and really... easy mode? what the hell is easy mode?
Although I thought Wily Stage 1 wasn't too bad in the NES version of the game, in Wily Wars, it's a whole different story.
You know that room that requires Magnet Beam? And how you'd just pop back to the 2 large Weapon Energy Capsules in the Footholder room repeatedly if you ran out of Weapon Energy? Well, in Wily Wars, they "fixed" the "bug" where items re-generated when the screen they're on is left, which means YOU CAN'T MISS WITH THAT MAGNET BEAM, BUDDY, OR YOU'LL HAVE TO SUICIDE AND GET A GAME OVER TO TRY AGAIN!
My main issue with Wily stage 1 was the aforementioned forced magnet beam room. The yellow devil took me a long time to beat initially, since I was still learning his pattern. Once I got that down, he wasn't too hard.
The Foot Holders are something of a legitimate complaint, I've been playing this game for Christ-knows how long and there really doesn't seem to be anything close to a pattern in their movement. But much like in Ice Man's stage, you can still Magnet Beam across this section with relative ease (short platforms, create a new one while running across current, jump up to new one, repeat) so it's a no-brainer.
Yes, which is why you constantly create a new platform while running on the existing one, so you can jump on it when they fire. The only thing you have to worry about is creating too many platforms and jumping up into the spiked ceiling, but that shouldn't even be possible unless you panic and jump every time a Foot Holder changes direction.
Example:
Look at how 'A Raving Loon' (top left screen) clears the obstacle. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkJn2kOlwlY&t=42m25s)
Oh right, of course. 'Lucky'. Maybe you're actually just bad at the game then, because I can get across that gap using the above method pretty much any time I play.
and yes there IS an element of luck because the damn things do move randomly.But they're so slow with moving that it really doesn't affect any Magnet Beam running outside of possibly having to create a few extra platforms. Seriously. I understand that without the MB it can be a bastard to get past with all the random non-pattern bullshit, but when you can just make your own path it's more a case of being unlucky if the Foot Holders themselves manage to screw you over.
yes there IS an element of luck because the damn things do move randomly.
There are also a couple spots in that stage where enemy placement can make it impossible to not get hit if you don't know what's coming.Just like every stage in every Mega Man game ever?
Quote from: "Threxx"There are also a couple spots in that stage where enemy placement can make it impossible to not get hit if you don't know what's coming.Just like every stage in every Mega Man game ever?
Would have been nice if it did something that required using fire, elec and bomb in a non-combat utility role too, but oh well. Can we agree that the stage needed more playtesting and leave it at that?
Gut Blocks can be destroyed by elecbeam too you know. Not sure if you were talking about them, but that was the only "breakable wall" in that stage.
Adding gimmicks like that to every weapon is hardly a good idea.
Quote from: "Ivory"Adding gimmicks like that to every weapon is hardly a good idea.
It encourages more forced utility usage... which MM2 Wily 1 (which I believe is an even worse designed stage) had too much of.
You guys are nuts. Using weapons as problem solving tools is a great idea and fortress stages are exactly the place to put them as part of the required path. Besides, what would be the point of even making mobility items if not to get past some obstacle later?No, it's a terrible idea. A few gimmicks is one thing, but when you have to juggle around every single weapon / utility to progress through a stage, that is leaning into unfun territory. Mega Man is not the game to be doing things like this, especially classic Mega Man where your special weapons need energy to recharge. Such behavior encourages not using your special weapons ever because of required bits.
As to this specific example, why would you waste energy for elec beam, arguably the best weapon in the game, when confronted with one of the few times guts would actually do something besides just sit in your subscreen looking stupid? Guts really needs an alternate attack when no blocks are around, and the block breaking function should be completely exclusive to it to help justify the weapon's existence.
As to making minor puzzle elements with the rest: elec for frying security switchboxes that are often in places other weapons can't reach, bomb for triggering switch gates on a delay or pressure switches(or both), and fire... burning something, I guess? Lighting up a dark room works too, sure.
Super Arm was the only way to move the blocks in the beginning of the stage.Thunder Beam destroys them too.
Quote from: "Megaman94"Super Arm was the only way to move the blocks in the beginning of the stage.Thunder Beam destroys them too.
But then, this topic turned into ranting about Wily Stage 1 to Mega Man game design in general.
"Gimmick" uses for weapons only are good if they are rarely, if every forced.
What's not a good use of an effect weapon is everything concerning Crash Bombs in MM2.
On the subject of required weapon/equipment with limited energy usage, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that Rush Jet section in Doc Robot Needle Man's stage yet, in which gives you no opportunity to let you farm Weapon Energy just before it (I think? It's been a long while since I last played 3), and the Weapon Energy pickups themselves don't respawn after you die.
Or worse yet, the arbitrary Rush Coil requirement in Doc Robot Gemini Man's stage, where after defeating Flash Man, if you don't have enough energy for Rush Coil, you get stuck and have to RESET the game entirely (there's the player 2 controller cheats, but they're fixed in the ports and remakes, not to mention unavailable in the 3DS Virtual Console version).
Mega Man 6 was a lot better about this, which gave you the Rush Adaptors, which could be used an unlimited amount of times.
Quote from: "Beed28"On the subject of required weapon/equipment with limited energy usage, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that Rush Jet section in Doc Robot Needle Man's stage yet, in which gives you no opportunity to let you farm Weapon Energy just before it (I think? It's been a long while since I last played 3), and the Weapon Energy pickups themselves don't respawn after you die.
Or worse yet, the arbitrary Rush Coil requirement in Doc Robot Gemini Man's stage, where after defeating Flash Man, if you don't have enough energy for Rush Coil, you get stuck and have to RESET the game entirely (there's the player 2 controller cheats, but they're fixed in the ports and remakes, not to mention unavailable in the 3DS Virtual Console version).
Mega Man 6 was a lot better about this, which gave you the Rush Adaptors, which could be used an unlimited amount of times.
The Doc Robot stages as a whole are all designed poorly. Bad checkpoints, unfair bosses, and these cheap utility sections. Then you get the Wily Stages, which are all too EASY to be even considered real fortress stages. Just shows how rushed MM3 was in it's late stages.
That's another reason why I love MM6. The utilities don't use energy.
EDIT: I also hate the fact in Wily stage 4, they have you fight 4 robot masters (Bomb Man, Fire Man, Ice Man, and Guts Man) with no health pick ups in between bosses.
I played a hack a while back where those rematches all took place on ice floors. :twisted:
It took some save state abuse to get through it, yeah. Especially Fire Man, as his attack was a cranked up to a 3-hit kill in this mod so you couldn't just damage race him.
Heat Man's random dash pattern is predictable, if he stays in his position for a while after being shot, he will move right to where you are (or a bit further, since he sometimes gets stuck in the wall if you are walking into the wall), if he moves straight away after being shot he will stop short (which is where a lot of people get damaged because they don't anticipate him stopping early and jump on top of him). As for the flames at the start, just a small hop while moving towards him and the Atomic Fire will miss (the arc is a bit different with the Doc Robot version though).