Messages

181

Anything Goes / Re: Red Sings Songs For You

« on: July 25, 2015, 05:02:13 AM »

sing

JIBUN WO

that is all

182

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - What maps do you feel need work? Pt. II

« on: July 25, 2015, 12:11:49 AM »

It's because the gimmicks make the map more interesting and make it feel more like the original stage that it's trying to represent. That makes the maps more enjoyable as a result.

The key thing is to make sure that the gimmicks don't interfere with the gameplay.

tl;dr at the bottom

The first statement is not necessarily true. We are playing an FPS, not a singleplayer platformer. Players enjoy when their flow of gameplay is consistent and not interrupted by something foreign (hence the hate for maps suchs as MM5GYR and MM5WAV). Some minor gimmicks such as disappearing blocks, moving platforms, teleporters, jump pads, etc are completely acceptable, easy to understand, and easy to use in combat. However, maps with larger, more gamechanging gimmicks are hated by the playerbase and are often banned from tournaments due to their un-fun nature. This hate is often due to the maps not being designed well (ie designing the map around the gimmick rather than the other way around). This is not to say that gamechanging gimmicks are bad. MM8FRO is a great example of a map that uses a seemingly idiotic FPS gimmick very well. The snowboards do not interrupt gameplay, are used in short spurts, and are not necessary to fully enjoy the map. MM8FRO is how maps with gamechanging gimmicks SHOULD be.

This brings me to the second statement.

Unfortunately, not every map with a huge gimmick is MM8FRO. Time and time again I see maps with liberally implemented gimmicks released and praised for their creativity, then mapvoted off of because they are zero fun to play on. Shit like MMBMAG, MM5GYR, MM4BRI are the things I'm talking about. Vanilla mappers are too overzealous with their map gimmicks, and they end up creating unplayable trash heaps because the gimmicks interfere with gameplay, not aid it.

This creates distrust between the devs and the players, where the players do not trust the devs to do a good job on their maps because they screwed up so often in the past -- which is exactly what's happening now. I do not hate gimmicks, but I do not trust 8bdm vanilla mappers to do a good job using gimmicks because of how bad they usually are.


tl;dr Gimmicks are not innately bad, but must be implemented properly. MM8BDM vanilla mappers have proven they are consistently bad at implementing gimmicks, therefore I am 100% against new ones as of now.

183

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - What maps do you feel need work? Pt. II

« on: July 24, 2015, 10:42:03 PM »

Ya know, the things that bother me the most about Drill and Spark is that they don't really have anything unique about them aside from their layouts.   I think both of them would be more interesting with gimmicks from their respective stages.  I was thinking the materializing floors from Drill and the rising platforms from Spark offhand.

You are literally fucking killing me. Just because you can't appreciate something doesn't mean you need to ham it up like every other MMB/MM8 map with intrusive, useless gimmicks people tend to dislike.

Like, this is why 8bdm mapping has fallen off the last few years. The focus is no longer on making maps that play well, but now on how many stupid gimmicks you can shove into the map to assert the fact that this is an FPS based on a platformer.

184

MM8BDM Discussion / You want fuckhuge maps? Play a different game.

« on: July 24, 2015, 06:12:22 AM »

Daily reminder that compact maps != boring maps. There's nothing wrong with Spark or Drill. Don't add unnecessary enemies to the background to distract players (It's a huge problem on MM2BUB btw)

185

Anything Goes / Re: General Offtopic Discussion

« on: July 23, 2015, 07:45:43 PM »

All of the BN games are worth playing except for four

what about chip challenge ( ?° ?? ?°)

also if you're going to play 6, play Gregar over Falzar.

186

Anything Goes / Re: General Offtopic Discussion

« on: July 23, 2015, 04:17:03 PM »

Play it/10

Team Colonel, that is. Protoman's a pussy bitch.

187

Events / Re: YD Classes V8A Team Hoyp Tournament - Signups Open

« on: July 23, 2015, 01:47:41 AM »

If you want this shit to be super authentic yall nyugguhs better be comin' up with team names

188

Events / Re: YD Classes V8A Team Hoyp Tournament

« on: July 21, 2015, 08:05:56 AM »

That's such a weird rule. It's the easiest thing to be like "Oh hey, Bob mains Cutman (idunno) and he's really good at him. Now he can't play as him at all because everyone will ban him during each match!"
Yay!
Normally I'd think those bans would be used for the stupid shit (Flash Man) but those are just getting permabanned anyway (Which is a good idea by the way) so it just makes the "can't use your mains use secondaries you're worse with scrub" really weird.

This is a pretty normal way to think at first. Give it a little more thought and you've got a mental game of chess going on.

"Bob is a Cutman main, but he's also really good with Crash and Yamato. Do we completely ban Bob's mains out and make him useless, or do we ban Joe's Skull and DM3 so we don't get sniped to death? Do we have the means of dealing with huge range? Should we ban out Bob and pick melee classes like Slash or Shadow to kill Joe, or will that leave us open to anti-melee? Will Joe even consider playing ranged classes?"

See where I'm going with that? There's more than just Bob the Cutman main. Every team that's going into this has multiple strategies in mind. It's up to you to prioritize which strategies to ban out, and which you can let through if you know how to play against them.

Banning some classes who can kill the fun of TLMS, yeah, but banning 4 CLASSES who can be played by people, so, it's 8 classes??? It's bad. :/
People could be allowed to play with their favorites classes, banning them is just cheap. Just sayin'

There is nothing "cheap" about that. Teams need to come with multiple strategies and contingencies in order to compete. Showing off your one-trick-pony Elecman skills isn't the point of the tournament. The whole idea is to work together as a team combining individual skill, coordination, and pick/ban mindgames in order to win. If that means not being able to use your favorite classes 24/7, so be it. If you want to win as Elecman all day, play duel.

189

Events / Re: YD Classes V8A Team Hoyp Tournament

« on: July 21, 2015, 03:53:26 AM »

(click to show/hide)

Wood is admittedly a annoyance, and the Leaf Rain stack has been a problem for a while. However, the weapon loses effectiveness based on the map and number of players. It's slow speed and clunky aiming aren't very useful when attempting to hit a minimal amount of targets, and if the map is large and open, it's mainly reduced to a path-blocker at most. The fact that you'd ultimately be using one of your teammates in order to set up Leaf Rains instead of using them in actual combat situations seems to at least offset any advantages you get from using it.

You are heavily underestimating the effectiveness of long-term invulnerability and teammate-induced leaf rain.

Not even considering the leaf rain, invulnerability on a whim is extremely powerful for repositioning or stalling until teammates can arrive, especially considering how much invuln time Wood has.

Woodman's leaf rain currently takes 30 damage to activate. The maximum RoF on leaf rain is achievable by 99% of the roster, and helps to eliminate any range deficiencies (or health deficiencies) teammates may have that hinder their effectiveness by allowing them to provide firepower through Woodman until they must use their own attacks to fight (extremely good example of this is Iceman or Timeman, who have insane synergy with Wood.).

While not being shot at by his teammates, Woodman provides consistent pressure on any enemies simply by existing. The fact that he can bodyblock and provide damage with no effort resulting in zero health loss is extremely concerning. Ignoring Wood is no good either. Wood can easily force you to move into unfavorable territory in order to not shoot at him due to shield pressure and the possibility of being chunked by body slam. Stray bullets also make up a large amount of Wood's skirmishing power, which are mostly unavoidable -- you will not hit every shot. Also, even with extremely careful aim and no stray leaf rain, Wood can output damage through shield throws or bodyslams.

Gyro Man mainly won classes tournaments in the past because he was good at running away, along with his really hard-hitting Gyro Attacks. The new classes build somewhat nullifies this ability to escape due to his decreasing ammo when firing in the air makes Gyro less of a hit and run option, while making him considerably more useful in actual combat since now he can shoot while he flys. Considering Gyro's mainfire damage was halved in this build, I think he's a lot more tame than his previous incarnations that were so powerful.
You underestimate the effectiveness of Gyro's mainfire + toggleable flight. Before, Gyro would be forced to ground himself to deal consistent damage, but due to the recent change, he no longer needs to leave himself open if he wishes to do his thing. While his dps suffered around a 30% loss (30 damage every 27 tics > 15 damage every 19 tics), his versatility was boosted by a huge amount, leading to even more situations where Gyro is the sole class left chipping away at enemies (and winning in most scenarios)  

Search Man, much like Wood Man, mainly revolves around the map in order to gauge his effectiveness (at least with the Homing Sniper in question). It is very easy for him to control a map with long, open spaces. Despite this, he usually has to take himself away from most combat situations and struggles when opponents come up close, due to his lower armor. He's a pretty high risk class if anything, because if he can't get a good aim on opponents, he's more of a liability than a real offensive weapon.

Incorrect. While Search is gamebreaking in open maps due to his crosshair shots being 99% unavoidable, he thrives even in enclosed maps. His bouncing frisbees deal an astonishing 24 damage at no ammo cost or RoF deficiency. His job of locking on to people becomes even easier as the crosshair has a small travel time at a distance (the shots themselves also become unavoidable at medium range). His bushes also act as a fantastic juking tool due to there being a ~2 second gap between bush placements.

Barring any future nerfs, Searchman is more dangerous to fight up close then he is to fight at a distance, which is saying a lot considering how deadly he is at range.
I'm confused as to how Roll and Quint didn't appear on the poll. Roll's ability to rush down any class and hit them with her three hit kill juggling weapon which gives her ammo for a healing item for her or her allies is pretty ridiculous, and the bucket with its stunning to make it even harder to escape should only seal the deal.
Regarding Roll, I have no idea what you're talking about. Despite numerous buffs, Roll is still not worth playing. With 75 effective hp, a predictable playstyle, loud dashing, unreliable sources of damage, and a tiny niche being high risk low reward team healing, there is almost no reason to play Roll. Also, "rush down any class"? Are you aware that this patch introduced an insane amount of anti-melee tools?

Regarding Quint, his effectiveness shines in public TDM servers. Being a largely uncoordinated environment, Quint can roflstomp large servers with no issue. Seeing as this tournament is a small, teamwork oriented environment with voice chat being extremely prevalent, Quint will most likely see very little success.

190

Events / Re: YD Classes V8A Team Hoyp Tournament

« on: July 20, 2015, 10:08:32 PM »

I know this is most likely a stupid question, but would ones like Pirate and Mega Water be banned? Their shields are kinda powerful considering they stop anything short of AOE debuffs like Time Slow, and both Mega Water and Pirateman sport considerably high damage output, as well as pirateman having armor on his own.

Bringing another RM into the question, would dynamo be allowed, considering his ability to heal himself as well as others?

Personally, I'm not a fan of situational heals as big as MWS and Pirate have, but ultimately it's up to the playerbase.

Dynamo is in question due to how Toad-like he is, not due to his heal. Heals are okay, but heals to the caliber of Magic's screw with the flow of gameplay.

191

Events / Re: YD Classes V8A Team Hoyp Tournament

« on: July 19, 2015, 05:27:51 AM »

Send your .ogg and .mp3 music files to represent you and/or your team ala pro wrestling to Bikdark (either here or saix10 on skype) for compilation.

ALTERNATIVELY for the youtube->mp3 converter-impaired, send me youtube links and I'll be happy to convert them myself and throw them in the pack.

192

Anything Goes / Re: General Offtopic Discussion

« on: July 17, 2015, 11:17:15 PM »

...You've been using the internet for how long now?

193

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 Public Thread - MM9 Expansion

« on: July 15, 2015, 08:37:37 PM »

Dude cmon just put the photos already :/

Acting entitled won't get you anywhere bruh

194

Projects & Creative / Re: Class based modification (v8a)

« on: July 15, 2015, 06:39:01 AM »

If you think Quint is fine and dandy, you need a reality check.

A predictable (lol don't make me laugh) jump arc doesn't justify effortless and unintuitive gameplay.

195

MM8BDM Discussion / Re: MM8BDM v5 - What maps do you feel need work? Pt. II

« on: July 12, 2015, 09:02:08 PM »

Sounds like a good time to remind people that the old MM1FIR was unjustly removed without any prior notice or community input before the fact.

Btw remove the ugly railings on MM2HEA and replace them with the old style thx