to play. Perhaps even a server for all the new players to introduce themselves, for us to teach them.  That way there'll always be someone with at least one kill.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Watzup7856 on June 17, 2013, 09:13:09 PM
I love to see new players, and im always willing to help them out with something. But when a new player says to me "fuck you" after i win a DM match, then yes it annoys the hell out of me. its even worse when they try to vote kick you for winning too much. some new players can be like that, but not all.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: ZeStopper on June 17, 2013, 09:17:39 PM
Quote from: "Watzup7856"
I love to see new players, and im always willing to help them out with something. But when a new player says to me "fuck you" after i win a DM match, then yes it annoys the hell out of me. its even worse when they try to vote kick you for winning too much. some new players can be like that, but not all.
I agree with you, I was going to get kicked for standing in one place as a Hale, that too in Spring Man's stage (which I feel is not appropriate). The whole thing got boring anyway.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: TailsMK4 on June 17, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
A tutoring server sounds interesting, but I'm trying to figure out how one could be done. I feel that is something I can help do as long as we have a somewhat solid plan in place.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Accel on June 17, 2013, 11:04:28 PM
What if someone made a tutorial map, complete with test dummies, a training ground, and a system that uses the text to teach players how to play?

Granted... that's pretty much Light's Lab's purpose, but I mean an area just fully dedicated to training new players, that other, older players can join and help out with.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Knux on June 17, 2013, 11:26:32 PM
Shit, that's easy to do. Place props, weapons, and other stuff in cubicles that pop up a HUD message when you walk up to them, and a few areas to test the weapons in. I'm all for making such a map. Of course, there's probably other stuff to take accounts for, but I have a feeling I could pull it off.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: EazyDI on June 18, 2013, 01:54:21 AM
Quote from: "Balrog"
I posted this when homies started rolling in, but it's still relevant here.

Quote
This could be a bad thing.


Also, Stonefunk, Use proper English when posting.

Balrog, you're a dickhead and wrong for that. English isn't his main language, and there is no rule on CS  saying you have to speak "proper English" when posting.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Knux on June 18, 2013, 02:13:39 AM
It was already stated in a much nicer manner. You didn't even have to bother.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 18, 2013, 03:17:36 PM
Anyways, King Dumb, well said! ..... You said all...
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 19, 2013, 11:42:05 PM
Some new findings:
(click to show/hide)
Quote
mikey hauser: bad game
I've been compiling demos and whatnot, and expect to have a series of videos soon.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: King Dumb on June 20, 2013, 03:55:35 AM
And what exactly are you trying to prove with these demos and logs? That a lot of new players hold little to no value currently to our community.

Those of us who play the frequently know this very well. Perhaps we should figure out where these new players are coming from; maybe we'll get lucky and they all come from the same place. They're probably from a select few origins. That'd be worth figuring out, both for PR (that's Public Relations) research purposes and just figuring it out. Posterity and all that. We don't need to spend time proving there a few bad apples out there. I myself encountered a particularly distasteful new individual two days ago at Classes TLMS.

One huge thing we can do to improve the quality of people coming in is improve the MM8BDM Wiki. Little progress has been made since the project was stickied to the MM8BDM Discussion forums. It's common practice nowadays to look to wikis for information about a new interest. If you ask me, ours makes us look shallow, lacking content and character. It's also not as useful as it could be. We can start by copying all of the content from some of our forums' more useful tutorials into the wiki. We can continue by marking our articles more comprehensive and less personalized, because that turns people off. We can improve from there by adding articles on mods, and... more tutorials! People should be able to scour the wiki and come to the forums with a good working knowledge of everything.

--------------------

As an aside. I think too many people are looking for that magic solution. Some people say we need more vanilla, some say we need PR, some say we need more activity, some say we need more mods, some say we need more this or that... Everyone has seemed reluctant to agree that we need *all* of that and more.

But it's not just that we need all of that. We need all of that in quality. But perhaps that is a discussion for a different thread.

I also disagree with those stating that the community is just in a phase and that things will turn around. I agree we are in a phase, as things have been this way before, but not without action. What do these people think will magically happen? The only thing that will happen without us doing anything is a slow aging-out and a sudden death.

--------------------

EDIT: To get this back on topic, because that truly was meant to be an aside...

I think a dedicated server is a good idea, and could work. I think Light's Lab would be a great way to make that happen... perhaps it could simply be expanded and made online-friendly?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: *Alice on June 20, 2013, 09:12:13 AM
Well, from what I have seen most of the new players (from the nameless servers / dev's server) (with maybe one or two exceptions) are acting quite civilized, actually. I mean, of course there are people swearing and complaining unnecessarily, but that should be kind of expected.

I had quite a few nice matches with them in the last few days and I am sure that Balrog's videos will prove some of the things said in this thread wrong.

The really funny thing, though, is that most people are still playing Saxton Hale or not playing the game, even though we almost always have at least one vanilla server with players in them now.

tl,dr: New players are not bad nor good because many people are not interested in them after all.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 20, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
Quote from: "King Dumb"
And what exactly are you trying to prove with these demos and logs? That a lot of new players hold little to no value currently to our community.

Those of us who play the frequently know this very well. Perhaps we should figure out where these new players are coming from; maybe we'll get lucky and they all come from the same place. They're probably from a select few origins. That'd be worth figuring out, both for PR (that's Public Relations) research purposes and just figuring it out. Posterity and all that. We don't need to spend time proving there a few bad apples out there. I myself encountered a particularly distasteful new individual two days ago at Classes TLMS.
Wait, are you agreeing with me here? It's kinda hard to tell from your wording.

I've always argued based on prior experience that the majority of the new players are going to be children who will herpderp around and annoy people. I suspect that the primary source of referrals is YouTube videos, and no amount of PR is going to steer that failboat of a user base around. (Yes, I'm aware that there are tons of high-quality videos posted on YouTube every day. It's the people who frequent the website and don't post much of anything who are terrible.) This source of new players will be ever-present; currently it seems to be our only source of new players. So PR is a good idea here; we need to start forum threads in sane communities to attract people who aren't epic morons to this community and show them how to work Doomseeker and whatnot.

Quote from: "King Dumb"
One huge thing we can do to improve the quality of people coming in is improve the MM8BDM Wiki. Little progress has been made since the project was stickied to the MM8BDM Discussion forums. It's common practice nowadays to look to wikis for information about a new interest. If you ask me, ours makes us look shallow, lacking content and character. It's also not as useful as it could be. We can start by copying all of the content from some of our forums' more useful tutorials into the wiki. We can continue by marking our articles more comprehensive and less personalized, because that turns people off. We can improve from there by adding articles on mods, and... more tutorials! People should be able to scour the wiki and come to the forums with a good working knowledge of everything.
I wouldn't say to directly copy tutorials, but adapting their content is a good idea. Also, the Wiki makes us look shallow because aside from "the guys", the forum regulars who stick around and make the mods, this community is shallow. Again, "90 percent 8-year-olds, 8 percent lurkers, 1.9 percent oldbies, and 0.1 percent people actually able to contribute", though in the case of this community the oldbie and contributor groups are pretty much one and the same.

Quote from: "King Dumb"
As an aside. I think too many people are looking for that magic solution. Some people say we need more vanilla, some say we need PR, some say we need more activity, some say we need more mods, some say we need more this or that... Everyone has seemed reluctant to agree that we need *all* of that and more.

But it's not just that we need all of that. We need all of that in quality. But perhaps that is a discussion for a different thread.
People are lazy and want a magic bullet to solve their problems. This transcends communities and the Internet.

Quote from: "King Dumb"
I think a dedicated server is a good idea, and could work. I think Light's Lab would be a great way to make that happen... perhaps it could simply be expanded and made online-friendly?
From what I've seen, Light's Lab relies too heavily on offline-only kludges to bother editing. An all-original map would be better.

Quote from: "*Alice"
Well, from what I have seen most of the new players (from the nameless servers / dev's server) (with maybe one or two exceptions) are acting quite civilized, actually. I mean, of course there are people swearing and complaining unnecessarily, but that should be kind of expected.

I had quite a few nice matches with them in the last few days and I am sure that Balrog's videos will prove some of the things said in this thread wrong.

The really funny thing, though, is that most people are still playing Saxton Hale or not playing the game, even though we almost always have at least one vanilla server with players in them now.

tl,dr: New players are not bad nor good because many people are not interested in them after all.
Let me make this clear: I can hold my own against these people.
I am, without a doubt, the least skilled forum regular. Every time I've tried dueling someone with any skill whatsoever, I almost always lose with a 5-2 score or worse. And I can fight and win against these guys, which hasn't happened to me since the homie invasion. That should tell you how incompetent they are. As for them "acting quite civilized", that may be because they either don't know that T is for talk or are too busy playing to talk much.

I therefore have come to the conclusion that oldbies are avoiding vanilla at least partly because the inhabitants thereof are simply not a challenge to them. Various other reasons have been suggested here and may be a factor, of course.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: King Dumb on June 20, 2013, 07:29:39 PM
I'm confused as to what your point is to be, Balrog. Are you saying Cutstuff is doomed to the same fate as SRB2, or are you saying we've already suffered said fate and now it's time to bounce back? You seem to be agreeing with a number of proposed solutions, but then you keep harping on some point (which, again, has alluded me) about the current player demographic. I'm not seeing a whole lot of potential for a productive point coming out of that.

I'm refraining from responding to your post section by section because that seems to turn off people from reading for comprehension. I will, however, respond directly to one section.

Quote
People are lazy and want a magic bullet to solve their problems. This transcends communities and the Internet.
Yes. I know. Generalizing the problem does not make it any more excusable or any less reparable.

--------------------

Unfortunately, some people - specifically those who have lost the most interest and who ascribe to the strictest doctrines of a magical community cycle - will have already dismissed this topic as just another hopeless cause devolved into argument.

--------------------

I feel we've almost exhausted discussion of the original topic - how to deal with new players. Provide them readily available resources for learning (the Wiki, forums, new player server), a place to log some online gameplay without feeling the pressure of those of more experience (new player server), and provide them with an active, valuable community into which they can integrate themselves after learning the ropes.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 20, 2013, 07:45:02 PM
I'm saying that CutStuff is traveling down the same path that SRB2 travels down, nearly all new players discovering this game are epic morons who fail Internet 101, and we need to take active steps to correct this by evangelizing to communities that don't suck ass.

I think that this topic is due for a lock. Everything that can be said seems to have been said, and further discussion is likely to result in flaming and circular arguments. (If anyone's interested in those videos I mentioned, check [linked removed] as they appear.) Would a mod be so kind as to oblige?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: *Alice on June 20, 2013, 08:07:28 PM
Honestly, this is just a lot of dramaticism about nothing.

And I have not noticed this topic really going into flamewar territory.

The thing is that there is a widespread bias against new players in general here, which is just really annoying.

We actually do *not need* new players. And it looks like many people do not even *want* new players.
I, personally, do not really care much about new players. While I do enjoy just helping them a little and explaining them things (and of course beating them in-game because of the skill level difference) they are not crucial to the enjoyment of the game.

If someone does not write while playing, does that make them stupid? No. I, for example, never wrote anything in Xonotic or Team Fortress 2 when I used to play those games, yet I still enjoyed them and was not completely useless as a player.

Basically, all this over-dramatizing is just really pointless. Cutstuff is not *dying*. We do not have a mass exodus of users here, do we? It might be that many people are getting bored with the game for various reasons, but that is something completely normal. Just wait for the next big mod / event to appear / re-appear and we will have full servers all the time.

I see no reason to lock this.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: King Dumb on June 20, 2013, 08:18:41 PM
This will probably be my last post in this topic.

I agree with Alice in that I don't see any flaming or potential for unfocused argument, so far. I also agree that there is a widespread (not sure how widespread, but widespread) distaste for the idea of new players.

I disagree with the notion that there is over-dramatization going on here. There is no dramatization going on at all. Dramatization would involve much more emotion and much less reason. I try not to associate with 'drama'; there is a line between drama and important issues. This is the latter.

And finally, I will end with a definitive "no"; Cutstuff is not dying. An actual process of dying would be more quick.

But it is aging, and the condemnation of the aged is complacence.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Galactan on June 20, 2013, 08:23:40 PM
Quote from: "*Alice"
Honestly, this is just a lot of dramaticism about nothing.

This is a hell of a lot more than nothing.  Like Balrog said, if active steps aren't taken, servers will likely be flooded with ragers, spammers, and other such things.  Maybe not soon, but it's in the future somewhere.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ivory on June 20, 2013, 08:33:51 PM
Quote from: "Galactan"
This is a hell of a lot more than nothing.  Like Balrog said, if active steps aren't taken, servers will likely be flooded with ragers, spammers, and other such things.  Maybe not soon, but it's in the future somewhere.
I'm pretty sure if that were to happen, it would have happened by now. The state of the game and this community has been stagnant for a long time afterall. Official expansions and updates don't draw in crowds for very long. For as big of an overhaul update that V3 was, how long did the magic and excitement last? A few weeks tops.

As for the fear of the community dying, fear not, it can never die. There are too many vital people here who keep things going and so long as those people remain here and gradually work on MM8BDM related content, the community and game will stay afloat. However, this is hardly an ideal state to be in.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Orange juice :l on June 20, 2013, 08:36:04 PM
Quote from: "*Alice"
We actually do *not need* new players. And it looks like many people do not even *want* new players.

Now, this is the problem. It's a problem whether or not you're even right. Assuming you are, these "many people" are signing Cutstuff's DNR as we speak. They turn away new players through complacency or even hostility, instead choosing the xenophobic route of only interacting with themselves. I'd go into more detail, but that's a discussion for another thread. Anyways; if you aren't right, then your conviction sends a bad message to people who want to play the game, driving them away anyways. It's their right to play this game as much as yours- it's not our place to decide we "don't need more people."
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 20, 2013, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: "Galactan"
Like Balrog said, if active steps aren't taken, servers will likely be flooded with ragers, spammers, and other such things.  Maybe not soon, but it's in the future somewhere.
What? I didn't say that. The horrible worst-case scenario I've been implying is one where the community that we have is the only one we get, and will slowly wither and die due to a lack of new members. The "ragers, spammers, and other such things", as you call the steady trickle of younger users, are a known quantity, barring extraordinary events such as the "homie invasion". They find the game, dick around with it, maybe make some grandiose posts on the forum that never get followed up, and lose interest within about a year. There's no real threat of a sudden and spontaneous surge of idiocy. The threat is a slow decline in activity until the current idiocy is all the activity that's left.

Quote from: "Orange juice :l"
Quote from: "*Alice"
We actually do *not need* new players. And it looks like many people do not even *want* new players.
Now, this is the problem. It's a problem whether or not you're even right. Assuming you are, these "many people" are signing Cutstuff's DNR as we speak. They turn away new players through complacency or even hostility, instead choosing the xenophobic route of only interacting with themselves. I'd go into more detail, but that's a discussion for another thread. Anyways; if you aren't right, then your conviction sends a bad message to people who want to play the game, driving them away anyways. It's their right to play this game as much as yours- it's not our place to decide we "don't need more people."
Yup. However, the players being "driven away" currently aren't really permanent residents anyway. Again, we need new players, they just need to be players who can string coherent thoughts together and contribute to a meaningful community. From my experience, the current crop doesn't cut it.

Quote from: "Ivory"
I'm pretty sure if that were to happen, it would have happened by now. The state of the game and this community has been stagnant for a long time afterall. Official expansions and updates don't draw in crowds for very long. For as big of an overhaul update that V3 was, how long did the magic and excitement last? A few weeks tops.

As for the fear of the community dying, fear not, it can never die. There are too many vital people here who keep things going and so long as those people remain here and gradually work on MM8BDM related content, the community and game will stay afloat. However, this is hardly an ideal state to be in.
This is what is killing SRB2. It was (and is) propped up by a handful of people who keep the community going through content and discussion. When they lose interest, and as much as I hate to say it, that is going to happen eventually, the rot sets in immediately. While this commmunity may not die, it could end up looking like these guys. (http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/6/64/Plague_Zombies.jpg)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Rozark on June 20, 2013, 09:03:29 PM
We have this conversation every few months, I actually believe somewhere in the forums there's a topic titled "Cutstuff is dying" from 2011. Seriously, this isn't an issue. We're doing fine and Balrog stop spreading widespread panic and go do stuff for Saxton Hale.

EDIT: Wrong topic title, but at least I got the year right.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3698 (http://www.cutstuff.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3698)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Mendez on June 21, 2013, 01:52:08 AM
Holy crap, thanks for reminding me about that! I'll just repost what I said two years ago:
It's not ENTIRELY dead yet. There's still about 75-100 players total that still care about this game. But yeah, it seems like there are a lot less players than usual. You know what we need? A gimmicky marketing campaign to get the word out about this relatively unique FPS. I think we should make someone popular post more about this game. Hmmmmmm....
I remember Vardoc bringing me in, and I remember the roboenza videos that brought more people in. So how about we make someone incredibly popular on the internet mention this game? But who.....
Better yet, how about we all chip in and see if we can try and spread the word out about the game by making videos and crazy moments in this game, similar to what's been done before. We can get that going, and in the meantime we can try and create a custom server broswer for MM8BDM servers inside the MM8BDM launcher itself so that people aren't required to get doomseeker. Or maybe, we can go to Megaman forums and advertise this game a bit so that people get interested. Worse case scenario is that one of us starts a thread on /v/ and it results in a giant shitstorm.
Don't worry TERRORSphere, I won't let this game die on me. At least, not until AMP2 comes out. After that, to hell with you guys, I'm out of here.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ceridran on June 21, 2013, 01:58:34 AM
Quote from: "Mendez"
So how about we make someone incredibly popular on the internet mention this game? But who.....

Then it happened somewhere in 2012 or 2013, and.. uh..
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 21, 2013, 04:25:27 AM
Quote from: "Mendez"
Holy crap, thanks for reminding me about that! I'll just repost what I said two years ago:
It's not ENTIRELY dead yet. There's still about 75-100 players total that still care about this game. But yeah, it seems like there are a lot less players than usual. You know what we need? A gimmicky marketing campaign to get the word out about this relatively unique FPS. I think we should make someone popular post more about this game. Hmmmmmm....
I remember Vardoc bringing me in, and I remember the roboenza videos that brought more people in. So how about we make someone incredibly popular on the internet mention this game? But who.....
Better yet, how about we all chip in and see if we can try and spread the word out about the game by making videos and crazy moments in this game, similar to what's been done before. We can get that going, and in the meantime we can try and create a custom server broswer for MM8BDM servers inside the MM8BDM launcher itself so that people aren't required to get doomseeker. Or maybe, we can go to Megaman forums and advertise this game a bit so that people get interested. Worse case scenario is that one of us starts a thread on /v/ and it results in a giant shitstorm.
Don't worry TERRORSphere, I won't let this game die on me. At least, not until AMP2 comes out. After that, to hell with you guys, I'm out of here.

+1 (:

We are a lot of people when it's the night/end of afternoon, not so much but a lot sometimes.
And there is the exams, the school....maybe, we will be more when it will be the holidays.

Anyways, one thing You can know, guys: Capcom let us if we want show megaman games at any conventions.
I asked to Capcom Europe/FR if there can be a problem with copyright when i show a megaman official game or fangame at a convention, they told me, there is no problem!
I can show Megaman Power Fighter if i want.

So, if there is the conventions, you can use some laptops/computers or others to use MM8BDM and show how awesome is this game!

I will do 2 conventions and need to confirm on other for july, september and october. And later certainly ;)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Magnet Dood on June 21, 2013, 04:36:34 AM
Wasn't that what the Rolling Cutters for Youtube was for? I mean, Smash is kind of relatively famous in a remote way...
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Balrog on June 21, 2013, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
Quote from: "Mendez"
So how about we make someone incredibly popular on the internet mention this game? But who.....

Then it happened somewhere in 2012 or 2013, and.. uh..
"It was a clusterfuck" is the phrase you're looking for. Imagine what would happen if, say, PewDiePie found this game. Mass exposure like that is just going to result in a brief spike in stupidity levels and maybe 10 new regulars.

Quote from: "Stonefunk"
asdfghjkl;'
Not everyone lives in France.

Quote from: "Magnet Dood"
Wasn't that what the Rolling Cutters for Youtube was for? I mean, Smash is kind of relatively famous in a remote way...
Wait, that's still a thing?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Colonel ServBot on June 21, 2013, 04:47:13 PM
Quote from: "Mendez"
So how about we make someone incredibly popular on the internet mention this game? But who.....

Wait a sec, Didn't PewdiePie get Cutstuff a little bit more famous by playing Ghouls Forest? In one of his videos, he said he didn't play much of the Megaman games. But I think, if the entire community requests that he should play MegaMan 8bit DeathMatch, he might!
And maybe other Youtubers might wanna try it.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Tengu on June 21, 2013, 04:53:05 PM
Okay, okay. If a bunch of Pewdiepie fanboys start flooding MM8BDM I don't know how I would even react to that. Sure, I enjoy the embrace of new players. But I think that would turn into another homie incident.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Jman on June 24, 2013, 05:14:50 PM
Don't forget though, some people who joined during the homie fiasco did end up assimilating into the community. I can't name anybody, but they ended up dropping their homie identity, and just acting like normal bypassers.

If pewdiepie people, for example, were to flood the servers en masse, I would simply take a break from mm8bdm until it subsides, and the people that want to stay end up staying, and the masses who end up leaving leave.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Tengu on June 25, 2013, 04:08:08 AM
That would probably ride on if Pewdiepie did a non-shitty tutorial on using the game unlike Slyfox.

*COUGH*
(click to show/hide)
*COUGH*
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Shyster on June 25, 2013, 04:08:42 AM
Believe me, let's players and internet celebrities work the best. I first got here around V1 from videos by PinkKittyRose, a let's player that you might remember. At some point, I got tired of roboenza or something and waited a year or so before returning under this name.

With video of the game, people will know exactly what it is and if they might enjoy playing it. This probably increases the amount of "good" newbies vs. "bad" newbies that would only have a forum post to go off of. Who posts that video isn't important, every fanbase has good and bad parts, even Pewdiepie's (maybe).

Also:
Quote from: "King Dumb"
One huge thing we can do to improve the quality of people coming in is improve the MM8BDM Wiki. Little progress has been made since the project was stickied to the MM8BDM Discussion forums. It's common practice nowadays to look to wikis for information about a new interest. If you ask me, ours makes us look shallow, lacking content and character. It's also not as useful as it could be. We can start by copying all of the content from some of our forums' more useful tutorials into the wiki. We can continue by marking our articles more comprehensive and less personalized, because that turns people off. We can improve from there by adding articles on mods, and... more tutorials! People should be able to scour the wiki and come to the forums with a good working knowledge of everything.

I'm trying, I'm trying. Kind of hard to run a one-man show here. I'm not even halfway done with the vanilla maps.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: -Daiki-TheOni on June 25, 2013, 02:02:18 PM
This is a bit off-topic but... better places to announce the next expansions like nintendo oficial websites or etc....
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Fyone on June 26, 2013, 05:15:42 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has said this but, I think a lot of the old community members (I'm not going to name names) are just tired of this game but still find interest in expanding it and only play when they see people that they have high regard for (high-ego forum stalkers). Or old community members are making excuses to not play because of full saxton hale servers which is majorly flawed. Seeing how many people are against Saxton Hale that should be enough to start a vanilla server and I actually often see vanilla servers with "noobs" which makes me wonder if people just don't like facing new players (I personally don't because of the skill difference) but still, saying you don't play because of Saxton-Classes fetishes or Anything-Classes kind of makes no sense especially since a lot of the people on the forums are against Saxton (or at least that's what I percieve) which makes me go back to the point of everyone just being bored of the game in general.

IF a lot of people like to play mm8bdm vanilla and don't play because servers are empty for vanilla and server-camping serves no good then perhaps more vanilla events need to be held to get more people playing, once more events are hosted perhaps more people will fill up vanilla servers on a regular-basis (however IF a lot of people do not find interest in mm8bdm anymore and are just making excuses to not play the vanilla event could just outright fail like others have in the past).

Though I don't think mm8bdm is dying (just look at all the full servers :P), I think just the community is dying to some extent towards playing the game as frequently since half the people that play Saxton-Classes haven't even joined the forums.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 26, 2013, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: "Fyone"
I'm not sure if anyone has said this but, I think a lot of the old community members (I'm not going to name names) are just tired of this game but still find interest in expanding it and only play when they see people that they have high regard for (high-ego forum stalkers). Or old community members are making excuses to not play because of full saxton hale servers which is majorly flawed. Seeing how many people are against Saxton Hale that should be enough to start a vanilla server and I actually often see vanilla servers with "noobs" which makes me wonder if people just don't like facing new players (I personally don't because of the skill difference) but still, saying you don't play because of Saxton-Classes fetishes or Anything-Classes kind of makes no sense especially since a lot of the people on the forums are against Saxton (or at least that's what I percieve) which makes me go back to the point of everyone just being bored of the game in general.

IF a lot of people like to play mm8bdm vanilla and don't play because servers are empty for vanilla and server-camping serves no good then perhaps more vanilla events need to be held to get more people playing, once more events are hosted perhaps more people will fill up vanilla servers on a regular-basis (however IF a lot of people do not find interest in mm8bdm anymore and are just making excuses to not play the vanilla event could just outright fail like others have in the past).

Though I don't think mm8bdm is dying (just look at all the full servers :P), I think just the community is dying to some extent towards playing the game as frequently since half the people that play Saxton-Classes haven't even joined the forums.

+10000000000000 !!!

Specially for the old mad people who need popularity and who are closed too but do a show off with new players and who are mad with them so badly :/

And yeah, a lot of servers are full again, sometimes! :D

EDIT:

But remember, how we started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4JTSnpl ... 20D9BDC7A1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4JTSnplStM&list=PL9FDD2620D9BDC7A1)  
We didnt know anybody, we were so alone or individual for a lot....We tried to know each other, noob or strong anyways.

And we became... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_fTMJo ... P30fPwpbJX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_fTMJov7o&list=PLU7q7FIFpNUvaShzCtSqqjMP30fPwpbJX)
(At 11:10 )
A family, because we need each others to play this game....newbie or not.
Only bad guys can kill the atmosphere with hypocrit or mad thing.

Don't forget guys, it's a fangame, if we want a long life to mm8bdm, like a family, we need to be nice and must have a solidarity.

Im sad because no more mmgames (specially HD), with capcom...MM8BDM is really the only game I play, im bored with EXE games..

A noob can be noob, except if he is mad, we must show We are opened and no elitist or wtf we are.

Anyways, long life to MM8BDM (i hope) ;)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Max on June 26, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
nsfw

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ceridran on June 26, 2013, 05:40:09 PM
.. Look, they could just create their own private server to do this--
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Orange juice :l on June 26, 2013, 05:42:35 PM
Or use Skype.
Or IRC.
Or Steam.
Or Gmail.
Or the Phone.
Or anything else.
When you think of an internet chat application, is the first thing in your mind really Zandronum?
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Davregis on June 26, 2013, 07:29:54 PM
Quote from: "Zerokk"
.. Look, they could just create their own private server to do this--

But they don't, and this has been going on forever :L
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 26, 2013, 08:31:49 PM
Quote from: "Yellow Devil"
nsfw

(click to show/hide)

LMAO! XDDD
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ivory on June 26, 2013, 10:20:22 PM
Stonefunk, you know better than to do that.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 26, 2013, 10:47:53 PM
Just to know, homies didnt like this game? No one? Maybe some guys play this game alone, in a group of noobs/newbies, you can have some people who can like really this game....
If people say "oh, a lot of homies are noobs = they are all noobs", not sure....some people can become cool....
it's always a good thing, if some people are boring in this game (because they dont know really how to play it), they will stop to play, it's simple.
if people try to be a mad professor with them (homies or others), it can break the potential to have new people....
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Knux on June 26, 2013, 11:25:58 PM
Quote
Don't forget guys, it's a fangame, if we want a long life to mm8bdm, like a family, we need to be nice and must have a solidarity.
> Nice
> Solidarity

The fact that you entered a server just to call me obscenities destroys this. Too bad I don't know how to log messages.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Zard1084 on June 26, 2013, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: "Yellow Devil"
nsfw

(click to show/hide)
That makes me facepalm so hard its not even funny.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 26, 2013, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: "Knux"
Quote
Don't forget guys, it's a fangame, if we want a long life to mm8bdm, like a family, we need to be nice and must have a solidarity.
> Nice
> Solidarity

The fact that you entered a server just to call me obscenities destroys this. Too bad I don't know how to log messages.


Can i ask, why was i like that?

I hate people who are behind and do not try to discuss my topic if you do not like, at least say why we are here to discuss.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: SmashTheEchidna on June 27, 2013, 12:02:04 AM
that is not the same thing. And you just linked yourself to your own post.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: GameAndWatcher on June 27, 2013, 12:06:39 AM
Ironic, StoneFunk talks about people not talking about the subject, and yet he double posts.

Back on topic, the homies went because their leader, Slyfox, left. They only played the game because of Slyfox.
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Emmanuelf06 on June 27, 2013, 12:09:16 AM
Quote from: "Game&Watcher"
Ironic, StoneFunk talks about people not talking about the subject, and yet he double posts.

Back on topic, the homies went because their leader, Slyfox, left. They only played the game because of Slyfox.

I see.

I double posts because it was an error, i wanted send a PM to Ivory....
Title: Re: New Gamers, how must we do with them?
Post by: Ivory on June 27, 2013, 07:34:49 AM
Locked as requested by Stonefunk.