Messages

1

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8b)

« on: July 29, 2015, 01:13:36 AM »

Glass [x1.5] < Proto [x1.333] < Light [x1.2] < Mega [x1.12] < Normal [x1.0] < Duo [x0.896] < Sturdy [x0.8] < Doc Toad [x0.728] < Toad [x0.65] < Heavy [x0.55] < Hard [x0.5]

You listed Heavy twice.
i fixed it ~korby


As far as I can tell, the Duo and Doc Toad tiers were first used by (who else) Doc Robot, and they're simply derived from combining the Mega multiplier with the Sturdy and Toad multipliers respectively.

On a side note, I know this isn't related to gameplay at all, but has anyone ever considered renaming the armor tiers? I just find it a bit silly that the tier containing 5 classes is named after Toad Man alone but the tier containing all of one RM (Guts Man) bears the generic name of "Heavy." (I'm assuming that "Doc Toad" will get a proper name if a future class uses it as a base armor value.)

2

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: April 04, 2015, 12:32:40 AM »

Actually, I have been able to get this mod to run as-is on Zandronum 2.0; you just need to load the sprite patch (the v7cbefix wad thing) in addition to the v7c wad itself.

That said, Zandronum does seem to complain about some oversized sprites (saying that it's downsizing them), so I've refrained from starting up a server on BE just to be safe.

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Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: March 20, 2015, 10:03:14 PM »

Actually, I've been thinking for a while now that Ring Man's controls are needlessly clumsy. It would make much more sense to just give him one weapon and make it easier to call the rings back early. There's even more than one way it could be arranged; you could make it so holding down the button (fire or altfire) keeps the ring out and releasing it calls it back, or you could leave it closer to what it is now and just make it so holding the button down can call the ring back as early as possible.

Instead, however, it almost feels like Ring Man's clunky control schemes (both the two-weapon system he has now and the long-range-only system he had before) are deliberately being left in as a way to counterbalance his power. To me, that seems rather silly; I'd rather just have somewhat reduced power and good controls to make full use of it, as opposed to having terrific power that can't be used to its full potential because of bad controls.



As for Drill Man, I don't feel too threatened by him in most scenarios. Sure, he can fire off a lot of Drill Bombs, but unless he can stay close to his opponent (which is hard, since he's slow), it's hard to land good hits; his projectiles are slow, and he has to aim at the ground to force them to explode. If anything, I usually just find Drill Man to be a nuisance due to his tendency to run away.

4

Projects & Creative / The Case of the Bugged Crash Drive

« on: March 08, 2015, 12:48:48 AM »

So last night, I was playing as Turbo Man for a bit, and right after I mowed down a Flash Man as I came out of a Time Bender trap, my opponent commented that the Crash Drive seemed to charge very quickly. I replied that it was random, as far as I knew; sometimes it's fast and sometimes it's normal. However, that got me wondering about why such a thing would occur, so I decided to poke around in the code to figure out just what was going on. Well, as it turns out, the Crash Drive has been bugged since version 7b (the version in which its duration got cut in half).

This may be old news to some of you, but I figured that I ought to give an explanation to those who were unaware (and a reminder to those who had forgotten please fix this).

Long explanation here:

(click to show/hide)

So, first of all, here's the code pertaining to the Crash Drive:

Code: [Select]

Altfire:
TUCA C 0 A_JumpIfInventory("CarCount",10,"StopCar")
TUCA C 0 A_JumpIf(momz==0, "SlideSlide")
TNT1 A 0 SetPlayerProperty(0,0,0)
Goto Ready+1
SlideSlide:
TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("Petrol",1,"Continue")
goto Ready+1
Continue:
TNT1 A 0 SetPlayerProperty(0,1,0)
TNT1 A 0 SetPlayerProperty(0,1,4)
TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfNoAmmo("NoAmmo")
TNT1 A 0 A_GiveInventory("TurboCar",1)
TUCA XY 2 A_PlaySoundEx("classes/drilling","classes")
TNT1 A 0 A_GiveInventory("CarCount",1)
TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("CarCount",8,"Go")
Goto Continue
Go:
TNT1 A 0A_PlaySoundEx("classes/drillout","classes")
CarMode:
TNT1 A 0 A_GiveInventory("TurboCar",1)
//TNT1 A 0 A_Recoil(-7)
//TNT1 A 0 A_ChangeVelocity(14,0,momz,CVF_RELATIVE|CVF_REPLACE)
TNT1 A 0 A_ChangeVelocity(28,0,momz,CVF_RELATIVE|CVF_REPLACE)
TNT1 A 0 A_SpawnItemEx("CarRadius",0,0,0)
TNT1 A 0 A_Ta SetPlayerProperty(0,0,4)
TNT1 A 0 keInventory("Petrol",1)
TUCA XY 1 A_WeaponReady(WRF_NOPRIMARY/WRF_NOSWITCH)
TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("Petrol",1,"CarMode")
goto StopCar
StopCar:
TNT1 A 0 A_TakeInventory("TurboCar",999)
TNT1 A 0 A_TakeInventory("CarCount",999)
TNT1 A 0 A_GiveInventory("NoCar",1)
TNT1 A 0 SetPlayerProperty(0,0,0)
TUCA A 35
TNT1 A 0 A_TakeInventory("NoCar",1)
Goto Ready+1
The lines to pay attention to are the ones that pertain to the "CarCount" item, which is used to control the length of time it takes Turbo Man to charge up before unleashing the Crash Drive. When you start the Crash Drive, Turbo Man starts gaining "CarCount" until he has 8 of the item, at which point he goes into the actual Crash Drive. Then, once he runs out of ammo, the Crash Drive ends automatically and all the "CarCount" items are taken away from him. And indeed, if you always use up all the ammo and let the Crash Drive end naturally, you'll never see any unusual behavior.

However, things get weird when you try to hit Altfire again to cancel the Crash Drive early. As you can see right at the start of the Altfire code, Turbo Man needs at least 10 "CarCount" to trigger the normal cancellation that would happen if he ran out of ammo. However, since he stops gaining "CarCount" as soon as he has the 8 needed to begin the Crash Drive, he doesn't actually have enough to trigger the normal cancellation. What happens next depends on whether he's on the ground or in the air.

If Turbo Man is on the ground, instead of stopping the Crash Drive, he'll just start another one instantly; you'll hear the Crash Drive sounds play again, but he'll just continue doing the Crash Drive as if nothing happened. Since running through the charging cycle again will give Turbo Man a bit more "CarCount," if you try to cancel the Crash Drive at this point, regardless of his position relative to the ground, it will cancel normally. (I'm guessing the reason he reaches the 10 threshold might be related to DoubleAmmo, but I'm not sure.)

If Turbo Man is in the air when you try to cancel the Crash Drive, things get really weird. Since Turbo Man doesn't have enough "CarCount" to trigger the normal cancellation, the game continues on to the next line of code, which checks his vertical momentum. Now, what this is meant to do is ensure that Turbo Man can't start a Crash Drive in midair (though he can start one if he's just bumped his head on a ceiling). However, in this case, it ends up serving as a makeshift cancellation method instead. Since Turbo Man has vertical momentum, the game says, "Hey, you can't Crash Drive in the air!" and puts him back into his normal ready state, ending the Crash Drive. This bugged cancellation differs from a normal one in two ways:

1. Turbo Man returns to his Ready state almost instantly, much sooner than he would after a normal Crash Drive cancellation.
2. The "CarCount" items are not taken away from Turbo Man.

The second of those is the reason for the insta-Crash Drive phenomenon. Since Turbo Man still has 8 "CarCount" items, the next time he attempts to start a Crash Drive, he won't need to charge it up; the game will run through the charging cycle once, see that he already has enough "CarCount" items, and immediately put him into his Crash Drive state. At this point, he will have enough "CarCount" items to cancel the Crash Drive normally whether he's on the ground or in the air.

Also of note is this little snippet of code for Turbo Man's mainfire:

Code: [Select]

Fire:
TUCA A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("CarCount",14,"StopCar")
Apparently, at some point in the past, it was possible to cancel the Crash Drive by hitting mainfire instead of altfire. However, this has been impossible at least since version 6f (the oldest version I have access to), due to it requiring more "CarCount" than Turbo Man can actually acquire.

tl;dr version here:

(click to show/hide)

If you try to cancel the Crash Drive on the ground, it doesn't work; instead, a new Crash Drive is started instantly, which is effectively the same as not canceling it, apart from playing the sound again. If you try to cancel the Crash Drive in the air, it does stop, and you ready yourself much faster than normal. After this air cancellation, the next time you attempt a Crash Drive, it will launch almost immediately; this insta-Crash Drive can be cancelled normally regardless of whether you're in the ground or in the air, and the next Crash Drive after it will have the normal charging time.

5

Projects & Creative / Re: [Game Mode] TEAM Sneaking

« on: March 03, 2015, 05:31:22 AM »

Secondly, I wonder, is there a reason you haven't incorporated altfire? The way I see it, I can see how altfire may not be the best choice because the knife is technically your "main weapon" and using weapnext/prev to switch altfires is a little weird, but it'd be something I'd consider if you haven't already. Options include stun and grenades as weapons 1 and 2 with knife on alt, or knife on main and stun/grenades as alts 1 and 2.

Better yet, couldn't we have the knife on main, the stun gun on alt, and flashbangs/smoke bombs/mines as an item? Then we wouldn't have to do any weapon switching at all. (In fact, I was actually surprised the first time I played that the mines weren't items; they seem like a natural fit for it.)

6

Projects & Creative / Re: [Game Mode] TEAM Sneaking

« on: March 02, 2015, 07:30:33 AM »

I haven't actually tried this yet, but, considering the length of the stun and the fact that you're invisible by default, I'd guess that if you reeeeeeeally wanted to, you could ensure a kill by jumping when you get close to your victim. If the poor sap also jumps, the two of you collide in midair and fall back to the ground together, giving you plenty of time to slash his face off. If he doesn't, you land on his head and now he can't jump, allowing you to aim down and plant your knife in his skull at your leisure.

Just a thought.

7

Projects & Creative / Re: [Game Mode] TEAM Sneaking

« on: March 01, 2015, 06:47:26 AM »

My initial thoughts after playing this:

- The invisible players really need some kind of mobility tool to ensure that the Light players can't just use Thunder Claw, Freeze Cracker, totem poling, or any other such means to climb out of reach and camp for all eternity. (In fact, in one round on MM2CRA, someone spawned in one of the cubbyholes and was able to sit there in complete safety for the entire round. I suppose the Wily Team could have totem poled to reach him, but we didn't know he was there until it was too late.)

- The stun guns make it a bit too easy to catch players with the insta-kill melee. You can even shoot them repeatedly as you approach to ensure that they don't get away.

- The smoke bomb and cardboard box don't seem very useful. The smoke bomb just doesn't do a whole lot compared to the other support tools, and the cardboard box is even worse. Even using it as a decoy almost never works.

- Some of the weapons available to the Light players are almost always more useful than others in the same group. For instance, you can expect the majority of the Light players to be using Thunder Beam in any given round.

- Footsteps are still made if you try to walk slowly, but you can jump around as much as you want without making them. In fact, if you only tap the jump button so you just barely get off the ground, you can even avoid making the landing sound as you inch your way around. I can't tell for certain whether or not this is intentional, but either way, I find it amusing and strange that bunny hopping is the stealthiest means of movement.

8

Projects & Creative / Re: Stardust's Workshop

« on: December 20, 2014, 12:48:14 PM »

Well, it's been a while since I last commented in this thread and the latest version of the mod has been around a while now, so I guess I'll take a moment to list some of my own thoughts. Some of this might be stuff I've already mentioned before; it's been a while, so please forgive me.

Runes:

(click to show/hide)

In most situations, Spread is the best rune by far, and it can completely turn the tables on the boss if it's paired with the right weapons. It's especially devastating against melee bosses, who have to run up close where they have no hope of dodging the triple shots and can get shotgunned for triple the damage. Personally, I would say that if secret bosses are still going to be present in this mod and are going to be buffed so that they're more challenging than normal bosses, the Spread Rune should be reserved for those bosses alone.

Rage is a very hit-or-miss rune for the offensive classes (that is, everyone other than Auto and Roll). Sure, you have the chance to layer on damage twice as fast, but you'll also burn through your ammo twice as fast in the process. It also doesn't help that bosses no longer flinch at every attack, which strips the rune of one of its main strengths. Compared to the Strength Rune, which is equivalent to flat-out cutting the boss's remaining HP in half, Rage just doesn't feel as practical.

Speaking of Strength, I believe I once mentioned the idea that it could also confer the benefit of forcing the boss to flinch at attacks, much like they used to. I still do want to see the Strength Rune become something more than just a way of cutting the boss's remaining HP in half, because as practical as that is, it's also rather boring. There's also the occasional problem of getting the Strength Rune when you're at low HP and dying almost immediately. Granted, this can also happen with Rage and Spread, but it's more noticeable with Strength because it doesn't do anything to help you survive or hit the boss more often. Causing it to add a slight hit stun property to your attacks could help make it feel more interesting, I think.

Resistance is reasonably well-balanced for the most part, but there are some bosses against whom it really doesn't help that much (coughgutsmangcough). At the very least, I'd suggest making it so all the classes have the property of getting knocked back and gaining invincibility when hit with an attack that deals at least 100 damage before Resistance, S. Armor, or any other sort of defense is factored in (which is a bit different from what Duo has now, since his invincibility can fail to trigger if he has a defensive bonus).

Drain is probably the least well-balanced of all the runes, as its usefulness varies wildly depending on the boss. Against bosses like Guts Man G, it's either completely useless or very nearly so (Duo might still have a veeeeery small chance of getting some use out of it), while against bosses like Super Macho Man, it can give you near-immortality. If you're going to continue to have this rune as a possible item for the last survivor to get, you really should at least restrict the list of bosses for whom you can receive it.

Bosses:

(click to show/hide)

I don't mind that Saxton Hale is a simple boss overall. It's fine to have one such boss, and it's fairly true to Saxton's TF2 roots. However, one thing that I do think could stand to change is his rage. Taking less damage for a while is extremely boring, even more so than his original TF2 rage (taunting the players so they would be forced to run toward him). Even the rage he used to have in this very mod, total invincibility, at least opened up some attacking possibilities by temporarily allowing him to ignore stage hazards and perhaps pick off some people who were camped out in a tough-to-reach area. I really think he should get something more interesting than mere armor.

I assume from your comments that Christian Brutal Sniper is going to be reworked a fair bit. I just really, really hope that his hud desync problem is fixed. It often makes it hard to tell how many arrows you have left or which weapon you're currently using, and it's just generally a major nuisance.

Ninja Spy isn't a terrible boss, but it really feels like there's wasted potential with his lives system. I also don't like how easy it is to deal quite a lot of damage with the initial blinding flash of his rage, which can allow him to get cheap kills or soften up opponents enough that he can kill them with one less slash. Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying that he shouldn't have that capability at all; I just think you should have to work harder to get close to your opponents if you want to deal that much damage with the flash.

This is just a minor complaint, but I don't think that Scrooge McDuck needed to get a second theme (and one that's less popular and rather unsuited for a fight). Just leaving the moon theme in should be enough.

On the subject of Morshu, his candle flames sometimes seem to have trouble lighting his oil. It seems like you have to aim down more than you'd expect, and even then, it can be rather picky. As far as his rage goes, I don't know whether or not you intend to remove the "wall bomb" technique, but if you do, I really think you should also shorten the timer on his giant bomb. I believe it currently takes 75 tics to explode; I would recommend setting it to 50 instead. I had people respond positively to that timing back when I was messing around with Saxton modding myself. (Plus it just so happens to have nice timing with his voice line: "It's yours, my friend!" *BOOM*)

Regarding Remilia Scarlet, I'd just like to add that I find it very annoying that the bullets her rage spawns tend to speed up as they bounce off walls. Quite often, the bullets will get trapped in a spot where they are forced to bounce back and forth a bunch of times and end up speeding up to an obnoxious degree, allowing them to smack right into you out of nowhere. If the bullets must retain the property of speeding up as they bounce, I'd prefer that there at least be a limit to the number of times they can bounce.

The Unknown Robot Master is not a bad boss for the most part, but all of his minions take an obnoxiously long time to kill (unless you have Ice Wall to drop on them) and can easily hit you back whenever you poke your head out to take a shot at them. I also feel like he gets his rages a little too quickly; quite often, I'll come out of hiding after his rage and start attacking, only to have him rage again seconds later and destroy me.

I have some minor complaints and some major ones about Mudkip and friends. On the minor side, I really would prefer not to have the silly mooing sound effect reminding us of the memetic origins of the boss (something I've never liked) and I'm starting to get sick of hearing "Devilkip" jokes every time it shows up when there are a certain number of players in the server. (I'd also like to see a proper Torchic skin someday, if it's at all possible.) On the major side, Treecko is still incredibly obnoxious, both for its healing capability and for its slash-your-face-off capability. It's more of a threat than Mudkip, really, and that's just dumb.

The secret boss pool still needs a lot of work to actually feel rewarding. I personally don't think Roll has any business being there in the first place, but even if you like her as a character, she's one of the most boring bosses out there. Neo DS isn't terribly interesting either once you realize that he takes about 10 times normal damage from everything (though I assume he'll get buffed to be less pathetically weak if he's still around next update). As for Gamma's Feet, I don't particularly care for their concept, but their gameplay is at least somewhat unique. Unfortunately, they also have such high HP that it takes an absolute eternity to kill them. I understand that secret bosses are supposed to be stronger, but if you still want them to be beatable (unlike Akuma), it would be nice if it didn't take 15 minutes to finish them off. Personally, I still think that Dio Flash would make a good secret boss, but I guess that's not happening now. We still could use some better secret bosses, though.

Other miscellaneous stuff:

(click to show/hide)

Please fix the map repeating exploit. It's really quite a simple thing.

I'm starting to think that having Dive Missile in the normal weapons pool may not be such a great idea. Yes, the homing can get messed up when there are other survivors nearby, but it's still a very easy way to score hits from a distance. That damage can really add up, and you get tons of ammo for the weapon too.

I don't know if you've noticed, but hardly anyone uses Duo. I used to main him, but I've since switched to Proto Man. One of the main reasons I did so was that Duo's main weapon, the Duo Fist, is not all that good. It's simply not practical at long range, unlike all the other Busters. Even the Bass Buster, which is very weak, can at least be used to pressure, poke, and prod the boss. With the Duo Fist, you're not likely to score any hits at long range, and it's still quite a slow weapon at close range. Yes you can use 70 damage charge shots, but they travel slowly and charge up even more slowly. Other classes can continue fighting once they run out of ammo, but Duo is in trouble if he ever runs out. (This led to one occasion on which a certain opponent, playing as Captain Falcon, deliberately stalled and stalled and stalled until I ran out of ammo and then came to pick me off when all I could do was punch. It was not fun.) Oh, and his invincibility after strong hits can sometimes fail to kick in too, which doesn't help him either.

9

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: SERVER READY, bweeooop | The Thread

« on: October 13, 2014, 08:59:55 AM »

So the point of not telling is...?

So less people abuse it in the interim.

10

Projects & Creative / Re: Stardust's Workshop

« on: October 06, 2014, 06:26:57 AM »

Anyway yes you click once when rage is on. I tried it and I know which is why I said Morshu sucks in the first place. Won't say anything if i didn't know

I don't know what you define as "clicking once." The giant bomb has always been triggered by holding alt fire ever since this version of Morshu was created. You can still tap alt fire to pull out regular bombs if you want to.

11

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM Funnies

« on: October 06, 2014, 06:18:43 AM »

So today, I made two amusing discoveries in Saxton Hale.

1. Throwing Morshu's giant bomb while your face is rubbing against a wall results in an instant explosion, just like with regular Hyper Bombs. Cue "what just happened" reaction from the victims.

2. Gamma's Feet don't handle Bubble Man's stage well. I was being chased by one and I happened to go through that one spot in the stage where there's a wall with spikes overlooking a drop to a lower level in a long hallway. I dropped down and kept running, and suddenly, the foot wasn't behind me any more. Apparently, they can't fit under those spikes on the wall overhead--not that it stopped the same foot from coming after me there again. It hit the spikes again and ended up telefragging the other foot upon respawning. It died after running into the spikes a third time.

12

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: September 17, 2014, 06:42:31 AM »

Well, I thought I heard something about "no more direct hits," but I don't know if that's accurate. Personally, I thought the bombs were hard enough to score direct hits with as they were, since their hitbox is much smaller than that of a Super Arm rock.

In the meantime, I suppose you're probably already aware of this, but the V4A update to the core changed some weapons, which has resulted in some significant power creep for certain classes. Grenade Man is the one everyone's been complaining about the most, but I've noticed that Tomahawk Man got a stealth buff as well--one that he really didn't need. His tomahawks have a much bigger hitbox now, and, combined with their speed, power, and rate of fire, it makes Tomahawk Man downright scary to fight.

13

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: September 16, 2014, 10:13:15 PM »

Sorry if this seems random, but I heard a rumor that Bomb Man is getting nerfed somehow, and I just wondered if there was any truth to it. Granted, I'm probably the only person who would care, since hardly anyone else plays Bomb Man, but it always felt to me like his low rate of fire counterbalanced his power, and my opponents never really seemed to complain about him.

14

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: September 15, 2014, 05:25:24 AM »

So I just updated the wikia page of CBM with the current class information, or at least with as much as I could remember. Just so you don't say I don't do a damn thing.

EDIT: Whoever added speed, armor and jump information to each class up to MM5 before I added the rest. thank you. And also, weakness calculation changed, so the multiplier values in there were not the same as the current ones, and the way weakness damage calculation is handled now makes looking for these multiplers a bit harder, so I just removed the multipliers and just listed the weapons each class is weak to in no particular order.

Um, yeah, that was me, actually. I had intended to add the stats for all the classes available at the time, but I got interrupted and forgot to finish the job. Whoops.  Thanks for finishing it.

Anyway, I went back and tried to update a few descriptions and such to the best of my knowledge, checking the files in Slade for reference. Star Man and Cloud Man do still have low (and very low, respectively) personal gravity, right? I could have sworn I put something about that in Star Man's stats before.

15

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v7cbefix)

« on: September 03, 2014, 08:23:50 AM »

If I could request something, could Topman get some sort of movement nerf? He can move as fast, if not faster, than quickman, with a top shotgun that does 15 damage, is spammable and a topspin that tends to rape things. A movement nerf would be enough, because his low armor doesn't really compensate for how much stuff he can dodge with his speed alone, not to mention his 'top dash' which lets him cover ground even faster than he already does.

I'd rather see some sort of nerf to the top throw. Top Man is supposed to rely on melee to really dish out damage--which, I'm guessing, is why he is not one but two tiers above Quick Man and Oil Man in armor--but it is very easy to end up relying on the low-risk top throw instead. It has decent power behind it, it doesn't leave Top Man vulnerable, and the spread makes it easy to hit things with it. It all adds up to make Top Man more of a threat at range than he really should be, and because he's so fast, he can easily keep his distance if he wants to.